Kaman speculation roundup
Not much of a roundup, just two writers (with mustaches).
One would think with Marcus Camby and now Randolph, who is mostly an inside post player, Kaman would be expendable. It's also been widely rumored around the NBA this season the Clippers would be interested in dealing the sometimes erratic Kaman, who has $34 million and three years left on his deal after this season.
With Baron Davis always a question mark with injuries and no true shooting guard, perhaps the Clippers could be interested in a deal for Kirk Hinrich. Perhaps more likely they'd be interested in Andres Nocioni, the kind of tough player coaches desire and maybe a young big man like Noah or Thomas. Though teams with excess point guards, like Memphis, figure to get into talks with the Clippers and Warriors.
The obvious Clippers' deal seem to be with Miami, which had pursued Kaman before deciding at the last minute to pick Dwyane Wade and desperately needs a center and a team coming together to persuade Wade to stay. Perhaps Miami gives the Clippers Shawn Marion with his expiring deal as a money saver for the Clippers after acquiring Randolph's long term deal along with a draft pick and takes back someone like Ricky Davis.
The Bobcats inquired about Kaman weeks ago, and were quickly rebuffed. Don’t be surprised if the Chicago Bulls become a suitor for Kaman. The Bulls need a true low-post scorer and sufficient depth at a variety of positions to assemble a package the Clippers might consider.
My initial and sorta-thought-out impression is this: Kaman is worth acquiring, but he is not THAT worth acquiring. No need to put in too many assets.
For one: I'd insist on them taking Noc or Hinrich. The Bulls cannot take on Kaman just using Drew Gooden and prospects, as it'd kill any room under the '09 luxury tax to re-sign Ben Gordon. I suppose that room could be freed up in a later move, but that'd be dicey.
I'd also perhaps maybe sorta include Noah, but not Thomas. I think Thomas is actually more salvageable alongside Kaman than Noah would be, then there's the upside that most of you are sick of hearing about. Kaman and Noah are actually not that different in terms of effectiveness (if you remember when Noah was effective), just in how they did it. So I think that Thomas/Noah duplicate some of those skills enough where swapping one for Kaman isn't too bad of a return for 'giving up' on a young big.
My biggest worry is Kaman is that he's not that good. But at his age and production he's at the very least tradeable, even if his contract is long and scary.
previously:
Chris Kaman available.
Al Harrington to the Knicks. (UPDATE: Randolph to Clippers too?)
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I'm with you the whole way until the part about
insisting that Thomas is not involved. Maybe I would prefer that Tyrus stick around as well, but after the way his career has gone there is no way possible that he can be a dealbreaker. If the Clips really want Thomas, he’s gotta go.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 21, 2008 9:23 PM CST 0 recs
Absolutely agree
In any scenario, I keep Noah over Thomas, who has bust written all over him, the Stromile Swift comparisons were all too accurate. For Thomas’s 2010 salary we can keep both Noah and Thabo for that season.
by BigWay on
Nov 22, 2008 12:12 AM CST
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I don't see how the Bulls can hang with an offer of Marion.
Adding Marion to the Clippers and Baron Davis might really get them somewhere. And he’s got an expiring contract.
If the Heat have legit interest, I don’t see how we stand a chance. If the Clippers want savings, Memphis can give it to them and we can’t.
So generally speaking, I think it’s a good thing you’re not that into getting him. Because I can see plenty of other teams offering more.
Regarding the Bulls, I feel fairly comfortable we could unload Kirk or Noc for an expiring deal. The diceyness seems to be in the Bulls’ willingness to do so. Hell, do you think the Warriors would have preferred Crawford to Hinrich or Noc if we’d offered them?
Finally, I’d rather try Noah because even if Thomas is a somewhat better fit, Noah’s rookie deal extends to 2010. If you trade Noah and keep Thomas, you create a pretty significant financial hurdle toward getting a 2010 FA and putting a good team around him. And even if you think there’s some difference between the two of them, the difference isn’t enough to outweigh that problem.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Nov 21, 2008 9:24 PM CST 0 recs
I agree on the Heat being a better suitor
maybe they hold out for the Booz
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 21, 2008 9:32 PM CST
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Miami sounds better in theory
BUT Marion for Kaman does not work
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=5101982&teams=1214&te=&cash=
SO to match up the Clips will have to had another player. Would they be willing to add more? Let’s hope not that way the Bulls remain the front runners.
by J Theory on Nov 21, 2008 9:57 PM CST 0 recs
We are always the "front runners".
Every beat writer in the league writes about the Bulls first when there is any speculation about a trade, but do we ever do anything? No! I’m sick of being the team that is best positioned for a trade. I want to MAKE a trade and I think Kaman is a great fit. I admit that I was pissed when I saw that Randolph went to the Clips today, because I just wrote that post 4 days ago about the 3 way deal and us getting Kaman. I’m really starting to get on this “I don’t think Paxson knows what he’s doing” bandwagon.
by Unrealcity on
Nov 21, 2008 11:55 PM CST
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Camby could retire or die
at any moment, so I don’t see the Clippers moving Kaman. The Clips made agreat trade, and Kaman, Camby and Randoplph will make a nice three man rotation at the 4-5.
by BigWay on Nov 22, 2008 12:10 AM CST 0 recs
This is why any deal for Kaman is better for us because we can offer Noah
Clips may like getting back the expiring Marion, but they know Camby is closing out his career.
The Clippers are betting on older players like Davis and Camby to combine with younger players in Thorton and Randolph to do some real damage. Right now, the Clippers are terrible. Noah would be a better option for them moving forward if they plan to keep Randolph.
Noc and Noah for Kaman would get it done.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on
Nov 22, 2008 4:00 PM CST
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Kaman would immediately be the best big on our roster.
There is no one that I would not trade for him, except Rose, if Kaman is available…but at this point its only speculation…the Clips would probably be a better team with a trio of Camby, Kaman and Randolph than anything someone could offer them…
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 22, 2008 12:23 AM CST 0 recs
Way to Go
Larry Hughes! Keep playing like you did tonight, and you too could become a Clipper.
by Cannoli on Nov 22, 2008 1:01 AM CST 0 recs
Kaman would be purty nice for the Bulls
He’s a good age, had a good breakout year last season, and while suffers from normal big man injuries and is expensive, he’s a bonafide reboundin’ inside scorin’ and shot blockin’ honest to goodness center.
His age makes him more attractive to me than Brad Miller. Both are too slow to play with Rose I guess, but Kaman’s rebounding and shot blocking could key the fastbreak and when ya gotta score in the halfcourt his inside scoring and pick setting will come in handy.
He is as good of a big man as you could possibly expect, and I think it’d be dumb for the Clippers to trade him… even for Ben Gordan. He’s as good of a center as they can reasonably expect to have as well.
It might not necessarily make sense, but the Clippers are just throwing crap on the floor and seeing what sticks. The Z-Bo trade is a good example of this. Now, a Camby in his prime would be a great complement to Z-Bo’s non defense, but that ain’t now and Kaman and Z-Bo are most effective in the same space. It’ll be better than Curry and Z-Bo, but they aren’t a pair that will likely co-exist nicely.
So, perhaps Kaman really is available if the Clippers wanna stick with Z-Bo and Camby… and seeing as they just traded for the ‘Bo, maybe they like him. I can’t read what the Clippers are trying to do, though if someone has a known name and is expensive they seem to love them.
Kaman would likely cost Ben Gordon, which I could see both parties doing if the Bulls don’t think Gordon will re-sign, and if the Clippers think their biggest need is a good scoring shooting guard (which is a need for them, along with a getting a cohesive roster and players who like to win and not just pick up paychecks and stats).
One thing or so— does Gordon’s new team (if traded) have his Bird Rights to be able to re-sign him for what he wants to be paid? Does his Qualifying Offer acceptance enable him to veto a trade?
If the bridges are too burnt with the Bulls, they really should trade him for whatever they can get instead of hoping he forgives and forgets. Getting Kaman for him would maybe be as good of a get as you can get right now.
Mortimer
by Mortimer on Nov 22, 2008 2:18 AM CST 1 recs
Gordon
Gordon’s new team would not have his bird rights, so could only offer him as much money as they are under the cap (or MLE) and he can veto any trades because of this.
by Jamaicanpi on
Nov 22, 2008 8:07 AM CST
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No bird rights are not included but
I think Gordon knows he isn’t going to get a max contract from anyone anyhow. The only scenario I see where the bird rights come into play is if he believes he can get a sign in trade down with a team that does not have cap room next year. Otherwise his bird rights will be lost when he signs for another teams best off next year. In which case his bird rights would not matter anyhow.
My feeling is if he does not get traded, he will either sign with the Bulls or take someones mid level exception next year.
"If you're not going to compete, then I'll dominate you." MJ
by Rankdog on
Nov 22, 2008 12:47 PM CST
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Kaman
Kaman for Noah +
Get it done. Noah and Tyrus bring similiar skill sets. Kaman would also probably be happy coming back to the midwest. He is from Michigan.
by Jesse07 on Nov 22, 2008 8:17 AM CST 0 recs
After someone lives in the Southwest or Northwest
they are never happy returning to the Midwest. :)
by hlac on
Nov 22, 2008 1:46 PM CST
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It is always home. You may miss things from you experiences, but the Midwest is always home!
by Unrealcity on
Nov 22, 2008 10:09 PM CST
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Or at lest that is what I keep telling myself, since I moved back 3 months ago.
But I’m loving all the Bulls games on TV ever other night, rather than watching GameCast on ESPN!
by Unrealcity on
Nov 24, 2008 5:16 AM CST
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Something I haven't heard before
Kaman’s contract contains a 15 percent trade kicker, which, as of Friday, would have resulted in an extra $6.3 million in salary.
link
In other terms, he would make 49.9 million over 4 years
Break down (in millions)
2008-2009 – $10.9
2009-2010 – $12.0
2010-2011 – $13.0
2011-2012 – $14.0
by Jamaicanpi on Nov 22, 2008 9:06 AM CST 1 recs
::shudders::
Okay…didn’t know it was that bad.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
Nov 22, 2008 9:28 AM CST
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ew
nice catch
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 22, 2008 10:20 AM CST
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Ugh
Kaman’s agent is Rob Pelinka. I wonder if any of his other players have this trade kicker. I had never heard of this before.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on
Nov 22, 2008 4:17 PM CST
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yeah, some do.
I can’t name any off the top of my head :-/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 22, 2008 5:39 PM CST
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The Clippers
Can I point out that the Clippers are really good on the trade machine
Clippers
Out
Cuttino Mobley
Tim Thomas
2nd round pick
in
Zach Randolph
Marcus Camby
by Jamaicanpi on Nov 22, 2008 9:14 AM CST 0 recs
Gotta love how the Clips can put together some fine paper lineups
They actually have a pretty intimidating frontcourt rotation coupled B Diddy, yet it will fail.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 1:20 PM CST 0 recs
well, Davis isn't playing well
which is a problem.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Nov 22, 2008 1:25 PM CST
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moved fanshot from dannyp07
(just figured this fit in with this speculation thread)
It would make sense, it seems, only if they could turn around and flip Kaman for a shooting guard and balance out the roster. Although the Clippers’ initial stance appears to be that this is a one-off move and they’re going to try to make it work with the crowd up front, I have to think they’d seriously consider moving Kaman if the losing continues. In that event, Camby and Randolph would make a good partnership: Randolph can work the post while Camby plays out high, and Camby can make up for Randolph’s defensive shortcomings.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 22, 2008 1:26 PM CST 0 recs
I know a shooting guard
that is tall and shot well against the Warriors last night…
by kig on
Nov 22, 2008 1:40 PM CST
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Maybe we should start talking about how "untouchable" Hughes is.
If teams try it all the time, why not the fans and blogdom. Instead of playing a player to showcase his worth, we can just talk up Hughes and his “amazing abilities” and see if anyone bites. It worked for both Golden State and New York (i.e. Harrington and Randolph).
Look, the Clippers can have Gordon, Sef, or even Deng to play at SG, but they can’t have Larry. He is finally coming back to his Washington form. Did you see the 20+ points he put up again last night?!? He just needs playing time and the right offense. Besides, Larry Hughes would be a perfect fit in LA for the Clippers and I just couldn’t bear to see him leave the Bulls and excel in LA. I mean, they would have a BIG back court with BD and LH. They could lock people down on defense due to their “size”. And if they ever got through to the rim, there would be defensive player of the year Marcus Camby waiting for them. They would instantly be in the playoff picture again and once everyone got comfortable with each other, they would be contenders that nobody saw coming! Look, I’d give up anybody right now on the team, but not Larry Hughes!
by Unrealcity on
Nov 22, 2008 10:20 PM CST
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Whoa.
Wait, why do people wanna give this guy up so badly?!
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
by BigBenign on
Nov 23, 2008 12:23 AM CST
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Didn't you read my post.
I don’t want to give him up. HE"S AWESOME!
by Unrealcity on
Nov 23, 2008 2:31 AM CST
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Everyone, get grounded.
The Bulls don’t make good trades (one exception: the Deng trade, which, actually is NOT working out.)
This is how the Bulls make trades:
1) The Bulls acquire a player.
2) The player doesn’t work out, or doesn’t fit into this system, or that system.
3) The Bulls trade away that player.
4) The Bulls now have hopes that the newly acquired player(s) work out. Step 4 becomes Step 1.
by chicago-homesick-blues on Nov 22, 2008 2:15 PM CST 0 recs
At some point Pax will realize his drafts have not lived up to what he expected
He’s hit a homerun with Rose, and made solid picks with Kirk, BG, and Deng. Noah and Tyrus haven’t put it together. This team, even with Rose is still quite average. If Rose was a huge project that would take 3 years to develop, I’d say keep this core intact and ride it out. However, he’s shown remarkable growth that seems to warrant a better team around him. Give the man his scoring option in the post. He’s running ragged carrying a team as a freaking 20 year old.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 2:38 PM CST 0 recs
I would like ro see Noce for Camby
since his deal expires after next year which would make us players in 2010. He would also be able to provide a veteran pressence for our frontline. I think getting Kaman makes us better but I would not give up too much to aquire him.
Homecoming
by illwill on Nov 22, 2008 3:52 PM CST 0 recs












