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Around SBN: Dallas Cowboys: Unknown Quantities

Hubie Brown says: "TT ain't all that"... and I agree!

According to Hubie:
"They thought this kid Thomas would develop, and he has not,". "That, to me, is every bit as big as the team's injury problem. Everyone was looking for growth from him, fewer mental mistakes when the game is on the line. That can be a defensive assignment, offensive continuity or, more importantly, shot selection."

"If they had gotten that major upside, then maybe you could have accepted a less-than-average performance from Wallace."

Contrary to most people on this blog, I think I agree. I still believe that this particular draft-day trade was one of Pax'x biggest mistakes, one he will regret for years to come. I would definitely have taken LaMarcus rather than TT.

The problem with TT is that other than a freakish athletic ability, I seriously don't think there is much else. The guy is (sometimes!) exciting to watch but other than that, no consistency, no basketball IQ.. He would be great as a Harlem Globetrotter but I doubt whether he will ever be a key part of an NBA team (which is what he was drafted for).

Many people moan that he is not given minutes. The truth is he has been given many chances but he just doesn't deliver on a consistent basis. This is his 2nd year in the league and unfortunately for Tyrus, every superstar that ever graced the NBA was a solid contributor night-in, night-out, by their 2nd year.

I say definitely trade this summer.

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hey douchebag
becuase you typed 3rd year please go away!!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 1, 2008 3:32 AM CST reply actions  

calm down
chill out. this is a blog, the world doesnt depend upon him getting every detail correct.  He just wanted to make a point, which many would consider valid. I can't tell whether tyrus will contribute in the future, but I think his lack of development is partially the way they have used him (he isnt a sf) as well as other factors.  Right now he is looking more like stromile swift than shawn kemp but who knows what he will turn out to be.  You can only find out by playing him more.  There isn't any reason not to since the bulls suck this year anyways.

If his value is high this summer, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and one of our many slightly above average guards for something better. It's not like he is putting up Brand type numbers.  He is more potential right now than skill and no one knows what that will develop into. I agree that fans love him more for the excitement that he brings to an irrational extent sometimes.  No one gets pissed off when he is late to cover perimeter shooters.  He is worse than Nocioni in that aspect.  

by Sambossanova on Mar 1, 2008 7:04 AM CST up reply actions  

OK...
... have corrected. Now YOU can go away and have a look at Lamarcus Aldridge's stats compared to TT's. Ha, ha...

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

i apologize
for the comment above.  If you look at the time you can bet it was a long night.  We obviously have different opinions of Tyrus but I'm not ready to give up on him yet.  Go Bulls!!!
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 4, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

welcome
to the NBA....
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 1, 2008 3:34 AM CST reply actions  

The problem is...
that he is not the solution to our problems either. We should cut our losses (i.e not drafting Aldridge) and trade him while we can still get decent value for him.

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

It's pretty amazing
That a guy who plays 17 minutes a game isn't carrying this team isn't it?  It's not because he doesn't play well either...because there are several players on this team playing worse...but get more minutes than Tyrus

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

The next person who says that TT
lacks "basketball IQ" should be banned.

That's a completely meaningless, poorly defined, cliched phrase.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 1, 2008 8:44 AM CST reply actions  

How about...
... low IQ in general then? The guy is thick.

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

You just went from being trite to
being absurd.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Mar 1, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

it's tough for Tyrus
He has to compete for minutes with his super consistent teammates. I set my watch to the production of every forward but Thomas, and there's no way I'm missing Halloween this weekend.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 1, 2008 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

His "superior consistent teamates"...
did not cost us the 2nd overall draft pick... The fact is that if we had chosen Aldridge instead of TT, we would be a contender in the East for years to come. As s i m p l e as that.

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

And you think
the Bulls would not have screwed up Aldridge's career either?  The Bulls suck at developing young players.  Aldridge would be getting eight minutes here or there buried behind so called savvy vets with a line of DNP to spice things up.  Because the is how the Bulls develop young players.  

by cranscape on Mar 1, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Thats not entirely true
THe bulls developed Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Duhon, and Deng quite well. The only ones they screwed up on were Tyson and Thomas (I am only speaking of The players around when SKiles coached). The problem became that once the initial young players had evolved into veterans, skiles decided to put a halt on developing players, and relied on said veterans way too much. Thats when things went downhill.
Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 1, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe
the bulls just suck at developing bigs.

by jpchi on Mar 1, 2008 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

In the last three years then...
I am not counting the time when they were pretty much forced to play their new young draft picks like Hinrich when there was no one else.  They similarly "discovered" Thabo when they had no other choice but to play him.  He wouldn't be the Thabo of today if Gordon, Duhon, and Hinrich didn't go through that injury spell.  

by cranscape on Mar 1, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed
But i guess im just saying that its not that the bulls suck at developing players at all, they can if they needed to. I just hate how they wont make developing tyrus a priority, or maybe they are and we just dont see it. I like the idea that maybe they just suck at developing bigs though, that really makes more sense. Especially athletic freaks like tyrus, they dont really need to be told on how to make plays, they need to be shown how to attack the rim using those god given talents.
Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 1, 2008 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

They definitely don't make it a priority.
It wouldn't be such a glaring problem if people were not making statements in the media and elsewhere that Tyrus is not good, going to be a bust, is not developing etc. As if benching, DNP, playing the three instead of the four, and general Skiles/Boylan mind games were not factors in it at all.  If Tyrus is behind on development they shouldn't be able to cherry pick only the reasons that make the player look bad when there are obvious problems coming from coaching.

by cranscape on Mar 1, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I think...
one of the biggest (read: annoying) problems in the NBA for me is the constant second-guessing hindsight. At the time, I'd put the split at 90/10 signing Ben Wallace and trading TC was a good move. At the time, drafting Aldridge was seen as Pax continuing his "quality guys from a quality program" mantra but that would never lead to a superstar like or real difference maker. So he took a shot and was generally lauded for it.

The worst offender in all of this is The Sports Guy. He harped on and on about the NBA standing for the No Balls Association back when Pax couldn't pull off a Gasol trade or Garnett trade. The fact that both those players were traded for absolute garbage talent wise in relation to the Bulls offers speaks more to the teams desire to save money instead of fielding competitive teams.

Everyone wants a superstar. Guys like Kobe, LeBron, etc. Nobody really trades for a superstar difference maker. They are all usually drafted or dumped. Simple as that.

by CubFan81 on Mar 1, 2008 10:21 AM CST reply actions  

Give him time,
remember, Tyrus came out after 1 year and didnt learn the game in college, if you gonna blame someone, blame Stern for only putting a 1 year requirement on college players....you want Roy (4  years in school) you want Aldridge (2 years in school and still green)  I too wanted aldridge, but not because some insane thought that tyrus might not be good, but because the team needed an offensive punch at the 4, and aldrige would have given them that.....
"We are who you thought we were"

by Thirdrock on Mar 1, 2008 10:24 AM CST reply actions  

Extrapolating Thomas (17 min.) over
the 34.5 minutes Aldridge plays:
Aldridge: 17 pts, 7.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 bpg, .7 stl
Thomas: 13 pts, 9.3 reb, 2.4 ast, 2 bpg, 1.4 stl
Yeah, I can totally see your argument.  Aldridge does score 4 more points per 34.5 minutes.  Thank goodness Tyrus isn't better at everything else!

by jpchi on Mar 1, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions  

stealing sbulls' thunder
The Bulls had Aldridge, they just traded him to the Cavs with Ben Wallace.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Mar 1, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

You just can't.........
You just can't get some people to see the whole picture no matter what.  I totally agree with you with on what type of numbers that Tyrus could put up if he was given consistent minutes like Aldridge has been given in Portland.

I know some will state that they will believe Thomas can average those numbers when they see it, well this is from Dwyer's Blog.

"Though Noah continues to work through the rookie wall, Thomas has been brilliant: averaging 12.8 points on 55 percent shooting, eight rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.8 blocks, and a steal since the deal. If those numbers seem modest, consider that they came in only 27 minutes per game, and that those minutes were only limited by the presence of Gooden, whose explosive (if not efficient) offensive (if not defensive) start has the coaching staff thinking about switching forwards"

Those averages are for 27 minutes, which is pretty much dead on for the averages that is stated above for 34.5 minutes.

It's like most fans that believe Gasol would have been that piece that put us over the top.  Since, he has helped the Lakers tremendously since being traded there, but people seem to forget that when he was the man in Memphis, they had one of the worst records in the league.  Also, that he led his team to the same amount of playoff victories that I have led teams to, a big fat 0.

He is doing well in LA, cause he doesn't have to be the man, Kobe is in LA.  So there is no pressure on him to lead, just to play ball.  

The Bulls need to get a leader for this team.  Then we might not see the blown 20 point leads on a consistent basis, remember we did that last year also.  

Tyrus needs time to develop, don't forget he is only 21 and is in his 2nd year.  A 2nd year in the league where he hasn't been brought along at the pace he should have been.

I don't want to trade Tyrus and have him finally develop and "get it" somewhere else to where we are kicking ourselves once again for moving a young talent to early in their career.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

There is one problem...
... with your statistical projections:

"...the 34.5 minutes Aldridge plays:
Aldridge: 17 pts, 7.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 bpg, .7 stl
Thomas: 13 pts, 9.3 reb, 2.4 ast, 2 bpg, 1.4 stl
".

Tyrus will have fouled out after 22 mins. Ha, ha..

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

put the crack pipe down
when tyrus is in his 4th or 5th year and still struggling, then he will be a bust, maybe.
one thing you have to remember about tyrus is that he did not come from a basketball hot bed.  i didnt even know they played ball in baton rouge...that is football territory big time.  i doubt tyrus had the best HS coaches in terms of overall knowledge and the means to develop a player into a big leaguer.  then he spent two years, one redshirted, at lsu...again, besides pistol pete, not a lot of bball cred at lsu.  You must take this into account when looking at tyrus.  and thats not true about every superstar in the nba becoming a force night in, night out by their second year, some superstars were still riding the pine in their second year-chauncey, nash, jermaine oneal, etc.  look at marvin williams, similar in rawness to ty when entering the nba, and now, in his third year, he is starting to show the game that everyone knew he had.  it is a learning process, and some guys take a little longer.  ty has been hitting his jumpers with more regularity and has started to develop some nice low post moves, and by next year, i feel his game will really start to take off.  

by Conor on Mar 1, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions  

I seem
to remember a large man who had a habit of breaking the support system of basketball hoops going to LSU.  I heard he turned out to be a pretty fair player.  Anyone else?

by jpchi on Mar 1, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he meant....
that LSU isn't as big at producing as much NBA talent such as Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas or even a Florida now.

LSU has produced Pistol Pete, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf(formerly Chris Jackson) and Shaquille O'neal.

And recently you have Tyrus and Glen Davis of Boston.

Which is decent but still isn't consider a basketball hotbead, especially since the football team just won the National Championship and the basketball coach was fired.  It has shifted to being a football school than a basketball school.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

good call
i forgot about shaq...so shaq and the pistol are both HOF guys...all i meant was LSU isnt exactly a bball powerhouse program

by Conor on Mar 1, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Vangelis
We're supposed to be ripping on Deng this week.  TT isn't scheduled for another two weeks.
Baby Bulls II?

by bullshooter on Mar 1, 2008 11:53 AM CST reply actions  

Do you even watch the games?
Tyrus is boss out there when he actually gets to play.

by gobulls1124 on Mar 1, 2008 12:14 PM CST reply actions  

Aldridge is soft and sucks
Aldridge is so soft its ridiculous.  The guy will never play in an all-star game.  He is the next Shareef Abdur-Rahim.  Right after the trade, Tyrus got consistent minutes and he produced.  

If you actually watch Portland play you will notice a guy who plays little defense, can't be bothered to rebound and gets pushed around constantly.  Basically he is Joe Smith.

by danger mouse on Mar 1, 2008 12:21 PM CST reply actions  

The point...
... is to win and with Aldridge starting at the 4 we would have more of a chance in this league than what we got (TT and Viktor) in exchange.

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

It's debatable
that Aldridge is even better than Thomas right now

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

That's like saying
It's debatable that Kobe Bryant is better than Ben Gordon....I think a very small, tiny percentage of folks (I'm talking 0.001%) would say Tyrus is better than Aldridge right now.

I think Tyrus can be better than ALdridge in 2 more years, but now Aldridge clearly is the better player.

I'm happy with our Tyrus draft, but it's foolish to say that we wouldn't be better with Lamarcus, we would be better today, but of course none of that would have mattered had the Wallace signing work (I would call it experiment, except it only became an experiment after Wallace sucked this year, it was a marquee signing that failed).

Imagine this year and last year if we had Wallace playing close to his former self, PJ Brown/LaMarcus Aldridge/Joe Smith/Joakim Noah at our main Big spots, and then imagine our corp of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Noc playing well....

we would have been more solid today, but likely in 3 years seen what could have been an athletic freak star blossom on another team.

Aldridge was a safe pick, but it's rare to let an athletic freak go for nothing, especially when our team is devoid of solid athleticism....

I'm happy with the gamble, I think it will pay off.  Aldridge at best is a Deng type, maybe a 1 or 2 time all star if the cards fall at the right time.

Tyrus still could be an all star lock eventually, or a mega bust, but in the meantime we see time to time the reasons why I and many others think he will become a major star at some point....

tIME WILL TELL IN 2-3 MORE YEARS.  I hope we have the patience to keep him.

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you serious?
You're going to compare the gap between Tyrus and Aldridge with the gap between Kobe and Gordon?  What has Aldridge proven in his minutes that Tyrus hasn't?  That he can score more and do everything else worse?  It's not like the gap between their points per game is that huge as it is...and Aldridge is pretty much their 2nd option over there.

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I am saying that
for reference only.....

I'm not saying either is Kobe Byrantesque....

Aldridge is a consistent scorer for one.  That is a big plus.

Aldridge has been able to play consistent minutes and still put up solid numbers for two.

And why isn't Tyrus our second option (because he's not all there yet) for 3.  We don't have a Brandon Roy on our team....

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Eddy Curry is a consistent scorer
and I see all these Knicks fans that used to praise him..turn on him.  Aldridge has been able to play consistent minutes because of his situation.  Let's reverse their situations.  Portland drafts Tyrus, Chicago drafts Aldridge.  I can definitely see Skiles/Boylan start vets like PJ Brown/Joe Smith/Drew Gooden over Aldridge. Meanwhile, Tyrus would not be on such a short leash in portland and would play much more consistent minutes.  If Aldridge started his rookie season here...he probably wouldn't even be the 2nd option on this team.

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Well Aldridge
avg's more boards, almost half the turnovers, most assists, etc. than Curry and it's only his second year in the league to boot and he plays on a decent team unlike the bottom feeding Knicks.

Not a really good comparison there.

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

and yet
You make it sound being a consistent scorer is so important and being inferior at all other aspects of the game can be overlooked.  I don't think you can say that Aldridge is a more consistent scorer than Tyrus and that is the only reason he is so much better and then turn around and say...Eddy isn't much of a player since he is just a consistent scorer.

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

parrotman 4 prez!!
:)
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Mar 4, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know
I guess having 3.0 turnovers per 36 minutes for Curry vs 1.7 turnovers for Aldridge,

Or rebounding, or assists all of which favor Aldridge, seem to indicate that ALdridge is better....

Unless of course you want big men who can't rebound, can't defend, can't pass, but lead the league in turnovers per 40 minutes....then Curry's your guy.

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

That's my point
there's more to the game than just scoring.  That's why I think it's debatable Aldridge is even better than Tyrus right now

by Parrotman on Mar 5, 2008 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't get your point
I listed several other factors, and I think you are in the BIG MINORITY in saying TYRUS is better than Aldridge right now.......you might be one of 5 and are makign a purely "homer" statment.

I think Tyrus has all star skills (they are just very raw right now)....I'm not sure ALdridge has the same ceiling, but there's no question Aldridge is better than Tyrus RIGHT NOW.

And I don't get how you try to compare Curry with Aldridge and then I refute your point fully and you say "that's my point, there's more than scoring" Obviously there's more and that's why Aldridge is better than Curry....

by majoyenrac on Mar 5, 2008 7:32 AM CST up reply actions  

umm
I addressed every one of your factors...and your only response was Aldridge is better than Curry...which was agreeing with one of my points.  Do you know what is the biggest reason I may be in a minority over this?  Because Tyrus is playing 17 minutes per game this season and I'm comparing him to a starter.  However, there are several analysts already scratching their heads wondering why Tyrus isn't getting more playing time.  So on one hand you say Tyrus is definitely worse than Aldridge right now...and then on the other hand you say he has all star skills?  You do know you're comparing someone that you say has all-star skills to someone who probably isn't close to an all-star right now..and then saying the one who isn't an all-star but plays starter minutes is definitely better, right?

You don't get my point about Curry and Aldridge?  Aldridge does many things better than Curry..but Curry is a more consistent scorer.  Likewise, Tyrus does many things better than Aldridge...Aldridge is a more consistent scorer.  I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this.  You initially said being a consistent scorer is such a big deal and I refuted that.  Curry is a more consistent scorer than Aldridge.  I disagree that being a more consistent scorer is such a big deal if you're worse in other areas.  You're agreeing with me by saying Curry is worse than Aldridge because of this.

by Parrotman on Mar 5, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm done arguing
Basically, I said Tyrus seems to have a littany of skills that Aldridge does not posess, but Tyrus is very raw with those skills, so outside of athletic ability right now probably is worse than Aldridge in anything.

He has the potential to be better.

I would take both over Mr. Turnover Curry anyday.

by majoyenrac on Mar 5, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus...
... is a liability. Let's get rid of him.

by Vangelis on Mar 6, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll be thinking the same of you
when it comes to banning season.

Honestly, coming a day later and replying a half-dozen times saying the same shit?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 6, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Temper, temper...
... I am not the only one arguing the same point in case you haven't noticed (and that includes yourself)! A day later? This thread has been running since the 1st of March. Many others also reply to several points on the same thread at the same time too (but that doesn't seem to be a problem because they bash Noce and always find excusues for Tyrus's incompetence).

You are losing your cool and seriously need to chill out and accept that other fans may have a different opinion to yours from time to time. I didn't know that a requirement of this blog was agreeing with your arguments.

by Vangelis on Mar 7, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Dude
you better hope the Bulls win tonight.

by sue369 on Mar 7, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe the term
is trolling. Not quite sure because I don't like message boards because of such behavior.

Getting your differing opinion across is one thing, but you weren't even addressing the specific comment just repeating yourself.

Don't do it. It is a requirement of the blog to get along with me.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 8, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

You again!
If you didn't read the above comment.  Here it is again!  How is Curry a consistent scorer?  He is averaging 13.2 points per game this year compared to 19.5 points per game last year.  That's a huge drop off.  Not consistent at all.  
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Eddie Curry is a consistent scorer????
HUH???????    Are we talking about the Eddie Curry who is scoring 13.2 points this year compared to 19.5 points last year?  If my math is right, that means he is scoring 6.3 points less this year.  That's a huge drop from one year to the next!!!!!!!  <<<<<<< This is why the New York fans have turned on him.  He is not a consistent scorer!
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Among other everything else that he does poorly
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

We should completely ban....
....any more quoting of Hubie Brown after this disaster:

"If they had gotten that major upside, then maybe you could have accepted a less-than-average performance from Wallace."

Did he really say this?  I think he's lost his mind.  He's should be out of the running for any future coaching jobs.

The Bulls could've accepted less-than-average production from a $60 million player they had signed to put them over the top, if they had only gotten major upside from a 22 year old on his rookie contract?  Hubie, put down the crack pipe and step away from that torch.

Vangelis,

While I get your point, you really shouldn't try looking for wisdom in the words of Hubie Brown.  Tyrus is younger than Noah, and he's never had great coaching (with the possible exception of Scott Skiles) his entire life.  Expecting a 2nd-year player to take the heat off a hired hit-man with a championship ring getting paid $15 million per year is somewhat absurd.

Furthermore, you're completely incorrect in your summary statement:

"This is his 2nd year in the league and unfortunately for Tyrus, every superstar that ever graced the NBA was a solid contributor night-in, night-out, by their 2nd year."

In his second season, Steve Nash averaged 9.1 points and 3.4 assists while earning the right to start 9 whole games.  That was just the first example that popped into my head, I'm sure there are dozens more.

And calling Tyrus stupid doesn't make you seem any smarter.  Unless you can provide proof of low IQ scores or lack of academic prowess by Tyrus, we're all left to assume that he's about as smart as the average NBA player.

Comparing Tyrus to LaMarcus at this point is just mental masturbation.  I have no faith whatsoever that Skiles or Boylan would've played Aldridge ahead of Wallace, PJ Brown, and Joe Smith.  If they won't play a #4 pick or #9 pick, why assume they'd play a #2 pick?

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 1, 2008 12:24 PM CST reply actions  

Menal masturbation...
... is NOT comparing the two. One was traded for the other...

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you define a superstar?
I think the term superstar gets thrown around way too much!  Is steve Nash a superstar?  Where's his rings?  You would think a so called superstar would play good to great defense.  Nash does neither.  Those two MVPs that Nash won is a complete joke!  Jordan only won 5 MVPs when everyone knows he should have won at least 2 more.  
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

This is
such a ridiculous statement
every superstar that ever graced the NBA was a solid contributor night-in, night-out, by their 2nd year

that it negates any valid point you may have had.

by JeffD on Mar 1, 2008 12:31 PM CST reply actions  

And for all you
PER guys, Tyrus's 15.1 PER currently is higher than Pippen's was for his second eyar in the league, and I don't think anyone would say Pippen wasn't a superstar at his prime.  (I mean anyone can say that, but that just means they are idiots)...

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, but Pippen showed true basketball skills
in his 1st two years.  Tyrus has simply showed us that he is an athlete.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The only
point he is trying to get across is that every Superstar, and by that he means Big O, Dr. J, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Michael, Duncan, Lebron, etc. if you see what I'm getting at, yes those players contributed night-in, night-out by their 2nd year.  Yet, those guys are on a different level than anyone else.

Now, NBA stars is a different story.  Those are players that can contribute and be a very important part of a championship team or decent team.  They are all-stars, maybe an occasional MVP winner, yet not the player that can carry a team when it needs it.

They can take a few years to develop into the player that they can be, also the right situation plays a part in it.  

Now, on the statement, we all know Tyrus is never going to be a "Superstar" on that level, but he can become a star with the right coaching and development.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 12:55 PM CST reply actions  

Also
Those guys were either starting, or at least playing 20 min per game in those two seasons. Tyrus has probably only really played 1 seasons worth in total because of how many dnps he has gotten. Tyrus shows signs of having a jumper that could rival Aldridge, explosiveness both on defense and offense, and a strong desire to play hard. I think what coaches claim as lack of effort for tyrus, really is tyrus trying way too hard...
Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 1, 2008 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

example
comments like this are why vangelis goes crazy.  Aldridge is obviously much better at this moment.  He is playing for a playoff contender and is getting those numbers and for a reason...because he is good.  He might not be a powerful big man but no one ever said you cant be a good finesse big man.

As for your comments on Tyrus, the other players mentioned played more than 20 minutes per game because they were good.  Tyrus doesnt because he isnt that good yet.  The kid is raw and his jumper does not show signs that it could rivale aldridge's.  Its improved but i still shriek when he shoots from far. And a strong desire to play hard?  How do we know this again?  Is this because he likes to dunk? If he were trying too hard, then why would coaches say he isnt getting up and down the court fast enough?

Tyrus is what he is.  I think the coaches dont play him enough because they think they are vying for a playoff spot and they can somehow contend. Otherwise they wouldn't mind as much all the careless mistakes and inconsistencies that come along with being a freakish raw but promising basketball player.

by Sambossanova on Mar 2, 2008 4:21 AM CST up reply actions  

You shrieking means nothing.
I feel happy when he takes it so that means it's obviously good. Yay. Blogger anxiety to evaluate a player. What comes next?
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 2, 2008 8:01 AM CST up reply actions  

They also play 20+ minutes a game
because their team sucked.

Tyrus had the unfortunate circumstance of being a lottery pick on an already decent team.  Usually a #2 pick is going to a place that desperate needs his help and that's why he gets played a lot and gets to develop right away.  Lebron.. Durant... Aldridge.. all those guys went to struggling teams that needed their lottery pick to help out.

by Jaina on Mar 2, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Gee, by this logic
I guess Andrew Bynum is a bust and isn't that good too.  He wasn't getting any major minutes for a while in LA and was playing behind Kwame Brown for a big period of time.

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

David West
must also be a bust then. :)

by jpchi on Mar 4, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow, how popular is TT?
The fact that TT has not been taught the game of basketball "properly" is a major concern, a negative, and certainly not a positive as some seem to believe.

My concern is that TT does not appear to be a clever player at all. The majority of great things that he does on the court are because of his unquestionable athletic ability. The problem is that he then goes and commits 2 fouls in the next 32 seconds... or turns the ball over... or f***s up defensively.

Ofcourse he will improve eventually. But No 2 draft pick? Come on... Maybe some of our fans are happy with just making it to the playoffs every year. I want more than this, I want the Bulls to become a contender once again.

But for this to happen, we need QUALITY players that can win tight games, players we can rely on. It is unlikely that someone learning the fundamentals of basketball in their early 20s will become a quality player in the league. I stand by my statement that the true SUPERSTARS of this league have always contributed right from the beginning. They certainly did not come to the NBA to learn how to play the game.

We will never win another 'chip without a true leader and what I am trying to say is that noone on this roster is untouchable. However popular they may be... I am sick of waiting for "players to develop" while KG, Gasol and (possibly) Kobe are slipping through our fingers.

PS. Some people are getting WAY carried away with projected points per minutes played etc. Guys we are talking about real basketball here, i.e what actually happens on the court... not some kind of fantasy league. I accept the theory but projected points are exactly that, these stats cannot be used as facts.

by Vangelis on Mar 1, 2008 1:43 PM CST reply actions  

not every number 2
draft pick is equal.  that draft is going to go down as one of the worst of all time.  other than gay and roy, no one is really doing much in that class.  hilton armstrong, saer sene, jj redick, adam morrison, andrea bargnani (whos been awful this year), shelden williams, and patrick o'bryant were all lottery picks that year.  yikes.

by Mike C on Mar 1, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

TT does not appear to be clever ...............
at all statement really surprises me.  Did you even watch any of the Golden State game, Tyrus was demanding the ball and making the right decisions with it when he got it.  Your statement makes it seem that he never plays smart, yet that game and other games he has shown the ability to make the right play when needed.

Yes, he will make mistakes as he is only 21 years old as a player.  I don't know how old you are but I have a question, did you know it all at 21 years of age?  If you didn't, then please run for President of the United States cause we need someone that has never made mistakes early on in life.

That's how you learn as a player, from mistakes and also from having a good coach who can guide you along the way.  Something Tyrus hasn't really had here as Skiles would pull him for mistakes as Boylan does now.

Hell, it took Phil Jackson to get Michael to realize that your teammates will make mistakes but you still have to trust in them to be successful.  That was a mistake Michael was making time and time again until his late 20's.  Let me state that again, his late 20's.  

Now, if Tyrus is still making the stupid fouls, turning the ball over or not rotating on defense in 3 years or so, then we have a problem.  Hell, Chandler just recently was able to cut back on his fouls and he is in his 7th year in the league!

You can keep wishing for players that we tried to acquire, but remember it takes 2 GMs to make a trade.  The other one has to be willing to take the deals offered.  People seem to forget that we offered Deng, Chandler and the #2 pick for Garnett before the '06 Draft.  McHale didn't want to deal then, and the KG lost some value as the T-Wolves got worse.  Throw in the fact that McHale and Ainge are buddies and that puts us out of the race.

On Gasol, the way the Grizzlies owner made comments about the Bulls shows his own stupidity of not trading Gasol earlier. Once again he waited to long to trade him and he didn't get the offers he had before, thus deciding to do the salary dump.  Plus, Gasol is not piece that would have put us over the top as he was for LA.

I agree we need a true leader to become contenders again, but I don't want a 2 maybe 3 year window ala Boston.  I want to see the Bulls contend like they did from '89 to '98.  Like the Pistons are now, being a contending team from '03 to present.

As for the projected points, this was a fact from Kelly Dwyer's blog.

"Thomas has been brilliant: averaging 12.8 points on 55 percent shooting, eight rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.8 blocks, and a steal since the deal. If those numbers seem modest, consider that they came in only 27 minutes per game, and that those minutes were only limited by the presence of Gooden, whose explosive (if not efficient) offensive (if not defensive) start has the coaching staff thinking about switching forwards."

See, we really don't know what Thomas could do if giving the minutes like Aldridge has gotten.  We have seen Aldridge's numbers be better cause he has gotten playing time, Tyrus hasn't gotten the same opportunity.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

If what you want is a superstar
then drafting Aldridge instead of TT wouldn't have helped.

by JeffD on Mar 1, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

We need quality players that can win tight games?
Last time I checked...Tyrus has been that type of player recently.  Heck, I'd trust him more in tight games than any of our vets.  He's a lot more clever than you give him credit for.  Which Bulls player on this team is that clever anyway?  We have vets on this team still making rookie mistakes...yet you want to focus the blame on a young player who's never gotten consistent minutes.

by Parrotman on Mar 4, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Impatience
He can barely drink.  And lately he's shown some flashes.  For a big man who when he came here could only dunk, block and run, that's quite a transformation.
Drew Gooden beard meter - 6 (Old Amish Carpenter)

by cubbybear on Mar 1, 2008 4:19 PM CST reply actions  

The label "SuperStar"
and Tyrus mentioned in the same sentence is mutual exclusive.  I don't understand where all of this "superstar" optimism originated?  Did Paxson ,Hollinger and Thorpe drop this seed?  They are wrong..  Tyrus is a NBA role player today, and based on what he's shown as a 21 years old man with almost two years of NBA experience, he'll continue to improve to be a servicable nba role player.

by exult463 on Mar 2, 2008 6:20 PM CST reply actions  

is he a man, or a stupid kid?
can't keep it straight...this is what I get for reading all comments. Being supreme overlord here has its drawbacks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

THe Problem with what Hubie and you are saying
Is that we drafted Tyrus as a project.  I don't think anyone was counting on him delivering much of anything last year, and most thought it would take him 3+ years to get some development....

Then he had moments of brilliance mixed in with moments of ineptness last season, and suddenly everyone (myself included) was licking their chops at what we had.

Tyrus is only 21, and he was drafted as a raw, but gifted, athlete.

Frankly while he hasn't gotten to the level we though he could have been after the 2nd half last year, he's probably been better than Paxson and crew expected when we drafted him.

Let's not put him in a bust or trade category yet.  We just need to be patient.  I think unlike Hubie that the fact that everyone else regressed, put a lot more pressure on T2 to continue his development, and so we notice him more.

Give him more consistent minutes and eventually he'll be there.

I would trade everyone else on the team twice over (sans Noah who I'd trade once over) before I traded Thomas unless we netted a Kobe, James, Wade type, which ain't happening cuz those guys ain't moving

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 10:45 AM CST reply actions  

my solution
play TT at the 3 (BG, Hughes, TT, Gooden, and Noah) and watch TT dominate.  Noc and Deng both stink Deng most responsible for the lack of progression this year.  Don't know the stats but the SF position seems to be a blackhole this year.  TT at the 3 is an instant mismatch and it cancels out the lack of size in the backcourt.   how many 3's can guard TT?  I woulda liked to see him at least try to guard Lebron (nobody else could) he rejected him once.  Not to mention TT's imoproved jump shot which imo makes him just as good as Deng has been lately.
TT is the Bull most likely to be an All-Star in the future.  he changes the game at both ends.  If we had a point guard he would be a lot better, alley oop all day

by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:30 AM CST reply actions  

im oversimplying
of course, but it puts him away from his strengths as a defender.

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

length + athleticism
go a long way as far as defense is concerned.  Is the fear that other 3's are too fast?  I see the mismatch working in his favor on defense, especially if he has help.

by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm sorry but that argument is BS
Tyrus was matched up here or there against Lebron, and Tyrus showed his athleticism AND Looked more athletic than James (just 1/8th as skilled)....

Once he adjusts to the speed at the 3, he'll be fine.

I agree that DENG has been much worse than expected even when not healthy.  I do think Noc does a more than decent job out there though.

DENG'S A MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

lebron is a beast anyways
so it takes a special kind of player to be able to guard him reasonably.

however, were you people not watching the same game i was when he was playing the 3?  he was ineffective on both offense and defense.  the man needs to play near the basket.

the thing is, i know there are people here who believe he should be a 4 and those who believe he will be a 3 and i know there's no convincing you all otherwise.  i believe right now he's more effective as a 4 and should be played there.  he might turn into a 3 if he becomes more skilled, but his talents are best used for his pogo-stick routine near the basket.

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree
that he is right now more effective at the 4.....and I'm done with my arguments (even though it wasn't with you).

But I do agree RIGHT NOW he's more effective at the 4, but I think otherwise long term for T2 to be the player he can be....

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

those lineups were weird
I wasn't sure if TT was playing the 5 or the 3 some of the game.  i remember tt, noc, deng and gooden at one time...  TT and Noah feed off of each other, but i think Gooden is the more polished of the 3.  I guess i just think TT should be first off of the bench for deng or gooden.

by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

i know, i know
and i didn't really wanna add fuel to the fire yet at the same time it was being brought up again... it will never stop, huh?

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Not with me
That's why I stopped it too :).....

I love the open endedness though.

I think we should devote an entire blog on the matter....what do you think?

Everyday I can make my point and every day 1 or 2 will agree and one or 2 won't.

I'm sure it'll keep being interesting for all :).

Sorry about that....I couldnt' help myself earlier and tried to nip in the bud quickly.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus Thomas's worst games
were the ones where they experimented with him at the 3. He doesn't have the slashing style of offensive game needed to play there.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

TT at the 3...
... would foul out within 5 minutes! Playing the 3 would require an extreme makeover I'm afraid.

As someone else said, the best use of Tyrus requires a decent point guard and "alley oop" all day.

by Vangelis on Mar 3, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

it is less about tt
and more about deng and noc's lack of productivity at the 3.

by Zac23 on Mar 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

A small forward needs some sort of jump shot!
Tyrus doesn't!  You couldn't spread the floor.  "TNT"  is 6'9".  Last time I checked there are plenty of 6'8"/6'9" small forwards.   Tyrus changes the game on the offensive end?  Huh?  Since when did he become Amare S.?  I do agree with you point guard comment.  Just look what Chris Paul is doing for Tyson Chandler.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Tyrus......
reminds me of those college track stars who enter the NFL draft once and awhile.  Freakish speed, but no true football skills.  I hate to say this but Thomas is simply an athlete who doesn't have any true basketball feel.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions  

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