Shaq traded for Marion
ESPN and The Miami Herald report that Shaq has been traded for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks
ESPN reported early Wednesday that the Heat has agreed to trade Shaquille O'Neal, the superstar center who arrived at the Miami Heat's doorstep in a diesel truck and then helped drive the team to an NBA championship, to the Phoenix Suns pending O'Neal passing a physical exam in Phoenix on Wednesday.The Heat is expected to receive forward Shawn Marion and guard Marcus Banks in exchange for O'Neal. ESPN's report followed a Miami Herald report that the Heat had informed O'Neal that a trade to Phoenix was a strong possibility.
If Shawn Marion opts out of his contract Miami will be under the cap and will be able to go after free agents.
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Frak the heck?
I just don't see what this accomplishes for the Suns but whatever. This whole season hasn't made any sense.
If the Timberwolves, Grizzlies and Heat have some concoction of the top 3 picks in the draft this year you know something shady is going on.
by CubFan81 on Feb 6, 2008 6:14 AM CST 0 recs
If Riley
by exult463 on Feb 6, 2008 6:45 AM CST 0 recs
I was just about to post the same
by chgobr on
Feb 6, 2008 7:57 AM CST
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Shaq
Big Ben might be the better player today making $5M less money, but Ben can't play offense at all (which is a knock against him with a heavy O team--even though us outsiders, myself included think having Big B on a heavy O team would work well, I'm not sure that's quite the route Phx wants to take).
Plus Phx will earn far more than the $20M they'll pay Shaq just to have Shaq come, they'll probably get a whole bunch of merchandising rev when the trade comes down.
On a business sense, this trade makes sense for Phx to a degree (if they part with Marion to Heat instead of Marion to the Bulls), but for both sakes, I think they should keep Marion or at least get a better trade for Marion in order to keep their championship hopes alive, because with Shaq, they'll fall pretty far down as they lose Marion (a key player) and replace him with a former great player who really needs to play in a half-court offense, and that's something Phx I don't believe is most equipped for.
Oh well......
The Bulls would have more enticing options, but I can see the want to bring in Shaq even old man Shaq on the business side, even if it might cripple the championship aspirations....Phx doesn't think it will and Riley the GM will end up with perhaps his best GM coup of them all (getting Shaq to Miami for a championship and then finding a way to deal his behemouth contract for a fabulous second option to tier with Wade. Add in the money from the expiring Zo, Davis, and JWill contracts, and the likely 1-5 pick they'll receive and voila, the Heat will be back up to the top again even possibly by next season (w/free agent pickups and Marion renewing). Imagine if they could grab Gilbert and have a Gilbert-Wade-Marion-Haslem big 4.....that would be incredible, I doubt Miami would have the strains of the luxury tax as much with this lineup....
by majoyenrac on
Feb 6, 2008 8:08 AM CST
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Bullshit
You guys are idiots for thinking Wallace is playing better than Shaq.
by tyger1147 on
Feb 6, 2008 8:35 AM CST
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Wallace
And Wallace's play decline is mostly motivation, unlike Shaq who's massive size has caused him to significantly slow.
Shaq can score, but he can't defend anymore, and his O prowess can be offset by his inability to run up and down the court.
Plus Wallace has slipped so significantly from last year and even the preseason that it has to be a mental issue with him....we've seen the Shaq slip for years.
And furthermore, with the Bulls we could offer a few nice assets alongside Big Ben for the same money and Phx would be better off.
Wallace can run the court if need be, and he will shore up the paint when on a contender (he was pretty solid last year once we got our heads out of our asses and we started to look like a ECF threat)....
by majoyenrac on
Feb 6, 2008 8:50 AM CST
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not very logical
by hscs on
Feb 6, 2008 8:35 AM CST
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yessir
Sorry Alec, Craig Hodges isn't walking through that door.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 10:55 AM CST
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That was pretty much
First, Pax fails in his attempt to land Garnett. Garnett goes for a lot less to the C's, making them instant contenders. Ok, fine.
Kobe asks to get traded to the Bulls, but Paxson is either not in a position to, or fails to, pull the trigger. The Lakers go on multiple winning streaks and the Bulls bottom out to start the season.
Pax then goes after Gasol and gets shut out. Gasol goes to the Lakers, making them an instant contender.
So fine--maybe we missed out on some great talents, but at least we've got company in the underachieving East, where the team we got Ben Wallace to combat (the Heat) is in last place in the entire NBA. And we may have overpaid for Big Ben, but at least he's not untradeable like Shaq. Right? Wrong.
This one proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt--Paxson lacks the ability to make a favorable deal in an environment when pretty much every other GM is making the deal they want.
Paxson, you're not bad at what you do; you just have... an inability... to do your job well...
by bullhockey on
Feb 6, 2008 2:51 PM CST
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What's
At least wallace could run the floor. He wouldn't give them offense but who says the Suns are hurting for offense? Isn't the knock against them a lack of toughness and defense. I would actually think Ben could give them a lot of valuable minutes next to Amare. Plus, the Suns probably could have received another nice piece in the deal.
This trade befuddles me.
by CookDing on Feb 6, 2008 8:30 AM CST 0 recs
no kidding (for the most part)
by hscs on
Feb 6, 2008 8:32 AM CST
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Plus the Suns are stuck with owing Shaq 20 mil for
by chgobr on
Feb 6, 2008 8:36 AM CST
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Well, now that's true.
by tyger1147 on
Feb 6, 2008 8:39 AM CST
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Wallace is better and cheaper
But Shaq? God almighty Crapson. Work the f'n phones. We weren't getting Amare, but we could get Marion for Wallace straight up.
by NBA Observer on
Feb 6, 2008 10:09 AM CST
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Wallace isn't better than Shaq
If Steve Kerr's logic (a stretch, I know) is that he needs a big body to move Amare to PF, then Wallace fits less.
Plus, Shaq is depressing to watch and hurt, but is still posting a PER over 18. Maybe they figure all it takes is a little motivation to get him magically less hurt. I believe the same would work for Wallace, but the max on Wallace is less than Shaq. Wallace is truly one of the worst contracts in the league. ugh.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 10:58 AM CST
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Not just PER.
ORtg and DRtg and WinShares and LossShares have Wallace ever-so-slightly better, but I don't have as much faith in those (or the magical Sports2 rating) as I do in PER or Unadj. +/-.
by tyger1147 on
Feb 6, 2008 11:14 AM CST
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I'm surprised anything rates higher with Wallace
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:22 AM CST
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or maybe I shouldn't be that surprised
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:24 AM CST
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Wallace's Ortg takes a crap once
by Scotter on
Feb 6, 2008 12:41 PM CST
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I'll give you credit though
I would've just said the hell with it and gave D'Antoni/Nash/Marion/Amare one more shot in this year's playoffs.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:01 AM CST
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Some Heat fan
Riley looks like a genius now. He dumps the biggest corpse. He frees cap space to sign a big FA. The Heat suck so they're almost guaranteed a top 3 pick to get Beasley. And they can re-sign Marion to a fat extension if they want to bust the cap anyway.
PG
Wade
Marion
Beasley
C
Yikes.
by NBA Observer on
Feb 6, 2008 11:23 AM CST
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hopefully they do
by bullshooter on
Feb 6, 2008 1:49 PM CST
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Kerr
by ScottieCartwright on Feb 6, 2008 8:44 AM CST 0 recs
This is a good summary of the problems
From Wojnarowski in Yahoo sports
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a title.
If he's willing trade to Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
by chgobr on Feb 6, 2008 9:09 AM CST 0 recs
Wallace vs. Shaq
Looks like a big risk to me, and it cements the Suns in luxury tax territory in 08-09 unless they get rid of Nash (whose contract is only partially guaranteed). On the other hand, it slightly helps their tax position this year and next, and 2 years away is a long way to worry about for an old team.
I think the bigger question is can they do better than Shaq?
I think Wallace might get them about the same kind of production (though more defense oriented) at a little over half the cost. If I'm John Paxson I'd be selling Steve Kerr really hard on that point anyway.
Just in general, it's pretty interesting how everyone is gearing up to do battle with the Celtics and now the Lakers. It gives a pretty clear idea of who wants to win and who doesn't give a shit.
By the way, Shaq and Wallace's total productivity rate out almost identically in my rating system. Shaq's comes from Scoring though while Wallace's comes from generating assists and offensive rebounds. They both rank out as 3rd tier, marginal starting quality guys. If I had to sell a ticket I'd probably take Shaq. If I had to win a game I'd take Pau Gasol.
by Sports2 on Feb 6, 2008 9:51 AM CST 0 recs
Kerr's
by exult463 on Feb 6, 2008 9:54 AM CST 0 recs
This may give Deng more contract leverage
by bullshooter on Feb 6, 2008 10:21 AM CST 0 recs
Would Marion and Deng be competing
by chgobr on
Feb 6, 2008 10:26 AM CST
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would you rather make a big money offer
by bullshooter on
Feb 6, 2008 10:32 AM CST
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If you felt you couldn't get Deng because
by chgobr on
Feb 6, 2008 10:57 AM CST
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To Hamstring the Bulls in the Long-Run
I'm going to post a diary on this because I worked out the numbers and they should be downright frightening for Bulls fans. I see a crisis coming.
by Sports2 on
Feb 6, 2008 11:30 AM CST
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I'd appreciate it
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:33 AM CST
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that was my first thought too
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 10:54 AM CST
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Marion would prove him self
by KT on
Feb 6, 2008 11:08 AM CST
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No one really knows how good he is without
by chgobr on
Feb 6, 2008 11:11 AM CST
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I wouldn't say that
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:14 AM CST
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guaranteed years are huge
He might get 4 or 5 mil less next year, but a bad year next year and he might get 1 or 2 mil less per year over five years, and maybe even a year or two less.
Players often opt out (I don't know how often, does anyone?) especially when there are teams who can spend.
by tyger1147 on
Feb 6, 2008 11:18 AM CST
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At 30
It's not like Marion has a history of missing games. He's Jordanesque in terms of staying healthy and taking care of his body.
by NBA Observer on
Feb 6, 2008 11:26 AM CST
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30 vs 31?
by KT on
Feb 6, 2008 11:39 AM CST
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I don't think there's any way
It doesn't take a gypsy to read the message in the Chicago/Memphis tea leaves. Teams are concerned about revenues. In the current environment, cap relief is more important than star players.
If this year's Wait-it-Out poster boys, Gordon and Deng, don't get big paydays, a lot of guys in their position will think twice about turning down guaranteed money.
by alec on
Feb 6, 2008 11:58 AM CST
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it was supposed to be the same climate last year
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 12:21 PM CST
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I'm also thinking about
It's a different environment from what it was 12 months ago.
by alec on
Feb 6, 2008 12:27 PM CST
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I'm not surprised you are thinking about that.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 12:29 PM CST
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The Heat have money to spend
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/54/biz_06rich400_Micky-Arison_OAU8.html
by Jobu on
Feb 6, 2008 12:49 PM CST
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Seriously though
If the Suns really wanted someone big to pair up against Gasol and the Lakers, Wallace coulda been had for cheaper! A Stoudamire/Wallace front court could defend the inside pretty well against a Gasol/Bynum front court
by Option27 on Feb 6, 2008 10:55 AM CST 0 recs
My head is spinning
1st - Some are saying that Kerr's primary motivation behind this was to block the Mavs from getting him. In the suddenly beefy Western Conf, a beast down low is what you need to survive. This is borderline Red Sox/Yankees where NOT letting the other team get him is equally/more so important then your team getting him.
2nd - This says a lot about Marion. He's been a malcontent for a couple years now with his trade requests and desire to be "The Man." Let me get this straight, he's one of the 12 highest paid players in the NBA, playing in the most fun system with the best PG, AND they've won 60+ games the past two years - and he's not happy? Hey Shawn: ask Joe Johnson what it's like to be "The Man."
3rd - this is another f'in coup for Riley. He sheds Shaq's bloated body, game, and contract. He can finally hand over the reigns to Wade as the face/undisputed leader of the franchise, and if Marion opts out this year, they have the room to sign Brand who wants to be there. He could also let it happen next year as Brand and Marion have the same contract details. They each can opt out at the end of this year, or let their contract expire after the 2008/09 season. The Heat currently have the worst record in the NBA, which I expect to improve with Marion, but they're still likely in the top 6. If they shut Wade down in mid-March, they'll be in full tanking mode in a great PG class.
4th - For the Suns, wow. What has Kerr done? What will the playoffs be like? How much space will Shaq create for the Suns incredible perimeter players? I don't believe he'll have to run up and down as much b/c the breaks are created out on the perimeter more often then not with steals and intercepted passes. Now, without Marion, they will likely have fewer. But if the Suns are running and trying to shoot within the first 5 seconds of the shot clock, I don't think Shaq will even pass half court very often and enable him to set up defensively.
5th - Lakers/Suns just got that much more interesting. I really hope they meet in the playoffs like the past two years.
6th - Paging John Paxson Hello John Paxson??
by Jobu on Feb 6, 2008 10:56 AM CST 0 recs
Instead of lamenting the lack of a trade...
by tyger1147 on Feb 6, 2008 11:10 AM CST 0 recs
Heat
An added bonus would be turning the franchise completely over to Wade and allowing him to be the unquestioned leader of the team. Something that would likely never occur in any locker room Shaq is a part of.
by Jobu on
Feb 6, 2008 11:21 AM CST
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re: leader
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:32 AM CST
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Can we get the Mavs to take Wallace now?
by Big D on Feb 6, 2008 11:33 AM CST 0 recs
not sure about that
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 11:39 AM CST
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Do it
for
Howard/Dampier
Works in the trade machine.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2429~885~181~2006&teams=6~6~4~4&te &cash
by NBA Observer on
Feb 6, 2008 11:45 AM CST
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Hahahaha!
Teams going for playoff pushes don't usually like to get worse.
by tyger1147 on
Feb 6, 2008 12:00 PM CST
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why?
by exult463 on
Feb 6, 2008 12:36 PM CST
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I gotta believe tyger
by alec on
Feb 6, 2008 12:40 PM CST
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Oh. If that means you were serious
by alec on
Feb 6, 2008 2:27 PM CST
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What does this mean for D'Antoni?
by snley on Feb 6, 2008 1:24 PM CST 0 recs
Amen, snley!
This way, Wallace would be using his relatively light frame (he is outweighed by SG Ron Artest, for example) to his advantage, rather than merely absorbing the wear and tear of the half court game from much larger centers day in and day out.
Basically, the only guys who wouldn't be runners/finishers would be Aaron Gray and Adrian Griffin, who I'm guessing are two of the slowest guys in the league.
by bullhockey on
Feb 6, 2008 3:07 PM CST
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Can't Nash opt out
by alec on
Feb 6, 2008 3:12 PM CST
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And another thing
by bullshooter on Feb 6, 2008 1:55 PM CST 0 recs
true
LeBron's going to the brooklyn nets, too :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Feb 6, 2008 2:32 PM CST
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yeah, it was a longshot
by bullshooter on
Feb 6, 2008 2:42 PM CST
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