Locker room loss-reaction weirdness: and their worst players shall lead them
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 1:15 AM CST
99 comments
Kudos to blog-brother PeachTreeHoops for finding this paradox from the Bulls locker room after giving up 129 points to the Hawks on Sunday:
In truly dysfunctional team news, Andres Nocioni:
"It's personal, you know? Everybody needs to take the challenge. If we don't play 'D,' we will be out of the playoffs for sure. Today was terrible, terrible defense. We need to stop the ball one-on-one. hen nobody helps or crowds guys or takes a charge. So everybody can drive the basket or get offensive rebounds. It's energy. It's attitude. And that's it."
versus head coach Vinny Del Negro:
"It's definitely not the effort. Guys are playing hard and giving me what they can."
Okay.
Wait, I think Larry Hughes has something to say:
"I'm not a spot-minute guy. I don't play well in that situation. If you want me to produce, I have to be out there. I can make a difference at both ends if I play."
Remember, it was merely weeks ago when another defensive stalwart, Drew Gooden, offered to coach the team on that end of the floor.
Even Nocioni comes off as someone completely out of touch with reality. You know what would be a good attitude, Noc? Maybe having the 'passion' to stay with your man instead of making your head magnetically follow the ball, maybe having the 'grit' to challenge a shot without clubbing the shooter across the arms (or flail backwards into someone's ACL), or the 'toughness' to accept an official's call without whining to them.
(is he just an endearing rube? Does he really think he's not one of the main culprits in giving up offensive rebounds? Though it's not exactly his fault for the times when Vinny plays him at center...)
Though what is worse: that Larry Hughes (not bad for a couple steals, but not exactly committed to team defense...or 'team' anything) and Andres Nocioni (just completely hopeless on the defensive end) are speaking up as the saviors of the defense, or that Vinny seemingly believes them, since they played the entire 4th quarter. And I don't doubt for a second that if Drew Gooden were healthy, he'd have been out there in the closing period as well, no matter what Thomas has been doing the past few games (another story, I admit).
I was fine with hiring a rookie head coach, the retread wheel isn't always that appealing. But Paxson had to know that he couldn't put someone this green in charge of such a mismatched mess, and he has to be actively trying to get it fixed...not waiting for the perfect deal, and not waiting for everyone to be healthy. I fear that in a locker room where the vets so often question the coaching, it's the beginning of a season going off the rails.
And it's not that hard to find out who needs to go: start with the guys who are speaking out yet not playing what they preach. I'm guessing it'd make Vinny's job a bit easier (whether that ultimately makes a difference or not...) to have these wanna-be assistants out of his fantastic hair.
4 recs |
99 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Good editorial
What they said was true, BUT. They could have just as easily said, “I lost the game for us”. Or, “I really made a difference on both ends tonight…for Atlanta”. We have an opportunity. How about for a stretch we run with TT at the 3 (where he seems to think he belongs), Noah at the 4 (his natural-college position), and Gray in the middle. Try it next time we’re leading in the 4th; that unit can’t play much worse than what he’s been running out there in crunch time. At least after the opposing guards blow by our front line, there will be someone capable of help d or rebounding.
by California Al on Dec 29, 2008 2:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
'help D' and 'rebounding':
Buzzwords! WORTH NOTHING
‘Grit’, ‘toughness’, ‘passion’ – now THERE are some concrete tools players need to succeed.
-The More You Know™
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 29, 2008 4:04 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, sorry, got confused there
Great sig, BTW. How about an all GTP team? Trade Gordon for Vulacich, Thomas for Big Baby, we already have Kirk and Noc; now if we can just get Gray to get that stupid grin off his face, we have the ultimate grit, toughness, passion team. Just occurred to me, don’t you tend to get gritty and tough when you can’t beat the other guy at, say, basketball?
by California Al on Dec 29, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vinny Del Negro
is in agreement with all of your moves.
Vujacic has three things over Ben Gordon:
-He’s tall, so that means he can defend better.
-He definitely never gets his ankles completely broken by Ray Allen, whose ankles are surgically repaired.
-He has an awesome nickname. The Machine? Seriously!
-He looks angry when he fails!
Gritty people look angrier than non-gritty people, it’s true, because they tend to fail more often than other people. Oh well.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 29, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
I love how Larry’s basically saying:
“When I play bad, that only means you have to play me MORE.”
So who gets to tell him that it’s supposed to work the other way around?
by j_myx on Dec 29, 2008 2:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"it's the beginning of a season going off the rails"
I’ve had that fear for most of the month. These guys really seem to have a lot of fight in them, but only for the wrong things. They all look like they know the situation they’ve been put in is stupid and untenable just like we do.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Dec 29, 2008 7:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
meh
they are losing road games to slightly above average teams… when they start losing at home, panic.
by silentpete on Dec 29, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they're too talented to lose that much
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That Heat game was very disappointing, as was the following Hawks game, both of which you knew early were going to be losses even when the score looked differently.
I just wish VDN would force the Noah and T2 hand, let them play, if they play like shit, let them play like shit. Tyrus is coming into his own a bit, but seems to get pulled too mcuh,a nd I’d rather see a lackluster Noah game with a flash or two of good play than see a 30 minute Aaron Gray night….even when Gray was scoring like he was in the Heat game, he’s just too damn slow to put any post defense.
Nocioni’s not been this team’s problem this year, our POST DEFENSE is awful.
I did see to a degree what Noc was talking about in the Hawks game. Gordon kept moving aside and not playing any D whatsoever, hoping to funnel Johnson or Bibby to Big Aaron….bad move. Gordon’s done a decent job with his D, but he was lacking.
Larry’s played like crap of late.
Andres though should keep his public mouth quiet after he had been playing the worst stretch of his career before rebounding a bit the past week and a half….
Ugh. I hate wishing Drew would come back, but I’d rather see him at C with Tyrus, than see the constant Aaron Gray time….
I like the fact that big Aaron plays hard, but the dude’s just too damn slow.
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noc is responsible for post defense
since he’s at the PF, pretty much full time with Gooden out.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The 4
though hasn’t been our biggest issue….between Noc and Tyrus, but we need to have both a 4 and 5 that can play D together and we cannot/ have not…..
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about losing to awful teams on the road and barely scraping by awful teams at home?
losses at the Bucks, Griz and Bobbies.
scraping by the Clippers, Knicks and Wiz
This hasn’t been a confidence inspiring run.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Dec 29, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They aren't far off from any of the teams they've lost to since the circus trip
They are playing like a team with no talent when they have more than enough to be a few games above .500.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't make any sense...
This is almost the exact same team that won 33 games last season…in fact the only thing changed is the point guard and the head coach…while I know everyone around here is high on Rose and down on Duhon, I don’t see how two rookies equate to 8 or 9 more wins this season…
I will go ahead and make the excuse, there are three starters injured, each of whom happens to be a team captain…its easy to see why they are losing to good teams on the road…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, well there's likely some of you out there
I’m the opposite: call me Mr. Positive.
I think this team has .500 talent sleepwalking, and with Rose being pretty spectacular they should be in the high-40s and a top-6 seed.
And really? the ‘captains’ are out? This team wasn’t playing well even when they were here. They’re still not playing well. When they couldn’t blow out bad teams at home, it should’ve been a worrisome sign
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone would confuse you with Mr. Positive.
But the excuse remains, the coach said it himself.
Right now, one of our better big guys ( Drew Gooden) is out. Lu (Deng) is out. Kirk (Hinrich) has been out all year. Defensively, if you don’t control the paint in penetration, it’s hard to win
To me its obvious, the team is struggling without three important rotation players…regardless of how much sleepwalking the remaining players and coach may do, they are not a .500 team with these three players, much less without them. I am not condemning them for the season, but from what I have seen this season and last, these players together are not winning more than they are losing.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you meant to say you're not condoning them
though maybe you didn’t mean to say that, since you basically are condoning shit play.
Maybe this is a semantic argument? You say they aren’t .500 even when healthy. I say they should be a .500 team with these 3 players (they’re a .000 team without them) and real coaching and development and an organizational plan.
Do you really think that this team has talent closer to 33 wins than 49? You should be at the forefront of the Paxson firing squad then.
And buying into Vinny’s injury excuse…for shame.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right.
They should be a .500 team, but have not played like one in nearly two seasons. While I continue to doubt the organization and the moves it has made, at some point the players have to be held accountable for their crappy play as well…the point I was making is these are the players that stumbled to 33 wins last season while going through two coaches, one of whom can actually coach in the NBA.
Regarding Paxson…There is no point for me call for his head, he will be the GM at least through the season. The rumor mill a churning gives me some optimism that moves will be made. I am hoping the right moves will be made, though given his history…lets just say it does not inspire confidence.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You got that right
What difference made Deng on the circus trip, for instance? He was injured and we still won three of seven games, I think. And the same applies to Hinrich… We saw the best of Gooden by that time, though
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich
Would definately help our guard defense so that we wouldn’t constantly see guys like Joe Johnson or gulp Chris Duhon drive into the paint as frequently as they have been doing against us. Rose-Gordon are a sensational offensive duo, but the D is lacking. BG’s improved enough to be an ok defender, but Rose has some work to do on that end.
Still our Center spot’s been awful either way on the D end.
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The poor guard defense on screen and roll defense
could look a lot better if we were stronger at the 4 and 5. I didn’t get to watch either the Heat or the Hawks game, but from previous games we have been very poor at defending the high screen. We had to be the worst team in the NBA last year in this area and that was with a healthy Hinrich and Ben Wallace.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
And last year’s .500 was a mess of in fighting etc. The team’s got a whole new dynamic going at least early this year. Rose in over HInrich is not as big a change as the ridding ourselves of Ben Wallace and he-who-must-not-be-named as well as Skiles who lost this team early.
The lack of scheming on D to try to help Derrick Rose a bit with his 1 big NBA weakness after 3 straight weeks of explotation is disappointing…..
As is the lack of any D inside….especially now that Noc and especially Tyrus seem to be getting it together of late defensively, it’s a shame that the C position has been so weak defensively to completely nullfiy any nice stretch of games by most especially Tyrus THomas (I’m very impressed with the fact that Tyrus is letting the game come to him and not forcing anything, his D has been solid the past 5-6 games at least).
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm starting to understand some attitudes of Noc
Did anyone notice Noc complaining with some Bulls when they made something bad, like not taking a charge, not helping on defense or whatever, on the last couple of games? I did… And this affirmations were what I need to read to conclude that there’s not a lot of union in this team. On the court, sometimes they play has a team, but it’s clear to me that some guys don’t stand the others no more. I hope i’m wrong, but who knows. Maybe Noc is one of them. If so, then Pax should be on the phone talking to every GM trying to trade him for someone better off the court, since probably his value won’t get us a better player…
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 8:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Where are the team captains?
Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich are soft personalities to begin with. They end up being captains by default.
I’d rather have Antonio Davis and PJ Brown around. Our vets right now are Noc, Gooden, and Hughes.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2008 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon always seems to be honest and up front in interviews
He always seems to admit it and take responsibility when he does something dumb, anyway.
That’s something I sort of like from a team captain, but obviously I’m not on this team’s wavelength.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Dec 29, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But you can post him up
So he’d be an awful captain.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rose will end up being the lider of this team
The problem is that he’s still a rookie. Besides, he’s too quiet…
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a leader on the floor
I’ve seen him numerous times telling guys on the floor what to do. You don’t have to be a screamer to be an effective leader. When you have scrubs like Noce saying the team isn’t playing hard enough while every game he makes numerous defensive lapses, gets out rebounded, and just tries to flop his way through a game it shows how inept this team is. Who knew how much this team needed PJ/Joe Smith/Antonio Davis?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't it Ed Nealy
that MJ used to point to and talk about when trying to motivate Pippen and Horace Grant?
MJ would point at Nealy and tell Pippen and Grant about how much Nealy delivers in the NBA with so little athletic talent.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant off the court
Rose always criticizes his game. Never accuses other players of playing bad or making something bad. I like that, despite the fact that sometimes he’s being too modest. But we need some sort of general on the locker room. Without one, everyone says what they want. And Rose don’t have that character right now…
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Rose is 20
If a 20 year old rookie started criticizing his teammates publicly, it would be career suicide.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But he could talk in general. Like “we missed this, we need to improve that…”. If everyone sees that the team needs to defend better inside, why shouldn’t he point that? It’s a fact. No one would denie it. Besides, he would show a strong personality and people would often talk about he becoming the great leader of this team…
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree
If Rose critizes Thomas, Noah, Deng, Aaron, or Larry he is committing career suicide? Who in the NBA thinkns that any of those players are significant? You think Chris Bosh would give a damn if he heard that Rose threw Noah under the bus for not trying hard and studying the playbook? Do you think Wade wouldn’t consider coming to Chicago if he read Rose critized his teammates for not playing D?
My point is there is no veteran on this roster that has earned enough support in the leauge that Derrick would be thought of as a punk rookie if he called him out.
Come on
by Jscho316 on Dec 29, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Think about the difference between Wade, Bosh, and Rose
Wade has earned the right to criticize whomever he wants, if Rose was a MVP candidate and the 2nd best player in the league he could do it as well. He’s not, he’s a freaking rookie.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus Rose isn't a good defender yet either
He really shouldn’t be calling anyone out for their lack of defense yet. I think he’ll be a good defender someday, but he’s pretty bad right now.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 29, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true. He shouldn't.
But career suicide? WTF does that even mean? Like players on his team won’t like him so they won’t play as hard so the team won’t win as much? Even though Rose would, presumably, be busting his ass every day in practice? Or that he somehow wouldn’t be as good of a player?
Does he have the “right”? No. Is it career suicide? That’s just retardedness.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you would expect no ramifications
To a 20 year old playing the blame game with a roster that, while young, has plenty of seasoned guys? Maybe not career suicide, but it would severely mess things up with this current stable of guys.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see both side. On one hand, I think it is bad karma and bad press for a 20 year old rookie to criticize his teammates. On the other hand…look at the teammates in question. They’d be scrubs on any team with Bosh and Wade.
"It's not how you enter your sport, it's how you exit." - Dr. J
http://myspace.com/eme0916
by dfjmed on Dec 29, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are all injured.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if only those guys could play
it’d be nice to have a vet who wasn’t selfish (or spacy) and could play a bit. I suppose Joe Smith qualified.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the detroit feed of the game a couple nights ago
and on one possession Nocioni did one of his patented arm hacks then raising his hand to let everyone know he in fact was the man who fouled. The cameras stayed on nocioni and he blew up at Noah. The Detroit announcers made a big deal about it and kept panning back to Noc on the bench showing him still bitching at anyone who would listen about how Noah screwed up the previous play. I didn’t see any metion of it on here so I just assume Stacy and Funk missed it.
by silentpete on Dec 29, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noc is still playing according to the Skiles rules
I didn’t see the game, but Noc regularly gets upset when he has to take a foul. Now, “take a foul” is the Skiles way to play whereas if a player missed a rotation(noah) then another player steps in to foul to make the opponent “earn” the points at the line.
It’s pretty clear this team is not a defensive stalwart. There’s little reason then to foul on missed rotations. The defense, as it stands now and on what basis it can deliver for the rest of this season, should be to stop ball penetration and force the opponent to shoot jumpers.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Noc is so upset with taking fouls
why does he insist on doing it so often? It’s not just on missed rotations, the team will have a guy pinned under the hoop and there’s Noc just smacking him, raising his hand, and hearing Stacy King laud how he sure doesn’t waste them.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on how you mean that
If you mean that the perimeter D is supposed to stop penetration, I don’t see that happening much around the league. Nobody stops any of the premier players one on one. If you mean that the interior D is supposed to create an image of a crowd in the paint to discourage said penetration, yes. That’s what I don’t see, and probably related to what Noc was bitching about.
You can’t allow an effective three-ball attack today. So the wings have to press and trap out there. Once that’s beaten, then the rotation has to encourage the mid-range jumper. If the ballhandler tries to go to the hoop, then the “no layups” rule goes into effect. Kobe commented how the Celts and the league in general have taken his best game away with the zone. He beats his man, but there’s a whole gang waiting for him.
I can live with Rose’s perceived defensive deficiencies if there’s a wall behind him. Right now, they look a lot like the Warriors. Easy to beat up front, no resistance behind the first line of D. I saw a few times that Thabo pushed his man to his weak hand only to have him walk to the hole unchallenged. No teamwork at all. That’s why I’m looking for a frontcourt rotation of Gray-TT-Thabo-Noah when we’re trying to preserve a lead. That smallball idea is ok for trying to score quickly, but as presently manned, has no defensive merit. Maybe Vinnie ought to start the games the way he tries to finish them and vice versa.
by California Al on Dec 29, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's how I interpret his anger as well
basically I see this as Noce being tired of guys like Noah still not knowing their assignment, not knowing where to be, where to help, etc., resulting in an already struggling Noce to have to worry about covering for another teammate on that end when Noce feels he has enough to worry about now. The question is does that anger build and bubble when that player who keeps putting his teammates in bail out situations fails to show an improved work ethic, improved conditioning, and the ability to show up to practices and team events on time?
I don’t know, but I’m just piecing together the reports I’ve read and what I’ve seen on the court.
And taking a foul is a common reaction to cover for a teammates missed assignment. Your alternative is to let that player score possibly the easiest bucket in the game.
by messwiththebull on Dec 29, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That God I was not the only to see that
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VDN seems so clueless. I am hoping more is going on behind the scenes but
I’m not terribly optimistic that this is happening. We have become such a dysfunctional team. Noc and Hughes seem the worst offenders of non-team play. They both should be on the bench if we cannot trade them. We need a defensive coach – maybe Tom Thibodeau could turn this bunch into a defensive team. I am not optimistic a trade is going to impact this mess. To me the glaring problem is coaching even though our personnel problems cannot be ignored.
by chgobr on Dec 29, 2008 8:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Of course there is.
Because, you know, Del Negro is a genius and Paxson is awesome. I mean, the deserve the benefit of the doubt by a looooooong margin. Who cares if they haven’t really done anything other than benching young guys and that miraculously worked although it never worked before but now it did and it’s the best thing to ever happen to them despite Thomas playing well the three games previous to the bench but it was still great coaching and lesson-giving and Paxson shouldn’t just trade players to trade them he should only do it for really, really good players like Chris Kaman.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree! I am worried that they would do something stupid out of desperation.
We still have a very good young core that is missing something. I wish I knew what it is and could get some. This team is driving me a bit crazy.
by chgobr on Dec 29, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I've been pointing out since early in the season...
the players are not the primary problem – VDN is. He is woefully ill-equipt for the job, and should be fired. Put Del Harris in charge, and you will see a much better, more disciplined team.
I’m not suggesting that the Bulls don’t need to change the roster – of course they do. But we are witnessing a team which is underperforming badly, and lacks the basic discipline and intelligent coaching to come anywhere close to their potential.
I’m not going to tick off the long list of specific examples of why VDN is so disastrously bad, but I will add this: it is extremely painful to see a talent like Derrick Rose floundering under such a weak coach. Rose, in spite of his athleticism, and as promising as he is, has been a defensive liability thus far. Worse yet, there are virtually no signs of him getting better. Now how is this possible? Given his well-reported seriousness and work ethic, coupled with his raw athletic ability, how could he be as bad defensively now as he was at the beginning of the season? It’s astounding, really, and the only possible explanation is that VDN hasn’t got the slightest clue.
Of course there is blame to go around – front office, assistant coaches, etc. But the attitudes you are seeing from Nocioni and Hughes, etc., would never see the light of day if they were playing under a coach for whom they had respect. These are clear signs – especially from Nocioni – that the team is grossly underperforming, and that the head coach is far too weak and inexperienced to hold them together.
And to those of you who are criticizing Nocioni are missing an important point: his attitude is exactly what is missing from many of his teammates. Yes, it’s true – as was pointed out in the initial post – that he needs to channel that energy more productively. But how many times have we seen TT grin sheepishly after doing something stupid? Or Hughes take an ignorant shot, and no one on the floor upbraids him for it? Nocioni is one of the very few current Bulls who has the heart to give an ordinary team a chance to do some extraordinary things. He’s not a perfect player by a long stretch, but don’t underrate the importance of his attitude.
by badnewsintennisshoes on Dec 29, 2008 8:58 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
So it's a positive to be bad at something but criticize others (even vaguely) for being bad at it?
That sounds hypocritical and not the right attitude at all.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not hypocritical to give all your have and attempt to stop the other team, but when your desire is eclipsed by your talent.. some might call you Noc.
But, when your talent exists, but your desire is on vacation, then we have a sad day.
Did Noah and Tyrus forget that they probably can out jump, and out run most players in the NBA.
Could you imagine Noah and Tyrus dripping with sweat during or after a Bull’s game?
Have you ever seem Noc hair dripping with sweat and frustration?
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Noc is just sweaty
the hair?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
especially when he runs the court continuelly and pumps his fists with emotions....
despite his lack of foot quickness.
Wow. I imagine I’m starting to take on John Paxson characteristics in defending Noc….
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Play of the Day..
“And to those of you who are criticizing Nocioni are missing an important point: his attitude is exactly what is missing from many of his teammates”
Trade Noc, and we are left with passive choir boy Captains of Kirk and Deng. Gooden comes to play, for a contract at least.
Is it so hard to see …
Immediately after a game, Bulls players barely need to take a shower let alone towel themselves off. Did someone suggest that “they gave all they had”
Yet this Christmas Kobe and KG would need every unused dry towel in the Bulls locker room playing 110% both ways (defense&offense).
Where is the motivation? Where is the help defense? Where is the veteran leadership? Where are the PJ Brown’s, Joe Smith’s
The Bulls against Boston, only losing by 13 pts with 9 minutes still to play, the team threw in the towel, played the backups so as to rest “young players” for a back-2-back game, and still lost the 2nd game. The attitude should have been “We don’t care that Boston has won 19 games, if we win and break their streak we’ll at least eclispe ESPN highlights for at least a day” Bad coaching, soft players, soft organization.
I know H.S. teams and coaches that work harder!
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re: boston
hard to try when your coach throws in the scrubs. we made the run against the 2nd string and i think we really could have another run in us… but vinny threw in the scrubs. not to say it was only his fault but i thought he was the one who threw in the towel first.
by Jaina on Dec 29, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely .. he's a rookie coach
Yet, I didn’t see any players complaints or any indication they wanted to continue to play. Hey! coach this is “a national televised game, lets not go down like this…”
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that one wasn't nationally televised
the first one was.
no, as i said, certainly the team shrugged its shoulders at that point, but again, i think he was the one leading the defeatist charge there.
by Jaina on Dec 29, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nocioni for motivational speaker!
better than Lou Holtz.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um, they won that 2nd game after resting the starters against Boston
I didn’t watch the game, but it makes sense to me. They aren’t going to come back IN Boston…that’s a talent issue, not a ‘soft’ issue.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're correct
I thought the game against the Pistons was the 2nd game. My error!
Are you now saying VDN made a good decision?
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I have no problems with that decision
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually thought the Bulls could have won the game in Boston
There was lots of clock to work with and the starters were rested, the bench had battled back into the game, but the starters sat and sat at the discretion of Del Negro so they’d have juice for second leg of the back to back.
Play your bench at home. Work for the victories that are within reach.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 29, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the victory was in reach
when the stepped in the building. It’s not like the Celtics have letdowns, either.
But that’s coming from someone who was predisposed to giving up to the point where I didn’t even watch it :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They did not play well against Boston
The Bulls starters dominated the Celtics bench. Whenever Boston’s starting lineup was in the game it was a clear blowout. Vinny made the right choice in letting the bench guys get some burn.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Leader Rose also added his two cents.
“We play so well at the offensive end, but we can’t stop anybody,” Rose said. “It takes practice. We have principles at the defensive end. Our lack of size gives us challenges. But we have to fight through it. There are no excuses. This is the NBA.”
Now that sounds like an indictment of Del Negro is I have ever heard one…they need to practice…
All they should be practicing is defense…these guys all know how to score, and when it breaks down they can just put the ball in Rose’s hand and wait for him to make something happen…look at Cleveland since coach Brown arrived, their offense was often Lebron ISO to make something happen…but their defense was always sound…they made it to the finals with that philosophy. And that team had both Hughes and Gooden playing big minutes.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
well they need offense too
unless they believe the ‘give the ball to Rose or Gordon and stand around’ offense is sustainable.
Anyway, I thought the Bulls wouldn’t hire D’Antoni because of money he didn’t practice defense?
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What does the New York coach have to do with Del Negro's practice habits?
The best player on the team specifically said the team plays well offensively but cannot stop anyone. Rose said it takes practice. The implication being the team is not practicing its defensive principles that Del Negro has attempted to instill…
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the best player on the team is wrong
they’re still 21st in the league on offense.
And I’ll let my swipe at management re: D’Antoni stand for itself.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, stats don't lie.
I still maintain practicing their defensive principles would improve their overall defensive performance.
I don’t understand the D’Antoni remark…especially in the context of this discussion.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose says they aren't currently practicing defense enough under VDN
the Bulls were skittish on D’Antoni because he didn’t practice defense enough.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
also
not playing Gray/Noc together would be a good principle, and you don’t even need to practice it.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reinsdorf was specific that D'Antoni did not care enough about defense to warrant a job in Chicago
Since Vinny apparently can’t get his guys to practice the most basic of defensive principles, I would have preferred the Bulls with another coach. Alas, Vinny is going to be here for 2 seasons at the least, so hopefully he figures out how to not run this into the ground.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 29, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I don't think he's getting canned anytime soon
besides, it makes even a GM with a lifetime contract look shaky if he backtracks on a major decision this quickly.
So I’m up for trading some annoyances out of his way to at least give him a better chance at success. Or maybe trading guys he can’t help himself from playing.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
I didn’t read that quote from Reinsdorf regarding D’Antoni and practice…I thought it was a money thing…in that D’Antoni wanted a lot while the Bulls were offering a little.
" I've looked at these numbers and decided the #1 problem
is that Ben Gordon is selfish..." -your friendly bulls blogger
by Dionysus2.0 on Dec 29, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that may have been the only REAL reason
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well golly, if he said it wasn't about money, then it must not have been about money :)
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Dec 29, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got 11th on NBA.com
NBA.com says they are 11th in the leauge in scoring at 100.2 a game and 5th worst in the leauge with scoring defense at 103.
But stats aside the Bulls can score when they shoot well (which has been a lot this season) and they never never never play D.
by Jscho316 on Dec 29, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's because they play at a fast pace
Offensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) is a better stat, since it equalizes for pace.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 29, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are
21st in the league on offense because we have no C….not because our guards are crap.
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Quote of the millenium
“Anyway, I thought the Bulls wouldn’t hire D’Antoni because of money he didn’t practice defense?”. That ought to be your new banner, signature, hell, name of the blog!
by California Al on Dec 29, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ben Gordon also said the same
They know they are ill prepared and Vinny does not teach defense.
by Fastbreak on Dec 29, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose's D
will take time. VDN can’t keep practicing Noah if Noah’s not going to try. Aaron Gray will never be a defender (too slow). Drew Gooden’s been traded as often as he has been despite posessing a lot of considerable talents because he’s a god awful defender. Hughes has the skill set to be a good defender and once upon a time he was, but nowaday’s he’s a risk taker. Deng is an ok defender, who tries hard. Nocioni’s an ok defender who tries really hard, but isn’t athletic enough. Ben Gordon has nice defensive skills but can either be unfocused there at times or is too short to be upper crust. Thabo’s a decent defender who’s overrated defensively based on a couple of good defensive games, plus he’s been asked to guard SF’s who overpower him a bit too much instead of SG’s, where he could hold his own a bit more consistently, and that’s mainly because GOrdon’s overall the better player. Rose needs help defensively but to make the significant adjustments there while learning the rest of the game is a lot to ask for a 20 yr old, he’ll be fine.
Our best defender Kirk Hinrich, is hurt until Feb….
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Our best defender Kirk Hinrich"
we are therefore really in trouble … Kirk has been getting burnt the last 1 1/2 years most all PGs and SGs.
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kirk
Hasn’t played much this year….and he got burnt a bit last year thanks to playing SF too much (sans the horrid Kirk game against Cuttino Mobley)…
We are in trouble though because we need the no nonsense PF/C defender we haven’t had since Chandler left.
Imagine a Rose-Gordon-Deng-Tyrus-Chandler team to build off of….that would be solid.
by majoyenrac on Dec 29, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They can't outscore most teams.
They have some good offensive players but not a great scorer. Without D, this team is in the lottery again. I predicted that Milwaukee will out perform the Bulls. Primarily because of defense.
by Fastbreak on Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
VDN has no backbone
The reason players are subtly (and not-so-subtly) questioning the coaching in the papers is because they know they can get away with it. Hughes bitched about his playing time earlier in the season, and was rewarded with more playing time. You can be a “players coach” or whatever, but you can’t be a doormat.
Everything that has happened the past season and a half has just demonstrated what a good job Skiles did (at least before last season).
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 29, 2008 11:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This assessment isn't fair ..
If PaxsDorf called you this summer and offered you the head coaching job… in the lasting words of the rapper out of Detroit
“would you take it”
Would you stand tall and take the challenge….
Let’s be fair, he(VDN) probably never coached a basketball game in his life as the head coach.
Does the Paxsdorfs clan have backbone or money concerns for selecting him, might be a good question to start with?
Still your assessment of Skiles might have some merit while operating in a Paxsdorf world, therefore I’ll hold my judgement on Skiles until I see what the Bucks will do within the years to come.
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't mean he has to let players walk all over him
I’ve never coached a game in my life either, but even I know that a coach can’t cave in when a player bitches in the papers about his minutes. That just kills an authority figure’s credibility. Like everyone else, I expected him to make a lot of mistakes early on, but that’s a pretty basic thing.
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 29, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
This has the look of something that will make it much harder for Vinny to (start) doing his job. Theres a whole lot of ego between us and what should be we should be doing and the only thing Vinny has to fall back on is his hair and not making things worse.
by reprisal on Dec 29, 2008 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
what the bulls team thinks when they play:
Deng: I already got my money, Hey, I thought I was your main man?!
Noc: Flop, Flop, Flop, Flop (I have to rehearse my lines for the locker interviews)
Noah: First, I have to jump and then scream.
Tyrus: I believe I can fly.
Gray: I’m wearing feather light undies tonight, I should be fast enough.
BG: Wait! Time out ref! I can’t find my man-slave..
Thabo: Why is Joakim always in the middle during huddle?
Gooden: I have to make a turn-around fade-away dunk….wait! Jump shots, Yes! I remember now, I can make them.
Kirk: Where did my mojo go?
Rose: I am The Law!
Hunter: “I remember back in the day……”(daydreams)
Simmons: I look like Tmac..
I didn’t include Ruffin because he hasn’t played yet.
Please don’t get me wrong. I watch the Bulls and I really like this team but the way they’re playing this season is so unacceptable for me. I’m done criticizing them so I just thought of making fun of them for a change in this blog site.
And no disrespect to any player, I know I can still expect something good from this team in the second half of the season but should they fail, well,..I still can make comments like this in the future.
Go BULLS!
by Aiafati on Dec 29, 2008 11:56 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Noah: "Man, I've been on the court for 3 minutes. I'm tired."
Hughes: “Time for an 18 foot jumper.”
Tyrus: blank
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 29, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah: "I'm hungry"
Kirk: “why does everything always happen to me?”
Ben: “You got the contract, YOU play defense!”
TT: “Kobe doesn’t have to stay under the basket”.
Gray: “I’m hungry”.
Hughes: “And he’ll have fun, fun, fun ’til his daddy takes the PT away”.
Noc: “Macho, macho man…”.
Thabo: “And your American banks, watches and chocolate suck, too”.
Vinnie: “Man, I thought Harris and Bickerstaff were supposed to take care of the coachy thingies.”
Deng: “Ouch”
by California Al on Dec 29, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Great Post!
It is better to laugh than cry which this team seems to make me do more than anything!
by chgobr on Dec 29, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are on to something ..
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 29, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hughes:
“I AM THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD! I NEED THE BALL FOR AN ISO! SHOOT, LARRY! SHOOT! YOU CAN DO IT! YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!”
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 29, 2008 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff.
This was a very good read, and sadly, i can’t say that I disagree with any of the things you wrote.
by dakoose on Dec 29, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How can you want a trade with players that are (seemingly) untradeable?
Much less, for a valuable player in return? Would you like to see another Ben Wallace trade, where Hughes and the other derelicts on the Bulls team get bartered away for roughly the equivalent player?
I take solace in the fact that Wallace is gone; if he were in Chicago, I doubt Thomas and Noah would see as little time as they do right now. And at least this is Gooden’s last year.
This team is plainly not going to be good for the next coming years.
by NittanyCub on Dec 29, 2008 2:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Blog a Bull
Related FanShots on Blog a Bull
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
