Rumor: Bulls/Blazers trade in works?
If Pax can pull this off, then I think it's time that we stop bashing him.
This would:
a) Allow the Bulls to show they want BG back and are serious this time
b) Give us another expiring contract to combine with Gooden's which would give us $18 mil coming off the books between them two alone
c)If we fail with Gordon, we could make a run at Boozer this offseason...or maybe both? Cap geeks, I want to hear from you!
Basically, I think this move is too good to be true but let's pray it happens.
about 3 years ago
Illini15
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I thought not
and to the second question: maybe not :-/.
Sadly due to Paxson’s (or his boss) generous extension spree, it can be thought of that getting an expiring deal for Hinrich may be worth it simply because it would free up room to re-sign Gordon.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
Both Kirk and Lafrentz are hurt.
Teams can trade injured players at their discretion. Caveat Emptor.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
Um, why would Portland trade a fine PG for someone who can't play for 3 more months?
Why not just wait till the trade deadline when Kirk is actually healthy? Sergio has been complaining about his lack of minutes, with Rose getting near 40 mpg here will he like it any better here? It’s a good idea, just don’t think Portland would trade for an injured player now when they’re trying to contend for a playoff spot and Sergio can easily step in and start.
"get rid of the wiry cunt, he’s fucking hopeless"
by hoodlight on Nov 14, 2008 8:02 PM CST 0 recs
Because he's not a fine PG
I’d really, really prefer to figure out how to get Martell Webster in such a deal. Sergio strikes me as a guy who’s been relatively useless.
But if this deal wipes $8M off the books next year, then I suppose we get to keep Gooden and Gordon. But yeah, it’s a shame if this is the best we can do. I wonder how this juxtaposes with the Larry Hughes to Washington rumor.
De gustibus non est disputandum
You haven't watched enough Webster
They guy’s just not that good. He doesn’t drive much, not that athletic (Deng athletic, but smaller). All he’s got going for him is that he’s young.
...and his awesome shooting stroke
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
Not very athletic?
He’s very athletic. He has a great shooting stroke. He would still be a senior in college if he hadn’t declared for the draft in 2005. Maybe you haven’t watched him enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anm3JEG6B2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMVXnJDBtnI
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
I lived in portland
I’ve seen enough of him. I admit that was an impressive dunk, but you won’t see that from him much. He’s a shooter that misses a lot despite his sweet stroke. He doesn’t attack the basket much and so I don’t see him as a good fit for the Bulls. He’s tall, but not very fast, which is why he doesn’t drive much and which is why he plays against small forwards.
Sergio has been complaining about playing time
and I don’t know when deals are made and when they are announced.
As I reviewed the Billups trade it appears that Rip hamilton actually signed his contract extension prior to the Billups trade. The Pistons didn’t announce the signing until after the trade was executed.
I always thought you could not trade an injured player, but perhaps you can agree to the trade in principle today and execute it when Hinrich is healthy.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 17, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
why would they do that?
That’s practically a PR nightmare…the Bulls golden boy be a lame duck for three months?? Yeah right. There’s pretty much no way that happens. We know how Pax is when it comes to things leaking to the press…whether true or not.
The leak is some blazers insider
so it wouldn’t be coming from the Bulls so as to leave Kirk out there hanging for 3 months.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 17, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
Nice trade
but I don’t know if Hinrichs injury stops this trade. Can teams waive physicals? Didn’t the knicks ignore Eddy’s condition?
I don't think Eddy
has had complete tests done/publicized for NY to even ignore. So NY kinda did a “can’t ignore what we don’t even know about lalala -” thing with Eddy while the Bulls were concerned and didn’t want to sign a guy who should have tests done to make sure he isn’t going to drop over dead during a game. For their own risk and definitely Eddy’s well being as well.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
i thought
the Knicks claimed they put Eddy through a plethora of tests…only to determine that he was fine?
Recently?
Because I don’t remember anything of the sort when they actually took him on. I know he has had health problems recently and he might have finally submitted to tests (the further out from Eddy we get as far as the Bulls go the less I stay up on these things), but at the time I don’t believe he consented to the specific tests concerning his alleged condition. They might have tested him in other ways, but he was pretty firm on avoiding certain tests back then.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
not recently, but right after he was traded
Eddy Curry, 22, passed a battery of heart tests administered by Knicks doctors and had those tests confirmed by an N.B.A. doctor. By 6:58 p.m., he was bouncing around a basketball court, a Knick at last. Curry, traded by the Chicago Bulls three days earlier, practiced for about an hour, then spoke publicly about his ordeal for the first time.
More than a half-dozen doctors worked on Curry’s case this week, said Isiah Thomas, the team president.
“After hearing from our doctors and them giving us an understanding of the lab reports and everything that they found, I’m extremely confident in what we have and what was done,” Thomas said. “And Eddy’s going to be playing in the N.B.A. and living a healthy life for a long time.”
The only test he didn’t take was the DNA test…but they say he pretty much passed everything else with flying colors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/08/sports/basketball/08knicks.html?pagewanted=print
by NormVanBeer on Nov 17, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
I know plenty of injured players have been traded in the past
Some never even played again (Big Dog Robinson and, I think, Jamaal Mashburn)
De gustibus non est disputandum
yeah you're right
I guess I imposed my ‘no more trade kirk talks’ edict because I thought a team would at least wait to see if he was healthy again. However it’s his thumb, not a torn-up knee or anything.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
Trading Raef is different
If he doesn’t play, insurance pays most of his salary. If he gets traded, his injury is actually a good thing.
If this trade is possible
then does Hunter or Ruffin get cut or is there another trade in the works?
It's 2 for 2
Hinrich, Simmons Out
Sergio, Raef In.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 17, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
The reason I would think a cut can happen
is that Sergio is a PG and not injured so he can be in our rotation right away. The Hunter signing made sense because of the whole true PG arguement and us not having a true back up. But this trade crowds up the back court again. So a cut or trade could happen. Possibly.
"According to ontheinside2 on the Oregon Live Forums . . ."
Sounds like a reputable source!
That's why it's filed as a rumor. Nothing more, nothing less.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on Nov 17, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Blazer fan here
You have every right to be skeptical of the O-Live forum posts. If you venture over there, be sure to wear waders — the bullshit is high and deep.
this is why Paxson does this deal
In 31 more games, 80% of Lafrentz’s salary becomes covered under insurance, so the Bulls will make up all of their luxury tax losses through those savings if they make this trade.
you mean Reinsdorf
I’m not sure why insurance covers it though. Has he been declared medically ineligible to play or something? I know he just had surgery but I didn’t know it was taking him out for the season.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
This just doesn't feel like a Paxson move.
Not sure why, I just couldn’t imagine him making this deal. It feels like he’s been waiting five years for the perfect trade to come along, so now all of a sudden he’s gonna move one of his biggest assets (his opinion, not mine) for a backup pg that is already disgruntled over being a backup in Portland and some cap relief? If Webster or someone else was involved it would make a little more sense.
better than letting a better asset go in free agency.
though an appropriate Paxson joke would be: “I can’t imagine Paxson making this deal because it involves Kirk Hinrich”
I think the perfect trade idea is gone anyway, because they got a superstar without it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe Paxson finally realized
that the typical “Paxson move” doesn’t work.
And it makes sense because
Paxson is essentially trading Hinrich for five more years of Ben Gordon.
Yep, which at this point looks to be a great deal now that Rose is the future.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
That's rampant speculation.
Ben Gordon will be an unrestricted free agent who has turned down offers from the Bulls for two consecutive Summers.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
it's a hope
show him the money…much worse grudges have been forgiven due to the same thing.
Besides, if you let Gordon go, might as well let Hinrich go to: it’s rebuildin’ time!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
You mean Paxson wouldn't trade a productive young player for an expiring old contract.?
Tyson Chandler, JR Smith, PJ Brown and Howard Eisley disagree
De gustibus non est disputandum
heh
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
The only worry for me
is that, because Rodriguez is pretty damn good, the Bulls will want to play him there, sliding Rose to the 2 for ten minutes or so a game. I pretty much want Rose exclusively at the point. That’s where he’s best; that’s where he should play.
Still, I’d be fine with this. I’ve gotten to watch the Blazers a few times this year, and Sergio’s a really fine point. In fact, he’s much better than Blake – except that he doesn’t fit their grind-it-out style (as would Kirk).
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I've watched no Blazers games
but seems to me like Sergio is barely in the league.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sort of.
If you look at his minutes though you can see he’s got it pretty rough. 2-4 minutes at the end of each quarter makes it hard to get consistent. He needs to work on his offense, but he’s still young and a lot of young guys struggle with their shot. His passing skills are superb, and his ball handling is excellent. If he can get his shot going he’s basically a poor mans Jose Calderon.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
It's probably owing to the fact that I've seen him like three times;
each time he’s been good, but that’s not much of a sample size. He excels in the open court, but his defense is problematic. Spotty shooter but excellent court-vision and handle. Again, though – if this means we’re going to see Rose at the 2, bad move!
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
I have absolutely no fear
that any player would move Rose to the two. Maybe if Skiles were coaching….
If Sergio can play, then good, because the Bulls still need a backup PG.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
No way anyone moves Rose to the two.
Least of all Sergio. He is decent backup with loads of potential, nothing more or less.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
If he was "pretty damn good" he'd be playing over Steve Blake
no matter their style.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
that's just not true.(portland fan)
Steve nash would have trouble playing in Portland. Becuase Nate refuses to use brandon roy as a pg instead of a sg who play’s exclusively pg….leaving the pg on the team to play sg….
it’s so complicated it’s no wonder we grind out games.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out burns out farms and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
In this trade rumor.
Rodriguez=Simmons. Except cheaper.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
Coincidentally, there was an article today from stat geek Kevin Pelton on why Sergio doesn't play more.
http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=441
Basically, Brandon Roy and Sergio Rodriguez both need the ball in their hands. It’s obvious who doesn’t get their way (and minutes). Steve Blake can play off the ball since he’s a good spot up shooter.
P.S. As a Blazers fan, I wouldn’t like this trade since I’ve felt that Hinrich is well overpaid. If he were healthy, he’d still help the Blazers.
Regarding Hinrich
It’s interesting that this is the second team (I’ve read about guys in Memphis wanting him) that wants him to play, but primarily to team up with a guy that dominates the ball.
We, on the other hand, are up for trading Kirk because he dominates the ball too much for our tastes, and we think he’ll be wasted playing off the ball with Rose. Somebody, somewhere is wrong.
De gustibus non est disputandum
well they also want him as a security blanket
whereas Rose doesn’t need one
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2008 8:40 AM CST up reply actions
they're wrong. :P
we’ve all seen how he plays off the ball.
actually, he could probably go somewhere with a dominant ball handler, because he’d probably handle the ball enough – and puts another good ball handler when the star needs rest (a la mo williams and lebron). he and blake also have very similar career shooting %.
I just want to get rid of Hinrich
because he duplicates a position. If you have two oranges and need an apple then you try and trade an orange for that apple.
I think when you complement Hinrich
with a good SG that can handle the ball in crunch time and give him real low-high post threats to feed you will get the most out of his offensive game and he’s always going to bring a high level defensive game.
I’ve wanted to trade Kirk to Miami, Minnesota or Portland because I think these clubs all have these needs and the type of players I’d like to get back in return.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 18, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this is a good trade
If only because we are turning an asset who is currently not really needed – into salary cap relief for an asset who is defidently needed, and if not – it becomes space for 2010, which is probably more useful than a highly paid backup.
by rquinsee on Nov 17, 2008 5:18 PM CST reply actions
damnit where is our BlazersEdge ambassador
I misplaced the conch
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions
Yeah, and there's not even a fanpost/shot about this on BE right now
Or even a Mortimer appearance here. Weird.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
I like Sergio.
He would be a great backup for you guys.
Assists per 48 minutes.
1. Chris Paul
2. Sergio Rodriguez
3. Jose Calderon
4. Baron Davis
5. Steve Nash
6. Jason Kidd
It not a fluke either. His rookie year he finished second to Steve Nash, he’s just not a Nate McMillian kind of guy. His shot is getting better, and he’s playing some good defense. Jerryd Bayless (Summer league MVP, 29.8 ppg) can’t even get to playing time because Sergio beat him out for the backup PG minutes during training camp. Sergio is full of potential, super cheap, and really young. He’s as pure a point guard as they come, and he should compliment Derrick Rose nicely.
You will love him… and then you will hate him… because that is your way.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
No offense, but per-48 is kinda wack
You’re better of using per-36 mpg stats since no player (especially a career role player like Sergio) plays every minute of every game of the season.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 17, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks.
He’s still #2. Just pretend it says 36 if that makes you happy.
I want to put points on your face.-Rudy Fernandez
by Winchester on Nov 17, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 17, 2008 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Chris Mihm
is averaging 34 pts and 10 rebs per 36. So, yeah, per 36 is kind of misleading.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
only when you apply it blindly without looking at anything else for context
like total minutes played (sample size, sample size, sample size).
by fundamentallysound on Nov 18, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
But the poster was suggesting
That per 36 is better than per 48. They both can skew data with a limited sample size, but there really isn’t a big difference if you report per 48 vs per 36. Just take all the stats and multiply by .75. Rankings aren’t going to be affected by that.
Ha! Love it!
“You will love him… and then you will hate him… because that is your way.”
—So true. Only Derrick Rose has yet to receive the ire of BaB.
Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."
Let me add fuel to the fire (just for fun)
Most trades really catch fire when the two teams are in the same area playing each other. That way the GM’s can sit down face to face and talk. uummmmmm Blazers play the Bulls……. on Wednesday. Let’s see if Paxson remains in Chicago.
There might be something to it
Hinrich would be the kind of player who could flourish under a rather conservative and defensive-minded coach like Nate McMillan. Not a flashy player, but solid all around and in stretches could play both guard spots which is rather important for us (foul-prone when on SG). Plus he and Pritchard are both Jayhawks, which could appeal to our GM. Sergio has potential running a team and already is a very good passer, but he is not very likely to fully realize it in the Blazers’ system (slow pace, lead guard Roy needs the ball in the first unit so he can mostly just play with the second – and that not very long). Raef is a big expiring contract, and the insurance will pay part of it, so financially it’s attractive for Reinsdorf.
All of you are missing the biggest issue with this trade!
Blazers Edge gets Sue in this trade! Who do we get back??
I say we hold out for Mortimer or Dave.
are there any sergio fans, not blazers fans?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 18, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
unfortunately they only speak spanish
But Sue, you’re more than welcome on my site, where we’ve got a nice big community of mostly sane Blazers posters.
< / end shameless plug
And anyway, how come you KU fan’s aren’t so devoted to Gooden?
De gustibus non est disputandum
Although with Kirk on the inactive list...
I haven’t seen Sue around for a while…
Does this mean we have to get one of the inactive Bedge posters?
Probably
Sue has made it very clear that she is only a Kirk fan, and not really a Bulls fan.
To that, I say…“blah”…but whatever floats someone’s boat.
Yeah, I know
Don’t get that either.
But then I’ve never been a Jayhawks-fan… ;)
A salary dump, plain and simple
Sure would like to think that we could get more for Hinrich than just a salary dump. I don’t think that there is any urgency to trade Hinrich immediately. We should wait until the trade deadline to get a better deal.
Portland is not happy with Rodriguez style of play, too helter skelter, they are looking for a more steady influence. Hinrich is a big upgrade for them.
Now, if we were getting Rudy Fernandez, that would be a whole nother story.
Lol, we'd have to drop an atomic bong (Robin williams ref)
on the entire city of Portland for that to happen!
(If there’s any way of making THAT happen I’m def all for it!)
I'm the BlazersEdge ambassador
And this trade just doesn’t feel right to me. I’m going with my gut on this one and my gut thinks that Hinrich is worth more than a salary dump and Sergio.
As for the Blazers, it is way to early to deal the Raef LaFrentz expiring contract. I don’t think the Blazers will deal LaFrentz, because management has mentioned several times that Paul Allen is looking forward to having a pile of cap space during free agency. Unless it is a “Holy shit, this trade is a no-brainer to significantly improve our team,” I don’t think the Blazers will do it. With his contract and injury, Hinrich isn’t a “holy shit, no-brainer improve your team” type of player.
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