Joe Smith is a Bull

by cubbybear on Jul 14, 2007 1:02 AM CDT Comment 159 comments

[I combined the two Joe Smith diaries into one, Vangelis' is after the 'read more'.

I think it's time he (we) got over the #1 pick label, it was like 12 years ago. KC says 'classy veteran', heh. Not sure what to think right now in terms of rotatation and young-guy-burying. I'm just pleased it's a 2-year deal (David Aldridge reports 2yrs/$10m) which is excellently short. -Matt]

Offseason is now effectively over for the Bulls. Though Billy King reportedly wanted to keep Joe Smith around, we signed him for likely the Mid-Level Exception.

Joe Smith, the former #1 Pick, is considered one of the bigger busts in NBA history. He went to college in Maryland, and is generally known around the NBA as good guy, as I've heard.

Vangelis:

Excellent video (San Fransisco local TV channel, 9 minutes) with news report, analysis and interviews back from 1995

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EppuEpuYPf4

OK, this guy is not a superstar but will definitely help us a lot.

Pros

Unselfish, blue-collar attitude
Long reach, athletic
Good Rebounding (career average 7, last year 6.2 Vs PJ's 4.8)
He CAN score (career average 12.1, last year 8.5 Vs PJ's 6.1). OK he won't be double teamed but he is one of those players that will score against you if you ignore him
This is a Skile's type of player, good influence in the locker room, good for the young players (Noah, TT etc.)
Free throws (79.4% career)

Cons

Not very strong (but who cares when we have Big Ben alongside him?)
Perhaps not the great low-post player we were looking for (but watch out for Luol's and TT's development in this area)

Overall, I think this could be a great addition and is certainly an improvement to PJ.

This is a big guy that can run, score and rebound who is pretty decent on D and a genuinely good guy.

If you also add the size that Noah will provide and the improvement of TT and Luol, we could be on to something here...

Vangelis
(the biggest fan of the Bulls in Europe??)

Poll

How happy are you with the Bulls' offseason moves?

Very Happy

33 votes

Pretty Happy

134 votes

Meh

81 votes

A little dissapointed

24 votes

Paxson is going down!!!!!!

6 votes

278 votes | Poll has closed

FanPosts are user-created posts from the BlogABull community, and are to be treated as the opinions and views of that particular user, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Comments

Sweeeeeet!

who is he? jk well does he own a sky hook? jk well I guess. Joe, his name is Joe. He's bald we need one of them in a uni.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 14, 2007 2:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

damn check out is last 3 games

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joe_smith/index.html

26 26 17 nice if I read that right.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 14, 2007 2:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I jumped the gun

last 2, they have a typo I think. so 26pts and 17pts 11 bounds.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 14, 2007 2:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still, Smith's April stats aren't bad...

If you look at his season split averages, he averaged 14.5 pts, 9 rebs. His last 5 games? 15.8 and 9.6

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/joe_smith/season_splits.html

In Pax We Trust! DAAA BULLS!

by RingItUp26 on Jul 14, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

<sarcasm> This is the move to put the Bulls over the top! Joe Smith!</sarcasm>

Do we really need him and Nocioni on the same team?

How many minutes does this leave Thomas and Noah? I could see Skiles using Nocioni a lot as an undersize power forward, I see Wallace getting 30 -35 min, Nocioni getting 20 -25 min, Smith getting 20 - 25 min, so that's 70 - 85 min. There is 96 minutes for the 4 and the 5 so that leaves 26- 11 minutes for Thomas and Noah, possibly up to 36 minutes if Nocioni plays 10 minutes at the 3? Is that enough burn for our 2 young guys?

With this signing, Nocioni getting overpaid, and the draft (I'm over this) I have no idea what the hell is going on?

by Wade.Jones on Jul 14, 2007 3:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah!

<sarcasm> Let's go with a complete youth movement and not fillout the roster.

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does this post mean

That the sarcasm never ends? ;)

by cubbybear on Jul 15, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

noooooooooooooooo

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Consolidation, growth and improvement

What is happening is called consolidation, growth and improvement dude.

What we will see is the same group of players from last year (but vastly improved.. you wait and see Kirk, Luol, TT, BG and Thabo in 2008..)
plus...

more size with the addition of Noah and Joe Smith who whilst not a superstar is an IMPROVEMENT on PJ.

Well done to Pax and Skiles for NOT making any dramatic changes. You do not accumulate all this talent and then let it go before it reaches its peak (Kirk, BG & Luol are still developing and this will only be TT's and Thabo's 2nd year).

The Bulls are already better than they were last year. This team will winn 55+ games next year and will win a Championship in the next 5 years.

Vangelis
(The No 1 fan of the Bulls in Europe??)

by Vangelis on Jul 14, 2007 4:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My man Vangelis has it right!

by chgobr on Jul 14, 2007 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My question is who is in and who is out?

Joe Smith
Noah
Gray
Curry

Out for sure
PJ Brown
Sweetney

Out Maybe
Malik Allen
Andre Barrett

Out partying
Duhon

by boerwinkle on Jul 14, 2007 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Sweets

is in because if he accepts his qualifying offer he will have an expiring contract. I think Gray will be headed to the Energy because there will be no room for him to play. The roster in my opinion on opening day will be:

C: BigBen/Noah/Sweets
PF: Smith/Tyrus/Noc
SF: Deng/Noc/Sef
SG: Gordon/Sef/Curry
PG: Hinrick/Duhon/Curry

13-15: Barrett, Kryapa, Marty

by LD9 on Jul 14, 2007 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sweets did not get a qualifying contract

Andre Barrett did though. And no offer to Marty either. See the transactions lists at Real GM:

http://www.realgm.com/src_recent_transactions/2007/06/

by KT on Jul 14, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Southtown guy

needs to do a better job because they reported he did get one. It was mentioned in a previous thread.

by LD9 on Jul 14, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if you're in the NBDL

and 'assigned' by a team, you still have to get a roster spot.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot about...

Griffin. He has a guaranteed deal.

by MMP on Jul 14, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmm

Smith/Noah/Gray
Wallace/Thomas/Williams
Deng/Nocioni/Griffin
Gordon/Sefolosha/Cage
Hinrich/Duhon/Curry

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jul 14, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forgot about Veektor

and i know Joe Smith is taller, but Wallace is the center.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smith is more

of a forward than a center, Wallace will still be the starting center.

by bu11s on Jul 14, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

Other than that, I think he's got it right. I'm not excited about Joe Smith, but considering what's out there, and that it's only for 2 years at the MLE, it was a good pickup.

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Williams?

Has he been signed? Do we need him?

by cubbybear on Jul 15, 2007 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

quick take on the roster

Wallace/Noah/Gray
Smith/Thomas/Khryapa
Deng/Nocioni/Griffin
Gordon/Sefolosha
Hinrich/Duhon/Curry

That's 14 players. They may keep it that way so there's a roster spot open. Or Sweetney can accept his qualifying offer (it's a possibility, I can't see him getting more than that money from another team) which would at least give them expiring contracts.

Expiring:
Sweetney: $3.65m
Duhon: $3.25m
Khryapa: $1.93m

(plus the 2nd rounders, and who knows, maybe Griffin's last year isn't guaranteed. That'd be nice)

Why did Nocioni get a 5 year deal again? :)

Either way, this roster is on Skiles now. He's had problems playing the right guys in the past and sticking with the veterans. We'll see how Tyrus/Noah get time and how they use it. They'll be winning a lot, so maybe that'll cure most ills.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 10:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ben Wallace

The more I look at the roster, salaries, trades possiblities, etc., the more I don't like the Ben Wallace signing. Nobody else will take him at the salary of a star player. That bothers me much more than the Nocioni deal (which is not unreasonable in today's NBA).

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

why

Wallace is loads better and is our starting center, is only signed for 3 more seasons. Noc is for 5.

Yes you can't trade Wallace (maybe in his final year but that's a stretch seeing the past few years of max-contract expirations) but so what he's a very good player and the Bulls need him. They don't need Nocioni nearly as much.

I wouldn't even compare the two contracts but you started it :-p

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At this point...

calling Wallace a very good player is a bit liberal. His beastly rebounding and shot blocking games are getting to be few and far between. But the front loaded contract makes it easier to swallow.

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

calling Noc a good player is liberal too

Wallace is so much of a better and smarter defensive player than Nocioni that it's not worth comparing.

Again, I don't see the point in comparing the guys anyway. They're at different levels of pay and play entirely different positions.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stop!

How about moving on to how Skiles (as you alluded to Matt)gets this team to mesh, because the team is set and the aforementioned players are, SIGNED. Last year's poor start had a lot to do with 8 news guys and of course, the circus trip. I'm encouraged by the continuity this year and think that J. Smith fits right in and is an upgrade to PJ.

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace is slowing down some in raw stats

But his impact on the team as a whole is really why he's here. He's a stabilizing and mature force on the floor and in the locker room. The Bulls were better on offensive efficiency this year, as well as defensive efficiency. That's an impact he had something to do with. Rebounding gave us quick fast breaks, and he was rarely completely unguarded on offense. I still think the contract was a bit big, but a sign-and-trade for Bosh-James-Wade in two years(might have the year wrong) might be easier to do if the team gets back a still formidable player in Wallace. He's not a horrible contract for a team that wants something substantial in return. And his intangible effects on the team are something we can only guess, but I think he's changed the attitude of the team somewhat for the better.

by cubbybear on Jul 15, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they wont be trading for wallace

they'll be trading for $8M expiration....and we're not going to be able to get wade/bron/bosh in a s & t...we're going to have to throw the moon (is than an expression) at them....

i don't see any superstars of that caliber in a bully uni

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

on the flip side

I like that two years in a row, Pax has been able to get his main target in free agency. This is a good team, especially in the East, and only getting better.

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles might push for Cliff Robinson

by hscs on Jul 14, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we'll need him to guard Tim Duncan

in the finals.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh no

No more washed up veterans for Skiles to over utilize!

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh

I will say that Cliff would fit in the PJ/AntonioDavis mold, but that Joe Smith is far less of a corpse than those guys.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the thing is the Bulls

don't need Antonio Davis anymore. Joe Smith is corpsey enough for me.

by hscs on Jul 14, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I brought up those guys as what not to have. I can't even talk myself into giving them the last roster spot because of Skiles' temptations.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

or julio franco

by milesgmsu on Jul 14, 2007 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahah

Can you hustle with a walker?

by cubbybear on Jul 15, 2007 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PJ

I felt pretty comfortable with PJ though. I know Joe Smith is more skilled, but defensively, I'm not sure how well he can guard the stronger PF's. He's lasted in the league this long though, so I guess he'll be solid enough in that area.

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The bigger question is who

else besides Wallace can put a body on someone. It's not a huge priority in the Bulls defense system. Quickness is far more important, but sometimes you do need to push a player out of the paint.

by Scotter on Jul 14, 2007 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I liked PJ too

I personally think he's underappreciated...I thought he was very competent defensively, especially on the ball. I was happy with his rebounding as well. Offensively I was comfortable with him taking the 12-15 footers cuz he'd make a lot of them and that is an important element if any offense.

But he was slow-footed and a bit vertically challenged, even at 6' 11". Didn't have much of a post game, or much of anything else outside of the 15-footer.

IMO, PJ's value was always found in his rebounding, solid on-the-ball defending and ability to establish a very necessary element in the offense. I haven't seen Joe Smith play all that much during his NBA career, but I hope he brings everything PJ did. The fact this guy is a better scorer than PJ means little IMO if he can't d-up and rebound like PJ did. We got dudes who score...but IMO you can't have enough big guys who rebound and play defense at a respectable level.

by Starred4Life on Jul 20, 2007 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In somewhat related news...

Mikki Moore just signed a 3 year $18mil contract according to the Newark Star Ledger (no link, I live in New Jersey). Again, I'm glad Pax got who he wanted and at reasonable terms (salary + years).

by bigballa10 on Jul 14, 2007 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yuh

http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/7/14/0322/81834

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man, did I put that in the wrong diary.

The team has five guys who can play center and power forward.

They also have two guys who can back up tolerably (gulp!) a 37 mpg SF.

I think this certainly means Aaron Gray isn't going to play much this year.

Minutes to go around:

Center
Wallace - 33; Noah - 10; Smith - 5 = 48
Smith - 15; Thomas - 15; Nocioni - 13; Noah - 5 = 48
Deng - 37; Nocioni - 7; Sefolosha - 4 = 48
Gordon - 35; Duhon - 8; Sefolosha - 5 = 48
Hinrich - 35; Duhon - 8; Sefolosha - 5 = 48

Admittedly they won't equal 48 per position exactly because of the overtimes. But that's a 10-deep rotation. And that's limiting Nocioni to twenty minutes and Duhon to sixteen. Does anyone think that will happen? Noah, Thomas and Sefo only getting ~15 mpg. Where's room for Curry and Gray?

I know it's absolutely impossible to predict playing, especially on a per-minute basis, but I don't think it's crazy to try and guess. Do you think Paxson did something like this? Or did he just say... "I said I wouldn't lose Noce for nothing, and I'm not going to, dammit. Oh wait, I still need a tall power forward."

Man, I kind of/sort of like the Joe Smith signing, but it really does make the Nocioni signing look even worse.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 14, 2007 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

agree on your last point

although the correct answer to 'what happens to hawes and gray?' should always be 'who gives a shit'.

They're roster filler, and hopefully helpful if somebody gets hurt.

We'll see how Skiles handles things, one thing we can count on is that it'll be completely different between the beginning and ends of the season.

For my sanity I'll just fantasize that Tyrus gets all the backup PF minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh, hawes

I meant Curry and Gray, obviously.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 14, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

obviously

you were rooting for hawes to get picked all along and are still upset about it. Its ok. I sort of did too at times.

by Sambossanova on Jul 14, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you on this one Matt

Thomas needs to get more minutes than 10 minutes of burn, I also think Noah needs to get his minutes. I see no problem with having 4 veterns on the floor at all time and for the most part having Noah or Thomas on the floor. It would let them develop faster and it would improve this team greatly for the run during the playoffs.

by Wade.Jones on Jul 14, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas can play center sometimes

With the dreaded three-guard lineup or with a smaller squad on the floor.

by cubbybear on Jul 15, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PLay Atlanta Hawks style

Tyrus at center, noce at Pf, Deng at Sf, Thabo at SG, and Kirk at PG

Sweet.

by Sambossanova on Jul 15, 2007 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point.

I got caught up too much in the hype. As long as they get PT in the D-League and stay on the team, and have a chance for next year (replacing Duhon and Khryapa, at least), I'm better with it.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 14, 2007 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My hope with this signing.....

Is that Nocoini gets almost no playing time at PF. I see Joe Smith as being a younger version of PF. (Still very tin man like)

If what is true coming out of the summer league, that Tryus is developing well, he should get 22 minutes a night.

Smith should get about 20 minutes per game, and Nocioni should get about 6 minutes (at PF). I would hate to see Skilles pull a Dusty Baker and play veterns he "likes", b/c they "hustle".

Also, I would like to see Deng get about 38 - 40 minutes a night. Nocioni should be playing 15 minutes a game MAX.

by ScottSkilles Hair on Jul 14, 2007 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You're paying

a guy 7 mil a year for 15 min a game. Not gonna happen. He'll play about 25 mpg.

by kingj41 on Jul 14, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully the Bulls are deep enough

to not need Deng playing 40 minutes only a nightly basis.

And I agree that 15 mpg is too little for someone making over $7m a year and Noc is better than that when not plagued by foot problems.

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn it, this means fewer minutes for Tyrus.

We really didn't need Smith. Now he'll be in the game because he "makes good decisions" and "doesn't turn the ball over," meaning Tyrus - the best shot we have for a truly marquee frontline superstar - will be riding the pine.

I wanted Tyrus to at least get 25 MMP this year. That was still possible when he was only splitting minutes with Noce, but now I can't see it happening. Rather annoying.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 14, 2007 12:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Glass is half full..

I tend to have a little more faith in Skiles. Yes, I hated the excess Duhon and Brown minutes, but have also seen Skiles give big minutes to very young/NBA-inexperienced guys in Hinrich, Deng, Noc and Gordon. I think it's going to be hard to keep TT off the court this year.

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He had no alternatives back then

all he had was his young players.

by Scotter on Jul 14, 2007 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

he could have just played the inferior, veteran player back then. My point is that Skiles will put the best player on the floor.

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No he won't

Ben Gordon started under a vastly inferior player, Nocioni limped through more minutes than Tyrus Thomas in the playoffs, every time Pargo played, etc.

by hscs on Jul 14, 2007 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoops

a vastly inferior player started over Gordon.

Skiles plays crap way too much, and it's his biggest fault.

by hscs on Jul 14, 2007 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, this team

has really underachieved given the rotation. In all seriousness, I get more excited watching TT and Gordon too.

by EdNealy on Jul 15, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

whoops

just noticed that I had already mentioned that I didn't like the excess Duhon/Brown minutes in my original post (which you usually don't look at in your efforts to spew vast wisdom) and that the main point is that it will be harder and harder for Skiles not to play the best player. Heck I'm going to start calling hip hscs (Hot Shit Coach Skiles).

by EdNealy on Jul 15, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh

Ed, you're hitting the post button just like me. Feel free to apply the 'coach' label to yourself too.

by hscs on Jul 15, 2007 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

Just applying that label to Coach Skiles (might have been more clear had I typed him and not hip). And I think he's hot shit.

by EdNealy on Jul 15, 2007 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like Skiles, but

he is typically going to play the individual who makes the least number of mistakes. Conservative rotations may, in fact, maximize the chance of winning the game in question, but it isn't the best way to develop young talent or maximize long-term success. So I fear that TT's evolution may be retarded.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 14, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

fewer minutes for Tyrus and Noah. The arteries of our team are getting clogged. My only hope is that all this "resource acquisition" is prelude to a trade. Though of course that's the line Isaiah has been giving NYC for the past years, and it hasn't quite panned out....

by Freethefro on Jul 14, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Paxson whats Tyrus

to play more, we'll see how Skiles handles it?

by exult463 on Jul 14, 2007 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

"wants" not "whats"

by exult463 on Jul 14, 2007 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes?

Ty only playing 13.5 mpg again would be surprising. In four games last year as a starter, he averaged 20:18 minutes, 57.1 FG%, 5.8 rebounds, and 7.8 points.

Assuming that Noah, Noc, and Thabo (since Thabo can play the 3 if needed) are good off the bench, I'd rather see Ty start at PF and have Smith come in off the bench.

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Woah

This is what I wake up to?!

I sleep in for one day and all of a sudden, the Bulls make their only free agency move?

Initial thoughts : Thank God it wasn't Mihm. I'm kinda excited to see what he can bring to this team. This must also mean no more PJ Brown. And for those who think he's going to take major minutes away from Tyrus or Noah, I don't think he will due to his average defense. Skiles always favors the one eho can play defense

And the contract is pretty good too for a player lke Smith!

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 14, 2007 1:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You slept til

1:30pm?

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

off season

There is still the Duhon trade that we are waiting to happen. Frankly if you ask me, they might keep duhon and then try mid season trade. They will then probably trade one of Khryapa/Sweetney and duhon, maybe smith/noah/tyrus and possibly deng or gordon for real help. That would be a nice combo of rookie contracts, expiring contracts and talent.

by Sambossanova on Jul 14, 2007 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's what I was thinking.

Duhon, Khryapa and Sweetney (if he's still a part of the team) are even more expendable now. You add a contract or a "prospect" or a draft pick to that, and you hav a not-so-horrible expiring package.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 14, 2007 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scola

By the way, Scola is coming close to finishing agreement that will pay him 9 million over three years. A good amount of the first year being set aside for his contract buyout (reportedly around 3 million) Meanwhile we get old joe for two years at 10 million....erggggh.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4967808.html

Maddening

by Sambossanova on Jul 14, 2007 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I hate Houston even more now.

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Duhon to Houston?

I read here that the Bulls reportedly offered Duhon to Houston.

I don't know if it was for Scola or tried to get involved in a three way or maybe for someone else totally. But yeah, kinda interesting.

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 14, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Houston got Butler in the deal,

but getting him doesn't make sense since the Bulls have: Wallace, Ty, Krap-ya, Noc, Deng, Noah, Smith, Thabo, and Gray around to cover the 3-5 spots. Could just be insurance in case Noah ends up going under the knife though.

Houston has a lot of players that could be included in a deal for Du's $3m, so not really much point in trying to guess who.

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh?

Kinda like the Gasol non-trade. The Bulls didn't have, or weren't willing to give, what the Spurs wanted.

In an even world, Scola's gotta be the better deal. But with the other considerations (trade pieces), maybe it wasn't even possible.

But I understand you're issues with it.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 14, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Improvement

Apparently the Bulls aren't looking to improve much if Joe Smith is "thought to be the top free-agent priority of the Bulls this off-season": http://thenewsroom.com/details/496578?c_id=wom-bc-bh?c_id=wom-bc-bh
- Brad from The Sports Desk at TheNewsRoom.com

by akhilleus13 on Jul 14, 2007 2:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Who gets

the most playing time will depend on who is giving the most effort and helping this team win. But then again it is Skiles coaching this team and there was no rhyme or reason to his substitutions last year so I guess we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out.

I know nothing about Smith so I can't say if this is a good signing or not.

by sue369 on Jul 14, 2007 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Great signing for the bulls

does anyone remember Wallace is OLD and WASN'T giving skiles supreme effort last year. Now we can play ty at the five in a small ball lineup. Plenty Minutes for everyone during the season as fatigue and injuries play huge factors. WE have
assembled a team with multiple parts playing multiple roles. Noah allows Ben to rest smith and replaces P.J. and malik allen. Skiles has always mixed and match now he has better pieces to do it with.

Wallace - 28; Noah - 9; Smith - 5 Thomas-3 = 48
Thomas - 15; Smith - 12; Deng-5 Nocioni-7; Noah-5 = 48
Deng - 32; Nocioni - 12; Thomas-4= 48
Gordon - 27; Hinrich-8; Sefolosha-7; Nocioni-6= 48
Hinrich - 29; Gordon-10; Sefolosha-9 = 48

Totals:

Player MPG POS
Deng- 37 3/4
Gordon- 37 2/1
Hinrich- 37 2/1
Wallace - 28 5
Nocioni - 25 3/4/2
Thomas- 22 4/3/5
Smith- 17 4/5
Sefolosha- 16 1/2/3
Naoh- 9 5/4

by Blacknight23 on Jul 14, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure I'd want Noc at the 2

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

NOCE at 2

When Lil Ben is playing the point leading the scond team Thabo and NOCE will be on the floor at the same time. NOCE will play the role of spot up shooter and thats why he's listed under the 2.

by Blacknight23 on Jul 14, 2007 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noch

Will never play the 2.

I'm thrilled, now I can get a jersey with my name on the back!

by SouthSideIrish on Jul 15, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is up with all of this crying

over the noc deal. i will nake you a deal why dont we cut every one and make trades where the starting lineup would be
center dwight howard
pf tim duncan
sf sean marion
sg kobe bryant
pg tony parker

bench
d wade, lebron, carmello

Paxson and skiles turned this whole franchise around and all i hear is noc this tyrus that. lets acutally see what tyrus can do beyond dunking before we start crying about his development
Lets close the topic of noc and his contract and worry about something else

by glycen on Jul 14, 2007 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, it is

Matt's blog so he can cry if he wants too.

by sue369 on Jul 14, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said,

and he is.

by EdNealy on Jul 14, 2007 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We saw shot blocking, steals, and rebounds

along with all those dunks last season. Tyrus isn't Harold Miner. And don't discount the dunks. This team needs all the inside baskets it can get.

by Scotter on Jul 14, 2007 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

that tyrus did do all that and probably will do more and more of all that . infact he is a player that i have said is key for the bulls. i just meant to say we are complaining about the bulls deal with noc when we should be thinking that he along with alot of the core did do alot for the bulls and if we had lost him i can gaurantee that the bulls would take a huge step back.
Its just that i would rather read interesting opiniions about the bulls than alot of crying.

by glycen on Jul 14, 2007 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with Glycen...

... guys please quit the whining about Noce. He is here to stay (which the majority of Bulls fans think is a positive) and ALL of us will be cheering for him next season. Noce is to the Bulls what Dave DeBusschere was for the Knicks in the 70s.

Noce will not hinder TT's development, both are very versatile and this will be a great year for both, remember this is a team sport!!

Vangelis
(the No 1 Bulls fan in Europe?)

PS BTW, I didn't hear anyone complaining when a healthy Noce averaged 22.8 points & 9.6 rebounds in the 2006 playoffs...

by Vangelis on Jul 14, 2007 5:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I say Pax should trade him ;)

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 14, 2007 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the majority of fans are morons

and a few playoff performances are meaningless.

by hscs on Jul 14, 2007 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK.. but are you calling Pax & Skiles Morons?

... and also since when are playoff performances meaningless? There have only been a few because the Bulls in general have only had a "few" playoff appearances in the last few years.

It is J. Smith that will be "stealing" minutes from TT, not Noce (although I have confidence in Skiles to give TT the minutes that he deserves).

I just find it amazing that a surprisingly large number of people seem to have completely "missed the point" of Nocioni.

Noce is a very important asset to the Bulls and an integral part of the team chemistry. He drops decent numbers (14.1 pts & 5.7 rebounds last year while battling plantar fasciitis) but his main contribution is the intangibles he brings to the Bulls (intensity, aggressiveness, effort, passion, defense).

You could find a number of players with similar stats for $38 mil, but very few people in the entire League can match Nocioni's heart.

Vangelis
(the No 1 Bulls fan in Europe?)

PS I also can't believe the criticism against Skiles for "giving too many minutes to veterans over young players"??!! You gotta be kidding me... The whole team and its future is based on its young core... TT and Thabo were getting meaningful minutes deep into the playoffs..
If Skiles ever reads our blogs, he must be wishing he had actually had some hair on his head so he could be pulling them out!!

by Vangelis on Jul 15, 2007 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you, sir, are a madman.

by hscs on Jul 15, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why

So what you do in playoffs doesn't matter?

Isn't a guys ability to step up and perform when it counts important?

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

its not all about stats

its about being able to help your team win! This is obviously what Pax believes because they consistantly gone for players who have experience on winning college programs and Noc was on sucessful internation teams.

I know some people hate the word "intangibles" but the difference between a good and a great basketball team in NBA is not that much. Its important to have players with confidence in themselves and the team to do what it takes to WIN

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we could throw out

meaningless cliches and consider the defender in 2006 (Antoine Walker) as well as small sample size.

by hscs on Jul 15, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who cares about cliches?

its about winning!

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What a great point!!!

Noc's contract and declining value will hamper this team's ability to win from 2009 and beyond.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 15, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

You might be right. Hopefully Noc will come back healthy and still have many good seasons left.

I also suspect the salary cap to continue to rise so we might not think the contract is as much in 3 years

time will tell

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2007 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh, Noc

washed up after only 3 years in the league at the age of 27.

by EdNealy on Jul 16, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Except that...

near the end of Nocioni's contract, the salary cap will have expanded multiple times, making his salary a much smaller percentage of the overall cap. Less of an albatross than all of the Chicken Littles around here would have you believe, IMO.

by ChrisRobin on Jul 16, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, winning,

the ultimate cliche.

I wanna dress like Joakim!

by preverbal on Jul 16, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you involved in basketball?

How do you know what has meaning and doesn't?

I would expect not all Bulls fans to agree and everyone has certain things about basketball or basketball players they enjoy or value more.

Its a sport, there is many ways to win.

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 15, 2007 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what is it

about a guy who's 6'7" and is all hustle, can drive the lane, shoots the 3-pointer well, gives max effort on the defensive end and is among the league leaders in charges taken?

Is it the 8 mil/year? If it is, you GOTS to have bigger fish to fry my friend cuz that ain't even your money your cryin' about! IMO Pax should have earned our benefit of the doubt at this point.

by Starred4Life on Jul 20, 2007 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see this as a Nocioni issue.

This is a Joe Smith issue.

I want Tyrus to start, not Joe Smith.

by 1958ChiTown on Jul 14, 2007 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PF minutes

Smith is a 20 minute guy, which leaves 28 left for Tyrus and Noc. Assuming Deng plays 35 minutes a night, Noc will get 13 minutes at small forward and if the plan is to get Noc 25 minutes he will get 12 at the power forward spot. That means Tyrus will get 16 minutes at power forward and could see 4 at center in a small ball lineup giving him 20 a game which is a sizeable increase.

by LD9 on Jul 14, 2007 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

those stats are somewhat misleading IMO

...I can't find the game-by-game stats right now but didn't Noce get like 30-something in game 1? And the rest of the series he points declined each game. It wasn't like he was putting up 23 in each playoff game.

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 16, 2007 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wish we could sign emeka okafor

Wallace, Deng, Hinrich, Thomas earing NBA accolades. Thomas, Gordon at All-Star weekend. A sweep of the Champs. One great year.

by hongydraw on Jul 15, 2007 2:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i was thinking about it

and i dont remember if anyone ever suggested this, but 6 months ago (and as late as before they acquired jrich), a gordon for emeka deal would have helped both teams immensely

by milesgmsu on Jul 15, 2007 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

except the team

that struggles to score and trades away their best scorer.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 15, 2007 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right and

picking up another defensive non-scoring big-man in return.

by EdNealy on Jul 15, 2007 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BOOM!

Shot down! Great team effort there

by Othellas Mustache on Jul 15, 2007 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they struggle

because they are all outside shooters, and teams can double up on gordon sometimes and he doesnt know what to do. Emeka would open up the floor and theyd be able to score easier. That was sort of the point of future of line up post that was useless. But the bulls would be a lot better off trading some talent for strategic talent even if its a little lesser talent.

by Sambossanova on Jul 15, 2007 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with

your point that the Bulls may need to move some talent for more strategic talent in the future, but I think Matt was saying (not putting words in his mouth) that moving your best offensive player for a "non-strategic" player doesn't make sense. Gordon is essentially one of the strategic players on the Bulls that you're referring to. A pure scorer on a, yes, offensively challenged team.

I had the unenviable experience of being at both the Bulls/Bobcats games last year. The 1st game showed how putrid Adam Morrison really was, the 2nd showed that Okafor plays great post defense and is a solid rebounder, but really limited offensively. He's non-existent outside of 5 ft.

by EdNealy on Jul 16, 2007 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

bulls didn't struggle to score

you know better than that matt...we were a middle of the road offensive team, and we get back a post prescense; however, I also posted that not thinking of the advances tryus made, which would make the trade now foolish

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

20th in Offensive Efficiency

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2007/o_oe.htm

They're still not even average. So no, I still say it's a silly idea, even if everyone would get warm feelings seeing a tall guy.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 16, 2007 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy on Noc

He is getting paid a lot for a bench player, but he is damn good. He is the only one on our team that gets in the face of the other team (thinking about him pushing Wade over). Ben Wallace was that guy when he played in Detroit, not anymore. Chapu's K is reasonable and front loaded.
The most over paid and over valued player on our team is Ben Wallace. People are talking about how imprtant playoff performance is, Big ben inked such a good deal to bring playoff experience, but it was Deng that got us past the Heat and it was Big Ben who disappeared against Detroit. At 6'9 he is too short and he is getting too old to bring the funk in the playoffs let alone for a whole year. Noah and Gray fill that hole for the future. and

We are scary deep right now. Once we see what Noah can do on the floor against pros I expect a trade. I am against trading Ben Gordon and would rather trade Hinrich and put BG at the point, but my thought is Gordon/Hinrich, Smith, and filler (Du!) for Andre Igoudala.

by Zac23 on Jul 15, 2007 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why do that trade?

by SRQman on Jul 15, 2007 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea

I don't see a point to doing that trade at all.

by fsubrett48 on Jul 15, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would

rather include Gordon in a blockbuster trade package to get a marque player in the 2 guard than trade Kirk.

Without Hinrich we won't have that valuable defender who could drop decent to superb offensive numbers while at the same time shutting down the opponent's 1 or 2 spot superstar player.

Why in the world would you want to trade a player like that?

Bulls Will Eat You For Breakfast

by Ronald on Jul 15, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon can not

play the point. That's just silly.

by sue369 on Jul 15, 2007 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i somewhat agree

I can't see BG at the full time point...however, a few times this past season when Kirk went out with foul trouble and BG switched to the 1, he did a decent job. So I don't think it's totally out of his realm to do it.

But full time point...you're right...that's silly

by ScottieCartwright on Jul 16, 2007 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he did a really decent job

for the other team

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just wondering

what kind of deal do you think Nocioni would have gotten if we did a Sign and trade with him instead of just signing him?? I am pretty sure it would be for roughly the same amount he got, maybe a little closer to 40 million since I heard reports that the grizz were offering him close to 40 million. So with that in mind, we can still include him in a trade after December 15th, and get back a premium player possibly KG (still dreaming of him in a bulls uniform). But if we didn't resign him, our dreams of getting that premium low post player without gutting our team would not be viable.

by fsubrett48 on Jul 15, 2007 2:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

and on a total side note

thank you so much Matt for having this blog site. I just joined a few weeks ago and I really appreciate all the work and time you and your staff have put into it. Keep up the good work!

by fsubrett48 on Jul 15, 2007 2:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

Matt is my hero and don't underestimate Matt's brilliance.

Just like Matt says, teh Internets are serious business!!!1!1!

by Colossus on Jul 15, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Calm Down Folks

What u guys aren't taking into account is the difference in this year's frontcourt and last years. Instead of PJ, we now have Joe. Instead of Malik Allen, we have Noah. And now we have a better TT. Joe Smith already said in his interview that when he met with Pax and Skiles that they didn't even talk about him starting or not. But everybody just automatcially believes that he is. There will be an open competition in camp for that spot.

To me even tho we didn't get that mythical "scoring post player", we did make an improvement in the overall frontcourt.

Stop bitchin Damn!

by Ceasaleo on Jul 15, 2007 3:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem is

We might look better on paper, but we arent any better off cause the players might be an upgrade but its not a good blend in the front line. Everyone is either undersized or offensively challenged. Hopefully Noah is better than everybody expects or we are just building assets for a nice big trade.

by Sambossanova on Jul 15, 2007 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

Deng was offensively challenged at first too. Big key is whether you see the same level of progression in the core-4, but more importantly Thomas and Sefalosha. They're actually sort of the same on paper.

by EdNealy on Jul 15, 2007 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we're taller and elss offensivley challenged

than last year

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Technically yes,

we're a bit taller, losing PJ and Malik's height (and I believe Sweetney is 7'0 if he were to lie down on his side) and adding Noah, Smith & Gray. While I see Smith having more potential offense then Brown, they still improve offensively only if the guys progress in the off season.

by EdNealy on Jul 16, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

when i read that bit about starting

i thought they meant they weren't concerned with it...it would sort itself out

by the way; BS has another thing to knock pax on...yet another lottery pick for us to bank success on ;-)

by milesgmsu on Jul 16, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

More improvements

Now if we could only find a broadcast team that will take Stacey King, I'll be a happy man.

by bigballa10 on Jul 15, 2007 4:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't mind Stacey.

by sue369 on Jul 15, 2007 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and he

doesn't mind hamburgers.

by EdNealy on Jul 16, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts

Smith might be a good replacement for sweetney, and i hope that is all he is. I havent found anything really great about him, but i did find that the 76ers coach really wanted him. That just means he has to be a "ill give it my all guy", and that is good. I mean if he is just as good as sweetney, but not as robust, and has a willingness to try hard, i think he will be a nice player to come off the bench sometimes (Which means, only when our jump shots arent falling, tyrus cant get close enough to the rim and score, and the other team is kicking out ass with a petty zone defense)

On nocioni, he is overpaid. But i like nocioni, and i think i will be happy if he is 100% come next season, however if he is not...paxson made a horrid mistake and should be fired...im sort of serious here.

On noah...he better be good. I dont know what he can do, but he better do it.

On hinrich, time to let loose, all star performance is no longer requested, it is being demanded.

On Thomas, his jumper seems to be getting better, and if he improves moving with the ball, and adds more weight....damn...i feel sorry for the person standing under that rim.

On Thabo, I am hoping he wont try anymore crazy spin moves, he was trying maybe too hard last season, its okay...lets take it nice and slow and wow the world.

On BG, get glue for your hands or something, that turnover ratio is disgusting. You are a shorty, so jump higher...i guess.

On Big Ben...TRY!!!!

On Deng...little by little he should expand that range...mid range is nice, three point is better...being a go to scorer....well that trumps all....do that...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jul 16, 2007 5:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Way too much bellyaching about Noce

There are tons of reasons why it was a prudent signing:

-- what if Deng goes down: would we win anything with Griff of Thabo at the SF spot?

-- what if Deng is in foul trouble

-- how much depth do we have at PF now? Basically, Skiles can throw three different looks -- small (Noc), big (Smith) or athletic (TT).

-- declining contract is a wise long-term move. Plus, he makes enough that he can easily be packaged with other contracts if a trade is necessary.

by ETownKickinIt on Jul 16, 2007 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You know why?

. . . . It's cause they all forgot the "Healthy Noc"!

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 16, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

shhhh...

With the exception of the gimpy playoff performances Nocioni's prodction and play didn't dropoff that much in 06-07. It's not like he was very mobile before the foot problem.

by hscs on Jul 16, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ohh

how soon we forget

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 16, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like nocioni

He is a good player, not an astounding one though. I think the biggest thing that upset me, and many others, was that he was signed before deng or gordon, that worries me. I also dont like the fact that shortly after he was resigned he started talking about how he might actually play ball in the olympic thingy....while before the signing he was just thinking about resting.

I like nocioni for all he can do, he is a good player off teh bench and can light it up real quick and piss the other team off and ruin thier chemistry and composure. however i think this only applies when he is healthy.

Even when healthy, it is scary watching him dribble the ball, and sometimes he gets into foul trouble too quickly.

Maybe if the term was shorter i would be more relieved.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jul 16, 2007 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Contract timing

Because Noc was being wooed by other teams, Pax had to act sooner in order to keep him. And if I'm not mistaken, the window to re-sign 3rd-year players to an extension is something like 9/1 to 11/1, isn't it?

by ETownKickinIt on Jul 16, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

there weren't any real offers

and Paxson bid high from the start.

More on Option's point: Nocioni was the master of the stupid mistake before his foot was a little sore.

by hscs on Jul 16, 2007 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was also

The master at getting into other team's heads, hitting clutch three's and free throws, taking charges, playing intense on every play and at one point...was one of the few to drive and get to the line....

Besides that, I guess he was pretty useless, huh?

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 16, 2007 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Hot Shit thought you were on his side....

Nocioni's positive contributions will all be pointless from this point forward.

Gordon, Deng and Tyrus will be driving much more.

Gordon, Kirk, Thabo and Curry will be better 3-pt shooters. (stretch)

Hinrich and Wallace will be the captains. I'm sure the team could have found just as much "heart" without him. It's not like they are accustomed to losing.

And if you don't think Tyrus and Noah will be getting in people's heads and brining energy.... hmmm...

Nocioni was good for the "culture change" three years ago. Now he's redundant.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2007 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose I could have also linked...

...to Duke and its winning ways, or the 2004 NBA Championship. Damn, this team has a lot of winners who like to win and have heart and don't lose and stuff. Glad we kept that other one.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 16, 2007 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never EVER

put that much faith in rookies.

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 17, 2007 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes no sense.

Yes, of course.

by tyger1147 on Jul 17, 2007 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's like saying

"Glad we kept the other one"

Remember a healthy Nocioni, the one you loved.

by Option27 on Jul 17, 2007 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni

Ok maybe some of the other players have heart but NOONE has got the balls and aggresiveness of Noce (and I mean NOONE).

Nooocciiiooonniiiii......

Vangelis
(No 1 fan of the Bulls in Europe??)

by Vangelis on Jul 18, 2007 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also

read that he might play ball this summer. I hope that is not true.

by sue369 on Jul 16, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I think that would be pushing it a bit. Especially since he needs to rest it in order to get better. In fact, I'm actually hoping Kirk isn't chosen for the Olympic qualifying tournament either. We need everybody at full capacity next year.

by bigballa10 on Jul 16, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ehh

Aside from the possible injuries one might take in during the summer, i am not really against playing over the summer.

Okay,,, a little fearful for nocioni who is still needs to rest to come back from an injury, but hinrich...i think it would good for him to play.

The big reason is i think hinrich isnt need of any sort of specific basketball training, his speed and strength are fine for his position, not spectacular...but fine. I think the only thing he always seems to lack is what comes through experience. Being a better floor general, not being hesitant to knock down a shot, things that are more learned from the actual game then practice.

Also i think this time around hinrich shouldnt be as affected as he was last year, and considering that several other nba stars are going to be part of the summer games, i would like to think hinrich can be at thier level, and can participate in summer activities like them, and still come back and put up decent numbers. I mean if lebron, carmello and d-wade (if he is not injured) can play in the summer games, and still hold superstar numbers than hinrich should be able to do the same.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jul 17, 2007 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs