Are the Bulls players calling out the coaches?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 2:41 PM CST
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Here's NBA superstar Drew Gooden on how the Bulls can improve defensively, per the Sun Times: ''I need to do a better job and the coaches need to do a better job teaching our young guys how to defend bigger, stronger guys with quickness and the mental part of the game."
First Luol Deng calls out the coaches, and now Drew Gooden. Nice operation they have going there.
On the radio, he and Boers are mocking this quote as yet another example of the Bulls players being turds and having no respect for Vinny.
I do agree that Drew Gooden has no place talking defense....but hadn't thought it was that bad (some here kindof liked it).
But it is kindof strange that this is indeed the second time a Bulls player has literally called out the coaches. Luol's quote was a week ago saying that they needed to alter the end-of-game offensive sets.
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Drew Gooden has been traded like 4 times
I guess there are a lot of coaches calling HIM out. Really, i think players are attempting to make excuses for poor play. They did it under Skiles, Boylan and now VDN. In my opinion Gooden’s quote was ludicrous, considering he has been in the league for like 7 years and no coach has gotten him to play solid D. In fact he has been traded twice (Cleveland and Orlando) and both times his lack of D was cited. I guess Mike Brown can’t coach D either.
The players admitted after the Atlanta game the coaches told them that the Atlanta big men were going to sprint down court, but they failed to stop it. I can’t believe the coaches are instructing Tyrus to play the D he was playing against Atlanta, probably why he was sitting.
by DangerMouse on Nov 13, 2008 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Link me
The players admitted after the Atlanta game the coaches told them that the Atlanta big men were going to sprint down court
Thanks.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 13, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From Noce
“We lost on the fast break,” Nocioni said. “We knew about that before the game. I don’t know why we didn’t figure that out during the game.”
I don’t expect Noah or Thomas to say anything like that. That would mean taking personal responsibility.
by DangerMouse on Nov 13, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh jeez
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that counts
And I’m sorry for daring to be critical of Noah and Thomas, but they have been saying that stuff ever since they got here. Its time for improvement. And Noah also said “It was almost like they were cherry picking,” Noah said. “As a big, you go and crash the glass. That’s our job. If (your man is) already down (the floor), somebody has to pick him up until you get there.” That is two excuses rolled into one.
So Noah didn’t exactly lay down on the cross or anything. But I wasn’t trying to compare Noah/Thomas and Noce. I really don’t care what they say after practice. I was just pointing out the quote to NBAObserver that the team knew Atlanta was going to fast break but the players failed to perform. The players are saying all the right things, but failing to do what the coaches tell them to do. That was my only point. And when Noce played, Hortford didn’t have as many easy buckets or rebounds. Not advocating Noce, just pointing out the facts. Its one thing to say you will take responsibility. Its another to man up during the game and actually do something.
by DangerMouse on Nov 13, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You weren't trying to compare Noah & Thomas to Noc
by literally doing exactly that?
And you called them out for not saying they played poorly, but when it was pointed out that they in fact did, it doesn’t count because they always say it? That makes sense.
by JeffD on Nov 13, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean to do it,
it was a stray comment, a mistake, i don’t care, i apologize, are you happy now?
by DangerMouse on Nov 13, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm really concerned with what I put emphasis on
The coaches part wasn’t something I had read. I thought I might have missed a precise quote.
I do take it easy on Tyrus, but I can’t allow him to go unscathed when Al Horford beats him down court on every possession change. Tyrus really does a half run when he changes ends. It’s even slower when the opponents shot goes in.
I’d like to see him sprint end to end on every single possession change. Gordon and Rose want to push the ball by passing it before the timeline. If Tyrus runs he will have chances for fast break dunks.
If I don’t see this, we give away half of his effectiveness on offense.
In a trust with Vinny Del Negro.
by NBA Observer on Nov 13, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i heard that idea somewhere
I also saw this – If the Bulls would have gotten back on defense, coach Vinny Del Negro said after Tuesday night’s 113-108 loss to Atlanta, there’s a strong chance they wouldn’t have had to come back from a fourth-quarter deficit.
Transition defense, especially from the team’s big men, Joakim Noah, Aaron Gray and Tyrus Thomas, was lacking Tuesday night against the undefeated Hawks. Del Negro admitted as much, saying transition defense “really, really killed us.”
“It wasn’t a mix-up. We work on transition defense all the time,” the first-year coach said. "We just weren’t getting back. So you try to find ways to help them understand the importance of transition defense.
“We’re just losing our man, losing sight of our man, not picking up guys quick enough. Sometimes we’re picking guys up too quick. I mean … they picked us apart in the first half.”
http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2008/11/12/sports/nba/bulls/doc491ac463267e9198309313.txt
I guess I was just adding up the sum of stories. Noce says they knew they were going to run. Del Negro says they work on transitional defense every day and it wasn’t a “mix-up”. It seems like people are suggesting that it was Tyrus and Noah’s responsibility.
by DangerMouse on Nov 13, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the whole key to Drew's quote was mentioning the "mental part of the game"
Because that’s where I’ve lost almost all hope for both TT & Noah. They’re mental midgets… so it is up to the coaches to try to get through to them. And if they can’t, they need to be shipped out now while they have some “value” elsewhere. After all, Derick Rose isn’t getting any younger;)
by smash! on Nov 13, 2008 3:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think the whole key
is that Drew’s a mental midget too, if you insist on using that term (I wish people didn’t).
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Of course in reading not hearing the comment that Drew was basically saying he as the what 2nd most experienced behind Hughes on this team as a leader with the coaching staff have to work with the young guys to get better.
Maybe if I heard the quote and his context when he said coaches I would think differently but I don’t know, when I read that quote it doesn’t really sound like he’s calling the coaches out per se….
by majoyenrac on Nov 13, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't defending Gooden, that's for sure.
I was just noting the part that stood out, to which I agreed with.
As for your dislike of the term mental midget, is there a section of the site where I can look up preferred adjectives?
by smash! on Nov 13, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't think it was that bad
coaches call out players all the time…but people get in an uproar when it’s the other way around.
Of course, it wouldn’t have sounded so bad if it came from someone other than Gooden.
Also, he spoke the truth. The coaches DO need to put Tyrus, Noah, and others in a better position to succeed.
Just the other day someone in here said (I think it was Matt) that this team could use a couple of assholes. Well, 1 down…1 to go
by NormVanBeer on Nov 13, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
"but people get in an uproar when it’s the other way around"
um, because they’re not meant to be equals?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
I don’t know…I’ve just always hated how coaches/managers can pretty much say whatever they want about a player, but the player is scolded for even attempting to respond.
I’m not saying that any player should be able to say anything…but come on.
by NormVanBeer on Nov 13, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and I meant assholes on the court :)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 13, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He already have one too: Hughes
Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!
by bull83 on Nov 13, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget it wasn't just Deng and Gooden
Didn’t Gordon call them out a couple weeks ago on the starting line-up?
by Edicus2288i on Nov 13, 2008 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to hear the coaching staff
call out these players on their shortcomings, both physical and mental, and see how many of these players just completely fold. Check yourself Bulls players. You’ve run out of fucking excuses and you’re wearing thin on our patience. We’re not fools, we have eyes, and we’ve seen good basketball before, believe it or not.
by messwiththebull on Nov 13, 2008 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Boers and Berenstein.
Especially Berenstein, this guy is the king of overreacting to quotes. This Gooden thing may actually hold some water, but I hate those guys too much to give it any thought.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 13, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Their job requires them to talk about chicago sports for three hours a day
They will end up stretching things a bit thin. But they are pretty fair with their arguments and keep things funny/gay. I enjoy it from time to time.
by lampnasty on Nov 13, 2008 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They can be funny at times.
But they rely on getting stupid people all riled by making dumb statements. They’re constantly ripping athletes for minor things and making players and/or managers out to be really bad people over minor things.
by Juiceboxjerry on Nov 13, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretentious radio, in my opinion
without the knowledge to back up that pretentiousness.
by messwiththebull on Nov 13, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they are my radio heroes
some would say for obvious reasons.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2008 12:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now why would I ever think you would enjoy Boers and Bernstein?
The asshole-ness? The belief that they know everything about everything and everyone in the known universe and you are just a mere speck of stupidity? That doesn’t smack at all of this blog!
I like them as well, mainly because if I had a radio show I would be a giant douche as well to everyone.
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least it's constructive criticism from players
not the tantrums and missed practices we grew accustomed to last year.
by lampnasty on Nov 13, 2008 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreeance.
To me, it sounds less like whining and more like guys trying to figure out a way to win. Maybe it’s out of place, and maybe it shouldn’t happen publically, but I much prefer this to tantrums.
by arjoseph on Nov 13, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it surprising that two disgruntled veterans have little respect for
a man that has never been a head coach before?
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on Nov 13, 2008 4:20 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
When losing exists
no one is happy…. But I don’t blame VDN, unless he felt he didn’t need a Big Man coach and got rid of Brown? Still VDN can’t shoulder much blame. The players are frustrated… thats a good sign and at least they haven’t yet laid down just to collect a pay check.
Let the real architects of joining a bunch of young players with a rookie no experience coach stand up and take the credit!
by exult463 on Nov 13, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But they do have a Big Man coach !
Michael Ruffin.
The Game chose him !
by Diabolo on Nov 14, 2008 2:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he'll teach scrappiness
to tyrus and noah, and they can practice in any gym, even gyms without hoops and basketball rims.
by exult463 on Nov 16, 2008 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The team is playing crappy right now. Tyrus and Noah are getting dominated by good teams.
The notion that players on the Bulls addressing the media with earnest answers somehow throws a pile of shit on the coaching staff seems a bit unfair.
by lampnasty on Nov 13, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least Gooden is taking accountability.
He says that he needs to do a better job before saying the coaches need to do a better job…
This assessment is spot on. They do need to a better job teaching the young guys how to defend.
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on Nov 13, 2008 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
him saying he needs to do a better job is BS
It’s just a way for him to make people think, like you just did, that he wants to improve.
It’s like me saying “Ya I might have have made a Turnover in the first 3 mins of the game. And I need to work on that. But Loul Deng’s two crucial Turnovers at the end of the game are something he needs to correct if we want to win games.”
by Edicus2288i on Nov 13, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
point well taken...
but also Gooden’s in a contract year so he also might be compelled to win and actually be concerned about team play?
by exult463 on Nov 13, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vinny's hair is awesomeness
"You’re caught up in basketball. Get caught up in life" - Starbury's Head Tattoo
by Belize on Nov 13, 2008 10:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it looks like the eighties?
or nineties or something other than current.
by exult463 on Nov 16, 2008 12:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Given the point of your post, this is further evidence:
from Sam Smith’s Bulls blog:
“Ben had one of those nights he can have,” said coach Vinny Del Negro. “Ben was hot, so I kept calling his number. When you need points, Ben can give you that. He made shots and got us back in there. And the defense kind of picked up.”
Well, that was sort of the way it went.
Question: Ben, what was your mindset?
Gordon: “Shoot every time. I got fouled a few times, but didn’t get the call. I didn’t let that stop me from being aggressive. I continued to go to the basket and the second half I started to get some calls.”
Question: Ben, the coach said he was calling your number.
Gordon: “I didn’t even know if he was calling my number, actually. I was just going, anyway. I wanted to be aggressive and get something going. We had to do something to get the team going. We were down 25. I figured if we were going to lose this way, I might as well go out shooting all my bullets.”
You’ve got to give the guy credit. He tells it like it is.
Poor Vinny. I’m not sure if he just never had control or has lost it in record time.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 14, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah....
this rookie coach thing is not starting out great. If it stays sour, it’ll be yet another example of Paxson thinking ‘his guys’ have more character than they do.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It could be that, or
it could be that Vinnie is just not a great leader. It seems like he kind of tried to take credit for Gordon’s outburst when in fact Gordon was just taking the initiative. But then, what’s Vinnie supposed to do?
I guess he could have said, “In this offense, we do expect Ben to take the shot or take it to the hoop when he feels he can score. He did that extremely well tonight and I give him credit.” Instead, he said, “Ben was hot, so I made the decision to keep going to him.” Not a good situation.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 14, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forget the motivational speaker tour
plus I also heard from Hanley on the radio that he has those motivational posters all over the practice facility. Laaaaaame.
(then again, Doc Rivers uses that crap too)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NO! Are you serious!?
You have me wincing and smacking my forehead in disgust.
I understand Pax’s need to go “in a different direction” from Skiles, but Successories? You’re talking about Successories, right?
Ohhh man… That’s not leadership. That’s just corny…
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 14, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's actually quotes from some some singular leadership guru
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it was Successories,
we’d have to counter with this site. Just to inject some proper perspective. Ok, no; it’s just funny.
"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris
by bullhockey on Nov 16, 2008 1:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy unpleasant bit of honesty Batman!
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Nov 15, 2008 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is still early but has a bit of D'Antoni envy started to seep in.
D’Antoni seems to be imposing his will on the Knicks. The pre-season assessment seemed to be the Knicks did not have the right talent to run his offense. D’Antoni decided that despite $21 mil beiing paid to Marbury he wouldn’t play him. He essentially benched Curry and played W Chandler over Lee. Not popular or easy decisions. The message was clear. My way or the highway. He had enough confidence in his system to impose his plan on a team not seemingly made to implement what he wants to do. I know it is early and the Knicks schedule has been very favorable but they have looked pretty good and are 6-3.
VDN seems to be lost. The patients appear to be running the asylum. Repeating Bullhockey’s post above
"Ben had one of those nights he can have," said coach Vinny Del Negro. "Ben was hot, so I kept calling his number. When you need points, Ben can give you that. He made shots and got us back in there. And the defense kind of picked up."
Well, that was sort of the way it went.
Question: Ben, what was your mindset?
Gordon: "Shoot every time. I got fouled a few times, but didn’t get the call. I didn’t let that stop me from being aggressive. I continued to go to the basket and the second half I started to get some calls."
Question: Ben, the coach said he was calling your number.
Gordon: "I didn’t even know if he was calling my number, actually. I was just going, anyway. I wanted to be aggressive and get something going. We had to do something to get the team going. We were down 25. I figured if we were going to lose this way, I might as well go out shooting all my bullets."
You’ve got to give the guy credit. He tells it like it is.
VDN is not really imposing his will on this team. It appears from above they are doing what they all want to do. It is difficult not to wonder what our team would look like if D’Antoni were coach.
by chgobr on Nov 15, 2008 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
agreed on that.
though I’m sure D’Antoni has some Bulls envy as well.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 15, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the teams NY has beaten
Not much envy
by Option27 on Nov 15, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's a couple ways this could be playing out
It could be that the players really don’t give a rat’s ass about Shooter.
Or it could be that Shooter just reflexively opens his mouth to protect his players, in which case the players, who um… probably aren’t used to such things… are probably pretty happy with it.
The only thing that really matters to me is the product on the court, and I see the following
1. The Bulls offense is getting better and the players look increasingly comfortable and aggressive.
2. The players are being used in about the minute distribution I think makes the most sense for the team. Admittedly this is probably due to Kirk getting hurt, but still.
3. The Bulls seem to be making some progress on defense.
4. The players seem to be buying in. Yeah, one has seen bad shots and bad play by various guys at various points (in truth, almost everyone). But I’ve also heard almost everyone man up and admit they’ve played like garbage and/or taken stupid shots. That’s a good thing.
De gustibus non est disputandum
by Sports2 on Nov 15, 2008 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Coaches
If the players are calling out the coaches already than it’s time to get rid of all these players. New coaches and same old results. It’s time to change personnel if that happening already.
by Diehard BullsFan on Nov 17, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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