Angriest after a win, naturally
Hey, it may turn out to be meaningless but it sure was fun. The start was fueled by Kirk Hinrich, who was not only hitting shots but seemingly getting everything he wanted on the floor. It was impressive how nearly every shot he took was open and in rhythm. The Bulls needed it too, since Ben Gordon maybe tried to pay homage to his mother by sharing, since he certainly didn't feel like shooting. In fact, he and Luol alternated bad halves, but overall played well. I don't know if they solved the zone but it sure looked like they figured something out this game offensively.
The Bulls dominated the boards today 51-33, and Ben Wallace was 17 on his own. He even staved off the Whack-A-Wallace strategy by making 3 of 4 from the line. But that strategy shouldn't have been in play because there was no excuse for letting the game get close. I'll now spend the rest of this post bitching about Skiles....
Look. The only two negatives today were Nocioni and Duhon. And I'm not extrapolating that one-game +/- into a whole team rotation philosophy, you can simply look at how these two are performing and realize they do not deserve the time right now. Starting with Nocioni, who is clearly hurt and while he can still take a few flat-footed three-pointers he's otherwise a complete liability. He compounds being slow on defense by still trying to roam and help knowing he can't get back to his own man on time. So he either doesn't get back at all or fouls when he arrives late. Duhon is completely useless, and whoever's guarding him knows that he has no willingness to take a shot.
(That was actually a problem with a lot of the Bulls today, I couldn't believe how many times they would be up in the air and then freeze and try to pass it off. Once you're up, just commit, and know that at least you have a good offensive rebounding team who may collect the miss. Even Hinrich was doing it in the 4th quarter after he had such a great start to the game.)
Back to the incredible shrinking lead: seven and a half minutes into the 3rd quarter and Skiles takes out PJ (which as a credit to Skiles, didn't leave PJ out there for the whole game as in game 3) and puts in Nocioni. It was complete insanity. Looking back at Noc's first half, he managed to pick up 3 fouls and 1 rebound in his six minutes, and as I detailed a couple grafs up was unable to stay with anyone on defense. Tyrus Thomas comes in near the end of the first half and the Bulls gain 10 points on their lead when he's out there. So now it's the 3rd quarter, the lead is up to 20, the crowd is into it and begging for the Bulls to put the game away, and it seems the perfect time to get the rookie into the game. Instead Skiles gets the tight butthole (as Sheed would say) and goes with his hobbled veteran, signaling to his team and us in the stands that he is content just letting the game get close as long as there aren't any mistakes. That's a tough mind-reading job on my part, especially since Noc is just as mistake-prone and the Bulls all season are better with Tyrus on the court, but that's what seems to be the rationale.
This mistake is compounded severely to start the 4th quarter, when Skiles trots out this gem: Duhon/Hinrich/Deng/Nocioni/Brown. To switch to Hubie prose: Against a team that you're outworking and should be out-athlete-ing (huh?), you bring out your slowest frontcourt and a guard who has no willingness to shoot. That's how you can choke away a lead, and Skiles almost choked this game, not the players. The bigs are slow to rotate on defense, the offense stalls with immobility and tentativeness, and the rebounding suffers on both ends. The lead drops 7 points in about 2 minutes, the Pistons now have reason not to pack it up for Auburn Hills.
Thankfully, in comes Tyrus to save my sanity. Yes, his offensive game is, er, developing (although it's not near hopeless, you can see decent form on the jumper and skill in his post moves) but at least he attacks the rim. Tyrus comes into the game and gets to the line twice in the next several possessions. That's how you keep a lead, by maintaining pressure, not simply by holding the ball and hope for the best. Tyrus played the last 9 minutes of the game (except for a bizarre one-possession sub of Duhon to try and go small, what the hell that was about we'll likely never know) and the Bulls win comfortably.
It's not just that when he's out there the team performs better, in fact in some games this postseason that isn't the case. But you can see that Nocioni is hobbling and near-useless, and Tyrus isn't bringing just 'energy' (barf), but a willingness and ability to attack the rim on offense and challenge the same such attempts on defense. In a playoffs where he's been called scared he was the least scared guy on the team.
And the evidence keeps mounting for him and Thabo (it's time to accept that Duhon cannot be effective against Detroit, for myriad reasons) to get more time this series and while Skiles sometimes has rewarded them for a given game, it never translates to the next one and we always see them as the first two off the bench. Maybe it'll take Paxson ripping these favorite toys from Skiles hands in the offseason, but I sure would like to see it sooner. They're down 3-1 and any game could be their last this season.
Time to quit playing the same bench with a not-to-lose mindset and give the rookies a chance to help you win. I don't mean that they could've won this series by playing Tyrus more, as I've said many times if the core guys don't play well the bench decisions don't matter. But they did play well enough today and the Noc/Duh tandem was the only thing keeping them from a blowout. The Bulls have to get a lot better to compete with the Pistons for the rest of this series, but that's one easy way to start.
158 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
i wonder how we'd be doing in this series
doubtful in my opinion
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
not that good?
Matt
firstly, the Pistons are a bad matchup for him
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
well put Matt
I really hope
As much as Noc is a detriment now (mostly because of Skiles' irrational love for him), he was an important player to have for the last few years. And Du will definitely be a starting PG in this league. Maybe not a very good one, but better than many now.
Who can we get for these two, either individually or packaged?
TT is
I hope the Bulls team that played today is the one that shows up in Detroit on Tues.
His jumper actually doesn't look bad
TT is
nearly every shot he took was open and in rhythm.
Don't know if you could see Kirk's expression early on in the game -
But I saw a look on his face...blank...like...I'm not sure I've ever seen it before...
It was an "I'm playing for everything and don't care what happens" look.
Dazed...but focused at the same time...
At least that's what I saw.
Hope you had fun at the game, and I hope you get to go to another one later this week.
GO BULLS!!
I believe that
I thought
heh
That's called drive and kick.
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Pax Jacks
point?
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
since the thesaurus is out
by Boney @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd advise you to buy a sense of humor,
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions
maybe you're right
by Boney @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
so 'by way of'
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
oops
by Boney @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
He's right.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you have not
Well said
'well said' back at ya
I hope a bad team out there thinks adding Duh and Noc could help get them to the playoffs, which, who knows, they may.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
The only thing
Right on, Matt
I agree about this being a bad matchup for Duhon. He can't guard anyone on their team, and still won't take the open looks (though he did knock down a BIG three when he had to which I was pleased to see). Again, eight-ish man would be right for him.
I was out of the country all last week and missed the first three games. The roommate (big Pistons fan) said that it was embarrassing how much trouble the Bulls were having with the zone and that Skiles got very defensive when questioned about it. He said that Skiles made no adjustments in those games. Does that sound right to you guys? I said that didn't surprise me b/c the team struggled with zones throughout the season, although were a bit better towards the end (for instance, Miami tried a zone and got severely burned).
Also, with his new contract, can't Kirk pay for him mom to get a little dental work? It's the least he could do.
Finally - it is great to see the Bulls playing on Mothers' Day again - even if we'll probably lose this series in five. I still am glad we're in the second round. Also love Deng giving the shoutout to "all the mothers". He's the best...
by corey williams corey benjamin on May 13, 2007 9:11 PM CDT reply actions
It's mother's day
Admittedly...
by corey williams corey benjamin on May 14, 2007 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
none taken by me
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Kirk's sis, otoh,
by KT on May 14, 2007 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Should have played Tyson more.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 13, 2007 9:14 PM CDT reply actions
oh my god
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 13, 2007 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Tyson?
Or Mike?
Here's the thing
As for Skiles, he played Deng the whole game and Hinrich for "only" 45 minutes. I don't know how anyone can expect Deng to have anything in the 4th or Hinrich either. Both shot poorly in the 4th. Thabo could sub for Deng for a couple of minutes. He must be another "peripheral" guy. Would anybody be shocked if I said I don't get Skiles?
I think the idea is
There is no bigger
So we need someone bigger, who can guard folks like Billups, and who can take over the ball-handling duties in this offense from time to time.
I'm just wondering if that "someone" wasn't Brandon Roy.
yikes
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 13, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yikes
And I was one of those pushing hard for the Bulls to take Roy last draft. I am obviously enamored with Thomas (see my sig), but in my worst imaginings I still see Roy in a Bulls uniform gobbling up Duhon's minutes.
Deng can kick the ball
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 13, 2007 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions
He's not terrible
its not about %
by NY Chicago Fan on May 14, 2007 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say
The problem is, when he's on the court, he's either a) replacing Gordon, thus crippling the offense or b) replacing Hinrich, thus depleting the defense. This is exacerbated by the Bulls already having a player in Big Ben that doesn't command on offense. He just doesn't fit in as well as he would on another team.
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 13, 2007 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of which...
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 13, 2007 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I really think they can handle heavy minutes
It's the playoffs and the rotations shorten (I'm sure we would've seen 40+ for Chauncey and Rip if the games had been close this series), the best players need to be out there as much as possible. Plus the TV timeouts in the playoffs seem nearly twice as long, which should help. It's hard to prove that the rest early in the game allows for more agressiveness later. I'm not saying it isn't possible but I'm not willing to make that leap.
Not that I don't advocate giving them some rest though. Agreed on Thabo, not only could he spell Deng for a short stretch, but Hinrich too
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 13, 2007 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 13, 2007 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I only hope that whatever Paxson does,
Meanwhile, a lot of people who don't watch Chicago games seem to be high on Duhon. I remember one article linked from here recently saying he could be the point guard on a championship team (right...). Plus, the pool of guards is pretty thin this off-season. So maybe we could swing something nice with him. It's not that I don't like the guy, I just don't think a small defensive guard fits well on a team with two better small guards, one of which is defensive.
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 13, 2007 10:22 PM CDT reply actions
Sam Smith would
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 13, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say what a fair deal would be.
I would agree that Thomas is the future at that spot. Either that or he's a disappointment.
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 13, 2007 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
What do you guys think of Jason Richardson
by bullshooter on May 13, 2007 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
They also have a glut
I would take him
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 13, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
obviously, there'd be a trade
by bullshooter on May 13, 2007 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Any chance
If they resign Varejao it could work out for them.
Maybe we can also send of duhon for eric snow...jk.
Duhon
And littler.
didn't watch consistently until
win one on their court. make it exciting.
by mike bornemann @ Blog a Bull on May 13, 2007 11:11 PM CDT reply actions
Wait... Wallace used to play for the Pistons?!?!
Everyone (except Matt) feeling a little better?
I do.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 3:39 AM CDT up reply actions
man Im kinda sick of playing
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 3:48 AM CDT reply actions
I love this kids sign.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 3:54 AM CDT reply actions
Absolutely love this
I love watching Tyrus...
Demoted diary from Knowledge32
But interested in everyone's thoughts. How did we do last night?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 9:06 AM CDT reply actions
Noc Bashing - Hinrich Praises
There is too much Hinrich praises. Kirk has not displayed consistency and is an average PG in this league. He is not a take charge PG. Look at Deron Williams of Utah, in his second year this guy is playing like a stud at PG. Kirk is just a decent player that has reached his ceiling in the current offensive Bulls strategy.
He really needs two players types that the Bulls don't have that would compliment his game and highlight his strengths. He needs a big/tall (a true 6'4" +) defensive/offensive SG that he can share point guard responsibilities and defensive assignment with 50% of the time while both are on the floor. He needs a low-post offensive/defensive front-court stud to enhance his perimeter game. Note: Kirk and Gordon are interchangable and/or expendable with this type of SG.
according to CDW?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
reason for noc bashing?
Rocky Balboa?
john stockton had some good defensive days
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
john stockton
and Hinrich is the Wade-Stopper
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok! Pax-Jac
jason richardson
by bullshooter on May 14, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Hoping divine will lands me at the game
by Seth @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 9:12 AM CDT reply actions
That made me laugh!
I really do like BG - I worry about his defense and ball handling, but I appreciate his shooting/scoring and how hard he has worked to improve, so this isn't an attack on him. He got to the free throw line often, made them all, and is working on the defensive end. I've just been baffled by the Sun-Times' coverage - I don't know how you can say Ben found his rhythm when he went 4-11.
I don't
I wonder and I hope I see
Hey, Sue, did you see this one?
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/couch/384498,CST-SPT-greg14.article
I don't know how he can say he didn't mean that article as a back-handed compliment.
that's a hatchet job
by bullshooter on May 14, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It's the same writer that called him
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/couch/353117,CST-SPT-greg22.article
(Needless to say, I completely disagree.)
Obviously
The post above
I heard back
What an ass.
I think he has officially reached the Jay Mariotti level of dislike from me.
I share the TT, Thabo frustration excellently
Love this pic too.
Yesterday
Excuse me if I differ completely. I know many people have often said that this series could easily have been tied right now 2-2. But I have the feeling that no one really means it.
You know those games where Skiles will say in the post game interviews that if a certain shot goes in, we would be talking about completely different game. Well I feel that way about Game 3 and yesterday.
You get the feeling that the Bulls aren't "ready" for the 2nd round in the playoffs with all this rubbish going around the interent. Or the Bulls don't have that "2nd gear" Detroit has when they wish to use it.
It's complete bullshit. I promise you that had the Bulls made a couple more of them lucrative 4th quarter shots in Game 3 or had Rasheed Wallace missed that last second, 3rd quarter 3 in game 3, everyone would be talking about how both teams have held court so far at home. And this series was everything people had thought it would be before it started.
I'm sorry but I don't buy all this crap everyone is selling about the Bulls not having what Detroit has. The Bulls do have it. It's there if a couple shots go in in game 3.
Like Skiles says, "If that shot goes in, we would be talking about a completely different game right now."
agreed
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Skiles should regard the percentages:
Yesterday had
even if they tied up the series
I don't think it has anything to do with what round of the playoffs they're in, but in terms of this series and against this Pistons team they've proven to be the lesser team so far, and it really hasn't been close. They would have to get a win in Detroit for me to feel otherwise, to be honest.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Option
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
holy crap, that picture is something else
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Cartwright in Sacramento rumors
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
the JYD debut was fun
Oh god, I'm smiling just thinking about that. Not sure if it's because that game was such a great memory or in retrospect so ridiculously off the team's trend after that point. We still owe Krause a big thanks for doing his best to make sure Artest didn't punch a Chicagoan.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny to read things in retrospect.
"Yeah, I think it's on us because they based so much on our future," guard Jamal Crawford says. "Eddy, Tyson and I are the future of the Chicago Bulls..."
Tyrus has the b-ball I.Q. of a fifth grader
Can I agree with everything you say and also point out that Skiles just doesn't trust this kid. The way Noc is playing hurt, and to a lesser extent, P.J., Skiles really has no choice but to play him.
by GWKD on May 14, 2007 11:10 AM CDT reply actions
I don't see the 'Tyrus is dumb' argument
Anyway, I think Noc and Gordon are lower b-ball IQ (define it however you wish) players. Sweets is up there too. And I'd rank Tyrus far ahead of Chandler in that department already.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Tyrus
by bullshooter on May 14, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
he does most of the time
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
There's a reason he's open on those shots
I don't mind if he takes them
I think only one shot he took was over-doing it, because it was early in the posession. It was still 'open', and I'll consider it a 'heat check' after that sweet spin-layup thing he had earlier.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
If you allow some dreamin'
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
whoa whoa whoa
by GWKD on May 14, 2007 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you guys see the heart-warming...
Apparently, as a 16-year-old sophomore or junior a teacher had the kids write down what the kids thought they'd be doing in 10 years. Hinrich's mother saved all his old school stuff (as did those weird moms). for whatever reason, she got it out.
What did it say?
That Kirk Hinrich thought he'd be the starting point guard for the Chicago Bulls when he was 26. That's crazy talk (but, of course, not that crazy).
yeah i saw that commercial
Actually
My 8th grade teacher asked me what I wanted
LOL
nice sig
by Boney @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
hey boner
Besides, looks like your services are required elsewhere.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 14, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
man, sourpuss action big time
by Boney @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Rasheed Wallace
Boney, I've been trying not to be an ass to you, but it's really hard when you're this annoying.
And you've yet to answer my question: why ARE YOU HERE when you said that you'd leave?!
Leave man, no one wants you here.
by NittanyBull on May 15, 2007 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Is ironic the only word you know?
by NittanyBull on May 15, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Had to comment twice about this
by NittanyBull on May 15, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Bing! Clang! Tonk!
:-P
Hm
different requirements for you
by your friendly BullsBlogger on May 15, 2007 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions
I really can't wait until you leave.
Is there any real possibility we could land Amare?
"Can the Bulls get a post scorer? Can they get an inside presence? Can they get a star, seemingly the missing piece against the Pistons. There'll be talk this summer about Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Drew Gooden, perhaps Andrew Bogut -- if the Bucks get Greg Oden -- Darko Milicic, Marcus Camby and perhaps Amare Stoudemire if the Suns lose to the Spurs."
Two questions:
(1) Is there any real possibility we could acquire Amare?;
(2) Do we need a post scorer? I know it has almost become cannon to say that the Bulls need a post scorer, expecially when they are down 3-1 to the Pistons, but is it truly necessary and desirable in the modern NBA, which is moving towards a fast-paced, fluid style? Maybe it is, but I was wondering what others thought.
I've heard Amare's name floated around if
I'm relieved that the Bulls losses didn't lead many here to jump on the post scorer band wagon again. They need better post scoring, but not a low post player. They need what the Pistons have, several players they can throw to in the post to get a shot. Deng will be able to that. I believe Tyrus will be able to do that. I'm hoping the new draft pick will be able to do that. Three guys who could score from the post when needed would be all this team would need.
First rule of trading
Hawks-Joe Johnson
Knicks-Quentin Richardson
Clippers-Tim Thomas
All three of these players owe Nash millions for their current contract.
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 14, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
gawaaah?
by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on May 14, 2007 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I should have been clearer
by Craig Hodges Explosion 3000 on May 14, 2007 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Kind of like the ex-1998 Bulls?
Those three have nothing to do with Nash.
Yes and yes
Low-post scorer?
With the Bulls style offensively, wouldn't it be enough to have a big that can score consistently, regardless of the location on the floor?
It's both
Not sure about Amare
On the trade front, saw this in Hollinger's chat on ESPN Insider today - not sure it would be the solution, but it's an interesting thought, since Bulls need a 4 and Utah a 3.
John Hollinger: No. Any deal with AK is complicated by his salary, which I believe is in the $13 million range next year. So you'd have to send a couple big contracts back to Utah. What would work would be a sign-and-trade of Nocioni, plus a couple smaller dead-weight contracts (hello, Viktor Khryapa).
Nocioni for Artest and
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 3:31 PM CDT reply actions
Draft pick and PA guy for
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 3:33 PM CDT reply actions
Not basketball related but very Chicago
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 7:04 PM CDT reply actions
While you're at it
Even better, try and dig through history to find a video of the famous 6-4-3 DP combo from the 1908 Cubs.
It'd be just as relevant as the video you just pointed out.
Cause I don't think baseball
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting video here.
http://blog.mlive.com:80/fullcourtpress/2007/05/is_kirk_hinrich_a_dirty_player.html
that's what I thought
Maybe Flip has a PUSS.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on May 14, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact
Hinrich can play against any PGs in the NBA if he doesn't have to spend so much energy chasing the opposite tall SGs. See his performance during the regular season games when he played against Arena, Billups, T Parker... Also, check the ESPN rating for games 1, 3 and 4 in this series. Hinrich has ratings similar to Billups (you only need to play 4 good games to win a series). When factoring in the fact that Hinrich had to exert so much energy to guard an all-star SG like Hamilton who is 4 inches taller than him (sometimes he tried to guard both Hamilton and Billups at similar time), we say Hinrich played better than his counterpart (PG) since Billups mainly needed to guard BG who would be a backup SG on many other teams (eg, Spurs, Suns, Pistons, Warrior, Raps, Nets... even on some sub .5 teams such as Hawks, Kings, Knicks, Bucks...). If Hinrich had a SG like Hamilton as his backcourtmate, he would have a triple-double in game 3. How can the Bulls win a championship (not to mention championships) when TWO of your starting 5 mainly play at one end of the floor (you can't even pass the second round)??? Have you noticed that you play 4 on 5 at both ends of the floor???
by smton on May 15, 2007 3:10 PM CDT reply actions

by 













