Tyrus Thomas - Present & Future

by IrishGush on May 17, 2007 4:51 AM CDT

I think that most of us anticipated that Ty was not going to be a top rookie this year, but hoped that he would provide some athleticism and develop into a top player in the future. I was worried though, that often the athletic leapers who lack basic basketball skills when they are 20 lack those skills for the duration of their NBA career. With Matt leading the way, we've all been impressed by Ty's contributions - his defense, rebounding and his ability to dunk the alley-oop more than anyone I've seen. When Ty is out there, I often think, just throw it up there! Just loft it! And with Noce hobbled by his plantar fascitis and a natural lack of athleticism, Ty's been huge.

But I'm wondering how people see Ty fitting into the Bulls in their future plans - not as a trading chip, but as a part of their offense. Defensively, I think he'll be a smaller, slighter and slightly worse Ben Wallace - but not too much worse. His leaping ability is obvious, but he's surprised me with his steals and defensive IQ.

Yet assuming the Bulls stay with their core, how do you see Thomas fitting in with the offense? He's not going to be able to jump that high forever, and at some point teams will adjust. (I mean, NBA teams can design a defensive strategy to stop a team from throwing alley-oops all game. Right?) Plus, his jump shot is still in the developing stages. (Note: Has anyone seen him hit that jumper in the playoff? I don't remember 1 make.) He is a little shaky when putting the ball on the floor, and seems comfortable only when there's no one guarding him. Which happens often because he can't shoot, which will hopefully change.

What I'm really trying to do is find out whether people feel he can be their 4th offensive weapon. Right now, everyone's clamoring for a post-up threat. But can we survive with an athletic offensive threat? He doesn't have to be the focal point of the offense, but he does need a clear role. If he doesn't have one or doesn't have the skills, then we need someone who can lessen the load for Hinrich, Gordon and Deng, and as much as Matt complains, we're gonna keep seeing Nocioni out there.

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Are we talking about Chandler or Curry?

Those 2 guys cracked the crystal ball for Bulls' youth. Gain weight, lose weight, develop a post move, develop a jumper, blah-blah-blah, etc. Curry and Chandler were never on the right track, and it shouldn't have surprised anyone when they never overcame their flaws. I'm tired of reading the same things for Thomas.

He's probably going to become a more dynamic offensive player, but he isn't a classic big man or a traditional perimeter player. However you want to qualify that is up to you. Point is, he should improve, and his ability to mop up offensive rebounds, and catch lobs are always going to be strengths. His hook shot looked pretty good way back in the regular season, and his jumper was decent in college. He's succeeded offensively so far because teams can't guard a mop up guy and finisher with his physical ability (and basketball iq, GWKD).

I don't like taking or accepting credit, but I was leading the Thomas charge before Matt was.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 17, 2007 8:56 AM CDT reply actions

you're correct

in fact, I'd STILL put him in a deal for Gasol. But anyway...

I think Thomas' post moves are far from awful, his leaping and reach are such that he start far away from the basket and still turn it into a layup.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 17, 2007 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions

Ha!

I won't try to prove an unprovable point regarding his basketball IQ. More relevantly, I think that is what Skiles actually thinks, which is also unproveable, but which I thought Skiles quote the other day may have demonstrated. Much of my view is based on TT's being a relative latecomer to the game; actually watching how he, ya know, plays basketball; prior lack of any necessity to expand his game (because of his athleticism, he didn't need to learn anything); and other media reports of players like Pippen and P.J. thinking he is immature (I didn't agree with Sam Smith's character assassination of him during the "free money" incident).

For the record, I really hope to be wrong. I should also emphasize that I think Tyrus is probably one of the more passionate players on the team (or in the league, even) which is more important.

My hope is that whatever experience Skiles had in his ups and downs with a young Chandler and Curry will benefit in his future coaching of TT.

And that, and $2.00 will get me a ride on the CTA . . . .

by GWKD on May 17, 2007 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions

Thomas is probably

benefiting from being on a team that already buys into Skiles system or whatever. Curry and Chandler were at a disadvantage with coaching instability and garbage veterans.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 17, 2007 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions

true

by GWKD on May 17, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

I think/hope they keep him

at least another couple of years. I don't have a problem with a kid that is a little immature, since quite a few guys his age are. And I do expect much of what we see as raw now to develop quite nicely. I'm really looking forward to seeing what an off-season with the team does for both Ty and Thabo's games.

I remember shuddering when Lu would drive because he looked so awkward. Funny what a couple of years with the team can do for a player's development. Yes, I know Lu has an incredible work ethic, but Ty should benefit from being on a team where that's the culture.

Who says it can't be done?

by wjb1492 on May 17, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions

sorry i feel stupid

but what does GWKD mean?

Wallace, Deng, Hinrich, Thomas earing NBA accolades. Thomas, Gordon at All-Star weekend. A sweep of the Champs. One great year.

by hongydraw on May 17, 2007 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions

What doesn't it mean?

It'd be like if I shortened my ID to CWCB. Take your guess... (though, that's probably damn impossible to figure out.)

Deng 4 MVP, 2008!

by corey williams corey benjamin on May 17, 2007 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions

I have a terrible fear the Bulls are going to

trade Tyrus this offseason.

Every trade scenario I read about includes Tyrus.

That would make the Bulls a lot less enjoyable to watch.

(P.S. I do NOT want Garnett or Gasol!)

As for how Tyrus will eventually turn out, this is what I envision on the offensive end:

He'll score a lot in transition because he runs the floor well for a guy who is 6'9".

He'll continue to score off of rebounds and lobs.

He'll develop a ten to twelve foot jumper, which will means that teams won't be able to sag off of him. He should be able to hit jumpers like PJ does now.

He'll drive some within the lane when oppnents crowd his jumper. I don't think he'll even be a Marion type who drives in from the perimeter or the three point line or goes coast to coast, but within ten feet he can be effective off the dribble. He'll draw a lot of fouls that way.

He'll develop a little hook shot (you've seen some of it off the spin moves in the last two games).

JMO.

by 1958ChiTown on May 17, 2007 9:43 AM CDT reply actions

adding to your opinion

Thomas gives the Bulls extra possessions and high percentage points, and I'd like to see some proof (or at least a good guess) that Gasol or J.O. would make a bigger, more efficient impact.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 17, 2007 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

How about comparing

Gasol's averages to the Bulls composite 4 production? Gasol would definitely be a productive addition, but at what cost?

Getting back to the original questions, Tyrus is almost 20? He's taken 4 jumpers, maybe, so not remembering making one isn't a big deal. Furthermore, he's probably been told repeatedly "not to try to do too much" when he's out there and that's in the back of his head when the shot clock is running down and his man is laying off him begging him to put up the jumper.

Personally, I'd like to see the Bulls not make a trade and take a big in the draft, preferably someone with an offensive game, and not Hibbert (who doesn't have one). These guys are coming together and there are still holes where productive young players can fit in and get time, so there is no log jam that needs to be broken. Garnett's a great player, but why hasn't he been to the playoffs in three years? Gasol, also good, hasn't ever won a playoff game. If somebody wants to give the Bulls these players, by all means, take them, but don't give up anything of great value. Du, Noc, Khryapa have value, and maybe the pick, but nothing else.

FEAR THE ROOKIES!

by bullshooter on May 17, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions

I can answer both playoff questions

for Gasol and Garnett.

They play in the Western Conference.

It's early to start dealing away guys (hopefully way too early) but I do think Garnett and Gasol are both talents that make the team truly great. Gasol may not be quite as good but he gets bonus points for salary and age.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 17, 2007 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions

cost

was one of my 'unwritten' factors.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 17, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions

hibbert

has developedquite the offensive game. If you watched him play he can hit 10-15 foot jump shots pretty well, he is a very good passes and has developed his post game. Its just that he is slow and might not work very well within the bulls offensive scheme.

by Sambossanova on May 17, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions

How do you add to someone else's opinion?

And are there any higher percentage points than 100% of a point? Are partial points awarded for degree of difficulty? Wow, I haven't been watching this game of basketball close enough.

by kingj41 on May 18, 2007 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions

well I just not-120%-seriously did,

and "high percentage points" is hardly an obscure term.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 18, 2007 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions

I've heard

of high percentage shots. Hell, I've even made many myself. But there is no high percentage point? With or without a pic...

by kingj41 on May 18, 2007 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

good for you

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 18, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

i share the fear

of a possible team 'minor blow-up' after this season (series?) is over. deng/gordon, nocioni, thomas, and duhon all have a shot at being traded for garnett/gasol/jermaine oneal...i dont think we need those guys.

Wallace, Deng, Hinrich, Thomas earing NBA accolades. Thomas, Gordon at All-Star weekend. A sweep of the Champs. One great year.

by hongydraw on May 17, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Tyrus Thomas

I'm willing to give him time. He has more athletic ability than he knows what to do with. I believe that if he gets in the gym this summer with some of those other guys (Luo and BG) that he will start making some of those jumpshots. That would make him extremely difficult to deal with.

because I said they're gonna win.

by mike @ Blog a Bull on May 17, 2007 11:30 AM CDT reply actions

Thomas

Im hoping that thomas develops into a more offensively interior oriented gerald wallace (less of an outside shot and a post up game). Wallace had a horrible shot and still doesnt have a pretty shot but he is pretty explosive. A taller version of wallace who is better at grabbing boards seems is my uneducated prediction/hope.

by Sambossanova on May 17, 2007 12:10 PM CDT reply actions

Tyrus's rookie year is pretty impressive

when you consider that he had a higher PER (14.8) than Hinrich and Deng, and barely missed topping Gordon's (14.9). After this season it's hard to remember Deng only shot 43% from the field during his rookie year. He averaged 15 points/40 basically on dunks and FTs from trying to dunk.

He really needs to work on three things in his offense game to be able to be a serious threat. He needs to keep working on his jump hook. He needs to be able to make short jumpers. The final piece to the puzzle would be a counter to his spin move. It could be a turnaround jumper or a lefty hook, but he would eventually need a counter to that spin move and righty hook. But, his best offensive skill so far has been getting to the line. His 7.2 FTA/40 led the team.

If he makes similar offensive improvement to Deng's then that combined with his defensive ability and of course sportscenter highlights could make him an all-star by the end of his third season. Two years from now he could have a spot on the all-defensive 1st team.

by Scotter on May 17, 2007 1:42 PM CDT reply actions

Tyrus

I kind of see the upside for him as evolving into a cross between Shawn Marion and Ben Wallace. Marion with his hops, steals, deflections, and dunking. BWallace with huge shot blocking and rebounding tenacity along with the the inability to play normal back-to-basket offense.

On the down side, he could end up being just a guy who dunks and blocks shot but never figures out anything else, like Chandler.

But still, either way I think he will be a good player in the league for a little while at least.

He won't be a requisite piece of puzzle for the Bulls, though I would love to see him stay around and be part of what's next. If he leaves, it's not the end of the world, though.

by jai on May 17, 2007 4:20 PM CDT reply actions