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What about Doug Collins?

Just wanted to throw this out there, but what about Doug Collins?  He took over this team when it was young in the 80's, he helped in developing Pippen and Grant.  Was able to get the team to the 2nd round in '88 and to the Conf. Finals in '89.

He last coached in Washington, during Michael's 3rd return to the league.  He was not able to coach completely cause you knew Michael had more say than Collins when it came to playing time.

I don't know, but since we have became the youngest team in the league again, maybe he would be good in helping our youngsters improve.  Pax could maybe bring him in with a goal in mind of him being that coach that takes the Bulls from Point A to Point B again.

Also, maybe Pax could hire Stacey King and Pippen on as assistants.  Let them learn while Doug is head coach, then when it's time maybe one of them could take over or if there is another Championship level coach available, we get him to take the Bulls from Point B to Point C as Phil Jackson did.

A lot of this also hinges on what the Bulls do this summer with their pick, whether it be early 1st round or lottery.

Is this too crazy of an idea?  

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First - What kind of basketball team do we
want to become? - then pick a coach that can execute that vision.  

It seems to succeed in the NBA your team must excel at defense.  A great deal of our success the past few years came from playing excellent defense.  Last night our defense was a joke. Washington has improved their defense and are over-achieving.  The same could be said for New Orleans.  Our players are athletic, block shots and should have the capacity to learn to play great defense.  We also are a good running team that would fit with getting points from TOs.  

I do not know if Doug Collins can make this work.  First decide on a playing philosophy then pick a coach that fits that type of team.  

by chgobr on Mar 1, 2008 11:12 AM CST reply actions  

I agree....
I agree with the defensive part, which I posted on basketballboards.net that our defense has became worse since Boylan took over.

That to be successful, you have to be good on the defensive end of the floor.  Good examples is our past 3 years, we overachieved a lot with playing good defense.

I'm just trying to think of a coach that can come in and coach efficiently, help develop the young talent and be somewhat successful while they are here.  Collins has done a decent job in the past with younger teams such as the Bulls in the mid to late 80's, the Pistons in the mid to late 90's and then somewhat successful with the Wizards while he was there(as I stated, Michael had more control over things then).

I'm just trying to think of some possible candidates since we all pretty much know that Jerry doesn't want to break the bank for coaches like Carlise, Larry Brown or a Van Gundy.

I know Collins dowfall was his overreacting and the way losses brought him down so much.  But maybe he has matured since then.

I think for the team to be successful defensive wise, you need a head coach who does believe in that but you need a good assistant that can teach it, like Johnny Bach did for the Bulls.

Just like Boston did this season by bringing in their new assistant coach, that has helped them become better defensively.

Also, after last night's loss, I'm hoping Paxson realizes that Boylan is not the man for the job.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I keep repeating this but I truly believe Boylan
will not coach here next year, even if we sneak into the playoffs.

by chgobr on Mar 1, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

How about Spurs meet Suns (of old) Style?
I think its something that skiles tried to push with the bulls, and considering our current roster, it is something that can work. Basically playing hard defense, forcing turnovers, and running the break with those turnovers.

This will work considering;

-Hinrich is far more comfortable on the open court rather then running plays in the half court.

-Ben Gordon (in top form) can score many buckets off transition since there wont be enough time for someone to accurately guard him.

-Deng and Hughes are pretty decent slashers who can finish at the rim on a fast break

-All of our players are fairly well defenders and passers if nothing else.

-With our age, we have the young legs that can run with the best of them, Noah and thomas can use thier energy and intensity and create unstoppable dunks, while the only flaw would be aaron gray. This sort of style would also belittle the need for a traditonal post player.

-The older teams like Detroit and the Celtics probably wont be able to last long with our fast pace.

The biggest problem is finding some coach to make this work. The suns coach tried to establish this, this season, but the only one who was suited for this kind of play might have been marion, and things werent working out.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 3, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

It's all on Paxson.
This should be obvious, but this off-season is about Paxson and no one else. If he decides what the team should be and gets the right coaches (he won't, I know he won't), and also brings in developmental guys and makes the right player moves, the players will fall into place. If not, none of them will improve enough.

As Matt said: teams with great players can get by with a good coach. This Bulls team needs a great coach (and a great philosophy) to make it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 1, 2008 5:00 PM CST reply actions  

God no
Go read "When Nothing Else Matters," by Michael Leahy.  It's about Michael Jordan's Washington years (yes, I know we'd all like to forget those years, but it is a good book).  If you had any respect for Doug Collins as a coach, you won't after reading that book.

by Big D on Mar 1, 2008 5:22 PM CST reply actions  

Actually.......
I have read it.  The main thing I got from that is Collins was always trying to apease Jordan, which you have to remember was still Collins' boss at the time.

Jordan had total control over his playing time, other players playing time, etc.  So, that situation was the wrong situation for himself to be a part of during Jordan's return.

I'm not saying we should get Doug Collins, I'm just trying to think of coaches that have been somewhat successful at developing young teams.  He would definetly have to be replaced once the team has got to point B.

See, Skiles was originally that guy to get us to point B, we got to point A1 last season, but have taken the wrong turn back to point A this season.

The book is a good read and while we are at it, please read "Playing for Keeps: Michael Jordan and the World he Created." by Dave Halberstein, by far the best book on Jordan (and the Bulls) that I have ever read.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 1, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

We need a "next coach" permanent diary
to go along with the "draft" one.

Anyway, personally I'd like to see the Bulls get someone like Terry Porter rather than an older retread guy.  Someone who has had some head coaching experience to judge from, but is still young.  And I've always kind of thought he got screwed over by the Bucks.  (But I shuold also acknowledge that I'm a huge fan from his playing days, so I'm far from impartial!)

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 1, 2008 11:09 PM CST reply actions  

Actually........
not a bad choice, he did a good job while in Milwaukee and he did get screwed over.

We need somebody besides Boylan.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 2, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Terry Porter ain't bad either
I threw Mark Jackson out there because I was thinking of good PG's and his was the first I thought of.

Porter's got decent assistant coaching experience, he'd be on my list.

Pipp's my favorite player all time though, so while it makes sense maybe to give the job to someone who was a solid player with asst coaching experience, I'd like to see the Pippen experience over Porter....I just would.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

In terms of coaching
I think we need a "player's coach" after the somewhat dictatorial Skiles and Boylan.  And, while I think that we definitely need to get a good coach, why don't we get a former big man to tutor our young bigs?  The Lakers have Kareem who has done an excellent job with Bynum.  Is there anyone else we could get?

by jpchi on Mar 2, 2008 12:50 AM CST reply actions  

Sorry
the former big shouldn't be the coach, just an assistant.

by jpchi on Mar 2, 2008 12:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Rudy T
lets do it.

by Kemp @ Blog a Bull on Mar 2, 2008 2:48 AM CST reply actions  

Paul Weber and David Thorpe
Long shot to happen, so I'll stick with it so I have something to bitch about next year.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 2, 2008 7:58 AM CST reply actions  

I'm sure Jordan wouldn't coach the bulls...
but if he did, you think he'd be good at it...he's an obvious leader and the team would have real high expectations to live up to so maybe they'd try harder and practice more?  Before you go knocking me, I realize it's a crazy idea I just wanted to hear the what if thoughts.
And the starting line up for your world champion Chicago Bulls. . .

by AGBallinisaHabit on Mar 2, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions  

He'd be a terrible coach
Considering that he might have to spend less time on the golf course, and more time breaking down film.  He's been a lazy GM, and coaches work even harder.

by Big D on Mar 2, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

My top Bulls head coaching choices.....
  1.  Phil Johnson - asst, Utah
  2.  Bill Laimbeer - Head Coach, WNBA
  3.  Alvin Gentry - asst, Phoenix
  4.  Elston Turner - asst, Houston
  5.  Alex English - asst, Toronto
We need a talented and experienced assistant from a very successful organization.

Johnson has been an assistant to Jerry Sloan for 18 years at Utah, and he once coached Sloan as an assistant for Dick Motta on the Bulls in the early 70s.  He's widely recognized as one of the best teachers and best assistants in the game.  He'd come to the Bulls.

Laimbeer is 2-1 in the WNBA Finals in five years of coaching.  He'd immediately command respect in the locker room and huddle and he could teach our bigs a thing or two.  I can only assume his greatest influence is Chuck Daly.

The other guys are former players who have been working upward as successful assistants in solid organizations.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 2, 2008 5:31 PM CST reply actions  

Impressive
I'm amazed that anyone knows Laimbeer's record in the WNBA finals.

by paxson43 on Mar 3, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

it's about as relevant
as his record in the All-Star shooting stars competition

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 3, 2008 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude. He's a winner.
There's no denying that.
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 3, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions  

But did he come from a winning program?
I'm sure that's at least as relevant in a coach as it is in players...
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 3, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

he's a notre dame alum
Just like Pax.  But things I've read over the years have left me with the impression that Bill isn't a well loved alum, while Pax is.

by KT on Mar 3, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Forgive me for presenting....
....some REAL alternatives.

Doug Collins??  Bobby Knight??

Heck, my two top choices are Jerry Sloan and Coach K.  However, one of my major requirements for the next Bulls Head Coach is that he actually accepts the offer.

I don't want a college coach.  Coach K won't take the job, and Billy Donovan is legally unavailable.

I don't want a re-tread, either, unless it was for a short time in a place where the head coach wasn't enabled to win (like Terry Porter in Milwaukee or Alvin Gentry with the Clippers).

I'd consider a winning record as a coach in the WNBA Finals to be equally as impressive as winning a major NCAA Conference as head coach, as far as my wishes for the next Bulls leader - as long as it came along with playing in and winning NBA Finals.

Bill Laimbeer would command more respect when he stepped into the huddle than Jim Boyman ever HAD.

And had you ever even HEARD of Phil Johnson?  He's a great teacher, he comes from a great organization, and he used to coach for the Bulls.  I haven't seen any BETTER ideas thrown around this place yet.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 3, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

If not Hubie
What about Eddie Jordan?

He's done a great job with mediocre Washington Bullets talent.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Never heard of Johnson before today
but if he's been an assistant to Sloan for 18 years and even coached Sloan as a player, then the guy's probably a lifetime assistant.  Plus, I can't stand the overly physical style of play they preach in Utah, so I'd want to steer clear of that.

by snley on Mar 3, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

That'd be my only reservation....
...about the guy as well.  I don't want a career assistant either, but I do want someone from a successful organization who knows how to coach in the NBA.

But who can tell which assistant is the next Hall of Fame Head Coach (Phil Jackson) or a career assistant and mediocre Head Coach (Frank Hamblen)?

I hope Pax can tell, because I sure can't.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 3, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, we know one thing
Boylan is decidedly not the former!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 3, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

My greater concern is his age
Some guys go through coaching careers preferring the relative anonymity of being an assistant.  If Johnson's been around long enough to have coached Sloan as a player, chances are he's well past the point of saying, "Hey, I'm ready to be a head coach now."

by snley on Mar 3, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Laimbeer's done
a good job in the WNBA, but he with Reggie Miller, Isiah Thomas, and a few others rank as my least favorite players all time....

Plus the WNBA at best is like the 64th best team in college bball to me, so I wouldn't want to overstate his success....

Of course this coming from a guy who a) never watches the WNBA, and b) hates Bill Laimbeer--even if Laimbeer was coaching like Popovich, I'd still hate him....

so you can take that with a grain of salt

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Bobby Knight?
Pros: could be Ditka II for entertainment; definitely suited for a team full of young lotto players; closet full of red sweaters; instant Pax cred from winning college programs, discipline.
Cons: Bobby Knight

by California Al on Mar 3, 2008 10:53 AM CST reply actions  

No to Bobby Knight for me
The guy is like 70 yrs old for one, hasn't had major success in years (I know he was on Texas Tech, but his last few in Indiana weren't as good as his first many--even if Mike Davis took his team to the final 4)...

He's way too iritable, doesn't have any pro experience, and if we thought Skiles was tough on our guys, just imagine Bobby Knight.

Persoanlly, I'd love in this order my top 5:

  1. Hubie Brown--the guys points are spot on and he was awesome with Memphis.
  2. Jeff Van Gundy--he might be the best defensive coach in recent memory (yup even more so than Riley).  I know his offense can be limited, but I think a lot of that with the Rockets was due to JVG overcompensting for the slowness that is Yao while not allowing TMAC to be TMAC as much.  Plus the guy's got a solid NBA pedigree.
  3. Scottie Pippen.  I don't care that he has no head coaching experience, the guy was a "player coach" for a few years in Portland anyway.  His points/analysis also is spot on, and he's a Chicago Legend, what more could you ask for.  I'd rather see Scottie given a chance than Boylan again.  Hire Scottie as a Head coach, have Mark Jackson (smart player-judging that he was a lesser talent but awesome assist guy--PG) as a lead assistant, with maybe an Alonzo Mourning as lead big man coach.  These 3 major talents should help us out....I like having points as coaches too, and with Jackson we get an underrated (maybe slightly cheaper) one.
  4. Larry Brown.  I worry a bit with him, but I know he wants to succeed, and when he is actually coaching, there are few better.....Plus he's old, but so is Hubie and yet I have Hubie #1, go figure.
  5. John Paxson.  The guy also is a Chicago Bulls legend, he drafted these guys, he's been until this year a solid GM, and he knows what he saw in these guys in the first place.  So let's give him the duty to crack the code and fix the mess that is the Bulls.
We hae too much talent to be this mediocre.  We should be at worst nipping on a .500 record and at best maybe 5-10 games over .500 even with all the injuries.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I made reference to that
in my Larry Brown comment....

Hubie has that experience and is less volatile, but yeah he's ancient....oh well. I like him, what can I say.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

You know,
this is just a matter of personal preference/opinion, but I'd really hate to have any of those guys.
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 3, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

i have a hard time
wanting a guy who trashed a second year player (who didn't get that much pt) while defending how bad wallace was this season (or rather said we would have been able to stomach it if said second year player had developed more.. but whos fault is the lack of the development?  and still doesn't excuse wallace anyways).

i like jvg but i don't think he'd be right for our team.

i wouldn't mind giving scottie a try, though i prefer to get him on board as an assistant first.

larry brown - no thanks.  and not gonna happen.

and as for pax, i wouldn't mind seeing him take the reigns for the rest of the season, but i don't know if i'd like him doing both jobs.

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

whose
fault.  damn grammar.

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Good points
Yeah I don't know.....

Perhaps Hubie would think differently if he saw the day ins and day outs of this team more (and practices)....

But he's a proven coach, and a guy who's opinion I respect.

Facts are facts, Ben Wallace was a hard working blue collar type for 10+ years and so regardless of his lack of performance this year, he's had 10+ years of gaining respect to the guys who like folks who "play the game the way it's supposed to be played" to use that old cliche.

I don't take too much stake in Hubie's words as far as dropping him off the coaching list. He's a fabulous analyst.

JVG, you might be right on since he's always had solid big men to coach and that's what we lack, but why not give him a try, the VGundy's all have proven solid coaches and Jeff's had decent success in the past, plus he emphasizes Defense which is something our guys have the most natural talent for anyway, that's the reason I like him.

Paxson would be very interesting, and I might move him higher if I thought there was a chance he'd coach (i don't so he's 5th).  If he was going to give it a try, this season would have been his chance and he could say he'd coach while "auditioning" guys for the head spot later--to see if he like it.

Larry Brown, yeah I don't know about him.  He was fabulous in the Finals for Detroit though, so who knows.....I'm not the biggest fan, but I think he has enough experience to crack the code that is the Bulls.....and he seems more than interested.....he's as skilled a coach as anyone on this list, but has sooo much baggage.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

i dunno
it really just seemed like he threw tyrus under the bus.  i don't even hate wallace but to say that his performance could have been acceptable if an as yet unproven (and known project) 2nd year player, who has hardly gotten enough minutes to prove anything in the first place, was great is just unfair.  not to say that i don't think hubie is a good coach/analyst, because he is, but i really didn't like those comments, they just didn't sit well with me at all.

as for jvg, i just think this team needs to run and he hasn't proven to be that sort of coach.

and brown... well just way too much baggage.  also prone to leaving positions when he gets bored.  no thanks.  excellent coach, but i have no desire to see him on the bulls bench.

by Jaina on Mar 3, 2008 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

This is what I wanted.......
to see, who people thought should come in to coach this team next year. As most of us on here want to see Boylan gone and not as head coach next season.

I threw out Doug Collins name cause he has done decent jobs in the past with younger teams.  He isn't too old ala Hubie Brown (who I wouldn't mind to see) or a Larry Brown (which I don't think Jerry is going to pay for), he is older but still able to coach.  I could really care less if he gets it or not though.

I agree with most that if Pippen wants to coach, we should bring him in as an assistant with him maybe taking over in a few years like Avery did in Dallas.  I believe he would make a good coach but he does need to get some experience first.

Also, what better person to work with Tyrus, our long, freakishly athletic forward than a former long, freakishly athletic forward in Pippen.

We just need a big chance from Mr. "Skiles-lite" Jim Boylan.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 3, 2008 5:33 PM CST reply actions  

Hey
I thought I came up with the "Skiles-Lite" reference to Boylan.....a few weeks ago.  Good to see it in good use.

I imagine you meant change instead of chance.

by majoyenrac on Mar 3, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe..
you did, so I decided to use it.

And yes I meant change, sometimes you get to typing and don't pay attention to your mistakes.

Hopefully, Paxson is paying attention to his mistake of Boylan as the Coach.

by BullsAttitude on Mar 4, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Awesome
Sorry,

I was just surprised to see it used again, I think it's fitting!!!

by majoyenrac on Mar 4, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Boylan is probably
a better option than Doug Collins, but Boylan might be back as coach depending on Bulls performance during the next 23 games.  I don't believe Paxson has enough to base a judgement on the decision to get rid of him.  I don't believe making the playoffs are a determinant in his stay.  But if the Bulls can put together an impressive winning streak and make the playoffs, then Boylan will probably be back.

by exult463 on Mar 3, 2008 5:34 PM CST reply actions  

They can't
put together a three game winning streak let alone an impressive winning streak. I think Boylan is gone.

by sue369 on Mar 3, 2008 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Relatively speaking,
at this point a 3-game winning streak would be impressive for this team!
Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Mar 3, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Boylan
coming back would be tantamount to Isiah coming back last year for the Knicks.

by jpchi on Mar 3, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Paxson has seen enough
Haven't the last two games been more than enough to evaluate Boyman? Given the backdrop of his overall 14-20 record, huge losses to teams like Atlanta, and the team not being able to put up 70 against Minny let alone 80 against Charlotte?

In the past two games the Bulls have proved they have enough talent to compete.  They dominated the Whiz for the first half and they had the Eastern Conference Champs tied at 83 with 4:12 left in the game.

But then they come out and get totally outplayed in stretches of the game when I expect the coaching to make a difference.  When the Whiz open up the second half on a 22-1 run, that does not speak highly of the coach's halftime adjustments, let alone any motivational skills.  When the team scores 1 field goal in the last 6:55 of a previously-competitive game against the Cavs, they're being thoroughly out-coached.  Even worse, in the 20-7 run with which the Cavs closed out the last 7 minutes of the game, Lebron contributed 'only' eight of those points (which still would've been more than all of the Bulls, but wouldn't have won the game on its own).

If Paxson feels that he hasn't seen enough of Boyman to make a proper judgment, then I've seen more than enough of the Bulls for the remainder of the decade.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 3, 2008 8:25 PM CST reply actions  

Mike Dunleavy?
There's a whole saga going on between Sterling and Dunleavy, he may get axed in the offseason.  Dunleavy gets a lot of flak because of the Jailblazers and this current underperforming Clippers bunch, but he has been a quality head coach for years with NBA Finals experience.  Throw in Pippen on the staff(they were together in Portland) and that's a great coaching foundation that can actually work with the players and not treat them like college ballplayers.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 3, 2008 11:17 PM CST reply actions  

is his contract up though?
tough to see the famously frugal Clips owner pay a coach not to coach.

I'm honestly up for Dunleavy, even if he is a retread. After Boylan, I could use anyone with experience.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 3, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Collins hearts Hughes
For what it's worth, if the Bulls wind up keeping Larry this summer, it sounds like Doug Collins would be keen to be reunited with him.  

The article is a fairly pedestrian "Player X is a good guy" piece, but worth a read if you are curious about all of Larry's tats.

by paxson43 on Mar 5, 2008 3:16 PM CST reply actions  

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Rick Bonnell (Bobcats)
Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData


Other Resources:

HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 


Guy who does everything

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