VDN: Give Rose the damn ball!
[From the FanShots -ed.]
That's why it was so puzzling -- and borderline troubling -- that the ball was out of Rose's hands so much when the Bulls featured a three-guard lineup of him, Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich during their 96-93 loss Monday to the Orlando Magic. Coach Vinny Del Negro made it clear after practice Tuesday that wasn't by design.
''We want him with the ball more,'' he said. ''We need to work on that a little bit, but we didn't have a preseason with Ben in the lineup and haven't had to really go to the small lineup in the first few games. That was the first time we went to that, and you have to find a way to work the kinks out.
''Obviously, we'd rather have Derrick with the basketball with [Gordon and Hinrich] spaced.''
2 months ago
NormVanBeer
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Thank god.
I was really worried. seriously.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Nov 5, 2008 11:35 AM CST 0 recs
Why couldn't he have called a timeout
and, you know, made an adjustment.
Why couldn’t he have just told Kirk and BG to get the fuck out of Derrick’s way and try to get open for a three?
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 5, 2008 11:40 AM CST 0 recs
I was wondering why a timeout wasn't called that possession
before Ben lost his mind and decided to drive right into D. Howard AND the other 6’11" guys crowding the lane. We had almost a full shot clock; you’d think regrouping would have been in order.
by arjoseph on
Nov 5, 2008 1:22 PM CST
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Because Gordon went ahead and took that bad shot
He acknowledged after the game Vinny wanted a TO, but BG went crazy (shooting for his contract because he’s selfish!!!!) and we know how the game ended.
I hate to admit it, but it does seem like the other players on the team realize that they’re being usurped as the more important parts of the team, and they aren’t meshing with Rose as well as we thought they would be.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on
Nov 5, 2008 1:23 PM CST
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I'm especially surprised by Kirk.
He was a coach’s son for chrissakes. You’d think he’d be as much a team player as anyone. I like how he lacked all aggression last year, but now wants the ball in his hands.
I think part of all this is that basketball is largely an instinctual game; you don’t have time to think about your next move. You rely on your training and your ability. Guys are having to retrain their NBA instincts. As Sports2 says below, this is definitely a “test” for VDN, who has to be the prime faciliator of this change. He has to be willing to get mad and to be a leader (ala D’Antoni in NYC; if only that had turned out differently . . .). I think we do have character guys (to respond to Ozzie’s point below), but they need some leadership and some direction, and a rookie PG isn’t going to be able to provide all of it.
by arjoseph on
Nov 5, 2008 1:28 PM CST
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Kirk
Doesn’t know his role. He has the mentality of a PG but is asked to play SG and what he invisions as a shooting guard is not how a SG should play plus the way he’s built is not help either.
by J Theory on
Nov 5, 2008 2:40 PM CST
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Exactly.
If they aren’t meshing well with Rose, look to move them.
by messwiththebull on
Nov 5, 2008 1:38 PM CST
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It's true...
For the first time (in a long time) I think we can all agree that ANYONE that can’t play with Rose needs to figure some things out quickly.
We have lacked a potential superstar for so long (since Jordan really, although Brand was pretty solid too). Any plan moving forward should be with Rose as the focal point of our team.
In a somewhat related note (although probably for another thread altogether), does anyone else feel left out of the “2010 Lebron sweepstakes” conversation? I ask mostly because of the recent trade of AI. I mean come on, Detroit is gong to be a joke in five years, Chicago has potentially the best future PG in the East. Maybe NYC or NJ is a forgone conclusion, but LBJ does wear 23 and idolized MJ right? It seems a perfect fit to me.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Nov 5, 2008 2:40 PM CST
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LJ , Wade, Bosh
One of those guys is gonna want to play with Rose you would think! Although rumor has it Nike has a deal with Lebron where if he signs in New York or LA, he gets an extra 50 million in endorsement deals.
by RogersPark Kris on
Nov 5, 2008 2:45 PM CST
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i thought
chicago may have been included in the nike bonus. it’s also a huge market.
by Jaina on
Nov 5, 2008 2:46 PM CST
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I've heard this rumor also
It is in most big name players contracts. It includes all the major markets including Chicago.
by J Theory on
Nov 5, 2008 2:49 PM CST
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Is that maybe why Mayo didn't want to play in Memphis?
And Kobe refused to play for Charlotte (which drafted him)?
Just curious.
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Nov 5, 2008 2:57 PM CST
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* Or rather why Mayo didn't want to play in MN.
(who drafted him)
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Nov 5, 2008 2:57 PM CST
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I'd take LJ or Bosh in a second...
But would be scared to death of giving max money to Wade (not that I don’t him when he is healthy).
I have heard of the 50 million bonus, completely forgot about it, but I do think Chicago would have to be included in that.
I wonder if Stern would considering this “tampering”, although who would he fine? Nike?
Don't call me doughboy!
by Khalid El-Amin on
Nov 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST
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ok, i hate to double-post
but what I just wrote, buried in the middle of the Deng thread, seems just as applicable, and perhaps moreso, in this one.
I recognize the need to get everyone on board, but from what I can tell of the Bulls offense, it’s not VDN that needs to be re-thinking everything (as his "feel some things through ourselves" response to Deng seems to concede). As best I can tell, the offense he’s running seeks to
1. Put the ball in Rose’s hands
2. Have everyone else start at the corners but then move continuously.
On the rare occasions we’ve played that way (really only Milwaukee) we’ve played pretty well.
What I do see is some push back from the players. I see Deng playing how he wants to play. I see Gordon playing how he wants to play. I see Hinrich playing how he wants to play. In short, I see reluctance from these guys to accept their roles and execute the offense. It’s like the old guard that doesn’t want to change the way they’ve done things.
This is a crucial test for VDN. I suppose they need to be respectful of the players. Especially Deng because he should be able to succeed in this offense and because we’ve made a big commitment to him. But they absolutely, positively cannot start changing things in major ways to suit anyone else (I’m looking at you Ben and Kirk). If they refuse to execute the offense, if they refuse to accept the ball in Rose’s hands, if they’re not happy having to run around without the ball now that they’ve got big contracts (in the case of Kirk and Lou) then fuck them.
That’s the problem I see with this article and with the "progress" of the Bulls over the past four games. They started ot well and have a fine plan. But the guys that have been here aren’t buying in and there’s the temptation to try and accomodate them. Take the ball out of Rose’s hands and let the vets do there thing. They’ll even win a couple more games and not ruffle as many feathers. We can all see it starting to happen. The coaches need to see it and figure out how to nip it in the bud, and quickly, before it forms habits and expectations about how things are going to be.
by Sports2 on Nov 5, 2008 1:20 PM CST 8 recs
Good post, rec
You’d think someone who moves so well without the ball would benefit from having Rose as the PG, but Deng really is just continuing his “get the ball, pump fake 13 times and shoot” play from last season. Gordon still has lapses into his “I must do everything because we’re down 20 by not playing me more minutes” mode. Now Kirk seems to be playing well off the bench, though that may just seem apparent because Gordon and Deng are not pulling their weight. I thought this was a team full of high character guys, and then people like Chad Ford are coming out and saying egos have always been a problem for the Bulls? I’m confused.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on
Nov 5, 2008 1:25 PM CST
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Speaking of pump fakes
did you see when TT pumped faked like 40 times then tired to move finding himself on his knee, hilarious
by J Theory on
Nov 5, 2008 2:41 PM CST
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How isn't Gordon
pulling his weight? He hasn’t snapped into the role he should be in yet, but he is still contributing.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on
Nov 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST
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um, is it bad
every time i see one of these green asterisks i think of the splatted tomatoes on rottentomatoes.com? :/
lol… oh well. good post though.
by Jaina on
Nov 5, 2008 2:53 PM CST
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I don'e see why
the players wouldn’t buy into the new system or thet’re new “roles”. It’s not like the old way was so successful.
by scottie33 on
Nov 5, 2008 3:55 PM CST
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I have been generally disgusted throughout the first
four games by how often Gordon and Hinrich have usurped the point guard role when they have been on the court with Rose.
It’s especially disturbing that Gordon, who handles the ball as if a rogue dentist accidentally injected his hands with novocaine, feels perfectly comfortable assuming the point guard position.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on Nov 5, 2008 2:00 PM CST 0 recs
Vinny lied
That was the first time we went to that, and you have to find a way to work the kinks out.
The 3 guard lineup was used against Memphis in the 4th quarter.
It was used for 1 minute.
Fire Vinny.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 5, 2008 3:10 PM CST 0 recs
he lied, he lied!
if this is sarcasm, this is really bad sarcasm. if this anger, this is really bad anger.
by DangerMouse on
Nov 5, 2008 5:54 PM CST
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