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Charlotte 110, Bulls 101 (OT): numbing

This game was just so...blah. I watched while the Bulls stormed out to an early lead, let Charlotte hang around, let Charlotte take the lead, let it go into OT....and the whole time I really didn't think the Bulls would lose. The Bobcats are the type of team that blows leads all the time. Because they're bad.

But Derrick Rose picked a bad time to have his first truly bad game of the season. And I'm sure Vinny will see Noc is worthless...any game now. Yup, right around the corner, I'm sure. If Deng didn't cramp up in the 4th Vinny would've kept the Noc-Gooden frontcourt out there to close it out, even though both Thomas and Noah (mostly Thomas) played well. But instead when Deng went out Tyrus got the call down the stretch.

So at least I didn't have to see another Noc-Gooden down the stretch debacle, as Vinny respected the value of defensive rebounding for once (not so much the non-value of starting two frontcourt players who can't defend the basket, but it's early...he'll get it). But regardless of such odd coaching, Rose wasn't able to close the show, and actually did worse than not closing it out, his poor decision making and defense blew the game.

Since the Bulls are bad too, this isn't that big of a shock in retrospect. But it sort of cements reasons why there was little reason to feel good in some bad wins...it meant bad losses would certainly come. But playing Tyrus and Noah more, living/dying with Rose down the stretch...big-picture that's a positive. Now just trade some of the more turd-ish in the bunch (welcome back Larry Hughes, 1-7 on  jumping-leaners!) and lets get on with the season. This team will get better as it goes along, but it doesn't mean I can't stomp my feet until it happens.

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Love it live??

"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.

by Belize on Dec 16, 2008 10:47 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe in Charlotte

plenty of seats available.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 16, 2008 10:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, Id pay

to see this

"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.

by Belize on Dec 17, 2008 7:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This game

This game shows we need to make some changes. I bet OKC has us circled in for a win after this crap.
Rose will have bad games, we had ten years of lotto picks, someone else should be able to step up by now. I am just so dumbfounded by this game. Should have won this game by 20 plus. LB out coached Vinny and their players just played better defense than us the entire game. Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes reverted back to their norms, and Noc is sucking ass right now. TT finally had a decent game, but that jumper late in the 4th was not a good shot. Those possessions are big and he is got to drive that ball in. BG and Deng need to step up and we have to get a real center sometime. Kaman and Brad Miller are available I dont understand why we havent tried for either one yet.

by NamingRightsOnSale on Dec 16, 2008 11:04 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speaking of circling wins

I made the mistake of looking at the Bulls schedule and assumed that this game would be a sure-fire win during this post-circus recuperation. Jokes on me :(

by Protocol on Dec 16, 2008 11:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

jumping leaners!

sounds like something robin would say to batman twenty years ago or so.

Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."

by BigBenign on Dec 16, 2008 11:13 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tmac

Rumor around says rockets are interested in discussing trades with tmac with any team outside their division. Any intersts?

by lcohn89 on Dec 16, 2008 11:14 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHA

I think we are gonna have to give at least Kirk and TT with one of those guys to even have a chance at him

by NamingRightsOnSale on Dec 16, 2008 11:20 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kirk and Noc

sounds about right for a guy who will miss half the season due to injury

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 17, 2008 5:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no tmac

past his prime

"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.

by Belize on Dec 17, 2008 3:08 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm glad that they lost this

I know it sounds weird, but it’s good the bulls didn’t pull this one out. Losing to Charlotte should cause all sorts of introspection. Aside from Thomas and BG, everyone had a mediocre or worse day, and Larry Hughes showed his true colors again. He can talk about improving his release all he wants, but he’s always gonna be a .400 shooter, despite hot streaks here and there. Hopefully, though, he can have enough of those streaks to be tradeable. I agree that Noc needs to be reserved for garbage time only, this is getting ridiculous. Rose’s greatest error in this game was not learning from his mistakes. He tried the same layup three times, got blocked by Okafor three times. On each play, there were options for easy points that he just didn’t see. But these things come with experience. Hopefully, this loss makes them angry and they go on a bit of a run and finally get over .500!

At least Larry Hughes isn't overrated

by Othella on Dec 16, 2008 11:23 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Hughes had a bad game

Rose had a bad game.

I wouldn’t blame Hughes entirely for his 1-7 night in 20 MPG….

Rose wasn’t running the offense well yesterday for whatever reason, so Larry defaulted into the Larry of old.

Hell Gordon played a very last year Ben Gordon game, but made some incredible shots to have a successful night.

Our offense was completely out of sorts all night after the first quarter.

Larry Brown’s a good coach for a reason though, he made the little adj necessary to stop Rose from doing his normal thing. Hopefully Derrick can figure out what went wrong in the film session….

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Man

I could go for some sweet trade rumors.

Really I think I would be happy if they end up trading Hughes, Hinrich, Gooden and Nocioni for whatever. Just live with a starting line up of Rose, Gordon, Deng, Thomas, Noah.

I think Lindsay Hunter could have helped some on those pick and rolls. Maybe not. Just when your starting to feel semi good about this team they do that.

I feel like the Bulls have been rebuilding for like 10 years......... oh wait they have!

by ImmanuelKant on Dec 16, 2008 11:35 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um... yes!!!

Should been from game one. Young players, good players, potentially great players.

IT’S CALLED REBUILDING PAXSON!!!

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Dec 17, 2008 8:09 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will live and die with this season

As long as Noah and Tyrus get their playing time

by Option27 on Dec 16, 2008 11:48 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least the worries about Rose getting enough

playing time to develop were unfounded, so there is some hope for VDN & Company.

I wish Pax would trade some combination of Hinrich, Hughes, or Nocioni, as they should not be in the long-term plans of the Bulls, so Thabo could either develop or be known as a bust.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 17, 2008 6:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

They gotta go, salary relief and freeing up playing time and removing distractions is return enough(for Hughes and Noc) anything else would be gravy.

by reprisal on Dec 17, 2008 7:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stacey King mentioned something interestin down the stretch,

something that VDN should have realized as well, I mean after all, he is the coach. Stacey suggested that Gooden stop setting picks for Derrek and let him take advantage of his blazing speed and quickness by actually giving him enough space to maneuver without a power forward draped all over him. I think if VDN had stopped going to that play the Bulls could have pulled out the victory, not that it matters all that much anyway.

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 11:52 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The other thing

is that Gooden ‘setting picks’ was actually Gooden wandering over to him, not setting a pick, and then wandering off right when Rose started his move.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Dec 17, 2008 12:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

exactly, that was pretty terrible

Some of those improvements will come from VDN hopefully getting a better feel for gameflow….hopefully.

And definitely once Derrick gets to the point where he is taking more and more control of calling the plays himself.

by reprisal on Dec 17, 2008 12:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gooden is not a very good player. I tend to get lulled into feeling otherwise when he puts up 20 and 10 from time to time, but these kind of plays show that he spaces out way more than is acceptable. Dragging his defender into Rose’s way without even trying to set a pick is a great example of that.

by Stay Chisel on Dec 17, 2008 7:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They were referring to the shot he hit against Utah

They don’t actually think he’s our go to guy at the end of games

by Option27 on Dec 17, 2008 12:37 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They do think he's a legit NBA player

So they are still idiots in that regard.

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 17, 2008 2:13 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Hughes at the MLE and content being a 6th or 7th man

would be a fine addition to many teams. At minimum salary he would be a bargain.

At $12M/year and demanding starter minutes, he sucks.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 17, 2008 6:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he hit that big 3 against the knicks too

however i consider those shots more flukes than having anything to do with actual talent

by Calogero on Dec 17, 2008 8:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He practices those leaners

[they’re his normal jumpshot]

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Dec 18, 2008 5:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I visited this thread for that exact same reason

It was one of the strangest things I have ever heard anyone say… “Big Shot Larry”…

If I had read it in print, I woulda’ assumed it was a typo, and an “I” was supposed to go where the “O” is.

Larry Hughes is Ricky Davis with less of a jumper, worse shot selection, but with one good season in his pocket to point to while Ricky has nuthin’.

Is it so much to ask that the God damn Bulls play the God damn right players? Jesus Christ Bulls, play Tyrus and Noah and never ever play Hughes or Nocioni and if Gooden is having a space cadet game SIT HIM. It’s not like his Space Cadet games really help you anyways. If he’s having his monthly 20/10 game, then fine— play him, of course. Hell, the same can go for Hughes, although those are only 3 times a season and not each month.

But why… sweet baby Jesus, why… do the right players STILL not get minutes, after two coaching changes.

If ya had a mediocre but solid big man in front of Tyrus and Noah, that’s one thing (a “Steve Blake” as a PF type, I guess)… but the last thing I would call Gooden and Nocioni are reliable.

I am not specifically a Bulls fan, though I pull for a few of the players (and high potential youth in general), and the Bulls rotation always pisses me off sumthin’ fierce. I really, really hope something just suddenly clicks and the team realizes that possibly maybe hoping to make the 8th seed and get throttled by Boston might not be as helpful in the long run as developing the lottery picks and getting another lottery pick to go alongside them.

Jesus Christ. Now I see why everyone is so pissed off here all the time.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Dec 18, 2008 2:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

WOW!

VDN gets Mortimer to rant like we do right after the Bulls blow a game.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 18, 2008 9:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After a good night of sleep...

… I though I would wake up in the mourning and realize that the last night game was just a nightmare. But no. We really lost to the worst team of the eastern conference. Rose had a bad game and seems to be without confidence, giving up the ball to early and just standing to see what happens. He doesn’t attack the rim so much as in the beginning of the season and last night we saw what, from my perspective, is his Achilles ankle: his defense. DJ Augustine outplayed him and, once more, he got caught on screens.

In the end of the day, TT was the Best bull over there. It was his second good game on a row, which means that maybe, just maybe, he understood that he has to go to the basket instead and making jumpers. Yesterday he made one or two, but he also missed one or two. So, I think VDN should talk to him and say: look, you can try one jumper for game. If you miss, you start to attack the rim. If you score, you can try another one…

As for the rest, well… Noc needs to be traded, Hughes has to stay on the bench if he’s going to play like this, and Thabo should get Noc minutes… Ah! One more thing. I don’t understand why Gray gets so much minutes on the first and third quarters. Yesterday he was passing well, but VDN never played him after the first 5 minutes of the first and third quarter. So, what’s the point of him playing anyway?

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 7:49 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

I wanted to say Achilles tendon and not Achilles ankle, of course… LOL
What was I thinking???

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 7:53 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks JeffD

That’s exactly that what I wanted to say it. It’s the problem of not knowing everything about the language…

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 9:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tyrus still needs to dive to the basket more

he’s gotten better in transition, but when setting picks he still had a few times where he’d stay out for the jumper.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 8:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Stacey King point that out on OT

When BG was double, TT got the ball and, instead of attacking the rim or passing to Gooden, he went to the jumper and missed, i think…

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 9:01 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

yep

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 9:52 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't hate him taking a jump shot

not the way stacey was cringing about it, anyways. sometimes it’s the right move, not to say it always is.

hell, gordon’s “my turn” baskets were pissing me off a lot more.

by Jaina on Dec 17, 2008 10:06 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't mind the jump shots

but in that instance there was a clear path to the basket after he set a screen.

I agree that the broadcast crew is way too up in arms about every jumper. He’s a PF, they have to be able to take that shot.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 10:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true, that one was no good

it was just annoying that they freaked out every time he shot the ball outside of the paint.

by Jaina on Dec 17, 2008 11:01 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't remember

hearing any complaints from Stacey when it was PJ Brown taking that shot…

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Dec 17, 2008 12:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't hate him either...

But on the right situations… I prefer seeing him cuting or driving to the basket…

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 11:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

again

not saying he wasn’t wrong in that instance… i just couldn’t stand the constant ragging on him by stacey. it’s worse than red loudly sighing on camera every time he takes a shot… lol.

by Jaina on Dec 17, 2008 11:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tyrus

Needs to do a lot of things more….but frankly if we continue to see that Tyrus we’ll be pretty good (when everyone else has at least a decent game).

I’d take that Tyrus game consistently even with the 2-3 bad jumpers. He hit a few bad jumpers too (they weren’t bad shots, he just makes me cringe after the early season)….

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

uggghhh

I feel like I should be more frustrated, but I just had a feeling that game was going to go south

by 815Sox on Dec 17, 2008 8:25 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, unlike the Lakers and Celtics

the Bulls still need to play well to beat crappy teams.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 17, 2008 7:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nocioni

at this point I think Del Negro is forced to give him those 20 minutes a game in hopes that he gets hot and shows a playoff team that he might be worth adding. It’s the only hope for the Bulls to get out of his contract.

by JSlakov on Dec 17, 2008 8:37 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that implies Paxson's interested enough.

he usually doesn’t seem to be.

besides…playing Nocioni at this point is just showing how far he’s fallen as a player. Best to hide him.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 8:53 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's what I was thinking

“Are they just showcasing him?” I wondered, even though that pretty much never works how you want it to. All it does is reveal that Nocioni is worthless.

He has a rep around the league as a fearless hustler who does the little things to help a team win. That isn’t true, but it’s best to hide it and pretend to be developing and hope a team thinks that is what Nocioni is.

Since his rep isn’t as bad as it is with Bulls fans and certain NBA fans in-the-know, and I even hear GMs talk nicely about Nocioni in interviews and season polls about “tough players”, I gotta think he is still tradeable. I wish the Bulls would just dump him for picks or anything they can get that isn’t detrimental to the team.

Me no understand.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Dec 18, 2008 2:47 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

the first game all season that I’ve missed…and I’m glad. I walked in the door only to catch the last 30 seconds of OT and remember thinking, “wait, CSN messed up and put the wrong score on the screen…”

I watched the post-game highlights and saw all I needed to see. Rose pretty much got his lunch ate from what I could tell. His defense has been pretty atrocious as of late. It seemed like early in the season, it wasn’t happening as much as it is now (or at least it wasn’t as noticiable). These speed, quick guards are going right past him. I’ll hate to see what happens when we play Tony Parker and Chris Paul.

More than that though, again, the defensive resistance of our bigs was pretty much non existent. As much as DJ Augustin drove past Rose, it would be nice if at least ONE of our bigs could’ve rejected a shot or two, or at least made him shoot a more difficult shot.

OT: Did anybody see the poll results from the post-game?

Which guard would you most like to see the Bulls keep to pair with Rose?
 
Ben Gordon
33%
Kirk Hinrich
22%
Larry Hughes
40%
Thabo Sefolosha
3%

Uhhh…WTF? Who’s responding to these things? Did “Know” from BAB reply a bunch of times??

by NormVanBeer on Dec 17, 2008 8:55 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wtf

Where did you see that poll?
Larry Hughes in front of Gordon. The world is crazy…

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Dec 17, 2008 9:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't know that it's crazy

but more that it doesn’t know that 43% 3p shooting larry is really a 30% career 3p shooter…

by Jaina on Dec 17, 2008 9:09 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No wonder Chicago fans wonder why their teams are so frustrating

Vinny Del Negro interviewed for the job today. I mean come on! Nobody else thinks this is nuts?
by Juiceboxjerry on Jun 6, 2008 4:21 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 17, 2008 3:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Being an old skool guy

it would be nice if one of our bigs would have made Augustine nervous about driving the lane.

it would be nice if at least ONE of our bigs could’ve rejected a shot or two, or at least made him shoot a more difficult shot.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 17, 2008 7:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the only reason to watch this team is Rose...

…and teams seemed to have figured him out. I know he will get better though, unlike many of the others.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Dec 17, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tough game to watch

Have to give the Bobcats some credit, they played tough Defense (Larry Brown teams usually do), made some timely shots ( Felton had a big shot late), and you could make a solid case that Augustine was rightly fouled on his trey (ok, fuck that, he extended his arms into Rose’ outstretched arm, then pulled a Nocioni-eque flop and fell fucking down for no reason other then to get the call. The stupid fucking ref didn’t even blow the whistle until he saw D.J. fall…)

So, to sum up, the Bulls played like shit, but still almost won. Bulls are heading into the dog days of the season, and energy will be a factor, but if you can consistent production from TT like that every night, things are looking up.

"Derrick Rose is like a $500,000 Maybach parked in the driveway of a $200,000 house in the middle of nowhere" - Bill Simmons

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 17, 2008 9:22 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know I've heard that Rose

is already putting in a lot of time critiquing video of his play… I hope he recognizes that he had a bunch of opportunities to dish off to an open man at the hoop on those drives that Okafor blocked. You know that more and more teams are going to collapse on him when he gets to the hoop like that – he’s got to be more adept at recognizing and dishing. It would be a perfect time to put TT on that weak side and just throw lobs to him when his defender helps.

by kig on Dec 17, 2008 9:23 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Noc

Wasn’t god awful yesterday, his defense was pretty solid….he missed some open 3’s, but so did the team.

The thing that was frustrating for me was first that we lost (we should have demolished them especially early) but mostly that big Aaron started the second half and played it seemed a good deal of the 3rd……I mean Noah and especially Tyrus were keeping us in the game.

Everyone else played poorly. Rose had a really really bad game, too much one on one, little D, his passes weren’t as crisp as normal, and while he took some nice shots that just rimmed out, he just wasn’t the usual Derrick Rose.

Gordon scored ok, but was just iffy on an average night for him. I’m shocked to see he scored 13 pt sin the 4th as I didn’t really remember him taking over….but he played ok, just not very good of late…..not a bad game

Hughes missed some open jumpers had a nice D stop or two, but took 2-3 bad out of the offense shots (though Rose wasn’t playing int he offense yesterday either, so be it).

Deng looked ok, but got hurt and we lost.

Noah was very active and played from my eyes pretty well, but got a strange 15 minutes of play…..his +/- was poor (as was Tyrus’s) but I think that’s because the rest of the team wasn’t so hot when they were out there, these two played quite well…..it was the circumstances.

I’m not one to critize VDN too much yet (give him the year at least as I think he’s doing a nice job building a comraderie from a team that was a joke (not a team but a collection of players) last year….but he should have just kept Tyrus out as much as possible and played a bit more Joakim…

Had Rose just had an average game (or had the phantom 3 pt foul call not been called) we would have won easy….it’s a shame, a game we should have won.

I think this team’s allergic to the .500 stigma.

Noah was active and was the 2nd best player

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 10:29 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

his defense sucked

Matt Carroll was able to blow by him in the 4th and it caused all sorts of bad things.

I have no doubt Vinny was going to bench Noah and Tyrus in the 4th completely if not for Deng’s injury.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 10:42 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Matt Carrol

Didn’t blow by him, Noc was grabbed on a screen by Okafor.

He’s played like shit this year, but yesterday at least his D was solid.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I go into every game expecting him to be shit

and I can say that he did not do anything that led me to think otherwise. Could be irredeemable bias, but I did not see him do anything on that end, except bilk one offensive foul.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 11:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He stuck to his man ok

And really was aggressive, but as I say he’s still a ways away from being the Noc of old….especially after missing the open shots…..but the D wasn’t awful yesterday, it was pretty good (doesn’t mean that’s been the case much this year) Noc was one of our better defenders last night, which doesn’t say much for the team either, but his D was pretty good.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 11:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Haha

that one made me laugh out loud. Too bad Adam Morrison was out – him vs. Noce would have been a battle for the ages.

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Dec 17, 2008 12:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The court could not contain

the awesomeness of a combined Morrison ‘stache and Noc goatee.
Larry Brown’s head would explode…

--Torch

by torch on Dec 17, 2008 12:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I got it

But Matt Carrol can or could shoot and anybody can hit a shot now and then. Noc was grabbed while Carrol was running around the court. He was only open for a tenth of a second and hit a shot he hasn’t been hitting.

It’s not like he went 15-19, he was 3-5 and on that particular play that Stacey missed, it really wasn’t Noc’s fault.

I’ll admit Noc has played like crap this year, and he had a bad game as his offense was off again, but he did have a nice D game overall. Rewatch it closer….

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 1:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

matt carrol beat Noc off the dribble twice

that is probably more times than he has beat any player off the dribble in the last 5-6 games. If he can’t guard a spot shooter off the dribble, he is useless on D.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 1:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again rewatch

Matt Carroll beat noc without the ball when Noc was held.

I know it looked bad, but again Noc was not 100% at fault. Okafor made some veteran plays (and not in the cheap nature like Noc tends to do).

His D wasn’t bad……yesterday (it’s been overall bad this season).

But I’m done arguing because there’s no point. I rewatched those two plays because I was pissed at Noc on the DVR, and saw both times—moving screen and a hold that it wasn’t all on Noc.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 2:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you think I'm watching that shit again?

I had to spray lysol on my DVR for 15 minutes afterwards.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 3:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know

Good point LOL.

I wasn’t quite as pissed for whatever reason last night as I was against Portland (Definitely against Portland) and I was also more pissed for whatever reason when we lost to the Grizzlies (even though both of those teams are or should be better than the Bobcats)….

You could just tell by the 5 minute mark of the 2nd quarter and the fact that the Bobcats were like 5 pts down despite playing one of the worst opening 17 minutes of basketball by any team this season, that we were going to lose…..

I kept watching, but I knew what was happening.

ESPN now has Rose ranked #2 in the rookie rankings…..god that sucks. I know he’ll bounce back fine and that Mayo’s been really good, but god that pisses me off. I wanted a landslide all year there….. Rose has to adj on D a bit….he can, but if he doesn’t teams will continue to expose him there. Stupid D’Antoni pointing that out to the world…..

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 4:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There has only been one rookie (and player) in Chicago history

who did not really have down games, and he had the advantage of 3 years under one of the best NCAA teaching coaches plus a Summer Olympics under Bobby Knight (Knight is a horrible human being, but a good basketball teacher when he controls his emotions).

Holding Rose to that standard would be unfair.

by Granny Waiters on Dec 17, 2008 7:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good to know we only need one stat to determine usefulness on D.

Can he guard a spot shooter off the dribble? No? Useless on D!

Pretty myopic but I’m sure you don’t care.

by PatBull on Dec 18, 2008 10:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The idea being

that you can extrapolate this to safely say that he pretty much can’t guard anyone in regards to them being able to take him easily off the dribble.

"You remember the first time you picked up a basketball video game and you had no idea how to run plays, so you just gave the ball to your shooter and you ran around the court aimlessly until a defender was far enough away and then you jacked up a shot? THAT IS LARRY HUGHES!"
-Anonymous fan letter, heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com

by Prevenge on Dec 19, 2008 11:47 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm sorry, but that is nonsense

Noc’s d was terrible last night and he was guarding only players who were completely one dimensional. Diaw was licking his lips when he saw Noc on him. Matt Carrol blew by him like he was some guy off the street. I don’t know what game you saw Noc playing. Maybe a replay from 2 years ago.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 1:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Diaw's

One dimension has always been offense….

Matt Carrol did not blow by him, rewatch. Larry B had them cutting accross court and moving and they did a nice job of it, getting guys stuck for a second in the lane…

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 2:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And neither of them

Were particularly great yesterday….and didn’t do especially well against Noc. The 2 plays you are speaking of weren’t Noc’s fault….they resulted in a nice drafted play by Brown.

I’ve been on Noc of late, and would rather see him not play when T2 has the game he had yesterday, but I’m not going to criticize his D when that wasn’t the problem (The missing of open 3’s sucks, but so be it)…..he had a decent D game….not all league or great, but better than avg…..of course the players he played against weren’t exactly the Lebron’s either.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 3:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They weren't great

because they aren’t the focus of Charlotte’s team. They want to score, especially last night, out of the backcourt. That still doesn’t absolve Noc from playing half way decent D.

I’m sure other defenders have been grabbed in the past. If Noc gets caught on screens that is part of the game. You are suppose to fight through screens, they aren’t going to let you pass by. I guess we should absolve all defensive mistakes. Larry Brown was on the opposite sideline. I mean its not like they had lost 7 straight games or anything.

I’m not saying Noc was the reason we lost. But your claims of him playing solid D last night aren’t… meshing with my observations and the observations of most fans.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 3:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He got there in 1 split second

Carrol hit a shot, it happens, he didn’t go 15-19, he went 3-5, any player in the league not named Ben Wallace can do that….and even gulp Ben Wallace has had a few 3-5 games….it happens.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 3:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe you should watch the game again without your

“Noce is bad regardless of how he actually plays” glasses.

by PatBull on Dec 18, 2008 10:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Derrick

His D is subpar. He has the strength and speed to play above average D. I don’t think if he burns all his energy on the offensive side but his D has been weak pretty much every game.

I still can’t believe that we lost to a Bobcats team that gave serious minutes to the likes of Matt Carroll and Ryan Hollins and Juwan Howard and they didn’t even have Gerald Wallace.

We needed this game and pretty much I gotta say Derrick was the goat. He needs to stop trying to be a facilitator and look to drive to the basket first and then worry about dishing it off. Right now he is best served as a scoring PG and stop settling for so many jumpers.

Good to see production from Ty and Jo for the second straight game.

by C Smoove on Dec 17, 2008 12:55 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stop facilitating and drive more?

Did you not see the Okafor blocks?

--Torch

by torch on Dec 17, 2008 12:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that might be the weakest part of Rose's game.

He has no idea how to take a foul. He should have watched Devin Harris from the Nets game. Rose drives the lane and looks for the best way to get his shot off. Given he’s 6’3 and most bigs are 6-10-7’ he has to make a fantastic play to get his shot off. Most NBA guards, especially the great ones, drive the lane and jump into the defender forcing them to foul. Eventually the defenders back off creating easier future layup opportunities. The faster he learns this skill, the more his scoring and TS% will go up. This should be the top priority for Rose’s development, more than his defense or jump shooting.

by CJ Bulls on Dec 17, 2008 1:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a rookie

That’s VERY common. Rose is used to having the speed and athleticism to do what he wants whenever he wants. He’ll adjust fine….he’s been GREAT all year except maybe for 2-3 games (yesterday, Portland game, and 1 other one I can’t recall)….not a bad tally especially for a rook.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 1:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No one said he can't adjust

but someone needs to show him this sooner rather than later. Gordon seems to do a decent job of this. Maybe some teaching could go on.

by CJ Bulls on Dec 17, 2008 3:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly. Just expanding the point that's all

I don’t think anyone’s dumb enough to say Rose won’t get better….

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 3:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He wasn't

being a facilitator at all yesterday and that’s why we lost, not vice versa…..

Rose was the main culprit of the 1 on 1 game and him being off brought the whole offense completely out of sync.

He should play more in the offense and do a better job picking his spots for the scoring at the basket…..

He’s done it all year though, and had a bad game, it happens.

His D is his biggest weakness that keeps him from superstar status as a rookie. I think that will improve as the season goes and next year goes….even stars have bad games.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 1:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm disagreeing with you all over the board

i thought Rose was looking to pass on those plays, but kept making the rookie mistake of either leaving his feet with no one to pass to, or going soft when he couldn’t find anyone. He probably should have passed the ball a couple more times in the 4th. It was like he was running into a brick wall, over and over.

The offense should be Rose though. He should initiate 80% of things. Before we make him into Billups, we should first give him a chance to be a CP3 or B. Davis type player.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 1:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are contradicting yourself then

Saying he should shoot more, but then recanting it and saying he probably should have passed a few times in the 4th….

I agree that normally ROse should have control to do what he wants with the ball, but when what he wants to do that has been working wasn’t working at all….he should have tried more to run the offense.

But no bother, 1 bad game from Rose, maybe his 3rd bad game of the year (13) I can handle that, especially when he’s been great in over 60 of them, and just good in the rest.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 3:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i never said he should shoot more

i was responding to your contention that he should just “run the offense.” He should be the creator, the ball should be in his hands. If running the offense means passing the ball to Gooden in the post or Deng on the wing, than he shouldn’t run the offense, he should try to create plays for his teammates. He shot when he had no place to go. I was suggesting instead of forcing shots, he should have been looking for a cutting Gooden or Tyrus. The offense would still be going through him, but he wouldn’t be taking all the shots.

I didn’t say what I meant very well before.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 3:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He wasn't

being a creator yesterday, he was playing one on one. At times that works, but the Bobcats were prepped for his game and he thus should have scaled back by the 2nd quarter and tried to run more plays and then picked times to be the creator. His creations were off.

I don’t think that’s the majority of days, but after 1.5 qtrs of the Bobcats stopping the typical Rose assalt, the coaching staff should have said, look Derrick be the facilitator for a bit, get them off of you and focused on GOrdon and Deng a bit more, then take advantage….

He played too much one on one. 1 bad game…..but he didn’t adj at all.

Oh well, that’s why he’s a rookie.

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 4:37 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aaron Gray

 Vinny’s performance as a coach last night really pissed me off. He has been so stubborn w/ his substitution pattern of Aaron Gray. It was commented on recently but I thought Vinny made a big mistake in the Charlotte game not giving Gray more PT, especially against Okafor. We looked like a far superior team at the beginning of both halves. In the first half I remember thinking,“Wow! Aaron Gray is shutting down Okafor and he even looks like the better player! Cool.” Then Vinny went to Tyrus and Noah really quickly, which I liked, but why not go back to Gray after he gets a breather? Instead more Drew Gooden.
  Blog-a Buller talked about Vinny and the matchups he likes and how that dictates the playing time; did he not notice that Okafor was struggling on offense against a taller player?
  2 things: 1. If I was Okafor, I would be thanking Vinny for saving him the embarassment of getting outplayed by Aaron Gray and instead helping him to an easy double-double against the undersized Drew Gooden. In that 2nd half it was Okafor’s work on the offensive glass that really helped them.
     2. If I’m Aaron Gray I’m asking Vinny for one of his now famous heart to heart communications to understand just what’s going on. “You think I’m good enough to start but not good enough to see any more minutes after that? Am I being used as a pawn to motivate Joakim and Tyrus to work harder so they can start? Aren’t I a young & promising big man too? What about my minutes?”
Hopefully Aaron handles it like that; Me? I wouldn’t be as polite after watching my team lose to an awful team like the Bobcats (esp. w/o gerald wallace & their best defender raja bell). I’m trying to make the playoffs, maybe even have home court advantage. Instead we lose to the Grizzlies and Bobcats in less than a week. WEAK!

p.s. DJ Augustin & Raymond Felton clearly outplayed our backcourt tonight, shame on us!

by JGoldbe23 on Dec 17, 2008 1:35 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Vinny doesn't notice in-game matchups.

Just pre-game “size” ones. It has little to do with abilities or actual performance. This should be known by now.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Dec 17, 2008 1:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"aren't I a young & promising big man too?"

“Maybe in Turkey, Aaron”

I cannot fault for sitting Gray as much as possible. A bigger gripe is that when he’s in they don’t go to him, which is the only reason to have him out there (since he can’t defend without fouling).

There was a play to open the second half where Gray brought the ball down, it got stripped, and he slowly eased to the floor (like an old man into a bathtub) trying to get it. It’s moments like that that make me ashamed to be a fan of this team: this is our starting center.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 1:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Well

That’s the real problem, Gray shouldn’t be our starting C.

He did make a nice pass or two, but that play was rough. Stacey called that right when he was like “see Tyrus can just take that straight up, Aaron tries to take it down first to prep for his jump and he gets it taken away because he’s too slow”….

That’s when I was like grr where’s Tyrus (aka the guy that was keeping us in the lead in the first half single handilly).

TOnight, I don’t care, we should start Tyrus at the 5 and make other teams adj….

Rose-Gordon-Deng (IF he’s not hurt)-Gooden-Tyrus. Tyrus’s speed and hops will help a bit with the lack of size for the C’s….and if he plays again like he did yesterday (where he almost looked like a guard for a while) he will beat his man….

I hope we continue to see that Tyrus…..

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 1:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if the plan is to start a guy for 5 minutes each half and bench him

might as well make it Noah then.

Start Noah/Gooden, have Tyrus the first big man sub, he can play with either guy. Gray still can play, but behind those 3, not ahead of them.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 2:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

EXACTLY

Though, we seem to cater often to other teams and play too much small ball. Why not really play small ball and try Tyrus at the 5 for a spell to start the game? Tyrus’s speed and myriad of raw talents might come in handy if he’s having a Tyrus-on game….

He can leap to adj shots and really yesterday’s game I saw he looks pretty big these days (not the thin dude of the past)….I know that isn’t just the past week that he’s gotten stronger, but I just for whatever reason noticed it yesterday. Let’s give it a shot…

Can’t be worse than Gray being too slow down there, or Gooden being outmatched at the C right?

And the worst that comes of it is we play our best players/best upside more minutes….

by majoyenrac on Dec 17, 2008 3:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

like an old man into a bathtub

that made me laugh out loud. Bravo, Matt.

by kig on Dec 17, 2008 1:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can't take full credit:

thanks to George Costanza

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 2:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought it was

“like an old man trying to return soup in a deli”? Either way – still funny!

"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."

by Ugh It Live! on Dec 17, 2008 3:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmmmm, that is a similar quote. Maybe I'm mixed up.

I did take this quote from somewhere though.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 3:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

aha

no they’re both Costanza. I was referring to one where he’s talking about a ship sinking or something.

The “angry like returning a soup at a deli” was referring to the ocean when he saved that whale.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 17, 2008 3:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what a horrifying play

i would have pulled him too. It was like he was moving in slow motion yesterday (for the 1000th consecutive day of his NBA life). He has some nice skills if the other team just stands there and refused to move.

by Basketball Smurf on Dec 17, 2008 2:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How did Rose do against Orlando?

It seems like this game and the game against Portland were probably Rose’s only two bad games, out of a lotta great ones. As I watched the game, it appeared to me that Rose didn’t seem to know how to adjust for a shot blocking big man.

And it seemed the same when he played Portland, who had a pair of shotblocking big men (3, including LMA).

It might have just been a coincidence, but it was odd how he was throwing up softballs for Okafor to spike into the 5th row and didn’t seem to make any adjustment to compensate for it. He just didn’t seem aware of that type of thing happening.

How has Rose done against Orlando and Dwight Howard, or any other good weakside shot blocking big man? It’s only been 25 games or so, it isn’t crazy to think he just hasn’t experienced a good assortment of shotblockers yet.

It is a totally fixable problem, and it also may be totally coincidental and not because he isn’t used to shotblockers. Bad games happen to everyone, even future legends.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Dec 18, 2008 2:55 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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