Don't be surprised if the Bulls make at least two deals this season. I know they've talked with perhaps a dozen teams in recent weeks, though this is hardly news since that's what general managers do all the time. I think because media members actually hear so little of what is discussed, there are few rumors out there. I've often had general managers ask me to sit on some talk because it might cost a deal, which has happened. When word leaked out of the Bulls-Sonics Kemp-Pippen deal in 1994, the Sonics backed out because of negative fan reaction on talk radio. I know of one general manager who I'm told talked with 25 teams in the last week. Will he make 25 trades? Of course not. What these guys generally do is play fantasy league with their players and hope someone is desperate. So you can be sure every player on the Bulls but Rose has been mentioned in trade talk, and every one but Jordan was mentioned in the 1990's. Gordon is probably the most difficult to trade because the Bulls need his approval and Deng because of his base year status. If I were anyone else on the team, I would be renting. My guess is two players are traded this season, though I cannot figure out yet which two. And that doesn't count Hunter and Simmons.
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/asksam_081219.html
Interesting stuff from Sam. Two deals would mean a major shake-up. I like the thought of it.
10 months ago
Illini15
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please Pax, make it so!
I’m so tired of watching this group of guys. This “system” that Vinny is running isn’t working with these players and maybe some different guys would make it more watchable.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 21, 2008 9:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Noce and Thabo are gone.
Or Noce and TT.
by PatBull on Dec 21, 2008 9:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping Kirk and Noc are gone
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 21, 2008 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed. ship their asses out!
by fundamentallysound on Dec 21, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate you
okay not really but…..yea///
:(
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 1:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is done as an important player on this team
he’s not a 2 guard and it’d be unfair to put him in that role. He’s a PG and a decent one. He makes too much money to be playing backup PG and so, he needs to go. I don’t even care if it’s strictly for a salary dump.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 1:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
Rose Gordon and Hinrich….if that was a guard rotation for the next four years would that be so bad….if the right trades were made that could be possible. Or what if gordon really isnt in the bulls plans? And Even if hinrich isnt in the bulls plans, it doesnt mean he is going to be traded tomaro, or the next week, maybe he will last out the entire season, and maybe will be traded next years deadline…
There are plenty of reasons to keep kirk, but as ive always thought about this site, its often split in hate hinrich or hate gordon….and in that light, quickly do people scream for him to begone, without ever trying to consider if gordon/rose/hinrich could co exisit.
Before i think there was a fear that hinrich remaining would cause vdn to play him alot more than rose, but i think that fear should be by now vanquished. As one of the bigger hinrich fans, i can say he doesnt hold a candle to rose. But rose could use breaks cant he, weve seen it in games when he just needs a few minutes for a breather. And gordons scoring is amazing, but what do we do when we have leads, itd be nice to put some defense in the game without sacrificing too much offense.
If noch’s contract was gone, if larry hughes was gone, and if we dont sign gooden (or sign him for cheaper) we could keep hinrich and sign gordon. We can even trade some pieces for a capable big man….but i guess no one really wants to think about that…lets just get rid of hinrich, or get rid of gordon. Im a hinrich fan, and a bulls fan…and it seems both options are lose/lose for me.. the only winning option is keeping them both….but no one else wants that it seems.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 3:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it would be bad
Rose Gordon and Hinrich….if that was a guard rotation for the next four years would that be so bad
Yes, it would be awful bad. Hinrich needs to be traded to get expiring contracts so we can pay Gordon. His contract is in the way under the new Rose Revolution. It’s not his fault. All the pieces of the puzzle just lined up this way.
Trade Hinrich to the Timberwolves for the expiring contract Jason Collins and Rashad McCants.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 22, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we stop trying to dump Hinrich?
PGs are a valuable commodity. The Warriors are rumored to give up Randolph/Wright for Raymond Felton. Let’s use our valuable players for other young players, not just salary dumps. Noc is a salary dump type player but Kirk is still valuable.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a PG who's bad is still bad
and Hinrich’s been bad for a year and a quarter. He’s paid to be a starter. I don’t think teams are that excited to get him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Veteran point guards who play defense
and contribute 15/6 are bad?
The guy had one down year and only played 6 games this year. And in that down year, the only thing lost was his shooting. All of his other numbers either improved or maintained. There are a lot of teams that could use a player like Hinrich (GS, Portland, Houston, Orlando off the top of my head).
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
his defense regressed
and it could be said that his shooting was not lost, but he re-found his usual shooting stroke. ‘06-’07 looks like the outlier.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
meant to link that
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hinriki01.html
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so,
but considering Hinrich’s shooting a career 38% 3s and 82% free throws, I would assume his low shooting percentages are an example of poor shot selection due to bad offensive teams versus bad shooter.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's also not being able to finish at the rim
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The list of pgs who can't finish at the rim in the NBA
are very long. He wouldn’t be asked to become a finisher on the teams that could use him. I’m not saying he’s an all-star, but he’s a valuable player who should be recognized, not dumped.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We can't pay $10 million
to our backup PG, in any case.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 23, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually the bulls can
you just wouldnt like the idea though…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you seriously believe
that keeping Hinrich and paying him his contract is the IDEAL use of that money and cap space for the Bulls? The way thats most likely to make us contenders?
by reprisal on Dec 23, 2008 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What!?
No thats not what i meant…i meant the bulls could…..that is all…n
Its not the ideal, but i also dont believe that trading hinrich to keep gordon is ideal either. Gordon and hinrich are both flawed players, and in many ways the exact opposites of each other. What one is good at, the other isnt. Thats why i often push keeping them both.
I think moves can be made to keep them both, and i believe that trading hinrich isnt that big of a “must do” task.
I dont think hinrich is the future of this team by any means, but i dont think him remaining is a big plague. Trading him so you can get bigger fish makes sense, trading him for expiring contracts to give gordon the contract he wants worries me.
Gordon can be a spectacular scorer, but i wonder if he would be a starter on any other team in the nba.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right..
so you want them to keep Hinrich because you see that as a smaller mistake then signing Gordon?
They dont have to be linked, just a lot of people here think thats what they should do. Sounds more like your arguing against that.
If you think Gordon’s not the right man then keeping Kirk wont ease that a whole lot. Sure there will be a few games when you can neutralize the weakness, but how many? It will just make our resources even more inefficiently allocated.
You probably have more options for trading Kirk if you can take a longer contract back(replacing Hinrich’s and not paying BG) or just other ways to use that money in the off season.
by reprisal on Dec 24, 2008 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Smaller Mistake? Sure..
Its one thats already been made, its one that wont get in the way of signing rose down the line, its one that becomes a smaller problem every year. Thats what i think of the hinrich problem.
Taking back a longer contract by trading hinrich and not signing gordon, yes im fine with that. Sgs arent as rare as a commodity as everyone would like to think they are, at least not the kind that ben gordon is. And rose is more than capable of taking over games, and he will only get better. We dont need ben gordon for 5 plus years getting paid 10 million a year. And if we can land either bosh or joe johnson in the 2010 ill be happier yet.
If hinrich is traded so we can land bosh in the off season, i would be fine with that as well, but seriously trade hinrich to make room for gordon? Then in two years we will complain about that contract?
Hinrich’s value really wont go down as much either. He is a solid pg, and starter on teams that need a pg. Couple that with a contract that gets smaller and smaller, and teams may go for it if they feel they need the help.
I just dont get the point of wanting hinrich gone, just to sign gordon for a contract thats bigger and longer (but that wont ever get in the way of signing bosh or johnson or tt/noah or rose…). Its like getting rid of one overpaid contract for another one…that makes alot of sense (wait no it doesnt).
What i am arguing is the people who want hinrich gone but are ready to exaust money on gordon. he is no savior. In the playoffs, gordon’s twenty points wont be enough to stop kobe or lebron or roy or oden…
yea, hinrich wont either, but i dont think he is the starter for this team, And if his contract really did get in the way of this team id want it gone too. Id rather have one sucky year (next year) without gordon and keeping hinrich, if it would ultimately lead to a good signing in 2010.
After 2010 kirk would only have two years left on his contract, making like 8 million. I think that 6th man money. Gordon on the other hand might be closer to 9-10 million with 4 years left on his contract(?) and making more every year (no way he gets frontloaded) yea…no one will complain about that in a few years, that contract wont hinder any development….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on this team
Gordon is a savior. Given how Rose has struggled recently, you could say Gordon’s been the best player on the team this season. It’s crazy that his performance is dismissed just because he’s not Kobe Bryant.
I’m still fairly confident that they’ll let Gordon walk and keep Hinrich as the two even though he’s nowhere near as good as Gordon. Makes me ill to think about, but some fans will be happy.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
basically
if they let Gordon walk, it makes even MORE sense to dump Hinrich for expirings, because the franchise would then clearly be shooting for being cheap 2010
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But The Mopey Iowan is
a scrappy [redacted] guy!
All Ben does is score a lot while playing decent defense.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
at least the mopey iowan
can dribble
and just cuz gordon got a few blocks this year doesnt equal decent defense, watching ray allen shoot 3s is nothing decent.
and hinrich would give rose the ball when he called for it.
and teams wouldnt be able to easily trap rose at half court if there was a guy who can handle the rock
And the mopey iowan will be making less money than bg after this year, and will expire in time to sign rose
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"and hinrich would give rose the ball when he called for it."
here we go.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the mopey iowan
will be making less money than bg after this year, because…well, he’s a lot worse than bg is at basketball.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 24, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
give it a rest
http://theSpiderWebSystem.com/ANT2501
http://apspidermarketing.ws/scoreatwill/
by NormVanBeer on Dec 24, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to jinx it huh
Also hinrich isnt a two guard and after the preseason i basically let go of any idea of hinrich playing the 2 guard at least as a starter. Also i dont have a problem with gordon, but i am fearful of the contract gordon will ask for in the offseason (he has all the leverage). the deng contract isnt exactly 2010 friendly, and i have a fear that gordons will be along the same lines. I dont hate gordon as a player, but if he is our second best player, or our future starting sgs, were gonna have problems. It wouldndt be so bad if deng was playing like his 06-7 counterpart, but because he is not…
I would rather they got rid of both hinrich and gordon cuz at least it would mean obtaining some real star power that can play alongside of rose. Im sort of tired of hoping talent develops….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely disagree
he’s absolutely a starting caliber SG, I can’t see how it’s still a question otherwise.
Whether he’s the ‘right’ starting SG is up for debate, but this team needs to get any capable starting frontcourt first, and then worry about fine-tuning Deng and Gordon.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
With the front court part
When there was the idea of trading hinrich for kaman i was agreeing with them. I think that talk stopped mainly because the question is if kaman is actually good. That kind of trade makes sense to me, trading hinrich for junk just so we can sign gordon however does not.
Also i mean gordon as a starter on this team is not good (according to my observations) gordon is like hinrich, some team that needs a sg would probably love to have him, however on most teams he would be a backup. Gordon is our second player right now, and thats a problem. I think our glaring defensive weakness in our front court sticks out alot more because of backcourt isnt that strong itself.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yikes
if Gordon being the second best player is a problem then the answer is to get better players next to him, not get rid of him so Hinrich’s your second best player.
It’s hard to get talent. Don’t let Gordon go just because you also need talent elsewhere. Then you’re trying to fill the shooter/scorer role.
And grouping Hinrich and Gordon together in the ‘not Kobe Bryant’ group masks the fact that Gordon is better.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, no 2 in the league is in the same class as
as Bryant, except Wade, and they are (or will be) max contract players. Gordon can likely be re-signed for near Deng money.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's almost like you haven't even watched the bulls play this year
do you realize how bad they would be without gordon? you really don’t think that gordon should be a starter in this league, especially after this year? are you crazy?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 24, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rose and Gordon is a championship quality back court
(once Rose matures in a year or two), if the Bulls get players at the 4 and 5 who can play defense and rebound, with one being also able to score.
by Granny Waiters on Dec 24, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if the Bulls pay the tax, sure
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should try to find it
someone here posted a graph that showed that hinrich was on par for a similar shooting percentage as 06-07 the only real difference was one month where he really was shooting horribly. If not for that month, the person concluded, hinrich would be near his shooting percentage in 06-07….i am gonna try and find it.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably looking for BR's montly splits
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/psplit.cgi?player=hinriki01&year=2008
He had an abysmal November, shooting 33% and 17% from the arc.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he had actually
been looking a little better right before he got hurt.
by Jaina on Dec 22, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but I'm not sure it was enough to sell that he was 'back'
so I’d view it as a major risk considering it’s 3+ more years on the contract.
Kings fans scoff at that contract saying they already have friggin’ Beno Udrih…that’s the sort of the attitude I’m basing this on.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well basing it on King's fans opinion
is probably your first problem. If you polled Bobcat fans abotu their thoughts of dealing Richardson for Bell and Diaw, you wouldn’t have received a warm reaction
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There could be a team with nothing at PG who'd take the chance
I just figure if they already have no PG, they’re likely not a good team…and then if they’re not good they don’t want to bother taking on a 3+ year contract on a 28 year old just to stop that bleeding.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
kings fans
well duh! they are rebuilding basically, they need or want stellar players, not real good gritty guards. And they have beno, who isnt that bad for what they are paying him anyway. Guys like orlando, cavs, heat, lakers, etc, they would love for a chance to have kirk since he would fill a major need. Kings have way too many holes, and for a guy who is getting paid 9 million, they cant waste it on him.
The bulls have three glaring needs right now. A post presence, post defense, and perimeter defense. The first two can be solved by attaining a solid center like what kaman (supposedly) is. You can say we have thabo for perimeter defense, but thats at a huge offensive risk, and that means only a break for rose (and then you have gordon playing point passing it to the other team when not dribbling off his foot), hinrich fills that perimeter defense role, without really damaging your starting backcourt, that is where hinrichs value is on this team.
Eventually rose will become a complete player, probably by the time his contract year roles around, at which point hinrichs contract expires. Until then it woudl be nice watching teams double team rose at the half court and have rose pass it to a guard who can actually bring the ball up and execute some kind of offense…im sure it would ease roses mind as well…
Its not so bad keeping hinrich, blogabull just wants it to be it seems.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando, Cleveland, LA, Miami all don't need Kirk Hinrich
Not anymore.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando, really?
He can play significant minutes for Orlando.
LA, have you checked out Farmar’s numbers lately, Fisher is also getting old.
You forgot Portland and Houston.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you checked out Jameer Nelson's numbers lately?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I said he can play significant minutes,
not necessarily supplant Nelson.
They still need more help at guard.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but who pays $9.5m for that?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A team on the verge of being very good
trying to catch Boston/Cleveland.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The bulls already have
Might as well keep it if you already have it. Like i stated you dont have to get rid of hinrich to sign ben gordon or get an upgrade at the center position. No one wants to acknowledge that though, its simply “we dont like hinrich so he must go”.
I dont want hinrich to start, but i dont like this forced notion that he must go simply because he isnt rose, and he cant shoot the ball like gordon. Its alot easier for hinrich to come off the bench and say just play defense, or just run the team. He is more than capable of performing real well when he knows he doesnt have to carry the team.
You made the point that hinrichs defense worsened. Consider this, when hinrich was at his best defensively, the team was gelling and was at its best offensively. in 05-06 hinrich’s defense was arguably at its best, with an entire team just gelling. gordon, deng, noch, curry, pargo, they were doing great jobs on offense and so hinrich could focus on defense.
The next year Deng had a breakout year, and gordon solidified a starting job and also had a spectacular year. Noch was 6th man worthy, and so hinrich again could just focus on playing defense and just hitting the shots that came to him, hence best shooting percentage and recognition of his defensive talents.
The next year, sucked. Everyone was off, and hinrich was torn between what he should be bringing to the team, playmaker, scorer, defensive player? Is it a surprise his best shooting percentage and his best offense came from the month when both gordon and deng were injured (and eventually duhon).
on a team with rose, and gordon clicking, hinrich can come off the bench knowing EXACTLY what his role is. He wont have to deal with too much, and when he starts to get fatigued or starts making mistakes, just throw back in the starter. In case of injury, you wont be so much worse off either with hinrich.
trade hinrich if it is necessary of course, but thats not up to us, thats up to management. Meaning if theres a chance to get a star player, but hinrich has to go, ship him off, but for us fans, i dont understand why we push for hinrich trades for cap room(?) oh, its so we can sign ben gordon, cuz he is our savior…..bah! (and i know there isnt a better sg available right now, but that doesnt mean gordon should be signed long term to a hefty contract either…he will not be the answer in future. He will not be the reason we win a ’ship)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*looks up*
man no one is reading that :(
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I read it
and well you know how I feel. :D
by sue369 on Dec 24, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
:)
Its been awhile since you actually joined any discussions here, ive seen a few two word comments from you here and there but thats about it…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have a lot
of interest in the team right now. I do enjoy watching TT play. Hope he keeps playing like he has the last few games.
by sue369 on Dec 24, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't mention Portland or Houston
Fisher plays defense about as well as Kirk since he can flop and get away with fouling a lot more with his championship pedigree. Farmar is more athletic, fits their up-tempo bench as well. They’re in no position to take on Hinrich’s contract right now.
Jameer Nelson is quite good, and honestly Hinrich isn’t that much better at running an offense. He’s good, at times above average, but how is that better (and worth a few more million annually) than Nelson?
Porltand is the logical situation because Roy has already established he is the PG when games are close, and Steve Blake just is so very mediocre, Kirk is an upgrade over that. Houston possibly, but who are they going to trade us? Dreaming of Luis Scola or Carl Landry?
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Landry isn't a dream
he seems very logical in a trade scenario.
As for the Lakers, Fisher is getting up there in years, and Farmar is more athletic but a worse player. There is no guarantee whatsoever he will develop They could have their pg for the last 5 years of this Kobe title run locked up in Hinrich. Lakers aren’t too worried about spending money, especially with them likely letting Odom walk this offseason and dropping his salary.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich+Gooden for Odom+Farmar?
I don’t think Kupchack thinks so little of Farmar as you do, and unless I hear verbal confirmation from Phil that they need help at their PG spot, not just a kick in the ass defensively they are set at the position.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I could see this deal making a lot of sense for both teams if LA continues to struggle.
The point is there is value in Hinrich. He shouldn’t just be dumped when the opportunity exists for teams searching for a veteran point guard.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as those teams ARE searching
If he doesn’t get traded, they weren’t looking.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is injured right now
and we’re not close to the trade deadline.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, thanks for that info.
I forgot.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would trade Hinrich in a heartbeat
But, I just don’t see that many teams (save for Portland) that would want to acquire him.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Farmar is injured.
This is the perfect time for us to dangle Hinrich in front of them.
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 23, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
[though we'll have to wait a while to do the actual trade ... yeah.]
"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com
by Prevenge on Dec 23, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ya convincing them to wait is the hard part
Farmar might 3/4 back from surgery by the time Hinrich’s ready. Gotta sell they need his D too…which near his peak form D would be huge for them.
by reprisal on Dec 23, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed;
the trouble is, when he comes back, he’s not going to be able to get the minutes to reestablish his value. Until the log-jam is cleared up, we won’t be able to get value for him…and when the log-jam’s cleared up, we’ll need him.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Dec 22, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
trade hughes now
I don’t think Pax thinks this proactively though. He probably isn’t even sold on Gordon because he wants to see how Kirk pairs with Rose for a couple months, and then make a big pro/con chart. (with ‘wants $$$’ and ‘jerry doesn’t like him’ on Gordon’s con side…)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd much rather trade
Kirk than Hughes right now, given that Hughes expires 2010. I don’t see a real need to trade him, unless he becomes a total cancer (which is entirely possible).
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I figure trade both :)
and let Kirk prove back some of his value.
I’m sure Pax is worried that he can’t deal them both because it puts Gordon in a very nice bargaining position, and this franchise likes winning negotiations more than winning games (seemingly).
And for the umpteenth time: I’m not saying you deal Hughes for post-2010 contracts!
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, yeah.
I really want that Hughes for Malik Rose/Jerome James deal to happen when Kirk comes back. It seems like it’s fairly obvious, so I’m almost surprised we haven’t heard rumors.
Thing is, I just don’t know if I trust Pax to actually dump Hughes for pre-2010 contracts. He must restore faith in this fanbase.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
you might as well buy out hughes for that deal. You realize neither of those players have played more than 5 minutes in like 10 years. Jerome James hasn’t even put on a uniform in the past year or so.
by Sambossanova on Dec 22, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The point is…to avoid Hughes becoming a team cancer. And for whatever reason, I don’t see Paxdorf actually buying out Hughes. Sad really.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they should deal Hughes Gooden and Simmons
for Marbury (buy out) and David Lee. Knicks don’t have to pay Lee, Bulls get money to pay Gordon and get rid of Hughes from the logjam. Knicks also get a capable two guard who would probably do okay with DAntoni and plays decent D (at least in the passing lanes).
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mind it
problem is Lee is a better/hybrid version of TT and Noah and would make the latter two pretty worthless.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
for the people here it would be
then we’d have to read about how TT/Noah still aren’t getting enough minutes even as Lee goes for 14/12.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gooden would be gone freeing his min
and people wouldnt have nearly the issue w/ them losing minutes to someone who could potential be part of our future…
and of course we could definitely consider dealing one of the 3 at that point
Thabo would get more PT to w/o Hughes
by reprisal on Dec 22, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, find me one person on this blog who would complain
If their starting center was averaging a 14/12 and actually capable of finishing at the rim.
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 22, 2008 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the only problem is Lee wouldn't
average those numbers if he was playing Center. But, he’s a useful player and I’d prefer having him to Gooden.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He plays center right now
Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Ozzie Montana on Dec 23, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is as much of a center as Gooden is
As in, not really.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that certainly works
(trading Hughes that is.)
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on Dec 22, 2008 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no, we can't stop trying to dump Hinrich... he's mediocre and his contract is too long.
plus, other teams know we have no use for him. So, his value is extremely low. Kirk is far less valuable than you think.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't have lowered value simply because you've fallen out of favor
the price for Kaman/Miller hasn’t dropped or else they’d already be traded. It may open discussion but it doesn’t alter values.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Darn
SKIPPY! RECD for use of a brain
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um, his value dropped because he stopped playing well
not because he fell “out of favor.” He stunk last year and he stinks this year and now he’s hurt. He’s not valuable, especially when you factor in the length of his deal.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he played 6 games
talk about small sample size….
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not that small when you consider that he was playing
at the same crappy level all of last year.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 22, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he was bad last year
and was the Starting PG for basically the whole year. He was bad!! Stopped hitting open shots, hardly drove to the hoop, and his D suffered. He basically was a completely different player from the 06 year. He got paid and became a bad Luke Ridnour. Maybe he just had a career year and maxed out, but his stock was not lowered because Rose was drafted.
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on Dec 22, 2008 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I sort of talked about this already
in this thread, but its here http://www.blogabull.com/2008/12/21/699389/don-t-be-surprised-if-the#10921410
also ben gordon also had a bad season last year (and matt will come in and say not as bad as hinrichs) as did deng. Gordon seemed like he was going to continue to bad in some of his earlier games this season, but he started playing better with rose and his numbers started going up. Many are giving luol the same benefit of the doubt. When i looked at kirks season splits, it seemed he had 2 good games, 1 meh game, and 3 bad games to begin the season with. This is also at a point when he was starting with rose and the question was still, hey how good is rose?
I want hinrich off the bench, not taking gordons spot…i think if he knows what hes going out on the court to do he can be productive. Last year, and the begining of this year were confusing especially for him. Things are clearer now. By the time hinrich comes back rose will have established wtih the team the alpha male role. Kirk would just be the first guard off the bench. Set up rose, d up the opposing guards, hit a couple of wide jumpers, give the starters a break….you guys are arguing like i want hinrich to be a starter for this team still, i dont…im asking you to understand that he can help this team….ACCEPT IT DAMIT!!!
:)
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 12:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The arguement is
that its going to be very hard to pay kirk 9 mil per to be the 7th man while staying under the cap and doing the other things were hoping this team will do a few years from now roster wise.
by reprisal on Dec 23, 2008 12:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it opens a discussion that wasn't open before...
…isn’t that already a lowering of value?
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, if anything it can increase/decrease value
It’s a matter of supply and demand.
A player might become available, then because multiple teams want him, they bid against each other and you raise the players value. If putting players on the trading block only lowered their value, no teams would do it. Yet it happens all the time.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How much to sign gordon?
If you get rid of hughes, noch, and gooden..you get about 27.9 million. Say we get Miller in a trade with like noch, thabo, and simmons…then do a seperate trade with hughes (if he keeps playing a bit like how he is now, his value will be the highest in the offseason,) we would basically have about 15 million right? Wouldnt that be enough to sign gordon. Cuz i think gordon would probably make like 9 million in his first year, (thats how much luol is making this year) so that leaves us with like 6 million, then miller expires in 2010 and we get about 19 million in cap relief…..its late so maybe some of my math is wrong…but i think this is one way to go…
paxson traded ben wallace…surely larry hughes and noch should be easier than that piece of crap!
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 3:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is a pretty good player
but he is a pretty good player who has MORE value to other teams than to the Bulls now, theres not much to debate there.
by reprisal on Dec 22, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This part is interesting
’’I’ve often had general managers ask me to sit on some talk because it might cost a deal’’
Sit on some talk? How else would ask Sam of that?Sounds so Paxson like to talk to Sam and tell him not to make deals up. Sam knows but he does work for the Bulls so maybe there you go? He was asked by Paxson to sit on talk.
Maybe I read too much into it but….
I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!
by ImmanuelKant on Dec 21, 2008 10:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
His job is the best.
Sitting in on something like that would be awesome. Wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall in Pax’s office?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 21, 2008 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he means sit on the story
as in not publish it.
by silentpete on Dec 21, 2008 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Roswell
like being the guy holding the fake weather balloon. Well maybe not that cool.
I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!
by ImmanuelKant on Dec 21, 2008 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right....thanks
thats what I was saying if you read it right.
I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!
by ImmanuelKant on Dec 21, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you tell I'm tired?
:-p
Wow.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 21, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mmmhmmm
I think I was talking to silentpete but now all I can think of is going outside with no pants on. Only -1. -40 windshield.
So I was saying Sam is keeping the hush hush on Bulls rumors for Paxson. So that Paxson doesn’t fuck up a trade and have to blame the media. haha (Kobe trade)
Sam basically said in that one sentence, he knows things but can’t talk. At least thats how I read it.
I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!
by ImmanuelKant on Dec 21, 2008 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You read it right. I read it wrong.
I need sleep.
And yeah, this weather is just absurd. I can’t even go outside without my face feeling like it’s going to freeze off.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 21, 2008 11:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're reading too much into it.
It was a generally statement, not specifically about the present.
by JeffD on Dec 22, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
opps who else
I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!
by ImmanuelKant on Dec 21, 2008 10:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thomas and Noah.
Should be Nocioni and Hinrich, though.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 8:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
We'll have to seize the Berto center
if Noah and/or Thomas are traded and Noc and Hinrich remain with the club.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Dec 22, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would be greatly disappointed (and may even suspend my "fandom")...
…but I would not be surprised at all. Seriously. That sucks that I’ve come to that resolution that it’s a real possibility.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's that high of a possibility.
I mean, it’s been said all along that Pax doesn’t want to trade Noah and now it appears Tyrus has been pulled off the block. Given that we know Kirk was almost traded already, why would you think this is such a real possibility?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Paxson will have to do something this year to keep any face.
I can’t see him going through the season making no trades. So under that assumption, what will bring back more value on the trade market? Hinrich and/or Nocioni or Thomas and/or Noah? The latter, obviously.
I really don’t see Paxson as a two-steps-back-three-steps-forward sort of guy. I don’t think he sees the real value of getting marginally worse this season just to shed long contracts. And I think they have a ridiculous soft spot that trumps business and basketball sense for Hinrich and Nocioni.
The best-case scenario I see (for me) is that Thomas and Noah come into their own and play at a too-good-to-be-traded level (instead of just good enough to raise their trade value) while Hinrich comes back earlier than expected and plays well for enough games for someone to give back a marginally-decent player with an okay contract. I don’t see Nocioni playing well enough for anyone to give back anything other than a similarly bad contract. I don’t think he’ll play well enough for anyone to even trade the worst player that expires in 2009 or 2010 that matches salaries for Nocioni. Whoever that is.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Cardinal, Mark Blount, Malik Rose, Jerome James, Shareef Abdul-Rahim???
Do any of these guys get traded straight-up for Nocioni?
Maybe if you included Thabo, you could get someone.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like you said,
doubtful…unless one of those teams really likes Thabo. I sure as hell wouldn’t be taking Noc’s never-ending contract just to get rid of one of those guys.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
Shareef retired, so his contract isn’t tradeable.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 22, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting viewpoint.
I mean, I thought I was pretty cynical of Pax’s capabilities and overall philosophy, but it appears you have me beat in that department. To me, it seems like Pax isn’t a guy who is going to throw up a white flag and admit that he failed miserably on not one, but TWO, top 10 draft picks. Both guys are still very young, and for him to give up on BOTH of them this season is basically him admitting that he’s abysmal when it comes to talent evaluation and that he has made major mistakes in trying to draft to make this team better. This would be a completely travesty, obviously.
If anything, this white flag admission is something that I think Pax would want to avoid enough that he likely won’t give up on both at this point…unless, like I said, he is getting a legitimate star back in return. This seems highly unlikely, though, unless some poor team out there becomes uber-desperate near the trade line. I could possibly see something like Deng + Tyrus + 1st round pick for “Insert all-star big here” and then including Noah in a separate deal to dump the Noc/Hinrich contracts. Really, though, neither scenario seems all that likely to me, since for one, it’s not like many “all-star bigs” become available via trade; and two, I don’t really see Pax as the type of guy who would want to give up on Noah just to dump some salary even if it helped the team in the long-run. Not to mention the fact that Hinrich and Chapu are both “hard-working, organizational (!!!)” guys. Blech.
And while I’ve thrown out these scenarios, let me say that I don’t think either of them make a ton of sense, it’s more of me just postulating. I don’t think I’d do the latter deal, even as much as I want to get rid of both Kirk and Noc. Noah needs to be kept. And I hope Tyrus is, too…unless it really makes us that much better.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
I do think Paxson feels he screwed up in those two guys. We know he considered Aldridge and I assume he considered Hawes. I feel confident in thinking he thinks those two draft picks were mistakes.
I really do think he lacks any real long-term plan. I think he might feel he’s fighting for his job (or reputation, whatever) and wants to make this team better right now. I think Thomas and Noah could bring back something that makes the team better right now, or at least in Paxson’s eyes, while I find it hard to see that Hinrich or Nocioni have that much value… considering their contracts.
I don’t consider it likely that Thomas/Noah or traded with Hinrich/Nocioni retained, just more likely than the reverse of that. That’s a key distinction.
The most-likely scenario in my eyes? Thomas+Hughes for a serviceable expiring big.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 22, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a sad day
to see Tyrus packaged with Larry Hughes of all people on his way out of Chicago. I think I would be depressed for a decent amount of time :-\
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no way Pax trades both of those guys IMO.
Unless he gets a star back. Which probably isn’t happening.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Dec 22, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it crazy that I want to keep Rose, Gordon and Thabo as our 3 guard rotation of the future...
and trade anyone (everyone?) else?
by smash! on Dec 22, 2008 6:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's what I personally would love to see.
Especially with Lindsay Hunter still in place as a 4th guard to help out if teams press Gordon/Thabo.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 22, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish to see more of thabo
He is an enigma. I cant tell what his cieling is. Sometimes he can guard kobe, sometimes he cant guard ramon sessions…his ball handling is more like dengs dribble meets gordons, and i dont know if he can knock down a jumper or not (sometimes he does, and then the next time he doesnt). I think he would be a better option than deng for guarding those athletic sfs though, and wish the bulls would use him for that.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 22, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And we'll never get to see more of him unless a few guards "ahead" of him get moved...
but I figure, he’s different enough from gordon and rose offensively and defensively to complement them very well, but has a similar enough attitude to fit in well.
And as Rose and BG become All-Star type players, Thabo wouldn’t exactly get to play starter min, but with time at the 2 and maybe the 3, he’ll def contribute in multiple areas every night.
by smash! on Dec 22, 2008 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Hinrich than Sefolosha and Sefo instead of Hughes/Nocioni.
I don’t think Sefolosha has the ball-handling to play alongside Gordon for long stretches.
That said, if it means Hinrich and Hughes were traded, I’d be all for it.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
AS CJ said, someone like Hunter could be the backup PG for the 6 min a game Rose isn't in...
But as much as I do like Hinrich (I really do), it’s either him or Gordon, not both. And Gordon has made me a believer this year so far since he and Rose complement each other so well IMO.
by smash! on Dec 23, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the team is better with Hinrich than Sefolosha/Hunter.
Or, at least the back-court.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
except it's not worth it salary-wise to keep Hinrich and Thabo makes a fifth of what Hinrich makes
and his contract is up soon. Better to dump Hinrich for nothing.
by fundamentallysound on Dec 23, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends.
If they keep the room to sign a 2010 FA, then I don’t think money matters. Besides, I want the best team possible, not the most cost-effective. If there is a true mandate, above all else-even winning, against the lux tax, then sure. Two guys on $9-$11 million deals and a rookie contract don’t seem like all that much for a starting back-court… if it were one of the better in the league.
Rose, Gordon, Hinrich = $26 million
Deng, Thomas, Noah = $18 million
Big Free Agent = $17 million
Other rotation players = $9 million.
Filler = $4 million
That’s about $74 million.
I mean, yeah, Rose, Gordon, Sefolosha, Hunter is cheaper, but Rose, Gordon, Hinrich is a lot better. I’d have no problem trading Hinrich, because it would indicate to me that they might have an actual rebuilding plan in mind.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 23, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank You
recd
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
74mm
then TT hits free agency, then Noah, then Rose in between because he’ll be locked up right away. That 74mm assumes no extensions.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
For rose
They would use the team options he has (two year team option i think) that way they keep him for a bit less, plus he gets bird years. By then kirks contract also expires. Signing rose even the way the roster is right now, i dont think is a problem.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you think they'll risk pissing him off by not max extending him right away
I think that would be very odd. Generally speaking, stars re-up right away. I can’t see the Bulls doing that. What about TT and Noah. The scary thought is what happens if TT and Noah start to reach their potential just as their contracts come up. Then suddenly you’re seriously overpaying for them.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that'd be 'paying'
not overpaying.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 23, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No it would be like an Andrew Bynum situation
where you have difficulty balancing how good the player can be with how good they are now. It’s a tough decision. The Lakers did a decent job with this, but it isn’t easy. And TT/Noah don’t have the potential that Noah does.
by CJ Bulls on Dec 23, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I cant remember this right
when hinrich got his new contract, i think it didnt begin until the next year or something….
At any rate the bulls have a two year contract with rose, and then two year team option, and then a players option…i think thats how his contract is. The bulls would obviously accept at least one of the two year options, and then just give rose his money in the second year, meaning rose would probably want his bird year anyway so he would stay three years for sure. The bulls can then give him max money, and it wouldnt clash with hinrichs contract (if he was still here) and then they could either let hinrich go or pay him role player money….TT and Noah really would be the question marks…
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 23, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
hinrich’s deal didn’t kick in till the following year because he still had a year left on his rookie contract… it was an extension. this isn’t like luol, who DIDN’T sign an extension, waited till he was a RFA and then signed a brand new contract.
by Jaina on Dec 24, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
was that an option he had left?
Meaning 06-07 was he on a team option at the time, or was his rookie contract 3 years then the options? Uh, i could probably look this stuff up myself, sorry.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on Dec 24, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you don't understand how it works.
Hinrich’s deal is three more years after this one. A 1st-round rookie MUST be paid like a rookie his first four years. You can negotiate an extension after the third year (max or otherwise), but it doesn’t kick in until the next summer. Rose would have three years after that.
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by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
correction:
a rookie contract MUST go four years, unless a team declines the 3rd (like Patrick O’Bryant) or 4th option years, which has to be done before the previous season, making the young man an UFA. I don’t know if this has ever happened with an elite-talent player.
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by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 9:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer was a 2nd round pick
but yeah, his rookie contract only lasted 2 seasons so the Cavs couldn’t use Bird Rights to sign him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 24, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it assumes the big FA replaces Thomas either at PF or Noah sliding to PF.
If he’s a SG or SF, he replaces Gordon or Deng. So, yeah, it does assume something w/ the extensions.
And Rose can’t be extended until after the 2010-2011 season (three years), and then it doesn’t kick in until the AFTER the 2011-2012 season (so, his fifth season), the 2012-2013 season, which is the year Hinrich comes off the books. Hopefully, they’ll have a third, capable guard by then. So yeah, I think I’m alright.
Any more questions?
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by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I realize I didn't explain the Thomas or Rose things fully...
…so my fault for that.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 24, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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