A couple of thoughts on blogabull from a newbie
Hey everyone--
Admin--your site is great. Its my favorite Bulls resource and I want to thank you for running it. The commenters are, for the most part, knowledgeable and i've learned a lot from the site.
A couple of thoughts:
You guys are SO negative. Not that there's any problem with criticism, but the tone seems to be out of step with what is going on. Maybe you disagree with matchups or playing time--but I don't think that this team has so badly underperformed as to deserve the verbal thrashing it gets every day. Again, I think this is mainly a problem of tone.
I think that the people here become infatuated with high-ceiling players and have trouble seeing that they often suck in actuality. I know it would be great if Noah and Thomas were allstars but the fact is that if Vinny puts them out they will play badly right now and the team will probably lose more games. I think we need to keep this in perspective. Maybe they will be good some day but right now they both kind of suck. There is something to be said for letting them play out their mistakes all the time, but I don't think that it is as obvious as you (mostly) seem to think. Let the good players play. If Thomas and Noah want to play more they should GET BETTER.
So, fun site. Rose rocks. Some players just kind of suck, even though they might someday be good, and shouldn't play all the time. And we should think more about the positives of this season. Thanks.
FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
3 recs |
108 comments
Comments
Hi
See thats the thing, a lot of people completely disagree with most of what you said and believe we would play better if they were playing more Thomas, Noah and Thabo.
by reprisal on Dec 22, 2008 10:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Let the good players play."
Like Aaron Gray?
Why resort to name calling?
-Dionysus2.0
because I wish to insult you personally
-your friendly BullsBlogger
by Big D on Dec 22, 2008 10:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
would be nice
if these professional athletes would actually show more growth from season to season I agree, I know players need playing time to learn from mistakes, improve, gain confidence etc …. but I also think it is not too much to ask professional athletes to spend more time improving during offseason and through practice and earn more playing time
problem with the Bulls is they don’t really have great players that should be keeping their young players on the bench, and for example when Thomas gets mins he has had some good games which shows potential so more consistant playing time eventually seems like good idea … if not now when? they need to know now
agree to your point that Bulls fans on here can be overly negative but at the same time they also think players could be a lot better .. so its werid mix of hope as well …. I guess eventually we all just wish Bulls were more clear with what they are trying to do and players just prove themselves as star or bust …. although if we think pratical, we must know that most players are just avg.
one more random thought, I think the problem with a guy like Deng on the Bulls is that other then Gordon and Rose they lack a player that on any given night can have big off night to carry the team, Deng is paid like a guy who could do that (I hate to bring up salary but Bulls management seems to care about cap), but he is just consistantly good, most of time he will give you something but how often do we say Deng really won the game for us?
by NY Chicago Fan on Dec 22, 2008 11:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Bulls fans are too negative?
Why, because we expected good things out of our players? Thomas, Noah, and Deng should all be better, they’re not, and to make matters worse Tyrus and Joakim still don’t enough minutes in a gimmick-heavy lineup. There is a lack of continuity or flow offensively. We get solid contributions from Rose and Gordon, then it’s a fill in the blank with the rest of the roster, a different guy filling in the 3rd option role every game.
It’s been pointed out a million times, but Rose was not supposed to be this good this early. We all expected he was going to have to adjust to everyone while Luol returned to form and the team
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 11:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the positivity.
And telling us that our tone is wrong, we’re too negative, and that our potential-laden picks – in actuality – suck.
I feel better?
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Dec 23, 2008 12:38 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
+1
I thought it was just me. Wanna know what’s negative? Saying that an NBA player sucks.
by California Al on Dec 23, 2008 1:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
does that same rule apply for former players acting in executive roles?
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nope, I think it's the anti-rule
McHale, Jordan, Thomas, Baylor. Maybe it’s only great players who assume that their talent translates.
by California Al on Dec 26, 2008 1:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel the pain...
I’m an intense fan, I’m just as basketball obsessed as anybody else around here… but at the same time, I feel like I enjoy being a basketball fan a lot more than some, I think a lot of people enjoy being a basketball critic more than a fan.
Sure, I can point out players that aren’t playing well, and there is plenty of negative things you can say about Vinny, but that’s the breaks, we have a young team and a rookie coach. So, I can’t pretend to be too upset that they make mistakes. I’m happy that we are winning some of our games during what would be an otherwise brutal learning process. And, I’m thrilled to be watching Rose develop into a supa-dupa-star.
One piece of advice, keep in mind that this is one persons blog. “Your Favorite Bulls Blogger” is a guy named Matt who started this blog, and over the years, it attracted so much attention that the rest of us started reading more often, and Matt let us join in, and post our thoughts and feeling too. So, even though Matt complains a lot, and I hate the way he needlessly picks on Aaron Gray, it’s his place, so… he can do that. Just grin and bear it. It’s worth it, cause when he isn’t being needlessly skeptical and negative, he makes some great points, he certainly knows the game well.
I do think that the blog has taken a more negative tone in the last two years… and I often wish it hadn’t, but it’s still the best place to find intelligent fans talking about the Bulls.
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Dec 23, 2008 3:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That negative tone came with the losses
It’s normal. When our team wins, even when we play poorly, people are happy… VDN becomes the best coach on earth and Gray a better player than Shaq – just kidding, he’ll never be like Shaq.
I remember a few games this season that we played awful and still won. During the game, we were ripping on everybody, besides Rose. But on the last minutes we won. And guess what. All that hate disappeared in an instance and we started talking about winning the next game, getting two/three wins in a row… So, I don’t give so much importance to that. Hell, we keep criticizing VDN for not playing the best players, but the teams won some games and is in a play-off spot. I want TT and Noah and Thabo to play, but I prefer to see Bulls win. I don’t give a crap if they do that with Hunter, Ruffin, Simmons or… Hughes!
http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)
by bull83 on Dec 23, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tone
There is no tone because this is a blog and you have to read it. The only tone that you hear is the voice you use in your head when you read. Your voice mind needs an attitude adjustment, lol :P
by J Theory on Dec 23, 2008 8:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Um yea...
take some reading classes.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love this site.
I look forward to reading/commenting on this site daily. it’s great for Bulls fans that live in other states that want to be able to discuss our team with other Bulls fans.
Trade proposals almost always get shot down but thats OK because if everyone felt the same way all the time then this site wouldn’t be very interesting. What I do see here is that everyone feels the same way about the Bulls Center position and wanting the Bulls to make a trade to get Kaman here.
When VDN got the job both him and Paxson said that it would take several years for us to become a contending team and that they would try to develope our young players and it’s frustrating because that is not what they’re doing. The players we are playing out there are Gooden, Hughes and Nocioni which is not developing the young players. I would just hate to see us trade our younger guys to a team that is going to keep them on the court and them becoming allstar caliber players.
by PricanStar on Dec 23, 2008 11:25 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice first post
Very well said, as you can see people don’t appreciate the honesty much. It can be very negative here and you have to be so strong about your opinion or else people will yell at you. There is no room for middle ground I guess.
But overall, it’s a great place to keep up on what’s going on with the team. And generally, people can be nice. It’s just never as dreary at it reads here. You’re not the first to point out all the negativity.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 11:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
to me, saying it doesn't matter if Aaron Gray starts or not
is the most negative thing one could say about this team. I think I’m actually really positive, I still believe!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. You believe this team is better than one that would have Aaron Gray starting.
Sounds pretty positive.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of the negativity is directed at management
Paxson not having a plan, Paxson giving huge extensions to players that don’t deserve them, Paxson hiring rookie coaches.
Jordan left after the 1998 season, which is now 10 seasons ago. 10 years later, we’ve won one playoff series and are struggling to get to .500 with a now veteran team.
It’s great we got Derrick Rose, but it’s also very sad that 9 years after the Jordan era we had the #1 pick in the draft. I think the negative tone of this board fits the state of the organization.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but everyone wants instant gratification
rather than take a look around. What teams are making drastic moves to re-shape. We just saw two huge trades in LA/Boston that make it seem like moving rosters is easy. If you look at the last 10 years, players are rarely moved around the way they are expected to be by fans. Usually teams add one player and one rookie each year. Other than that, not much else changes. And when they do, nothing is usually gained or lost. For example, AI for Andre Miller was a big deal at the time, didn’t really help anyone but I guess kept the fans happy.
If everyone stopped having unrealistic expectations, maybe GMs wouldn’t take so much heat around here.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's not instant gratification at all
I want the crud out, for the long awful process of a Tyrus/Noah future.
Also, I want Aaron Gray traded.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are the Bulls short of practice basketballs?
by Granny Waiters on Dec 23, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe with the surplus,
we can get a big man coach!
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 24, 2008 12:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
matt
one day you’ll see the value of being a veteran in its true sense, as oppose to being a Bulls veteran at the age of 23.
Myth or not?
1) Young nba players only can develop getting plenty of playing time?
2) Entitlement births complacency and bloated possible questionable contracts/extentions?
3) There is value gained in motivating youth by giving presidence to real veteran senority?
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mmm
Gray makes less than 1 million annually and is a good backup. Its not his fault Paxson signs veterans like Michael Ruffin, trades Tyson, miscalclates with Ben Wallace.
Probably everyone here probably would love Noc, Kirk and Deng to remain a Bull if their annual contract was more in line with 5, 4, 5 million, respectively. Paxson’s entitlement strategy, which you verbally endorse, forces starters pay for non nba starters and salary cap stagnation.
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did you just suggest that deng and noc get the same?
and deng for 5 mil? i know he’s playing like shit right now, but his contract is right in line with what the market was like and what he was producing up till now.
by Jaina on Dec 24, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jaina
my main point is entitlement, an the lack of veteran barriers, and real competition which many teams use to keep young players in line and help match their real value to a salary.
Our assumption is Deng is a top ten SF in the NBA, whereas I believe Deng might not start against real competition unless he elevated his game. But he was never put to the test. I always feel if Deng was on the same team as the Blazers Outlaw, or now for the matter Bulls Larry Hughes Paxson would have been more able to set his contract accordingly. How much does Blazers Outlaw make?
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just because a player
previous averaged 18 ppg on a team lacking offensive weapons (aside from BG) means exactly what it really means.. Not much! On a good team, or a better team with a real option besides BG as the Bulls are now becoming, Deng’s real 13 ppg with loads of starter minutes starts to emerge. Many backup SF can average 13 ppg if given 40 minutes a night.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe Deng can be better with proper development, but if I could get the same production with a 3.5 million player like Travis Outlaw, then I need to try to stay flexible to sign D. Rose later and another star player whose not currenly on the team.
I’m not sure how much Outlaw makes, but I know they also have Webster, and loads of other talent whom they won’t resign for Deng type money. Outlaw does exactly the types of offensive things we discussed earlier, and his defense is good.
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as good as a young Tony Parker was
Pop, a good coach/GM, kept him guessing with “possible trade 4 jason kidd” which motivated Parker to take his game to the next level and develop not only quickness but an effective jump shot and three pointer. Many knew that trade was never going to materialize!
What has “entitlement” Kirk Hinrich develop since becoming a Bull… I’ll tell you what … “he developed into a backup point guard”. And this isn’t a slam against Kirk, he was immediately crown a “knight”, air apparent to John Stockton, Michael Jordan and Captain Kirk. Who never, never, never had a mentor or any preceived competition at his position. Jamal Crawford was shipped out immediately and Duhon was never taken seriously.
Now, entitlement Deng’s competition (Hughes and 3 year experienced Thabo) finally arrives after he resigns for 72 million. Noc previously outplayed Deng in every aspect of NBA basektball until he went down with the injury (approximately 1.5 years to totally heal), but we forget this and move a shorter Noc to PF. Aside from minor quickerness, which player (Deng or Noc) has better handles? hands down … Noc from always stripped in the lane deng.
All because Paxson plan was to start off with youth and all the players about the same age to develop together. A NBA champion team never fit this mode, and I would say never will. A good mixture of veterans provide the necessary balance this team lacks, plus many good veterans don’t cost much and provide much. Unless you’re Michael Ruffin, who also doesn’t cost much and also provides accordingly less.
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Denver could have got Chauncey Billups for Miller, right?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again you're looking short term.
Just like 3 months after the AI trade, Nugget fans would be telling you how they fleeced the 76ers. In the end, they aren’t winning the West. This just helps alleviate dumping Camby for nothing I guess. Teams get good by adding stars and building strong organizations around those stars. The Bulls now have 1 (Rose) with 2 potential other key players (Gordon/Deng). Starting Gray for example doesn’t affect that in any form or fashion. TT and Noah will not be stars. They can be role players, as can Gray. And yes I do value TT and Noah higher than Gray.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you agree we only have 1 star
Then making a drastic move to either 1) free up salary for 2010 or 2) add another star is a “realistic expectation” since we don’t have the star power to compete.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes something should be done.
But straight salary dump is extremely risky. Most teams seem to have a right place, right time strategy (lakers-Gasol, celtics-garnett/allen, pistons-rasheed). They don’t force trades. They acquire assets and keep opportunities open for the right time. I can’t think of a team that has salary dumped and won a title other than Lakers with shaq. Even then, I don’t think they salary dumped, they just had expiring contracts.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Celtics didn't force a trade?
They won 24 games the year before they won a title. The Heat won 42 games the year before they traded for Shaq and they were champions two years later.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No KG was thrown in their laps
Everyone now agrees it was a bad deal. A year earlier the Bulls made a better offer but the TWolves weren’t ready to deal him. Then they were and Boston offered them Al Jeff and cap relief.
The Heat had DWade. They used everyone else they had to get Shaq, but only because that very offseason, Kobe made the Lakers get rid of Shaq. If it had been a year before, the Heat wouldn’t have gotten Shaq. He would have been traded to some other team. Either that or DWade would have been in the deal.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So we're going the whole "only-do-what-the-champions-do" route.
And the “right time, right place” strategy is less risky than a proactive move? Holy crap, dude. You’ve jumped the shark.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you name the deal that makes sense?
Or the deal Pax missed on? What player should he have gotten but didn’t?
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not say he has missed before this year.
But there are clearly players on this team that have no future with what the new direction should be. There are also players that have less value now than what they did before. Both L.A. and Minnesota got either young players or soon-to-be expiring contracts. Hinrich and Nocioni are neither. Thabo, Thomas, Noah, Gooden and Hughes are the types of “assets” you speak of holding onto. And I agree with that. They should hold onto those players until a deal that is really good comes along.
Yes, I’d be all for keeping Hinrich in the back-court if I thought Paxson had a solid plan. And maybe he does. I’m still not seeing it, though. Hinrich and Nocioni are not assets in the way you think they are. Hinrich is hurt now and most likely (although not definitely) won’t bring his value back up to where you think it should be before the trade dead line. Which leaves the summer… or after another couple of months backing up Rose and Gordon.
Nocioni should be dumped for crap. Hinrich isn’t there yet, but he shouldn’t be held onto like he’s going to bring back some All-Star level player. He’s not one. He was once (in my made-up language), a first-tier non-All-Star. He’s not that anymore. Getting back something similar to what he once was (like Kaman) BUT with a more friendly contract (like Brad Miller) is unlikely. I’d rather not risk the unlikely when it’s the difference between a possibly long-term crutch or helpful-but-not-difference-making player.
I think he needs to be traded this season for a shorter contract, especially if Nocioni isn’t traded. Whatever the deal. If Paxson is confident he can trade him for a bag of balls at the deadline if nothing “good” comes along, and is okay with that, then hold out to the end.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am OK with dumping Nocioni for "crap"
as long as the “crap” has expiring contracts.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the team has been completely turned upside down in 6 months
And Pax made a point of not making many moves until he knew who played with Rose. So really he’s only had a few months to make a move. If by the trade deadline nothing is done I see having a beef. But as for now, there’s barely been any time to make a deal.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 24, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's still his fault for thinking Kirk Hinrich was a SG.
That’s bad talent evaluation, plain and simple. Hinrich had value this summer, and in line with the value you’re talking about (yes, we can’t assume ALL rumors are true, but if we want to have anything to talk about, we have to assume some of them).
I don’t know “exactly” what Hinrich was worth since he hasn’t been traded, but I’ll be surprised if it’s as high as it was this summer. Anyone who thought Hinrich was a legitimate option at SG is a nincompoop. I understand wanting to hold off on Gordon, but then your alternative is going to be elsewhere, not in Hinrich. That was bad GM’ing.
And Nocioni was still given a bad contract and is even worse now. He should have been traded already.
You can make excuses as long as you want, though.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't "think" Hinrich is a sg,
but when was it decided he wasn’t? He played the position in college and for 6 games with the Bulls. He was also part time sg when duhon was on the court. It’s possible he could play the position effectively.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 26, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think hinrich can play minutes there, sure
but he’s not a STARTING caliber sg, so to have him as the insurance if gordon leaves as the starting 2, is pretty much not an option and bad scouting.
by Jaina on Dec 26, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see how that's true.
Especially playing next to a star PG. He’s hovered around a 15 PER for his career. 15 PER = league average starter. That’s not counting his at least average defense. If he can do it, once again an if, his numbers don’t seem to agree with your comment.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 26, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but his 15 PER is while he’s been mostly playing PG. what’s it like playing SG? i just don’t think he’s a starting caliber SG. PG, sure. and i’m not basing it on anything but watching. a shooting guard is supposed to be able to shoot the ball, and he’s a career 41% FG%. hughes is the same, and he sucks too! and exactly why thabo should probably be playing minutes at SF instead.
by Jaina on Dec 26, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh
and the other problem with your comment?
15 PER = league average. not average starter.
by Jaina on Dec 26, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
see hollinger's own site
http://www.alleyoop.com/prates.shtm
15 is rated as pretty good player, just below 3rd banana on his listing. You’re forgetting it’s not average of all players in the league, it’s average per 48 minutes. This year 127 players have a per of 15 despite 360 total players in the league.
A Year For the Ages: 35.0
Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0
Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5
Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0
Bona fide All-Star: 22.5
Borderline All-Star: 20.0
Solid 2nd option: 18.0
3rd Banana: 16.5
Pretty good player: 15.0
In the rotation: 13.0
Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
Definitely renting: 9.0
On next plane to Yakima: 5.0
by CJ Bulls on Dec 27, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what Jaina said.
He’s been slightly above league-average as a PG. Therefore, he’s been about league-average as a SG as he’s entering his prime (obviously, I allow that most players will be below average as young players). That’s not a good back-up plan. League-average (again, not starter, but ALL SG’s) is not a suitable replacement. I don’t understand how you can accept it as such.
FURTHER, Scotter gave plenty of scouting reasons why he wouldn’t be a good SG next to a ball-dominating PG like Rose. For one, he’s not a great catch-and-shoot shooter. He’s much, much better shooting off of the dribble.
Finally, Rose was expected to take time to develop. He wasn’t going to be a “superstar PG” for a few years, at the earliest. That makes Hinrich 29, 30 years old before he’s playing next to an actual superstar PG. So, you’re expecting someone who has been league-average at SG, to somehow be better than that while he hits the typical decline of a career. Is that possible? Sure. Is it likely? I don’t see how.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 27, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See above
it’s not all players, it’s of all minutes. And right now there’s no backup pg solidified. I want the team to re-sign BG too. But if they can’t, Hinrich appears to be a possibility at sg. Here are the teams in the NBA with a worse SG than Hinrich:
Knicks
Raptors
Cavs
Bobcats
Magic
Wizards
Warriors
Clippers
Hornets
TWolves
Thunder
Jazz
So they’d be OK at SG and still have backup PG minutes filled for Rose.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 27, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Might be okay if...
notice a trend
Knicks – Bad, have scoring bigs
Raptors – Bad, have scoring bigs
Cavs – Great, LBJ, very strong front court
Bobcats – terrible
Magic – Very Good, Dwight Howard
Wizards – terrible, supposed to have Gilbert
Warriors – terrible, supposed to have Monta
Clippers – terrible, scoring bigs
Hornets – Very Good, CP3, lots of F&C scoring
TWolves – terrible
Thunder – terrible
Jazz – Deron, lots big scoring
hmmmm….
by reprisal on Dec 27, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK I don't see what your trend is?
The point is Hinrich isn’t a problem. He’s a net positive or even player. IF you lose Gordon, he can fill the role. Dropping him for nothing or putting some mid-level player in his place at SG won’t make the team any better. If they can trade hinrich for a big, fine. It just doesn’t seem very likely at this point so you might as well use him.
P.S. Gilbert and Monta play PG, not SG
by CJ Bulls on Dec 27, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to make up for it somewhere else
or you suck.
Gilbert and Monta are more combo guards…no matter what you call them they score a lot. Theyre teams probably wouldnt be great even if they had them. Derrick could probably do this too eventually tho.
If the Bulls fix all their other weaknesses, then it might be acceptable to have Kirk at SG. But even then they’d still most likely be better off with BG.
The Cavs, Magic and Hornets have top 6-7 or so front courts in the league. The Bulls have just about the worst at the moment. The Jazz have a pretty solid front court and theyre the only other respectable team on your list.
Most people want to get rid of Hinrich so we dont lose Gordon or can use his cap space for something better. I mean ya if things unfold in such away that you have to, then you try Kirk @ SG, but that probably means were in trouble.
by reprisal on Dec 27, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, the Bulls have...
…either bad players, uncertain futures of players at every position except PG right now. Getting even worse at another position before getting better doesn’t seem to be the answer to me.
So basically, if your SG position is bad enough that Hinrich is an improvement, then you either have a great frontcourt or have a terrible team. I think I am starting to see Paxson and CJ Bulls’ strategy now.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 27, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get your point
What I am saying is that SG doesn’t have to be a critical position. I would prefer to see a good big added. But Hinrich can’t be traded for a good big, so what can they do? Just trade him for expiring contracts? That solves nothing, it just further strips them of competent players. There aren’t all-star SGs on every block ready to be picked up. And if you do invest the $$ in one, odds are you won’t have enough to afford the necessary bigs.
Also note, this is all based on the concept of BG leaving for nothing this summer. If BG re-signs, then yes it is time to move Hinrich.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 28, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They should have re-signed Gordon...
…and traded Hinrich this past summer. That’s the biggest point.
And trading Hinrich for expirings gives the team a chance to get better in the future, including keeping Gordon on the team. If they get an expiring contract this year, they can re-sign Gordon. If they can get one for 2010, they can go after someone else.
They’d be trading an asset before it was no longer an asset. I understand it’s a foreign concept because Paxson has rarely done that recently. Hinrich won’t play more than 15 minutes per game at PG, if that much, when he comes back. He is not as good at SG as at PG, so a higher proportion of minutes there will make him look worse. While we’d like to think that GM’s are nuanced and will still think he’s a viable PG (if he comes back and even performs there), after seeing how easy it was for Walsh to offload contracts, I question that.
This team is (or should be) re-building. A re-building team needs financial flexibility, especially when it lacks a creative GM and has a stingy owner. Dumping Hinrich for expiring contracts helps create that financial flexibility. I’ve said this. Others have said this. Simply ignoring that fact doesn’t make it less true.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll stop bringing up Gray if you do.
while it’s true that only you look silly in the process, I’m no less sick of reading it.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that's all perspective.
In a few years when you realize that Gray had no effect good or bad on the future other than perhaps motivating TT and Noah, you’ll wonder why you wasted so much time pouting about Gray starting.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the whole thing was silly. So you both looked silly.
And I’m probably the biggest Aaron Gray fan around here, I’ve met him a few times, he’s a great guy.
I think he has over-achieved a little and I think he will develop a bit more and be in this league for a long time.
But, even I don’t want to argue about Aaron Gray all day. I want Noah to get better so there is no doubt who should start.
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Dec 23, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I run a friggin sports blog
clearly one day I’m going to look back and see a whole lot of wasted life, regardless of Aaron Gray.
I long stopped pouting about Gray starting, it was pouting about you insisting he should (or worse, that it didn’t matter). Him starting is a joke on us, I get that.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so it's like 4% me being jumpy (and not living up to my self-promise of dropping the discussion)
and the rest was you being incessantly and offensively stupid about this.
And that’s what we call: agree to disagree!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You still point to no reason why Gray shouldn't be starting
other than you don’t like that he’s slow. But I’m ok with agree to disagree.
As you can read by my first post on this thread, I didn’t want it to be a Gray is Gray-t post. He isn’t, but he’s not unservicable and he’s not playing any worse than the other two projects on the team. I just want to say it’s not a big deal, stop harping on the small stuff when the team has bigger problems. But it’s impossible to say that without 10 people jumping on you and saying you’re an idiot. That’s the biggest issue on the site I would say. Less free-flowing idea discussion, more trying to come down on people when they don’t agree with your views.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're right.
I should have been more dismissive and less combative with your viewpoints.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or just don't respond
unless you have a point. “Gray sucks,” is not a point by the way.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sure it's a point
saying ‘it doesn’t matter, there are worse problems’ isn’t a point.
besides, I want people with dumb opinions to fear posting them. So if you’re tentative that you might get yelled at, good. Post even less.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Even
Sam Smith has soured on Gray.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the souring?
He lumped TT Noah and Gray altogether. According to everyone else, TT and Noah are exponentionally better.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 24, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of weeks ago
Sam was writing about how Gray was the Bulls best big man based on his play.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty interesting article by Sam
Stating the obvious
Though Hughes’ play again raises the question of what the team is trying to accomplish down the road as Hughes played a team high 38 minutes and equaled Gordon with a team high 16 shots while Deng got seven and Sefolosha three.
and a lot of interesting talk on Deng including
He[Deng] turned a Rose miss into a score early and added a half hook right afterward, and then didn’t get a shot in the next 27 possessions and missed a short jumper just before halftime.
Thats the way to get a guy in rhythm!
by reprisal on Dec 24, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls fans are unhappy with Paxson's (non-)moves, and rightfully so
The Pistons traded for Rasheed and won a title.
The Heat traded for Shaq and won a title.
The Celtics traded for Garnett and Allen and won a title.
Sitting on your team worked for the Lakers and Spurs, but only because they hit the jackpot on draft day. We haven’t. If you don’t have enough stars on your team, you trade for one. And in five years on the job, the best established player Paxson has acquired through trade is PJ Brown.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
but only because they hit the jackpot on draft day.
We did now!
My name isn't Ron... I run a DJ and Karaoke business named Kidron Music... my name is Jesse...
by kidronmusic on Dec 23, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't hit the jackpot?
Where have you been?
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, right... 10 years after the fact
And it’s not like Derrick Rose can win us a title by himself. The Spurs drafted Duncan, Parker, AND Ginobili (and you can count David Robinson, too). That’s a whole different level of hitting the jackpot.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what star should Pax have traded for
or could he trade for right now? There aren’t any available. You can’t just snap your fingers and teams deal you star players.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It sounded like he could've traded for Kobe
or for Garnett, or for Gasol. I mentioned in the Deng post that we could trade for Rudy Gay, who I think would be a big improvement for us over Deng.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good God the Kobe trade still comes up here?
He was never going to be traded, especially here. Who cares what a crazed attention whore egomaniac of a basketball player says?
The KG deal, again nixed by McHale, Pax was ready to strip the young team up for a legit star.
The Gasol deal……well that one’s on Paxson, although I still defend keeping Deng I just look dumber every day for doing so.
CJ is right. Trades are a right place/right time thing. You can always be aggressive, on the phones and such. But making a deal just to make one gets you a Devin Harris for Jason Kidd, or Shawn Marion for Shaq.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And the Gasol deal would have backfired as well.
Deng and I assume Noah or TT for Gasol gets you what now. They no longer would have Rose. Are they winning championships with that team? No. Best case scenario you’re Orlando, a good team that will always finish short to the Celtica/Cavs/Lakers etc.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not that I disagree with the Gasol points
but don’t go down that path of saying everything’s ok because it wound up lucking into Rose. Missing the playoffs last year was still an embarrassment, even though they got the #1 pick. It belongs on the bad part of Paxson’s ledger, not the good part.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying Pax didn't pull the trigger because presumably it wasn't
putting them over the top. Deng, at the time, had the most room for growth. Moving him for Gasol means the team would be pretty much settled. Hinrich, Gordon, Noc?, Gasol, Ben Wallace. What were they winning. If Pax didn’t feel that was good enough, why be upset with him. Don’t you think Pax wanted Gasol?
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like you would be killing him either way.
-If he makes the Gasol deal, you (or others) would be saying how Pax saddled this team with a 45-50 win roster with little room for growth.
-If he doesn’t, you (or others) complain Pax never makes a move.
Rose was lucky, but how could Pax have won. There is no miracle scenario of moves the Bulls could have made that would make them great by this point. So why kill the guy on it?
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There were a lot of options
Look at the pieces Paxson had…
Jamal Crawford – traded for Othella Harrington and Frank Williams
Jalen Rose & Donyell Marshall – traded for Antonio Davis
Eddy Curry- traded for Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah
Tyson Chandler – traded for JR Smith and PJ Brown
JR Smith – traded for a 2nd round pick
In seasons since leaving the Bulls, Rose has scored 18ppg, Crawford 20ppg, Marshall averaged 16 and 10, Curry averaged 19 and 7, Chandler averaged 11 and 11, and JR Smith is averaging 18ppg since the Iverson trade.
That’s a lot of talent, and Paxson dumped them for nothing. A better GM turns those pieces into a contending team.
by YaoPau on Dec 23, 2008 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's just cherry-picking to the maximus
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When a GM has made 6 trades in 5 years
naming 5 of those 6 trades isn’t cherry picking. That’s a big portion of his work.
The Curry trade and Cleveland trade were okay, but the others were subpar. His drafting has been average, although his draft strategy (using lottery picks to draft final four character guys over potientially elite scorers) is terrible. And his free agent signings (Wallace, Joe Smith) and contract extensions (Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng) have set this team back a couple years. I’d love to hear what you think he’s above average at.
by YaoPau on Dec 24, 2008 3:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to write cherry picking because it wasn't
But that darn post button is too attractive.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 24, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because the Curry trade is still a steal
Nets 2 lottery picks, Tim Thomas, and Michael Sweetney. That’s 4 talented players right there.
You’re upset Paxson didn’t get more for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marhsall? Jamal Crawford was and still is an inefficient chucker who was easily replaced by Ben Gordon and Chris Duhon in 2004 draft. The only reprehensible trades were the Tyson and JR Smith moves because Pax got his expiring contracts and just chilled out with them.
Oh, and Crawford averaged 20 points last season on a team that won 23 games. Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall dominated the league on a Raptors team that won 33 games. Paxson’s failures aren’t with trades, it’s with his bad record of finding NBA talent in the draft that is worth a damn.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Heh yea..
first it was drafting by character, which gives you good role players. Then trying to draft by potential, which gives you tyrus thomas, then going against the grain and drafting noah, and you get noah….man rose really was the easiest pick, and i always feel stupid for being on the beasley bandwagon.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 11:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Other than passing up LMA and Roy for
TT (who still has promise), Paxson has not drafted badly if you look at who else was available in each draft. Sure there are players he missed, but then so did most of the other GM’s.
Paxson’s worst decisions were signing a declining Ben Wallace to a long and expensive contract, extending Nocioni on an overpriced contract past that continues past his prime, and not getting Ben Gordon extended. If the rumors are true, the Wallace signing may have been mandated by JR.
As for extending Deng, we should not judge that on one-third of a season, since if Deng returns to being an 18/8/5 player, the contract will be OK.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 2:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of those players
Crawford provides scoring but little else,
J. Rose and Marshall were past their prime and declining rapidly,
Curry is on the way out of the league for over-eating and not rebounding or playing defense. Antonio Davis provided a couple of solid years of interior defense and rebounding for the Bulls, and TT and Noah both still appear they will individually exceed Curry’s value – they are much better than nothing.
More value should have been had for Chandler, but remember at the time Paxson was getting heat for signing him to a too long and too expensive contract that Chandler was not living up to (deja vu with Deng).
Paxson is not perfect, but has done a much better job that the average journalist (Internet, print, radio, television) or message board posting fan would have done.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 2:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
You would’ve done worse than scrap your entire team for aging veterans and picks then draft Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Tyrus, Thabo, and Noah?
by YaoPau on Dec 24, 2008 3:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, who would you have drafted
instead ?
Here is the team Paxson inherited from Krause. Who on that team was worth keeping that Paxson got rid of?
Jamal Crawford? – Ben Gordon replaces his scoring and is a better defender despite being 3 or 4 inches shorter.
Eddy Curry? – Heart problems (literally and figuratively), doesn’t rebound or play defense, can’t get off the bench on a bad Knicks team.
Antonio Davis? – Decent player, but was near the end of his useful career (and Pax was hoping to get him back from the Knicks cutting him, but the League office squashed the idea).
Jalen Rose? – 31 years old and declining when traded.
Tyson Chandler? – Was regressing under Skiles, and needed a change in scenery. This was partially Krause’s fault, since Tyson (and Curry) should have been brought into the league as back-ups so they could learn to play, not thrown off the deep end out of high school.
No one else on that team was more than role players or spare parts.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I love is you are just pulling up those points per game
-Jalen played like 1 or 2 more years before being worthless
-Donyell has barely played the last 5 years
-Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry have played on the biggest joke of an organization. The fans hate Curry, and trading Jamal Crawford was a big part of the Knicks turnaround plan!
-Tyson has struggled this year
-JR Smith is a well known headcase
If those 6 players were on one team, they wouldn’t win 25 games
by CJ Bulls on Dec 24, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you put them on the Bulls right now,
how many more games would they be winning?
by CJ Bulls on Dec 24, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
more importantly
these guys were all on the same team together once upon a time, with the exception of smith! and how many games did they win? 30 games in the 02-03 season, which i believe most of these guys played during.
by Jaina on Dec 24, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, they won 30 games, but
Curry was 20, Chandler was 20, Crawford was 22. And they had the #7 pick in the next draft.
By doing nothing (sitting on Hinrich, Crawford, Jalen Rose, Chandler, Curry) we probably would’ve had similar results up until the Derrick Rose luck-out. I’d rather have that team over Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, PJ Brown, Ben Wallace or Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Gooden, Noah.
by YaoPau on Dec 24, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
All but JR were on a team together….our team!
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 24, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you thought the general posting here was negative now
Imagine what it would have been like without Derrick Rose on this team.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah, you know what?
if someone thinks this place is too negative, then go away. Or say something positive besides we should all be positive.
Like: “I’m positive this team is a mess”
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everytime
I think your going to run out of quips another one is posted. Brilliant!
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Dec 23, 2008 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Messed up on the reply button
shoot!!
by Bulls Mouthpiece on Dec 23, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
now we'll never know who's getting these kudos!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess Aaron Gray gets them by default then
by reprisal on Dec 23, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kudos:
the energy bar.
If only we traded for Eddy Curry, he would get the most Kudos of all.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 23, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, DistrictFan,
I get what you’re saying. And clearly, a lot of the regulars have pitched in their two cents, so here’s mine:
Blogabull is a place where Bulls fans can go to vent. Venting is less cheerleading and more asking why things can’t be done better; less “for he’s a jolly good fellow” and more “what is that guy’s F’ing problem!?” Sorry, it’s just the nature of venting.
In my opinion, Blogabull is also a support group for the largest group of educated and neurotic basketball fans in the world. We’re neurotic because we were utterly spoiled by the transcendant talent of Jordan, and the demonstration by Pippen that even a support player can develop into a transcendant and graceful star. The “supporting cast” taught us that role players who do their jobs well can make the difference between a team with potential and a team that functions sublimely, as one, maximizing the talents of each individual player. And the organization and coaching aligned behind that as well.
So witnessing basketball played at the highest level over an approximate 10-year period both educated us and spoiled us, so that we’re now neurotic. That’s why we share our worries that Pax made poor decisions, along with Krause in the post-Jordan era; that even if the decisions weren’t horrible at the time, then there’s been a failure to develop players; that coaches are poor managers and worse tacticians with impunity; that management’s indecision is a tragic comedy.
There is also analysis, which is often extremely thoughtful and well written. And when it’s not, the site readership is pretty blunt in saying so. What do you expect from a bunch of educated, opinionated but frustrated passionate Bulls fans?
Your post is a good post and brings up a valid point, that we should be more positive. But on the other hand, you really can’t overlook how passionate we are as fans, and how utterly bad to mediocre the last 10 years have been for us.
All together, now: Larry Hughes, John Paxson, Jerry Reinsdorf… they’re jolly good fellows, but what is their F’ing problem?
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Dec 24, 2008 11:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
excellent synopsis! "5 stars"
now I know better who I am …
man up!
by exult463 on Dec 24, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by 











