You want to trade? First, boot Nocioni.

by tyger1147 on Nov 22, 2008 3:02 PM CST

First off, let's all accept that this team isn't going to win a significant number of games (let's say... over 50) anytime soon. They team is at least 2 years away (2010-2011) from being a really, really good team and probably 4 years away from being a great team. That is, unless you think there's a Tyson Chandler-Peja Stojakovich-David West or Mehmet Okur-Andrei Kirilenko-Carlos Boozer trio on this team somewhere that would allow Derrick Rose hopefully meteoric rise happen even sooner than one would think. Not seeing any of those guys? Great, we're looking toward 2011-2012 before we're going to see this team be really, really good. (bear w/ the superlatives, you're following me, I trust you)

And I think we all know that even if we wait that long, it's not going to happen with this team. So... new players.

Okay, okay, but why Nocioni first? Why not Gordon? Or Thomas? Or Hughes? Those guys suck!!! Well, Gordon can't be traded w/o his consent. Thomas and Hughes couldn't possibly be sucking worse (in general), and no one's going to want them. If you can get a big man w/ a smaller per-year contract that doesn't go past 2010 for Hughes, do it. If you can get a similar player to Thomas w/ more upside that costs less, do it, I guess.

So, the positives to trading Nocioni:

Getting a shorter contract
His value seems to be at a fist-pumping high
He turns 29 this week so the team gets younger
Wing 3-pt shooters who don't pass, don't rebound and play horrible defense are pretty replaceable
Creating financial flexibility for the team
Creating space for Thabo and Hughes ::gag:: to play SF, relieving the "guard glut"
We all get to watch him do great and glorious things for a hopefully-contending team instead of watching him excel on the mediocrity that is the Bulls

Here are all of the trades I could find, that I think would be great deals for the Bulls:

Nocioni for Eric Snow (I know the problems here.) Cavs could Wally go after this year or use him as some sort of trade bait.
Marquis Daniels for Nocioni (although he's starting and playing okay while Dunleavy's out)
Tyronn Lue and Damon Jones for Nocioni when it's available.
Jason Collins and Calvin Booth for Nocioni.
Mike James and Ryan Bowen for Nocioni? James has an option for 2010, but it's still a $1 million less than Nocioni.
Or Butler, Wright and Ely for Nocioni.
Joe Smith and Sene for Nocioni
Bobby Jackson for Nocioni?

For what I would do with this new-found financial freedom, see here. Basically, I think a team w/ Rose-Hinrich-Gordon in back and Deng, Thomas, Noah upfront isn't that much worse than one that has Nocioni added into the mix. And if one really wants, using Hinrich or Hughes or Gordon (somehow) to get someone like Kaman doesn't hurt the team, obviously. Still, ridding Nocioni must come first because, of the guys they need to get rid of, he's the worst.

Getting rid of Nocioni isn't just a 2010 plan. It gets rid of an overpaid player (he makes more than freakin' James Posey!) with a long-term contract. There are other moves to be made, for sure. Of course, this diary is all crap, though, because Nocioni is one of Jerry's Kids, which means he ain't goin nowhere... and this team will be stuck in mediocrity for years to come.

So... trading Nocioni for expiring contracts (a.k.a. pure salary dump): Good idea or bad idea? Gonna happen? No chance in hell?

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one problem is that Nocioni perhaps isn't at his fist-pumpingly highest value

he’s actually having his worst season since his rookie year, as in the past few games his previously-flukey 3p% went back to normal.

But it’s early, and I don’t think he’s any worse than he was. I’m not sure what will happen at a higher rate: the deterioration of his skills giving him less value, or the shortening of his contract getting more value.

I’d likely take just a pure salary dump now, I just hope the Bulls don’t have to throw in something to make it worthwhile to someone.

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 22, 2008 3:42 PM CST 0 recs

Yeah... I'm talking specifically about the fist-pumping part.

As demonstrated here. As I said, okay 3-pt shooters who don’t pass, turn the ball over and play adverse defense are pretty replaceable. Nocioni’s value is ONLY in his “toughness/grittiness/try-hardness”. Maybe you can convince another GM that he’s really determined to help another team win.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 23, 2008 10:09 AM CST up 0 recs

Portland will take him ;)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

":) :( :) :'( :) :) :( :p Blazer’s fans fall upon trade proposals like locusts in the land of Egypt back in Moses times."
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by faith on Nov 22, 2008 4:50 PM CST 0 recs

lol

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 22, 2008 4:52 PM CST up 0 recs

oh that's fair haha

"He's not scared to take that shot," Rose said. "That's Larry. No matter what, I don't need to remind him to shoot. He's willing to shoot any time."

by Evil Pax on Nov 22, 2008 4:53 PM CST up 0 recs

Chicago isn't in the Lebron Sweepstakes? :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.

":) :( :) :'( :) :) :( :p Blazer’s fans fall upon trade proposals like locusts in the land of Egypt back in Moses times."
Tominhawaii Our Friendly Blogabull.com Ambassador.

by faith on Nov 22, 2008 4:58 PM CST up 0 recs

With Rose we absoluely shoud be

and if not Lebron, the Wade, Bosh, Amare, Joe Johnson, etc.

2010 is sick, wicked unprecedented, we need to be major players.

by BigWay on Nov 22, 2008 7:50 PM CST up 0 recs

tricky bastids,

but now we’re wise to your pritchslapping ways…

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Nov 22, 2008 5:09 PM CST up 1 recs

there are only two Bulls players

that show toughness on the court: Rose and Nocioni. We should keep him.

"He's not scared to take that shot," Rose said. "That's Larry. No matter what, I don't need to remind him to shoot. He's willing to shoot any time."

by Evil Pax on Nov 22, 2008 4:51 PM CST 0 recs

haha

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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 22, 2008 5:37 PM CST up 0 recs

I disagree with the premise that this team can't be really good 'til 2011-2012.

This is the NBA, where the Boston Celtics went from being the worst team in the league to champions in one off-season. Tyson Chandler wasn’t Tyson Chandler before he met Chris Paul. Peja was considered a player that was on his way down before he was paired with Paul (although he’s not playing well right now). So you can’t say that there’s nobody on this team that can become those guys, because they weren’t even those guys.

One of the reasons to be excited about how well Rose has played so far is because it means a faster rebuilding process. You can make a case that, if Pax were to make some really shrewd moves between now and the start of next season (huuuuuge if) that we can compete for an eastern conference title next year. Is it unlikely? Hell yea, but you never know. When you say things like “we’re looking forward to 2011-2012 before this team gets really competitive” that just shows that you’re not holding the franchise to a high enough standard.

by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 22, 2008 4:51 PM CST 0 recs

Even if every one of the players turns out to be an equivalent of those other guys...

…it’s still going to take time. When you say “that just shows that you’re not holding the franchise to a high enough standard” that just shows you have a inaccurate and overly optimistic view of the short-term and no real plan for the long-term. Kind of like Paxson.

Besides, trading Nocioni is one of the “shrewd moves” Paxson needs to make. You’ll lose Gordon or Gooden or both if they don’t trade Noc for an expiring contract and both of those guys are more important to the team than Nocioni.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 23, 2008 10:12 AM CST up 0 recs

::vomits::

Things could be worse.

by stupidgenius on Nov 22, 2008 6:07 PM CST 0 recs

NYK is having a closeout sale

Knicks Get Nocioni(-$352,000)

Bulls get Malik Rose(+352,000)

It doesn’t quash the 2010 Walsh plan, but does it want to have Nocioni around when he’s 31? It puts us over the luxury tax, but we have until the first week of January to waive Ruffin to get under.

Knicks are awfully small right now. Among the players that dress, Tim Thomas is the tallest at 6’10. Then it’s Malik Rose at 6’9" and then Lee and Chandler at 6’7" each. They still need height. I have to think they’re not done making moves unless they plan to actually play Eddy Curry now.

In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.

by NBA Observer on Nov 22, 2008 6:44 PM CST 0 recs