Lack of Skilled Bigs Means No Phoenix-Like Results - Derrick Rose Eight Games In

by bullhockey on Nov 12, 2008 11:45 PM CST

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-36-44/Derrick-Rose-Eight-Games-In.html

Chicago is struggling offensively under head coach Vinny Del Negro. The Bulls are 3-5 and they rank 17th in offensive efficiency. Del Negro is employing a D'Antoni-style offense in Chicago, albeit without the full range of personnel Phoenix had at its disposal during its salad days.

The recent Frontcourt Fiasco is the kind of game that puts an exclamation point on the thought that a lot of us are having, namely, that the lack of ability of Bulls' bigs has gone from the weakness we are hoping the Bulls will overcome together, to the insurmountable obstacle.

I believe that the writer of this article is being kind when he describes the Bulls as bing "without the full range of personnel Phoenix had". The elephant in the room just can't be ignored anymore--I'm now hearing guys on the radio talk about whether Pax gets fired.

One of the Chicago radio personalities was saying that if either Vinnie del Negro or Tyrus Thomas does not work out for the Bulls, Pax is gone. It was probably Buffone, which means I know the statement will be taken with a grain of salt, but still.

Now, with Rose injured that calls into question the fact that the Bulls seem to be burdening him with so much scoring instead of drawing and dishing. Because he has no faith in the bigs' ability to capitalize off of his penetration, he has to force the issue by actually finishing on those drives to the hoop that comparable PG's would have a big to finish the play--Chris Paul or a Deron Williams would drop a pass off to West or Boozer for a swish. And because of this lack of scoring, the Bulls are having him log some pretty heavy minutes, as well.

I wonder if the answer is employing Gooden and Deng in pick-and-pops, as both have a mid-range jumper. I just don't see the Bulls going to this that often, though. Other than that, it's a matter of waiting 'til the cows come home for Tyrus and Noah to learn basic pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop basketball.

Sometimes it takes an article like this to remind us what the Bulls' offense is supposed to look like. When you remember the D'Antoni-style offense of the last few years in Phoenix, you realize how far off we are.

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2009 FA class

Well this is one good thing about the 2009 FA class there are some decent “big men” that would fill voids in our front court. The top guys I would like to see us target are Paul Millsap (RFA-UTA), and Brandon Bass (FA-DAL). I think both are quality players, with Millsap being a better fit, but harder to acquire. I do think if the Bulls push hard and early that Utah might not re-sign Millsap because they might try and save the money for Boozer or a different free agent.
The Jazz do not want to be a luxury tax team, and might pass on Millsap if they think they can get Boozer back.

by Jamaicanpi on Nov 13, 2008 6:37 AM CST reply actions

I'd had the exact same thoughts on Millsap;

he might be a little buried in Utah. Could be a quality player, provided we don’t over pay.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Nov 13, 2008 8:00 AM CST up reply actions

Or we can get a big man via draft

Let’s face it, we are not going anywhere this year. Playing like we’ve been doing, problably not even to the playoffs – I just hope i’m wrong -, so why not try to get a good big via draft? There are some good ones like Blake Griffin, B.J. Mullens or Tyler Hansbrough

Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!

by bull83 on Nov 13, 2008 8:08 AM CST up reply actions

Plus

If we concentrate our efforts on resigning BG, probably this is the way to go, because we can save money letting go Gooden

Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!

by bull83 on Nov 13, 2008 8:13 AM CST up reply actions

Given that the point of the article is that our big men suck

… and Gooden is the only one who consistently doesn’t suck, why should we let him go?

Wouldn’t the wiser move be to make a move to free up space to re-sign him and still have enough to retain Ben or find a replacement?

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Nov 13, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

If the plan is get cap space to 2010, we can't re-sign everyone

Ben will want big money, like he did. So, I guess Pax will have to chose between those two…

Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!

by bull83 on Nov 13, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

or move some combination of Tyrus, Noc, Kirk, Thabo, 09 pick for expiring contracts

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Nov 13, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

I'm skeptical about this year's draft

Obviously, it’s way too early, but from what smarter people than me are saying, it’s not going to be a very deep draft and most of the talented bigs will go early. I don’t think Hansborough will be that good and Mullens and Griffin will be gone in the top 4.

by Jamaicanpi on Nov 13, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions

Let's hope we get lucky, then...

Please Pax, don't trade Hughes! Just make sure that he stays injured until... 2010!!!

by bull83 on Nov 13, 2008 8:40 AM CST up reply actions

Can you say Zaza?

by J Theory on Nov 13, 2008 7:59 AM CST reply actions

Actually, I was thinking of Frye.

Let’s face it: we’re not getting an Amare Stoudamire anytime soon. And by that I mean we’re not getting a perennial All-Star big. Isaiah’s not around to fleece anymore.

So we’ve got to look at realistic targets. Paul Millsap is a pretty essential cog in the wheel for Utah, and although he seems to have a better attitude than Ben Wallace, there are shades of Wallace in his blue collar, hustle game.

Frye is essentially the absolute opposite of Noah. Noah’s been all energy and defense and no skill. Frye can shoot mid range / outside jumpers all day, but seems to avoid contact.

The Bulls shouldn’t overpay or anything, but I do think he’d be a good fit.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Nov 13, 2008 10:43 AM CST reply actions

What about Bass?

I feel like he likes to bang a bit. Definitely too short to guard centers, but…

by Jamaicanpi on Nov 13, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions

I love Brandon Bass.

But I don’t see why Dallas would ever give him up.

Frye definitely has his warts, but he also has a lot of upside. Also, I would characterie the Bulls’ need as urgent enough to consider a guy like Frye.

by bullhockey on Nov 13, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions

They're not "giving him up"

He’s an unrestricted free agent that plays the same position that Dirk does. They can throw money at him, but I don’t know that they will.

by Jamaicanpi on Nov 13, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

Ok, I guess I am very skeptical

that Dallas would allow another team to outbid them for his services. If there’s a reasonable market price, then I fully expect that Dallas will pay that price to keep him. And if another team overpays to get him, then that’s just as bad and the same net result for the Bulls—Brandon Bass won’t be on the Bulls at that point, because let’s face it, it’s very doubtful that the Bulls would overpaying to get him.

But I guess it is encouraging that Brandon Bass is a free agent.

by bullhockey on Nov 14, 2008 10:09 AM CST up reply actions

Cheer up, Bull

Before giving up completely, look real hard at what TT and Noah could be by the time they’re 27 or so. They are both great athletes, and that type of length is very valuable. I still believe that the future is going to be determined by VDN’s results this season. If the staff can teach the young players to play their roles, we’re not that far away from competing with the good teams. The top teams are a mile away, so there’s no title to be had until LA and Boston slow down a little. I disagree with the notion that there’s any immediacy necessary on Pax’s part; he already went that route with Wallace.
Cuban is not letting anything of value go cheap. Better to set our sights on the chronic screwups of the league: Clips, Griz, Bobcats, Wolves.

by California Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

Well said, my man.

I like your positive perspective.

by bullhockey on Nov 14, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions

The most frightening thing I ever read about Bass

Before the draft I heard he used to work out with Tyrus and Bass beat him every time they played.

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Nov 13, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions

Thoughts.

Well, I like the Bulls but I’m a Blazer fan. And, if you can figure out how to get Hinrich in the mix, maybe you could get your hands on Frye given the Blazers have Outlaw as a combo PF/SF at 6’9". And, maybe, in that mix if you could persuade the Blazers to give up a #2 PG such as Sergio – you might get close to a deal. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the Blazers are shopping players. And no, I don’t over-value them in relation to Hinrich – so don’t start an IBM war.

Let’s face it. The Hinrich as SG deal isn’t upping his trade value any. He’s already a year away from his best year. I was one that thought if Paxton was going to give the ball to Rose, then he needed to have been far more aggressive in using Hinrich to get more help on the front line, or at the SG spot. Hinrich is not a solid SG, and he’s too good to be a #2 PG. Combine this with Gordon’s attitude, and you had a couple of players with value sitting around – neither of which was going to take you to the promised land. What the Bulls need is a solid SG who’s going to stay around, or, a big man that can be the next Bill Cartwright. Cartwright was never an all-star but he could do some things decently you needed to have done.

Posey moved, Brand moved, Camby moved etc. Where was Paxton? How hard was Paxton digging when the Brand/Camby deals were floating? At the least, Gordon is a veteran twin to SD’s #1 draft pick (also Gordon picked at 7)- which clearly demonstrated they wanted a Gordon type SG guard. If Paxton had flipped Gordon to SD for their #7 and change – they could easily have picked up one of the Lopez’s, for example.

Frankly, Paxton puzzles me. Rose is going to be first rate. No question about it. But Paxton is sitting their which chips – and has been for months – and the only reason you have chips is if you want to play the game. So why isn’t he playing?

by Eben Calder on Nov 13, 2008 3:42 PM CST reply actions

First off, I think it's hilarious that you refer to him as "Paxton"

He was the guy who played in the best Bulls backcourt ever, along with a guy named Mickael Jordan. it’s a running joke on this site, one which I at least find funny.

Second, who is SD? Are you referring to the LA Clippers as SD as in San Diego? If we were in 1984, that would be correct, and the Bulls would have a much brighter future.

Also, are you implying that Ben Gordon was selected #7? He was actually selected #3.

And finally, you stated that

Cartwright was never an all-star but he could do some things decently you needed to have done.

Well, actually, I’m of the understanding that he was an All-Star. In his rookie season. But that’s ok; so was Jamaal Magloire.

I know it seems like I’m correcting you a lot, but I agree with the central point of your post, I think. If it’s that Frye can be had for Hinrich, with some throw-ins here and there, and that John Paxson doesn’t seem to want to play ball with the other children, then I agree. Wholeheartedly.

By the way, I love how Blazers fans always swoop in with “Well, we would never do that!” or “Yeah, the Blazers like that idea.” I love that child-like passion where Blazers fans presume to speak for Mr. Allen. In a weird way it’s just refreshing.

by bullhockey on Nov 13, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions

mickael??

I pray you jest.

Asked what kind of player he expects to be in the next five years, he said: "Not a star, but like, a superstar. Something around, like, Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, something like that."

by BigBenign on Nov 13, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions

and yes,

I’ve seen “jordon” all over this site. but never “mickael.”

by BigBenign on Nov 13, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, I do indeed jest. In fact that was the entire point of the misspelling.

But yes, the most common one was Jordon.

by bullhockey on Nov 13, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions

aside from not so accurate minor details

the rest of your “thoughts” can’t be refuted by us Bulls Fans?

Actually Paxson wasn’t “all of that” and mostly was in-between being a spot starter and a reserve player without true pg skills. Pip played the point mostly and “Mickael” occasionally, and they let BJ and Paxson envision themselves as pgs who never really received top all-star ballots for the pg position.

by exult463 on Nov 13, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions

Did you ever see him play?

Our number one nemsis in the entire league was Isaiah Thomas, and Pax defended him very well. And he was a key in the best basketball I’ve ever seen played: game 2 against the Lakers, 2nd and 3rd quarters. Chris Duhon was mostly between a spot starter and a reserve…not even the same ballpark.

by California Al on Nov 14, 2008 1:59 AM CST up reply actions

Err... he's 10th all time in career field goal percentage

The man could play ball.

De gustibus non est disputandum

by Sports2 on Nov 15, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions

Actually Cartwright averaged 20 ppg on the Knicks before coming to the Bulls

He had offensive talent, despite his crazy shot mechanics.

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Nov 13, 2008 10:39 PM CST up reply actions

You got me. I threw it out. But on Gordon I was simply pointing out that the Clippers picked up Eric Gordon – a shooting guard at #7 – and he’s expected to become their version of Ben Gordon. As far as SD vs. LA – they may have the LA name, but that’s about it. The only team we acknowledge from LA is the Lakers in my area. In the end, someone speculated about Frye. And, at the end of the day, getting a solid backup to Rose and a front line player are your needs – not ours. Portland, on the other hand, needs a PG. And, you’ll also need an SG if Gordon and the Bulls can’t reach some compromise – and from where I sit, they certainly don’t seem to be on the same wavelength right now. Those are your two best chips. The rest, like the Blazers and others, are 2nd team players who will get more 2nd team players. So deal or stand pat – but the longer the Bulls stand pat, the less value those chips have.

by Eben Calder on Nov 14, 2008 3:55 PM CST reply actions