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Bucks 97, Bulls 90: Maybe in 6 more games Vinny will realize Nocioni is giving him nothing

Before what I think is the main point of this game, some other call-outs of bad:

Gooden put in his second straight stinker (1-11 from the field), and his shot selection still has me thinking he really thinks he can do it all. The offense in general was no good at the start, a lot like the night before: Gooden and Gordon forcing shots, and Rose with a sloppy floor game (5 TOs overall), and Rose wasn't hitting jumpers tonight either. The frontcourt did a poor job of securing defensive rebounds, letting former PER-hero Dan Gadzuric get 7 offensive boards in 21 minutes.

The good was pretty much Luol Deng, who looked a lot more active on offense. And Larry Hughes, who was 4-8 from the field and only a couple were the typical awful Larry shots. I have no expectations for him, but I have to say he hasn't been absolutely terrible. He still offers nothing outside of volume shooting, so even when shots go in he's not doing that much...but it's better than the alternative. If he's going to play 24-ish minutes and be like this, maybe he'll regain some value before he gets sick of pretending he's ok as a role player and tries to kill the team from the inside.

On to Nocioni, whose trade value is plummeting to the point where an expiring contract with no working limbs would be fantastic return. There's nearly 4 more years of this, everyone!

But in Noc's defense, he's doing a great job showing very plainly that he just doesn't have it. It's on Vinny to pick up on that not-so-subtle cue. Instead he left Nocioni in for two disastrous stints:

First half:
Enter the Noc: 23-20 Bucks, 10:31 2nd quarter (Richard Jefferson enters as well)
Exit the Noc: 48-35 Bucks, 2:51 2nd quarter
Noc? 7:40 min, 3 Fouls, 0-0FG, 1Reb. Jefferson scores 10 points

Second half:
Enter the Noc!: Start of the 4th quarter, 76-72 Bucks
Exit the Noc, with clenched fists: 87-75 Bucks 7:32 4th quarter
Noc's hair? 4:28 min, 0-1FG, 1pt, 2 TOs

This is a guy who's given the team nothing the past several games, so Vinny should've been going for the hook at the first sign of awful. That first half stint was especially bad, as Vinny's next move after putting in Noc at the 3 was leaving him in as Deng returned and shifting him to the 4, first paired with Gooden and then Gray. (as a reminder: always a bad idea). In comparison, by this same time in the game Tyrus only had a bit over 5 minutes after one of his best games of the year. (VDN made a similarly odd decision in the 2nd half: after Noc put them in that big hole he went small...with Gray as the lone big man. Why?)

It was only 12 minutes, but a disastrous dozen for Nocioni. He really doesn't have to play at all. Thabo could be re-introduced to professional basketball (3 minutes against the Spurs followed by 3 DNPs), Larry (ugh, I know) could be at the 3 against smaller lineups, Tyrus/Noah/Gooden/Gray can handle nearly all the minutes at the 4 and 5. Granted, the Bulls weren't ahead when Noc entered the game either, because those aforementioned frontcourt guys like Gooden and Noah weren't offering much...but Noc was not only not offering anything, but actively taking away.

For the time being, he shouldn't see the court. Make up a leg injury or something, it's likely not that far from the truth.

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yikes

glad i missed this one

Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.

-- Scottie Pippen

by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 3, 2008 11:04 PM CST   0 recs

There’s nearly 4 more years of this, everyone!

^
Man…I was looking for hope..not a reason to jump of a bridge

:::thinks about it::::

::::looks at bridge:::

::::nose-dive::::

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 3, 2008 11:12 PM CST   0 recs

Can you stop with the dumbass hyperbolic remarks?

Damn dude, your comments suck ass. I know mine aren’t great, but you offer no insight or personal opinion; just a bunch of colons with actions in between them.

You remind me of Colossus.

by NittanyCub on Dec 4, 2008 1:10 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Get of my ballsack buddy

That’s why its called my comments. Create your own blog if you feel froggy

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 4, 2008 1:57 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

::::::thinks about it:::::::::

::::::looks at bridge:::::::

::::::::throws you in:::::

LOLZ!!!! Everyone laugh with me!

by NittanyCub on Dec 4, 2008 1:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

smh

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 4, 2008 1:59 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jesus...

NittanyCub, you havin a bad day?

It’s not that hard to skip over reading a comment.

by kidronmusic on Dec 4, 2008 3:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i missed the game

due to lack of sleep from early-morning procrastination.

is Noc like the Bulls’ version of Rex Grossman now? he had good games and now he has suck games.

"Gooden for three..." *spit-take* WAIT...Did tha- did he really...

by chibullsfan03 on Dec 3, 2008 11:36 PM CST   0 recs

I think Rex Grossman plays a different sport

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 3, 2008 11:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

now that was just

mean. mean manblogger

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 3, 2008 11:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

well... yea..

i meant in that there was Good Rex/Bad Rex

And now we (sort-of) have Good Noc/Suck Noc. Except Noc had his decent games before the trip, and now his sucky games have come as of late.

meh maybe i should go back to sleep.

"Gooden for three..." *spit-take* WAIT...Did tha- did he really...

by chibullsfan03 on Dec 4, 2008 7:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Isnt Kirk Hinrich The Grossman of Basketball?

Thats the only reason im a fan of grossman (im joking by the way, i dont watch football)

On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....

by piccolomair on Dec 4, 2008 12:00 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think to be the rex of the nba you..

gotta be :
1. with a team for a while
2. go to the championship and blow it
3. piss off everyone on your city
4. Coach still has your back
5. Have multiple “comebacks” as a starter
6. overated is an understatement

dunno, anyone in the nba that fits that..maybe Kwame Brown

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 4, 2008 12:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

If Kobe Bryant

had the talent of JamesOn Curry.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Dec 4, 2008 12:58 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

No.

Man, the Lakers should really make that trade. They would have the best Christmas celebrations!
It’s worth it!

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Dec 6, 2008 12:56 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

good call

"That’s the reason why you are on the court—to take someone’s heart." - Air Force One

by Belize on Dec 4, 2008 1:57 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

no, not at all

nowitski is um, like, um, good at the sport he plays

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Dec 4, 2008 8:42 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

right, this is why I get angry-faced at inter-sport comparisons

I’d rather limit this discussion to illuminating what people don’t know about basketball, not football as well.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2008 9:43 AM CST to parent up   1 recs

yea. sorry i started this stupid comparrison

I’ll keep it to basketball.

"Gooden for three..." *spit-take* WAIT...Did tha- did he really...

by chibullsfan03 on Dec 4, 2008 1:58 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jeez you're like the Bill Parcells of blogfathers

"It never is, because I'm the Shogun. And before you get to the Shogun, you gotta go through a lot of ninjas."

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 4, 2008 3:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sort of

Grossman is almost ineffective all the time because of his nature. He’s 6’0" with a low release so he can put velocity on his passes. That’s the way it is for him, but it’s awful to utilize in the NFL without extreme mobility because the lineman are 6’4" with 7’ reaches.

Noc is different in that there are players and positions where he is highly effective and then there are players and positions where he is highly ineffective. Richard Jefferson as the 3 is one of the highly ineffective situations for Noc. Jefferson is a free throw beggar with poor shot selection. You put a defender on him that will make him take jump shots and will take away the penetration(Thabo? DNP-CD, suck it Vinny). With Noc guarding Jefferson it’s a free for all penetration festival that might as well be filmed in the San Fernando Valley. There was so much penetration the game should have been rated X.

On offense it just got worse. Skiles know the Noc dribble penetration weaknesses. He doesn’t have enough control on drives to secure the ball. Get some hands down there and you can tip it away. Ditto with Deng. The two of them get into the paint with the basketball a foot away from their chest. They have to enter the paint like running backs securing the football and then elevate to get the shot up. They’ll either get the shot or get fouled, but as long as that ball is being held like a stinky diaper away from their body the defense has far too great of an opportunity for finger tip steals.

This was so bad it made Jefferson, Redd, and Villanueva look like stellar defenders. Please ignore the fact that our players were driving past them at will and getting almost nothing from it.

In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2008 12:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

noah, noc, and gray...

all three of them really don’t look like anything more than garbage time players right now. noc must be injured. since they have him for 4 years, there’s no sense in killing him now. just shut him down and see if he gets better. as for our two centers, gray was never an nba-level talent, and noah is making me wish the bulls took hawes…

by smegmatic on Dec 3, 2008 11:37 PM CST   0 recs

I was looking at the box score

why didn’t Noah get a chance to come back in? 9 minutes 5 rebounds and 2 blocks doesn’t seem that bad. IS he really THAT out of shape? If he is, why don’t they have him riding a bike or some shit on the sidelines.

by silentpete on Dec 3, 2008 11:46 PM CST   0 recs

i keep wondering these things myself

i havent seen the past two games, but i keep seeing these numbers for noah like 15 mins 7 boards 1 block 1 steal. i mean, has he been that bad on offense? (not being sarcastic, but that’s a legit question. haven’t seen a whole lot of the bulls in the past 4 or 5 games or so. from the sounds of things, it seems as though i’ve saved myself a lot of torture).

by Calogero on Dec 3, 2008 11:54 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

he's been bad on offense

but given the alternatives, so what…

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2008 12:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

everyone gets so worried about each players offensive production. let rose score and distribute.

let bg get his. everyone else can take turns. the bulls cannot continue to give up offensive rebounds like this. dan gadzuric? come on!! he’s tyrus thomas ultra light. how do you not keep thomas out there to prevent just what happened?

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 2:32 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Vinny is an idiot

The Bucks owned us on the glass in the 3rd quarter despite Ben’s 7-8 shooting. They had 12. We had 6.

Later the Bucks attacked Aaron Gray 4 possessions in a row WITH LUKE F’N RIDNOUR. They ran Gray off the high screen and just killed us. Gray was too slow to protect and too slow to recover. That’s his weakness. I wonder if Skiles knows his former players’ weaknesses.

Vinny got outcoached by a guy that’s been fired twice for the same reasons.

In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

He did get oucoached, but it seems as if outcoaching Vinny is not that tough

We all obviously have our own prefered lineups…. But all I ask for is for VDN to keep it consistent. I don’t care who he thinks the best lineup is. Just keep it consistent! Im always looking to see who’s gonna be out there at any given time. That’s not how it should be.

by scottie33 on Dec 4, 2008 1:15 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Let's hire Sam Mitchell

Just to see what can be done with NORMAL coach and Normal rotations.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 3, 2008 11:57 PM CST   0 recs

He was coach of the year just to yeras ago.

Maybe he lost something but he is ain’t joke,IMHO.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I think Sam's had similar issues

Vinny could have normal rotations with a more normal roster…however this overcommitment to Noc that’s flying in the face of what everyone sees happening, it’s a problem.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2008 12:03 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I haven't watched for a couple of weeks...

….but if the tone around there—the seeming fact that there is virtually no one supporting him anymore—he must be horrible.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Dec 4, 2008 8:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Well yeah

Nocioni’s had the worst stretch of his career by a long shot….even the hobbled and awful Noc of the playoffs a few years ago was more effective.

I don’t get it. I don’t know what else to say. One of the biggest Noc supporters (me) who while I never would say he was a great player—homerisms aside, I did always like the little things he brought….he doesn’t deserve a spot right now on a 12 man roster with the garbage he’s thrown up the last 5 games at least….it’s a real shocker.

Even folks who were down on him for his contract which was bad because we knew we were going to keep Deng…..nobody would expect him to be this bad of late….

I hope he gets out of the funk. He always wore his heart on his sleeve and played hard, and now he just looks mad all the time, frustrated and like he doesn’t want to be a Bull….

by majoyenrac on Dec 4, 2008 12:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Noc's net +/- per 100 pos

Is still by far the best on the team so I refuse to believe he’s the biggest problem for us. Him being played out of position and the team often playing without a center and way too many minutes given to Gooden and Hughes. Those are problems. Caused by Our Beloved Rookie Coach.

Nocioni +16,5
Hinrich +11,8
Noah +3,0
HUnter +0,6
Deng -0,1
Gordon -0,9
Hughes -2,3
Gray -3,4
Thabo -3,8
Thomas -4,9
Gooden -9,8
Rose -12,8

Our “Coach” should start by always having a center on the court. That means either Noah (preferably), or Gray (by default, the only other center on the team…)

by BAB-Bass on Dec 5, 2008 9:39 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yeah, well

maybe we can officially kill that stat.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

BAB

I’d hope you’re right…..but from what I have seen the past 10-11 games, I agree with Matt and I’ve been one of the biggest Noc supporters there is out there….he’s still amongst my favorite players in this league (mainly because he can and has played very very well despite not posessing much natural talent and because he plays hard)….but this stretch is completely inexcusable.

Our coach needs a Center on the court, but first our Coach needs to have a Center who can play….we don’t have that, not the Coach’s fault at all. Noc also needs to start playing his game, drawing charges, working hard, not making silly fouls but necessary fouls, and once he gets that back on the defense, I’m sure his offense will naturally improve. He’s never been a great man to man defender ont he perimeter, but he had been a solid defender because of his post D and his ability to get in the offensive players heads and draw charges etc. Now he’s not doing any of those little things and his man drivng past him is becoming more and more an issue.

It’s strange too because the preseason and first 5 games or so it seemed Noc was the best player to play with Rose and Noc was playing probably our second best bball—not necessarily in the stats per se but overall impact….sicne then though he’s making Kirk Hinrich’s crappy season of last year look all star worthy….

I hope he’s injured, and have always felt it’s annoying that Noc plays through injuries as much as he does……it’s one thing to play through the little nic nacks or injuries that don’t dramatically hurt his game (I like the loyalty thing) but when you are so blatantly ineffective, it sucks, and Noc did this to us in the playoffs 2 years ago, and although I haven’t heard injury talk, he’s playing so crappy right now and had that horrible limp in the Olympics you have to wonder if he’s doing the same…..I mean his stats are halved from the normal, and that comes after a nice first 5-6 game stretch (preseason doesn’t count), so the last 10-12 games have been probably 25% of the normal Nocioni….just unacceptable….

I still want to like him, he’s still one of my personal favorite NBA players because of how hard he tries and plays, but I want VDN to shut him down for a bit….

by majoyenrac on Dec 5, 2008 10:52 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm. I'll keep hope alive

and defy all the Noce-haters in the meantime… ;)

And it’s Bass… I had to add something cause it was taken on SBN.

by BAB-Bass on Dec 7, 2008 4:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

unadjusted net +/-

has many flaws. It shouldn’t be used as an indicator of play.

by CJ Bulls on Dec 5, 2008 12:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

It has the advantage of being

totally transparent.

Unlike adjusted +/-

by BAB-Bass on Dec 7, 2008 4:29 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Overplaying Noch and not playing Deng lately in the game.Was just over the top.

General manager needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow,next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Sir Paxdorf.

by Azabullsfan on Dec 4, 2008 12:09 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

if we're taking recently let go coaches

i’d rather have eddie jordan. sam mitchell sucks.

by Jaina on Dec 4, 2008 7:35 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Eddie Jordan would be nice and Flip Saunders is still available too!

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Dec 4, 2008 8:20 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hire Flip

And lets recruit Brian Shaw as the lead assistant. We’ll get two years out of Flip and then hand the keys to Shaw.

In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2008 1:00 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

We can't hire a new coach yet.

With all of these former coach-of-the-year winners now available, I’ve been thinking about it too, but we can’t do it. If a HOF coach becomes available (like Utah fires Sloan or the Spurs fire Pop or something), maybe that changes things. But as it is, we can’t do it. If we pull the plug on Vinny this quickly, who’s going to want to replace him? Who is ever going to feel comfortable in the job? Pax picked Vinny, and now he has to live with him, at least for a year. Dude’s still learning.

by arjoseph on Dec 4, 2008 10:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

If Paxson wants to help his coach out at all, he's gotta make some moves.

How long can it do on like this with all these spare parts competing for minutes? Plus, how crazy is it gonna get when Hinrich comes back? Seriously, what will he do then? I actually kind of sympathize with Vinny, he really has to dig around on this roster to find answers.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 4, 2008 12:08 AM CST   0 recs

pax is just the Chairman's hand puppet

i sympathize with both of them

Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.

-- Scottie Pippen

by Orlando Woolridge on Dec 4, 2008 12:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I sure hope Sam Smith is right

about the Wiz actually considering taking Larry Hughes back. That would awesome.

In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Dec 4, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

YES.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

In Noc's defense

In Noc’s defense, its not like he is not trying. He is just being misused and overused. If he plays sparingly when the match up is right for us and he can actually guard someone on the other team thats on the floor with no problems, then we can use him. Dont feature him in the offense either. Let him do his thing and he is not so bad. Vinny puts him in a scoring position and gives him tough defensive assignments, he is setting him up to fail. I will tell you guys this in my opinion, if Tyrus played as hard and worked his tail off as hard as Noc does, he would be an all-star. I just dont think bashing him or blaming him is quite right. He hasnt helped himself much, I will give you that, but he is not being put in the right position to succeed. He is not as good as Vinny thinks he is.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Dec 4, 2008 12:43 AM CST   0 recs

I agree too.

But I think namingrightsonsale point is that Vinny puts Noce in a situation where he will surely fail.

Like guarding Iguodala or Jefferson. Noce can probably guard Villanueva or Spreights but since he drew Iggy and RJ, he got burned big time.

Also, Noce should be in an offense where he’s like the fourth option. Rose, Gordon, Deng, Gooden and Noce seem ideal because all four will shoot before Noce will.

by PatBull on Dec 4, 2008 1:06 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The problem is, that's his position.

He’s a 3 who is big enough to play 4 in a small lineup, but he’s not really a 4. So he should be guarding guys like RJ and Iggy every night, or rather, he should be able to.

by arjoseph on Dec 4, 2008 10:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'd say he's a 4 first

as I’d rather sacrifice height than quickness on defense.

However if Nocioni can’t jump anymore (he never boxed out), then he can’t rebound at that position. At least not to leave him out there long-term if he’s not hitting shots.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

The only way Noc (with all his defensive shortcomings) can play the 4...

Is if we have a great (and I mean all star) 5.

This team is so weak, with no real option at center, that we can’t sacrafice anything (RE: height or quickness) with another obvious weakness at the PF spot… But we do… Every night… And people still think it’s Vinny’s fault we get “out coached”… Curse you Paxson!!! I digress.

Don't call me doughboy!

by Khalid El-Amin on Dec 4, 2008 1:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Positions

Positions dont matter as much as the player. He can guard some 3’s and some 4’s. Like I said, find the right match-up for him and use it. Heck, he can even guard a 1 or a 2 or a 5 if they are not real threats on offense. I wouldnt be opposed to seeing him guard Jason Collins or something or guarding Iggy or RJ

by NamingRightsOnSale on Dec 4, 2008 3:02 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hear, hear.

I like you already.

by PatBull on Dec 4, 2008 1:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Unfortunately, "his thing"

is driving and getting stripped while flailing about. He doesn’t defer, so it doesn’t matter if he is featured or not.

Also, he gets smoked on easy defensive assignments, too.

by JeffD on Dec 4, 2008 8:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Everyone

yesterday was driving and getting stripped though…. Gordon, Deng, Rose, Nocioni….all had this happen multiple times, I think even Larry Hughes had it happen once or twice….

Skiles must really be working on this with Milwaukee and they must really have an act for it, as their D wasn’t so hot in other areas, but stripping the ball was a real strength….

One thing we can say about Noc is at least he’s not Andrew Bogut and that salary. Seriously Bogut can put up ok numbers from time to time, but he’s a real bust in my book, and now has a huge contract. He can be a stat stuffer with the boards, etc, but in a playoff game or against a good opponent, he can be taken out of hte mix very quickly….

by majoyenrac on Dec 4, 2008 8:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sadly.

Bogut is better than any of our big men.

"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson

by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 4, 2008 10:29 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Very true

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 4, 2008 10:32 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Bogut just got back from injury

and he had to leave last night with another injury. He’s not bad at all.

This is so Bulls-fans-y…rip someone who’s actually good but not good enough. I’d love to have Bogut on this team.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 4, 2008 10:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

i actually don't mind bogut

but his salary was a bit much – though i heard it wasn’t that bad and a lot of what was reported were incentives.

i phrased it kinda wrong… but my point was more that yeah our big men are worse, but they don’t have the contract either. it would be worse if we were paying our big guys what bogut is making for these sort of results.

by Jaina on Dec 4, 2008 10:43 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

At some point our guys will reach the end of their rookie contracts

And then it won’t be a huge difference.

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Dec 4, 2008 1:42 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

true enough

but even a guy like gooden is 3mil$ less a year.

by