I had to do it (Bulls / Blazer Trade proposal).

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 3:00 AM CST Comment 48 comments

[Note by illwill, 11/20/08 12:21 AM PST ]

This is Websters scouting report from ESPN

Scouting report: Webster is 6-foot-7 with an NBA body and a sweet jump shot, making him a prototypical pro small forward. He's trying to build on that by becoming an ace wing defender as well, and his body gives him a chance because he can easily repel post-ups by opposing wings. However, his lateral movement is more "decent" than "exceptional" and he's not an overwhelming athlete, so this role stretches his skills to their limit.

Offensively, he's not a good ball handler or an explosive player around the basket, so he depends on jumpers for most of his points. Last season only 26.5 percent of his shot attempts came in the basket area -- among players 6-foot-7 or taller, only Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Sasha Vujacic, Peja Stojakovic and Kyle Korver shot from close range less frequently. With his stroke, Webster should also be a better foul shooter -- he only made 73.5 percent last year.

Here is the trade link http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1981~3414~682~2795&teams=22~22~4~4&te=&cash=

The Blazers need a veteran PG and Hinrich would fit well into their system. Asik is just deal sweatner since the Blazer like their young talent. We would get Webtser who could give us a young wing player who has a junp shot and is emerging as a good defender. The Blazers already have Roy and Fernandez manning the SG spot so that leaves Webster as the odd man out.

Outlaw and Batum play the 3 so he's pretty much screwed their too. Not to mention the Blazers spent a first round pick on Bayless which means even less time for Webster @ the 2 spot. He is not a great slasher, but Rose needs to be surrounded by shooters and by someone who can guard a big 2 guard without giving up the size that BG does.

Przybilla gives us a true center who can defend the paint which we desperately need. Oden is back and if he stays healty having Przybilla is a luxary because they both have no O and only can play D and rebound. I know people are going to say they want to trade Kirk for a superstar, but the reality is that he is not a superstar.

We need to build this team around Rose and become competitive enough to compete for Bosh in 2010. The only other hope is to draft Griffin from OKL or hope A. Stat or Wade demands a trade by All-Star break, which probally will not happen. Besides wouldn't a line-up of Rose / Webster / Deng / Bosh / Przybilla sound good? with Gordon / Noce / Noah / coming off the bench. Think about it

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No way we include Asik to begin with.

Have you seen the scouting report on this guy. Why do you think Pax went out of his way to get him, to get Martell Webster adn Joel Pryzbilla? No. And Hinrich is better than both these players. We don’t need another 3. Plus, Greg Oden has proven that he is not reliable consistently to stay on the court, so the Trailblazers need injury insurance in Pryzybilla, Also, I don’t see a championship for a team with Przy as your starting Center.

by Unrealcity on Nov 20, 2008 3:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agree totally with

your last two lines. I think it makes decent sense for both teams — just not enough for either to want to pull the trigger. Two decent rotation guys for a second-tier point guard is an OKAY deal for the Bulls. If we had anybody that could step in behind Oden other than Pryz, I’d say it’s a substantially better deal for the Blazers than the Bulls. But like you said, Oden hasn’t demonstrated that he can stay healthy, and until and unless that happens, Pryz isn’t going anywhere unless it’s a deal-breaker in a huge trade.

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 20, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Add that Hinrich's only 2nd string because Rose is so good

Also, consider that while Pryz isn’t much for O, with Rose’s penetration and passing, you could easily slot him for 5 dunks a game. He’s better than that Thomas dude in any case.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 20, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we haven't seen Asik, but I have to agree with you

We can’t give him away sight unseen. With our need for help in the post the reports on him sound promising. If he joins in 2010, it would be like an extra free agent.

by BigWay on Nov 20, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You'll probably get a lot of Blazers fans commenting

The Blazers might be on the short list for Hinrich, but like Unrealcity said, I don’t think they’re ready to part with Pryzbilla. If Oden can play the rest of the season, then maybe a trade like this could happen this summer.

by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 7:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

No thanks

Coming from a Blazer fan, there’s no way we’d do that deal. A lot of fans outside of Portland don’t seem to appreciate the value the Blazers assign to Pryzbilla in particular. He’s a fantastic defender and rebounder who plays with a lot of passion on a team that can be a little stoic at times.

Perhaps more important, his presence on the team allows the Blazers a lot of luxury in how they handle Oden now and in the years to come. Not just in bringing him in slowly, but on nights where he gets into foul trouble early Pryzbilla can easily hold down the fort for extended minutes without the team sweating it. His contract is sort of high, but is not ridiculous for a quality center and money probably wouldn’t be a factor anyway. He’s certainly a competitor and won’t celebrate coming off the bench, but he’s happy in Portland and a good presence in the locker room and community. I really don’t think Pryzbilla is going anywhere in the next few years regardless of how well Oden plays.

The Blazers love him. Blazer fans love him. We know how hard it is to get a quality center and we’re greedy enough to want to keep two. It would take a pretty sweet deal to pry Pryzbilla from Pritchard and McMillian’s paws; one with Hinrich as the center piece isn’t it.

As for Webster, the Blazers certainly do have a logjam. We have too many young guys at the 1-2-3 positions who need minutes. I think what KP and Nate really want is to some day have a 3-player rotation at the 2 guard positions, and are waiting to see if either Sergio or Bayless can become that 3rd guy before making any big moves (Roy and Rudy being the other two) that would have to involve their forwards.

by matthewcc on Nov 20, 2008 7:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Pryzbilla's value is not lost on me

because our team can’t defend the post for shit and that is a fundamental of basketball. We need a good tall SG and that is why I chose Webster. Right not we have a couple of tall SG’s in Hughes and Thabo but they both suck. If we could get Webster we would have a 3 guard rotation of Rose, Gordon and Webtser.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Remember guys

I would expect Oden to stay healthy enough for them to consider trading Pryz at the deadline. Blazer fans can say what they want but a Hinrich / Roy / Fernandez backcourt would be spectacular. Asik was thrown in as a deal sweatner. When you make a trade you have to make is attractive for the other team also.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you want

Webster to be part of your three-guard rotation, it might be problematic. He may be listed as a SG (I dunno if he is or not) but the guy is a quintessential SF, and his handles can charitably be described as mediocre. Gordon and Webby handling the ball would be full-court-press city.

I like Hinrich a lot and think he’d be a great fit on the Blazers, but at this point in time, if I’m KP, I wouldn’t want to trade for him. You’re still incorporating Oden and Fernandez into the lineup, trying to figure out the combinations that best work, and your starting SF for the past two seasons (who, by the way, is the perfect fit for our eventual Oden-focused starting lineup) has been on the shelf all year. Patience is a virtue.

by BlazersOrBust on Nov 20, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"We need a good tall SG"

yes, that’s the biggest of the Bulls problems.

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What is?

I’m guessing it’s the post presence, which would be addressed by this trade and the wishful acquisition of Bosh. While this deal doesn’t sound like it’ll happen, the lineup suggested for 2010 of Rose, Webster, Deng, Bosh, Pryz sounds like a wonderful thing. There’d be a TON of pressure on Rose as he’d be the only credible handler on the starting team, but you’d have great post presence in Bosh (again not sure we’re not dreaming here) and shot blocking, rebounding with Pryz and Bosh. Ugh, that’d be a nice team. It’s not going to happen, but it sounds nice.

How could the bulls address their problems? Who’s the post presence that makes sense for the Bulls?

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by hobobob on Nov 20, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they need more players that are good

so the solution isn’t replacing one of the few players who are actually good with someone who isn’t as good (but is taller)

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Especially considering Webster isn't all that "defensive"...

…but he was replacing Hinrich with Webster, not Gordon. But whatever. Considering those two things, the “we need a tall SG so that’s why I included Webster”, yeah, it’s stupid.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 20, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I said a "good" tall SG

All of our SG’s suck with the exception of BG and our PG is taller than him.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Listen people we suck

We have a gurad glut and we need to do something. Half our roster sucks and trust me I am not a pessimsit. I beleive Noah will be fine once he locks himself in the weight room and add some bulk. I think Noce should be kept because he plays with fire.

I beleive we should keep BG as a 3rd Guard off the bench. I beleive Deng would be a good 3rd option, but we need to get a #1 or #2 option and hopefully a post scrorer. Rose is a Point God and Tyrus is a bust. Thabo and Hughes both suck and Gooden will be gone next year.

Hinrich is good and is a good assest and an expensive one. The Bulls cannot expect to contend if they pay thier back-up PG 10 mill a year. I think Webster is a good player and is young. I think he will fit well with Rose. Will he be the missing peice for a championship? Uh no. But, he is a good player giving us something we need (a wing that can shoot).

Why not try and get Bosh in 2010? You guys are too much like Pax and settling for a mediocre team. Even if Webster isn’t an option Pax needs to get off his ass and make a trade and do something with this team or loose Rose when he becomes a URFA.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I was more of a writer than a smart ass, I'd write a FanPost about this

I seriously don’t know crap about Chicago, but my outsiders perception was that you were a young team that was pretty good and then you added Ben Wallace, after that you weren’t so good. He’s gone, you’re not much older than you were when you were “young,” and you now have Noah and Rose. I don’t think Chicago sucks, I just don’t get why Chicago isn’t a better team.

I think 5-2 at home isn’t bad. Your record just makes your team seem younger than it is. I just don’t get what’s going on.

by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles wore them out...

…and they haven’t had a “real” coach since. Not too complicated.

And they’re actually younger than they were two years ago. Avg. age in 2006-2007 was 26. This year, about 24 1/2.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 20, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope VDN figures it out

The Redskins are doing OK with a rookie coach. I know it’s a different sport though. The Basketball Jones were kind of ripping on Gordon, so I know some of what’s going on. Thanks though.

by tominhawaii on Nov 20, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, no, no.

Zorn has at least been an assistant for the past 20 years, going from an assistant on lesser college team and moving up through the NFL.

Del Negro has NEVER coached before in ANY capacity at ANY level. EVER

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 20, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

But how many quarterback coaches go straight to head coaching jobs? I wonder if I can blame the crappy Seahawks season on Zorn.

by tominhawaii on Nov 21, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's still waaaaaaaaaaay different.

Managing players personalities and egos day-in and day-out is almost always a learning experience.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 21, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Youth's a good point.

These guys have a great chance to grow into a solid team with Rose, especially. Webster’s not likely to add anything Deng couldn’t. Bulls fans should be pulling for a true rebounding, shotblocking scorer on the post to create some kind of inside out game, relieve some pressure from Rose, and give him someone to dish to once he penetrates. Bosh would make the Bulls very good. Probably not a contender, but who knows. Just don’t see it happening, though.

They’re just super young. They’ll have ups and downs. Give em time.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 20, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is this satire?

USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but you said...

We need a good tall SG and that is why I chose Webster.

Webster isn’t better than Gordon and him being taller doesn’t matter. It’s a stupid comment.

Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!

by tyger1147 on Nov 20, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's got a better stroke from long

and he could bother more people on D, but Gordon’s better. That’s hardly the point, though, since you have Deng at SF, which is Webster’s postition. Deng is clearly better.

I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich

by hobobob on Nov 20, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and he is not really a shooting guard,

he is probably a Thabo like tweener, a combo 2-3, with maybe a better shot.

by BigWay on Nov 20, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Webster is a natural 3.

"Sergio is clearly the MJ of 3rd string point guards!" —Mortimer Pritchard

by timbo on Nov 20, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually as a basketball player Gordon

absolutely sucks also. If we were competing in a shooting contest in an empty gym he might be a winner, but in an actual game that requires other actual skills and where the other team actuallly plays defense, he is both short and comically useless.

by BigWay on Nov 20, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with Ben Gordon

as the Bulls SG is that PaxDorf did not get him signed, so he will likely be producing 22/5/5 for another team next year. :(

by Granny Waiters on Nov 20, 2008 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bosh is really not a post player

He likes the mid range jumper, that is why the Raptors picked Oneal.

by BigWay on Nov 20, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why the fuck we would want to trade Asik?

I know, I know we hadn’t see him play and he might be a bust, just like TT is becoming. But the guy is a legit C and is a blockshots machine. He’s defense is great. Plus. Why would we trade a C when we don’t even know if we can get something in 2010. I prefer loose TT and Noah than Asik right now. He’s not a PF trying to become a C, just like VDN us trying to do with Gooden…

One more thing. Pax knew when he trade for Asik that we would only get him in 2010. So, maybe he’s includding Asik in his 2010…
A Rose, SG – use Hinrich, Noce, TT, Noah, BG, Thabo and the others to get the best we can -, Deng, Bosh Asik seems to be a good starting five.

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Nov 20, 2008 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"So, maybe he’s includding Asik in his 2010 PLAN"

forgot one worth

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Nov 20, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Excuse my French, but my sentiments exactly

by BigWay on Nov 20, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We only hope Asik can play

and give Pax a rebound with his drafting which has sucked since he drafted Deng and Gordon minus Pooh.

Homecoming

by illwill on Nov 20, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're giving Pax way too much credit for being crafty

He drafted Asik to put him on the team…because he loves big slow white guys for some reason. Pax doesn’t know what he’s going to do with the team 2 weeks from now, let alone 2 years. How do you know Asik’s “defense is great”? From a few YouTube clips?

He will not be included in any 2010 plan…unless he’s a throw-in to get the ultimate player (Bosh?).

by NormVanBeer on Nov 20, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I read, you know

I’m not one of those that goes to youtube everytime I want to know a player. And draftexpress has a good explanation of Asik’s skills. He impressed during the Euroleague and his stats, from someone that played 18,5MPG in 15 Games, are not so bad…

But now I want to know where did you read that Asik is slow? Is not like Aaron Gray. Besides, he’s showing a lot of interest in beeing on the Bulls. Chicago Newspapers have been writing that Asik is frequently on the Berto Center talking to VDN

http://comunidadebulleana.blogspot.com/ - Comunidade Bulleana (O blog dos Bulls em Portugal)

by bull83 on Nov 21, 2008 6:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've read the same articles

about him being at the Berto. OK and? That just proves my point…he’s going to be a part of the team. He wasn’t drafted due to some crafty lil plan that Pax has thought out in his basement.

A 7ft (6’11), white, European…he’s slow

by NormVanBeer on Nov 21, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you heard of Andris Biedrins?

He is 7 foot, white, and European and decidedly not slow. That’s not analysis, that’s racism. Asik is actually known for being very mobile and having a great motor. He’s also not a loafing 6’11". He’s 230 pounds and solidly built and gets up and down the court well.

by fundamentallysound on Nov 21, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

no

Oden...Aldridge...Roy.....THE REAL BIG THREE

by CroRupt on Nov 20, 2008 7:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think there's a significant chance of Hinrich to the Blazers, but the deal would most likely include Outlaw & Frye.

Actually, does that math work? Not quite, about a million dollars off — but KP & Ko. could figure that stuff out. Those are the odd men out in the Blazers’ rotation. I think Webster as seen as the 3 of the future, they drafted him with a lottery pick straight out of HS and he’s just now coming into his physical prime as an NBAer.

Things are starting to look like the Blazers will sit pat on their PG situation though, for this season anyway.

"Sergio is clearly the MJ of 3rd string point guards!" —Mortimer Pritchard

by timbo on Nov 20, 2008 8:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Hinrich to the Blazers is quite likely, but Martell will not be involved.

The Blazers just signed him to a 4 year extension a couple weeks ago. That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t trade him, but it would be pretty wierd if they did and mean that it was a deal breaker for the other team. I don’t see how another team would want him that much.

Figure out how to work in Frye and/or Outlaw and one of our point guards (take your pick). Your problem Bulls fans is that Kirk is worthy of something good in return, but his somewhat large contract makes it harder for other GMs to justify giving equal value. Paxson will probably hold off hoping for something good and then have to take the best deal available when we get closer to the trade deadline.

You guys will be pissed that he didn’t get equal value in return, but his other option would be to not make any trade and you’d be back to square one (and we say how well that worked out for you last night… jk).

I think you need to go back to the salary dump idea and incorporate RLEC (Raef La’Friends Expiring Contract) and one of our PGs or Channing Frye if your heart so desires.

by Bust a Bucket on Nov 20, 2008 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs