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Around SBN: Bracketology 2012: Duke Finally Steps Up To The No. 1 Line

The East has gotten better, but the Bulls can still be the best

Good for the Celtics in getting KG. There may be some (from what I've read, not many) moans from green-kool-aid nation over ruining 'the future'. But really, they had little future, and not much of a present. My opinion on them going into the season was that they weren't going to play defense and therefore likely wouldn't even be as good as the Wizards. Now, with Garnett, they get that much better as a team defensively (albeit maybe not even average) that I would now consider them officially scary.

Sure, they still have Doc Rivers to screw things up, although with a now vet-laden team I'm assuming his 'coaching' becomes less relevant. And there's no bench (and a lot of faith in a young PG who can't shoot), but finding those guys is the easy part. The difficult task is done in assembling some really good parts, replacing the Ryan Gomes of the world is just an cap exception or two away.

Although as I (and others here) try to emphasize, there's no set way to build a title team. The only sure way is to build a really good team and win a title, and then you make up the rules retroactively that got you there. So instead of comparing this Bulls team or this new Celtics team with past champs, how about against eachother? How about against the rest of the East?

I think the Bulls are the best team in the East. In the coming regular season, anyway.

They were the best in the East last season in terms of point differential, and the two big frontcourt additions of Joe Smith and Joakim Noah should make them better. I also think they'll be less likely for yet another circus trip stumble, with much fewer new players to break in to Skiles-ball(no headbands and lots of kneescrapes and fist pumps, basically). And as I said before last season, they're suited to win a bunch of games just by being deep and relentless. It got them to 49 wins last year even after some bad luck (yes, I'll bang that point differential drum as much as I can), I don't see why they can't be in the mid-50s and take the #1 seed.

That's not what it's all about though, obviously. Regardless of a potentially gaudy record, are they better than Detroit, Cleveland, and now Boston? Even Miami or New Jersey?

Eh, I don't know. But the good thing is that since most of this team is young, none of us really know. I can't even speculate as to what another full season will mean for Tyrus Thomas or Noah, let alone whatever potential leap can occur between Deng and Gordon (or both, if you want to get giddy). Every year Skiles has coached this team, his players and teams have progressed as the season goes along. I look on paper now and foresee a lot of regular season success, but it's that progression that can enable them to win the conference.

And in the 2008 NBA Playoffs, the proof will be in the results. It's not: if the Bulls have more 'superstars' they'll win the East,  if they had a 'low post presence' they'll win the East. If they beat the best of the East in 7-game series, then they'll win the East. And then pundits will go into how the 'Bulls way' of building a team is the right way, whatever that means. I suppose that Deng and Gordon are now 'superstars', or that perimeter teams are enough to win, or that simply having the best defense in basketball is enough.

But there is no right way, just the right teams with each their own way.  And it's the teams that win, not the strategy of making them. So looking at the teams, who's clearly better than the Bulls? Sure the Bulls have to still beat the Pistons and Cavaliers to prove they're worthy, but I see a conference where all the top teams have a lot to prove. Welcome the Celtics to the contending fray, but don't count out the Bulls ultimately coming out of that scrum.

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07-08 Season
I've been a little bit surprised recently as I've read around the Internets about projections for next season.  All the talk seems to be about Cleveland and Detroit being the best in the East, and other teams contending like the Wizards, the Celtics now with KG, the Nets if they play well and are healthy, etc., ad nauseam.  Is it just the lack of sexy moves in the off-season for the Bulls, or do people really not believe they can become significantly better as a team next year?  People seem to see the Bulls as the "Baby" Bulls still (I name I don't like because that term referred to players who are mostly gone now) or continue to cite the now cliche "No Low-Post Presence" Argument, which really should have an acronym (NLPP) by now, or, like Rasheed Wallace, take the Bulls lightly because they are like that pesky little brother you can just slap away when they get annoying.  I have to believe that the Bulls will be better this year during the regular season, leading to a better post-season performance.  If anything, the Bulls should be better defensively this season, with more minutes for Tyrus and Thabo, better continuity with Ben Wallace in the fold for a season now, and replacing wispy Malik Allen and slow-footed PJ Brown with the younger and much more athletic Joe Smith/Joakim Noah combination.  Better defense means more easy baskets.  If the Bulls can win two or three games on the circus road trip, they will put themselves in a good position to get hot when they come back to the United Center.  I think not having that early hole to dig out of would really help the season, and, of course, if they had won only one more game last year it's conceivable they would have beaten the Pistons or Cavs and gone to the Finals.

by stevekerrsfloppyhair on Jul 31, 2007 12:32 AM CDT reply actions  

bulls predictions, media, etc..
Every year the media seems to underestimate the bulls. This is probably due to the fact that how they do the next season always depends on how much individual improvement goes on. If both Deng and Gordon keep on improving, and thomas, thabo and noah develop and skiles doesn't mess up things with rotation strategies....then the bulls should be favorites.  But thats a lot of ifs.  I think thats why a lot of "experts" understimate the bulls. A team with three sure all stars is ten times more likely to be picked to win than a team who didnt send anyone to the all star game last year(except a dissapointing grasshopper for the dunk contest) and thats because three all stars are a lot more reliable than a bunch of ifs.

That said, I could care less about superstar designations. Deng, hinrich, gordon, and wallace are all very skilled players.  Deng and Gordon get noticed more probably because they score more, but all of them bring valuable skills to the table.  You add the possible development of thomas, noah, and thabo and you likely have as you mentioned, the top team in the east. In some ways, I am glad the bulls are unpredictable because of their youth. It makes them more exciting (lots of ups and downs). Then again, in my opinion its a bit frustrating and it would be more fun at times to watch kobe dominate or Kevin Garnett control the game.

by Sambossanova on Jul 31, 2007 12:41 AM CDT reply actions  

We kinda had similar thoughts...
...on what this move means for the Bulls (and really, who gives a shit about any other meaning?):

http://thankyouisiah.blogspot.com/2007/07/is-three-enough.html

by BenGo07 on Jul 31, 2007 12:42 AM CDT reply actions  

The East
The key here is that Detroit and Cleveland haven't really made any significant improvements. Winning the Central will go a long way towards securing the #1 seed and advancing to the conference finals. The Bulls might not have made any mind-blowing upgrades but that continuity from last season will help them get off to a better start. I'm not ready to crown the Celtics asses just because they gutted their whole crappy team for KG. And who the hell knows if New Jersey, Washington or Miami can stay healthy enough to not get sent fishing in the first round?

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 31, 2007 12:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Continuity
That's the big thing that you mentioned.  These guys don't have to learn how to play together and they are all still getting better each season (The core group that is).  I don't see any reason, outside of injuries, why they couldn't have the #1 seed in the east.  Continuity is also the reason why I still see Detroit as their biggest obstacle.  As for Boston, they lack depth, those guys will log heavy minutes, and the point guard situation is still undeveloped.  I don't see them winning the East, but those three guys definitely scare me.

by bigballa10 on Jul 31, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Toronto Raptors
Forgot to mention to start watching out for the toronto raptors.  Or should I call them the "baby raptors" cause they are going to be really good if things pan out in the next two years or so (kind of like the baby bulls situation).  Maybe the east will hold its own soon enough.

by Sambossanova on Jul 31, 2007 12:54 AM CDT reply actions  

something about the raptors
i think they're overrated; I think they caught a ton of people by suprise last year, and I'm not even sure they'll grab a playoff spot. Look at it like this

You have 3 teams guaranteed of making the playoffs; Chi, Cle, Det

Then you have two teams that should make the playoffs; Bos and Mia

then you have essnetially 8 teams competing for the final three spots; Wsh, Orl, Cha, Mil, NY, NJ, and TOR (with philly, indy, and the hawks being non-contenders). Where does TOR style + talent + chemistry match up with those other 7 teams? I don't know; but I wouldn't be expecting much from the raptors this year. Bosh is amazing, Calderon and Ford are good players, but I think they're one player away from being annual invitees to the playoffs

by milesgmsu on Jul 31, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cle - 1 injury from lotto
can't gaurantte Cleveland, if James goes down for half season or more they would have serious trouble competing

injuries are unpredictable but at least with Bulls depth of players if they lost 1 for stretch they should be able to adjust and stay in race

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 31, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I concur
...with pretty much everything you said, Matt.  Let's break down the conference:

Atlantic Division
Toronto - Got dangerous towards the end of last season and played the Bulls very tough before ending up in a terrible playoff matchup for them.  Will be a team that has to be taken seriously, but shouldn't get more wins than the Bulls.  Bosh is a budding superstar, but the Noah/Smith acquisitions help greatly in dealing with him.

Boston - Major personnel improvements here.  But they only get so much by these moves, mainly because they still have one of the most overrated coaches in league history.  Yes, even though people are starting to wise up, I still think he's overrated.

New York - Isiah still coaching them?  I could stop right there, but...  As much as I expect a breakthrough year from Renaldo Balkman, and the fact that they have three strong players in the frontcourt, this team will be like the Westphal era Enver Nuggets on the defensive end.

New Jersey - Seems to me their window has closed, no?  They get Nenad back, but their three best players are all in the decline.  Plus, VC the year after a new contract - Bulls should have no problem with this team (put Thabo on Kidd and we'll be OK).

Philly - Iguodola is poised for a monster year, but beyond that, I'm not seeing a lot from this team.

Southeast Division
Miami - Over the hill.  Wade is one of the top three players in the league, but he can't do it by himself.  Shaq is still out of shape, even if he surrounds himself with chubby kids.  Bulls will sweep them this year.

Washington - See comments above on the Knicks.  Lots of scorers, but a weak front line and porous D means Bulls will have a better record.

Charlotte - Tons of potential here.  But not enough to contend yet.

Orlando - Did they improve?  Many don't think so, but getting rid of Darko has to have some positive impact.  Still not well coached, though.

Atlanta - Will contend with Chicago for "worst Hawks" in professional sports.

Central Division
Milwaukee - Don't sleep on the Bucks.  They have a solid roster and were decimated by injuries before going into full-on tank mode.  I think they'll be pretty good this year.  Not as good as the Bulls, of course.

Cleveland - Are they going to get better?  Are they working on anything?  Larry Hughes is still the PG, right?  With Eric Snow backing him up?  LeBron is amazing and all, but I'm not seeing a return trip to the Finals.

Indiana - A complete mess, right?  Jermaine O'Neal continues to be the most overrated superstar in the league and they've got little beyond him.  Who's coaching them now?

Detroit - Flip Saunders is a pretty good regular season coach.  We can all remember how badly he screwed up the playoffs the last two years, but that doesn't apply to this conversation, right?  The main thought here - there are a lot of miles on those Piston legs.  How will they hold up through another long season with a lousy bench?

Chicago - You've seen my tagline - I think this is the year Deng really takes off.  The team is deeper than last year - Hinrich, Gordon, Deng should all improve to some degree (hopefully lots) and Wallace should fit in better on the court.  I really felt like last year, his heart was still in Detroit.  That should change now with more history on the team.  Does he have anything left in the tank?  I think so - you see him play live and how much he frustrates opponents.  It's a thing of beauty.  Tyrus will improve greatly, right?  Thabo, too?  Noah is a major upgrade from Sweets & Malik.

So, it appears that in total, the East will be much better than last year - yes, that's not saying much.  I agree with Matt in that all the teams have flaws.  The Bulls have the least (or perhaps most manageable) flaws to contend with.  The top seed should be theirs.  This year's circus trip will be perhaps the most crucial in Barnum & Baily history...  Win at least half the games on that swing, and the Bulls should take the top seed, barring injury.

by corey williams corey benjamin on Jul 31, 2007 2:53 AM CDT reply actions  

Orlando
Whoops.  I forgot they canned Hill and hired StanVan.  They will be a lot better this year.  People are concerned about losing Darko and Grant Hill, but Darko's a loser and Hill slowed down their offense and was a defensive liability.  They'll improve.

by corey williams corey benjamin on Aug 1, 2007 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget...
Don't forget PJ Brown. While I'd like to think he's going to retire, I'd bet Ainge atleast calls him up and says "Want to join us and make the finals out of the East?"

Not many people think long term in the NBA and KG and the Celtics are the hottest thing right now meaning everyone is swept up in printing Finals tickets. Nevermind that the same problem the Bulls would've had is now the Celtics problem...what happens when you have to give Pierce, KG, and Allen a break?

Does a lineup of Rondo, Tony Allen, Wally Z, Scalabrine, and Perkins/Kandi man keep your team competitive enough to not make a huge hole your stars can get out of? Do you play the big three so much during the regular season to avoid using the scrubs that they're worn out by the playoffs? The 400 day break between playoff games not withstanding.

by CubFan81 on Jul 31, 2007 6:58 AM CDT reply actions  

wallly is now
a Sonic.  He went in the trade for Ray Allen.  So they don't even  have Wally to fall back on (and I think KG wouldn't have agreed to the trade if Wally Z was still there.)

by KT on Jul 31, 2007 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Forgot
Oh yeah, forgot about that...well, even worse for them I guess.

by CubFan81 on Jul 31, 2007 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

good, but for how long
when i look at this trade i think it's a great move and that the celtics immediately become a contender.  however, viewed as a pound-for-pound matchup against the Bulls, i don't like this trade as much.  
without a doubt, the Celts are built to live or die on three players.  unfortunately for them, the youngest of these players is 30 and all of them have logged heavy miles carrying teams on their shoulders (particularly, their SG who's one sore knee away from being christened Ray Allen Houston).
After 82 games, who else can help lift this team come playoff time.  i know the company-line will be that nobody needs to pick up the slack for KG, Pierce and Allen-Houston.. ...i just disagree.  just about any championship team that I can recall had bench players make major contributions in key games.  playing the Bulls, who will undoubtedly go after the Celts by running (just like they did with the Heat), the bench will have to make a contribution.
I have to think that, defensively, the Bulls can check at least two of these three.  Hinrich better be able handle Allen (considering he's less of a threat to drive than he was 2 years ago) and Tyrus/Deng/Noce should be able to at least trouble Pierce.  If so, that puts a lot of responsibility on KG.  Granted, he's KG but we should be able to throw a lot of bodies at him on both ends of the floor and run enough that he gets gassed a few games in.
of course, this could all be overly optimistic.  but I like our team against the Celts.  Especially if Tyrus's mythical 15-foot jump shot becomes reality.

by CookDing on Jul 31, 2007 7:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Snap, Crackle, Pop
Ray Allen's ankle busted again.  I promise I won't say I told you so
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's not get ahead of ourselves
I'm not ready to crown the Celtics as "scary" and as a "contender" just yet.  They've definitely upgraded...but I want to see some things first.

This "trade in the works", as I guess I'll call it, eerily sounds similar to the Lakers fiasco of a few years ago.  When they tried to piece together an instant contender.  Anybody remember when they brought in Malone & Payton?  That was a complete disaster.  I'm not saying this will have the same result, I'd just be cautious before we label them as contenders just yet.

We have to remember that both Allen & Pierce are coming off of injury seasons.  Not only that, but both KG & Allen have to get adjusted to new cities, new teams, new coaches, new systems, new players, new conferences (style of play is important) etc.  They're going to need time to gel.

That being said, I believe, as Matt said, the Bulls ARE the team to beat in the East.  Last season's playoff standings were:

Detroit
Cleveland
Toronto
Miami
Chicago
New Jersey
Washington
Orlando

So who drops out?  Who moves up?  Who sneaks in?

As Mike said above, Detroit & Cleveland really haven't done much this offseason to upgrade themselves.  I'd maybe throw Washington in there too.  But other teams have made lots of improvements, at least on paper.  I think it's going to be a grind this season.  And if the Bulls aren't the top seed at the end, I'd be surprised.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 31, 2007 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

I think ...
the Celtics would be quite happy to repeat the fiasco of the 2004 Lakers, that is go all the way to the NBA Finals :-)
The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Jul 31, 2007 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

and lose...
malone and payton avg'd 5.0 and 4.2 pts in those same finals...i'm sure that's not what they were expecting

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 31, 2007 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

malone and payton were 40 and 35
Allen, Pierce, and Garnett can all still produce at a high level. Even the 98-99 Rockets trio (another popular comparison) were older than the GAP Celtics.

by hscs on Jul 31, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

You guys are funny.
hahaha

Is the pace of the game and the amount of fouls called per game the same in the playoffs as in the regular season?

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 31, 2007 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Hype doesn't mean anything
as I'm sure we all remember from last season when the talking heads flipped out over the Bulls signing Ben Wallace and started penciling them into the finals.  The Cs are at least interesting now, but it's a long season and a lot can happen with trying to blend 3 All-Star players who have never played together.

As for the Bulls, like Matt said they've also improved this offseason after being pretty darn good last season.  We can't have any idea how things like chemistry or injuries throughout the East will fall out over the season, and we just saw how oddities in seeding can change the playoffs, so there's hardly any reason to freak out before the season even starts.  And I wouldn't want to be following a team that can only win if everyone else sucks, anyway.  :)

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Jul 31, 2007 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

The Celtics' only problem
Is convincing David Stern to allow them to have two balls in play during the game, so that there are enough shots to go around for those three.
Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Jul 31, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

garnett
doesnt really shoot that much.  I dont think he will have that much of a problem.  Ray allen and pierce can work it out.  Its not like perkins and rondo are going to be getting more than 5-6 shots a game. The big three will probably average at least 60 points.  Allen and rashard didnt have a problem sharing in seattle. I really dont think pierce nor allen are that type of player (iverson anthony).

by Sambossanova on Jul 31, 2007 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

P.P.
Ray Allen will just have to get his shots when Pierce looks disinterested.  And that seems to happen a few stretches of every game P.P. plays in.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Celts
gonna be good for 2 or 3 years, then be back to mediocrity
Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 31, 2007 9:48 AM CDT reply actions  

The Bulls
have to be the deepest tem in the league or one of them. I think it's awesome the Celtics are back in the NBA mix. I think this will create a new espn baby for the east coast.  I think Boston can be a top four team in the east. My early rankings would be..

Chicago- Deepest team in east and hungery
Detriot- Just like every season they have the Vets
Toronto- Nice young team that plays the Bulls well
Boston- Has three all stars now the rest of the team needs work
Orlando- Athletic team
Cleveland-I think they take a big step back
NJ- I think the loss of Mikki Moore could hurt them alot
Miami- Old but has 2 future HOFs/ Or Wiz

Suprise team for the 8th Bobcats/Knicks/Atlanta

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 31, 2007 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Agree with the HUNGRY part
I think ESPN and media types like them will start to tick off the Bulls.  They will have a huge chip on their shoulder for sure.  Simmons (ESPN) is starting to piss me off with all that Boston love.  The way they're talking over there you would think the '86 Celtics are back! I mean Paul Pierce is 30, KG is an old 31 with all those minutes logged, and Ray Allen is 33.  They don't know what it takes to win since they have never done it.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

With ESPN it is not just basketball
but you would think baseball is just the Yankees and the Red Sox and no one else matters. Simmons is getting really annoying and the fact that where I live everyone is a Boston front runner pisses me off. I hope the Red Sox crash and burn and the Celtics suck.

by SRQman on Jul 31, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Raiding the West
The East has brought in Garnett, Ray Allen, Zach Randolph, Jason Richardson, and Rashard Lewis.  That's five All-Star players from the Western Conference.

Overall, I think the East will be improved.  I think a lot rides on Ben Wallace staying among the best defensive post players in the NBA.  If we can keep him playing at a high level, I don't think the team has any weaknesses, as either Deng or Gordon will become the consistent go-to scorer that seems to be the missing piece.

by nateroth on Jul 31, 2007 10:59 AM CDT reply actions  

All those below superstar players
realise they'll do much better in the East.

Look at Jermaine O'Neal

Just Opinions

by Option27 on Jul 31, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What has J. O'neal done in the East?!
*  I don't think I've ever seen him in the Finals
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

5 all stars?
or more like 2 1/2

Garnett...one of the best players in the league, no doubt

But ray allan is over the hill, J-Rich and Z-bo (much as I love my state boys) have their faults, and neither have been to an ASG, with due reason

Finally Rashard lewis was na all star 2 years ago, as the 12th guy in, and is like a homeless man's t-mac (yes, i stole the homeless man from sportsguy, but it works)

by milesgmsu on Jul 31, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

"due reason"
Because most people are sleeping when the Warriors and Trailblazers play. Enough with judging players by fan voting.

Ray Allen isn't over the hill. He was hurt for almost half of 06-07, but he did score a career best 26.2 PTS/40.

by hscs on Jul 31, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Allen
I had him on my fantasy team so had reason to track, he can still shoot and score and was statistically playing very well before his injuries.  I agree that I would not discount him based on age, I think he could be very good on offense still and with his 3 pt shot will be good off Pierce/KG double teams

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 31, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

not all stars
In terms of power forwards; who were you vote out of the all star game in place of z-bo.....nowitzki? garnett? duncan? marion? amare? yao? pau? brand? melo?... the only possible players i'd put z-bo ahead of were boozer or okur, and both were having career years (not to mention the fact that they're team wasn't 20 games below 500...they were winning a division)

as for j-rich, there's a better case for him to be in the ASG, but injuries have played too large a role in his career. Clearly he's behind AI, t-mac, kobe, nash, parker, deron, paul, smush (hah!). IN terms of wings, he's probably only behind kobe and t-mac; but the west front court is too loaded for him to sneak in as a forward, and the backcourt tends to be heavy on the PGs in the west to dish to the front court; the good 2 guards tend to play in the east

j-rich's only possible claim to an all star season was 05-06 with 23 ppg, 3 dimes, a steal, and 6 boards  but 3 tos....not great numbers especially on what was then a terrible team.

His career numbers of 18, 5, and 3 are nothing to sneeze at, but def. not all star #'s

by milesgmsu on Jul 31, 2007 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't vote for anyone
because I don't care. There's no such thing as "all star #'s." You were hitting the nail on the head with the Tim Duncan and Dirk are better part.

by hscs on Jul 31, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ray Allen is
Ray Allen is always injured!  He is an old 33.  He doesn't play defense.  He's simply a spot up shooter!  

 Career Season Averages  
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
96-97 MIL 82 81 30.9 0.430 0.393 0.823 1.2 2.8 4.0 2.6 0.9 0.1 1.82 2.70 13.4
97-98 MIL 82 82 40.1 0.428 0.364 0.875 1.5 3.4 4.9 4.3 1.4 0.2 3.21 3.00 19.5
98-99 MIL 50 50 34.4 0.450 0.356 0.903 1.1 3.1 4.2 3.6 1.1 0.1 2.44 2.30 17.1
99-00 MIL 82 82 37.4 0.455 0.423 0.887 1.0 3.4 4.4 3.8 1.3 0.2 2.23 2.30 22.1
00-01 MIL 82 82 38.2 0.480 0.433 0.888 1.2 4.0 5.2 4.6 1.5 0.2 2.49 2.30 22.0
01-02 MIL 69 67 36.6 0.462 0.434 0.873 1.2 3.3 4.5 3.9 1.3 0.3 2.30 2.30 21.8
02-03 MIL 47 46 35.8 0.437 0.395 0.913 1.0 3.7 4.6 3.5 1.2 0.2 2.49 3.20 21.3
02-03 SEA 29 29 41.3 0.441 0.351 0.920 1.7 3.9 5.6 5.9 1.6 0.1 2.79 2.40 24.5
03-04 SEA 56 56 38.4 0.440 0.392 0.904 1.2 3.9 5.1 4.8 1.3 0.2 2.79 2.40 23.0
04-05 SEA 78 78 39.3 0.428 0.376 0.883 1.0 3.4 4.4 3.7 1.1 0.1 2.19 2.10 23.9
05-06 SEA 78 78 38.7 0.454 0.412 0.903 0.9 3.3 4.3 3.7 1.4 0.2 2.41 1.90 25.1
06-07 SEA 55 55 40.3 0.438 0.372 0.903 1.0 3.5 4.5 4.1 1.5 0.2 2.80 2.10 26.4
Career -- 790 786 37.5 0.446 0.397 0.888 1.2 3.4 4.6 3.9 1.3 0.1 2.46 2.40 21.5
All-Star -- 7 0 20.9 0.381 0.288 0.800 0.7 1.7 2.4 2.6 1.3 0.3 1.57 1.60 13.9

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

A few stats
Also FG% Paul Pierce = 44%

Ray Allen = 45%

* Not very impressive

With all the love Ray Allen gets you would think he would be at least 50%.  

Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Jul 31, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

East is better now
My point was that the East is better now than it was in April and May.  Maybe those five guys aren't going to instantly turn their teams into title contenders, but they are talented players who have come into the conference.  That should make it harder to win games in the East.

by nateroth on Jul 31, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Should have said
all-star caliber.

But the East didn't lose anyone like that to the West, unless you include Iverson.  

by nateroth on Jul 31, 2007 11:34 AM CDT reply actions  

true, lots of ways to build a contender
However, Pax seems to be choosing "let's just hope our guys get better", which absolves him from having to make hard choices about which of the current players are truly capable of leading a team to a championship.  

by Fred Manrique on Jul 31, 2007 12:52 PM CDT reply actions  

are you ready to make the choice now?
seems hasty. Another season and we'll know a lot more.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 31, 2007 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

what more do you need to know?
Most of the core players are known quantities:  Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, Smith, Wallace.  Deng and Tyrus are the only two about who "we'll know a lot more" after another year--but by that point, Big Ben will just be another year older with an albatross of a contract.  So why stand pat (which is essentially what Pax has done) while the East is still weak?  If you can upgrade the team by trading one or more of the known quantities while holding onto Deng and Tyrus, why not do it?

(I'm not considering the rookies to be "core players" at this point.)

by Fred Manrique on Jul 31, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree...

While we will see internal improvement, (esp from Deng and Tyrus), I would have preferred a more aggressive approach where we went after KG. Rather than waiting to see how much better we can be next year, I think we should have tried to leapfrog to the top in a more direct way (like Boston is tryign to). Wasn't that the whole idea of stockpiling young assets?? In fact we have the depth that Boston didn't, so if we could have retained Deng and one more core player, we would have had enough supporting talent. Though I do admit I don't know if this was even a possibility in practice, so this is mere conjecture.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Jul 31, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

RealGm/ Trib
is reporting that McHale turned down another bulls offer for KG before the trade dealine

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070730smith,1,5064963.column?coll =cs-bulls-headlines

granted its sam smith

by milesgmsu on Jul 31, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

the core
should start being meaningless when thabo, tyrus and noah develop.  those are the three that could make things different for the bulls.  Oh, not to mention gordon is also a gym rat and is always trying to improve, so he might slowly break out and play like gilbert arenas.

I dont really understand though why everyone here seems to be crowning the bulls as the best team in the east. Way too many unkowns.  To say we are going to improve while everyone else isn't is really presumptious.  Even detroit might have a real breakout seasn witha surprising stuckey, and maxiel lending them more bench firepower.  Kristic was one of the most improved players before he was injured and if starts scoring 18 points a game down low, the nets are a very scary team.  Why does everyone here assume that all the competetive teams in the east except the celtics have remained at their current level.

by Sambossanova on Jul 31, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

bc
the pistons are coached by a moron who makes skiles rotations seem genius, not to mention got older

heat downgraded at PG, and got older

cavs did nothing....literally

NJN got older

Tor prolly slipped a little losing Mopete for Kapono

by milesgmsu on Jul 31, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

bc
We are on a Bulls blog and are a bunch of homers.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Propers to 1958ChiTown, aka "Na Naaa Na Na," father of the Three Winged Swan.

by preverbal on Jul 31, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hollinger qualitative top 5...
from his chat today:

"Greg (Dundas, Ontario): How would you rank the top five teams in the East now?

 John Hollinger: Too early to say definitely since everyone's still shopping, but off the top of my head, with no numbers to back me up other than my intuition, I'll say Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, Toronto."

meh... I'll buy that the first four are compete for homecourt in the last month of the regular season...

by micah on Jul 31, 2007 4:31 PM CDT reply actions  

KG will be on sportscenter at 5.
I think the Kobe trade talks will be comming back.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 31, 2007 5:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Has any team tested the CBA with 3 max players
before, the way this Celts team does in the next three years? (Knicks don't count). I calculate their payroll = $67.7M, if they sign the two 2nd round rooks. So they're right at the tax threshold with 11 men (two more needed?) PLUS whatever part of KG's trade kicker Minni doesn't pay (as much as $5M). No one knows his exact extension, but they'll be paying LT 'til 2011 for sure, given the yearly increases to Pierce and Allen.

I'd assumed the CBA (and Max definition) was set up so you couldn't succeed/survive with 3 on a roster, and KG's is extra-max, being "grandfathered in" from earlier! Though they're over, it doesn't seem they'll be punished too severely. If they make the 2nd round, they should see about $6M in extra revenue, I think.

Plenty of good teams have a big three, but none have been/are being as highly compensated as these, right? I don't blame the players when they go for max $$, but as they're signing, they must also realise it limits their team's potential. Obviously, the stars disagree, and I must admit the Celts could make the Finals next year over the winner of the Central. I think this makes for a very interesting test. And Kobe's gotta be going nuts watching.

by marionette on Jul 31, 2007 7:10 PM CDT reply actions  

The Suns may be close
with Nash, Amare and Marion.  And they gave big deals to a couple of people they shouldn't have.

by KT on Jul 31, 2007 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Suns Salary
From Sham Sports:

Marion's making 16.4 mill
Stoudemire 13.7 mil
Nash 11.3 mil

with all three salaries going up in the upcoming years.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/suns.jsp

by KT on Jul 31, 2007 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I always find myself
resisting mention of my "other team" on this blog. But, as you may guess from my moniker, I'm well and painfully aware of the Suns' payroll. But (as you imply?) their situation differs in that there's money left to reward the other guys.

                   07/08    08/09    09/10    10/11    11/12

Allen           $16M    $17.4M   $18.8M     --
Pierce        $16.4M   $18.1M   $19.8M  $21.5M
Garnett       $22M     $24M?        ???         ???        ????

Then they pay Perkins $4M or so, Scalabrine $3M or so, and the rest is all rookie contracts. And STILL they'll pay LT!!! Basically, three guys get $20M...and the rest...

Spurs, Suns, and others have a "big 3" that are well compensated, but not like the current Celts. (Marion and Stoudemire top out at $17M, Nash $13M). So this seems an unprecidented situation to me. The ironic thing is, if they succeed, it'll be equally based on role players receiving no hype and little credit.

by marionette on Aug 1, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay
Garnett's extension years are actually for less $$ than Allen and Pierce, so I've calmed somewhat. But KG said it's his "best chance to make the Finals" (and not win?), but I still think his options would've been better in a year.

by marionette on Aug 2, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another issue of max contracts
Is the moveability of a contract and the problem of trying to go to a team that is better than the current one while matching huge salaries.  Though it's easy to say, I think I would do a descending contract, and take something that would be less than market value, for a trade clause and the ease of switching teams.  If KG made $12M/year, he very well might have a ring now, a team like the Lakers could move Odom and change to get him, including lots of draft picks to even the trade out.
Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Jul 31, 2007 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is my point
and what I don't understand. Hasn't KG's career so far taught him that it might not be wise to eat up 1/3 of the team paroll, if you wanna have a good team? (It takes five......). If he'd played out this year he could've practically picked his team at a reduced (reasonable?) fee.

But I've never been in a position to decide between taking an extra $5M per, or playing with Kobe, Nash, Baby Bulls or whoever gets you a ring. Or driven a Lamborgini at 200mph with my head out the window.

by marionette on Aug 1, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

There are limits to trade clauses
in the current CBA, I think. Kobe has one, but KG doesn't. So there's more to it than 8 years with one team. (?)

by marionette on Aug 1, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

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