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"I'm in control"

Jim Boylan gives his best Alexander Haig impression to KC Johnson, who not only got Paxson to say Boylan's "done a good job", but one-upped him with his own opinion that it's been, in fact, a "very very good job".

And while luke-warmingly endorsing his uncontrolled puppet, Pax also managed to hand out yet another fine as a result of the team's latest bout with 'unprofessionalism'.

The organizational message is starting to get re-sent that it's 'character' that wins, and the lack of it has caused this derailment of a season. That may be partly the case, but it's an especially egregious failure in light of the preaching about how they've picked (and perhaps held on to) players based on this nebulous trait, which has turned out to merely mean not getting arrested.

Because the important, actual team-building aspect of these character guys is lacking: they've quit on two coaches, there's no leadership except when it's time to crap on a younger player, and missed practices and shootarounds abound.

But the answer isn't to bring in yet more guys with the 'character' label, it's to realize that it's a low priority. This team once 'bought in' because they were winning. If they win again, it'll bring the character, not vice versa. Get better players, and realize that this is the NBA and few players are perfectly agenda-less. Not that there aren't a few team-killing anti-character players out there as well, but I'd avoid Adrian Griffin just as much as Zach Randolph.

Meanwhile...in the lamest playoff push in history, the Bulls gain ground by simply not playing, as the Sixers, Nets, and Hawks all lost.

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I don't know if you can say they quit
on two coaches, as much as they've quit on Scott Skiles twice.  Duhon said right after Skiles got fired/quit that Boylan was exactly like Skiles.  Why Paxson would replace a coach the team is not responding to with his protege is beyond my reasoning?  I guess he thought they needed a different voice yelling at them, benching all the young guys and making weird substitutions.  He was wrong.

by danger mouse on Mar 11, 2008 12:26 AM CDT   0 recs

Well said
and a hilarious p.s.  I still like the emphasis on character, but don't think it's been reciprocal, and certainly don't like the myopic extremism it's been carried to.  I will never understand the whole TyC deal and subsequent launching of JR.  He is exactly what the Bulls need at times, and I'll be damned if I can figure out how JR doesn't even get a look, but Hughes steps in to starter's minutes.
   Deng and Gordon are entitled to the minutes needed to max their value, whether it's for us or the free market.  Noah and TT have to succeed to avert another rebuilding project.  Kirk, Duh and Noc had well defined roles.  How naive can the staff be to think that putting Hughes and Gooden anywhere higher than 8th and 9th in the rotation until they earn better would send anything but hostile signals to the very people you're criticising for "private agendas", effort, teamwork and all of that bullshit?  Bonehead couldn't wait to send some of them to the bench.  These are professionals, which in sports is interpreted as for the money.  If the team doesn't appear to have their interests covered, they're put in the position of doing it themselves.  From the behavior of Pax and Jerry on down, it hasn't appeared to be the case that being a "good" Bull is a very rewarding career goal.      

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 2:50 AM CDT   0 recs

JR Smith is awful
You really need to leave this guy out of any of the Paxson talk.

JR Smith has clashed with every coach in his life.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 9:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

chandler traded for
Nothing is the point. A 7 foot young big is worth something. We got two top ten picks for curry but only a drain and pj brown for tyson.
Then to not turn browns expiring deal into something last year is frustrating. Im sure you could have packaged Smith with other assets and gotten something anything back. If you didn't want him on your team why trade for him in the first place?

by Blacknight23 on Mar 11, 2008 9:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It wasn't nothing, but it wasn't enough, imo.
He had played poorly the previous season after signing a big contract and that is never the right time to trade someone. However, Paxson "had to" because he had character clashes or whatever (along with a regression in production) with Skiles.

Had Memphis not been over-reaching, Brown should have gotten Gasol. The most reasonable trade rumored I saw was Brown, Tyrus Thomas + the draft pick/Noah. That was a fair offer a year ago. However, when you consider that all they really got back for Chandler was Brown, then the trade being Chandler + Tyrus + Noah for Gasol... that might have been too much.

I dunno. I still don't like that trade. If they were playing Thomas and Noah, and, ya know, actually getting these guys experience, I'd be fine with it. But if the choice was Joe Smith/Drew Gooden ahead of these guys or Tyson chandler, I know who I'd rather have.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 11, 2008 9:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

DING!
Two posts in and we are already talking about Tyrus Thomas and his lack of playing time.

The posts on this blog are like a broken record.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 11, 2008 11:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's going to be a broken record
until the coaching staff/management sees the very obvious point  that is being beaten to death repeatedly in here.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 11, 2008 12:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

chandler traded for
Nothing is the point. A 7 foot young big is worth something. We got two top ten picks for curry but only a drain and pj brown for tyson.
Then to not turn browns expiring deal into something last year is frustrating. Im sure you could have packaged Smith with other assets and gotten something anything back. If you didn't want him on your team why trade for him in the first place? Paxson is awful.

by Blacknight23 on Mar 11, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank you
I was dittoing Matt's criticism of the intolerant attitude of staff and mgt towards attitudes.  So he clashes with the coach?  This is the NBA; managing prima donnas goes with the job.  How many games have we lost over the past two years because when we needed height or 3's from the 2, our cupboard was bare?  I like Pax, want him to stay and improve as GM, but I truly believe he followed the character thing down a dead-end path that f'd the team up good with that deal.  If you want to defend the JR decision, you're only a couple of logical steps away from dumping TT.

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 9:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't kid yourself
If you want to defend the JR decision, you're only a couple of logical steps away from dumping TT.

The JR Smith trade brought back another expiring contract.  There was little chance JR Smith would even play for the Chicago Bulls last season seeing we already had solid contributions from the current roster of guards and an incoming draft pick in Thabo Sefolosha.

JR Smith was thrown away by the Hornets because they were committed to Chris Paul and Byron Scott.  JR is a selfish player with questionable shot selection, high risk low reward defensive decision making, and uncertain future upside due for a new contract after this season.  It's unclear if Denver will even offer him a contract.  Chances are really bleak if the Nuggets miss the playoffs.

Tyrus is only in his second season in the NBA.  If you think I'm a "few logical steps away from dumping" him you must not have watched or read much about JR Smtih's second season in the NBA.  He believed he was entitled to be a starting shooting guard given a minimum of 15 shots per game.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 10:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think I said anything delusional about JR
To make my point, though, let's retool your statement.  "Tyrus Thomas is a selfish player with questionable shot selection, high risk low reward defensive decision making, and uncertain future upside due for a new contract after next season.  Its unclear if Chicago will even offer him a contract."  

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 10:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This one isn't accurate
"high risk low reward defensive decision making" relative to Tyrus Thomas.

Tyrus gets good defensive position.  When trying to block shots he's not attempting them to make him exposed defensively.  His lapses appear on offense where he's not really asked to be a consistent contributor on anything other than the glass and the free throw line.

The primary point here is that you don't know enough about JR Smith to use him as a comparison to short change any view of Tyrus Thomas.

You can read the Nuggets forums where fans think JR Smith is decent, but they're not looking at him as if he could be really good in the way BAB readers view the upside of Tyrus Thomas.  Smith plays and sucks.  Thomas can hardly get in games, but predominantly because of questionable coaching decisions.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 10:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We digress
I have nothing but the highest respect for you, NBA.  The only parallels between the 2 players are age and apparent uncoachability at this point in their careers.  My point, again, was to agree with Matt.  Would I prefer Adrian or Zak, or more to the point, Adrian or JR?  I'd take JR.

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Point noted
When I see people reference JR Smith in a positive light it just sets off my personal alarms.  I too was disappointed when we just dumped him on Denver for very little.  I looked at JR like, hey a 6'5" shooting guard, but then when I looked closer it became widely evident that trying to work him into our roster last season would be very difficult.  I didn't even think JR would survive one practice with Skiles if he had his well published troubles with Byron Scott.

I squabble with Nugget fans over JR once or twice a week.  If you saw the Nuggets@Chicago game then you should remember that 4th quarter shooting spree from Smith.  He was on fire.  After the Nuggets lost that game to us and then blew a 23 point lead at Milwaukee the next night, George Karl said JR Smith plays in "fantasyland".  Karl was right.  Even if you are on fire, chucking three point attempts 10 seconds into the shot clock can fall every time and still hurt your team.

I haven't see enough negative stuff from Tyrus off the court in his 2 seasons with us, but the "see you Thursday" comments allegedly made to his teammates is not helping him in this department.

The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nah, no positive light
Played with my share of ballhoggin wannabes.  Just meant that until Thabo panned out or didn't, we were sorely lacking in size and athleticism at guard, and he's the kind of 7th or 8th option that can turn a game around.  Didn't like giving up on TC, and JR's potential appeared to be the only chip we got back (that would/could contribute to the Baby Bulls future).  Suspected it was Skiles personal preference that we didn't even give him a look.  Than watching him turn out to be what was expected (a long, high scoring pain in the ass) really irked me.  Still can't reconcile launching him and then giving Hughes major minutes.

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 1:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so as long as they look the part
Smith mostly shoots 3s, and isn't a good defender. So maybe his size will make you feel better...and that seems to be the standard goal for the midgetguard-bashing-society.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 1:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I resent being associated with the MGBS
5'8" white guy.  AGAIN, not trying to make a case for JR.  Character is subjective and situational.  The TC>JR>Adrian "character" move looked bad at the time and has played out.  TC couldn't play for Skiles...outtahere!  JR....fuggedaboudit....outtahere.  Adrian...good presence, a keeper.  I'm AGREEING with your whole post, every single premise.  Sorry I brought up JR as an example.  It just seems like TT's career is getting the same treatment, just a little slower, and for the same reasons.    

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 1:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Griffin
isn't exactly on the roster anymore.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

California Al
Can i ask you a question?

Has Tyrus Thomas been givin a fair chance to prove his worth/value to the Chicago Bulls once in his very short careeer?

if so please explain.

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 11, 2008 11:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Better folks around here to ask than me
I am a member of the disdained national broadcast only crowd, so most of what I'm up to speed about comes from this site (thank you one and all; you guys really know your basketball).  Again, not trying to restart any JR, TC, TT analyses or debates.  Just agreeing with Matt's post.  The Zenmeister had/has the knack for melding attitude but talented players like Rodman, Pip, Grant, Kobe, Shaq, Fox, Horry, etc.  How many times have you seen Phil jump to his feet, whistle for the player who screwed up, correct him, and not even call a timeout to do it.  If he sits you, it's for minutes, not days.  If you slide further down the bench, that's because you've earned your final written warning and have to make a decision.  Contrast that with the exile treatment of Skiles/Boylan which has primarily isolated the players.  Has TT been given a fair chance?  To do what?  That's the $64K question.  I've been in orgs that have a program for growing talent, and I've been with ones that throw you in the deep end.  Seems to me that you need deep pockets with the latter philosophy.    

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 12:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the answer is yes
and repeatedly...
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 12:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i disagree
in his first starting gig here are his averages:
9.3 Ppg
7 Trbs
This is in 23 min per game which included a 21, 12 game and 19 & 14.  After the 19 & 14 game he played a total of 12 min!!!  12 min for a starter who just had a great game??  Then was sent to the bench...
2nd stint as a starter:
avg's
10.6 ppg
7.2 Trbs
in 23 min.  Started off with several good games and had 6 pts with 10 Trbs.  Then went down to 9 minutes a game and was replaced by a new acquired Drew Gooden.  I don't think that's a fair shake considering he was playign well as a starter.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 11, 2008 1:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I know you disagree
let's agree to disagree.  He'll get yet another shot, and probably two if he just shows up to practice and runs the plays when they put him in.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not good enough
there's not many games left, and even few considering the last couple may be potentially full-bore garbage time.

entitlement minutes now, and forever!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 1:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

*fewer
point is, lets agree to not defend Boylan ever.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ok sorry
forgot to add "he'll get another opportunity under the new coach next year."  How's that?
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

entitlement
what an ugly word...
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

don't activate the contrarian bot
we already had the argument over the first undeserved benching. If this 2nd one didn't make things clearer I don't know what will.

"it's time"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 1:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"It's time."
I'm really hoping Pax uses those exact words when announcing the new coach.  

It will be just as idiotic as Boylan saying that about starting Gooden, but it provides a nice "full circle" feeling to everything.

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Please
by all means explain.

by Bulls4Ever on Mar 11, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If character really counts, DUMP BOYLAN NOW!
Until tonight, I have been blaming the Skyles/Boylan axis for the Bulls woeful season, but now I have to throw Paxon into the mix.  No  wonder he constantly says "you know" so much when he tries to explain away his own screwups...obviously suffering brain cramps when trying to complete logically coherent sentences.

He said he was especially upset with TT's absence and laughingly reiterated that meaningful minutes have to be "earned" if the young bigs want to see the court during an actual game. No wonder Gooden and Hughes hog most of the minutes.  Their one walk-thru must have made a hell of an impression on our feckless leaders to "earn" so much PT.

Does anyone who follows the Bulls believe the Pistons would have dominated the Bulls in the paint and rebounding if TT and Noah were a tandum duo last night? Detroit was relieved that the dunderhead did not play one of their chief nemises during crunch time despite the fact that TT did not distinguish himself during his huge 3+ minute stint.

Hinrich was plus +9 which "earned" him a permanent seat on the bench while Gooden and even Gordon were heavy minuses.
Boylan ALWAYS finds a way to lose by going with insane matchups and rotations that vary more than the weather.  Character does count, but our mismanagement team are a bunch of characters, with a definite deficency of gray matter(my apologies to Aaron).

FIRE THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF..they won't be missed.

by Tyrusmancrush on Mar 11, 2008 2:52 AM CDT   0 recs

Amen
I liked the last postgame comment about leaving Boylan in Detroit.  Really sparked my imagination.  I'd love to see how the team would perform sans coach compared to how this year's played out.  Anyone think they'd be worse?

by California Al on Mar 11, 2008 3:13 AM CDT   0 recs

Boylan can't
control his bladder let alone this team. I hate him and if Paxson brings him back next year I may have to start watching more Celtics games with my husband.

by sue369 on Mar 11, 2008 6:30 AM CDT   0 recs

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
(That about sums up my feelings on things at the moment)

by Sports2 on Mar 11, 2008 7:06 AM CDT   0 recs

Boylan
reminds me of a classic case of a middle management peon who can't handle working with people who were born w/ talent rather than those who worked their way up the ladder.

"I drive a Dodge Stratus!" - Jim Boylan

by Noce1184 on Mar 11, 2008 8:54 AM CDT   0 recs

Just Boylan?
Sounds like Paxson to me.

by Sports2 on Mar 11, 2008 9:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Peter principle
"Employees rise to the level of their incompetence."

Perfectly exemplified in Boylan...

"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy

by mdmnd9294 on Mar 11, 2008 10:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wins heal all open wounds
A win tonight keeps our attention.  A loss at home is devastating.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 9:31 AM CDT   0 recs

Not to be
pessimistic but the Jazz are a very strong team. At least we'll get to watch what a high-level caliber point guard looks like. D-Will would definitely be the perscription to our season-long fever.

by Noce1184 on Mar 11, 2008 9:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Whomever Korver guards
ISO offense until the Jazz double team or Sloan pulls him.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 10:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Who on our team
demands a double team/could actually run the ISO? BG or Loul are the only ones who come to mind, maybe Noce.

I'm not going to enjoy watching Noce/Hughes fly out to the 3-point line as Korver drills open looks all night. I'm expecting a lot of the high pick and rolls with Boozer/Williams.

by Noce1184 on Mar 11, 2008 10:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Korver is a 3
So it's going to be Deng, Noc, Hughes or Thabo that should isolate him on the wing and just dribble past him.  I expect the Jazz to switch Korver over to the weaker offensive player and have Harpring or Brewer guard the superior Bulls offensive player.
The Kids Must Stay In The Picture!!!

by NBA Observer on Mar 11, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

reason for hope
the Jazz are much worse on the road.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 11, 2008 10:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Minutes
Well, maybe Tyrus isn't getting the minutes because, let's see, he's not as good a basketball player as Gooden?  The "Tyrus needs more burn" crowd continues to miss the point.  There will not be some magical development of Tyrus or Noah where they suddenly become great players because they get 40 minutes a night.  They are average players.  That's not to say they can't be useful, because they can be.  But I think it's safe to say you'll never see either get any All-Star consideration.

Deng and Gordon are good players who are having  bad years--Gordon because the entire offense is dysfunctional which has had a big effect on his game, and Deng because he's been hurt and trying to expand his game too quickly.  They should bounce back.  

by nateroth on Mar 11, 2008 10:02 AM CDT   0 recs

No, the problem is
we don't know how good Tyrus is and the fact that Gooden hasn't "earned" his minutes like the coaching staff obsessively tries to beat into our heads over and over. Compounded with the fact that Gooden is a backup PF. I don't see how sitting him will hurt the team, we certainly are not talking about an all star by any stretch.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 11, 2008 10:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gooden is below average.
So even by your crappy evaluation, Thomas is still better.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 11, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gooden vs. Thomas
Gooden's been above average in nine games with the Bulls.  He also is putting up better numbers than Tyrus over the entire season in points per 40 minutes, shooting percentage, rebound rate, turnover rate, and PER.  

The Hinrich-Hughes-Deng-Gooden-Noah unit has a +21 going according to 82games.  Not a true comparison, but that "Eastern Conference Champs" starting lineup from the beginning of the year of Hinrich-Gordon-Deng-Thomas-Wallace was at -36 at the time of the trade.

But Tyrus is much better than anyone on the team at two-handed dunks, I'll give you that.

by nateroth on Mar 11, 2008 10:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

heh
Tyrus is a better defender than Gooden and they are pretty much even right now in terms of offensive statistics.  Tyrus is a guy who still needs to reach his prime while Gooden is pretty much there already.  The Bulls statistically do better when Tyrus is on the floor and statistically do worse when Gooden is on the floor.  This should be a no-brainer.  When Detroit was performing layup drills against the Bulls...the coach felt our best shotblocker should be glued on the bench.  Terrible.  Obviously Gooden's 20% shooting and lackluster defense should warrant him heavy minutes that game.

by Parrotman on Mar 11, 2008 11:10 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Hateroth
If you want to use 82games +- stats to make a point, I'll do the same.

Drew Gooden's +-
2007 (Bulls): -4.3
2007 (Cavs): -1.8

  1. -8.5
  2. -4.4
Tyrus Thomas's +/-
  1. +2.4
  2. +3.1
You're right that Gooden is probably a little better offensively right now, but I think the big difference is help defense.  They're different in that Gooden doesn't do it while Tyrus is one of the league's best at it.

by YaoPau on Mar 11, 2008 11:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

one of the league's best?
I don't know about that.  Maybe when he isn't rolling up goal tends.  TT is good defensive player, the problem is the bulls have committed to Noah at the 5.  The pairing of Noah and TT is still to thin and the two of them can get bodied by bigger stronger players like Washington did a few a games ago with Heywood.  So you need a bigger player to offset that.  This wouldn't be a problem if TT was still coming off of the bench for 20-30 minutes a night.  But he's had a few bad games with foul trouble and evidently gone a little crazy.  He just needs to realize that there is another game in a few days and another chance to make it right and not act like it's the end of the world.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that's a terrible use of plus-minus
If you're going to compare 2 guys on the same team use the Roland Rating or adjusted plus-minus. 5 man units, especially one with Noah vs. one with Wallace aren't going to reveal anything.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 11, 2008 11:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We know
exactly who Gooden is and will be.  He just isn't good enough and isn't someone a young and growing team in the coming years should have to count on. It was the same problem we had with Smith.  If we were going to the conference finals this year he would have been a great asset, but since we are looking at the next three years his age and decline means we can't count on him and that he takes time away from our younger players who might actually be something in the future years that really matter.  TT on the other hand is young and still has to show us what he can give us.  If he gets the chance.  He actually does very well when he gets quality burn time.

by cranscape on Mar 11, 2008 10:18 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you're actually missing the point
the reason why people want Tyrus to play is to actually develop him.  Tyrus may or may not be the superstar he was drafted for but this organization needs to find that out.  Playing behind Gooden/Joe Smith in order to secure the 8th spot in the pathetic Eastern Conference.  Why Tyrus lost his job to Gooden blows my mind.  He was playing pretty well for a young player actually learning on the job.  
I really dont understand what is expected in Tyrus's limited 8 minutes of burn in the 2nd quarter.  I understand that yes he does miss assignments and yes he does stand on the perimeter too long, but he was productive when starting with an occasional bad game here or there.  It's the NBA people have bad games once in a while.  Tyrus was drafted to become a stud in 2-3 years, patience my friend...
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 11, 2008 10:22 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Tyrus playing time
I do respect that line of reasoning, but I don't agree with it.  Flashes are not enough.  Tyrus is either a great player or he isn't.  So far it is clear which one applies.  

And I also like Tyrus and think he will be a solid rotation guy in the league.  I'd like to keep him on the Bulls.  But I don't see how anyone can expect that a huge increase in playing time will turn him into a beast.  It's not happening.

by nateroth on Mar 11, 2008 10:31 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It already has happened.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 11, 2008 10:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

if tyrus was putting up
these numbers with 30+ min/game then maybe I would say give him til next year and label him a bust.  Right now all Tyrus has to look forward to during the game is a brief 2nd qtr stint and possibly a 2nd half stint.  He makes a mistake and is immediately taken out.  He cannot learn on the bench.  In order for him to get extended minutes he probably feels the need to make an amazing play which should not be the case.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 11, 2008 10:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

the Golden State game
is exactly the game we should hope from Tyrus in the future.  He was posting up, getting to the line, changing the game defensively, but most importantly demanding the ball in the post!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 11, 2008 10:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gooden also shows flashes
of being a decent player...but obviously that is enough to warrant him exclusive minutes at the PF position.  Nevermind the fact that he's looking like an inferior player so far to a 2nd year man that hardly gets minutes.

by Parrotman on Mar 11, 2008 11:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love decent players
John Paxson has brought me around to that.

by Takeaseat on Mar 11, 2008 1:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

More playing time
Remember, Scottie Pippen was an uproven talent who came out of little ol Central Arkansas.  Didn't play in the NCAA tournament, but had good showing in the predraft camps.

http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=scottie_pippen

Look at his 1st year numbers to his 2nd year numbers. See what more playing time can do for your numbers.

Pippen also had the luxury of not having vets being played in front of him.  Imagine if the Bulls had kept Orlando Woolridge and Pippen would have had to play behind him.  Do you think Pippen would have been able to show his abilities?

Don't say Pippen was a great player, he wasn't at the time, he worked his way there, just like Tyrus could if given the chance.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 11, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe they should have given
Brad Sellers more minutes too.

by nateroth on Mar 11, 2008 12:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually........
they did give him more minutes and guess what?  He really didn't show much improvement.

http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=brad_sellers

In Sellers 2nd season, he started 76 games of the 82 games he played.  His minutes increased from 21.9 to 27. Rebounds dropped from 4.7 to 3.0.  Everything else stayed pretty much the same.

He never showed improvement like Tyrus has, still yet Thomas has never got a real fair shake.  Thomas has never broke the 20 min average for his career.  Sitting at 15 min/game for his career right now.

So, nice try, who's the next player you are going to state?

by BullsAttitude on Mar 11, 2008 1:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

have TT's per min stats gone up with
the increased minutes he's gotten this year?  (If you check, they haven't.)
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 11, 2008 1:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, let's see
His rookie year he averaged

13.4 mins/game  47.5% FG  60.6% FT  3.7 RPG 0.6 APG  0.6 SPG  1.1 BPG 1.31 TO 2.3 PF  5.2 PPG

This year

17.0 mins/game 41% FG  72.5% FT 4.5 RPG  1.2 APG  0.7 SPG  0.9 BPG 1.04 TO  2.1 PF  6.2 PPG

So in 3.6 more mins, he is shooting a little worse but he has attempted more shots this year than he did all of last year.  He has increased his FT % by almost 12% points.  His rebounding is up by .8, he has doubled his assists, steals are about the same, blocks are down a little, Turnovers are down and his fouling is down.  Average a point more than last year.

All of this in only 3.6 more minutes a game.  So, there is improvement there, so you check again.

This kid is only 21 YEARS OLD!! How many of you at 21 knew it all, didn't make mistakes, or was a master at your profession?

The greatest comment by Thomas was the one not said but made, when he was asked during an interview what he feels he needs to do to get more playing time?  Thomas "Looks to the sky and raises his hands upward"

Here is another player for you to check out

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ellis/career_stats.html

I'm with the majority that Boylan has to go.  His BS of the playing time is earned and then Thomas gets the bench after doing well while starting.  Gooden gets put in the starting lineup for not really proving anything or earning it.  I'm sorry, I can see why Thomas rebelled.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 11, 2008 1:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thomas has improved offensively...
...while at the PF spot. He's done worse defensively. Playing out of position, and doing worse there than last year, is what has hurt him.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 11, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I misread the stats.
Not better offensively, just better in his own production. Not keeping the other guy in check, though. I could easily chalk that up to playing with Joe Smith/08 Wallace at Center instead of PJ Brown/07 Wallace at Center. I like making stuff up.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 11, 2008 3:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow......
We have to judge his per minute stats, cause that tells how great of a player he can be or what type of player he can be?

Just like where I work in wireless, our sales per day is important, but the month's end re