Chandler, Duhon and the bad coaching saga

by JustAnotherFan on Dec 10, 2008 7:18 AM CST Comment 26 comments

I am sure letting Duhon go was the right thing. I was against the Chandler trade but didn't think it was the end of world either. But we have to wonder, don't we? Why guys like Chandler and Duhon got to play so well the second the stepped out the Bulls roster? I am sure both Hinrich and Rose are lightyears ahead of Duhon. I am sure that TT can but much better numbers than he does and be at least as valuable as Chandler. So why it doesn't happen?

To me it is about bad coaching. Guys who can't motivate, who doesn't have a solid system, who can doesn't have consistency on their calls.... I do believe Del Negro have potential but right now I do think the Bulls would be an much better team if they had a much better coach.

What do you think?

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Small sample size

Yes! Chandler turned out to be a good player. Stuff like that happens, players blossom with sometime when they switch teams. But Duhon, I mean seriously. You’re the victim of small sample size.
The coaches always played Duhon because he isn’t a terrible player, but he’s not exactly a new player thriving in D’Antoni’s system. He’s played well, but not that much better than he was on the Bulls. He’s averaging many more assists, but that’s just because the Bulls have always been a bad offensive team and so any player we trade, I would expect more assists out of them. But if you look at how he’s played over the last 20 games and consider the amount of minutes, and pace, he’s played, you’d see he’s the same mediocre player he always was.

Duhon per 40 minutes pace adjusted
Bulls
2007-08=10.1 points, 38.7% fg, 34.8% 3p, 6.9 assists, and 1.9 turnovers
Knicks
2008-09=11.2 points, 41.7% fg, 39.2% 3p, 7.6 assists, and 2.5 turnovers

The difference is negligible. He’s played better with the Knicks, but not that great overall. He’s about as good as Beno Udrih (Udrih’s a better scorer, Duhon less turn over prone). I don’t really want either on my team.

Finally, Chandler wasn’t the missing piece on this team, he’s a good player, but not great. He was moved and I am not sad about it at all. It would have been nice to get something more for him, but it’s done and I am not that sad.

by Jamaicanpi on Dec 10, 2008 7:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tyson

you could see would be more than effective….he was playing well for Skiles there for a time and then seemed to lose all confidence after he got the big paycheck. I was expecting him to break out after he was traded, but he really was an asset that needed to be traded because a the time Scott turned this club around and folks thought Skiles over Chandler—and I agreed with that.

Chandler lost the coach, and that’s why he needed a new spot and he turned out well.

Had the rest of the team not lost the coach a year + later, we would have been happy even if Tyson performed as he has since leaving the team.

I do think this team would be very good right now with Tyson manning the post…..much as I hate our big man offense at times, it’s our post defense that really makes us average to awful at times.

by majoyenrac on Dec 10, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Duhon's been getting like 5 TOS a game

by Nextgen on Dec 10, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Duhon is just playing more minutes,

and at a faster pace then before. His PER is only slightly better then his best year here. Chandler never played bad here, but again its minutes. He started from day one in NO, plus there is the minor addition a some guy named Chris Paul.

"Rest satisified with doing well and leave others to talk of you as they please"

by Bigred15 on Dec 10, 2008 8:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Meh on Duhon

I’m in the minority here who’s pretty much always liked him, but that’s like within context. I didn’t mind him at all as a backup PG. As a starter he’s generally pretty marginal. The way he was used here (too much) did more to sour opinion on him than anything else. Anyway, I’m happy to see him playing well in New York, and I think that’s a better place for everyone involved.

Chandler… I’m happy to see him playing well in New York, and I wanted to hang on to him (at least compared to what we actually did… I would have been willing to trade him for something useful).

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

And look

Ben Gordon’s playing light year’s better this year than he did last season wtih a new coach. He’s playing defense, and everything else that he couldn’t do with Skiles.

I think Skiles’s offense was so rigid that a lot of guys couldn’t show their full talents (I mean Skiles only really utlized the drive and kick and just changed the drivers (Hinrich, Gordon or Duhon) with the kickers (Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon, Deng)…..any other points were incidental coming from broken plays or rebounds. That was his entire offense, and it was so stale there by the end. Boylan came in and new nothing other than to coach like Skiles but “make it faster”, which I don’t think it was faster….

Del Negro’s getting the guys to move without the ball, pass around the perimeter and find more open opportunities and passing lanes. Look at Gordon’s passing this year and even gulp Larry Hughes’s passing….they’ve improved. I know the guard talent’s better because of Derrick, but the other guys are starting to do things.

VDN has a ways to go to get to the D’Antoni mastermind offense system, nobody else in the league is as effective an offensive coach as Mike D, and yesterday’s game proved it. Sure they can’t defend, but if they had a solid, consistent 3 pt threat in place of Wilson Chandler, they’d win a lot of games….say adding Gordon to that mix…

by majoyenrac on Dec 10, 2008 10:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

regardless of stats

Duhon was doing stuff yesterday that you enver saw him do like penetrate and get to t he hoop and even finish with pretty goo consistency. I dont care about the numbers, he looks much much better in a kincicks uniform than he ever did on the bulls where all he did was bring the ball up and pas on the offense and take open threes (and miss them for the most part).

by Sambossanova on Dec 10, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I believe this is because

on the Bulls, he knew that Skiles had a quick trigger finger to yank you after one mistake. This made him play a little tight, a little conservative.

I haven’t really scrutinized efficiency / PER, but for what they’re worth, his assist numbers do look great, though. Why haven’t the Bulls point guards ever even approached double digit assist averages?

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Dec 12, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Small Sample size....for your comment

I don’t hear the cries about Eddy Curry and Eddie Basden. Not everyone leaves and does well. You’re just picking two players who have done well since leaving the Bulls. And relatively speaking, they really aren’t. Not in the sense they aren’t good, but for the money they are making, they are performing at that level. They aren’t stunning the world ala Boris Diaw as some sort of revelation.

On another note, I really enjoyed watching Duhon yesterday. He looks to be a great fit in their system. It doesn’t change the fact if he was here right now, he still wouldn’t be playing more than 15 minutes per game.

by CJ Bulls on Dec 10, 2008 12:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Chandler earned

his money big time the last 2 years….he’s started off a bit slow this year (advanced expectations maybe getting to his fragile ego???)…but he’s earned his money so far.

Duhon….who knows he might earn his money as a middle of the pack PG. Of course Duh would always have nice stretches….I’m just waiting for the late Dec-Feb shooting slump.

Duhon again started jacking up shots instead of driving late in yesterday’s game, which was funny because he was very successful driving all game….

by majoyenrac on Dec 10, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Technically Curry had a career year after leaving the Bulls

But his lack of rebounding and defense were the exact reasons why the team couldn’t rely on him, so no one gave a shit.

I’ll give Du credit for winning the coaching lottery and making the most out of it.

What do you see in a 14 ppg with no jumper that makes one think he will be better than a 26ppg\ 12rpg guy? Is there some kind of magic formula that tells you 14 > 26??
by Dabullsfan on Jul 1, 2008 10:19 AM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 10, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And that year

being his career year is the reason he’s glued to the bench right now. Curry scored more, but per minute was about the same with the same TO ratios and same horrible rebounding rates and lack of defense….

Eddy Curry = waste of talent

by majoyenrac on Dec 11, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bad coaching

Bad Management and esp. bad scouts…..whatever, we got Rose

This post is depressing…no offense, but Im bout to go look at my old chander jersey and weep

"If there’s any haters in here right now that don’t have nobody to hate on, feel free to hate on me." - A.P.N.S.

by Belize on Dec 10, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Granted it's early in the season still

but everyone has seen Tyson’s numbers right? He’s only averaging 8 and 8 with 1.4 blocks. Posting a PER of 12.74

by CJ Bulls on Dec 10, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

a lot of scouts would have gone crazy for Tyrus….Tyrus would be in his 4th collegiate year this year and the little things he can do likely would still make him a top 5 pick. He’s not worth a top 5 pick right now because folks in the NBA level have seen what he can do, but if he was in college, he’d destroy much of the competition and can be so exciting to watch on those good games, he’d surely be right up there on draft night.

by majoyenrac on Dec 11, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He was red shirted as a freshman I believe....

by majoyenrac on Dec 11, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson is the problem

Could you imagine having chandler with Rose! It’s also appraent now that Duhon is better then Hinrich. Acquiring Hughes and Gooden just takes minutes away from the younger guys. The team hasn’t developed Deng like we all thought they would. It’s horrible to watch, thats why I shifted towards college hoops

by where2hoop.com on Dec 10, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"It's also appraent [sic] now that Duhon is better then [sic] Hinrich"

That’s where I stopped reading.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?

--Torch

by torch on Dec 10, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Same.

That’s just absurd. I could put up solid numbers playing 40+ minutes a night for D’Antoni.

by dakoose on Dec 10, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

does this mean 2-time MVP "Nash" was overrated?

man up!

by exult463 on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you can answer that yourself

how is he playing this year?

by NormVanBeer on Dec 10, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

by KT on Dec 10, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No.

Nash is playing in a slower system. He was a great PG for Nellie too, underrated but great. He can shoot anywhere on the court and is still the best pure passer in the league (Paul gets more assists, but Nash’s ability to find guys is spell binding).

True D’Antoni’s system helped bring out Nash’s effectiveness, but Nash is always a transition game PG, who excels in running the court.

He’s also what 34-35? Age is creeping in a bit.

Duhon’s nowhere near what Nash is today or was yesterday. His stats are virtually the same as when he was a Bull, he’s just doing that over more minutes.

by majoyenrac on Dec 11, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you even watch Nash play?

The guy is like 35 years old, but I guess that’s got nothing to do with his declining play does it?

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd so much rather have

Hughes and Gooden on our team than Ben Wallace….

Both are infinitely more tradable and much better players than he too who also should not be named anymore even if once upon a time he was damn good, he killed our team more so than anyone else.

by majoyenrac on Dec 11, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs