Iverson going to the Pistons? (UPDATE: Confirmed?)
I can't seem to find a link to anything anywhere, but ESPN just reported care of Stephen A Smith that a trade is in the works for Iverson going to the Pistons for Billups and Antonio McDyess
[Found this confirmation, via DBB -ed.]
about 1 year ago
Tobo
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Boston Globe reporter Marc Spears
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2008/11/iverson_to_pist.html
A source close to Nuggets guard Allen Iverson is telling people in Denver that he expects to be traded to the Detroit Pistons for Chauncey Billups.
This would be way out of left field if it goes down. It would be a major coup for Denver to pull off this trade.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great move by Denver.
Looks like that won’t be a possible destination for kirk anymore
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Link
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3679931
I like the trade for both teams.
by chlutz508 on Nov 3, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
also heard on espn 1000
and http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3679931
B.J. for three.... KABOOM!
by chibullsfan03 on Nov 3, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is what happens when teams have GMs who don't just sit on their hands all day
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 11:04 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know, can we trade for Dumars?
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 3, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha, I was waiting for this
I will say it’s better to make no deals than to have ‘balls’ for the sake of bad deals (see the Shaq or Kidd trade).
But there’s little excuse for Paxson to continually do nothing with this obvious roster balance problem….especially considering the coach that was hired.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 9 recs
But there’s little excuse for Paxson to continually do nothing with this obvious roster balance problem….especially considering the coach that was hired.
Exactly.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 3, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm down...
You take this to serious.. :s
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 3, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
+1, really? Jesus christ,
by NittanyCub on Nov 3, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why
This should be a place where people could have some fun, where they could express some ideas (correct or wrong) about the bulls and basketball in general. But some people take this to serious, like if their life depends on it… There’s a lot of thing more important in life.
If I posted that, it was because I saw people doing the same thing on other posts. I didn’t knew that option in the actions section. Now I know and I will try not to make the same mistake again… But calm down!!!
:s
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually don't think anyone was upset.
It’s a pretty automatic and quick reaction that involves zero emotion or anxiety. You’re the one using exclamation points. It’s a reminder, not a demand.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The exclamation point is a habit
Don’t pay much attention to that… ;)
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 3, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Man, I just wish there was a way for me to show that +1 into a type of expression button to compliment this comment. Almost to show my support behind it.
A recommendation, of some sort.
by NittanyCub on Nov 3, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't find it fun
to read how much fun I should be having. Or perspective.
I friggin hate it, actually.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rec, Rec, REC
You’ll a little “actions” link to the right of the ‘reply’ link. Just click ‘actions’, then click ‘Rec’.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes!
although now we’ve all wasted 3 comments to chastise the wasting of one :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Kaboom!!!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They weren't going anywhere anyway. I like it. Takes some stones.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 3, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah.
I don’t think that’s a good enough reason, personally.
If they think this will make them better this season, then that’s a good reason.
Good news: we no longer have to worry about the Pistons guards posting us up! Ben Gordon can stay!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
though maybe they're clearing cap for Gordon, heh.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They are clearing $19 million off the books next year.
So… Kirk is more loved by the Bulls than Billups by the Pistons, eh? I’m starting to really dislike this team. It’s ridiculous that anyone other than Rose is even mildly “untouchable”. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless I'm seeing something wrong
they will be 15mm at least under the cap next year if they don’t resign Rasheed. Gordon/Stuckey/Hamilton could work as a backcourt trio. Wouldn’t surprise me, but I don’t see Dumars overpaying for him.
by CJ Bulls on Nov 3, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well as the market has dictated,
Gordon’s asking price effectively has fallen for this coming season.
All Dumars has to do is outbid all others interested in signing Gordon, something that may not cost as much as we thought.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 3, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
either way
more teams under the cap is good news for Gordon.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thus the 'heh'
Hamilton has a player option for next season. He could opt-out for a long-term deal somewhere, especially if he thinks that Detroit is going young.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So do the Bulls risk going after Hamilton if he opts
or do they wait for Wade….. ?
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
eh?
Bulls aren’t under the cap after this season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
D-Rose is going to abuse AI on defense. The tables have finally turned!!!!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolute brass balls (to trade one metaphor for another).
To anyone who would say, “He should’ve given this group one more chance”, Dumars is probably saying, “I did. Last year. Now it’s time for me to clear some cap space.”
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 3, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Has anybody considered that they might extend Iverson's deal rather than clear the space?
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 3, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it
The Pistons have Stuckey who they think can be a legit star, and unless AI comes back for way less I don’t see why they would extend him. Dumars knows his starting 5 was going nowhere in the playoffs, better to start the process of creating a new contender now than later.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
With $24M under the cap or so
they could probably make a hard run at someone and then potentially sign AI for less if they get him. They’ll have enough cap space to do both.
They could also probably push it all a year down the road and go for someone in 2010 by extending AI one more year.
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Billups > Iverson
This looks like a clear salary dump move. They’ll let Iverson walk after this year, and go with a lineup of Stuckey, Hamilton, Tayshaun, Amir Johnson, and Kwame Brown(?) in the future. The Pistons are done for awhile.
by YaoPau on Nov 3, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They'll still be good this year with (please, Sports2, correct me if I'm wrong)
$15M in cap space in the offseason could make them better in a hurry.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer?
I have no idea where Joe Dumars wants to go other than to win 50 games every year.
Gawd, Joe D is a good front office man.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer would be a hell of an addition to that team, especially w/ Maxiel and Johnson to help on the defensive end
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they'd still need a point guard.
wait, my replica Rodney Stuckey hall-of-fame plaque just arrived.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I'm buying into the Stuckey hype
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't seen much of him
But the Pistons are certainly buying into the hype.
The Bulls have yet to buy into the Rose hype :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should watch more of him.
Dude is legit and reminds of Dwyane Wade.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you forgot
to put the words “poor man’s” in front.
by CJ Bulls on Nov 3, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
I think Stuckey is the truth
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But
when I suggested to trade for Iverson to clear cap space this summer everyone called me an idiot.
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn't use your Joe Dumars voice
it sounded more like Jim Paxson when you suggested it.
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say idiotic, but it's something the Pistons could do and the Bulls couldn't.
The Pistons have a veteran team and organization that could handle AI.
The Bulls would turn into a three ring circus.
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like they'll have less than $40 million committed???
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it'll be b/t $30M and $35M
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By my count they'll have something like $20-$24M in cap space this summer
So yeah, they’ve got a lot of options.
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How does this effect Detroit's cap situation after this year?
With 20 mil coming off the books, does this make them a legit player in Free Agency?
by BNeL21 on Nov 3, 2008 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good point
This wipes $19 mil off the books this year and $13 mil off the books in 2010. They obviously have somebody in mind. I doubt they extend Iverson.
by YaoPau on Nov 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
Rip Hamilton has a $11.5m option next season…he may have been opting out regardless but this could put him over the edge.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boozer and Gordon?
Stuckey, Gordon, Prince, Boozer, _____________z
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
¿Hermann!
damn. What’s the keystroke for upside down exclamation mark. I need some Spanish pizzazz here.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so this year the pistons are looking at
Iverson
Hamilton
Prince
Johnson
Wallace
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 3, 2008 11:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Plus Stuckey
They could also go small with Stuckey, AI, Rip, Tayshaun, and Sheed.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I did not see this coming. Detroit will have a hard time meshing with AI's need for the ball
The other side of this is that Detroit didn’t seem to be going anywhere this year. I think Denver gets better but I am not sure. The only thing I can say for certain is we need our ever evasive big inside presence. Is there a college guy out there to draft next year who could fill the bill? I would look to get a 1st roungd pick if that were the case. Who is in the NBA now worth chasing?
by chgobr on Nov 3, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
PickAxeandRoll's take
I think this trade clearly makes the Nuggets a better team right now, and probably next year too, but I have to say at this point they are still not a contender at the level of the Lakers, Hornets and Jazz. I do think this trade will put them firmly in the playoffs ahead of teams like the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks though and they will be a much tougher out than they have been the previous five seasons. With the new defensive focus and intensity we have seen and with the addition of a player in Billups, who will fit better than AI in a half court setting and will add another player capable of hitting 40% of his threes to pair with J.R., the Nuggets are going to be a team to be reckoned with….Denver basically has two seasons to build the roster around Billups, Melo, J.R., Nene and Kenyon before they can do what they did with AI and deal Billups as he enters the last year of his deal.
Also in that post: The Nuggets will try and get a reduced buyout of McDyess to get themselves under the tax (the trade already reduces their ’09 payroll), and Cheik Samb is also coming over from the Pistons.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Is McDyess
toast? I didn’t really see him as a throw in in this deal, I figured he could help with the “defensive presence” on the Nuggets…
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on Nov 3, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was just going to post the same thing
The Bulls desperately need someone who can handle physical C’s and McDyess could fit the bill a hell of a lot better than Aaron Gray.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's strong
but McDyess is not that big. He would be better than Gray though.
Besides, if he’s talking retirement as a result of this trade, I’d have to think if he becomes a FA he’ll re-sign with the Pistons (after that 30-day waiting period)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just say no
to bringing more 35 year old big men. We saw how it worked with Joe Smith and Ben Wallace. It’s a development year, and we have three young bigs who need minutes.
by YaoPau on Nov 3, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen enough fumbled rebounds by Gray
We only have 2 young bigs to develop and a chance to make the playoffs this year. A more physical big would help.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
YaoPau was including Gray. I didn’t catch that :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree we need a more physical big - who are you thinking about?
by chgobr on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McDyess, he's not tall or wide, but he's been able to hold his own in the past
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, sure, but while we wait for Orlando to come to their senses and send us Howard
for Hughes and Gooden…
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
um, absolutely.
good luck finding another one.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JaVale McGee!
He’s from Chicago too.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah those are just walking around the Berto Center waiting to be signed
I would love to have McDyess over Gray as a backup C. He can actually score, rebound, you know do things that most NBA players need to do to keep a job.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Making the playoffs is overrated
Let’s say we make the playoffs with Gooden and McDyess playing 50 minutes combined each night. We get the 7th seed and lose ot the Pistons in the first round. What did we gain? 3 games of playoff experience for Rose? Hinrich and Deng each have 20+ games of playoff experience, and I still don’t trust them to step up in a playoff series.
I’d much rather finish this year in 9th place, but knowing that we gave Tyrus and Noah every opportunity to develop so we can decide on their roles in the future, when we actually have a shot of winning anything. And yes, Aaron Gray deserves a chance too.
by YaoPau on Nov 3, 2008 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not looking for McDyess to play a huge role to the point of taking minutes from Noah and Thomas
I would rather he take Gray’s ill-deserved minutes to match up against bigger post players that Thomas and Noah can’t handle at this point in their careers.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's 4 games of playoff experience, mister!
I’d rather Rose played for a team that was looking to win as much as possible. I don’t think playing McDyess and Gooden a bunch does that anyway.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McDyess is a thrown in
but he’s a real rebounder. can his knees keep up with the Nuggets pace though? There will be plenty of opps to get boards on both ends, but his body has to be able to keep up with him.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Billups has never been much of a runner, will be interesting to see if Karl actually slows things down
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
continuing with my summer fixation of George Karl
he’s an adaptive awesome coach, so I’m sure he will slow it down :-D
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
btw, I like this deal for the Nuggets too
They were not going to be able to move Nene or Kenyon Martin, and trading Carmelo would’ve also been shortsighted, so might as well try and win with them.
They took advantage of a team trying to clear long-term salary in exchange for reducing their own immediate payroll. I’m not for applauding a team just because they got under the tax, but the Nuggets payroll was not barely over, it was completely out of control before the Camby and now Iverson deals. And since they saved that money, they at least have a chance to improve themselves before the end of the year as well.
I like it less for the Pistons. It seems an odd time for them to drastically change the team….but they still have lots of big, short-term contracts, so maybe they’re not done either. I find it very interesting that Dumars thought Flip and Billups were the first who needed to go from their core. Now you have Iverson, Sheed, and a rookie head coach.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Stuckey is the future at PG
than Billups had to go at some point. Dumars wanted to make a move to improve the team but also to pass the torch to Stuckey.
I would not be shocked to see Hamilton come off the bench or perhaps even dealt. I expect Stuckey to start at the 1 at some point this season. He can guard the 2s for Iverson as well.
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
meh, the Lakers , Hornets, and Jazz
are really filthy awesome good.
The Celtics are the only team inthe East I’d put with these 3 WC teams.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the Pistons suddenly look a lot like the team that
Iverson took to the finals in 2001. I just don’t think Iverson is as good now.
The Nuggets are firmly in the playoffs with this trade.
by DangerMouse on Nov 3, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Pistons are much better than that 2001 Sixers team in my opinion
so that should mitigate the decline in Iverson from that time.
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the talent level of that Sixers team was extremely putrid outside of AI and Mutumbo
This team still has Rip, Sheed, Prince, as well as Amir Johnson and Stuckey.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol McKie and his anemic body?
Oh and Raja Bell and Eric Snow!!!
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So Billups was the problem?
And not Wallace? This is confusing. Everyone assumed Dumars was to move Wallace because he was the biggest problem.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Rasheed being moved next.
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I don’t get why he wasn’t the first to go
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because he has value.
And Sheed is still tradeable. Or just expiring. It’s definitely a one step back, for more steps forward.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now that they traded Billups' contract for an expiring one...
…they can take back a longer, bad contract in any trade for Wallace, if they want.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheed for Randolph?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean more as someone like Nocioni for a throw-in or something.
I don’t know exactly who… Just that… if they wanted to trade for a $10 or $11 million player, they could offer to take on a $5 or $6 million bad contract for Rasheed Wallce if the other team wanted.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Billups has been awful in the playoffs the last 2 seasons.
I don’t think he was the problem but he certainly wasn’t the solution. I just think this shows their trust in Stuckey. I think the trust is a bit misplaced, but that is what it shows.
by DangerMouse on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My biggest hope from this trade?
Paxson realizes no one is untouchable, even if Hinrich and Nocioni are among the best players on an already crappy team. Trade the guys and get value. Take a step back if it leads to taking more steps forward.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 11:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hinrich is statistically
our best player this season.
Prospects of playing the Bucks and Grizz every other game: Zero.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No he isn't.
Gooden is, then Rose, then Hinrich(if we’re looking at PER).
by NittanyCub on Nov 3, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How crappy for Billups.
Took less money to keep this team together and then gets shipped out. Get your no-trade clause, man!
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 12:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and that is why players NEVER
should take less money. Management never appreciates it.
by DangerMouse on Nov 3, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe Billups was thrilled with the idea of going back to his hometown.
by Stay Chisel on Nov 3, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, though you have to imagine he's a little pissed
That he’s leaving the same group of guys/coaches/management that’s been together since their championship run. For a guy who had been a journeyman before he became a Piston, it had to have been nice to have continuity.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least he's going home, though. It's not like he got shipped to Memphis or somewhere similarly awful.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The deal still would have worked if he signed for $8 million more per year.
He gave up money for continuity (I don’t know how much) and now he doesn’t have it… regardless if he liked the change.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This kills the rumor that came out this morning
that Denver was eyeing Marbury
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 12:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Billups has been playing with Rip so long
I think it will be interesting to see how each does with someone else.
And I realize that it’s almost irresistable whenever there is a trade in the leauge for people to not gripe over Pax not making one, but how many people seriously thought AI could be a good fit here? Obviously Billups wouldn’t. Honestly, with the exception of Larry, I’d prefer Pax wait for a good trade than go the salary dump route.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Nov 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There were supposed good trades this summer.
And when you’re trying to build a team, a salary dump is sometimes as good a player. Do you really think this is about the Pistons getting Iverson for one year? Or is it about his expiring contract? It’d be the same for the Bulls. The team trades away a franchise-but-not-untouchable player w/ a long contract for financial flexibility.
The frustration w/ Paxson is more that Hinrich is somewhat “untouchable” when even Billups is not. Paxson knows Hinrich is a good player. He also probably realizes he’s dealing from a position of weakness. My guess is that he wants to hold out for “equal value” for Hinrich when he clearly can’t because of Derrick Rose.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I didn't explain what I meant very well.
I don’t disagree with you. What I was trying to say is that, imo, this trade is pretty darn irrelevant to the Bulls. I’ve seen a few mentions of AI in various trade threads, but I don’t think he’d be a good fit with Rose because of wanting the ball so much, and it seems like the majority of people felt that way. Billups would obviously not be of interest to the Bulls. So this trade didn’t take anyone off the market that the Bulls might want. The best argument I can see for how it impacts the Bulls is that Denver now seems unlikely to trade ‘Melo, and there was some interest in him. I didn’t share that interest. So basically, we’re just taking advantage of another opportuntiy to rip on Pax for not doing stuff we assume was doable and would improve the team. Only it’s all been said before, so it’s getting more than a little repetitive.
While I get that every trade any other team makes is likely to bring out the complaining that Pax hasn’t made one, I just wanted to gripe about it for a second. It’s a thread that interests me in the sense of how this impacts the league, and the Bulls specifically, but that means wading through the same old Pax-hate.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Nov 3, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not that we wanted Paxson to perform this trade per se
But to at least come out and say, that after a bad season certain players are no longer deemed untouchable. I liked how Dumars behaved after his team lost in the ECF again, basically saying changes have to be made in order to get better. With Pax, if it wasn’t for the number 1 pick, things would have been exactly the same this year as last. No one wants to give away Kirk or Noce (or whomever) for nothing, but trades are always available.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"this trade didn’t take anyone off the market that the Bulls might want."
It could’ve if Denver was open to dealing for Hinrich
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. And Iverson for 2+ months...
….is way more tolerable than Iverson for six months. This trade takes away a destination for Hinrich and creates another one for Gordon. That’s not a horrible situation (especially if one wants Hinrich to stay and Gordon to leave), but it does pigeonhole the Bulls a little bit more in their options.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Gordon leaves
we go after Hamilton. It’s a ripple effect man!
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's a smart move!
And they wouldn’t have the space for him anyway. Come again?
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Explain
who wouldn’t have the space for who?
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls will have $56 million locked up.
The cap won’t be over $60 million will likely stay the same as this year, around $58 million. Not enough to sign Hamilton.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true if you are in dumping mode,
which is different than looking at what the Bulls need to bring in. All we can really tell from this particular trade is that the teams were willing to give up the players they sent out for some price. We don’t know for sure that the Nuggets would have been willing to give up someone we want in exchange for Kirk. You want to go back and gripe about them giving up Camby for nothing while in need of a PG, yeah, that sucks – add it to your list of Pax failures. But, generically speaking, getting back other positions unless we’re sending out 2 for 1, we likely just shift the glut around.
But discussing how that’s one less place for Kirk isn’t the kind of post I was talking about, anyway – I’m just kind of sick of the negativity around here of late. I don’t spend as much time here as I used to because so much is griping about Pax, about the players other than Derrick, and totally overreacting to the very beginning of the season. Obviously people are free to vent as much as they want, but reading all of it kind of ruins what enjoyment I get out of the Bulls. Typically I try to ignore it, but sometimes I feel like bitching about all the bitching. Where sports are concerned, I prefer to be naively optimistic about the future and let go of the past as quickly as possible so that it remains something that’s fun for me.
Btiching over, I feel better, you all feel free to return to your Pax hate and I’ll avoid the thread.
Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!
by wjb1492 on Nov 3, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NO YOU READ OUR KIRK HATE AND ENJOY IT!!!!!!
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ALL OUR KIRK HATE ARE BELONG TO US
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured Melo would be the one to get traded
This is…..odd. I guess Dumars just wants to shake things up by trading his best player on the starting 5? This is a nice salary dump for Detroit, but I’m wondering how effective Hamilton will be alongside a guy who’s mentality is rarely pass-first.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
When asked to be a full-time PG,
Iverson has averaged double-digit assists.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 3, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...or close to it.
I’ll look this up when I get the chance…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 3, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but stats don't tell the full story
I’m not certain if AI was running the team like a PG. Starbury averaged 8+ APG for his career (until recently, I’m guessing) but would you call him a PG who makes his teammates better?
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Spoken like a true Bulls fan :)
For as much as we ridicule shoot-first PG’s like Iverson, Starbury and even Francis, they were All-Stars and Bulls PG’s were not. It’s easy to look at them today and think they’re not worth the trouble. But in past years, they were basically what Rose is to us now.
The Bulls’ PG’s have never averaged high assists because they simply couldn’t.
Skiles compensated pretty well with his drive-and-kick system. But that stat is actually pretty important in assessing PG’s. Especially if you go back to your original comment, which indicated that Rip might not receive that many passes.
With A. I. at point, the team’s scorers may continue to receive passes with opportunities to score. That’s what that stat means.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 3, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Starbury and Francis weren't winners
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And all three have been moved to 2 guard in their careers
after failing to hold down the point.
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And AI was moved to the 2 in Denver as well as Philly
He can get you 7-8 assists a game, but whether the team plays like a solid unit rather than a glorified isolation game remains to be seen on an Iverson-led team that isn’t full of scrubs.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pistons will be a good fit for his game though
Hamilton’s game is off screens without the ball and Prince and Sheed both seem to be ok w/ hanging out behind the three point line. I think AI will fit in well with the team offensively. It’s on the defensive end that things could get more interesting.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm quite excited to see Rose vs AI
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see AI on Rose w/ Amir Johnson at C
With AI likely bailing out going for steals, Rose could get Johnson to foul out in 6 possessions.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn AI
all ways been a fan
"You’re caught up in basketball. Get caught up in life" - Starbury "The Great"
by Belize on Nov 3, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who comes off the bench?
They have Stuckey, Iverson, and Rip.
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 12:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Iverson and Rip backcourt, Prince, Amir, Sheed
Maxiell and Stuckey come off the bench.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thabo Sefolosha starts.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TrueHoop
seems to float the idea Pistons are moving towards 2010. They’ll have the money for 2 big time free agents. Along with Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell for sure. They would make an interesting destination. Detroit doesn’t seem like the place to be, but they do run a good organization.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-36-1/Joe-Dumars-Strikes-Again.html
by CJ Bulls on Nov 3, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Prince, Stuckey, and Maxiell"
now there’s a big three.
I still think any 2010 destination has to have at least a good team, not just max cap room.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ziller on Fanhouse floats the 2009 concept
Hamilton can also opt out, which could give Dumars 30 million that ideally he could use to sign more than 1 player. Maybe a pickup of BG and Marion? Or Boozer?
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that makes more sense
Though it’s possible if Hamilton opts out they can re-sign him to a long term deal with a lower 2009 salary. They may want to do that instead of taking a chance on Gordon, though I guess it all depends on years/money, as Gordon’s significantly younger.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I already made that pitch!
Is Stuckey, Gordon, Prince, Boozer, Johnson any good?
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Although there aren’t many teams you can put Gordon on where I’m going to like it.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it works if Amir Johnson is a defensive force
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok....but
how does Stuckey, Wade, Prince, Maxiell, Bosh sound?
I don’t think it’s crazy to believe two of these guys might join together with a new organization, one known as among the best in basketball (probably #2 behind SA). The list of superstars (past and present) for 2010 is huge. It worked for Orlando many years ago, although obviously Hill was hurt.
by CJ Bulls on Nov 3, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Better than Rose, Wade, Deng, Thomas and Bosh?
W/ Noah backing up? That’s about as likely.
by tyger1147 on Nov 3, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh god, that lineup is jaw-droppingly sexy.
That would be, like, a guaranteed 5 titles in a row.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if Deng can stretch his range behind the arc
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
by snley on Nov 3, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he only he could dunk
in traffic.
Head pump offense gives me a headache.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bulls won't be under enough for two names
They’d have to trade everyone but Deng and Noah. Thomas would have to be cut as a RFA along with Thabo.
by CJ Bulls on Nov 3, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a dream team there
But we don’t know if Wade would come here if Miami signs Gordon next year :(
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 3, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger disagrees
Josh Grand Rapids Michigan: John with Iverson’s contract expiring after this year. What do you see the Pistons doing in the upcoming free agent market as well as 2010. Who do you see them pursuing??
John Hollinger: (3:38 PM ET ) Well, the first option has to be Kobe, but I doubt Dumars made this deal thinking that was a realistic possibility. But there are some other potentially interesting players out there in 2009 also, depending on who opts out and how their seasons turn out. But I do believe Dumars will use the $$$ in ‘09 and not ’10. And forget about LeBron — the Global Icon isn’t leaving Cleveland just to play in Detroit for less money.
From today’s chat
by NormVanBeer on Nov 3, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is one of those rare trades where both teams win.
The Pistons have their PG of the future waiting in the wings with Stuckey…Now they have the flexibility moving forward to make another deal to improve their team with over $34M in expiring deals to move at the deadline or just simply let expire…
The Nuggets upgraded their point guard slot and interior depth, their two biggest weaknesses, without breaking the bank. This move also allows the dangerous JR Smith to get minutes starting at the 2 with a legit playmaker next to him. Denver should be much improved this season and next.
Regarding 2010, Prince, Stuckey, Maxiel and Johnson sounds better than Rose, Deng, Thomas and Noah. I am just sayin’
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 12:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy that
It’s way too early to tell how good Rose or Stuckey can actually be, and if Tyrus is raw then Amir is still in the freezer.
Denver did make a good deal. They have to try and make it past the 1st round at least once before 2010. Billups will help their defense, not to mention get Melo and Smith a lot of good shots. McDyess also helps up front since who knows how many games you’ll get out of Nene and K-Mart. It makes them an older team, but they’ve got to do something to win a playoff series.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like McDyess isn't going to play a game for them
which is too bad, as he could fit. But this does give Denver flexibility to make more deals. In fact they still have that huge trade exception from the Camby trade.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McDyess doesn't really have a choice.
He is under contract. If that is the case, then the Nuggets should have asked for a different big man. Because they need some depth there.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is that tough guy talk?
if they buy him out at a discount it works for them, as I think they value getting under the tax more than frontcourt depth.
I agree that the Nuggets have some holes still, but the Pistons have no other big men that makes this trade work.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kwame and Hermann makes it work.
But I see your point, the Nuggets may not be interested in addressing that need with this deal and view McDyess as another pawn in their salary reduction game…
The reason I said he doesn’t have a choice is because ESPN reported that McDyess doesn’t want to play anywhere other than Detroit…In that regard, he doesn’t have a choice.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and thus some leverage from the Nuggets side to get McDyess to take a cheaper buyout
he can then wait 30 days and go back to the Pistons. If he won’t take a discount I don’t see why the Nuggets bother accommodating him.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you are nuts
i’d rather have Rose than any of the others, and that is what the NBA comes down too. I’ll take our top dog over their top dog (Stuckey?) and that will be that.
by DangerMouse on Nov 3, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Although if you take that core and add Boozer next summer than you have something there
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rose, Gray, Ruffin, and Nichols
is better than Prince, Stuckey, Maxiel and Johnson
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dumars needs to job shadow Paxson for a month
by J Theory on Nov 3, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jim Paxson
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really believe that?
Or are you just being a smart-ass? I can’t tell.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
both.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect it's Jim Paxson's benificent effect on his younger brother.
Remember, Jim Paxson is the man who brought Lebron James to Cleveland. He joins the Bulls and suddenly we get Derrick Rose. That can’t possibly be a coincidence!
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So the next logical step
Is that Tyrus Thomas will have a breakout year, tell Paxson to agree to a verbal contract, then take it to another team and sign for bigger money?
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That smart assed opinion is certainly not based on on the court accomplishments.
Though, I think Rose should be best player of that group, though Prince does have a ring. Maxiel and Johnson are akin to Thomas and Noah.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"though Prince does have a ring"
that was very Sam Smith-esque.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and my smart-assed opinion
means I don’t value yours (in this instance) enough to counter more thoughtfully.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only because Rose is in that ghastly group of Bulls you assembled
take him out and we’re left with three guys with no trade value while the Pistons have four guys who do have nice trade value.
by messwiththebull on Nov 3, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah would be on a rookie deal, Tyrus would be an RFA
Deng’s deal is fine as long as he doesn’t stink.
And taking out Rose is a bit unfair. Just a bit.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
You said Rose, Gray, Ruffin and Nichols. I believe that is what MWB is referring.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree on that count too!
Aaron Gray is very tradeable.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just find it strange
that after years of reading how the Bulls depth is worthless because they have no star, that a roster of young ‘depth’ is better in 2010 than one with Derrick Rose. So D2.0 is already starting on a flimsy premise, and I don’t buy that Prince is better than Deng in 2010, or Johnson/Maxiell are better than Noah/Thomas.
Then he says it’s actually an assessment based on accomplishment, as if that matters in the discussion.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yfbb is right.
If Derrick Rose becomes the star we are all dreaming of him becoming, then he alone is better than a collection of depth without a star.
But, there is no definitive right or wrong when predicting the futures of players…in other words, there is no guarantee that any of the 11 names we mentioned will be stars in 2010, so its all speculation. Which is why I looked at previous on the court accomplishments.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it was a speculation in the first place
since you were referring to 2010.
Which is….the future. ::said dramatically::
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of a microsm of the Bulls
I mean, everyone wants to say how great our guys are, but they’re probably similar to that Pistons group. Add one Derrick Rose to the other side of the ledger and it doesn’t matter how many Kirk, Ben, Lou, Noc’s you add to the other side. You take Rose and the scrubs.
Which is why it’s pretty unlikely we’re going to “consolidate” those guys into some superstar vet.
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe only
if they were willing to take a short-term leap into the tax.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They're more likely to announce a multi-million dollar "LEGALIZE IT!" campaign
featuring Jerry, Michael Ruffin’s snakes, and a newly signed Darius Miles
by Sports2 on Nov 3, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
True superstars are rarely traded.
Gasol was close, but the Lakers made a better offer.
Fortunately, we have a nice expiring deal this year and next to pair with some of this depth to return a quality player…
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Prince Stuckey Maxiell Johnson is worthless
Stud defenders, but nobody on that line can score. Even if they bring in Boozer and Gordon, they still don’t contend.
by YaoPau on Nov 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Prince can score enough.
If you have two 20 point machines next to him in Boozer and Gordon.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you've never seen Stuckey play? Interesting.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's quite good, but I don't know if I'd buy into that "next D Wade" hype
Though he has the potential to at least have as much of an impact as Billups did.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 3, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dropped the D-Wade comparison earlier
because that’s the star his game seems to emulate. I don’t think he’ll ever reach the superstar level like D-Wade, but the guy certainly has “star” potential. Good shooter, powerful slasher, solid defender? Sign me up.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know this is the wrong place to ask this, but did Chad Ford stop doing the NBA dish podcast?
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 3, 2008 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
if so, time to re-start it
with his specialty: Interview praising Joe Dumars!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm...this was definitely a shocker
but I don’t know how this helps the situation in Detroit. Oh, and I bet Rip is sad, considering he had a great relationship with him
2009 Cubs: Well, Seems so far away..
by Chanman25 on Nov 3, 2008 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and Ben Wallace is crying himself to sleep tonight too...
…since he was so “tight” with those guys.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 3, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This frikin sucks
How can I route for Iverson now that he’s a Pisston? Dayum!
"You’re caught up in basketball. Get caught up in life" - Starbury "The Great"
by Belize on Nov 3, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
semi OT
from Hollinger’s chat today:
Michael Beasley (Miami, FL): Why is Derrick Rose scoring more than me? Is he gonna steal my ROY award?
John Hollinger: (3:54 PM ET ) he might, he’s off to a pretty good start. It helps that Chicago is giving him the keys and letting him go, trying to space everything out so he always has room. I’ll know more after tonight, though — pretty excited to see what he can do against a good team with a dominant shot-blocker.
by NormVanBeer on Nov 3, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What?
How dare Hollinger slam Darko this way?
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 3, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hollinger clearly didn't watch Rose's nasty finishes over KG
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 3, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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