Hubie Brown says: "TT ain't all that"... and I agree!
According to Hubie:
"They thought this kid Thomas would develop, and he has not,". "That, to me, is every bit as big as the team's injury problem. Everyone was looking for growth from him, fewer mental mistakes when the game is on the line. That can be a defensive assignment, offensive continuity or, more importantly, shot selection."
"If they had gotten that major upside, then maybe you could have accepted a less-than-average performance from Wallace."
Contrary to most people on this blog, I think I agree. I still believe that this particular draft-day trade was one of Pax'x biggest mistakes, one he will regret for years to come. I would definitely have taken LaMarcus rather than TT.
The problem with TT is that other than a freakish athletic ability, I seriously don't think there is much else. The guy is (sometimes!) exciting to watch but other than that, no consistency, no basketball IQ.. He would be great as a Harlem Globetrotter but I doubt whether he will ever be a key part of an NBA team (which is what he was drafted for).
Many people moan that he is not given minutes. The truth is he has been given many chances but he just doesn't deliver on a consistent basis. This is his 2nd year in the league and unfortunately for Tyrus, every superstar that ever graced the NBA was a solid contributor night-in, night-out, by their 2nd year.
I say definitely trade this summer.
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hey douchebag
calm down
If his value is high this summer, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him and one of our many slightly above average guards for something better. It's not like he is putting up Brand type numbers. He is more potential right now than skill and no one knows what that will develop into. I agree that fans love him more for the excitement that he brings to an irrational extent sometimes. No one gets pissed off when he is late to cover perimeter shooters. He is worse than Nocioni in that aspect.
OK...
i apologize
The problem is...
It's pretty amazing
The next person who says that TT
That's a completely meaningless, poorly defined, cliched phrase.
You just went from being trite to
it's tough for Tyrus
His "superior consistent teamates"...
And you think
Thats not entirely true
In the last three years then...
Agreed
They definitely don't make it a priority.
I think...
The worst offender in all of this is The Sports Guy. He harped on and on about the NBA standing for the No Balls Association back when Pax couldn't pull off a Gasol trade or Garnett trade. The fact that both those players were traded for absolute garbage talent wise in relation to the Bulls offers speaks more to the teams desire to save money instead of fielding competitive teams.
Everyone wants a superstar. Guys like Kobe, LeBron, etc. Nobody really trades for a superstar difference maker. They are all usually drafted or dumped. Simple as that.
Give him time,
Extrapolating Thomas (17 min.) over
Aldridge: 17 pts, 7.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 bpg, .7 stl
Thomas: 13 pts, 9.3 reb, 2.4 ast, 2 bpg, 1.4 stl
Yeah, I can totally see your argument. Aldridge does score 4 more points per 34.5 minutes. Thank goodness Tyrus isn't better at everything else!
stealing sbulls' thunder
You just can't.........
I know some will state that they will believe Thomas can average those numbers when they see it, well this is from Dwyer's Blog.
"Though Noah continues to work through the rookie wall, Thomas has been brilliant: averaging 12.8 points on 55 percent shooting, eight rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.8 blocks, and a steal since the deal. If those numbers seem modest, consider that they came in only 27 minutes per game, and that those minutes were only limited by the presence of Gooden, whose explosive (if not efficient) offensive (if not defensive) start has the coaching staff thinking about switching forwards"
Those averages are for 27 minutes, which is pretty much dead on for the averages that is stated above for 34.5 minutes.
It's like most fans that believe Gasol would have been that piece that put us over the top. Since, he has helped the Lakers tremendously since being traded there, but people seem to forget that when he was the man in Memphis, they had one of the worst records in the league. Also, that he led his team to the same amount of playoff victories that I have led teams to, a big fat 0.
He is doing well in LA, cause he doesn't have to be the man, Kobe is in LA. So there is no pressure on him to lead, just to play ball.
The Bulls need to get a leader for this team. Then we might not see the blown 20 point leads on a consistent basis, remember we did that last year also.
Tyrus needs time to develop, don't forget he is only 21 and is in his 2nd year. A 2nd year in the league where he hasn't been brought along at the pace he should have been.
I don't want to trade Tyrus and have him finally develop and "get it" somewhere else to where we are kicking ourselves once again for moving a young talent to early in their career.
by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
There is one problem...
"...the 34.5 minutes Aldridge plays:
Aldridge: 17 pts, 7.4 reb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 bpg, .7 stl
Thomas: 13 pts, 9.3 reb, 2.4 ast, 2 bpg, 1.4 stl
".
Tyrus will have fouled out after 22 mins. Ha, ha..
put the crack pipe down
one thing you have to remember about tyrus is that he did not come from a basketball hot bed. i didnt even know they played ball in baton rouge...that is football territory big time. i doubt tyrus had the best HS coaches in terms of overall knowledge and the means to develop a player into a big leaguer. then he spent two years, one redshirted, at lsu...again, besides pistol pete, not a lot of bball cred at lsu. You must take this into account when looking at tyrus. and thats not true about every superstar in the nba becoming a force night in, night out by their second year, some superstars were still riding the pine in their second year-chauncey, nash, jermaine oneal, etc. look at marvin williams, similar in rawness to ty when entering the nba, and now, in his third year, he is starting to show the game that everyone knew he had. it is a learning process, and some guys take a little longer. ty has been hitting his jumpers with more regularity and has started to develop some nice low post moves, and by next year, i feel his game will really start to take off.
by Conor on Mar 1, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions
I seem
I think he meant....
LSU has produced Pistol Pete, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf(formerly Chris Jackson) and Shaquille O'neal.
And recently you have Tyrus and Glen Davis of Boston.
Which is decent but still isn't consider a basketball hotbead, especially since the football team just won the National Championship and the basketball coach was fired. It has shifted to being a football school than a basketball school.
by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
good call
by Conor on Mar 1, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Vangelis
Aldridge is soft and sucks
If you actually watch Portland play you will notice a guy who plays little defense, can't be bothered to rebound and gets pushed around constantly. Basically he is Joe Smith.
by danger mouse on Mar 1, 2008 12:21 PM CST reply actions
The point...
It's debatable
That's like saying
I think Tyrus can be better than ALdridge in 2 more years, but now Aldridge clearly is the better player.
I'm happy with our Tyrus draft, but it's foolish to say that we wouldn't be better with Lamarcus, we would be better today, but of course none of that would have mattered had the Wallace signing work (I would call it experiment, except it only became an experiment after Wallace sucked this year, it was a marquee signing that failed).
Imagine this year and last year if we had Wallace playing close to his former self, PJ Brown/LaMarcus Aldridge/Joe Smith/Joakim Noah at our main Big spots, and then imagine our corp of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Noc playing well....
we would have been more solid today, but likely in 3 years seen what could have been an athletic freak star blossom on another team.
Aldridge was a safe pick, but it's rare to let an athletic freak go for nothing, especially when our team is devoid of solid athleticism....
I'm happy with the gamble, I think it will pay off. Aldridge at best is a Deng type, maybe a 1 or 2 time all star if the cards fall at the right time.
Tyrus still could be an all star lock eventually, or a mega bust, but in the meantime we see time to time the reasons why I and many others think he will become a major star at some point....
tIME WILL TELL IN 2-3 MORE YEARS. I hope we have the patience to keep him.
Are you serious?
I am saying that
I'm not saying either is Kobe Byrantesque....
Aldridge is a consistent scorer for one. That is a big plus.
Aldridge has been able to play consistent minutes and still put up solid numbers for two.
And why isn't Tyrus our second option (because he's not all there yet) for 3. We don't have a Brandon Roy on our team....
Eddy Curry is a consistent scorer
Well Aldridge
Not a really good comparison there.
and yet
I don't know
Or rebounding, or assists all of which favor Aldridge, seem to indicate that ALdridge is better....
Unless of course you want big men who can't rebound, can't defend, can't pass, but lead the league in turnovers per 40 minutes....then Curry's your guy.
That's my point
I don't get your point
I think Tyrus has all star skills (they are just very raw right now)....I'm not sure ALdridge has the same ceiling, but there's no question Aldridge is better than Tyrus RIGHT NOW.
And I don't get how you try to compare Curry with Aldridge and then I refute your point fully and you say "that's my point, there's more than scoring" Obviously there's more and that's why Aldridge is better than Curry....
umm
You don't get my point about Curry and Aldridge? Aldridge does many things better than Curry..but Curry is a more consistent scorer. Likewise, Tyrus does many things better than Aldridge...Aldridge is a more consistent scorer. I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. You initially said being a consistent scorer is such a big deal and I refuted that. Curry is a more consistent scorer than Aldridge. I disagree that being a more consistent scorer is such a big deal if you're worse in other areas. You're agreeing with me by saying Curry is worse than Aldridge because of this.
I'm done arguing
He has the potential to be better.
I would take both over Mr. Turnover Curry anyday.
I'll be thinking the same of you
Honestly, coming a day later and replying a half-dozen times saying the same shit?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 6, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
Temper, temper...
You are losing your cool and seriously need to chill out and accept that other fans may have a different opinion to yours from time to time. I didn't know that a requirement of this blog was agreeing with your arguments.
I believe the term
Getting your differing opinion across is one thing, but you weren't even addressing the specific comment just repeating yourself.
Don't do it. It is a requirement of the blog to get along with me.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 8, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
You again!
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Eddie Curry is a consistent scorer????
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
Among other everything else that he does poorly
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
We should completely ban....
"If they had gotten that major upside, then maybe you could have accepted a less-than-average performance from Wallace."
Did he really say this? I think he's lost his mind. He's should be out of the running for any future coaching jobs.
The Bulls could've accepted less-than-average production from a $60 million player they had signed to put them over the top, if they had only gotten major upside from a 22 year old on his rookie contract? Hubie, put down the crack pipe and step away from that torch.
Vangelis,
While I get your point, you really shouldn't try looking for wisdom in the words of Hubie Brown. Tyrus is younger than Noah, and he's never had great coaching (with the possible exception of Scott Skiles) his entire life. Expecting a 2nd-year player to take the heat off a hired hit-man with a championship ring getting paid $15 million per year is somewhat absurd.
Furthermore, you're completely incorrect in your summary statement:
"This is his 2nd year in the league and unfortunately for Tyrus, every superstar that ever graced the NBA was a solid contributor night-in, night-out, by their 2nd year."
In his second season, Steve Nash averaged 9.1 points and 3.4 assists while earning the right to start 9 whole games. That was just the first example that popped into my head, I'm sure there are dozens more.
And calling Tyrus stupid doesn't make you seem any smarter. Unless you can provide proof of low IQ scores or lack of academic prowess by Tyrus, we're all left to assume that he's about as smart as the average NBA player.
Comparing Tyrus to LaMarcus at this point is just mental masturbation. I have no faith whatsoever that Skiles or Boylan would've played Aldridge ahead of Wallace, PJ Brown, and Joe Smith. If they won't play a #4 pick or #9 pick, why assume they'd play a #2 pick?
by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 1, 2008 12:24 PM CST reply actions
How do you define a superstar?
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
This is
that it negates any valid point you may have had.
And for all you
Yeah, but Pippen showed true basketball skills
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
The only
Now, NBA stars is a different story. Those are players that can contribute and be a very important part of a championship team or decent team. They are all-stars, maybe an occasional MVP winner, yet not the player that can carry a team when it needs it.
They can take a few years to develop into the player that they can be, also the right situation plays a part in it.
Now, on the statement, we all know Tyrus is never going to be a "Superstar" on that level, but he can become a star with the right coaching and development.
Also
example
As for your comments on Tyrus, the other players mentioned played more than 20 minutes per game because they were good. Tyrus doesnt because he isnt that good yet. The kid is raw and his jumper does not show signs that it could rivale aldridge's. Its improved but i still shriek when he shoots from far. And a strong desire to play hard? How do we know this again? Is this because he likes to dunk? If he were trying too hard, then why would coaches say he isnt getting up and down the court fast enough?
Tyrus is what he is. I think the coaches dont play him enough because they think they are vying for a playoff spot and they can somehow contend. Otherwise they wouldn't mind as much all the careless mistakes and inconsistencies that come along with being a freakish raw but promising basketball player.
You shrieking means nothing.
They also play 20+ minutes a game
Tyrus had the unfortunate circumstance of being a lottery pick on an already decent team. Usually a #2 pick is going to a place that desperate needs his help and that's why he gets played a lot and gets to develop right away. Lebron.. Durant... Aldridge.. all those guys went to struggling teams that needed their lottery pick to help out.
Gee, by this logic
Wow, how popular is TT?
My concern is that TT does not appear to be a clever player at all. The majority of great things that he does on the court are because of his unquestionable athletic ability. The problem is that he then goes and commits 2 fouls in the next 32 seconds... or turns the ball over... or f***s up defensively.
Ofcourse he will improve eventually. But No 2 draft pick? Come on... Maybe some of our fans are happy with just making it to the playoffs every year. I want more than this, I want the Bulls to become a contender once again.
But for this to happen, we need QUALITY players that can win tight games, players we can rely on. It is unlikely that someone learning the fundamentals of basketball in their early 20s will become a quality player in the league. I stand by my statement that the true SUPERSTARS of this league have always contributed right from the beginning. They certainly did not come to the NBA to learn how to play the game.
We will never win another 'chip without a true leader and what I am trying to say is that noone on this roster is untouchable. However popular they may be... I am sick of waiting for "players to develop" while KG, Gasol and (possibly) Kobe are slipping through our fingers.
PS. Some people are getting WAY carried away with projected points per minutes played etc. Guys we are talking about real basketball here, i.e what actually happens on the court... not some kind of fantasy league. I accept the theory but projected points are exactly that, these stats cannot be used as facts.
not every number 2
by Mike C on Mar 1, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
TT does not appear to be clever ...............
Yes, he will make mistakes as he is only 21 years old as a player. I don't know how old you are but I have a question, did you know it all at 21 years of age? If you didn't, then please run for President of the United States cause we need someone that has never made mistakes early on in life.
That's how you learn as a player, from mistakes and also from having a good coach who can guide you along the way. Something Tyrus hasn't really had here as Skiles would pull him for mistakes as Boylan does now.
Hell, it took Phil Jackson to get Michael to realize that your teammates will make mistakes but you still have to trust in them to be successful. That was a mistake Michael was making time and time again until his late 20's. Let me state that again, his late 20's.
Now, if Tyrus is still making the stupid fouls, turning the ball over or not rotating on defense in 3 years or so, then we have a problem. Hell, Chandler just recently was able to cut back on his fouls and he is in his 7th year in the league!
You can keep wishing for players that we tried to acquire, but remember it takes 2 GMs to make a trade. The other one has to be willing to take the deals offered. People seem to forget that we offered Deng, Chandler and the #2 pick for Garnett before the '06 Draft. McHale didn't want to deal then, and the KG lost some value as the T-Wolves got worse. Throw in the fact that McHale and Ainge are buddies and that puts us out of the race.
On Gasol, the way the Grizzlies owner made comments about the Bulls shows his own stupidity of not trading Gasol earlier. Once again he waited to long to trade him and he didn't get the offers he had before, thus deciding to do the salary dump. Plus, Gasol is not piece that would have put us over the top as he was for LA.
I agree we need a true leader to become contenders again, but I don't want a 2 maybe 3 year window ala Boston. I want to see the Bulls contend like they did from '89 to '98. Like the Pistons are now, being a contending team from '03 to present.
As for the projected points, this was a fact from Kelly Dwyer's blog.
"Thomas has been brilliant: averaging 12.8 points on 55 percent shooting, eight rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.8 blocks, and a steal since the deal. If those numbers seem modest, consider that they came in only 27 minutes per game, and that those minutes were only limited by the presence of Gooden, whose explosive (if not efficient) offensive (if not defensive) start has the coaching staff thinking about switching forwards."
See, we really don't know what Thomas could do if giving the minutes like Aldridge has gotten. We have seen Aldridge's numbers be better cause he has gotten playing time, Tyrus hasn't gotten the same opportunity.
by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
We need quality players that can win tight games?
Impatience
The label "SuperStar"
is he a man, or a stupid kid?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 2, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
THe Problem with what Hubie and you are saying
Then he had moments of brilliance mixed in with moments of ineptness last season, and suddenly everyone (myself included) was licking their chops at what we had.
Tyrus is only 21, and he was drafted as a raw, but gifted, athlete.
Frankly while he hasn't gotten to the level we though he could have been after the 2nd half last year, he's probably been better than Paxson and crew expected when we drafted him.
Let's not put him in a bust or trade category yet. We just need to be patient. I think unlike Hubie that the fact that everyone else regressed, put a lot more pressure on T2 to continue his development, and so we notice him more.
Give him more consistent minutes and eventually he'll be there.
I would trade everyone else on the team twice over (sans Noah who I'd trade once over) before I traded Thomas unless we netted a Kobe, James, Wade type, which ain't happening cuz those guys ain't moving
my solution
TT is the Bull most likely to be an All-Star in the future. he changes the game at both ends. If we had a point guard he would be a lot better, alley oop all day
by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:30 AM CST reply actions
length + athleticism
by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry but that argument is BS
Once he adjusts to the speed at the 3, he'll be fine.
I agree that DENG has been much worse than expected even when not healthy. I do think Noc does a more than decent job out there though.
DENG'S A MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT.
lebron is a beast anyways
however, were you people not watching the same game i was when he was playing the 3? he was ineffective on both offense and defense. the man needs to play near the basket.
the thing is, i know there are people here who believe he should be a 4 and those who believe he will be a 3 and i know there's no convincing you all otherwise. i believe right now he's more effective as a 4 and should be played there. he might turn into a 3 if he becomes more skilled, but his talents are best used for his pogo-stick routine near the basket.
I agree
But I do agree RIGHT NOW he's more effective at the 4, but I think otherwise long term for T2 to be the player he can be....
those lineups were weird
by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
i know, i know
Not with me
I love the open endedness though.
I think we should devote an entire blog on the matter....what do you think?
Everyday I can make my point and every day 1 or 2 will agree and one or 2 won't.
I'm sure it'll keep being interesting for all :).
Sorry about that....I couldnt' help myself earlier and tried to nip in the bud quickly.
Tyrus Thomas's worst games
by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
TT at the 3...
As someone else said, the best use of Tyrus requires a decent point guard and "alley oop" all day.
it is less about tt
by Zac23 on Mar 4, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
A small forward needs some sort of jump shot!
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Tyrus......
by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 8, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions

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