Open Game Thread #64: Bulls vs Utah Jazz
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 6:18 PM CDT
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PrintThabo's back tonight, although he'll surely be in 'earn your way' mode. Which makes sense, even if it hasn't made sense in other cases.
The Jazz are oddly bad (14-19) on the road, so there's hope. Despite their Sloan-ness, they are only average defensively, although because of their Sloan-ness, they lead the league in fouls. Luckily the Bulls can handle a high-octane offense, and on that end themselves they're full of strong-willed-and-bodied slashers and finishers. Uh...
My handy Bulls.com newsletter lists Kirilenko as day-to-day and the Jazz starting 3 guards in Deron Williams, C.J. Miles, and Thabo-draft-contemporary Ronnie Brewer. Resist the temptation Boylan.
Below is where you and I whine about how Boylan thinks that the Gooden-Noc (nickamed "it's time") frontcourt is swell because it 'matches up' with Boozer and Okur. Something about spacing.
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I wish mybulls
I bet Thabo sees
Matt, are you around?
uh...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
YGM
I'll be off the grid in about five minutes...
Kirk is in prime trouble
After that I expect Boylan to play Hughes at the point for 23 straight minutes.
by danger mouse on Mar 11, 2008 6:41 PM CDT reply actions
Wassup w/ no hd for the last few home games?
by DannyRange on Mar 11, 2008 6:54 PM CDT reply actions
I was driving home from work
Oh Crap
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 11, 2008 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
If it's a team effort
"it's time" matches up
i hate boylan
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions
hughes looks good
by Mike C on Mar 11, 2008 7:56 PM CDT reply actions
this lineup looks good together
by Mike C on Mar 11, 2008 7:59 PM CDT reply actions
Yay
"ill bet every coach in the league
personally, ill take lebron
by Mike C on Mar 11, 2008 8:04 PM CDT reply actions
Just got in and turned the game on -
Now
i still get suprised by
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Why can't
Did Gooden really
by TheMattador on Mar 11, 2008 8:23 PM CDT reply actions
LIES!
Doesn't make it right.
TT is stealing his minutes
Yeah, having the two best rebounders...
For once I will give credit to Boylan...
by GoldenThreePeat on Mar 11, 2008 8:33 PM CDT reply actions
Nice 3
Thabo was
Tyrus is playing very well and I hope he gets more minutes in the 2nd half. Less Gooden would be good too.
Enough for the new people here
Holy shit, Gooden
did you notice okur's stats tonight?
by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
wow
This team drive me crazy
But most nights when they just suck, I just want them to get the best draft pick possible.
I have no idea how to feel about any of these games!
Fun game thus far
by Freethefro on Mar 11, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions
Boylan has a keen ability
And for some reason, he never plays the Gooden-Noce frontcourt until the end of the game. I don't get it. I just don't get it.
by danger mouse on Mar 11, 2008 9:31 PM CDT reply actions
Korver's like
aw man
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
something is bound to click
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't hate the man...
Let him have his moment now, because I'm sure he'll be lambasted on here tomorrow.
by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 11, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It's weird when he has such a hideous
But yeah, love the kid's emotion, and how hard he is still playing when he hadn't had a point up to those free throws.
i'll give it to you el amin
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions
He has his moments...
by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 11, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I figured it out
Not only will he be an expiring contract but he'll have padded stats.
GENIUS!
except paxson is the only gm
by ihatenoce on Mar 11, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
you mean like Ferry was
by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
The weird part is
Oh, jeez. There I go again.
by Freethefro on Mar 11, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions
Exactly what I'm thinking
I don't think anybody played poorly tonight
agreed, that was a great team win
Also, Boylan went with "it's time" frontcourt in the 4th quarter. Luckily the cushion wasn't too damaged (-3 in 3.5 minutes) but you can tell how awful the defense gets when they're together. If Noc doesn't pick up his 5th foul I'm not sure Boylan doesn't ride that lineup to the end.
I still think Gooden plays too much, but he's now the best finisher on the team, much better in that regard than the departed old men. There was a play where a pass was fumbled in the paint and Gooden picked it up went up strong and dunked. Wallace would've pumped faked 6 times and passed it out to Hinrich for a 20-footer.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Good(en) win.
Nice to see Thabo back in action.
I always love to watch Noah.
Great to see Tyrus get 20 minutes.
If we beat Philly on Friday, we may very well be eight seed come Saturday morning.
The Bulls Suck!!!
How dare they win this game? I mean, here i am, minding my own business and labeling this season as a loss, the players as simple role players, the coaching staff idiots, and bam just like theyve done the whole season, the moment i think that they win, Impressively i might add. Oh the sorrow!! I mean why keep throwing spurts of potential at me, why make me feel that oh so horrid feeling named hope. Either go on a winning streak, or just lay down and die. Either play hard all season long, or just lose shamelessly.
Stats dont work with this team, whats the mean for the players? What are they supposed to return too? Does this team suck, or are they great. If they are in between then who is good on this team, and who is a waste of time. Everything changes day to day, week to week, game to game. Today gooden is an all star, tomaro well be regretting getting him and his beared. Today BG is the best shooter on this team, tomaro he will be 2 of 9. Today hinrich cant commit a T.O. Tomaro he will have 7.
Losing is losing, and winning is winning, but in the end you know where a team is at, what is its limits. Here we have teh bulls, can anyone truly figure this team out?
I feel ya on that
I kind of feel the same as you do as far as "Who exactly is this team?" Even in wins, they're almost maddening to watch. It's like nothing I've ever experienced in my entire life of watching sports.
My gut feeling is BG and Du (obviously)are gone this Summer, and they'll be going forward with Hinrich, Hughes, and Thabo as the guards. That'd actually be fine by me. I'm not huge on Larry, but let's be honest, they're not going to be able to move him, so hopefully his minutes are limited when he's tossing bricks.
Good to see TT get some minutes tonight, but when Gooden is playing badly and TT is still on the bench, I can't help but want to punch holes in my wall.
It's like this team needs a psychologist almost as much as they need a new coach (wait, that's not possible). Something's just wrong. I wish for all of us that we could skip to the off-season so we can stop wasting time on following this team.
Enough of my rant, I'll probably never have a post even 1/3 of this length ever again, haha.
Velcome
I hope we can sign-and-trade Gordon for something decent, maybe Maggette is out there, or a center, since you sort-of need one of those, and Noah doesn't seem big and strong enough. Where's Dalibor Bagaric when we really need him?
Do the Bulls suck?
Start playing for next year please and identify who our core talent is and who our coach should be to maximize that talent.
If TT is not a part of it, figure out a way to maximize his short term value and trade hime, if he is a part of it play him with the other players who fit with where the Bulls are going.
by bullschwaah on Mar 12, 2008 8:11 AM CDT reply actions
My bad
by bullschwaah on Mar 12, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions
I really love
The game changed in the first quarter when Thabo entered the game. I just love what he brings to the game. I hope he earns his starting spot back and sends Hughes back to the bench. I thought everyone really played well. There were some great passes last night and the defense was outstanding. Please, please, please play like that from now on.
One other thing I noticed was when Kirk sat out he would move on the bench and sit next to Mike Wilhelm. I saw them talking and wonder if he is working with Kirk on some things. Just curious as I've never seen Kirk to that before.
Very young and fairly talented
It appears it is game strategy and execution
Of course, you can't even exploit the transition without solid defense. Defense is crucial, but the scouting on the Jazz is wear them out after getting defensive stops so they are too tired to effectively employ their offensive transition. Wearing them out will force them to fall in love with the half court set. The more half court sets they run the greater the rate of turnovers.
This game was closer than it should have been if more of the strategy been employed. You cannot leave Okur and cheat all the way into the paint. This is certain doom. Make him hurt you on the block, but he can dominate an entire quarter if you just leave him all alone around the arc.
In the Boston and Detroit games the officials were awfully whistle happy disrupting the early substitution patterns thus affecting how the planned strategy was employed. I bitched about this in both game threads because it really does impact the game. If players are fouling, call it. But you have to call it on both ends, not one half for one team and one half for the other.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
The unselfish play
When the ball never touches the floor in the break amazing things happen.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
And you're right about Thabo
Thabo was a +17 in only 13.5 minutes.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions
In terms of filling
What, then, do we get from Hughes? I'd say, pretty much nothing. He's nowhere near the defender Thabo is...and he's nowhere near the offensive play Ben Gordon is. For my money, it's been eye-opening to see how the players the Bulls already had (BG and Thabo) measure up against another, supposedly better than league average guy...in the same line-ups, playing the same positions.
Based on what I've been seeing, I am not at all in the camp that expects the Bulls to shop Gordon this summer. He's a damn good shooter, and (as I think Sam Smith said yesterday) there aren't many guys who can get you 20 points a game as easily as Gordon can.
it'll be interesting to see
(and by 'interesting' I mean 'frustrating')
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope not a minute longer
Great game for Thabo
Duhon should be bought out. I never want to see him play another minute for the Bulls.
he was on the inactive list last night
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 12, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Dont know where you live
Who were the people who were in love with hughes on this site?? Albeit, he is better money spent then wallace, but he isnt that good. I would seriously move him to 6th man spot. Thabo played better then ever, and man was he confident and energetic. The man was living up to the hype placed on him a year ago. I really dont want ben gordon to leave next semester, and i really dont see it happening so quickly. I expect a better coach to step into the picture next season, and he will decide which guards are worth keeping. Larry Hughes though is a slasher/chucker best saved for coming off the bench.
by piccolomair on Mar 12, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd love the backcourt to stay the same.
Gordon might not be the answer, but Hughes is less so.
I go back and forth on Gordon
Exactly what's been said all along.
Retaining assets
Obviously for this purpose Duhon is not considered an asset.
It's not 100% clear
Given the small number of teams that'll be under the cap and their lackluster play, however, I think there's a fair shot the Bulls can.
I'd certainly rather be paying Gordon to be the first guy off the bench than Nocioni.
So whats our cap number
by haze on Mar 12, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Not the cap
So if we re-sign them for that amount, we'll be close to $0 under the luxury tax threshold and something on the order of $11M over the actual salary cap. The salary cap is likely to be about $59M and the luxury tax is likely to kick in at about $70M. Here's a breakdown of what we've got going.
1. We're about $10.9M under the estimated luxury tax threshold when you include Deng and Gordon's QOs (which are another $10.8M).
Add those two numbers together and we've got about $21.7 before we hit the tax.
2. We'll also have to include our draft pick, which could be anywhere from $1-2M.
So conservatively, figure just under $20M to work with.
3. There's also the possibility of trading away salary (hint: Smell ya later Andres).
Will Deng and Gordon
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 12, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
In a tribune article
by piccolomair on Mar 12, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I was surprised to see Gordon on Deron Williams
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, yea, of course
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
i have to agree
by NormVanBeer on Mar 12, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It really was everytime
by bullshooter on Mar 12, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
sometimes i wonder
by NormVanBeer on Mar 12, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
i knew you would come around, observer!
i was also surprised to see bg guarding deron, and maybe even more surprised that bg did a halfway descent job.
the surprise of the night for me was thabo. thabo time was right back where he left off before his injury, and i find that very promising. i think the only good thing to have happened since boylan took over has been thabo's improvement.
by Conor on Mar 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You guys really help
After reading all the stories around the trade deadline about what little interest there was, at least publicly, in Ben Gordon I started to consider what we need to do to make him better and make him part of our permanent squad to make a run at a title.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
i agree
the thing i have always loved about bg is that he is a winner. won state title in new york, won at uconn, so, hopefully he can win one w the bulls
unrelated question, but i am interested in who you want as the head coach, observer?
by Conor on Mar 12, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
But those TOs were really fouls, don't you know...
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695260971,00.html
Did you notice
Yeah, Kirk may be making progress
And while on the subject--for once I'd like to see Boylan stand up for his players when they're getting reamed by the officials. Get yourself kicked out of the game!! At least his players might feel like he's behind them.
Some of the commentary
Not that I blame the cameramen. Their thoughts are likely - Who's the Boylan guy? Why should I zoom on him?
He's been doing particularly well with the young
I was going to post on your other one about Sam thinking BG and Kirk are both gone next season - I emailed him during one of the games Boylan had Kirk glued to the bench to ask if he knew whether there was something else going on other than the just foul trouble, and Sam wrote back to the effect that he didn't know, but he didn't like it. He's sent back some other really positive Kirk stuff too when I've asked questions, and it hasn't ever seemed like he thinks Kirk should be traded.
Anyway, I always like it when Kirk has a good game and the team gets a win, so last night was a fun one.
I have noticed
In last weeks "Ask Sam" column he really defended Kirk and it was nice to see. I really hope he's wrong on Kirk not being here next season.
Sam has been
there might be something to that
Kirk and Tyrus were flowing last night
When Kirk claps his hands and calls for the ball after a rebound, Tyrus needs to get him the ball right away. They have to get court time together so it does mean Kirk needs to avoid fouling and Tyrus needs to play smart and not overextend himself.
Kirk and Tyrus are two keys to our best 5 man unit.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Observer, are you trying to make it out like
Ben needs to be accepted for who he his--a damn good shooter. There's a place on this team for that.
I think BG was on Williams
1) Having Gordon guard Williams, allowed gordon to race to the offense end quickly in transition, allowing him to find better shots or easy penetrations.
2)Having Gordon on Williams allowed hinrich to guard Korver who is a deadly shooter
3)Having Gordon on Williams allowed the bulls to better cover perimeter shots by okur or by korver due to having better perimeter defenders (hinrich, thabo, hughes, deng, and to an extent noch) when Williams would penetrate and kick
- Having gordon guard williams allowed gordon to make mistakes, due to having gooden and noah in the paint ready to deny passes and clog lanes.
- Having Gordon guard Williams allowed the bulls to collapse in the lane and still have quick guys like hinrich gordon (who once the defense closes in on Williams can leave williams and pick up someone else) etc to manage the mess.
- Having Gordon on Williams makes up for the difference in strength between williams and Hinrich. Also Williams is a bit bigger then gordon, and gordon is much stronger than kirk. Not only would it be hard for williams to push gordon around, if he did, gordon could flop or what not and it would seem more like a foul. Hinrich Guarding Williams would no doubt take a toll on hinrich, and he would pick up fouls alot faster.
by piccolomair on Mar 12, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
No i dont know why
by piccolomair on Mar 12, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the thinking was
He was gooden againt Boozer
I think Gooden was great last night. He would have had 30 if he finished some of his earlier open attempts near the rim. He didn't seem to have the handle on a couple of passes that should have been easy dunks.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
It is night and day
Look at Steve Nash. His defense is to let his man go around him so he always stays at or above the free throw line. This is so Nash can get the inbounds pass and already be ahead of at least two opponents for a 2 on 2, 3 on 3, or 3 on 2 or fewer fastbreak.
Nash is one of a few players that gives up defense in order to create transition of inbounds plays following buckets.
by NBA Observer on Mar 12, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Thabo Gets It
He understands his role.
He doesn't try to do too much.
He is easily the brightest light in this season of darkness.
by Orlando Woolridge on Mar 12, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I got to go to the game.
On a negative note Hinrich, really needs to work on his passes in transition. He missed a couple for Tyrus and he nearly flubbed that bullet-pass/alley-oop to Gooden.
Overall, I can definitely say that having Gooden and Hughes is better than Wallace and Smith; Hughes can be played when he is successful and sat when he is not; while Gooden is an actual bonafide good player, despite the issues with him taking minutes from Tyrus, he is a good rebounder and a good passer with solid moves in the post.
by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Mar 12, 2008 1:31 PM CDT reply actions
I don't really
Give me a break...
Most of the people on this blog are so oobsessed with Tyrus Thomas and his highlight reel potential (emphasis on the word potential) that they can't see we have an actual developing frontline defensive/offensive player in Gooden too.
Tyrus will be here next year no matter what, it's in his freaking contract (unless we trade him), but as I've been saying all along we don't really know what we have in Gooden (in the Bulls system) and his contract will expire first... THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY HIM!
Get over it.
by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 12, 2008 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
What else is there to care
Thomas is not my favorite player, but in a season like we've had all you can do is wonder about the next year and he could be a big part of the years to come. He is ours to develop and it is idiotic to not play him as much as possible since the season is a bust. Gooden will either be here or he won't be next year, but he isn't going to suddenly change his game. He can sit a while. The only thing that is even mildy entertaining these days are Tyrus, Thabo, and Noah. If the organization has any interest in succeeding in the following years they will invest in these guys. It is either that or they've wasted the last few drafts, kept a bunch of average guys who can't get it done, and didn't make a trade for a superstar. So you can pretty much kiss the last five years goodbye along with the following five.
But of course some will be happy with winning a few games here or there at the end of the season with Gooden playing extended minutes. For me the season is done so there is no point in doing that.
Perhaps that's true...
But if you can't see that players play differently in different systems then I just don't know what to tell you.
Gooden (and every other player that plays with a superstar like LeBron) will have to adjust their game when they change teams.
He could absolutely become more than he is at 27, in fact he should be enetring his prime in the next two years. If the Bulls want to take a chance and just let his contract expire at the end of the season then fine, but they at least should find out what kind of player they are losing... Which is exactly what Boylan and Paxson are doing.
by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 12, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed on the Hughes thing
A great game to attend...
I was surprised that Gooden played so much (43 min); it seemed like almost the entire 2nd half. But he had the hot hand and was playing very well. I don't like that at the expense of Tyrus's mintues, but I'll take the win.
FWIW, I thought Boylan did a good job last night. He seemed to have a feel for the game last night and the rotations seemed to work well.
Of course, when the players get TOs and make shots, you're bound to look good. Let's see if there is any consistency to the next game.
I've said it before...
by El Toro de Goro on Mar 12, 2008 2:22 PM CDT reply actions
Guards
Big: Hughes, Thabo. Both can defend, have decent handle, and Thabo's shooting is getting better. Both have about the best potential for getting to the free throw line and easy baskets.
A rotation of Thabo, Hughes and Hinrich is good. Hughes can score some, defend a little, and the other two can really defend.
This hypothesis is based on two things:
- You can't pay 35 million/year for your guards. You just can't. We can't resign Gordon and keep Hughes and Hinrich. Meaning keeping BG makes a big guard go. Hello Mini-ball(Three guards making 9+ Million all have to play)!
- Mini ball 3-guard lineups suck. But playing Thabo or Hughes at the 3 in spots is possible, and might be good against small backcourts. Defense would be passable on all positions, and Deng could get some rest(especially since he's been a little prone to the gimp bug lately).
An expiring contract might even be good in return. I just don't think that we can pay all of them, unless BG or Hughes can play full-time point, and I don't think that is in Paxson's plans.
Anyway, Thabo is great, and I'm excited that he is playing well and back from injury.
This sucks
"Thabo Sefolosha, limping noticeably in the postgame locker room Tuesday, skipped practice Wednesday. Boylan called the guard's sore groin "a concern.""
Who wants to start the
This is a playoff race, after all!
allow me to suggest
by Freethefro on Mar 13, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions
lineup
by hughes sucks on Mar 13, 2008 5:49 PM CDT reply actions
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