Bulls go to 3-0 against Pistons this season

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 19, 2008 10:42 PM CST in News Comment 66 comments

Even if they sweep the season series against Detroit, it wouldn't convince me that the Bulls can beat these guys in a playoff series. Although even for a team notorious for lackluster regular season efforts, you'd think after the first 2 losses the Pistons would've flipped their magic 'on' switch for this one.

Bulls needed this game bad after letting one go last night and knowing Luol would be out with his recurring myriad injuries (officially an issue). Hinrich did return from his injury absence but was pretty rusty (or bad, if you don't want to give an excuse), and if I were an official I'd pick on him for fouls too after seeing his act.

Ben Gordon was fantastic (13-13 from the line!), and 2 of the youngins, Noah and Thabo, played excellent. Even with Hinrich back, Thabo still received over 35 minutes, playing a lot of small forward in the 2nd half. Chris Duhon exited the game in the 4th after banging knees with Chauncey Billups, so despite Boylan's leanings towards Thabo going back to the pine, if Thabo's performance didn't put that to rest then injury circumstances will.

So maybe Smith and Noc need to get kneecapped to get Tyrus back in the rotation. I doubt his 6 nondescript minutes at an unnatural position (backup SF in the first half) tonight helped his cause. Boylan at least seems to be giving Noah guaranteed burn now, but I can't see Tyrus getting out of the doghouse any time soon. Amazing there can be such a roster crunch on such a bad team, but it's looking that way.

But even I'm getting sick of banging that drum. I can at least be happy with a big win coming with Noah and Thabo contributing. If it takes a scrape and crawl to .500 to belatedly get Tyrus back at that level, then so be it. To mediocrity, and beyond!

Oh, and for some reason I'm going to Memphis this weekend to see the Bulls play the Griz. It seemed like a good idea at the time. So posting and comment policing (::groan::) will be light for a couple days.

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Bulls-Grizzlies: Where Amazing Happens

by Big D on Jan 19, 2008 10:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich was not rusty

he just sucks, how many times did he dribble around and ran the shot clock down and with less than 5 seconds to go he gives it up and we throw up a prayer? 2-7? I thought he was 1-15 the way he was heaving bricks out there and fouls weren't helping either, we look way better with Sefolosha out there

by alee7805 on Jan 19, 2008 11:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Just hope we keep seein' the kids out there....

They were a real breath of fresh air tonight.
And Thabo is a real pleasure to watch grow up right in front of our eyes.

His ball handling and court sense shows real leadership abilities.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Jan 19, 2008 11:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Those hands, my gawd those hands

They are an active bunch. Thabo must have changed 10 possessions all by himself with those hands.

by NBA Observer on Jan 19, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beale Street is very fun.

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 19, 2008 11:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Memphis can be violent on MLK Day

I went to Beale Street on MLK Day back in 1997 and the KKK marched in Memphis. It was an all out riot. Fortunately, we arrived after it all. But, it was not fun because the streets were bare, and alot of businesses were closed because of the riots. Memphis is a really depressed city.

by BiNgO on Jan 20, 2008 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On the flipside

Good seats should still be available. Hopefully you didn't buy your tickets yet. The UC is about the only place I can think of where the place sells out and everybody makes an effort to show up.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fist pumps, towel waves, leading the cheers?

Was that Ben Wallace I saw being a good teammate tonight?

Silently absent from the entire fourth quarter, Noah took the challenge and held his own. You think that awful defense leaving McDyess all alone from 18 feet while protecting the paint from no Piston finally got to Boylan?

by NBA Observer on Jan 19, 2008 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Look at it this way:

You're going to Memphis not only to see an NBA game between two lousy teams, but also to get the fuck out of Chicago. I don't know what the weather is in Memphis right now, but I'm sure it's got to be better than it is here.

by Big D on Jan 19, 2008 11:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

More important is

the "weather" in Fedex Center.Does Gasol get booes
from fans in Memphis?

"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Jan 20, 2008 1:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here in St Louis

It's in the teens, so maybe not much better in Memphis.

"There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacArthur

by cubbybear on Jan 20, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i feel like the team..

...has been playing better in the last 4-5 games despite some of the losses. This was a good win, though the Pistons looked like they were snoozing. Thabo needs a lot of minutes, hope Boylan keeps that up even if Du returns. Our offense seems so much more fluid without Kirk and his excessive dribbling.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Jan 20, 2008 1:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Schedule till the end of January

@ Memphis -?

vs Pacers- must win

vs Bobcats- must win

vs Suns-?(lost them 1 point at the buzzer last year)

and for dessert two back to back games with T-wolfs.
Can we go 5-1?If yes, the Bulls are on the 7-th spot.And I still believe, that if we get to the playoffs we can compete with any team in the East.You never know what is gonna happened then.
Is it gonna be a "turning the corner strech"?We all wish that.
So.Let's do this!!!

P.S.I bought a new car today and this win over Piss-ons was a best "addition to package".Thank you Bulls!

"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Jan 20, 2008 3:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Smith and Nocioni Kneecapped?

Are you crazy? TT is totally inconsistent. He does not use his brain when playing. I have almost given up hope for him as it seems he is putting more effort towards getting his tattoos finished than on his game.

by BiNgO on Jan 20, 2008 8:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

And another thing

could we please try just a little bit to read between the lines here? The whole "Thabo back to the bench" thing was a smoke screen. The message is nothing is guaranteed if you play a couple good games. This probably goes all the way to BG and Deng. Management and the coaches are just telling the young guys, and this is still a predominantly young team, that you need to show up and play hard every game. Oh and don't be a dick to the assistant coaches if you can help it.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 9:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

they can say whatever they want

I'm fine with it. Only minutes matters.

(although saying that Duhon was playing well could've gone unsaid.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 20, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We have become the NBA role model for

screwing up rookies heads and lacking patience with rookies. This coaching staff should be (and Skiles was) fired for not getting Thabo involved and mentally ready to play from the first game of the season. If they had Thabo mentally ready I can think of half a dozen games we could have won with a long guard that plays defense. Thabo would still be sitting on the bench if it wasn't for Hinrich's injury. If you cannot develop rookies trade your picks. Rookies screwup, look terrible one minute and then look great another. You need patience to see what you have in front of you. This coaching staff sucks at developing rookies. They use every mistake to yank them out of the game and humiliate them. These guys are in their early 20s and fragile. Kobe looked horrible his first few years. Most of the great players looked horrible their first few years. Sure there is the James and Michael Jordan exceptions but they are the exceptions. Our coaching staff would have had Kobe benched, demanding a trade. We have become the NBA champs at screwing up rookie heads.

by chgobr on Jan 20, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're getting yourself all worked up

and no, Kobe didn't look bad his first few years. He made an all-star game during his second I believe. Guys who aren't going to be instant stars need to learn the lessons of how to be a pro. Deng, Kirk, and BG were rookies a few years ago and they are progressing. You need patience as a fan, too.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They also

got significant minutes their rookie/second years

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and they did more with them

than TT has done with his this year.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

look at their rookie year PERs. Tyrus is just below Gordon and better than Hinrich and Deng.

Their 2nd years were better than Thomas' so far, but they were also given consistent minutes even when not playing well. I understand that the Bulls were in a different situation then, but I don't have much doubt they would have struggled much more if their minutes were so inconsistent.

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference

is that when TT didn't play well in his second year, there were both a player who could play better and expectations that required playing that better player. TT's minutes haven't been inconsistent, they've changed, but they haven't been inconsistent. When he started he got at least 20 min. Recently, he's come in at the end of the first/start of the second. He knows when he's going to play, he just needs to perform better.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

As I said, the Bulls were obviously in a different situation then. But its also disingenuous to say that Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon 'earned' their minutes any more than Thomas, or Noah for that matter.

And his minutes have clearly been inconsistent. One game he will play 20, others he'll play 2.

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did I ever say that?

He plays 20 in games where they have a big lead in the second half or in garbage time. It's predictable and consistent.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, you are wrong

His two 20 minute games this month have been close games. Since the beginning of December, the majority of his minutes in games in which he plays 20 (6 games) have come while the game has been close

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you sure

One game was the Knick game, he came in for his usual spot at the end of the first for 6 min. They were up 10 in the second when he came in again, a big lead. They were still up when he came in in the 4th. Deng, was hurt that game and Noc had the flu, so injuries played a role in his minutes.

Against Sac he came in at the same spot in the first and again in the second when they had an 8 point lead. Deng out that game too. Check the gameflows, they reveal all. Both times he was active in the first half, too.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess it just depends on what you consider

garbage time or a big lead. I don't consider 8-10 a big lead. Regardless of the semantics, your facts are wrong:

In the Knick game when he came in in the 1st, they were tied. When he came in in the 3rd, they were up 2, and when he came in in the 4th, they were up 3.

In the Sac game, when he came in in the 1st, they were down 2, in the 2nd up 2, in the 3rd, up 5.

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He always comes in at the same point 1st half

and I think you're right about the second half numbers, but that was probably more due to Deng being out and the matchup than the score. So his minutes are still consistent.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So Matt

will that be you in your #24 Bulls jersey holding the "We want Gasol" sign on tv tomorrow?

So with Du probably out tomorrow I hope Kirk is feeling up to starting. He said after the game that his back felt better in the second half than it did in the first. I guess it's how it feels tomorrow is what matters.

Noah is making the most of his playing time. It was also nice ot see BW cheering him on from the bench. Looks to me that whatever problem there was they have moved on and we should too.

Nocioni does not deserve all the hate he gets here. They all make mistakes but his get magnified in here.

Yes, the game is on in Iowa.

by sue369 on Jan 20, 2008 9:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Noc went through a period where all did was

settle for jumpshots.

Now that he's mixing in more drives, I don't see how you can't like what he's doing.

by alec on Jan 20, 2008 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

because he isn't very good

As the team has improved from sucky to mediocre, Nocioni has returned to his normal negative plus-minus rating form. His offensive production; career high usage, and lowest TS% since his rookie season is a disappointment. Career low TRB% too.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 20, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His TS%

is still higher than his career average, so it's not like it's a huge dropoff. He's also got a career high PER of 16.4 right now indicating he's playing at a higher level than before despite a slightly lower TS%. His TOV% is way down, too. I just don't understand why you can't appreciate this guy.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

because he isn't very good

I was trying to explain that his offense production hasn't improved, or changed all that much. I wish B-R Redux had oPER. The turnovers are down, but he's still a high usage player who doesn't pass or handle the ball well (Gordon is better at both, h8ters). Perhaps missed shots have replaced bad passes?

Nocioni's still offense isn't my biggest complaint. The bad defense, bad rebounding, and stupid mistakes clearly (plus-minus rating) hurt the team every season. Oh, and the long contract.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 20, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

are we looking at the same numbers?

Player PER TOV% USG-R oRTG
Noc 16.4 10.7 25.5 108
BG 15.3 11.2 26.0 106

Those numbers, if correct, seem to point to Noc as the better offensive player this year. It's a tough argument to make that BG is a better ball handler or passer, and I wouldn't want either as the main ball handler. And neither is good at defense so there is no use comparing them there. Add in flops, and the scales flop to Noc's side ;-)

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What those numbers show

is that right now it looks damn lucky Gordon didn't sign that extension

by JeffD on Jan 20, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it doesn't show much about

something as vague as "ballhandling" though. A higher TOV% means there's a willingness to pass!

Nocioni looks at the ball when he dribbles. Case closed.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 20, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or a propensity to trip

but I think you are right about BG trying to pass more. But would it weaken your argument a bit to admit that Noc's AST% is up almost 50% over last year and BG's is down about 33%? Give Noc a little love and I'll start the BG All-Star campaign.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think assists show much

Half the stat depends on a teammate making a shot, and recording an assist is hardly an exact scorekeeper science. I'm not ignoring it to bash Nocioni, I just don't find much value in it. In the case of two guys who aren't very good at distributing the ball, it's not enough to prove anything.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Jan 20, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And another, another thing

You should take TT's 6 minutes as progress. The coaches left him out there until he was tired, they didn't rush anybody back in for him. And that's different than the night before. TT also didn't do anything bad out there. More progress.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Jan 20, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

He had a decent game last night considering so maybe guys should be happy about the relatively mistake-free 6 minutes he played last night instead of crying about it not being 30 minutes. This is how he earns his way back into the rotation.

Sucking chest wound? Bench Wallace and start Noah

by Rusty LaRue on Jan 20, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Would someone on the coaching staff

please tell Nocioni to keep his mouth shut around the refs?

I mean, as Scottie said, he's almost taking it to Sheed levels now.

For a guy who flops so much and really needs to have the refs give him a few whistles, he needs to stop with the bitching after literally every call that goes against him.

by Orlando Woolridge on Jan 20, 2008 11:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why do non-american players

all have the same two handed, palms up, ref begging body language?

Almost all of them have the same ritual gestures.

by NBA Observer on Jan 21, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I could see

it being difficult to get your point across to the refs with a tricky accent and a loud stadium without some extra body language. Most of the world talks with their hands more than Americans anyway. I'd take that over eye rolling, ref hounding, or the Rasheed Spittle any day.

by cranscape on Jan 21, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noc

plays with all his heart.And thats what our roster is missing(exept Noah and Thabo lately).

"YES,WE CAN!"-B.OBAMA.

by Azabullsfan on Jan 20, 2008 1:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My theory

We should play the kids, and live and die with what they do. We will in the future, why not figure out what we have now?

"There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacArthur

by cubbybear on Jan 20, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Amen! daaaaaaBulls for president!

by chgobr on Jan 20, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you been to the UC this year?

If not, get out there for a game. I was a skeptic about the calls for a youth movement. But watching a game live, seeing the sidelines, watching the vets loaf(they get tired, age happens), it becomes evident that the youth movement is the only thing that can extend the season for the team. That extra reach, a few more steps, a dive for the sidelines, a quick rotation, these are the qualities that Noah and Thabo were giving us in the Golden State and Detroit game. When they checked out, the opponents played the same but were now executing against a different 5 man rotation.

The fans were screaming for Thabo and Noah in the GSW game.

by NBA Observer on Jan 21, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Results of today's MRI on Du's

knee?

LSU 38 OHIO STATE 24 - LSU IS THE NATIONAL CHAMPION AND I AM THE KING OF BOURBON STREET!!

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 20, 2008 6:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ben Gordon

is currently the best FT shooter in the league, just fyi.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaftpct&sort=ft%&league=nba&avg=none

"There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacArthur

by cubbybear on Jan 20, 2008 6:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Another encouraging sign

is that Gordon seems to have developed better moves to try to draw fouls. It will be nice if he has moved beyond throwing his arms up and falling down as his primary "foul drawing" move.

by philosoball on Jan 20, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How Ben Gordon earns a 10 mil per paycheck

13-13 from the FT line.

BG becomes a 25+ ppg player if he gets to the line.

by NBA Observer on Jan 21, 2008 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in the Memp game

he was 6-6...that's 9.5 FTs for a couple of games...if he can float around 8-9 FTs a game, that would definitely be a plus

by ScottieCartwright on Jan 22, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noah needs to be getting 30+ minutes a game

If he gets that, he'll clearly be averaging double digit rebounds and maybe 2 blocks or so a game.

Sam Smith said it best

The Bulls realized in the win against Detroit that having a more energetic Noah out there rather than Wallace gives the team the best chance at winning.

And I totally agree with Smith that a deal with the Lakers makes a lot of sense for both teams.

Taking on Radmanovic's contract would suck but it's totally better than holding on to an old Wallace and Wallace would fit well with the Lakers offense

by Option27 on Jan 20, 2008 9:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Does it really make sense?

I'm just not sure the Lakers would view it as making sense. Do they really want an offensively challenged center who could be fouled at crucial times in close games?

Matt, Duhon's out for the Memphis game, he'll be in Chicago getting an MRI. That'll make your trip better.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-080120bullsbits,1,1468544.story?c oll=cs_tab01_layout

by KT on Jan 20, 2008 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Rodman was offensively challenged. Phil made it work.

The Lakers likely don't even need Ben Wallace down the stretch to close games. If you complement Kobe with defensive stoppers and rebounders, you give him the freedom to score at will. This is why he wanted to play with Deng. If you add Ben Wallace to the Lakers his scoring will go up only because the Lakers score more points and they have players that command double teams complementing good passers like Fisher and Walton. The triangle can feed the ball around the perimeter after a double team on Kobe until the ball comes to Wallace wide open in the paint for a dunk.

As in Detroit, Ben Wallace's weaknesses would be masked among the supplemental talent around him on the Lakers.

The expiring Brown contract would be nice. If anything, it would keep Brown from going to another team that really wants 9 mil in cap space next season.

by NBA Observer on Jan 21, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Classic Sam

When did he earn the right to call ANYBODY bad hair?

by California Al on Jan 21, 2008 7:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad Sam has joined the trade the Corpse

chorus. It is music to my ears.

by chgobr on Jan 21, 2008 7:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I do that in a heartbeat

simply to be rid of Wallace; the expiring contract of Brown is a plus. And the Baltic marksman can keep Khryapa company on the bench. Knock back a few cognacs. Dance a ckola.

by Freethefro on Jan 21, 2008 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you!!

by chgobr on Jan 21, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I HAVE A DREAM!

WHERE BW IS GONE, AND NOAH, THABO, TT, AND GRAY GET MORE MINUTES. THE BULLS HAVE A REAL COACHING STAFF. I HAVE A DREAM WHERE THE BULLS GO ON A STREAK AND MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON.
PU! I JUST FARTED AND WOKE MYSELF UP! DAMN! IT WAS A DREAM.

by BiNgO on Jan 21, 2008 9:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

in bad taste

by Freethefro on Jan 21, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Jan 21, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Smith had a bad game!

Inconsistent! Inconsistent!!! INCONSISTENT!!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Jan 21, 2008 9:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

He looked tired

from the opening tip. You could even see it in his face.

by alec on Jan 21, 2008 11:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

TT non-finish

At one point, Tyrus had JHayes alone on the low block. The guard passed it into him to take advantage of the mismatch. T tried to back in, gave several fakes, and threw up a fall away baseline hook that missed everything.
It drives me nuts to have three bigs on this team (TT, Noah and BW)who can't finish inside. Noah did have a good game though and hopefully will learn.

by El Toro de Goro on Jan 21, 2008 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

TT

Tyrus can finish. He just gets into trouble when he tries to do too much. Noah isn't refined offesively either, but both players do not even compare with Ben Wallace.

by Jesse07 on Jan 21, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs