Game Preview #19 - Chicago Bulls at Milwaukee Bucks

by Big D on Dec 3, 2008 3:17 PM CST Comment 53 comments

[Thanks to Big D for today's game preview. Andrew Bogut likely returns tonight, and that's a huge help to the Bucks. -ed.]

The Bulls have another opportunity for revenge tonight against Scott Skiles (and that other guy who coached the team last year) when they face the Bucks in Milwaukee (7:00 Central, WGN).

Despite the addition of Skiles, the Bucks have been as bad as ever so far, with a record of 7-12. Skiles has done pretty much what everyone has expected him to do, and amazingly, he's actually turned the Bucks into a decent defensive team. They currently rank 11th in the league in Defensive Efficiency. Why, then, are they so bad? The answer is obvious for those of us who have seen Skiles in action - they're 26th in Offensive Efficiency. In fairness, Michael Redd is just coming back after missing 14 games with an ankle injury. If he gets going, don't be surprised if the Bucks get back in the playoff race in the East, because they have too many weapons to be one of the worst offensive teams in the league for long. For what it's worth, John Hollinger has the Bucks 13th in his Power Rankings (mostly because of a strong strength of schedule).

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Bucks Diary

The less said about last night's game, the better. The Bulls have a golden opportunity to get back over .500 over the next few weeks, but if they can't beat teams like Philly at home and Milwaukee away, we're just going to have to face the fact that this team isn't that good. I've been reading a lot of comments about how the Bulls have exceeded expectations so far (mostly by going 3-4 on the circus trip). I don't really buy that, since who expected Derrick Rose to be this good right away? If you had told me that he'd be one of the best point guards in the league immediately, my expectations probably would have been raised a little bit. This team has a superstar now, so judging them based on last year's sorry performance doesn't cut it anymore.

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let's hope Redd

is even slower than usual with his bum ankle and BG goes off for 30+ in a Bulls rout. I’d like DRose to have a 16pt, 10assist game…creating lots of open looks for BG with Redd extra slow on his close-outs.

by kig on Dec 3, 2008 3:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You'd like Rose to score less than his average?

How about 25 and 10?

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Dec 3, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Triple double I say!

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Dec 3, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have a feeling we'll see one this season

possibly and hopefully more

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus...

I will be most curious to see if Tyrus can continue his strong performance from last night…

Kc johnson mentioned a few times that Tyrus has the ability to become a Dennis Rodman type rebounder and defender…. and, while I agree with that, and I think that Tyrus’s focus should be in those two areas, Ty also has the ability to finish at the rim, which obviously, Dennis didn’t.

Somebody just has to teach him to play with Rose… and look for a pass when he rolls to the rim.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

tyrus reminds of rodman sometimes

the way he grabs rebounds. he really clears everyone out the way rodman used to. then there’s gray who fumbles around. tyrus really snatches it when he wants it. he’d be great if he could do these things consistently…. but that’s really the key with him in general.

by Jaina on Dec 3, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Tyrus

became Rodman like defender, he’d be better than Dennis as a player because Tyrus does have some offensive game……he just has to learn how to best use his offensive game/skills….

I don’t quite see it, the worm was nutty, was strong and insanely confident. Tyrus is more athletic perhaps, but I don’t know if he has the mean thing or the insane thing going……

by majoyenrac on Dec 3, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Confident

Rodman was “cocky” confident. Ty seems to be constantly second guessing himself and thinking too much. He seems to be at his best when he just reacts. If he can gain some confidence (not in his jump shot though) he would play like he did last night in every single outing. That type of performance would be more than acceptable from a #2 overall pick.

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 3, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think most of Tyrus' lack of confidence

comes from the coaches and fans. I agree that going 2-17 is unacceptable and he should have been pulled at that point. But completely taking him out of the rotation for two weeks because of one game doesn’t help the confidence. Being called a bust by fans certainly help either. Give this guy one season of consistent PT and let’s see what happens.

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're severely underestimating Rodman

Rodman was a badass, like a forward version of Ben Wallace in his prime.

Incredible defender, and definitely not a backup like what Tyrus has shown to date.
And his conditioning was world-class. None of this Noah crap, or not running the floor getting back on D crap. He would work out on an exercise bike for an hour or two after games.

Rodman was a bit mental and stopped shooting because he lost respect for shooting since other guys cared so much about points.But that doesn’t mean he didn’t have talent, even on the offensive end.

from wikipedia:

Playing small forward in his early years before becoming a power forward, Rodman earned NBA All-Defensive First Team honors seven times and was voted NBA Defensive Player of the Year twice. He also led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years

Career high points: 34 points
Career high rebounds: 34 rebounds

by KentuckyBullsFan on Dec 3, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Rodman was a BADASS

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 3, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus is not even in the same postcode as Rodman

it’s ..it’s not even close.
The only trait they share is they are relatively tall and played for the bulls.

You are talking about probably pound for pound the greatest rebounder to ever lace up a pair of sneakers, who was also right up there in terms of all time Defensive forwards. I mean for gods sake he manned up on guys like karl Malone for a living.

" Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. "

by Bushka on Dec 3, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really didn't mean that Tyrus...

was like Dennis Rodman now, or that he will ever be as good as Dennis Rodman.

I was merely saying that I think KC Johnson has a point when he says that Tyrus should focus on being that kind of player. Defense and Rebounding first, and worry about everything else second. He has the athletic ability to be an extraordinary rebounder and shot blocker.

I think if he perfects those two traits, or at least gets really good at them, it will be a boon for his confidence, which seems to make a big difference in Tyrus game to game ability.

This, plus teaching him to always be ready for a Derrick Rose pass, and he would be much improved.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Early in Shaq's career,

Rodman pretty much shut him down for a half playing man defense.

He also had a predatory instinct for grabbing the basketball.

Dennis deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but likely won’t make it. :(

by Granny Waiters on Dec 5, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he will get in there eventually

He accomplished too many things on the court to be passed over.

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 6, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Doubt that will ever happen

Rodman may not have much offensive game but he has a lot higher basketball IQ than Tyrus. Rodman actually uses technique to snatch rebounds (boxes out, knows where the ball is going to go, tips to himself, etc.). Tyrus basically just jumps high. On defense, Tyrus is a better shot blocker but he is lacking in defensive IQ here compared to Rodman. He doesn’t close out on shooters, bites on pump fakes too much, loses his man at times, and has a tendency to let opponents get into the lane at will. He’s got a lot of ground to make up to be as effective as Rodman.

by Parrotman on Dec 3, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

People keep forgetting

Tyrus is only 22. Rodman wasn’t even in the league until he was 25 and didn’t average double digit rebounds until he was 30 and he never averaged even 1 block per game let alone over one block per game which I think Tyrus is capable of.

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus is in his 3rd year

And he’s regressed. In fact, his best rebounding rate was back in his rookie year. Dennis had better rebounding rates his first 3 years in the NBA. Heck, Dennis had better scoring rates than Tyrus his first 3 years. Those are raw stats alone, and doesn’t even take into account the long list of things Tyrus needs to get infinitely better at in the basketball IQ department. So far, he’s shown virtually no progress his 3 years in the NBA. It’s hard to dream he’s going to become a Dennis Rodman.

by Parrotman on Dec 3, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dennis' body was 3 years older

when he entered the league as a result he was more mature physically and mentally when he entered the league

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's forget Dennis comparisons

Since Tyrus is so far off right now. Let’s compare Tyrus now with Tyrus 2 years ago. What exactly has changed? He hasn’t really gotten more effective on the court. In fact, you can argue he’s gotten less effective on the court. That’s a big problem

by Parrotman on Dec 3, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He hasn't regressed he hasn't gotten good but he hasn't regressed

rookie year- 3.7rpg 1.1bpg 5.2ppg
2nd year-4.6rpg 1.0bpg 6.8ppg
now-5.8rpg 1.7bpg 6.8ppg

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's gotten less efficient

listing total points, rebounds, etc…doesn’t make sense when the minutes are not the same. If he plays 10 minutes and scores 20 points is that the same as if he plays 20 minutes and scores 20 points? His minutes have steadily gone up, but his effectiveness has not. His Field goal percentage has declined each year. His rookie year he only took 20% of his shots as jump shots. Now he’s taking 58% of his shots as jump shots. Guess what his FG% for jumpers are right now? 26%. There should be no way he continually goes to his jump shot when it’s such a horrendous percentage. Also his defense this year looks worse than other years. Hopefully, last night was something to build upon because he has looked bad this year.

by Parrotman on Dec 3, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Uhm, i think Rodman was a really great player. maybe a specialist, but excellent at what he did. although all those kinds of players look far better on championship teams. Tyrus so far has flashed potential but he’s been inconsistent and made too many mistakes.

He may not be a bust, but he’s not the superstar we hoped he could, and he’ll probably never be. He’s not going to turn into Amare, even with playing time. The question is, can he turn into an effective player, a specialist?

by grillo on Dec 3, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really see him as....

a poor man’s Tyson Chandler.

Which is terribly sad. Tyrus is more athletic, but Tyson is a good deal taller.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's is....

I should say, that’s how I see Tyrus now… as an inferior Tyson Chandler.

He could and should get better.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

I kind of agree with you, but i believe Chandler was always more reliable, at least on the defensive end. he’s built his game from that solid rebounding and d that he brings to most games. Tyrus though still takes those bad jumpers, still gets out of control dribbling at breakneck speed, and still gambles on d to get the big block.

That’s why i said Amare, he also makes a lot of mental mistakes, but he’s so talented that you get over it.

by grillo on Dec 3, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough...

I laughed out loud late in the game last night when Tyrus seemed to lose his dribble in the lane, chases the ball down towards the hoop, and got fouled on the “drive”.

I really wanted to see a lightbulb go on over his head, like, “Hey, when I go to the rim, good things happen!”

Well, if I Tyrus is a “poor man’s Tyson Chandler”, then he is a “homeless, starving, and diseased man’s Amare Stoudemire.”

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 3, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tyrus gets off so light here...

I reckon he must be paying people by the positive comment because i’ve never seen a player underperform so consistently and still hold onto the hearts and minds of the fan base.

He is still a project 3 years in, and the fact that the bulls look better defensively when he clocks into the game is more a savage indictment on the Front line of the team than a recommendation.

" Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. "

by Bushka on Dec 3, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Underperform-Check

I’m not actually a big Tyrus supporter.

Hold my heart – No sir.

I didn’t want the Bulls to draft him at all, and he hasn’t done anything to change my mind about his value. I have supported a trade for every possible star power forward for the last three years. From Kevin Garnett to Shawn Marion.

But, it just so happens, we don’t have another frontcourt player on our team who has the potential of Tyrus. Drew Gooden can have good games, but he isn’t the super athletic, alley-oop all day and swat shots into the second row kind of player that Tyrus shows flashes of.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe the addition of Rodman made those teams

into champions – look how the Bulls improved when he joined the team.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 5, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the same year Michael Jordan came back full-time?

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Dec 6, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Without Rodman

the 1995-96 Bulls might not have had home court advantage over a very good Magic team, and been able to beat them to get to the finals. In the finals, would Kukoc been able to guard Kemp?

by Granny Waiters on Dec 6, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

God I just

really hope we beat the Bucks tonight….maybe a repeat of game one where Tyrus THomas amazed….

Losing Kirk though hurts, Kirk had his best game in year’s in game 1 (sans the turnovers I guess, but even then they didn’t account for much).

We should be a better team…..we’ll see tonight though.

I don’t hate Skiles, I hate his offense blah….but he wasn’t a bad coach and was a funny guy with the snide remarks….but I really want us to beat the Bucks because of him…..

If he fails in Milwaukee, (after at least 2.5 years) I don’t think he should coach again though as I do blame a lot of Paxson’s bad moves on Skiles’s wanting to get his gritty players in lieu of big time both ends of the games (ahem offensive player) stars….

by majoyenrac on Dec 3, 2008 3:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kirks injury is best thing that coulda happened to us...

Im a huge Heinrich fan, but I think that his injury was a blessing for this team and Rose. When he comes back he will be a solid backup. Without his injury Rose may not have gotten this much attention and minutes.

by Pax_4_Prez on Dec 3, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heinrich eh?

Do you also enjoy Hinikin?

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Dec 3, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not so much...

by Pax_4_Prez on Dec 3, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or

Heinlein. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein) He couldn’t rebound either.

by Cannoli on Dec 3, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah...

It’s not a big deal to misspell a players name, but when it comes right after the words “I’m a huge” and right before the word “fan”, it’s is worthy of chuckles and a couple jokes.

by kidronmusic on Dec 3, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Leave him alone, I don't see what the big deal is.

Anyway, I can’t wait to see Derik Roze play tonight, he’s amazing.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 3, 2008 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying." -- Michael Jordan

by bennythebull on Dec 3, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heineken??????

Fuck that shit….
Pabst
Blue
Ribbon!

by Tobo on Dec 3, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell yeah PBR

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 3, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Bucks are the most imprved.

Defensive team in the NBA.

Yep, its all a testament to mad annoying genius that is Scott Skiles…and of course that they sucked so badly last season…

"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson

by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 3, 2008 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Dont forget that Redd has missed 14 games

and is horrible defender, which helps their defense.

by TruEChiFaN... on Dec 3, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No matter how much I disliked Skiles at times

at least when he was coach we never had to question the identity of the team. He was a leader that thad a clear vision for his team and he implemented it quickly and got rid of the people that wouldn’t help him. Although he didn’t have to be such a prick at times, it’s that type of coach that wins games. I have yet to determine one defining factor of a Vinny Del Negro coached team. Can you? What exactly is he trying to pull off here? It seems to me that all of the confusion on the floor is happening largely because this team lacks an identity. Just a long way of saying, I think VDN has no clue what the hell he’s doing.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 3, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He's doing his best

to stay employed…that’s what he’s doing. Aren’t we all? VDN gets too much slack IMO around here. Ok, I’ll step down from the soapbox now.

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Dec 3, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Its All About

empowering the players to self-actualize. See previous comment re: Heinlein. Vinny wants the players to grok teamwork in a way that stimulates the interstices of their quantum basketball intelligence. This, by definition, would necessarily affect both the observer and the observed in the time-space continuum. (BTW, to grok (pronounced /ˈgrɒk/) is to share the same reality or line of thinking with another physical or conceptual entity.)

And I haven’t even started drinking;)

by Cannoli on Dec 3, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs