I thought it summed up the game perfectly. These guys need to defer to Rose, even if it is a hit to their egos, or whatever. It really was frustrating watching Lu disappear, Kirk attempt to be the PG again, and BG try to take over every possession at the end of the game. Tyrus being benched I was actually okay with, because he’s been god awful the last 3 games for the most part. Hopefully he continues to start though, otherwise that would be annoying. It’s still early.

Best line:

Drew Gooden hit a few early shots and as a result thought it justified whatever else he threw up. And speaking of throwing up, Luol Deng was completely missing, not making a single field goal and finishing with 1 point in 25 minutes.

I had a good laugh there. Thanks for that.

I did not read most of the comments in the venting thread…and if you’re going to be a reactionary goof, please put it there.

I just wrote it in a shorter way . .

What Gordon has to realize now that Derrick is playing
If he moves without the ball, Rose will find him!

Instead, he feels like the only way he’ll have a chance to save the game is for him to handle AND shoot when the game is on the line

by Option27 on Nov 3, 2008 6:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

“It is a good lineup,” Rose said of the three-guard. “But it is up to coach. We’re a young team and trying to get to know one another and play with each other. For us to go out there and come back like that really showed good signs.”

I’ve always believed in going with your best talent and what works best for you, no matter what the convention is. You try to put players in position to succeed. The Bulls don’t have post players. So don’t bother. Former coach Scott Skiles used three-guard sets often, but Del Negro isn’t as demanding on missed shots and there seems the potential to play with more freedom. Plus, I like to put opposing offenses, like Don Nelson does, in position to try to attack you because of a perceived match-up advantage with what they might not do best.

Link

It was a game with shades of last year, but unlike last year we managed to somewhat fight our way back.

David B. Thorpe at 9:52pm November 3

The Bulls have put in an entirely new offense, and it is not small forward friendly. As of now. Stay tuned!

he’s only gonna get more confident and more assertive. there will come a time, hopefully sooner rather than later, when the supporting cast will understand that the best chance to win occurs with rose with the ball. they’ll all get a chance to score points, but they won’t need to try to create their own shot.

I know we lost, and that sux, but really this was a good game.

I dont think orlando can be considered a great team, but they are the teams we definetly gotta beat to get some respect in the league. I think this game really should have been ours.

One key thing i noticed, and so did stacey, that we won the 2nd and 4th quarters of the game and lost the 1st and 3rd. The main reasons for this is Thabo, Deng, and Tyrus. Im not gonna pull a ‘they suck, trade them now’ rant (enough people will do that for me :>) ) but they clearly were not helping us at all in this game, and ultimately i think that is what led to the 3 guard lineup.

Thabo had a couple of good defensive plays, but his turnovers turned me off. That and his inability to score especially since he is more of slasher, and howard would have killed him had he tried that. Which was also the biggest problem for deng and tyrus.

Those three werent impacting the game at all, and were playing against their strengths which on the offensive side is taking it to the rim. The three guard lineup was working because our three guards were either defending well (hinrich) shooting well (gordon) or were named rose (hall of famer) and noch was completely unafraid of howard.

The end of the game play by gordon was foreshadowed when gordon hit the end of the half jump shot, maybe it was gordons fault for taking the shot, maybe hinrichs for giving the ball to gordon or vdn for not calling timeout, but that play really was bad. No one wouldve minded rose missing the shot, everyone hated gordon for missing it.

Hinrich didnt get involved in the offense, mainly due to his lack of of offensive moves, he is only effective taking shots that are open rather then contested. his defense was good on turkoglu but his play overall wasnt amazing. If it wasnt for the poor performaces by deng thabo and tyrus hinrich wouldve seen more bench time. Gordon looked good out there on offense, but he portrayed that need to control the ball to score. Rose gave him a few nice dishes where he shouldve just popped the shot, but he either missed or decided to put the ball down.

Well the cavs are gonna scare me, but i see us beating the suns….

Now, we’ll see how VDN and Paxs responds..

winning in Memphis was the worst thing that could have happened. The Bulls played exactly the same way tonight that they did then. The difference is they won, so naturally they think that they can keep playing that way and win. To me the play seems to be getting worse as the season progresses, and you can almost see the trend in Rose’s assist numbers. The only game that the Bulls played together was the Bucks game, when Rose had 9 assists. This also reflects in the teams assist totals. They had 27 assists vs. the Bucks then 13, 19, and 11. Until the team starts playing TOGETHER, then they will keep being inept on offense. As far as the players go, Tryus is playing really soft, Noah has zero energy, Gooden is a black hole, Deng is too but he is also playing like he is lost on offense. That’s not to say that these players are our only problems, but they are the most glaring and frustrating to me.

The Bulls had the ball with what was potentially the last possession with the shot clock off, rather than call a time out like they are supposed to, they pushed the ball up the court and Gordon took a bad shot. If the coach/players had made the right play in that situation, we could be discussing how we pulled on out…

The fact is we have a rookie coach with a rookie star…both of whom showed their greenness last night down the stretch…we will get better as the players begin to learn their roles and the coach learns how to use them in those roles. But those types of chemistry issues take time.

This team is in desperate need of spacing. Last night, the three guard offense seemed to provide that. I don’t think they have to go uber-small to get that kind of spacing. At least one of Thabo, Luol, and Tyrus needs to be moved from the starting line up. My preference would be Gordon replacing Thabo. Kirk would suffice. My fear is VDN is just waiting for Hughes to return before making a change at the 2.

If he can’t make that change, then Noc needs to come in for Luol or Tyrus. The two of them seem to be getting in each other’s way right now. And as Matt said, when either gets the ball, they just take it as its their turn to shoot. I think if BG is out there with Deng and Tyrus, it’d open things enough for them to start getting the ball slashing to the basket instead of running iso’s on the wing or top of the key. If BG’s out there, it’d at least open things up a bit more to make those 1 on 1 plays a bit more effective.

One other thing I’ve noticed is that Rose has been run off to the quarter more than just at the end of halves. It seems there’s been far too many plays (though, in this situation 1 would qualify as too many) when Rose brings the ball up the court gives it to Thabo and runs to the corner or wing. It’s not enough to have your best players on the court. The ball must be in their hands as much as possible.

…of a Rose-first team concept. I’m guessing that’s part of the reason any uber-star has a team-wide change. Guys don’t want to defer to a 20-year-old. They don’t want to believe, and thus won’t, that deferring to him will make them a better player.

I’m putting this on Del Negro and Paxson. Sure, a few guys will have to go; they’ll just never get it. However, there are some (maybe Hinrich, Nocioni, maaaaaaaybe Gordon, etc.) who, if slapped up-side their head and made to realize they aren’t in the future of this franchise unless they capitulate, might actually change. Until the coach demands it, it’s not happening. Hell, Paxson’s insistence all summer that Rose wasn’t ready and to take things slow might have something to do with that.

With Dwight Howard on the bench.

2nd Quarter
00:06:42
Gordon 2pt – make
Noah 2pt at rim – blocked
Thomas 2pt – miss
Thomas 2pt – make
Thomas 2pt – miss
Rose 2pt – miss
Gordon 3pt – miss
Thomas 2pt – miss
Thomas 2pt – make
Hinrich 2pt – make
Gooden 2pt – miss

recap: Magic extend lead by 5 to 13 points.

4th Quarter
00:02:48
Bulls get 2 shots at the rim. 1 gooden makes. 1 Nocioni makes and gets hacked.
Hinrich 3pt – miss
Hinrich 3pt – miss
Deng 2pt – miss

recap: Magic 8 point lead drops to 6.

If you don’t attack the rim when Dwight Howard is sitting on the bench you have failed to take advantage of the matchups. Superstars don’t sit for very long, but when they do if you do not make your opponent pay for it then you are not going to win close games.

You can see Stan Van Gundy paying attention. In the 2nd he’s not in a rush to put Howard back out there because it’s not really hurting the team. The Magic were extending the lead with Howard on the bench. In the 4th, Howard is rushed back out there after less than 3 minutes of rest. When Rose checked in for Deng the 3 guard lineup was out there so SVG puts the big fella back out there to clog the paint and get the rebounds.

You put the 3 guard lineup in to space the floor, but also to get to the rim. You have to attack the opponent and make them foul you. It’s the only way the three guard lineup really works unless they shoot lights out. They’re not going to rebound. They’re small. So it has to fall on the first attempt or it has to fall in the 2 FTA with 85+% FT shooters.

a night of some pretty stupid basketball for the Chicago Bulls.

The team played needlessly small lineups during good runs and bad runs, got away with it for spells (probably the worst thing that could happen), and managed to make a game of it relying on bad three-point shooting and low-percentage perimeter looks that went in. Most other games, these shots won’t go in. And the Bulls will suffer, badly. This morale win will hurt more than it will help because it will allow the Bulls and the Chicago coaching staff to think that Andres Nocioni pulling up for bombs early in the shot clock or as a transition threat helps. Or that running an undersized power forward, a small forward, and three 6-2 guards as a five-man outfit will work down the stretch. Or that playing Derrick Rose off the ball while Kirk Hinrich dribbles like it is 2004 somehow makes sense. The Bulls could have done much, much better; but because they nearly pulled this one out, they may have done themselves a year-long disservice. Great.

I definitely see some people here already buying into ‘the Noc’ after this freaking game. Argh.

We all know the second most important thing to watch for this season is how players play off of Derrick. We have seen Noc figure it out, Gordan and Heinrich look solid in stretches, and Thabo at least doesn’t dominate the ball when playing with Rose. The fact that Deng looks lost on the court is a serious problem.

The last three games the Bulls have gotten very little out of the Ty Deng frontcourt. Ty looks like he regressed to last year after last night’s poor ball handling and shot selection but someone always can say he’s still young so that’s not the urgent problem.

Deng looks lost on the court with Rose. KC Johnson wrote that Deng is getting lost in the corners when Rose runs Pick and Roll/Pop and he hasn’t figured out how to get an open shot. We all know Deng can’t get to the basket and has looked horrible doing so this season. Last nights statline of 0-8 was really 0-4 with 3 tips and a shotclock heave. So Deng got 4 shots in the offense last night. That is a huge problem when this team needs some scoring out of their first unit. Deng’s defense has been fine and will have to be with Lebron coming twice this week, but Del Harris better figure out how to have Deng run trail and hit open jumpers on the secondary break or he may be lost for good in Rose’s offense.

I’m a Gordon supporter, but he needs to realize who the man is >>>> it’s ROSE! Last nights game could of been had if the ball was in Rose’s hand. And Deng! Don’t even get me started. What was Paxson thinking? If he couldn’t take the pressure of last year (the kobe rumors + the not signing regret), why did Paxson think Deng could handle the pressure of a 72 million $$$ contract!!?!?!? Luol is the POSTER CHILD for guys in this league who are just in it for the $$$. In my opinion he doesn’t LOVE the game and he’s not in it for the right reason >> CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! He doesn’t want to go all in. Plus the guys soft as hell! Did any of you hear his comments the other day. He basically blamed his bad play on Rose. Unbelievable!!! He doesn’t know how to play with him. That’s what he said. What a BAD signing!!!

But athletic 3’s give Deng all kinds of problems. Might as well use Thabo for defense if Deng isn’t gonna score and can’t guard the Andre Iguodala, Rashard Lewis, or Rudy gay’s of the league.

reminds me of one of those old electric football games…nobody knows where to go, people are running around with no purpose and bumping into each other, the spacing stinks, plays are only successful by accident, etc

maybe there is a referee that participates on this site that can answer this. isn’t the rule supposed to be that if a defender jumps straight up to contest a shot or layup, and the offensive player jumps into him, it should not be a shooting foul?? meaning, the defender jumps straight up, still occupying his spot on the floor, which he is entitled to. if the shooter jumps towards him to initiate contact, but the defender jumps up instead of towards the shooter and gets a clean block, it shouldn’t be a foul. this is what i’ve heard from analysts during games. i’ve seen Aaron Gray do this once or twice the last 2 games, and he gets called. i forgot who the shooter driving to the basket was last night, but Gray maintained his position, went straight up, barely got off the ground (cause obviously he can’t jump), got a clean hand on the ball, and got called for a foul. i dunno. but those calls frustrate me. the kids trying to play sound D and gets a foul for it. i just needed to get that off my chest.

and Lu needs to not worry about ‘getting his’. he has his contract. he needs to let the game come to him instead of forcing it. thats when he plays his best, slashing, running the floor, and spotting up for mid-range jumpers. don’t force the issue, Lu. you’ll get yours.

i’ve just heard it explained where its like a charge vs. a blocking foul. if the defender beats the ballhandler to the spot, he has the right, then, to that spot on the floor, thus its a charge. if the ballhandler gets there first, he has the right to the spot and its a blocking foul. i think it kinda holds true when driving the lane. on almost any play towards the basket there will be body contact, but if its not the defender initiating the contact, then it should be a no call. i know most times they will call that, but i think its a BS call. if you’re a defender and you have your position set on the floor, and the shooter jumps towards you, you should still be able to contest the shot. same thing when a 3-point shooter jumps into a defender who is jumping straight up in the air just to have a hand up there. i’ve seen that no-called plenty.

i dunno. the ambiguity of fouls in the NBA is so frustrating. and players get points when getting fouled. POINTS, not field position, or a face-off, but actual points!! maybe i should be an NBA ref.

apart from Rose (big exeption) our scouts kinda sucks