Our big turd of a coach, part two

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 13, 2008 7:10 PM CST in News Comment 100 comments

Earlier in the week I made a passing comment towards Boylan's odd "earn your minutes, injured'uns" bullshit regarding the impending returns of Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng. I figured it was minor because I didn't believe he really meant it, and has shown not to have the authority to do anything of the sort.

However, while the latter two are out until after the all-star break (and Gordon won't start regardless, but that's a separate and-as we know-contentious issue), we did see exhibit-A returning Tuesday night: Kirk Hinrich.

So while Hinrich in 26 minutes had 15 points (albeit not the most efficient game), and Duhon had 5 points in 31 minutes, plus the mountain of evidence heavily suggesting that Duhon sucks, interim Boy(lan) says Kirk hasn't 'earned' his spot back yet, and will come off the bench against Miami on Thursday.

If only it was a case of Hinrich first proving he's healthy. For one, Duhon isn't fully healthy either (nursing a sore knee, and kudos to him for playing at all), and Hinrich's healthy enough to play and perform in his first game back, saying as much that he's ready to go and doesn't understand the benching.

Neither do I.

Neither does KC Johnson, who remarked on the radio (I don't recommend listening to the interview, it's especially heavy on Mike North meatball-isms) this morning how bizarre it is (and this was before he knew Hinrich would be benched Thursday as well) and how it's more fitting for a college team. And considering this is a team with Ben Wallace getting the minutes he does, it's insanely hypocritical.

I have no idea what impossibly low standards Pax had in his interview with Boylan when considering him for the interim job. It was an 'anybody but Skiles' directive, sure, but it looks like to the degree where as long as Boylan didn't take a steamy dump on Pax's desk, Pax figured Boylan 'earned' his spot.

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What has Boylan even done

to be considered for the head coaching job. Besides playing the vets which we all know will make the playoffs. SIKE

by eross226 on Feb 13, 2008 7:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

you mean psych?

they don't teach kids anything in schools anymore...

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 13, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Only in high school still

by eross226 on Feb 13, 2008 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

then hit the books

and quit wasting time on BaB... ;-)

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 13, 2008 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hilarious!

eross226, don't listen to alec. He's likely to hear the word "effigy" and think that it's somehow a forbidden word.

And also, there's this guy named Lt.Dan who thinks that Shaq is someone who can't be spoken about. Not even on a blog about basketball. Don't listen to him, either.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 14, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lt. Dan

Bullhockey, are you referring to this? . All he did was make a reference you didn't get.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I sure didn't get it.

If there's something more to the comment than the obvious Ben Wallace rip, then yeah, I guess I didn't get it.

It seems strange to me when people on a free bulletin board try to tell others what they should and shouldn't say. It's not the person running the site, just other users who say "Don't say the word 'effigy'". Or "You have no right to talk about Shaq." On a free, open blog.

But since you're the guy that runs the site, I guess I'll just ask you directly: what do you think of comments where people try to tell others what they should and shouldn't say? I mean, I hope you don't agree?

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 15, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my philosophy is

'just take it'.

If you're 'free' to say it, they're 'free' to call you out on it.

Of course 'free' is in quotes becuase I decide above all.

The joke was about Shaq responding to Bill Walton's criticism this week, saying it violated the big-man-pecking-order.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 15, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

Cool. Thanks... !

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 15, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This team blows.

Is there any team that has gone from such a bright future to such a bleak one in the span of a year? I'm sure there has been, but I'd like to see it. The only hope I have left is that Pax isn't a complete fucking retard, believes the team's future is in the young guys, is trying to get a trade for the asshats and is just doing his usual "I don't tell nobody nothin' cuz it hurts my feelings if they speculate" routine. I could take the ridiculousness if that were the case. Obviously, the playing time post-deadline will tell the tale. If Thomas and Noah aren't getting at least 25 minutes EVERY SINGLE GAME*, then we'll know the whole franchise sucks.

And someone once questioned why I drift in and out with my fanaticism.

*It should be at least 30, but I'll settle for 25 cuz they've beat me down to lower my expectations.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 13, 2008 7:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The thing is . .

They still all do have a promising and bright future.

They just don't know how to get it outta them.

Anyone that thinks Gordon, Deng or anyone else you wanna throw into the mix has reached their peak, they're nuts.

The Bulls have a great team in place to succeed in the future, they just need the proper direction.

There isn't anyone on this staff that can do that obviously

by Option27 on Feb 13, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm quickly losing faith in Paxson.

Not because of the trades or players drafted, but because of how this is playing out. The team only has a bright future if they shed anyone over 27 years old and get an offensive-minded, player-development coach.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 13, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

coaching

is a big problem, we have great rotation in the line-up, but I think the coaching staff could step it up a little bit

by Hendo g on Feb 18, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

conspiracy!

Boylan is lowering Hinrich's value before the 2012 extension negotiation surprises everyone. Or Hinrich doesn't want to start, because he's content with his contract.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 13, 2008 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Benching Hinrich

I think benching Hinrich for Duhon is one of the most perplexing things any team I have been a fan of has ever done. Not the dumbest thing, not the craziest thing, but simply the most mind-boggling thing I can remember. There is simply no point in benching Hinrich at this point. Do the people who manage the Bulls know that the team that scores the most points wins? Or that we have made Nocioni the first option on our team. Think about that. Noce, in the span of one year, has gone from our 4th option to our first. This is progress? When Du said Boylan was more of the same, I took it with a grain of salt. But now? Boylan must have been giving Skiles the worst advise in assistant coaching history.

This whole mess needs to land right on Paxson's door step. I challenge anyone, anyone to find one NBA person who believes Hinrich should back up Du. What a complete waste of a season.

by danger mouse on Feb 13, 2008 8:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

More perplexing

Than Tyrus' limited minutes?

by Option27 on Feb 13, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

because this doesn't even logically fit with his normal rhetoric.

by Kemp on Feb 14, 2008 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan's replacement

Not that we've had any trouble with them (surprisingly) but wouldn't having Larry Brown on the bench at least give us an advantage over Detroit, especially in a playoff series? Should we actually make a move and improve over the 2nd half and grab the 8 seed, who knows what they could accomplish with Brown against the Pistons...

If not then I say get Stacey King and hope they listen to a fellow brotha

by Ugh It Live! on Feb 13, 2008 9:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

no it wouldn't.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 13, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what's worse

Flippant racism, or Larry Brown as saviorism.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 13, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what's worse

It's interesting that you're always the first and usually ONLY person to find racism in a harmless comment....

Larry Brown likely wouldn't be a "savior" as you put it -
But he'd FAR better than Boylan.
At least the team would have a fighting chance to do SOMETHING...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Most of "us" aren't willing to settle...

...for something. They aren't the Sixers or Knicks we're talking about. This team has good, young talent and just doing "something" is shite.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 14, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just doing "something" is shite.

I agree...
But doing NOTHING is even worse.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I find it interesting that you're concerned over

someone calling out flippant racism.

If one is to choose between being overly sensitive or considering it 'harmless', stick with the former to be safe.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Safe?

Being overly sensitive is one THE main reasons why there even IS racism in this country...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bullshit like that

only passes on white supremacist message boards.

It's not worrying who might be offended, it's about respect. You're just going to have to deal with the hardship of dumb race jokes getting a wag of the finger.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 14, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So it's okay for YOU to accuse someone

of being a racist...
But how do YOU feel when someone accuses YOU of being one?

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bored

Call Rush to cry about it. There wasn't anything malicious about the original remark. All I did was note its dumbness.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 14, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's just what I thought

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 8:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't say Larry Brown

would give the Bulls an advantage over Detroit in the playoffs. I disagreed with it, and I'm not in favor of Boylan collecting another penny for coaching the Bulls. Larry Brown isn't going to play Joe Smith and Ben Wallace any less, and Reinsdorf isn't going to pay a contract breaking, egotistical guy like Brown.

I'm going to disapprove of the next comment that suggests the Bulls can't be coached by anyone other than a "fellow brotha." Avert your eyes if it's that upsetting.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 14, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He didn't say that

I'm unsure where you even got that.

Maybe if you ASKED instead of blindly accusing...?

Just a thought.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've got a new theory

and at the risk of coming off like Alec, I'll share it with you. The Bulls are tanking for ping pong balls. Pax has done his scouting and knows exactly who he is going to draft, and it's the second coming of Jordan. I'm not going to tell who it is because that would ruin the suspense and spoil the surprise. Suffice it to say, this kid is so good, he'll make you wonder why anybody fussed or foamed about TT.

Or Boylan might have lost his freaking mind. It's definitely one or the other, though.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 13, 2008 9:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

tanking

sadly seems like possibility

benching Kirk for Duh makes no sense, Kirk played fine, there is no way your captain PG loses his job when healthy to a worse player on a team with any sense unless they are trying to lose

by NY Chicago Fan on Feb 13, 2008 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pax's target is in the mid-round anyway

it's going to be Tyler freaking Hansbrough. Soooooo scrappy.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 13, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, you know it.

Scrappy.

Hard worker.

Major program.

Accustomed to winning. "Winner."

Marginally athletic.

Undersized.

Docile.

Once bled on the court, yet continued to play.

Will befriend Noc.

Votes with the majority.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 13, 2008 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And no one from UNC currently on roster...

I think Pax is going for the full set of players from "major programs that know how to win" - KU, Duke and UConn are on board, so he's only missing UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, etc. (And no offense intended to anyone's school I failed to mention.)

In fact, this is where all our suggested trade scenarios have gone wrong - we need to quit thinking basketball skills or position needs and just focus on pedigree. Du can still be traded because Pax is currently doubled up on Duke, so maybe Du for Afflalo (cross UCLA off list)!

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 14, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Previously, I had Thomas for Battier.

But how about Thomas for Randolph Morris? Or Rashad McCants? Maybe Thabo (really, what has Switzerland won?) for Sean May?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 14, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

About a dozen of

the last 15 grand slams, the last two americas cups (which the yankees can't stand so they now try to win it back in courts) :-)

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 15, 2008 3:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only remotely sensible explanation

is that it's partly a reaction to Kirk's comments the other day about how much easier he's got it playing next to Thabo.

I got shit for pointing that out, but those were not "innocuous" comments.

You generally don't hear players talking about how playing with certain teammates is better than playing with others for a good reason. It's not a good way to get on someone's good side. That's especially true when you're talking about guys in their contract years.

So perhaps seeing this poor behavior, Boylan decided to put poor, put-upon Kirk in his place.

I mean, it beats the hell out of me, but some form of punishment for that recent screw up (or perhaps something else we're not aware of?) is the only thing that even remotely makes sense. On the court he'd actually come around a bit from his crappy production for most of the year.

The juxtaposition of those quotes with his benching and last night's humiliation at the hands of Paul was pretty notable too. If you look at the sequence of things, you've got Kirk going out and dropping the "I play with midgets and do much better guarding PGs" excuse, sitting to start the game, and then giving it away over the last 6 minutes or so when Paul pretty much demolished him.

Now obviously Paul is a heck of a player, but Kirk was just saying how much better off he is defending short guys. And his claim to fame is he's supposed to be a heck of a defender. All-NBA second team. And he came out and sucked something fierce.

by Sports2 on Feb 13, 2008 9:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

consult the bones!

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Feb 13, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or tanking

I suppose that makes sense too :(

But if they're gonna tank, why have Smith out there that much? Or Noc? I mean, if we're full bore gonna tank, throw our boy D.Nichols out there. Or Tyrus at SF some more. And certainly we wouldn't want an Adrian Griffin a DNP last night if we were tanking. Or Thabo at PG?

I spose if I saw those things I'd think we were tanking. But I don't, so it just looks like a message being sent to Kirk to me.

And outside of those comments he made and his shitty finish to last night's game (which he already started on the bench) I don't see any reason for it. And that doesn't jell with me. Even bad decisions have some sort of reasoning behind them.

by Sports2 on Feb 13, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or it could just be that Boylan is stupid

Sometimes the simple answers are the best ones.

by Big D on Feb 13, 2008 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boylan is stupid

Ding ding ding....WINNER!

"now THAT's sum reel BASKETball right THERE I tell ya Pete..."

Zoikes...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Feb 14, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Am I the only one who believes that Boylan

may be mentally deficient?

There is no rhyme nor reason to his substitution patterns. He abandons lineups that are successful early in games. He stubbornly keeps ineffective lineups on the court. He maintains no consistency from game to game. Each game is its own miniature season, completely unrelated to what has come before and what will come after. His rotation is paradoxically both unpredictable and preordained. It's as if he concocts a unique rotation for each game based on match-up advantages that are invisible to the rest of humanity, then doggedly implements that rotation regardless of how the game is actually progressing.

I have no idea what is going on within the franchise, but this club is dysfunctional. It's infuriating.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 13, 2008 10:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it

I don't think much of him as a coach, but I don't expect he's literally a moron or anything.

Perceptions are always exaggerated. When things are going well, people overestimate how good the players are, and when things are going poorly, they underestimate.

I don't have much doubt that, unless there's something physically wrong with a player (like Wallace's rapid aging), they have the capability to return to their prior form. I think for guys like Hinrich it's mostly mental.

But at the same time, loosing can be cancerous. Losing tends to bread stupidity and bad decision-making.

by Sports2 on Feb 13, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Watching his post-game interviews

also makes me cringe.

He says the most ridiculous, indefensible things.

It's truly odd.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 13, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IMO

i think Boylan doesnt want to get on anybodys bad side or hurt there feelings. I know its good for a coach to relate to his players but but also make the best decisions for his team and not worry about what people say and if you do make a mistake own up to it.

by eross226 on Feb 13, 2008 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The easiest part of being a head coach...

...in any sport, really, is playing your best players. Well, most talented players. I wish the Bulls could at least get this part, right.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 13, 2008 11:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's like a big gimmick

"Hmmm... everyone else starts their best five guys. Let's have our best guys come off the bench. Yeah... that's the ticket! We'll trick the other team into playing their second stringers against our starters in the second quarter and we'll have a massive advantage!"

by Sports2 on Feb 13, 2008 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yet no one ever thinks

That while thier best guys are starting on the bench, the bench players, or rather that second string group, is going against the other teams best player...it probably doesnt hit them till the end of the game when they lose by 20...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 14, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Theses guys have minnow brains

in a big ocean, or it's just their way to decreetly tank the season?

by exult463 on Feb 13, 2008 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

To me, even more than Boylan's choices

of who he plays (and who he doesn't) this (http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop) is the main problem crippling the Bulls way towards success (and apparently may have been the problem those past few years).

They can't properly develop their young players (or at least the bigs).

Interview of an hornets'assistant :

Q: Tyson Chandler looks so much more assertive and sure of himself now.
A: [Assistant coach] Kenny Gattison has been doing an outstanding job with Tyson, working on his game. And he's a competitor. He's got a great heart -- just so competitive. You can ask him to do anything and he buys in totally.

Tyson is really comfortable with the coaching staff. In Chicago, his relationship with Scott Skiles was non-existent, and Tyson got a little timid. Byron [Scott] actually had to threaten to fine Tyson money to get him to try to score some more.

When he first came here, if he got an offensive rebound, he always wanted to pass it out. Byron told him to dunk, or go up hard to try and score. It was programmed into him not to make a move, not to score. It happened in a game once, and Byron jumped up and subbed for him, and told him that if he is under the hoop with the ball, he needs to dunk, no matter what happened in Chicago. "You better start trying to score this ball," he said. And his confidence started growing to the point that now he's a nice double double guy.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 14, 2008 7:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ok...what?

Chandler has performed marginally better in some categories (TS%), worse in others (BLK%), and about the same in most (TRB%, TOV). He played well for a year and then stagnated and looked like an absolute idiot throughout; he hooked the team for a big contract and then decided to lay a giant one right on the Bulls head for a season.

For all the blather about Tyson that goes on, all I remember is a guy who roamed on defense and was only valuable when he stumbled into a help block. He threw-up inept shots and got lost on offensive sets. Not only that, his minutes didn't substantially diminish between the pre-contract year and the post-contract year! Realistically, I think most BaBers are only asking for Ty and Noah to get the 27 minutes that Chandler was getting for his last two years with the Bulls.

The reality is that Tyrus and Noah consistently bust their asses every time they are on the court, not only that, they seem excited to play the game of basketball and stay in top shape. Chandler was a baby that wanted to be coddled and has now lucked into a coddling coach and a top 10 in the league talent.

Hindsight is 20/20 and we all now see that we would rather have Chandler's fugue than Wallace's moribundity; but the Chandler situation and the Boylan situation are unattached, so leave them as such.

by Kemp on Feb 14, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Try reading my post again...

and let's see if you understand what I'm saying the second time.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 14, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I must have missed

the two pages you didn't write, because you do in fact say that "they" can't develop their bigs, when the Bulls built Chandler up to a guy who was doing essentially the same things Per 36 that he has the last two years, which largely exonerates Skiles; and while in most cases, the vilification of Skiles is on point, the Chandler situation is a finicky one because it just isn't accurate when paralleled with Noah and Thomas.

And don't pretend that you didn't parallel them, because you did insinuate that these same developmental problems are the same as those of our current bigs, which they aren't; Chandler played to a point and then proceeded to make a marked decline, Noah and Tyrus just aren't playing minutes.

I will clarify my original point, unless the Hornets reveal a newly tooled offensive powerhouse in Chandler I cannot buy into what you are trying to sell. Chandler's demeanor is indicative of what a lot of older players (Scottie Pippen, Ron Harper, and Hakeem for instance) decry. Moreover, if Chandler had been traded to the Spurs, Jazz, or Heat, would their coaches have been lambasted had he failed? I think not.

by Kemp on Feb 14, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like NBAObserver said...

To your credit, I should have added (it obviously wasn't obvious enough) that "developing" for me should also include "put the players in the best position to succeed whatever their character (not everybody is the same, some players are less outspoken than Noah) or qualities/talent".

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Feb 14, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

chandler

whats your beef with chandler. He is obviously playing much better. For one he can stay in games because he doesnt foul as much. He also seems to have found a way to catch all those alley oops that chris paul throws him. He is averaging a double-double. Say what you want but the guy has obviously come into his own with the Hornets. So what if he has a lower shot blocking percentage? I imagine thats probably also because he doesnt have any other big in the paint that are intimidating. He is still a strong presence inside. And he is a much stronger of and offensive presence as of late.

As for the idea that the bulls can't develop their bigs, I am not so sure. Lots of bigs in this league become marginal players or fail, even lottery picks. Maybe they just drafted wrong or they are bringing in thomas slowly. Who knows but its messed up.

by Sambossanova on Feb 14, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not about Chandler

It's about our coaching staff. Skiles, probably through Ron Adams, was teaching Tyson to get rebounds and reset the offense. This slows the game, keeps the scores manageable, and allows a defense oriented team to win games.

This strategy was a product of producing with what you have on your roster. The problem was that the strategy never changed when the roster started to change. The staff made little adjustments with new players and our former players were carrying the coaching with them to their new clubs.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What the heck is with our team rules?

KC Johnson's Trib story today.

"I want to try to be fair to the team," Boylan said. "I don't want to do one thing with one guy and another thing with another guy. I'm just trying to be consistent. That's not always easy to do.

"Let's face it: There are different players. You try to have your team rules. Everybody knows them."

Deng said he had been informed of the team rule. Hinrich, speaking after practice, said he didn't know why he wasn't starting. Boylan said he would talk to Hinrich.

Are the team rules on paper anywhere? We've had a no headband rule, a no corn rows rule, and now an "earn your starting spot back when injured in a game" rule?

Shoot me now.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 9:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

link

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 14, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

link

NBAObserver, I won't be so nice next time!

Here's another gem from that article.

"This is just one I'm putting down right here: If you're out for an extended period of time, you need to work your way back into the lineup," Boylan said after Wednesday's practice.

"I have all the confidence that Kirk and [Luol Deng] and Ben [Gordon] will do that. Our guys just all need to be willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the team."

Translated: This rule is as much to put Deng and Gordon on notice as it is to reward Chris Duhon and Thabo Sefolosha for playing through nagging injuries.

hoooooly crap, this guy is so overmatched for this job.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand

coming off the bench if the player's minutes need to be monitored. for instance, maybe deng should have come off the bench a couple more games to prevent boylan from playing him 40+ minutes on a strained achilles. maybe coming off the bench one time for hinrich was appropriate to make sure he was fine.

but to have hinrich come off the bench again tonight is a joke.

by Jaina on Feb 14, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beyond just not agreeing with the concept

in general, I'm not quite sure how Boylan considers 3 games "an extended period of time" to be out, particularly after Kirk could have played on Saturday and the team decided against it. Roughly a week hardly seems like an excessive period of time to be out with bruised ribs. All injuries are hardly equal.

Lu's situation is obviously different, because of the length of time he's out, yet he also seems to be sitting with the full blessing of the team wanting him healthy down the stretch and knowing that rest is the only option to get there. So that leaves a policy that comes across as punitive for missing games with injury, even when you sit with the injury at the team's direction (or at a minimum with it's agreement). The only other guy out is BG, and since Boylan already has him on the bench this "team rule" doesn't apply. And that leaves a punitive rule that punishes people for not doing anything wrong?

Maybe I'll take up hockey.

by wjb1492 on Feb 14, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i think its time to reconvene the caucus

team rules say what a-drain wants, a-drain gets.

by Mike C on Feb 14, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

other rules

-it's ok to be late
-player vote

I used to love this team now I jut can't bear to watch them.

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 14, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's like the Bulls are a crumbling Soviet state

Most of the country is already moving on, grabbing whatever they can get their hands on, and the players(Communist party) are still making rules as if they can regulate chaos.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I take back what I said above

Boylan's just an assclown. Wow. I'm pretty much speachless.

by Sports2 on Feb 14, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

love the

Mike North link!!

I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith

by tyrus4prez on Feb 14, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I Love David Thorpe

"Pop quiz: In a recent game, a second-year player had a huge fourth-quarter performance to help his team win a big contest on the road, at the expense of a rookie who watched it all from the bench. At game's end, who was the first player off the bench to enthusiastically embrace the second-year player? If it surprises you that it was Noah who raced to hug Tyrus Thomas, you have not been paying attention. It was a small moment in time, but that's the stuff that champions are grown from."

From Here

by Option27 on Feb 14, 2008 10:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

that may be the most high-reaching

Noah-love I've seen, haha.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If only Thorpe

was an assistant on the Bulls or something of the sort.

Maybe he could give out some knowledge to the coaches that are keeping this squad down

by Option27 on Feb 14, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Phil Weber + David Thorpe = ???

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 14, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In a recent chat

Thorpe said that he's working on something that would get him involved with some Bulls over the summer. Didn't mention names or what he was doing though.

by upther on Feb 14, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Love this Thorpe Q and A

Bubbles (nyc): Coach, let's say Stephon Marbury walked into your gym over the summer and told you he wanted to get his game back. What would you do?

David Thorpe: Send him to someone who has the time to devote his entire summer to one guy.

Thorpe sounds like a straight shooter.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

GSW has won 5 of their last 6

How the Bulls go into the WC and defeat a playoff team in GSW, shorthanded, and then come back home and put up a stinker BY PLAYING THE STAR OF THE GSW GAME 8 minutes is insanity.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is KC Johnson a Tyrus Thomas fan?

He's telling Mike North he had "no problems" with Boylan's substitution pattern in the Hornets game.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 10:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

KC's a Ben Wallace fan

and has said in the past that it's always good to 'trust your veterans'.

So that's all we need to know about KC and his opinion on minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, but a Ben Wallace fan like me

Ergo, play him when you have to play him because the matchups dictate it. But sit him when they don't.

Also, when facing questions about Ben Wallace posed by Mike North it is almost impossible to not come off sounding like a Ben Wallace fan. Just answering the question makes you a fan because North hates the guy so much.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wallace=frustration

i went to school in Michigan during the emergence of the pistons that started in the 2001-2002 season. the main reason the pistons took off that year was ben wallace. he was dominating in detroit, teams couldnt handle him, and once he teamed up with the other wallace, the pistons were unstoppable. i was stuck watching pistons games, it wasnt too great, but to watch the path they took from being a decent playoff team to a title winner was pretty cool. thats why i was so excited when pax signed him a year and a half ago. now wallace is a joke, and its basically because he is uninspired. he doesnt give a shit out there. thats why i have gone from being a huge ben wallace fan, even though he was with the hated pistons, to hating ben wallace even though he plays for the team i love. it sucks.
and this is why boylan needs to go after this season. he cant handle it, its obvious. he is so scared of wallace its gotten to be kind of funny, except its not fucking funny. boylan could be a fairly good college coach, but he is not made for the nba. coaches in the association HAVE to have mental toughness and cant let themselves be intimidated by his own team. say what you will about skiles, but you knew there was no way he was going to let the team run the team. i just dont see that in boylan.

by Conor on Feb 14, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps...

this "team policy" may end up being a blessing in disguise when Ben has-already-hit-his-Wallace inevitably gets injured again and Tyrus will take over the world?!

by DALIBOR TARLAC on Feb 14, 2008 10:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

All Boylan

is doing is proving he does not belong. He's in way over his head. He has no clue how to coach an NBA team. Paxson needs to step in and get this thing under control. Its one thing to not play the young guns (mainly because you think the vets are going to secure you a job) talk about agenda issues. This guys a walking hipocrit. I wish he would just go away and take BW, C-DOO, AG, with him.

I would also like to point out that we do not need BG. I think he ruins any flow this team has. I like him, he's a great shooter but its just not worth it. Basketball is a team sport.

by Bulls4Ever on Feb 14, 2008 10:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

with you on Boylan, Ben(ch) wallace and BG! Spot on, man!

I vote for you to be GM or coach or SOMETHING!
(This MAY just be a symptom om my desperation... )
How busy are you in your job? :)

Let's have a BaB-vote and send it to Pax, or better yet: Go straight to Jerry!

by Bass on Feb 14, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or Better Yet!!

Go straight to Adrian Griffen, we all know hes calling all the shots now...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Feb 14, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Boylan accusing them of faking injuries?

That's the only rational explanation for a "you lose your starting spot when you get injured" rule. Well, either that or Boylan is a moron. That's probably it, but the only way to give him the benefit of the doubt is if you think Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon are all faking/exaggerating their injuries. I know some people have suggested that, but I honestly don't think they are.

by Big D on Feb 14, 2008 11:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich

I don't know what is going on with Deng and Gordon, but Hinrich doesn't seem to be milking his injury. Considering how shallow we are with guards he should be starting with Thabo. For sanity sake, at least. I'd rather see a gimpy Hinrich out there than a gimpy Duhon. Especially since Hinrich's shot seems to be falling again.

by cranscape on Feb 14, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe this will start a trend

Maybe when Kevin Garnett comes back from his injury, the Celtics will make him come off the bench and earn his spot back. How dare that pussy get injured!

by Big D on Feb 14, 2008 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I wonder what would've happened

in Sacramento if when Martin, Artest, and Bibby came back they were told they would be benched until they proved themselves starterworthy (word?)?! I can't take this idiot anymore. Yes Salmons and Garcia were playing great in their absence but you best players are just that, your best players. Boylan is a joke.

2008 - The Year of The Comeback... NOT!

by Goostafer on Feb 14, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think these guys

did come off the bench for the first few games back after missing extensive action.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally different

Hinrich missing three games isn't the same as Bibby missing the first 36 or Artest 10+ games.

Either way, I think everyone here agrees this "earning your spot back" is bullshit

by Jobu on Feb 14, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And this fact

The Kings were playing beyond expectations without Artest, Bibby, and Martin. They were playing solid basketball.

The Bulls? Meh, not so much.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

right, he's starting Chris Duhon

if that's the result, it's a bad idea.

the sub-headline in that Boylan trib article was "Coach rewards Duhon, Sefolosha for solid play".

Jeez.

I thought Duhon would be in Europe by now. But he's managed to seduce two coaches, so maybe he'll just have this improbably long Eric Snow type career based off of being willing to play defense and be a coaches pet.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 14, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Another bullet to put in the holster of objecting to Larry Brown as the next coach. After all, Eric Snow owes his career to Brown. Does anyone really want to see Duhon starting for the 2 years Brown would inevitably stay?

by snley on Feb 14, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe this is why Hinrich is out

He's part of a secret deal!

From Chad Ford's current chat on espn.com

Chris, Florida: Chad, is Paxson's phone broken? Did he forget to pay the bill? Why can't the Bulls get in on any of these crazy stupid deals?

SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:18 PM ET ) You have, on one hand, a very conservative GM in Paxson. He's not a risk taker. Second, the guys he's offering are players that no one really wants -- ie. Ben Wallace. I just don't think he's really ready to pull the plug on this team. If he throws Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah into the conversation -- he'll get interest. One player to watch is Kirk Hinrich. I'm beginning to hear that they may be open to dealing him ...the biggest problem is that Hinrich is a base year player ... which means he's much more difficult to trade. Also remember that the Bulls can do a sign-and-trade with P. J. Brown to help make a deal work. I wonder if they're the team that should be going after Kidd. Offering Hinrich, Wallace and perhaps one more piece might make things doable for NJ.

by Jobu on Feb 14, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

That was my question. Didn't actually expect it to get answered.

by upther on Feb 14, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

KIDD

Is the last thing the Bulls need.

He would work for a team already championship caliber

by Option27 on Feb 14, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

JKidd

Jason Kidd is a wife beater and, in my opinion, an all-around lousy person. But, if this deal with the Mavs falls apart, I would be interested to know if the Nets would take Wallace and BG for Kidd. They have already had Kidd's funeral in NJ so they cannot realistically have him back on the team unless Rod Thorn wants to look like a complete clown. The Bulls lose their worst player and a (now) bench player who has an inflated sense of worth. Kidd becomes very tradable this summer, too.

by Stay Chisel on Feb 14, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

RE: JKidd

I thought we were done with petulant, former All Stars past their prime? :)

Aside from that, what happens when Kidd doesn't get the massive extension that most writers believe he's looking for? What would he be like on this team? Maybe even worse than Wallace.

But, for the sake of argument, I'll play along. If we're truly going to purge this team, let's call our old pal Rod Thorn with this deal and call it a day!

by Jobu on Feb 14, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's still good though

He is still the same perimeter rebounding, fast break starting, run, jump, and pass point guard. He needs running youth around him to be effective(Thomas, Thabo, Noah).

I doubt Kidd would want to be traded to the current Chicago team.

by NBA Observer on Feb 14, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He also has a FG% very similar to

Ben Wallace's

by Scotter on Feb 14, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

... and Chris Duhon's. And Duhon is our starting PG.

A Kidd-Wallace deal is farfetched and does not help the team other than to get rid of Wallace, which may be the best we can hope for this year. What I'm really saying is that if the Dallas deal falls apart NJ is going to be desperate.

by Stay Chisel on Feb 14, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs