Game 2 aftermath thread

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2007 10:01 PM CDT in News Comment 112 comments

I needed to break up the game thread, so let the wailing and (Steve) nashing of teeth commence.

That's not meant to belittle any 'sky is falling' comments, I'm sincerely discouraged as well.

Everything was bad tonight, yet again. At least we don't have to read that the team wasn't properly prepared or didn't play with energy. Nope, they're just not as good. Especially worrisome that the 'core' is getting destroyed by their counterparts. Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng have to outperform Billups/Hamilton/Prince, or at least come close.

It almost makes the rest of the team's problems moot, but continuing to give up offensive boards doesn't even allow the offense to get started. Wallace may have gotten a few easy baskets in the half but he was nowhere to be found when the Bulls needed someone guarding the basket. It's a problem that the jump-shooting Detroit bigs present, but Wallace also has to be conscious of running around trying to get steals and as a result leaving the paint open.

And the bench play and deployment almost is beyond the point of criticism. Continuing to run out Duhon and Noc didn't kill the team, but it buried them after the early death, yet again.

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So JoJo doesn't have to write a diary

Just pretend LL is talking about basketball.

by Paxson Jackson on May 7, 2007 10:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

(Repost)

(Went up at same time as new thread)

From a purely fan perspective, these two games
have been really depressing.

I am somewhat disheartened.

The team I just watched on TV did not even resemble the team I saw all year long.

Are we just an irksome regular season team, as one blogger suggested? Are we simply outmatched when good teams turn up the playoff intensity? Are the Bulls the little engine that could, a team which tries hard but gets knocked off of its rails far before it ever reaches the summit?

What, if anything, do these games suggest about the long term potential of our team? Can this team win a championship with its current core (however you may define that)? Or are the guards too short, the team too unathletic?

I am not shocked by losing, but I am absolutely shocked by the failure to make the games competitive.

I really don't know the answer to the questions I posed. I guess the next two games will tell the tale, in some ways.

Come on Bulls, get back in this series.

by 1958ChiTown on May 7, 2007 10:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

these are legit questions

I guess the big one is not are they outmatched but by how much?

If they make it a series maybe the braintrust can convince themselves that even if they just gave the core guys another year and moved up Tyrus/Thabo and punted Noc/Duhon (blammo, you're more athletic now) they can take on the Pistons in a series.

of course all the while they'll still search for a low-post threat.

I doubt even two more destructions will cause them to deal Gordon or Hinrich but the doubt will creep in, for sure.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2007 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup

The Bulls looked amazing against Miami, and they look equally bad against Detroit.

Last series, I couldn't believe they were putting it all together like they did. So in control, so smooth.

This series, they look like confused kids. They don't seem to know what they want to do, their sets look awkward, no one can hit a shot.

Its nice to think that they can rally and win their home games and make a series out of it, but what positives can you even take home to build on? The Bulls just got EMBARRASSED twice in a row. Embarrassed. Schooled. Humiliated.

I'll keep rooting for Bulls in six. But it sure feels like Pistons in four.

by preverbal on May 7, 2007 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls shooting

has been terrible. They can be wide open and still will miss. They need to start shooting and hopefully that will turn things around.

by SRQman on May 7, 2007 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bulls need to shoot better

and I hope they win. OT: Here is some art i did

compared to the Dali version

Sad thing is someone wants to buy mine

by SRQman on May 7, 2007 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What the hell?

Hinrich: The second coming of Stockton, minus the short shorts.

by Chalkwhite on May 8, 2007 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noc

I'm so sick of hearing about it that I won't get into the whole the-bulls-need-a-back-to-the-basket-scorer-who-can-slow-the-game-down-and-score-when-jumpshots-are-n ot-falling thing.

I see Noc having real value in another system. He's just not what the bulls need at that 4 spot. I'd say trade him as part of whatever Pax does in the offseason.

Also, the Bulls can make this a long, exciting series. So there's no need to start Google and YouTube-scouting Spencer Hawes and Roy Hibbert just yet.

by jai on May 7, 2007 10:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pax

also needs to find a starting guard over 6'5. I thought last year they needed to draft Roy and trade Hinrich or Gordon for a big. Its just pathetic to see Billups and Hamilton being able to score at will. Of course it might help if Thabo could recover from the rectum splinters thanks to Skiles.

by LD9 on May 7, 2007 10:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Positives?

Congrats to Ty for being ESPN's top performer for the Bulls - it's good to see him get going a little.

Bench play was better. (Of course, it couldn't have been worse.)

Kirk obviously had a horrid shooting night (not just the 0-for, but missing 2 free throws as well), but at least he had 6 rebounds, 7 assists and only 1 TO to do something positive. He was hot last game, so it's not like this is an extended shooting slump.

Lu also had a bad shooting night, but did hit 8 of 8 free throws.

Ben Wallace had 13 points and 3 blocks.

TOs weren't quite as bad as I thought. Only 13 total, and BG and Noc had 7 of those. No one else had more than a one TO tonight.

Bulls shot more than twice as many free throws as Detroit, and actually shot a higher FT% as well. (Since I'm looking for positives, I'm ignoring the 15 missed free throws.)

Yanks sign Clemens: more evidence that the evil empire believes money solves everything.

by wjb1492 on May 7, 2007 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

getting to the line so much

was definately a good sign.

It's difficult to look at the box score though knowing they were playing catch-up the whole game.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2007 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

*definitely

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2007 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wallace

BigBen had 13 pts because Pistons are partly ignoring him. They want the Bulls to pass to him because he's never going to beat you on offense. Pistons are rotating to stop the drivers and it throws off the Bulls offense.

Pistons are smart and good defensive team. They know if Prince doesn't let Deng get easy jump shots and they hound Gordon on both ends that Bulls offense bogs down.

On offensive end I think many people had greatly underestimated Webber and Wallace. Having 2 bigs who can post, shoot and pass is killing the Bulls. Bulls are needing to "help" on D against too many Pistons which is sign for disaster when Pistons have so many scorers.

by NY Chicago Fan on May 8, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but I didn't have much to work with.

I need something positive to hold on to over the next three days.

Yanks sign Clemens: more evidence that the evil empire believes money solves everything.

by wjb1492 on May 8, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

unfortunately

I can't get over the Pistons having 6 guys with at least 7 boards. The Bulls had one guy with 7. That's a killer. Wallace got no help.

by bullshooter on May 7, 2007 10:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the Bulls didnt care, and wont in games 3 or 4

they didnt jump for rebounds. they didnt leave the ground. nobody is playing well. everybody is bad. no possible way to do well when the other team wants it so much more.

this series is worthless

by hongydraw on May 7, 2007 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was PJ Brown stoned on the bench?

he looked high. Well I wouldn't start trading everyone on the Bulls just because Detriot has played like its a welcome home Big Ben playoff party. I still think the Bulls can come back here. The series can swing. This really seems like a strage series, it's almost like the Detriot Pistons vs Ben Wallace. I just think the emotion that the Pistons have at home with Big Ben in town is just so fucked up.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 7, 2007 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

its pistons vs ben wallace

because nobody else on the bulls is trying

this series is worthless

by hongydraw on May 7, 2007 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

that may be a more pleasing answer but I prefer the more disturbing one: they're trying just fine and just failing.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 7, 2007 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmmm

I don't know. I just think they lost their focus after the sweep of the Heat. I really think Detroits been waiting for us because of what this means to them. Yeah they do want it more cause everyone was saying they would be done without Big Ben.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 7, 2007 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

after sweep of the heat

that's all hindsight. If the Bulls came out playing well everyone would say their 'momentum' from sweeping the Heat carried over. Since they played bad it's 'complacence'. It makes more sense to me to say the previous series meant nothing either way, this is a new series and a new opponent.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok its

a new series and a new opponent but the team is not playing normal.

By normal I mean moving the ball around the wings and getting to the basket. I don't care how good the Pistons are, the Bulls are doing things that lead me to believe they relaxed and have no prepared for the second round. Maybe sheed was right maybe the Bulls were just happy to be there.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 8, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

All this shows is how much better the Pistons 5 was then the Heat 5. Pistons are obviously playing at very high level and have the talent to back up their desire to reach the finals. Bulls were not title contenders just because they beat the Heat - Miami wasn't that good

by NY Chicago Fan on May 8, 2007 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

The bulls are are just overmatched by Detroit when Detroit plays like they did the first two games. I mean look at freaking Chris Webber. Youd think he got some sort of steroid injection/hip replacement/lower body replacement or something the way he is playing.

The Pistons make almost all of their shots and they execute, while the bulls arent doing so well in that department. The Match up dillemma is another problem and they might have to play zone, espescially early on. What pisses me off the most is how they are killing us on the boards with webber and crap getting all these offensive boards.

Nocioni has been injured and it is hard for him to be full speed on defense. Nocioni isnt an excellent defernder but he is a solid feisty defender. But the pistons are making him look like antoine walker.

Ahh what will become of these bulls...

by Sambossanova on May 7, 2007 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

they need to draft well...

and work hard this summer.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 7, 2007 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

JoeJoe

Have some faith. There is no fat lady so far.

"Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation." -Michael Jordan

by cubbybear on May 8, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next season home court or bust!

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 7, 2007 11:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Deron Williams vs Baron Davis

this is sweet.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 7, 2007 11:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

bulls will turn it around

detroit vs ben wallace will become detroit vs chicago on thursday. the crowd will be a factor and the bulls will wake up. hopefully they won't play scared, that is the problem!

by tomcat on May 8, 2007 2:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it is my great hope

that Duhon is gone this summer. Gone, gone, gone.

by KT on May 8, 2007 5:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Just a few things

on last nights game.

The bench played better. I was so happy to see TT have a good game. Thabo did well too. Noch, well I don't have much to say about him. Du is such a non factor in this series so far.

I think the Pistons just have Kirk, BG and Luol's number for this series so far. They have totally taken them out of their games. One suggestion I heard last night was put BG on the bench and start Thabo. Let BG see what is going on in the game and then send him in. They also said maybe TT should start since he brings excitement to the game when he is in. What could it hurt? What they are doing now isn't working.

I hope being home helps them Thurs. night. They need a win and they will have the home crowd to help get that win. I'm not giving up on this team.

Be sure and tune in after the game tonight for our telethon to raise money for a new home for Boney.

by sue369 on May 8, 2007 7:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Gordon started fine last night

until his leg started bleeding. Thabo should be the first (and only) guard off the bench though. Gordon is the Bulls' only shot at getting the Pistons in early foul trouble. Thomas could help in that area if he starts too, and hopefully Skiles just keeps both players out there despite the mistakes. His list of "things to do when the Bulls are playing bad" just plain sucks.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon's fouls

weren't even guarding his man. A couple were on loose balls and another was bumping lindsay hunter 35 feet from the hoop. ugh.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's too bad the best players at drawing fouls

also commit a lot of them, but Skiles has to take a risk.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to pick up fouls guarding your man...

When you're not guarding anyone to begin with.

by Big D on May 8, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lineup changes

I think those lineup changes could be helpful but doubt if Skiles would implement until after game 3. If the Bulls lose on Thursday, he'll be able to pull the "we have to shake things up because we have nothing to lose" card. He's too conservative to mix things up if the Bulls still have an outside chance.

I'm bummed about all of this too. Getting blown out twice after sweeping the defending champs will always be a slap in the face. But now the Bulls get to come home where they have played well all season. Let's see what these guys are made of.

by paxson43 on May 8, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't lose hope yet....

Remember last season when the Pistons did the same thing to the Cavs....

Hold serve at home, then steal one in Detroit....

The Cavs should have beat the Pistons last year, having a chance to close it out at home...

Keep the faith!!!

Fear The Sword

by FearTheSword on May 8, 2007 8:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the support!

We're trying to have faith. I know we can do it.

Yo Skiles! More Tyrus and Thabo please!

by SouthSideIrish on May 8, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's over

This series was over before it began. It's not a lack of focus. It's not a lack of energy. It's not inexperience. The Detroit Pistons are just simply a better team. There is nothing else to say.

After this season comes to a pathetic ending..I think some serious trading is on the horizon for this team. Gordon, gone. Nocioni, bye-bye. PJ Brown, good-riddance. Duhon, ughhhh. Disintegrate the core. It was a bad idea to think you could build a team around 4 smalls. Trading Curry: BAD IDEA and we can see that coming to fruition in this series. We needed his low post presence. Next year this guy will be a 20/8 to 25/10 type. Trading Chandler for ONLY PJ Brown: Very Bad Idea. Wallace and PJ are done. Beaten. Defeated. Exhausted. Used Up. Chandler at least brought some fire, some passion, some turnovers too but at least he's a better rebounder, blocker and younger with something to prove. Wallace looks like he doesn't care.

I'm out.. bring on Da Cubs

F*ck the Heat!!

by BullShitzer on May 8, 2007 9:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

awwww

You almost had me after that first paragraph until saying they shouldn't have traded Curry.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Curry will be a 25/10 guy next year?

The 10 is referring to turnovers, right? I know you can't be talking about rebounds.

by Big D on May 8, 2007 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

Nice one.

Curry might be a 20-25/5 guy. Who scores 15 of those 20-25 in the 1st quarter.

by preverbal on May 8, 2007 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and then turns the ball over

and lets the other team score 20 points of of his mistakes.

by KT on May 8, 2007 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you confuse bens emotions

Ben cares, but his expressions suggest that part of him wishes that he stayed with detriot. This was not what he expected the playoff experience to be against his old team.

by DannyRange on May 8, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deep breath . . .

exhale.

I will not give up on the team I love.
I have seen them play great.
I have seen them play poorly.
This team is capable of playing both ways.

Regardless, I am a fan.
As a fan, I choose to believe.
I believe that the Bulls will go home,
gather themselves, find whatever it is they have been missing -- pride, moxie, vertical lift, whatever.
And I believe they will show up and win two at home.
Whether they win the series or not, I choose to believe they will send me to the off-season happy. And all they have to do for that to happen is compete.

Say it with me now . . .

by preverbal on May 8, 2007 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

I won't give up hope. I won't stop watching every minute of every game. And no matter what happens, I won't forget all the things they've done well this season in the face of a couple of bad games.

Yanks sign Clemens: more evidence that the evil empire believes money solves everything.

by wjb1492 on May 8, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

NEVER DIE! No matter what I will still remember the season they have done.

by SRQman on May 8, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm here

to the very end.

GO BULLS!!!

Be sure and tune in after the game tonight for our telethon to raise money for a new home for Boney.

by sue369 on May 8, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Believe Too!!!

GO BULLS!

by Squirrley on May 8, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahah @

pride, moxie, vertical lift.

If they don't respond to these losses then I think the Bulls will just be the joke of the NBA as they already are.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 8, 2007 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how

a team that goes to the play-offs can be the joke of the NBA

by SRQman on May 8, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can.

Breathe Tyrus! Breathe!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 8, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's get Physical, Physical.

I think it's about time to get really physical. They're sending us to the line with hard fouls every time we drive. Time to do the same. I'm so sick of those guys driving for floaters and nice little lay ups.

The Body needs to pound on Webber's body. Make him feel old again. And the Bulls need to get their perimeter guys in foul trouble, not the guys that barely play.

Oh yeah, hitting some open shots would help.

The only Yi Jianlian fan here

by Option27 on May 8, 2007 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Conspiracy theory anyone?

http://tinyurl.com/3a7dbg

Yo Skiles! More Tyrus and Thabo please!

by SouthSideIrish on May 8, 2007 10:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I could comment on

ALL the things that went wrong last night, but we all saw it and I really don't want to remember. However, I really, seriously, don't ever want to hear (read) another "Nocioni vs. Tyrus" debate because we all clearly saw who is more important to this team. Everytime Doosh grabbed the ball I knew it would be a turnover. They should have went to Tyrus all night!
-
I'm proposing a trade idea. Doosh and Duh for a pair of used Jordans.

From Champs to Chumps!

by Goostafer on May 8, 2007 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We need a henchman

I dont understand why the bulls are playing so bad. I think the bulls need to knock rip on his skinny ass the next time he curls around a screen or shoots that little pull up J in the lane. That will send a message to him that enough is enough! This guy weighs a buck twenty soakin wet, and we cant find anyone to play him more physically? And lets not forget "no legs" Weber. Someone explain to me how we let Web get off like he was still playin with the fab 5, unacceptable.

The only chance the bulls have of winning this series is to get a key injury on the Pistons. Like Norm Van Lier says, "we may lose the game, but we wont lose the fight" Send these guys into the next round banged up.

by DannyRange on May 8, 2007 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Is it too early to start talkin draft??????

Scenario;
Bulls get 1st pick, do we go with Oden or Durant?
This a no brainer right????

by DannyRange on May 8, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is my take...

After watching nearly every Bulls game this season, I came to the conclusion that when the Bulls have more than 3 day break in between games, they come out sucking. Now that theory does not hold true for Game 2, but I honestly think had our Miami series gone 7 games we would have played better come Game 1. I just hope the home crowd and familarity of the UC puts some life back into this team!

by Squirrley on May 8, 2007 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Note to Bulls

lose more next time!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shocking

I didn't expect the Bulls to sweep, but I certainly expected more from them after being competitive in all 4 regular season games with the Pistons, and coupling that with how well they played against the Heat. It's shocking that they look like they don't belong on the same court as Detroit.

They haven't shot well, they haven't played good defense yet, and they are getting schooled on the boards.

In a twisted way, these almost seem like positives. You expect them to play to their season averages, or at least their averages against Detroit. They can't play this poorly for the whole series, can they?

The area I'm most concerned about is the defense. Detroit is getting way too many open looks. Wide open. IMHO, that's why the Bulls shot more FTs then the Pistons in game 2...
They aren't even close enough to the Pistons to foul them!

Wrecked 'em? Damn near killed 'em!

by mdmnd9294 on May 8, 2007 10:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I buy

"they got the suck out of their system" more than DannyRange's Ben Wallace body language analysis. That's not to belittle your point. What isn't working should be pretty obvious to the players and coaches by now.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Detroit's defense

has a lot to do with Chicago's miscues more than Chicago simply making the mistakes on their own. Give some credit at least... the 3-1 series in the regular season has somehow made Detroit out to be inferior, when in fact they still had a better record.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boner, seriously

A miscue is a mistake. I realize you enjoy the attention, but even Matt Watson has to be sick of your "re: verbal battle with bullz fans I'm winig" emails.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

calm down

sensitive sally

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

make sense

Fucktard Frank

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

make sense?

I think the comment you responded to was fine. You had to go and bust out the thesaurus and search wikipedia for the synonyms for the word miscue, so you could find another reason to try and "pile on" the Pistons' fan.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh please

"Detroit's defense has a lot to do with Chicago's [mistakes] more than Chicago simply making the mistakes on their own."

That's how your comment reads. Miscue isn't a 'big' word, champ. I'm not googling it for my benefit.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't put it as a big word

it was the first word that came to my mind, I should've edited it had I caught it before I hit post.

jesus, put down the thesaurus bro.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because you're typing

directly from your ass? Matt Watson doesn't care.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

Honestly who cares? They played like crap. The Pistons were better. That's it. I don't think the Pistons are just going to the United Center and take both games. The bulls will probably win game 3. Not that you guys care what I say....but we as Pistons fans we went through the same thing. It takes time to build a championship team. You have to get lucky a few times also. Again not that you care what I say.

by Madmax on May 8, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jeepers creepers

I don't care that the Pistons are better. I care why they're better, and I care why the Bulls have lost so badly. It's not a who can say who is better the most contest (Boney is winning that by the way).

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice

maybe next season I'll take the time to look at statistics that don't make a difference on the actual playing surface... then, I won't be talking out of my ass. I'll at least be trying to think John Hollinger is god with his almight "efficiency" ratings...

I'm sorry, I only care about whether or not my team actually wins and how they match up physically with another team. I don't care about someone else's magical stats or where they rate on a daily power rankings board on espn.com. Seems to me the team I follow always ends up not being near the top of any efficiency ratings, but they have put up 6 straight years of 50+ wins. It may have only resulted in 1 title, but that's more than I can say the Bulls have done in the last 6 years besides cross their fingers for good lottery picks.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

it's also less work for you to ignore statistics, so...bonus.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

statistics schmatistics

when you're on the court playing a god damn game you don't think to yourself "shit, Deng shots 69% from the foul line to the basket during the final 30 seconds of the first half per 48 minutes".

If Jordan averages 30 points a night, you know he's going to get his points it's up to you to physically stop it, if you're on the court.

Some of the toolbags on here have is the "Well, Hollinger says our efficiency ratings are higher than the Pistons so that means we're better"... oh ok, that's why you're the #5 seed and Detroit's #1. I know Detroit sloshes through games at a slow pace, but I don't care as long as they get the W. If Detroit is on a winning streak, their chances of winning are a lot higher than "well, Tayshaun Prince hasn't been playing up to his 90% efficiency rating so their chances of winning are 9:1"..

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you dim?

ahh, the standard response of stat-hate: creating straw man arguments like "you think you're automatically better because the stats say so"

The nice thing about stat-friendly people as they admit they don't know all the answers. A sense of humility you can't seem to grasp.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

then why bother with them

if it doesn't help you in your decision of who to throw cash on, then why bother?

your team wins 3 out of 4 games during the regular season against my team. there's obviously a stat that proves to 1958ChiTown that leads him to 2+ posts about how "Detroit's not that good"... come on man, lay it on me. Detroit is a team that's been the most consistent team in the Eastern conference lately, why should I (as a Pistons' fan, not a member of the team) worry about beating the Bulls? They're obviously better, based on Ben Wallace's per 40 minute rebounding totals.

Also, I emailed you (Matt) when you raved about signing Big Ben and how the media was wrong about how his stats have been in decline. You emailed back with a "well his per40 rebounding stats have gotten better"...

um, but what if those 40 minutes come in a span of 10 games? shit, I could snag a rebound or 2 in 4 minutes a night. My per40 rebound totals would be off the chart!

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you don't care to understand so I won't bother

But I'll just say this: those vegas lines that are set to make sure you lose around 50% of the time are based on stats.

also, RE-saying my last point: stats are meant to be interpreted. Your per-40 example shows that you just don't know how to interpret them, so maybe it's safer for everyone that you don't bother to cite them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 8, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm sure

When/if you attempt to predict an outcome of a 7 game series based on games during the regular season using efficiency ratings, you are making a mistake. (See Mavs, Dallas)

My per-40 example was just an odd-ball example, I know exactly what it means and what it's meant to show. I've read the statistics, I still do read them. Statistics show how good of a year a playing is having altogether.

now please, ask me to define what per-40 means, I know you want to.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only "stat" I based my opinion on

was the fact that Detroit only won four more games the regular season than the Bulls.

Historically, the regular season has been a pretty strong indicator of a team's strength (barring an odd injury situation or somesuch).

When I said that the Piston's aren't "that good," I clearly meant that there is no evidence they are 20+ points better than Chicago on a nightly basis. Chicago is maximizing that differential by playing poorly.

by 1958ChiTown on May 8, 2007 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A great game or series analysis might include

all of the following:

(1) Match-up/personnel analysis;

(2) X's and O's analysis (IMO, this is related to, but seperate from, a pure personnel critique. For example, a team which doesn't match-up particularly well man to man may ameliorate the personnel deficiencies by going to zone defense or by running motion offense. Similarly, a team might maximize its personnel advantage by going to a zone, like Detroit maximizes its length advantage by playing that 2-3. IMO, basketball schemes are means of managing personnel match-ups, and so warrant their own category. Others might fuse categories one and two);

(3) Statistical analysis;

(4) Intangible analysis (I realize that some may feel this is an overplayed area of analysis. It could be. Nonetheless, I still think it is critical at times, especially in a sport like basketball.)

Exclusive or disproportionate reliance on any one of the four categories will likely produce a skewed opinion. At least that is my view.

I don't like dogmatic, absolute reliance on statistics any more than you do, Boney. Such an approach can be mechanical and disregard the human element of the game. At the same time, even NBA teams have hired individuals to run rigorous statistical algorithms. I don't know about the predictive value of statistics, but they are a great way, in context, to explain the historical performance of a particular team.

You rely solely on match-up analysis, which is fine. It's just a blog. However, your argument is just as narrow as those that rely entirely on statistics.

Similarly, I tend to favor a combination of X's and O's and intangibles (trite!:)). Not perfect. I am trying to incorporate statistical thought more often when I watch games, but I feel that some of the current indices are deeply flawed. Notheless, I realize they have value.

Point being, there are multiple ways of looking at the game.

Oh, and you WERE right (thus far) in your match-up predictions. So I give you props.

But I still refuse to believe that the series is over.

by 1958ChiTown on May 8, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the series is not over

my matchups "review" was based on skill level and abilities of the actual player (Deng is a great mid-range forward, but Tayshaun is a 2nd team defender, etc)..

I know it's partially based on stats, but it was solely on the matchups. I don't think I need stats to say that Sheed can dominate the post against PJ Brown and Ben Wallace. I also don't think I need stats to say that Billups will have a good series because he's going up against Ben Gordon. Billups posts up guards like Tony Parker and Steve Nash all season long, why would he not post up Gordon?

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

it was based on the scheme that both teams run (Flip's motion offense vs. Skiles defense, etc)..

it wasn't simply a "oh well McDyess weighs more than TT, so he'll be able to post him up"

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was

based on a really inarticulate cuz-I-KNOW formula.

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope

I'm not as good as that chick that's always on the Montell Williams show

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's mildly racist

Good for you, Boner. You've managed to criticise just about everything in one day. Is it lonely at the top?

by Paxson Jackson on May 8, 2007 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

mildly racist how?

you said it was based on a "cuz i know" situation and I said "no, I'm not as good as that chick on the montell williams show". nothing in there was racist.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But why can't you include

match-up AND statistical analysis?

Why does it have to be either/or?

Wouldn't a really rigorous examination include both, since both have merit?

You are setting up a false dichotomy. That's all I am saying.

by 1958ChiTown on May 8, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if you want me to

I can get really nitty gritty with why I think the team will win, or what matchups are better. I won't break it down into a "well Rasheed does better against 6'9 centers every other thursday of the month".. I don't have that much time in the day

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel dumber after reading that.

The stats just tell you on average what a player and team will do, and so far, as you'll agree, the Bulls are not doing what they on average will do(pts, fg% allowed, etc.) and the Pistons have done more than stats would suggest(13/29 off rebs. in the first thrfee quarters yesterday). Individual match-ups like the one you reference make stats seem trivial, because it's true that players rarely play differently on every other thursday of the month. However, Prince just doesn't normally shoot 55% from three, which he has doen so far in these playoffs.

"Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation." -Michael Jordan

by cubbybear on May 8, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

there have probably been 6 game stretches during the 82 game season where he did shoot a high percentage.

or no?

It's only been 6 games, plus take into account that a lot of his shots may come when he's heavily guarded, something I can't say happened during the 4 games in the Orlando series, or so far in the CHI series.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't lie boner

you do have all day.

by bullshooter on May 8, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah you got me

I'm looking for a home.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not suggesting...

that Detroit isn't partially responsible. But the Bulls are missing open looks they knocked down in Miami. And certainly Detroit is making a high percentage of the many open looks they are getting.

Wrecked 'em? Damn near killed 'em!

by mdmnd9294 on May 8, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I'm in denial

but the Bulls simply are not this bad and Detroit is not this good. All of the talk about what the Bulls should do in the off season is really premature. The Bulls have here before, several times during the season. And, were the Bulls really that much better than the Pistons when the Bulls crushed them at the Palace, 106-88 on April 4 without Ben Wallace? Things will even out.

*Those statistics about winners of the first two games go on to win the series 95% of the time really piss me off because there are so many other variables to consider.

*The Pistons shooters will cool off.

*Ben Gordon is simply not going to keep being in foul trouble, for whatever reason, any more.

*Andres Nocioni will find his shot.

*Thomas will get more minutes

*Sef will get most of Duhon's minutes.

*Kirk will regain his confidence

*The UC crowd will help the Bulls, and the Bull are proven to be better at home.

*Those close foul calls will start going the Bulls way

I'm not making any predictions about this series, but my gut feeling is that this series is far from over. This is not the Miami Heat, who were never really that good to begin with. And the Pistons haven't magically turned into an unbeatable team. The Bulls are a team that has had its big ups and big downs throughout the season. It's basically because they are a young team with a lot of talent, that apparently hasn't figured out the same rotation issues it had at the beginning of the season. I don't see why anyone would expect the Bulls to be much different that they were throughout the season. The've looked terrible before and bounced back.

by GWKD on May 8, 2007 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ben Gordon gets in foul trouble

under his own errors. The foul he committed on Hunter last night was stupid. He should know that you can't body up on a ball handler at center court, they (NBA) got rid of that when the Knicks used to body you and hand check.

It's fouls like that, that get him in trouble. There's not going to be many times where he's going to foul a guy blowing past him, because Billups doesn't drive that often.

Both teams played hard.

by Boney on May 8, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Home Court is huge

The Bulls actually had a better home record than the Pistons. I see Game 3 going to the deperate Bulls, and Game 4 is for respectability. If the Bulls hold serve, that'll scare the Pistons a little, and whine about calls more. Hold on, is that possible?

"Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation." -Michael Jordan

by cubbybear on May 8, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one whines

more than the Pistons. They should be made to see pictures of themselves from the games. It's rediculous.

Be sure and tune in after the game tonight for our telethon to raise money for a new home for Boney.

by sue369 on May 8, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe the heat whine more?

in their opinion, shaq is god.

this series is worthless

by hongydraw on May 8, 2007 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, maybe they do

but the Pistons have the worse looks on their faces when they whine.

Be sure and tune in after the game tonight for our telethon to raise money for a new home for Boney.

by sue369 on May 8, 2007 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Something that isn't being mentioned

Up until, say, the All-Star Break, the Bulls were one of the worst away teams in the league. It is very possible that this problem simply crept back after a good run (Hell, the NJ game makes more sense in light of this). Yes, the Heat series is anomalous, but really, they were so outmatched against the Bulls it was a joke.

The problem so far in this series is very simple: They. Ain't. Hitting. Shots. This is a mental problem, not a strategery problem. I'm not talking about the plays where Detroit defended well, I'm talking about a number of open looks that were literally thrown away. OK, also, the guards are being totally out-rebounded on those long rebounds. So, two problems, and one is fixed simply by everyone returning to form.

That is the best case scenario remaining.

The next best is, they lose the series big, resign their remaining VERY young players a little cheaper, and improve under no uncertain terms this offseason. Just like any team whose median age is ~23 or whatever. </End communication>

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 8, 2007 4:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Its the defense

The bulls are getting outboarded by a bigger team, and the they have to work twice as hard on defense. That simple fact is what's killing them on the offensive end because they aren't getting any easy shots.

by bullshooter on May 8, 2007 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beg to differ

While you are probably exaggerating a little, they are getting some easy shots. They are missing these shots. Meanwhile, the Pistons are hitting all of their easy shots, and a ton of the tough ones.

by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 8, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In the fourth quarter, maybe.

they scored 87 points last night, enough to beat either NJ or Cleveland. That isn't the problem...

by bullshooter on May 8, 2007 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait (unless the Bulls in 4 straight)

For the Pistons to get swept out of the finals.

by vlad001 on May 8, 2007 6:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Miki Moore a free agent?

Pain and death are part of life. To reject them is to reject life itself.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 8, 2007 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i honestly think the Pistons will win

the championship. Probably because of my Cubfan-ness though....2003 Marlins stick with me forever. A team vs my team, they get hot for no reason and proceed to win it all.

this series is worthless

by hongydraw on May 8, 2007 7:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs