Remember all the talk from last June about bringing Derrick Rose along slowly and not burdening a rookie owning one season of college experience with too many expectations?
Well, forget about all that.
In conversations with several people who have witnessed or participated in Bulls practices, the praise for Rose is glowing and unanimous. Two people—one with ties to the Bulls' organization, one without—said Rose is having the best training camp of anybody on the team.
8 months ago
Option27
126 comments
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I never
doubted that Rose should be on the starting lineup. I just doubted the Bulls would come around to the idea too.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on
Oct 8, 2008 8:20 AM CDT
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Same here
and some of us need to chill on jumping on Pax everytime he doesn’t tell us exactly what we want to hear. Only a complete and utter idiot would have advocated putting undue pressure on a 19-year old rookie PG that early into the summer, yet that train of thought ran rampant.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 8:37 AM CDT
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yeah! huh?
not giving us the softpedal bullshit is putting undue pressure on him? I’m guessing he could’ve handled it. Pax was still acting turdish, and I’ll believe Rose starting when I see it.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 8:47 AM CDT
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The kid is 19 years old
what do you possibly have to gain by annointing him anything before summer league even started? You get to temporarily placate a moody fanbase. That doesn’t seem like much incentive to push a young kid any earlier than necessary.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 8:50 AM CDT
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And Rose has still essentially been annointed before the preseason has even started
I guess that’s still not early enough to have annointed him.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 8:52 AM CDT
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sorry, don't see the downside in Pax saying he expected a lot in him
let alone making those fans who feel that way ‘utter idiots’.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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besides, the Bulls most recent examples of handling young players
is the real reason for the angst.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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I shouldn't have said "utter idiots"
Rather fans acting out of utterly idiotic anger.
Their desire to diminish expectations came mostly from Rose’s age, the lofty expectations that always follow the first overall pick and the fact all rookies—particularly point guards—face a steep learning curve when the NCAA becomes the NBA.
Now why is this so bad again?
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 9:06 AM CDT
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not bad, just pointless and annoying
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 9:42 AM CDT
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Because there is no pressure on Rose before this?
Why can’t Paxson say: “Derrick Rose, provided he looks competent enough in the pre-season, will be the starting PG Opening Day. Let’s keep in mind, though, that he’s a rookie, and we expect a lot of bumps along the way.”
Seems like a good way to be honest w/o putting that crazy pressure on a No. 1 overall pick for his hometown franchise that never existed otherwise.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 9:08 AM CDT
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That's essentially the message I got from Paxson anyway
and now I have more concrete statements supporting this belief and preseason has not yet started for the Bulls.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
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#1 overall selection
There’s pressure whether Paxson is adding his or whether Paxson is doing nothing.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:36 AM CDT
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Yeah
The media and bloggers would not jump on him once he made a mistake. Paxson did the right thing.
by J Theory on
Oct 8, 2008 10:54 AM CDT
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I don't think so.
The “media” only care about character, not performance. The bloggers I’ve come across seem to understand that he’ll only be 20-years-old and there will be growing pains.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 11:20 AM CDT
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Kirk is getting
most the minutes with Rose, eh? I wonder if the busted foot sealed Gordon’s fate as a 6th man this year and the starting SG spot is Kirks to lose.
by silentpete on
Oct 8, 2008 2:14 AM CDT
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Kirk can guard 2s somewhat effectively and can relieve Rose of ballhandling when on the court together
makes sense to me even though ideally I’d like to see Thabo as the starter. I do think this pushes Gordon to being the fourth guard in the rotation rather than the third.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 8:48 AM CDT
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ideally
I’d like to see Thabo as the 4th guard
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 8, 2008 8:51 AM CDT
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Ideally I'd like to see Kirk as the backup PG
making him the 4th guard, but no soup for me.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 8:52 AM CDT
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Rose works well with anyone
According to 2k9! This is just the way i have the lineups and why:
Rose and Kirk: I wont lie, its mostly since im a kirk fan and its also the default lineup. This still is good, defensively kirk and rose lockdown the peremeter and when they double team any single ball handler (INCLUDING Arenas but NOT KOBE or LEBRON and Sometimes Paul) they are bound to create some kind of turnover (bad pass, or if im lucky a steal). Rose is utlized in attacking the rim and if the lane is open dunks the ball, if i attract attention a kick out to deng (who is pretty much money 15 ft and in) thomas, or if possible a wide open kirk. Kirk isnt a ben gordon in making his shots, but with him i often use set plays, and have him run the point in that sense. Meaning call a play with kirk as the ball handler and initiate the offense (pick and rolls are what i often use getting kirk a look, noah a dunk, or a slashing deng a shot). Kirk is money when wide open, and can hit a mid range well even with a hand in his face (depending on whos hand it is though).
Rose and Gordon: Defensively it gets pretty hard, i cant really force turnovers, although gordon can stay with the player he is guarding and keep his hand up. Big guards tend to shoot over gordon, and pgs often tend to get past gordon, so i often try to use a zone instead of man to man. Offensively though i get every point i lost back. Its at these times where rose really gets alot of assists, pick and roll with thomas or gooden, hit a slashing deng on the way to rim, or see gordon get a few inches of space (all he needs!!!) and hit a three (many times over!). OFfensively probably the best lineup.
Rose with Hughes/Thabo: Both and hughes and thabo are very much the same despite thier stat and tendency differences. They both are mainly slashers with an okay mid range jumper (dengs way better) defensively they are both solid, thabo gets more blocks while hughes gets more steals when playing with rose. Best used for defensive purposes, but offensively it can be used if the other team is soft on the inside.
I know this is how the 2k9 version plays out, but i really think real life can have very similar results.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Oct 8, 2008 3:29 PM CDT
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Sports video games are getting pretty scary.
In a good way I guess. I don’t play a lot any more, so when I went over to a friends and played 2k8 (I think, either that or NBA Live 2008), I was blown away. It had Kenny Smith as a color commentator and I was getting super nervous that “The Bulls” were losing. I kept simultaneously trying to play and cheering for them as if I were watching and not controlling their actions. It was weird, because not only did they get their strengths and weaknesses right, but their mannerisms and shooting styles correct.
All that to say, when you discuss the game, it does sound like a very plausible outcome to the coming season and how things play out. The caveat is that the players on the game play to their potential and work together in the way they should, not always in the way they do in real life. But if everything goes right, (which it could since last year everything went wrong) we could have a very deep team with lots of strengths. Nice post piccolomair!
by Unrealcity on
Oct 9, 2008 2:53 AM CDT
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Naw
Gordon will be the 3rd guard because you have to get scoring out of the two positions. The only way Thabo enters as the first guard off the bench is if Kirk gets into early foul trouble.
Rose isn’t a very good defender, so the VDN defensive schemes are important to watch whenever Rose and Gordon are on the floor together. I have real worries about the floor time the two spend together.
It all really depends on the coaching. I have moderate to high expectations when considering VDN’s array of proven assistants.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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Where have you heard/read/seen...
That Rose is not a very good defender?
"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson
by Dionysus2.0 on
Oct 8, 2008 10:17 AM CDT
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Watch tape
Yes, correct for the fact that Rose was playing within a defensive set, but he shows you many of the same qualities, or lack thereof, demonstrated by Ben Gordon. I think Rose has quicker feet, but like Gordon, in order to see that quickness they have to have the basketball in their hands. When you remove the ball their mindset adjusts and their physical reaction time declines.
Coaching will really matter here. I think Rose takes instruction better than Gordon, but VDN and staff are very different from Skiles and company.
What we need defensively from the PG position is a player that will keep the opponents point guard in front of them. I don’t need steals. I just need ball pressure that begins at the timeline.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:40 AM CDT
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"Rose takes instruction better than Gordon"
…and you concluded this how??
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:42 AM CDT
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use the force or your mind
Reading, watching, asking, observing and using the data to produce an analysis.
I would add one caveat to my opinion on taking instruction comparing Gordon to Rose.
Rose takes DEFENSIVE instruction better than Gordon.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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so i'm assuming
that you’ve been in training camp and/or practice and have had the chance to observe both players when they receive instruction from the coaching staff, and how they handle said instruction?
Could it be that Gordon takes defensive instruction very well, but just is having a hard time executing it?
“observing and using the data to produce an analysis”…LOL
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 8, 2008 11:14 AM CDT
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Come on.
You don’t have to be in training camp to see that Rose is extremely humble and eager to learn. It is evident in his play in college and how he listened to his coaches and worked hard and eventually excelled. In the same way, he came into camp this year and they said they would bring him along slow, thinking it might take some time to get adjusted and he is grasping things well according to KC and the players and VDN when asked about his progress. Even Rose says he is listening and learning from everyone.
“I’m learning plays, learning from the veterans, from the staff,” Rose said. “The veterans challenge me every day. They don’t let down. They know I’m not at that level yet. They make sure I’m learning.”
On the other hand, Ben got a little better during the years he had a very good defensive minded coach around to teach him, but never progressed very noticeably from who he was defensively when he came in the league, IMO. And I don’t remember hearing Ben say that he is listening to Kirk and Thabo and the staff about how to improve his defensive game. I vaguely remember hearing he was “getting better”, but it was relative.
My point is, Ben is working everyday on his strength, offense, and taking shots over an over again. It seems to me like Rose wants to be the best, (not just the best shooter) and therefore works on all parts of his game. And unless you’re a bad coach, you don’t tell your players to skip defense and only try to improve on offense. So who do you think is taking more instruction? Or do you need to go to the practices to figure that out?
by Unrealcity on
Oct 9, 2008 3:08 AM CDT
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your novel aside,
just because one player has a bunch of useable quotes and another doesn’t, that has no bearing on how well someone takes instruction. So we’re now believing what a person says based on how many feel-good quotes they give??
Unless Rose does all of these things in a game (which I hope he does), his quotes are meaningless. Because you have never heard Ben give a quote about learning, that automatically means that he doesn’t take instruction well?? Huh?
It comes down to execution. Point is, you really don’t KNOW how well he is taking instruction until you see him put it to use on the floor.
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 9, 2008 8:30 AM CDT
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Which is exactly my point.
From the court time we have (which for Rose is admittedly small) it seems obvious that Rose is a good listener and quick learner, where as Ben, defensively…not so much.
by Unrealcity on
Oct 9, 2008 12:26 PM CDT
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you have great powers
to be able to see those kinds of “obvious” things from 1.5 summer league games…
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 9, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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oooo... that psychology again that you know absolutely nothing about.
I totally missed this in my absence.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 10:47 AM CDT
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This year will be fun
You might as well create template to respond to my views.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:58 AM CDT
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actually I think NBAO was absent for a while too
my sitemeter has a bullshit tab.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 11:05 AM CDT
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hey at least my sig was still around!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 11:28 AM CDT
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Unfortunately,
I have to agree with NBAO when he suggests Rose may struggle initially on defense: he has strength, long arms and speed, but he stuggled (a little) to stay in front of quicker guards – such as Augustin, Chalmers and Collison – in the NCAA tourney. He’ll be a good defender in time due to his natural gifts and work ethic. But we should be prepared for him to struggle a bit in this regard.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
Oct 8, 2008 11:57 AM CDT
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Why in the world would we want Kirk relieving Rose of ballhandling duties
Screw that – Rose is a much better point and ballhandler. That’s absurd logic, even if he is a rookie. This guy is an absolute stud and there’s no way around it. I wish I could watch these practices; you know he’s just killing everyone trying to guard him.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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You expect Rose
to play all 48 minutes?
by sue369 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:52 PM CDT
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Um, no.
I think it’s pretty clear I mean that whenever Rose is on the court, the ball should be in his hands…AKA not Kirk’s. Sorry to offend you.
When Derrick is out, though, obviously Kirk should be handling the ball.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:04 PM CDT
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With Rose asserting himself
This makes the logjam even worse at the 2. It’s essentially going to be Rose + Hinrich/Gordon/Thabo/Hughes.
by RogersPark Kris on
Oct 8, 2008 8:55 AM CDT
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Somebody or two
is not going to play much. I think VDN hinted as much when he said, and I paraphrase: “Some players aren’t going to play as much as they’ve been used to.” My guess is that Hughes takes the biggest hit but BG will fall under 30 MPG. I previously could not see BG falling under that mark.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 9:09 AM CDT
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Hughes has to. Just has to, right?
He’s the one player who has absolutely ZERO chance of being in this team’s long-term plans.
Rose can get 25-30 mpg as the starting PG. Hinrich can get 18-20 mpg at PG & 10-15 mpg at SG. Gordon should get 30-35 mpg at SG w/ Thabo getting his minutes at SF. Nocioni should be traded.
Of course, the minutes are flexible for all except Rose.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 9:11 AM CDT
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I can live with that allocation
I’d like to see something like this:
Rose 35 MPG
Hinrich 30 MPG (split similarly to your bifurcation)
Gordon 30 MPG
Thabo 25 MPG (ditto)
Now the question is: is my desired allocation feasible?
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 9:14 AM CDT
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It's strange
when coming up with guard rotations that don’t even mention the 14 million dollar Hughes.
I really don’t want to play Hughes, but I imagine it won’t be helpful to bench him and maintain some sort of trade value. Maybe he gets it and realizes his only value is his expiring contract.
Stay in shape Larry. Winning isn’t everything anyway.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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I think playing him only hurts the trade value
the more you see, the less there is to like. It’s not like other GMs only read box scores and see that Larry Hughes scored 16 points the other day (while not realizing it was in 35 minutes and 22 shots)
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 9:49 AM CDT
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I hope they have the "guts", but I don't see it.
He’ll bitch if he doesn’t play; then they’ll have to send him home. I don’t think they’re ready to go down that route for someone w/ a $14 million and someone who played w/ Del Negro.
I would say mine and MWTB’s guess are very, very unlikely. This is a time for hope, though, right?
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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I don't either.
Many of the articles I have been reading keep mentioning Hughes either first or second. Hopefully they just don’t know what they are talking about, which is possible, but it still scares me.
by Unrealcity on
Oct 9, 2008 3:15 AM CDT
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See, we have to play him a LOT at the beginning of the season,
so he gets injured.
Rotation problems: solved!
… OK, maybe that’s a little harsh, but it would be a lot simpler.
by Prevenge on
Oct 9, 2008 2:04 AM CDT
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Almost...
As there are 96 available minutes between PG and SG. Split evenly between Rose/Hinrich/Gordon each would get 32 mpg. With Rose’s coming all at PG, Gordon’s all at SG, and Hinrich splitting 16 at each.
The problem there obviously is no mention of Hughes and in my opinion he is going to be the biggest thorn in the season trying to balance enough minutes to keep him happy and keeping him off the court for players that are better.
by CubFan81 on
Oct 8, 2008 10:35 AM CDT
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Nocioni
Should most certainly NOT be traded. If Derrick Rose is ready, Noc is a perfect off the bench complement.
Of course, if we can package Noc with Gordon and Gooden for a true top 10 C, I’m all for it. But Noc is hardly a bad player and is in many ways not far off Deng as a player at least when Noc was healthy and Deng was healthy last year (Noc is still a better defender—he gets trapped in swithces where the other guys don’t rotate, he can guard the 4 spot, something Deng can’t do, he could shoot the 3 well, and drive well). Deng has more upside and is better in qtrs 1-3, and is the better player, but it hasn’t been a huge margin quite yet.
Just my thoughts. The Noc bashing on here is a bit much. He makes too much money against our cap because we’re paying him a lot to be a 6th-7th man, but he’s not a bad player at all for the money he’s making, just a tough player to have on our team because he’s being paid 4th or 5th starter money, but is a 6th or 7th man because of Deng.
by majoyenrac on
Oct 8, 2008 11:39 AM CDT
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yeah, so that's basically it right there
and he’s nowhere near Luol Deng as a player.
And…I have no idea what you mean with respect to Rose.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 11:54 AM CDT
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He is closer to Deng than you think. Deng might be miles better if he takes on a leadership role, but that’s about it. Nocioni is a very solid player, but a redundancy on our team. He isn’t garbage
As far as Rose, if Rose gets better and plays 35 MPG, having a gunner off the bench in Noc (energizer, solid defender, can play 3-4) will be a nice commodity….
If we are back to a power in the East, Noc’s current bad contract becomes a great luxury.
by majoyenrac on
Oct 8, 2008 12:16 PM CDT
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Except that, in my opinion...
…he either needs to be traded to make cap space to sign someone to become that “power” or he needs to be included in a package in a sign-and-trade.
As I said, Noc is a good 7th man. it’s just that he’s paid as a starter (albeit the “worst” one) and w/ the no-luxury tax edict, his contract makes it that much harder to acquire top-tier talent.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:37 PM CDT
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Noc is a solid 4th or 5th best player on 85% of teams
in the league, the problem is he’s on the Bulls where we don’t need him because we have a younger Deng with greater upside.
Noc is tradable, but I don’t know if we should trade him. His contract looks worse than it does because we have the far inferior and far more expensive Larry Hughes eating up our cap, and we saw a regression in the even more redundant Kirk Hinrich last year (so much so that we went with the blessing of a #1 overall pick and picked hte best player available and not the need player fully knowing we were stacked at the guard spots).
No my friend, Larry needs to go first, then unfortunately (cuz I like Kirk) it’s Kirk next.
Nocioni is a nice to have on our team and his contract/salary declines as does Kirk’s. He can give us instant energy and offense off the bench, and is a better defender at the 4 than Deng for sure. He got caught last year because he’d try to cover for other guys not switching, making Noc look like he forgot his man on D, but that wasn’t it.
He’s a loyal player, gives you everything he can when he’s on the court, and wants to win.
In Nocioni I trust! I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree.
by majoyenrac on
Oct 8, 2008 12:42 PM CDT
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My comment is under the assumption...
…that those two options are severely limited due to Hughes’ expiring contract and favoritism for Hinrich (and Gordon’s uncertain future status).
Nocioni will eventually be traded when this team is a championship contender.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
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I'd have no problem w/ him staying if he were making $2-$3 million less per year.
As a seventh man, he’d be nice to have around to continue to provide a 3-pt shooter as Rose matures. However, he does make $7-$8 million per year over the next 3 years. So I’ll put it another way: Nocioni’s contract must go.
And as yfBB said, he’s nowhere near the player as Deng. Especially on defense, in the NBA, where they no longer allow flopping. And Deng can guard the 4 spot. Except for last year, he has been as good or better than Nocioni at defender 4’s. That’s one of the reasons the Bulls even tried small-ball.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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Deng no guard 4
Noc told me that, and I have to agree.
by RogersPark Kris on
Oct 8, 2008 12:34 PM CDT
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Statistical evaluation says you're wrong.
Except for this past year.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:35 PM CDT
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Either of those guys guarding a 4 isn't the greatest of ideas, IMO.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:39 PM CDT
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And the planets revolve around the sun, right?
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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There you are, back in full force!
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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I'm just saying...
…I’m not really advocating playing him at the 4. They both defend equally average-ly. There are obviously better options. Therefore, it is very obviously not the “greatest of ideas”. Not everything done in life is the greatest of ideas, right? Some things need to be done out of necessity, even if one has reservations, yeah?
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:56 PM CDT
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And I guess the point of my snark was that...
…if you wanted to actually add something to the discussion, maybe you could have. Instead, you just decided to swoop in and… call everyone dumb.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
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Ha. You're funny.
That statement wasn’t even an insult to you. It was a reference to the past idiotic moves of our lame-brain coaches who would play them there. Don’t be so defensive and always think people are coming at you. Christ.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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Well, then that's dumb.
Because no one mentioned the coaches. Not even you. And playing both of those guys at the PF position will happen at some point. And just about any coach in the league would do it for short spurts. It’s not the greatest of options, but at times it could be useful.
So forgive me for assuming that we were having an actual conversation about basketball. You saying you were calling out coaches is a lie.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 3:08 PM CDT
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Whatever man.
It’s not the greatest of options, but at times it could be useful.
Hence, not the greatest of options (as I said). Sorry I didn’t actually mention the coaches; I didn’t feel it was necessary and I didn’t really want to break it off into another F Skiles/F Boylan conversation. If I were actually coming at you, it would have been a lot more obvious and a lot more cutting than my prior remark.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 6:03 PM CDT
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And seriously
calling B*)*#()#@ dumb is nothing new around here. Sorry you completely missed the point, Snarky.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 2:09 PM CDT
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Seriously. Then call him out.
No one mentioned the coaches. You replied to me w/o mentioning a coach. Go figure I got it wrong! (which I didn’t, you’re just changing the story)
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 3:09 PM CDT
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I'm not changing the story at all
It was a statement implying something that I felt was fairly obvious. The Bulls have been known to play small ball and it has often been bashed around here, so I felt that statement was pointed enough that it was fairly clear who the intended target was. Like I said above, it would have been clear if I was trying to bash you.
Anyways, this is a really stupid argument from both ends. Only on Blogabull can a thread bursting with optimism about the #1 pick turn into a 1v1 e-scuffle.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 6:06 PM CDT
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Now that I think about it, I think I've seen you at WCG
Discussion over there is so weak, though.
And I also just realized that Alec posts there. Heh.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
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Can't trade Gordon w/out his approval
That’s a provision of the QO contract.
"I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany." - Ron Burgundy
by mdmnd9294 on
Oct 8, 2008 5:03 PM CDT
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Beautiful
I’m sure he’ll struggle at times, but he needs to be out on the court and learn from his mistakes. Let’s face it – even with his inexperience he might already be better than anyone else the Bulls have.
by Big D on
Oct 8, 2008 2:33 AM CDT
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This also made me quite happy
This genuine lack of an agenda is partly why Rose has been so impressive. Well, that and blinding speed, a professional practice approach that has him arriving hours early and his quick grasp of an offense that’s heavy on the screen-and-roll.
by Option27 on
Oct 8, 2008 2:34 AM CDT
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Here's an interesting note
The Bulls this season joined other NBA teams who subscribe to Synergy Sports Technology, a TiVo-like service that allows the coaching staff to show, say, Rose and Tyrus Thomas every screen-and-roll situation Phoenix’s dynamic duo of Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire have executed in their careers.
Or instantly show Rose every screen-and-roll Jason Kidd and Chris Paul have performed from last season and beyond. Rose feels fortunate to have access to the revolutionary scouting tool.
“People think screen-and-roll is an easy set, but you have to read it,” he said. "Sometimes you have to slow down if a defender jumps out. Other times you can get to the rim. There are so many things you can do with it.
“I’m trying to master it. I’m watching the veterans who did master it. That makes it a bit easier. But I still have to experience it against great NBA players night in and night out to get better at it.”
Weren’t Noah and Deng complaining last year that the Bulls weren’t doing enough film study? Good to see the new staff has tried to rectify that.
by Big D on
Oct 8, 2008 2:38 AM CDT
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New Staff + DRose =
Change!
Will not be ALL good, but at least we will see something different on the floor strategy wise and hopefully attitide and confidence wise…we had none of that last year.
by scottie33 on
Oct 8, 2008 10:24 AM CDT
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New Staff
=Change….Rose is platinum/titanium icing.
We were becoming easy to read going into 2006-2007 with our offensive sets….this should liven things up.
God I like what the quotes above said about Derrick. I hope he’s awesome! And I’d be willing to wait some time for it (don’t expect the need for him to be awesome out of the gate, but if he is, man that would be great)
by majoyenrac on
Oct 8, 2008 11:42 AM CDT
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I wonder if they could use this newfangled technology
to show Rose how Billups defends the point, or J Kidd before he was 45. If only there were a Matrix-esque mainframe we could use to upload this stuff directly to their heads. [In Keanu voice] “I know pressure defense.”
by arjoseph on
Oct 8, 2008 10:56 AM CDT
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Some news about DROSE!!!
Finally!!! Rose should and will start every game …glad to hear he is taking the Bull by the horns and really showing how mature he is with how he practices…Great news to hear…cant wait for the pre season opener Tomorrow!!!!
CHICAGO MANE!!!!
by YEP on
Oct 8, 2008 8:53 AM CDT
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I get the feeling that VDN is going to try to please everyone...
…and unfortunately for most fans that means playing Hughes some minutes. I honestly can see him using 2-guard substitutions…which might look something like:
Start with Rose & Kirk. Then around the 2-3 min mark bring in Ben & Hughes as relief. Then about midway through the 2nd, I can see Thabo coming in for Hughes.
Not that I really WANT Kirk to start, but I don’t see any reason why Vinny won’t start him. The signs seem to be pointing in that direction anyway.
If any one of our guards avgs over 30 mpg, I’ll be shocked.
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 8, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
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The averages matter less to me
than the per-game minutes. Although it might be Boylan-esque, I think VDN is going to be playing the hot hand in a game-by-game basis, and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing as long as he’s not jerking around the starting lineup too much. Always start the same two guys. Always bring the next guys off the bench in the same order, unless your hand is forced by a foul situation. If the reserves are playing well, they get more burn that game, i.e. if Ben gets hot and isn’t giving up tons on defense, keep him in and rest him when he needs it. Keep giving Hughes a shot every couple games (to placate him), but yank him quickly if he’s sucking. Keep Rose in for developmental purposes regardless of whether he’s sucking, and keep his per-game minutes pretty consistent. Maybe Hughes goes three games where he plays 5 mins of event-free basketball, and then gets “hot” one game and plays 15-20. I’m fine with that, mostly because I fully expect those 15-20 minute stretches to be few and far between, making it a non-issue. They might inflate his “average” minutes, but in most games he won’t be in for any appreciable time (or maybe not at all).
by arjoseph on
Oct 8, 2008 11:06 AM CDT
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I don't think it will placate Hughes
hopefully Paxson can identify and see this problem before it occurs.
management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Oct 8, 2008 11:09 AM CDT
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I totally agree with you Matt.
Hughes said last year that he wanted to start, he just needed a training camp to get acclimated with the team and show them what he could do. There is no way he is happy with 5-20 mins.
by Unrealcity on
Oct 9, 2008 3:31 AM CDT
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i see where you're going and I agree
Hughes actually did have two or three games last season where he played decently. That’s not to say what he did last season warrants him any minutes this season, but it just points to your statement that he might get hot every once and awhile. Most NBA players do.
The combination of Hughes and Ben confused me last year. Not because they were in at the same time, but more so the results of it. A few times they looked decent together and did a good job feeding off one another. Other times you could almost see the shooting/scoring competition unfold as it was happening.
It’ll be interesting to see what kinds of sub patterns VDN uses as the season goes on.
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 8, 2008 11:23 AM CDT
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Even in that scenario...
…5, 5, 5, 20, he’s averaging less than 8 1/2 mpg. That’s not ideal, but knowing all too well about entitlement minutes, I could live w/ that. For awhile anyway.
by tyger1147 on
Oct 8, 2008 11:24 AM CDT
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KC's article
also says the Bulls are appearing at Water Tower today from 3:30-4:30 – is this like an autograph session or just a photo shoot? Water Tower is a quick walk from my office so it’d be worth it to go down there – I doubt there will be a huge crowd on this gloomy day. Anyone know any more details?
"The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote: 'A flute with no holes is not a flute, And a doughnut with no hole is a Danish.' He was a funny guy."
by Ugh It Live! on
Oct 8, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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just be careful
last time JoJo met Thabo, he seemed to get the better of him with some vicious silly string
I vote for Thomas to play, play more and play regularly.-Sam Smith
by tyrus4prez on
Oct 8, 2008 11:59 AM CDT
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::sigh::
good old days of blogabull. By which I mean agrammatical, raving, unreadable days of blogabull.
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
Oct 8, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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Just wait until a game thread is started.
Crazies always turn out for that.
Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.
by cranscape on
Oct 8, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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Game threads, for me, are just a test
for how much noise my brain can effectively filter. Summer league: good God. I had no idea how many lurkers were out there. It’s like when you flip on the lights in the kitchen, and dozens of roaches skitter off. After that you know they’re always there.
::shudder::
The poster formerly known as Freethefro.
by MPG on
Oct 9, 2008 9:56 AM CDT
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the worst was right after the bulls won the lottery
those people were scary!
by Jaina on
Oct 9, 2008 11:12 AM CDT
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Not only scary
but wrong too. Many of them said Kirk would be gone by this season.
by sue369 on
Oct 9, 2008 2:00 PM CDT
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i have to admit
i was in the camp who thought kirk would probably go, but the more i thought about it the more it made sense to keep him around at least right now, especially with gordon currently only on for one more season. no one else can spell rose while he needs rest. in reality i think we’d need to get rid of hinrich and noc for a true backup pg and a decent c. i don’t really like hinrich in the starting 2 guard role but it’s selling him short to say he should backup rose, since if he bounces back he’s certainly a starting caliber pg.
by Jaina on
Oct 9, 2008 2:28 PM CDT
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Well, they were basically right.
But you can thank BG for wanting more than $50 mil. Otherwise, Kirk was as good as gone and even Pax has almost said as much.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 9, 2008 3:11 PM CDT
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more than $58 mil or whatever it was***
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 9, 2008 3:11 PM CDT
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bingo
At first I thought it was a slip of the tongue by Pax…but he’s let it slip at least 2-3 times that Kirk had one foot out the door.
Kirk should buy BG dinner after every win this season for helping him stay on the team.
by NormVanBeer on
Oct 9, 2008 3:52 PM CDT
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Speaking of D Rose . .
Dude is just nasty on the new 2K9
by Option27 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:05 PM CDT
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INDEED
Funny also how of the top 3 rookies, he has the lowest overall. But man they guy can get to the rim at will, and i love watching people try to stop him and bounce off his power, or when they do halfcourt traps and try to drive him out of bounds he just punches right through the guy and gets to the rim. Or his hangtime when passing at the last second while attacking the rim.
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Oct 8, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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You guys should have your own 2K9 post...or something
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 6:07 PM CDT
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But he is!
Rose is really fast. And can layup over and around … everybody?
Gordon is AWFUL in 2k9, though. As is TT. Hopefully they adjust upwards after the season starts and the Bulls rock the house [which they will, amirite? Yeah?].
by Prevenge on
Oct 8, 2008 11:14 PM CDT
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Gordon aint that bad
The boy can flat out shoot, and this year its even easier. Plus they actually have a command to do his floater, which is a thing of beauty. The only problem is i get blocked by any shooting guard over 6’5. I use the default kirk/rose backcourt, and have gordon come off the bench. My bro is a gordon fan so had gordon start, but got rejected by brandon rush like 4 times in the first quarter and gordon went ice cold. He couldnt score well with gordon at all, so he used kirk instead mainly because even though kirk couldnt shoot over rush either, he could at least guard him….sound familiar?
On Behalf of Sue, Wjb, Bullshooter, and all the other Hinrich fans...Ill keep the Hinrich Hope coming...There will be light....
by piccolomair on
Oct 9, 2008 4:48 PM CDT
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Point GOD!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO
This is great news. I did about two or three fist pumps when I read this story and let out an audible “YEAH!”
by fundamentallysound on
Oct 8, 2008 12:08 PM CDT
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This is a felicitous development.
It’s almost exactly what I was hoping to hear. A number one overall draft pick should immediately start.
I really believe that Rose will alter the entire complexion of the Bulls’ offense, allowing us to creep into the playoffs as a dangerous 6, 7, or 8 seed.
LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!
by 1958ChiTown on
Oct 8, 2008 12:11 PM CDT
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He already has altered the entire complexion of the Bulls' offense
I doubt VDN would be pushing screen and roll as much without Rose.
by messwiththebull on
Oct 8, 2008 12:22 PM CDT
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He mentioned that if we took Beasley, they could screen and roll anywhere on the court with him.
Seems like screen and roll is his thing. Can’t wait to see Derrick dominate with it.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:24 PM CDT
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It's what Phoenix ran
just about anytime they had to set up an offense.
High screens, weave screens, high post screens.
by NBA Observer on
Oct 8, 2008 2:23 PM CDT
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And it's awesome.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 2:31 PM CDT
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Oh yeah, props to KC
for finally giving us some good info and some real quotes.
When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer
by Illini15 on
Oct 8, 2008 12:27 PM CDT
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I'm sick of sitting here waiting to see the man play
I need to get off my ass
by Option27 on
Oct 8, 2008 2:26 PM CDT
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There's so much
wrong with this picture.
by sue369 on
Oct 8, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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I'm watching Bucks vs Pistons right now
I really do miss Skiles.
He was a fun one
by Option27 on
Oct 8, 2008 6:54 PM CDT
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Derrick Rose will not disappoint
This offseason has set the table nicely for a big rookie season. His mediocre summer league performance shifted the media’s ROY talk to Oden and Beasley and Mayo and Gasol – basically everybody but him.
It’s the same sort of scenario from Rose’s freshman year, where everyone was talking about Mayo and Kevin Love and all things Tyler Hansbrough, allowing Rose to steadily develop his game without much fanfare.
by YaoPau on
Oct 8, 2008 9:09 PM CDT
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