if this is our starting lineup after the couple weeks, then I think you can start to get pissed. But, come on, I think its a little early to complain before we’ve even lost a game. That said, I disagree with the lineup, and I hope VDN knows what he’s doing.

Now, if only Del Negro will commit to starting Thomas and Noah…we could have a full fledged youth movement.

the Skiles regime of failing to develop players. I remember when the Bulls drafted Thabo, and there was genuine excitement in the fanbase—here was a natural athlete, 6’7, with ball-handling who wanted to play defense. And he just became such a jittery quivering useless mess under the Skiles regime.

It wouldn’t be that bad if Thabo had developed at all within the last year. But Hinrich and Gordon are both better than Thabo. Maybe VDN wants the playoff-experienced veteran guys to come in off the bench together.

or are they convincing themselves & the fans that they are a 33 win team??? All this talk of a rebuilding year, this is still the same team that won 49 games 2 years ago and then had a horrible year. It just seems like they are making excuses for not winning, at least come off like you plan to win. Pax & VDN keep talking how they dont expect to win and they want leadership from the vets

Attitude reflects leadership

I usually really enjoy reading your front page posts, but this one comes off as way over-the-top and absurdly angry. How about we see what happens after at least one regular season game before we start flying off the handle?

“When he’s on the floor, he wants a lot of the ballhandling responsibilities,” Hinrich said.

Hope thats a joke cuz its a retarded analysis. Yeah Kirk should start but its probably a sign that there gonna get rid of him..so might as well push Thabo along. Dont u think? I mean..that would be common sense..

or vdn is gonna be hearing it from me all night tomorrow.

As long as Gordon gets more minutes. My ideal rotation for the first couple of weeks would be something along these lines:

Rose – 33 mins
Gordon – 33 mins
Thabo – 15 mins
Kirk – 15 mins

After watching the preseason, I don’t think Kirk fits in at the 2-guard spot AT ALL. I’d like to see his minutes limited to backing up the point, which is nice in that it opens up minutes for Gordon at the 2.

Hopefully.

Everyone has already been given the chance to start except for Thabo. Gutsy move by VDN if it’s really true. Who knows…it might work. We might see the Thabo that helped slow down Wade during the last time the Bulls made the playoffs.

In a defense point of view, of course. At least for this game against the Bucks. We all know that Reed is a good shooter. So, why not try to slow him down a little bit with Thabo and then launch BG?

Like we say here in Portugal, you guys are making a storm in a glass of water. Let’s see what happens in this game firts. If we suck, we will have a lot of games to criticize VDN options…

that it would come down to Thabo and Gordon at SG. Hinrich is not a SG just like Gordon is not a PG. This was especially clear to me after Hughes went down. Thabo and Gordon will be splitting minutes with Gordon playing the scoring role.

is a truly dreadful reason to start Thabo, who can’t shoot, with Rose who can’t shoot.

In part Thabo played better because he was playing with Kirk, who was shooting very well. Putting him next to Rose, and Deng, who also has no three point shot, is giving defenses an invitation to collapse on Rose when he drives, and taking away a huge weapon (a good shooter) he ought to have.

The real stupidity of starting Thabo has nothing, really, to do with Gordon or Kirk and everything to do with Rose. Simply put, we’re taking our rookie franchise and making his life as difficult as fucking possible. It makes me think this organization has learned absolutely nothing over the last several years.

Want to “develop Thabo”. Great. Don’t do it as Rose’s expense. Because in the grand scheme of things, Rose is the franchise and Thabo can take a long walk off a short pier.

Thabo can defend and he shot 33% from 3 last year and Kirk shot 35%. I think that Thabo’s not picking up 3 fouls in the first 10 minutes and putting the other team in the bonus might help make up for any offensive difference between the two.

Ideally I think Gordon starts next week, but it sends a pretty bad message if a guy that sat out the preseason and sat out a large number of practices suddenly is the starter.

If Thabo plays 30 minutes next to Rose tonight then I’m gonna be right there bitching like everyone else, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. I think Thabo starts and plays the first 5 minutes with Rose and then Gordon is in.

 Hinrich just got canned folks, that’s the real story. Hinrich is prolly gonna get 5-10 minutes in the 2nd quarter and 5-15 in the 2nd half, can’t complain much about that.

Rose/Hinrich one that I was sure Vinny would have gone with. Hinrich will most likely still get plenty of playing time with Gordon while playing his natural position of pg. Gordon sat most of the preseason nursing minor injuries, why should he start? If Gordon is productive, he’ll get minutes.

“let’s wait and see” response to Vinny’s decision. Thabo STUNK in the preseason, period. There was nothing he did well. Were Matt, cranscrape, and myself the only ones who noticed that??

His ONE decent game, it took him OT & 50+ minutes in order to accumulate his stats. Blah.

As much as Kirk sucks at SG, I’d rather have him starting over Thabo. At least Kirk can hit a shot (when he’s not afraid to shoot it). Thabo has no offensive know-how and is garbage.

Also, why are people acting like he’s this stellar lock-down defender? He’s not. He’s decent because he has long arms. He still struggles to stay in front of his man, and like the rest of the team, he’s out of position a lot.

This is a bad decision. This gives Rose absolutely NO help in the backcourt, other than he now doesn’t have to guard the tall guards, whoop-dee-doo. This isn’t even about Ben starting, but how about, I don’t know, starting your BEST guy?? Ever think of that? Vinny is starting to annoy me more and more.

It’s ‘likely’ Rose/Hinrich/Deng/Thomas/Gooden, with Thabo and Gray “getting consideration” (yet another report that makes them sound clueless, heh)

but McGraw doesn’t live under Pax’s desk like KC does, so…

Did you think BG was going to start after sitting out most of the preseason? There was no chance.

After ripping Kirk for the better part of the last year, did you want him to start? You don’t really make a case for that either.

Have we been griping about a short backcourt and an inefficient defense for a long, long time? Well, why don’t we take a chance on starting the lottery pick in the build of Scottie Pippen who locks down on D and can finish the fast break. Let’s see what we have, and if the answer is nothing, then he’s gone and there’s one less guard to worry about. But if he flirts with a triple double again like he did against the very same team last week, we might be pleasantly surprised….

When Ben Gordon learns to play defense, he can be a starter. Right now, he’s basically Jamal Crawford with better shot selection.

I hope the MyBulls email w/ projected starters proves correct. I never really paid attention to these last year because everything was always such a mess, how often do these actually pan out? Is this like from VDN/Skiles’ whiteboard or just plain ole’ speculation?

Probable Bulls Starters | Roster and Statistics

Guard 1 Derrick Rose 6-3 | 190
Guard 2 Thabo Sefolosha 6-7 | 215
Forward 9 Luol Deng 6-9 | 220
Forward 24 Tyrus Thomas 6-9 | 215
Center 90 Drew Gooden 6-10 | 250

Probable Bucks Starters | Roster and Statistics

Guard 13 Luke Ridnour 6-2 | 175
Guard 22 Michael Redd 6-6 | 215
Forward 24 Richard Jefferson 6-7 | 225
Forward 31 Charlie Villanueva 6-11 | 232
Center 6 Andrew Bogut 7-0 | 260

Clearly Kirk on the 2nd unit is better for his career, he’s a PG and loves being one, let him excel in his accepted position. Now or never for Thabo! Gordon, unquestionably in Bulls longer range plans?

Therefore, Kirk should be traded for his benefit and also the Bulls. Really no need to keep him and limit his growth as a starter.

If we lose Gordon so be it! Paxson is an idiot, unless he somehow keeps Gordon or brings back great value for either Kirk or Gordon. Also Paxson could save face by resigning Gordon and helping him accept a 3rd guard role or maybe even the starting shooting guard. For some reason, I prefer the 3rd guard role, but I’m not assuming Thabo is the answer?

Why I like starting Thabo to open the season.

VinPaxDorf didn’t expect Derrick Rose to be this good this fast. He clearly exceeded expectations against NBA starters. Rose did what we expected him to do in areas that will improve. Mainly in the turnovers and by extension the poor passing as he grows accustomed to teammates. The areas where Rose did exceed expectations were stunning. Rose was able to beat Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and Dirk Nowitzki with dribble penetration. Rose tore up Randy Foye. These are the greatest defenders, but what Rose showed us was that he is able, right now, to carve up an NBA defense by himself and with a simple screen. Rose will be in control of the car keys.

You start Thabo Sefalosha to protect Derrick Rose. Allow Rose to guard the point . Make Thabo guard the scoring threats. We open the season with the Bucks, @Celtics, Grizz, @Magic, and @Cavs. None of these teams will threaten us from the PG position. The real threats will come from the SG and SF position. Redd, Jefferson; Allen, Pierce; Mayo, Gay; Turkoglu, Lewis; Wally,Lebron. That’s 6 All Stars, 1 borderline star, 2 up and comers, and one gay whose name I can’t spell.

This is a 5 game stretch to test a new theory of winning. I haven’t seen Vinny delcare this, but this is what I think he’s doing.

1) Bring the pressure early from the back court with the combo of Rose and Thabo.
2) Carry the defense with pogo stick legs in the front court with Thomas. Back this up with lateral speed from Deng and Gooden.
3) After running early, go to the bench where your tempo slows but your consistently improves. The bench lineup would be Hinrich, Gordon, Noc, Noah, and Gray.

You will get Rose some early rest and allow Kirk to run the point. He’s better there than as the starting SG or the backup SG. You’ll get Gordon’s scoring to help Kirk set up the show. You won’t give up the interior defense with Noah at PF and Gray at Center. You’ll retain the shooting and perimeter threat with Gordon and Nocioni.

The good news is this just might work. The bad news is this is the NBA and not Europe. The contracts in the NBA don’t comply with the way the European leagues coach and play the game. VinPaxDorf will have to handle minute delegation very closely. If you get the players to buy into the strategy then you’ll be OK. That’s very hard to do when you’re best scoring threat is playing for his next contract because you didn’t sign him to the extension he deserves.

In the preseason we saw some very good stretches of play as well as some very bad stretches. We were down 20 to the Mavs in both games. I think most BABers saw this as a lack of scoring options, but the coaches see it as a lack of defense.

This could make Vinny look either great or terrible, but I do like the concept of making our opponents shuffle their strategy to beat us. The Celtic game will be interesting. It’s not ring night, but it’s on national TV.

Rose
Thabo
Debg
Thomas
Gooden

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/2008/10/del-negro-names.html

make it the second team…Hinrich would play decent D on Rose and 1st team has no scoring punch….BG would torch the first team…….
now how does
Rose
Gordon
Deng
Thomas
Gooden
this should be our starting lineup for todays game

I read a bunch of things that sort of kept repeating, so instead of replying to just one person ill list my comments on some of the topics here as a stand alone

1st: Thabo should not start, he has the potential to be a good role player, that is all. Three years of shooting practice will only make him a decent shooter. If the bulls are starting him it may be for his defense on Redd…not saying it justifies him starting though.

2nd: I think alot of people are seeing kirks quote in the worst way possible. Im thinking the question was about what his role is on the team when he is playing with rose and he basically stated that its the same as it always is except rose handles most of the ball handling responsiblities. Want to make fun of him for basically claiming he is a backup pg on the floor with the main pg (meaning no sg?) thats fine, it makes sense. Taking his quote to be an anti d.rose quote though is just reading way too much into the quote.

3rd: Yes kirk was playing pg in the bucks preseason game…NOW WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HIS SHOOTING?? Most of his points came from kickouts anyway. In fact on several occasions when kirk scored, thabo brought the ball up (where do you think some of thabos assits came from?). Again not justifying that kirk is a great sg or anything, but cmon, saying that his sliding over to pg from sg (or vice versa) affects his shooting is retarded. And yea, having luke ridnaur guarding you probably is alot better than having a redd guard you, but thats more defensive matchup not position. Jeez.

Someone needs to recreate that thread of good vibes that existed last year. Was it Ozzie that started that thread?

we WILL be amazing if Vinny realizes a consistant lineup is better and BG and Thomas needs to be in it

I doubt the team will be coached well. Tyrus Thomas should have a shooting coach, should practice post moves for a few hours a day, and be the starting PF. His numbers would make Aldridge look like a chump, and the Bulls would look a lot smarter.

I wanted a Rose/Sefolosha back court the whole time no matter how badly Thabo played in the preseason. I know what he can do just from seeing him last year in the starting role.

I’m just more worried about the front court starters.

I’m with Matt on that one. If I hear that the man in the middle is from Pittsburgh, I just might shed a tear

Michael Ruffin, can start in the back court, and we’ll still win!

All that matters this season is getting Rose experience as quickly as possible. Thabo helps to achieve this the most by staying out of Rose’s way more than Hughes, Gordan, or Kirk. All Thabo needs to do is run the floor and play defense. Gordan is gonna shoot whenever he touches the ball this year and he doesnt play defense. Hughes can’t work with superstars ( see the Cavs), and Kirk needs the ball in his hands 14secs of each possession.