Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

John Jackson's been converted, and Ben Gordon update

John Jackson:

About my suggestion a week ago that perhaps the Bulls should consider starting Kirk Hinrich and Larry Hughes in the backcourt and bringing rookie Derrick Rose off the bench at the start of the regular season:

Never mind.

With a breakout performance in leading a massive fourth-quarter rally in the Bulls' 109-103 victory over the Dallas Mavericks on Tuesday night, Rose showed he's ready -- both physically and mentally -- to lead the team from the start.

...

It won't be long before Rose, a 6-3 point guard, is the Bulls' best player. It has become obvious already that he's their most talented player.

Meanwhile, after it had been suggested Gordon would be available going forward, he did not play Tuesday night:

The guard told athletic trainer Fred Tedeschi after participating in the morning shoot- around that his jammed right big toe felt good and he wanted to play.

The problem is Gordon still isn't totally confident his toe can handle back-to-back games. So with a Wednesday game in Minneapolis, Del Negro made Gordon's decision for him.

"It was my call," Del Negro said. "He wanted to play. But he's still having some irritation there. We want to be cautious because we have time here to heal him up. I'd rather do that then he goes out and he's sore for a couple of days.

"We'll re-evaluate it [Wednesday] and see how he feels. But maybe he won't play [Wednesday] either."

What will be really interesting is if it's determined that Larry Hughes can't handle back-to-backs either, and he sits while Gordon plays. The only game Gordon's played so far is when Hughes didn't.

If Gordon's being extra-careful about this toe injury, it may come back to bite him. VDN's (understandably) trying to emphasize the importance of preseason and practice, and will use Ben's absence as reason to not put him in the starting lineup.

To the money quote, from VDN:

"It would be a guess on your part to try to figure out what's going to happen opening night. The lineup might change periodically throughout the season. It's who's playing well and who's playing hard and what lineups work best together. That has been hard to figure out from the standpoint of our injuries and absences."

Sure, maybe with respect to Gordon it's been hard. But has it been difficult to figure out that Rose should start ahead of Larry Hughes? Even if you wanted to give the guy a clean slate (which shouldn't be the case, the past few seasons is useful evidence), Hughes has been completely awful in the time he's been given.

Comment 125 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

a key quote

from the Gordon story was missed.

“He wants me to stay off it until it gets 100 percent, I guess,” Gordon said. “I only played one game. I felt good in that game. I don’t feel I’m in horrible shape. But, obviously, you want to get out there and play.”

To me, that sounds like he wants to play. I honestly think his injury was used as an excuse last night so VDN wouldn’t have to worry about playing 5 guards. I don’t get the sense that he’s being extra careful now, it sounds like he’s ready.

It will be interesting to see if he plays tonight, and if so, if Hughes doesn’t.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions  

but it also says

“Gordon still isn’t totally confident his toe can handle back-to-back games.” so i guess vinny decided he def wanted him to play tonight instead and didn’t want to risk it.

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's kinda my point

at this current time it sounds like it’s VINNY who is being the “extra careful” one, not Gordon.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

well right

guess the reason i pointed it out is that it says gordon is the one who isn’t sure about back-to-back games. i think it was def vinny being extra careful, but that there would be a possibility that gordon also wouldn’t be comfortable playing back to back.

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's true

I guess it just sounds a bit conflicting to me…on one hand Gordon is saying that he wants to get in there and play but on the other hand it’s being reported that he’s not confident in playing back-to-back games. But also at the same time Vinny is complaining that he doesn’t have guys playing due to absences or injuries…but he shouldn’t complain if HE’S the one holding one of the players out. They all need to get on the same page.

I guess there’s no real reason to do back-to-back in the preseason if you don’t need to…might as well wait until the regular season

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw that quote about the back-to-backs,

but I thought it would make more sense to play him on the front end and see how he feels on day two. Since nothing counts yet except the guys getting time in and seeing who plays best together, is there a point to making sure BG feels good enough to play tonight because he didn’t play last night?

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Oct 22, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah, i don't know why

maybe he really wanted to have him available for this game for some reason. or for those theories below that maybe he and rose will get to start together tonight.

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose, but it still seems rather odd

Ben, we want to start you with Derrick, but Derrick won’t be starting so we’re not going to play you at all. What, you could just come off the bench at the same time he does? Interesting, but… no. Because then you might not feel like playing the next night. Better you not play at all tonight, but don’t worry because we know how essential it is to get you in games and we do have a whole two more left…

Man-slave, bring me my PB&J!

by wjb1492 on Oct 22, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

lol

i never said it made any sense. :D

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe Vinny is saying

“If you don’t want to practice like everyone else over a small injury then you are not going to play in a regular game”

by J Theory on Oct 22, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

This may be true

VDN just doesn’t want the hassle of having both Gordon and Hughes if it can be reasonably avoided.

So why is Hughes still here again?

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully

Hughes can play only once every 83 regular season games, which means we won’t see him until next year….since he played our last game of the season last year I believe.

by majoyenrac on Oct 22, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait, wait, wait... I thought Gordon was faking.

How can VDN keep him out if it’s all just a “mental” injury to Gordon?

by tyger1147 on Oct 22, 2008 8:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice move by VDN

If Negro had any doubts about whether Gordon was sincere, this is a great way to make the point. It’s like when your kid says he’s too sick to go to school. You say, we’ll, ok, if you’re that sick, we better take you to the doctor. “No, I’m not THAT sick! I don’t want a shot!”

I’m not saying Gordon wasfaking it!
I’m just saying that VDN’s strategy was can’t lose. If Gordon’s really hurt, it’s the right thing to be cautious with him. If Gordon’s not really hurt, it changes the dynamic by exerting his authority as coach.

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

It will be telling

if Hughes has a hurt knuckles again and can’t play.

Everything I post is speculation. I have no insider information nor ideas deemed concrete enough by those who are self-elected to regulate post content.

by cranscape on Oct 22, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

More like hurt feelings.

VDN: “Larry, are you all right? What’s wrong, buddy?”
HUGHES: “It’s my um…It’s my knuckles.” sniffle

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Oct 22, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm worried that VDN has no idea as to who should start

Some lineups I saw that I thought looked effective…

Rose/Thabo/Noc/Thomas/Noah

Gordon/Hinrich/Deng/Thomas/Noah or Gooden

Some lineups that only should be used in mop up duties…

Hughes/anyone else.

by RogersPark Kris on Oct 22, 2008 9:22 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

I have a feeling we'll be seeing Rose/BG starting backcourt tonight

Given that VDN knew he wasn’t going to start Rose last night and that he needed to hold out BG either last night or tonight, seems to me he was waiting to play BG w/ Rose tonight to see how they look starting together.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Oct 22, 2008 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

hope this is true

that’s definitely what i would do, i want to see them start together. i haven’t gotten to see them play together yet, i couldn’t find a feed for fri’s game.

by Jaina on Oct 22, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was thinking this too...

Del Negro knew that Rose would not be starting last night and BG would not be available to play in back to back situations, so he held him out of last night’s game to start him next to Rose…it makes sense.

Now if he will only start Noah instead of Gooden.

"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson

by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 22, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Could it be

there is a trade coming and BG is involved in the trade? Maybe why he is not playing.

by sue369 on Oct 22, 2008 10:16 AM CDT reply actions  

i doubt it

Both Sam and KC were on CTL this week and they both mentioned there is no splash deal in the works involving anyone.

Also, it would make more sense for Ben to be playing than not to be playing…gets his value up.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

in a word...

no.

he cant be traded until january, right?

by robingoodfellow on Oct 22, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope it's that

Gordon and Rose look incredible together and VDN wants to wait to surprise teams a bit in the start of the season to snatch a few early wins for our confidence.

Of course that’s the most Homer post I’ve ever made….but it would be nice :).

by majoyenrac on Oct 22, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or maybe they're showcasing Kirk by starting him next to Hughes

“He’s not that great, but, hey, at least he doesn’t look as bad as that other guy”

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Oct 22, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

haha, probably a good point

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 22, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

sue369 and other Kirk fans,

I personally see a completely different person out there in Kirk than last year. There’s actual pep in his step, he’s actually looking to pass a lot more, he’s getting really nice lift and arc on his shot.

The fact that he may be the Bulls’ best suited piece for trading is more a statement about how shortsighted the construction of this roster has been, and the fact that not a lot of other guys have value as trade bait.

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Oct 22, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

The fact is this roster is poorly constructed.

I expect only three or four players from this roster to be with the team in season three of the Derrick Rose era. So in sense, everyone is being showcased in one way or another…but, these trades are not happening this week. It will be a process.

"The whole leverage thing, it's a difficult thing to gauge" -Paxson

by Dionysus2.0 on Oct 22, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think I finally agree with you :-)

Well said. I have a feeling you’re right. From here on out the team has to be constructed from Derrick and then outward.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

that means

we need to surround him with shooters and finishers. Which is why, with the roster as it is now, Tyrus NEEDS to get drastically better at finishing; Deng needs to step up with his supposedly ‘money’ mid range j and slashing/finishing moves; and Gordon needs to play big minutes and shoot a high percentage from downtown.
  
And for the future, if none of the above happens, Pax needs to get guys in here that can fill those roles.

by kig on Oct 22, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

We've got the first two

Gordon and Noc are shooters
Deng and (supposedly) Thabo are finishers
Who guards the lane? Noah and Tyrus might be in a year or two. They’re investments, not ready to roll products.

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

i wouldn't put Deng and Thabo

in the category of finisher. I’m thinking more along the lines of 2010 big guys like Amare, Bosh, Boozer (questionable).

by kig on Oct 22, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I believe a very large mistake in Paxson thinking

is outlined in all 1-way position player skills, and the 2-way player skills aren’t on the court at the same time. It’s ok for a posiition or two, but 5 out of the 5 players. Rose probably is a complete player, so now … 4 out of 5 players.
Deng and Tyrus … this is the year to determine for sure if they are also effective 2 way players.

by exult463 on Oct 22, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree w/ the "process"

It just should have started already. Either Hinrich or Nocioni or Hughes should have been gone. In that order, imo. (because of trade value, rumored interest, contract value, etc.)

by tyger1147 on Oct 22, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

does it work

if they showcase the suck?

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

I was waiting for someone to make this point!

by exult463 on Oct 22, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haha--nice!

"It’d be ridiculous to hate someone for simply what they say in a sports blog. But I greatly dislike every syllable of your angst-filled, smarmy, nondescript, half-assed, elitist-garbage responses." –Rogerspark Kris

by bullhockey on Oct 22, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I do agree

that he’s certainly not making this easy on Vinny. Maybe Pax needs to suck it up and ‘lose’ a deal to simply get one done.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd just like to see a deal

to know that Pax is still alive. What does he do all day anyways?

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

sends text messages to KC

telling him not to write too much praising Rose. Then mutters ‘process’ a lot. Strokes goatee…

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Pax can't get way with saying

shit like “Rose is young, therefor we don’t want to put too much pressure on him” anymore.

by RogersPark Kris on Oct 22, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

KC must not

be listening then because on CTL the other night KC said Rose must start. Let him work through his mistakes.

by sue369 on Oct 22, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

God... when K.C. gets it before Paxson...

…we might be in for it…………………….

by tyger1147 on Oct 22, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

come on tyger1147

most everyone gets it before Paxs..

Based on statements and decisions made by Paxson I wouldn’t believe he even works in basketball..

I’d say maybe a mortgage loan specialist giving out adjustable no income verification 500k home loans to every worker at Denny’s or smth!

by exult463 on Oct 22, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

he sends Vinny

those same text messages. Last night’s post-game press interview, VDN says nothing is “set in stone” as far as who starts. HUH?

If nothing else, Rose should be declared the starting PG right now.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

If VDN doesn't start Rose from now on

Then he’s clinically insane. Doesn’t he want to win games since, you know, he’s the head coach?

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a great point about "losing a deal", he's just been so tentative about evrything

he does that he’s backing himself in these corners with the roster. He really does need to get something done and not be overly concerned with the getting taken a little.

by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 22, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fear of 'losing' a deal sure hasn't seemed to stop the Bulls before

cough, cough… Tyson… cough… JR… cough… Veeeektor…

The biggest issue seems to me that Pax (or Reinsdorf or Jim Paxson or Gar Foreman, or whomever it is that hearts him) still hasn’t made his peace with the fact Kirk really needs to go.

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

KC sez:

“I’m just reacting to things now instead of thinking,” Rose said. “I’m more comfortable in the offense. I love knowing my coach believes in me.”

That belief prompted Vinny Del Negro to stop calling plays and merely hand the car keys to the NBA draft’s No. 1 overall pick.

“We just opened the floor for him,” Del Negro said. “He’s so athletic and can break guys down off the dribble. We just said run the team and have players run the lanes and have some fun.”

Works for me. Heh.

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions  

From:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-22-bulls-bits-chicagooct22,0,569376.story

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I love it;

let the kid run the show offensively if he shows he can handle it. Where VDN needs to be more demanding, and take control more, is in handling the Bulls defense. Last night, as in every previous night, they got torched.

This team will be incredibly exciting – which is more than enough for me in year one – if they just give Rose the ball, weapons (Gordon, Deng, Tyrus, Noce), and say “go to it.” But we won’t start winning until we start exerting more effort, and communicating better, on the defensive end. And the developing defensive cohesiveness, to my way of thinking, falls on Vinny.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 22, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

as much as I hate to admit it

stinkin Rosenbloom was right yesterday:

But here’s what I don’t get: Why is Del Negro worried about an offensive playbook? I mean, the guy came from Phoenix, where the playbook was pretty much run and Steve Nash will find you.

Just tell Rose to get the ball to whoever’s open, then yank guys who fail to get back on defense. This coaching thing can be real simple for a coach who has never coached before.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions  

The quote I posted above you pretty much says that VDN was giving the rock to Rose and telling him to create.

I mean how much more clear can this be?

That belief prompted Vinny Del Negro to stop calling plays and merely hand the car keys to the NBA draft’s No. 1 overall pick.
"We just opened the floor for him," Del Negro said. "He’s so athletic and can break guys down off the dribble. We just said run the team and have players run the lanes and have some fun."

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

uhh it's pretty clear to me

I’m not sure I get your beef. I was just posting was Rosenbloom said, because he usually says dumb, nonsensical things…but his blog yesterday was dead on. It was just ironic because it was posted was before last night’s game happened.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I wasn't trying to come off like that.

I agree with you 100% here :)

When I watch NBA games I often call the fouls before the referees do. Sometimes it’s a gift. Most of the time it's troublesome. - NBA Observer

by Illini15 on Oct 22, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

But that whole "Nash did everything" isn't exactly true

D’Antoni designed tons of plays for their offense, having Nash just allowed them to be executed without fail, and also gave them an extra edge of improvisation. And that’s Nash….we have a rookie PG. I’m all for giving him freedom to operate, but you still have to give him some kind of offensive structure, not every game is going to give him the chance to lead some kind of herky-jerky comeback.

Del Negro should be worried about having on offensive philosophy, but he should be panicking and losing hair and weight over his defense moreso.

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 22, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

So true

D’Antoni ran an offense. The fast break and transition stuff was more suited to Nash calling the plays which he did.

I don’t have any numbers, but anytime the Suns were inbounding the ball and the opponent actually played defense the Suns were running the D’Antoni offense.

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Defensively, you can't polish a turd.

To get good defensively, you’re gonna need a solid set of defenders up front. Our young bigs are probably a year or two away from giving us that. Our veteran big is… not so good defensively.

How’s about Kirk for Rasho Nestorovic and maybe a pick?

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gooden

has looked pretty horrible defensively the last 3 games…granted, he’s been playing bigger and stronger guys, but still. If he gets out-muscled that’s one thing, but he shouldn’t be getting out-worked, or out-thought on the court. He’s looked a complete mess on defense.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's how his career's been

and since he’s 27 I don’t see it changing.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok he's not the best defender but he's by FAR the best and most complete offensive big

His numbers in the preseason are 19pts/40 on 58%fg. He is a valuable player, just shouldn’t be playing center a ton. I prefer to see him play more with Noah instead of Tyrus. Essentially play Tyrus/Gray together and Noah/Gooden.

by CJ Bulls on Oct 22, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

they have TJ Ford

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

maybe they could use Noc? :)

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

With Rose, the Bulls don't need a $10M back up PG

With Ford, the Pacers may be in desperate need of one. Though, they also have Jack, so forget it.

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Oct 22, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

And if they don't have a suitor for Tinsley, they're also stuck with an unwanted, overpaid back-up PG

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 22, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still say. Try and convince Denver to do

Nene, Atkins, and Hunter for Hinrich, Gooden, plus Simmons or whoever else to balance things out.

by Scotter on Oct 22, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

here's rose's magical night from yesterday

he looked really good. its good to see him finish at the basket this game. from what i saw in the other pre-season games, he was getting to the basket but they just werent going down. and is it just me or did noah actually set some usable screens?

It aint easy bein' Piatkowski

by Yibs on Oct 22, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions  

He did.

(Noah with the screens. Gray sets some good ones too…. ;) Think Tyrus needs some work)

by BAB-Bass on Oct 22, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know I have been harping on the same theme for months now,

but I’ll say once again that a failure to start Rose this season should result in termination of VDN and Paxson, especially if Rose’s minutes are being shifted to Hughes.

That may sound brash and reactionary, but it truly isn’t.

You start Rose. Some nights, he’ll play like a virtuouso. Other nights, he’ll play like a neophyte rookie. Maybe you sneak into the playoffs, maybe you don’t. However, by the end of the season, you will likely have the “franchise player” the Bulls have been seeking for a decade.

If you don’t start Rose this season, you thwart his development, undermine his confidence, foster claims that he is a “bust,” and sabotage the team’s future.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Oct 22, 2008 12:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Sound familiar?
If you don’t start Rose this season, you thwart his development, undermine his confidence, foster claims that he is a "bust," and sabotage the team’s future.

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Oct 22, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand, but let's chill a bit about when Rose starts

The hysteria about this baffles me. Am I the only one who could care less? Who thinks whether Rose starts on opening night will have virtually no effect on his long-term development, no effect on the Bulls’ overall season, no effect on how well the team does the first month, the first week, and probably no effect on anything other than that game (if at all). I’ve seen other things this preseason: we still kinda suck. Interior defense, transition defense, overall defense, overall offense, Luol’s aggressiveness, Kirk’s confidence and shooting, Thabo’s development, and probably umpteen other things are far more of a concern to me than whether Rose is a starter in the first game (or even during the first week, or first several weeks). I know worry about any of these doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive, but come on. This isn’t a headband rule. Even Pax didn’t guarantee they’d stick to a certain policy for all 82 games. He had to say those things months ago about a 19yo point guard playing in his hometown—I think most organizations would. But we KNOW Rose will start at some point and that he’s too good not to get decent minutes. I’ll eat my words and call for Paxson’s firing by the end of the season if I’m wrong.

I guess after years of seeing Duhon start over-Ben, we’re particularly panicky about this. But Vinny-Dell-Bernie are not the same as Skiles-Boylan. I hope.

by T Maple on Oct 22, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

uh, no. Freak out.

of course it matters. Give a good reason why he shouldn’t start. Why even do anything otherwise, even if you’re correct that it will have no long-term effect, it certainly just delays the effect, and why do that?

And who are all these other players on the team not named Derrick Rose? They are of less concern to me. Unless Derrick Rose changed his name to Thabo something? Thab-o?

(And Kirk’s confidence! Oh no!)

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

More importantly, I'd like to know the reason why he wouldn't be starting.

If Rose was having a bad preseason and getting outplayed than you could maybe justify it, But, the fact is, he’s been the best player on the floor and has EARNED the starting job. So it just plain doesn’t make sense on any level for him to come off the bench.

by Juiceboxjerry on Oct 22, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I usually never agree with Matt... :P

But this time I do.

Rose starting is a no-brainer

by BAB-Bass on Oct 22, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed he should start...just not as worried/angry about when

(especially since it’s not happened in a reg season game yet). But why Hughes is starting, as other people have wondered (as well as several other Qs about the rotations), is what I’ll reserve my pondering & fuming for. Last night’s 4th quarter was great, but the first three quarters were scary and depressing.

by T Maple on Oct 22, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

The play of Derrick Rose is causing several problems on this team, more specifically player personnel. More than ever, Paxson needs to make a trade, sooner than later, to enable Rose to become the Star he has the potential to be. Rose is beating one of these guards out of the starting line up and that causes problems in the long run. Might I add the only reason Rose is make erodes into the starting lineup and sending a veteran to the bench is because he can get in the lane when others rather shoot jumps and let the opponent defense off easy.

The other problem is the starting line-up. What Vinny has been touting this preseason won’t work at all. Gooden at the 5 and Thomas at the 4 is leave gaping holes in the Bulls defensive shell that teams are now exploiting on a nightly bases. Along with Deng, there’s not one guy in the frontcourt capable of stopping anyone coming through the lane. Gooden is one you shouldn’t plug in at center and is not known for his defense. Thomas is decent when it comes to blocks, but can’t lockdown his man, yet. Deng, of course is not known as a defense stopper – right now I can’t say what is his specialty – all are 6-9".

Vinny needs to start Gary at center, only because he is the only nature center on this team and have shown improvement. He knows how to play center better than Gooden. I understand that Vinny wants to play up-tempo, but this line-up is a liability on the defensive end. Also Gary at the 5 is not always looking for his shot: Gooden at the 4, Deng 3, and Gordon 2, Rose at the 1, of course.

Players up for trade: Kirk, if his shot isn’t falling what else can’t Hinrich do? Before last year, Kirk was known for his defense and PG abilities, but Kirk hasn’t shown that in Preseason games to date. Joke Noah (what growth has he shown in recent preseason games? he gets beat by deep bench guys), and Hughes (erratic shot selection and nice size contract).

I would rather see, Thabo backing up Gordon and Rose or starting; Thomas subbing for Gooden and Deng, and someone other than Noah backing up Gary. With the right trades that’ll bring back decent help and starting line-up, Thomas and Rose can develop into respectable players. Paxson can’t be sitting on his hands with the logjam at the guard position that causes instability in your line-ups. A trade needs to happen fast.

by Soloistic on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't know who this Gary guy is, but I'm excited to see him play

Seriously, if you believe Gray is an answer to our defensive problems, than I’ve wasted a minute of my life reading your post. On what basis do you argue that GRAY and Gooden will improve the defense?

by DangerMouse on Oct 22, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

We have to get rid of Larry Hughes as fast as possible

The only thing keeping him on the roster is the contract. This alone is no reason to play him either.

The more minutes Larry Hughes plays the greater our chances are for defeat.

The beat writers should be asking the staff constantly about playing Hughes. He contributes almost nothing at all offensively and his defense can’t help when he’s sleeping, slow, and flat footed.

Ask the damn questions already.

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

come on

do you REALLY expect someone on the Bulls staff to say they don’t want to play Hughes because of his contract and/or because he stinks? Let’s be realistic.

NOBODY in the Bulls organization will come close to saying anything like that, even when Hughes is gone.

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

The can ask about playing Hughes

They can ask about his minutes, his production, his lack thereof, his sleeping on defense.

There’s plenty they can ask about Hughes in particular. They might be asking the questions. They aren’t printing the answers if they are answered.

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

KC & Hanley

dare not ask a direct hard-hitting question…it’s against policy! It’s not part of the process of how we do things…

by NormVanBeer on Oct 22, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've yet to hear an a realistic idea for trading Hughes

Here’s how I think we could trade Hughes:

1. Take back committed salary in 2010. EG Hughes for Eddy Curry. Unless we’re getting something amazing back, we’d be better off buying him out.

2. Package him up with something really good. EG Hughes and Tyrus/Noah/etc from some good player on a big, long contract.

3. I used to think it’d be possible to trade him for someone else’s garbage, but I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s the smelliest garbage around. For example, if you’re the Knicks, why would you trade him Q Richardson and Jerome James to get Hughes? Q at least has a track record in D’Antoni’s system, whereas Hughes is showing he can’t possibly handle it.

4. On a similar note, because we’re so close to the luxury tax threshold, we don’t even have the possibility of offering financial relief to another team to take him. For example, that Q Richardson/Jerome James deal actually has another rationale.

Those two guys make 14.9M this year and 15.3M next year. Hughes only makes $12.8M and $13.7M respectively. So even if the Knicks liked Q better, they might have a reason to make this trade. It would save them $4.7M in salary, plus $4.7M in luxury tax over the next two years. That’s $9.4M they’d save! Put it that way, and they probably would make the deal, right?

But it turns out the Bulls can’t make that sort of deal, because trading Hughes for those guys would actually put the Bulls over the tax threshold. So how much do the Bulls want to be rid of Hughes? They’d have to pay an extra $4.7M, plus some amount of luxury tax penalty, just to be rid of him.

So when I look at that, I think it’s extremely unlikely the Bulls are going to come up with a deal that’s better than just letting him sit out.

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see the need to get rid of Hughes,

merely to bench him. No amount of playing time will raise his value; but in the preseason, anyway, it doesn’t hurt to try.

Remember: that contract, which is so horrible this year, is wonderful next year. That big fat expiring deal becomes manna from heaven to garbage franchises banking on 2010 free agents. Instead of being an “albatross” he becomes an attractive “trading chip.” Better to trade him then, when he’s valuable, than now, when he’ll net us zilch.

The poster formerly known as Freethefro.

by MPG on Oct 22, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

But don't we have to take back their garbage at that time?

Now would be a good time to trade a back court problem for a front court problem perhaps.

by hhirb on Oct 22, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

no because Hughes would be an expiring deal

that would make him valuable. the receiving team would stand to save about $10 mil

by DangerMouse on Oct 22, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes and No

In general, you’re right of course, but in the context of the Bulls’ being right up against the luxury tax next year, getting a few million of breathing room would be really nice.

Beyond that, it’s not clear just how valuable he’ll be. PJ Brown and Tim Thomas were also big expiring contracts.

So I guess I feel the Bulls shouldn’t just buy him out yet, but I don’t have much expectation for things improving next year.

by Sports2 on Oct 22, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we have found the ONE

universal issue that there is consensus on amongst BAB-ers:

“Hughes shouldn’t see a minute of action during the season”

And we must let the Bulls know! I say we write a petition and send it to PaxDorf, Vinnie and the asses and whoever else is in a position of power, real or imagined!

by BAB-Bass on Oct 22, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about we deal with the Bobcats?

My main goal is to not play Hughes at all. Trades are fine, but I think they make the situation worse because we’ll have to take on hot garbage that won’t expire when we need it to.

This passes the ESPN trade machine.

Bulls get
Sean May
Adam Morrison
Nazr Mohammed(two years guaranteed, third year is early termination according to shamsports)

Bobcats get
Larry Hughes
Cedric Simmons

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is May in Brown's doghouse?

That’s the only reason I could see the Bobcats making this trade. Plus, they’re about as thin in the front court as the Bulls even if May actually stays healthy. Why would they want to then deal Mohammed?

We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan

by snley on Oct 22, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

doesn't really solve the paint defense problem

but it does at least get Hughes out of town without killing the 2010 cap.

management sez: recommend fanposts/fanshots/comments! Click 'reply' when replying to a comment! Flag jerkfaces! Be a 'Nazi' when it comes to thread duplication!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 22, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Less Hughes

one less player the paint defenders have to worry about covering for.

Addition by subtraction.

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I kind of want Skiles back....

not because he would really help us at this point after last year, but I would LOVE to hear his press conference quotes on Larry Hughes.

"Worker bees can leave.
Even drones can fly away.
The Queen is their slave."

by jpchi on Oct 22, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Showcase Hughes?

How… tell him to drive to the hole for a layup, and every Bulls player inconspiciously kicks/hits every opposing defender in the jewels once hughes starts his drive.

Then Hughes probably loses the ball out of bounds for a turnover, or pulls up for his classic off balance jumper this time even without a defender in his face and misses the net and the ball rolls out of bounds untouched..

Settle in your minds the 14 million dollar man is probably going nowhere yet, Bulls gotta eat some contract for a while for the Wallace mistake.

by exult463 on Oct 22, 2008 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

Why can't he just get with the program

and start the “Ron Harper with the Bulls”-phase of his career?…

by BAB-Bass on Oct 22, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

For a 26 or 27 year old ..

its probably hard to envision sunsetting your career especially if you’re also delusional in regards to your skills.

The Cavs, might have been a bit wiser, now that I think about the trade. Wallace being older, really only wants to get paid. While he was a bit of a trouble maker with the Bulls it was only a front to try to prove he really cared about winning.

Yet Wallace, with the right amount of diplomacy from a knowledgable GM and coach I believe could be encouraged to sit his un-talented a.. down and relax and be happy if he gets 15 mil/yr & 10 minutes a game and sunset your career until the next year and then play like a monster grabbing 12 rebound for the last 3 months of 2010. Then in 2010, you’ll be in line to grab another MLE, for another 6 million.

Hughes situation is much more complex, he’ll still be under 30 when his contract expires!

The way of the NBA… wow gotta Iove the NFL … just cut the Cedric Bensons on your team

by exult463 on Oct 22, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point about the Wallace trade

But Hughes turns 30 in January… So he should get his Khakis and umbrella drink and get ready for the sunset

by BAB-Bass on Oct 23, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hughes doesn't even have the athleticism

to compare with Harper as a Bull. That’s even with partially broken down Ron Harper by the time we got him. He still d’ed up his man and filled passing lanes 10 times better than Larry Hughes.

Harp also wasn’t looking for his shot, but would take it if he received the ball when open. Hughes should receive honorary membership in the bricklayers union.

My apologies the bricklayers union. They don’t deserve this.

by NBA Observer on Oct 22, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure that is correct

Harper was not very athletic those years with the Bulls. I think the difference is mostly mental. (Playing defence is mostly WANTING to, and just a little bit knowledge and athlethicism) Harper was just not as selfish and delusional as Hughes is now.

by BAB-Bass on Oct 23, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago Bulls.

Links

"Best NBA Blogroll"
-- Dan Shanoff

The Essentials:
Bulls.com
NBA.com
HoopsHype
BallHype
ESPN.com NBA

Workin' the Beat:
KC Johnson - Tribune (blog)
John Jackson - Sun-Times (blog)
Mike McGraw - Daily Herald (blog)
Nick Friedell -  ESPNChicago.com
Sam Smith - Bulls.com
Aggrey Sam - CSNChicago.com


More Bulls Blogs/Forums:
Thank You Isiah
Chicago Bulls Podcasters
Bulls Confidential
By the Horns
Bullish Thoughts
Chicago Bulls KY
Pippen Ain't Easy
RealGM Bulls Forum
SportsTwo Bulls Forum

Blogging the Association:
(League Wide)
True Hoop
HoopsAnalyst
Give Me the Rock
The Basketball Jones
NBA Fanhouse
Hoops Addict
SBNation.com - NBA
ProBasketballTalk
ShamSports
Ball Don't Lie
The Painted Area


(Team-Centric)
Queen City Hoops

Bobcats Baseline
Knickerblogger.net    
Sixers' Shots
Forum Blue and Gold
SuperSonicSoul
Hornets247.com 
SonicsCentral.com 
ClipperBlog.com  
The Nugg Doctor
Loy's Place
Reds Army
Need4Sheed
THE WIZZNUTZZ
RaptorsForum.com
TWolvesBlog.com
Spurs Dynasty
David's Memphis Grizzlies Blog
The Bratwurst
Sixers Journal
Sixers 4 Guidos 
3 Shades of Blue  
CavsNews.com
RaptorTalk
Deceptively Quick
TheLakersNation.com
Utah Jazzer Blog
KnicksDefense.com
T. Jose Caldeford
Hoopinion
RaptorBlog.com
Suns @NBAWeblog.com
The Cowhide Globe
Stepien Rules
Project Spurs
Raptors Republic
Dino Nation Blog
Lake Show Life
Valley of the Suns
The KnicksBlog.com
Big Lakers Fan
Roundball Mining Company
Cavs: The Blog
48 Minutes of Hell
Daily Thunder
Piston Powered
The Two Man Game
PistonsNationBlog.com
Cowbell Kingdom.com
Hot Hot Hoops
NetsAreScorching
Celtics Hub
Orlando Magic Daily
Philadunkia
Truth About It
Always Miller Time
Slippery When Nets
Eight Points Nine Seconds
Howlin' T-Wolf
Red 94

MSM NBA blogs:

Ira Winderman (Heat)
Jason Quick (Blazers)
IndyStar.com (Pacers)
Michael Cunningham (Hawks) 
Full-Court Press (Pistons)
Jonathan Feigen (Rockets)
Rick Bonnell (Bobcats)
Jazz Notes
Chris Herrington (Grizzlies)
Orlando Sentinel
Michael Lee (Wizards)
Alan Hahn (Knicks)   
Doug Smith (Raptors)
Marc Berman (Knicks)
Al Iannazzone (Nets)

For the Statheads:
Basketball-Reference.com
APBR Discussion
Knickerblogger's Stat Page
82Games.com
Doug's Stats
Popcorn Machine
HoopData


Other Resources:

HoopsHype Salaries
SportsTwo Salaries
ESPN.com Trade Machine
RealGM: NBA Draftpicks Owed
ShamSports.com Salaries
DraftExpress

 


Guy who does everything

Blogabull_s_small your friendly BullsBlogger