Another rearrangement of deck chairs trade (Bulls/Kings/Hornets)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:35 PM CST
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PrintHere's one I kicked around in the old noodle this morning:
My initial premise is this:
- The Bulls need frontcourt help
- Trading Thomas and Noah now isn't really smart. They have little value so why give up now?
- Noc/Hinrich should be dealt with payroll flexibility in mind
- I believe there is some merit in making a trade just for the sake of it.
- 3 way trades are fun
Bulls (receive Brad Miller, Rasual Butler): Brad Miller is my White Whale (literally, even). I think the Bulls frontcourt needs two things, beyond general competence: girth, and shooting ability. Miller brings both. You can play Brad Miller in the high post, he'll set screens and be able to play pick/pop, not only a good shooter but a great passer. Actually a smart player, unlike Drew Gooden. On defense he can take the largest of centers, and is a bit of a redass. Bulls also get out from under the Nocioni deal, both Miller and Butler expire in 2010.
Kings (receive Drew Gooden, Mike James): Dealing Miller frees up room for Hawes and Thompson, yet they still have a vet coming back. Gooden and James are both expiring contracts.
Hornets (receive Andres Nocioni, Quincy Douby): As always (thanks Pax), the toughest part in any deal is getting a team to take Nocioni's contract. I think the Hornets are a good candidate: they need bench help, and they're not gaming for 2010 (they have their starters all locked up through then). Getting Butler off their payroll helps slightly, at least for 2009. Douby's fallen out of favor with the Kings, so I threw him in as some help for Paul (right now James isn't playing and Devin Brown is getting most of the backup PG mintues)
One question I have is the Kings true desire to deal Miller. Sort of like the Bulls and Hinrich, is salary relief enough? They may want at least a prospect or a draft pick, though without one this deal would actually put them under the cap for this offseason, which may be worth it in itself. If I were the Bulls, I'd consider throwing in a protected 1st (or Thabo), with the luxury tax the Bulls may not even want it anyway.
Another concern is that the Hornets have this expiring contract in James as their only chip. Nocioni helps, but how much? They have Posey as the SF/PF backup. What they really could use is a reserve big man, but Noc can grit his way into fooling people he is one.
I didn't run the exact tax numbers but it looks negligible all around.
Bulls:
Rose/Hunter
Gordon/Hughes
Deng/Butler
Thomas/Noah
Miller
Then in February there are still a lot of options, dealing Hughes for hot garbage, a Hinrich trade, giving up on Thomas and Noah, etc. I'm not saying Miller is the answer to Rose's frontcourt mate of the future, but neither is Chris Kaman, and at least Miller allows some trade/cap flexibility considering the length of his deal.
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Gooden is not the problem, no matter how many times its said here.
Gooden is the one guy we’ve got up front who’s, for the most part, played like a real live NBA player.
The problem isn’t that he’s awful, it’s that he’s the only guy doing it. Even if Miller is marginally better or a marginally better fit, it does very little for us.
What we need is to have two real live NBA players, at least, in our front court.
Also, this deal, in the absence of anything else, would seem to add several million to our cap next year and insure we hit the LT if we re-sign Gordon.
De gustibus non est disputandum
yeah I just thought of the '09 lux tax
punting Noah helps, but isn’t enough.
Gooden is not the problem, but he’s still not especially good (especially on defense) and he actually has value. I think it’s a big upgrade from Gooden to Miller.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
argh
*punting Noc helps
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
it's too bad that punting noc
right now actually makes us worse
in the sense that we lose our only other 3-point threat outside BG and also the scary proposition that hughes might start at SF more often. fuck.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
um, Luol Deng?
and if Hughes is already starting ahead of Noc, then what can you do.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Whether you like it or not, Noc has been one of our best players this year
And of course we’d start Deng, I was just thinking Hughes while Deng is out. Which is still awful.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
um, I don't like it
because that doesn’t make Noc better, just the team relatively worse.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
But taking a guy off the team who is better than most of the other guys on the team
only makes the team worse. Whether they’re good or bad. It’s logic.
We’d probably have a win or two less without Noc this year. At least that’s my guess.
I was all for trading him before the season, but right now it appears he’s worth keeping around given his performance which has improved due to playing off of Derrick.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I hope you're right
in the sense that someone is tricked into thinking Noc is a better player now. He’s making $8m this season and it’s enough that he hits a few threes?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
Noc might be a useful piece to keep arond as he’s developed chemistry with Rose and can reliably shoot from distance . . . but not at $8M for the next half decade.
We’re not winning championships this year, so giving up a couple wins because of Noc’s shooting isn’t really a big deal anyway, and his contract and age means he’s only going to hamstring future chances of getting better. We need to deal him sooner rather than later.
I'd love to make this argument Matt
New Orleans is on the hook for 77 million next season, and adding Noc will only increase that bill.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
But not by too much
So I guess they’ll be on the hook either way for most of that money. They probably were hoping that BRI would go up, but I heavily doubt that at this point.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
and I agree that they need 2 real live frontcourt players
it’s still in the Bulls best interest to hope Noah and Tyrus pan out. Unless we can go back in time and re-do some drafts. It’s hard to find good young big men.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
From the other thread...
… you might be getting somewhere if you replace an expensive guy like Miller with a cheaper guy like Pryzbilla.
If we could swing something like Kirk+Noc for Raef+Pryzbilla, then we can probably re-sign Gordon this summer and still open up cap space in 2010.
We might even be able to extend Gooden’s contract for one more season, which I wouldn’t be opposed to, because if we go into 2009/2010 with a Przybilla, Noah starting frontcourt and Tyrus coming off the bench behind them, I suggest we commit mass suicide before the season starts.
De gustibus non est disputandum
We would go into 2010 in that scenario
with
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Noah
Przybilla
and our two picks. Tyrus is the RFA we can re-sign if he crawls out of the mental hole he’s in.
That’s not so bad. It looks pretty offensively starved up front
De gustibus non est disputandum
I don't think the Blazers deal Przybilla
and kill their capspace in one fell swoop.
and Gooden’s not accepting a one-year contract.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Hope Michael Ruffin's ankle heals??
Could take on a Thunder big man. gag. I dunno.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Not the total answer, but Collison is decent.
Certainly better than Battie, Zaza and Kurt Thomas (old, slow).
Collison posted a +2 two years ago and a +3 last year in adjusted plus-minus
and he’s traditionally hovered right around 15 in terms of PER. The guy can play.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2008 1:14 AM CST up reply actions
They force him to play center and he's done well
but he’s a more natural 4. He’s only 6’8".
by fundamentallysound on Nov 22, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Gooden is not the problem but our Bimbo Vinnie is
If Gooden started at power forward and only played power forward I could live with him playing out his contract this year. Although even at that he is just wasting minutes that we could use to evaluate Thomas more completely before realizing that he is a bust and dumping him. The problem with keeping Gooden around is that Vinnie can’t help himself from playing Gooden at center, where he is a disaster especially on defense.
Until we get a better option, Noah and Gray should play all the minutes at center. We still need to find out about both of them too. I still believe that if Noah got his minutes, at least 30 to 36 per night, he would eventually get his act toghether and average a double double(although barely).
Miller might be worth the money for this year and next, but I’m not convince that Nocioni is worth only a salary dump, Hinrich either for that matter, who has been mentioned in Miller trades straight up.
Why would we want Gooden & James?
James might be useful to us since we’re a wee bit short at SG/SF right now but the Kings have no intention of giving up Miller (don’t believe the Haters) until next year and only if they get some real return.
If you think we’re out to just ‘shed’ B52s contract, you’re mistaken.
Now Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas or Sheldon Williams? We can talk about something there. Seriously.
Hey Mikki might really be a useful stopgap, he’s a GREAT team guy and he has a 2 mil buyout next year if you find something better. Sheldon is a tank with all the attributes that come with that, slow, immovable – but a good rebounder and decent paintD guy better suited in the East. Kenny has no game left.
Power forwards, we got (finally!), we need a spot-up shooter willing to come off the bench.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 2:45 AM CST up reply actions
Brad runs the half court
offense like no big man around.
He certainly has some flaws though, he can’t pound in there with DHoward – though he’ll try.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 2:47 AM CST up reply actions
Spot up shooter willing to come off the bench? You seek Andres Nocioni.
And you an have him for Moore and Williams. Offer accepted. Thank you, come again.
De gustibus non est disputandum
After yesterday
I agree….let’s get Brad Miller….let’s do any trade just to break up the Gooden-Hughes-Tyrus Thomas-Joakim Noah groupings, two of them must go, and at this point any two (with the Cleveland crap preferrable of course but less likely to be traded).
All I'm going to point out is that the Kings are just as awful with Miller as we are with Gooden
De gustibus non est disputandum
What would the Kings want for Miller?
They’d want to get rid of salary, which we can’t give them without going into the LT now or kissing Gordon (or a replacement) goodbye.
The only way I can figure around this is to give them a deal that’s so good they can’t say no. But I don’t see how we do that either.
I mean, I’m sure they’d do something like Hinrich + Noah for Miller, but that’s probably more than I’d give up. Hinrich + Thomas for Miller… maybe. I’m pretty down on Tyrus.
De gustibus non est disputandum
No Hinrich
unless Beno goes the other way. Even then, Petrie won’t do it while he’s damaged goods. Noah might be a serviceable ‘energy’ back-up that could be interesting, but face it, the guy will never score much.
There were a LOT of good young athletic bigs last year in the draft, you should have gotten a late 1 and grabbed one of them…..
Next year doesn’t look as good in that area.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 2:52 AM CST up reply actions
we did in the 2nd
omer asik…but he is injured and playing in a different continent…probably for the next few years(anyone have an update on him?).
by Sambossanova on Nov 21, 2008 4:53 AM CST up reply actions
I'd be willing to consider any trade
that helps the front court out.
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM CST reply actions
i don't know why the hornets do this though
if they hadn’t picked up posey, i’d see this more likely.
agreed.
Hornets are 5-5, so maybe they just feel like they need help. Their bench is very thin. Plus think of all those nice things you heard about Noc and tell it to an influential Hornets person.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
ruh roh
Hornets fans are worried about their defense, especially shoddy from the perimeter.
(um, but Noc will foul you if your team needs a spark and you’re down fourteen!)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Why would NO want
Noce (and since when did he drop the “e” from his nickname?) for $7M per year for the next 3 years when they already have Peja for almost $14M in 2009 and $14M (option) in 2010? Is it the hair?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Nov 20, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
transfer to them whatever reasons he's in Chicago
when Luol Deng is signed for $12m
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
So just
call Noce (I’m sticking to the original moniker) a ‘slasher/dribble-driver/energy guy’?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on Nov 20, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Noc > Noce
There has never been and there never will be an ‘e’ in his name.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
oh Noc u dih-int!
Thabo Sefolosha: His last name sounds like a disease, and his ballgame IS one.
by chibullsfan03 on Nov 20, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
i admit
i consistently type both versions because i never know which one is the real one…but then i always ask myself…“why do I even care?”
by NormVanBeer on Nov 20, 2008 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Good question.
I find myself asking, “why is it Noce if he has no ‘E’ in his name and if it is pronounced "No-ch”? But you’re right. I spend way too much time wondering about things that don’t matter when it comes to the Bulls.
Nocioni would be valuable to a contending team
like the Hornets, and right now they appear to need some help, and their bench was a problem even last season.
Brinng back brad?
I like Brad, but your getting nothing really for Noc. Not bad idea tho
"You’re caught up in basketball. Get caught up in life" - Starbury's Head Tattoo
why?
what’s the point of doing it now?
They have a chance to be good. It’s dwindling, but why let it play out on some other team? I really don’t think they’re losing value between now and the end of the season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
yea like it was said
we’re still waitng for the chance that luol will be good.. and its been about 2 years. we’re still waiting for gordon to better on D or ballhandiling. we’re still waiting for kirk(when hes not injured) to be what he was before. We cant be holding on to these guys for too long, thats wat got Pax into the mess he is now. if we can deal noah or tyrus for someone like kaman, id do it in a heartbeat.
It aint easy bein' Piatkowski
Gordon is better on D
and Deng already is good.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 21, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
"Need" I think is too strongly put.
Like Matt says, there’s still potential there, and it’s in the Bulls’ best interest that, if they turn into good players, they do it on the Bulls.
That being said, the whole “chance” thing Matt is why we shouldn’t cling to them too tightly. When there’s no chance left, their value is solidified. It’ll either be good or bad, but who’s going to want them if they’re slightly productive big men with irreprably limited skill sets? The only way we get value back is if there’s a chance they’ll be good; why else would someone want them? This year could go a long way in giving Tyrus a Stromile Swift-like reputation.
I’m not saying fire sale, but if we can get something back that we know helps the team, that might be better than the “chance” that Tyrus (or Noah) ends up helping the team.
there's only so long
that we can keep clinging to the “potential” tags. Better to deal sooner than later.
I'm all aboard the get Brad Biller train
the guy is an adjusted plus-minus monster and a great pick and pop player which is something Rose needs in the frontcourt very very badly. I’m more in favor of a more straight forward trade with the Kings. Give them something like this.
Bulls trade:
Hinrich and Gooden and Cedric Simmons (or your preferred filler)
and Sacramento trades:
Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas
It adds about a million in salary, but both those contracts expire in 2010 and this would be the first of several trades for me if I’m running the show.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 20, 2008 4:22 PM CST reply actions
Add Thabo in there and it still works
At this point, if VDN’s going to play Hughes ahead of him even at SF, what’s the point of having him around?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Thabo has actually played pretty well thus far this year when he's gotten minutes
despite what it looks like by the eye test. His PER is up 4.4 points over last year, he’s reduced his turnover rate, and managed to raise his FG% despite abysmal shooting thus far from deep. He’s been a pretty consistent 33% 3 point shooter for his career in the past two years, but so far this year he’s shooting threes at 9% (!) and still managed to boost his overall FG, eFG, and TS%. I might do a little fanpost to delve into these issues further. Maybe our mythical big two guard is finally rounding into form.
by fundamentallysound on Nov 21, 2008 2:00 AM CST up reply actions
Haven't seen Thabo play this year yet,
I’ve only seen him this off-season in Switzerland and he has worked on changing his form on 3-pointers, with more arc. There probably will be a big adjustment period for this, since he had been shooting very flatly for years (forever really).
The Game chose him !
Put
Thabo also is playing quite a bit in garbage time against garbage time players and that helps his stats……
He has not dramatically improved and that’s why he’s nipping out of the rotation.
Still, I’d much rather see THabo out there than Hughes, especially if Deng’s hurt and VDN wants Nocioni’s energy off the bench.
Left Field
Remember this game?
Looking back..imagine if we had artest next to rose
"You’re caught up in basketball. Get caught up in life" - Starbury's Head Tattoo
I emailed my Kings and Hornets brother-bloggers
they both gave a thumbs down, mostly for the reasons I speculated above. :-/
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:32 PM CST reply actions
Yes, No deal
you’ve got to give us something we want. B52 has his haters, but he’s great in the halfcourt set, he makes other players better and does a bunch of little things you have to watch closely to recognize.
We would need a back-up center and a spot-up shooter at the 2/3 (we have too many guys who create off the dribble, need another ‘catch and shoot’ guy) and thier contracts would have to make sense of course.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:02 AM CST up reply actions
Why not this trade
as well? Besides Rose and Gordon, there’s no one worth trading for (for the other team). And Gordon is a UFA next summer, so why not wait? Maybe Hinrich/Noc might be in a trade, but not for a while. The only type of trades that are around for the Bulls (I assume) are the trades that don’t make them any better.
I take solace in the fact that Gooden’s contract is done this year, and Hughes the next. If I were speaking to Paxson face to face, I would ask him to wait it out and rebuild in summer 2011. Who knows, maybe the Bulls can get Bosh.
then buy out Hughes.
I am completely unwilling to wait. I’m not watching mismatched crap for the next 2 seasons while I prepare for a trip to O’Hare with Benny the Bull in 2010
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
See that's the thing
I’d hate for the Bulls to put all their eggs in the 2010 basket, then have the whole thing blow in the Bulls face. In fact, if they were willing to take on some larger contracts and forgo the 2010 FA lottery, they can come out of this with some pretty good players.
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 20, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
At this point, I don't think it's possible to come out empty handed.
EVERYONE is basically a FA that year, not just Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Amare. There are also somewhere between 10-15 teams under the cap. It’s going to be one giant meat market. Even if you don’t get a top prize, there will be a complete restructuring of teams around the league. So if you can’t make yourself noticeably better via trades in the next 2 years, it’s better to build via the ground up with free agency in 2010.
Deal Nocioni for an expiring this year.
re-sign Gordon for a contract that will be about $11 in 2010-2011 (6years/$75 million). Renounce Thomas. The Bulls will have about $45 million (I think) which would just about put them in the market for a max player. If the salary cap gets up $63 million (it probably would in normal economic times), the Bulls could offer a max contract.
Rose—Hinrich
Gordon
Deng—2009 first rounder
Bosh—2010 first rounder
Noah—Asik—Gray
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Nov 21, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I view this as Plan A
I just get the feeling there’s someone on every team’s blog site posting a similar scenario right now.
Sure there is.
Which is why I think the Bulls have a two-up—-they already have a big market and a probable superstar. Add in that the team might win 45-50 games next year, that’s three-up. That they might have a tradeable assets (to do a sign-and-trade getting the FA an extra $30 million) is another bonus. That the team would be very young and this player would be the one to put them “over-the-hump”, another boost.
I know, in the whole thing, it’s probably “unlikely”. However, I think the fact that it’s possible and that the Bulls can still be competitive in the meantime, is very exciting.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
I don't understand why Pax and his doofus buddy JR are so reluctant
to pull a Tim Thomas. Especially when Pax is all about ‘character.’ Clearly, Larry Hughes is a team player!!!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Thomas had just the rest of the one season under contract
Hughes has this season and next season. Buying him out is in the “Steve Francis, Michael Finley, and Brian Grant” zone. It’s multiple seasons you’d have to pay him.
We could negotiate paying 80 cents on the dollar just to get Hughes out of here so he can play elsewhere, but he can just pout and get paid dollar for dollar until the end of the 09-10 season.
I can’t believe he’s complaining about PT. He gives away so much. Vinny thinks he’s athletic, yet Hughes can’t even dunk to finish a fast break. He’s lost all of his athleticism.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
So unwilling to wait = buying out Hughes' contract?
What the hell would that do, make the Bulls less shitty? They’re still in the same situation, sans a backup guard.
New idea
Bug Pax with so many trades that eventually he does something to get frontcourt help/ salary cap relief.
My hit list: Larry, Thabo, Lindsay, Demetris, Cedric, Aaron, Paxson, Reinsdorf, Del Negro, and Schanwald. We're left with Rose, Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Noce, Gooden, Tyrus, Noah, Harris, and Bickerstaff. Harris takes coach and Bickerstaff takes GM. Who needs an owner? Pay for it with the money that the Blog A Bull community will spend on tickets to see a good team!
Correction: Matt takes GM, and Bickerstaff stays Head Assistant Coach.
Miller would help enormously;
and it keeps the dream (i.e. 2010) alive. Whether it’s feasible depends, in part, on how the Hornets fare. If they continue playing average ball, this makes sense for them – Nocioni is pretty much a shot in the arm (or kidneys) for any team. He also gives them range, something that they need with Paul. For the same reason Noc has worked well with Rose, he would work with CP3.
I think this may undervalue Miller a little bit, however. He’s a center averaging 12, 9, and 5 with a 2010 deal. To my way of thinking he’s worth more than salary cap space. Now if the Hornets could be persuaded to throw in Julian Wright…or if the Bulls threw in Thabo…or if a draft picks was involved…you get the drill.
And what the hell is Sactown doing with Udrih? He’s awful.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Points
1) The last thing NO needs is another ‘shooter’, they have tons, thats why CP3 gets so many assists, all they have is ‘catch and shoot’ guys + one dunker. They need someone who can drive to the hole.
2) Yes, you are underrating B52s value, he’s another PG in the halfcourt set (better than a lot of them)
3) Julian Wright is interesting
4) We would need a back-up Center and a decent potential or inexpensive vet that IS a ‘catch and shoot’ guy off the dribble we got) that is a 2/3.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:10 AM CST up reply actions
Well, Noc is a catch and shoot guy, not a 2/3 though, more a 3/4
The Game chose him !
Hmmm
You don’t like Mikki or Sheldon Williams… huh.
I think we plan on keeping Brad through this season unless its a real return, salary dumping is not an issue for him I think – and Hawesome is doing fine with 25 min or so off the bench. Double double most nights – but still fouling a little too much, tries to block every shot (which is sure fun!). He’s only 20, I think they want him to drink Brad for the rest of this season anyway.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:25 AM CST up reply actions
No, I don't really like (as a player, because otherwise I don't know them personally)
Mikki Moore or Sheldon Williams (though I quite like his fiancée).
The Game chose him !
Mikki would be a good filler for now
He plays hard, is a GREAT team guy who lights up the locker room, not great at anything, its all effort as is hands just aren’t that good.
He does have a 2 mil buyout for next season though, otherwise 6 mil I think.
anyway
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:51 AM CST up reply actions
I thought you were a Sac fan !
My bad.
The Game chose him !
In reference to number 1,
I don’t think I made myself clear. Being a great shooter should be requisite playing next to Paul (or Rose, for that matter) – you’re absolutely right in that they’re loaded with shooters – so Nocioni’s shooting ability doesn’t so much “fill a need” as it jives with what they do. And Noc is actually pretty good at getting the ball on a kick out, unbalancing his man with a shot fake, and driving to the hole. Draws a lot of fouls and pumps a lot of fists. He also rebounds pretty well – something that’s deficent with players like Peja and Mo Pete around.
He’d work with New Orleans. It’s Sac-Town that needs to be getting more, IMO.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Trading Tyrus and Noah is smart because
they aren’t very good players, and in my opinion will never be. Package them while other GMs still have the hope of one of them turning out to be something “OK”. The only way they turn out any decent or useful is if each of them realize that they need to fill one role on a team. Something like rebounding, intense defense, or easy dunks/tip ins. They both are putrid at being anything other than a specific role player (especially not a focal point of offensive sets).
I’ve never understood the love that these two players had been getting (and still slightly get) from some on blogabull.com. What was everyone watching when they were in college? These players don’t have true basketball skills that you see in every star of the league. Yes, Tyrus can jump out of the gym and make nasty blocks occassionally! Whoopie! He is a HORRIBLE basketball player. I’m tired of hearing about these two players athleticism and “energy”. I never look at that type of stuff when I’m trying to determine who a team should draft or if a player is good or going to be good. I always look at pure basketball skills/attributes and smarts/mentality.
Just over 2 decades ago
the Bulls had a player about TT’s age who showed exceptional athletic talent, but was otherwise very raw and did not contribute that much to the team. The previous year the Pistons had a similar player of the same age. Names were Scottie and Dennis.
Not to say that either TT or Noah will have a HOF worthy career (yes, Rodman deserves that honor), but it is way too early to give up on either player.
by Granny Waiters on Nov 21, 2008 2:39 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
Tyrus against the Lakers made several plays nobody in the entire league can make. I’m sorry, I hate having him on my team because he mostly stinks, but seeing plays like those remind me of what he can be.
I think Noah’s infinitely the safter to trade one, he’ll be productive in his career at some point and is a safer guy for the other team’s to take a chance on.
Tyrus still might end up being a bust, but he has all the skills, just doesn’t know how to put them together and seems to be a head case.
Noah needs inside help?
You are in trouble.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:12 AM CST up reply actions
I would go the Miller trade for sure
would be great to have a real big in the middle, and he has skills aswell! what the??
Though realistically, we have been talking the same stuff for so long, it really doesnt look like Mr Px is going to do anything at all ! Maybe he ‘works’ from home but doesnt have a phone?
Nah, I feel bad for that. It would be hard to try to get someone to take our bad contracts. But really, how long can this awkward roster stand pat before a risk is made? we have way too many guards and zero skill in our bigs, the equasion isnt that hard to figure out!
by rquinsee on Nov 20, 2008 6:54 PM CST reply actions
In order to due the summer of 2010 in a BigWay
Hinrich and Nocioni have to go with no long term contracts coming back. Gordon probably can’t be signed, or if he is then Thomas, Noah, and Thabo have to go. IN the summer of 2010 Rose and Deng will be making $17 million. If we want to go after 2 of the big 4, either Lebron or Wade, and either Bosh and Amare, then we can’t have anyone else on the payroll. Thomas would be owed $6 million plus, Noah and Thabo would be just under $7 million, and Gordon would be at $10 million plus if he gets what he wants.
One way to keep a few extra players would be to sign and trade for Lebron assuming he wants to come to the Bulls and send Deng to Cleveland, assuming that they would want him. Actually, we would need a second contract at about $10 million per to add to the Deng contract,(Hinrich or Gordon) This would allow us to sign 2 of the big 4 and still keep an additional $20 million in players.
This trade starts us down the path of dumping our 2010 contracts, and gives us somewhat of a short term upgrade at center.
Why Not
sign them all? Then we have a lineup of Rose, Wade, Lebron, Bosh and Amare. Bring back Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, too, just to strengthen the bench. And we can get Claire Bee to coach. Who cares about the luxury tax? Who cares about reality? Or maybe we can get DRose, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Craklin’ Rose and Gypsy Rose Lee. I’m here all week, folks, and remember to tip the waitresses and bartenders. Bada-bing.
Pax will find the Fountain of Youth
so we can have MJ and Dr. J on the wing and Kareem and The Mailman up front to complement Rose. Bench could be Stockton, Drexler, Pippen, Rodman and Hakeem. ;)
by Granny Waiters on Nov 21, 2008 2:48 AM CST up reply actions
From Sacramento
I like this deal. Miller is still pretty vital here as the young players develop, so it may take a pick to get the deal done. It could be protected, and could even be for 2010 since the Kings already have their pick and Houston’s (maybe even a swap of the Bulls/Rockets picks, top 10 protected).
The guys that would really benefit would be Thomas and Noah, who would be the benefactor’s of Miller’s high post passing. Miller is worth easy bucket to Mikki Moore – imagine what he could do for Tyrus and Joakim. Deng would also be a winner here, as Miller is worth 3-4 points a game to Kevin Martin via back door cuts.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I like Miller
for his contract and we desperatly need a bigman (7 footer) who can at least shoot.
Homecoming
as a kings fan,
Id only do that deal with the protected first rounder you mentioned. Hawes and Thompson will both benefit from the presence of Miller and since Kenny Thomas will still be on the books next year there is little reason to dump Miller’s salary for nothing in return.
by passionforPERPS on Nov 20, 2008 8:36 PM CST reply actions
What are we talking about? Deng now?
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 21, 2008 3:15 AM CST up reply actions
I think that's doable;
either a protected first rounder from us or J. Wright from New Orleans might makes this a better trade.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
Trades, dreams, and wistful thinking
Remember From the window to Luol’s post from a few days ago? “Anatomy of a contender: a look at adjusted +/-”
Outside of Rose, the Bull’s players aren’t that good. Let these players go, try and get draft choices, clear cap space. START OVER
I'm sort of starting to agree.
The most depressing part of that Blazers game was that you couldn’t pin the blame on any one player/position. (Sure, the frontcourt was TERRIBLE, but the backcourt was hardly any better.) It was a completely collective suckfest.
not interested.
they can do all that, while still trying to be a good basketball team in the meantime. Starting over is not fun.
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 21, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You must not have clicked those links.
Deng was a #22 in the last plus-mins. Top-10 and Top-25. If Rose becomes the uninjured Baron Davis or the Jason Kidd on steroids some project, he’s definitely Top-10.
The Bulls need a player better than Deng, surely, but not someone drastically better.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
Matt
My biggest issue is trading Brad Miller. He isn’t aces, and there’s plenty of ostensible evidence that says he isn’t ready to leave the Kings even with Spencer Hawes performance. My other great question, and no surprise knowing how much your love for Noc exists, is that would the Hornets do that trade.
I don’t know, it seems reasonable, but I question whether Geoff Petrie is willing to give up Brad Miller yet giving that the Kings are still trying to get Spencer to play low more among other things.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
And for whatever's it's worth
The Kings saving money would be one aspect of this trade that would work, besides opening up the time for Hawes & Thompson full time. (It would also mean keeping Mikki Moore, but I’m good with that if Brad is gone.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
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