Why No Trade (Draft Diary of the Week)

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 1, 2007 11:08 AM CST Comment 53 comments

My final thoughts on decision not to trade Deng, Gordon or #1 pick away yet

I have been thinking about the fact that the Bulls did not make any trades and have honestly flipped back and forth on if they should. Funny thing is I have settled back on what I thought and posted before the season started. And this will be my final decision - the Bulls need to wait on any moves until they see where the 1st Rd pick from NY will be - and this will be my final decision.

I have to admit the weekend dime on ESPN.com reminded me of why I said Bulls needed to wait in the 1st place before the season began. We need to remember here that the Bulls still have a slight, even if small chance of landing a top 3 pick in a loaded draft. (after top 3 picks it goes by reg season order for those who don't remember draft rules)

If the Knicks don't make the playoffs then anything can happen in the lottery. Sure the odds might not be good, but its really a gamble the Bulls need to take. Bulls already have a tough playoff team now but even with Gasol they aren't guaranteed title contenders (Suns/Mavs still soo tough when healthy) so they decided that you don't blow up such a young team with so many assests. If Bulls get lucky and land a player like Oden (possible franchise player when his wrist is 100%) or Durant (seems to be a better McGrady) or maybe even JWright then they add stud piece to an already playoff team. Then with Ty / Thabo improvement to go along with the Core guys they can contend for title for years to come. Yes it may be longshot and there is no use in discussing it in length now, but I think that is why Pax did not blow up team or trade pick. Lastly even if pick is in 9-11 range it is still valuable and Bulls can still make moves to improve team for 08 and beyond

Simply - No gaurantee of championship in 07 so take the gamble on a star player for years to come

One thing I do want to stress is that NO team will be trading down out of top 2 picks so stop posting that nonsense.

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Comments

heh

I especially like your last point. I'm sure whatever pick the Bulls get there will be plenty of "trade #whatever and Khryapa for #2!"

I know I get testy when talking about the draft, but I do also like the idea of a lottery (literally) ticket possibly vaulting them into a top-2 (or top-3 depending on your scouting opinion, of which I have little) pick.

But if they don't win a lottery spot, I want that pick gone gone gone. I have no use for a mid-lottery big man, they're such a low-percentage success rate and this team already has enough developing in front of them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 1, 2007 11:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez

or his twin brother could be a fit in the mid-lottery

http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=545

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 1, 2007 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fresno represent!

by Whitebacon on Mar 2, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oppps

my point was not who Bulls should pick, months before draft, just why I think they kept the pick - and thats only to have the chance at Oden / Durant however unlikely

but guess I started draft discussion buzz ... which should wait until at least after NCAAs

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 2, 2007 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I say keep this pick. Some decent Bigs.

Roy Hibbert 7'2
Josh McRoberts 6-11
Yi Jianlian 7'0
Spencer Hawes 7'0
Hasheem Thabeet 7'2
Aaron Gray 7'1

by JoJoEnglish94bulls4ever on Mar 1, 2007 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

brook lopez

I read ana rticle about this kid on espn.com or si i dont remember but he has been having a crazy second half of the season. Not to get all excited about the draft but there are a couple under the radar big men who would have been lottery picks last season...I mean if o bryant and sene landed that high im sure all of those guys u listed would be top 13 last season.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=545

Of those guys though, hasheem is extremely raw and useless. Gray is a stiff. Jianlin is a mystery project, McRoberts has been dissapointing. I like Hibbert and Hawes but this kid brook lopez would be a perfect option if we can't get someone like Horford to help us out immediately.

by Sambossanova on Mar 1, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

great minds think alike

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 1, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lopez looks good

- thanks

chgobr

by chgobr on Mar 1, 2007 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Big White Guy Alert!

That's always a no-no in the lottery. :)

I'm glad that we still have the right to swap picks with the Knicks. That little wrinkle in the Curry trade has a chance to be such a significant asset for the franchise.

Aside from lighting striking and putting the Bulls in the Top 2, hopefully the Knicks pick lands in the 4-8 range and Paxson might be able to pull of one of his draft day specials and move up or down one or two picks and get the guy he wants.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Mar 1, 2007 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no way like 4-8

Knicks are not going to finish one of the 8 worst teams, they are currently 11th. So its top 3 pick (lottery) or Bulls will get like 9-13

by NY Chicago Fan on Mar 1, 2007 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

I think outside the top 10 seems more likely. But, that's why I said "hopefully"

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Mar 2, 2007 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be so sure

the Knicks are dropping like flies. I don't think they'll hold the 11 spot. I think you can expect them to drop to the 7-9 range

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 2, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At least you didn't say Nick Fazekas

I'm not a big Roy Hibbert fan. That goes with Josh McRoberts. He reminds me of Foster (Pacers). Not a big Aaron Gray fan either. Maybe he could be a Luc Longley type of player, who knows. Yi Jianlian is more of a small forward. very skinny > 230 lbs. Plays like Dirk. Perimeter player.

If we didn't get Oden or Durant > I love Joakim Noah.

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 1, 2007 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

noah

anything but noah...skinny overrated with limited offensive moves (no post up game really). The bulls need someone who can match up against big Pf and centers at time so we dont have luol deng or nocioni EVER guarding howard or even milicic.

by Sambossanova on Mar 1, 2007 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree!

Strongly disagree! Noah is a winner! Super-high Basketball IQ. Great Passer. Brings high energy. Very long > 6'11" Will fill out. Great hands. What's not to like? He has skills. He will learn post-up moves. He's a gym rat. I'm not wasting a high draft pick on some stiff like Gray or any of the other players mentioned.

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 1, 2007 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but Noah can't shoot

He's chandler all over again.

by bullshooter on Mar 1, 2007 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, Noah will be a bust

also, he's a winner? I hate that argument. what does it even mean?

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not very bright > JR?

Simply put, some players are winners, while others are not. Iverson, Marbury, Chandler, Curry, Crawford, Vince Carter, etc. Those players are not winners. They care more about their own statistics than they do about WINNING! Winners have that "IT" factor! Winners have leadership qualities that those previously mentioned players do not have. Winners do the little things that matter & leave everything on the floor.

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 5, 2007 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

Without Noah's WINNING presence, Florida never would have one last years Championship. Noah was the reason they WON! He cares about team, not his Stats.

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 5, 2007 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why bad

hahaha > correction > wrote "one" & obviously meant "won"

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 5, 2007 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why bad?

I thought the correction would be you didn't mean to spew cliches at us repeatedly. Once would've been enough to point out Noah's winner-ness.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2007 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks guys

I am glad I don't have to jump in here all the time to reply to stuff like that. Winners win... c'mon, challenge me...

by bullshooter on Mar 5, 2007 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

at least the winners nonsense

can be discussed without actually watching any of the games. I'm tired of flipping on Sportscenter or the radio and getting pounded with crap about teams battling it out to be 16th seeds.

by Paxson Jackson on Mar 5, 2007 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Winners win. Period.

And if you're not a winner, you're a loser, and losers don't win. Losers lose, and winners win. And even when losers win, they don't win like winners. Losers win like losers, and winners lose like winners. That's why winners win, and don't lose like losers.

by Paxson Jackson on Mar 5, 2007 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Touche!

San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina.

by Goostafer on Mar 5, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with Granville

Noah will not be a bust, nor is he Chandler all over again. Imagine Chandler with good hands, point guard-like passing and dribbling skills, and 48 minute intensity. Oh and the ability to finish around the basket, make foul shots, and hit the occasional mid-range jumper. I'd take that next to Wallace next year, with TT coming off the bench.

No, he's not perfect, and he's not a big bulky PF who scores 20 pts from the low post, but the Bulls need less beef than they otherwise might because of Big Ben's presence. Would I rather have Garnett there? Sure, but I'm pretty sure we can't get him with the 8 pick.

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 2, 2007 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're wrong

(1) Noah truly loves the game of basketball; a basketball junky. Noah's basketball IQ is very high. Chandler's basketball IQ is very poor. Simply put, Noah is a gym rat. You think Chandler would have won the Championship last year with Florida??? I don't think so! Noah has a strong mental makeup. He has leadership skills. Chandler has none. He doesn't know and will never know what it takes to become a Champion.

by GranvilleWaiters on Mar 5, 2007 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if Noah's a basketball junky

Does Sweetney have basketball junky in the trunky?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 5, 2007 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

they have two second round picks which I think maybe you could find a steal in such a deep draft.

by JoJoEnglish94bulls4ever on Mar 1, 2007 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

second round

like Pau's cousin and Brook Lopez's twin brother.

Then you take Brook in the 1st and you have . . .

3 7-foot white guys!!!

Well, we wouldn't be undersized.

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 1, 2007 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lopez

From the picture he kind of looks like my friend who is half black...Lopez is a hispanic last name but its California...who knows.

Either way he doesnt seem to be that kind of 7 footer (aka a complete stiff like Gray) regardless of whatever racial construction we will designate upon him.

Its kinda silly to get excited about the draft. Has anyone seen any Standford games?

by Sambossanova on Mar 1, 2007 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez definitely isn't a stiff

I've seen a bunch of Stanford games, and Brook Lopez is definitely an athletic guy. My guess is he's at the least part black/hispanic, for what that's worth (don't guys like David Lee fall so far in the draft because of stereotypes like these?). I was skeptical coming into this season - Stanford baksetball has a long history of big stiffs - but he's a legitimate lottery pick. I don't think he will leave early since he's not a lock to go top 10 like he is next year.

I will say that based on subjective viewing opinion alone (does anyone keep meaningfull college statistics?) Brook Lopez is better than Joakim Noah and better defensively than either of the Wright's, with the potential to develop a strong interior game. He's reasonably built for a freshman, and I don't see any reason why he can't put on some more weight.

As far as Robin Lopez goes, he won't be entering the draft if he's a lock to be picked in the second round. He has a reasonable chance to be a first round pick at some point, and it would be a horrible decision to give that up.

by JohnG on Mar 1, 2007 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Brothers Lopez

I actually like Brook Lopez's game quite a bit, but there IS one mitigating factor. Tell me if this sounds familiar . . . two 7' twins bust on the scene at Stanford and pump up the basketball program. They have decent strength and athleticism and seem to have some polish. People like they because they are good students, good players, and good men. Sounds an awful lot like . . . the COLLINSES! I'm not saying they WILL be the Collinses 2, I'm just saying they could be.

On an unrelated sidenote, what are their parents, mental patients? Brook and Robin are great names for twins . . . IF THEY'RE GIRLS. We're lucky they didn't have triplets, because then we'd also be hearing about what a breakout season Nancy Lopez is having.

by Petor on Mar 2, 2007 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean

Jason and Jarron Collins?

by Paxson Jackson on Mar 2, 2007 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The very same.

by Petor on Mar 2, 2007 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez is not listed

on NBAdraft.net

http://nbadraft.net/index.asp#

chgobr

by chgobr on Mar 1, 2007 6:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The 14 year olds who run the site got lazy

It's hard to keep this stuff updated when you have to have multiple people commenting on Josh McRoberts and his lack of "premier athletic ability." Brook Lopez is going to be a top 10 pick next year.

by JohnG on Mar 1, 2007 7:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll be looking at him - thanks!

chgobr

by chgobr on Mar 1, 2007 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Dicky V on "Handsome Dan" Noah

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/?p=9379

"I'd take (Al) Horford over [Joakim Noah]. You know who told me that in confidence? Billy Donovan grabbed me all alone and said the pro scouts are making a mistake. He said there's no way I would take Noah over -- he said he would never say that publicly -- over Horford."

by Paxson Jackson on Mar 2, 2007 9:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

for once Dicky V speaks the truth

i could not agree with that statement more strongly.

Noah has nearly zero offensive game. he doesn't have a good shot and has absolutely nothing in the post. also, he's not going to fill out that much no matter how much time he puts into the weight room. his body just isn't built for it, with its' narrow shoulders and spare frame. worst of all his game is largely finesse; he's tenacious and has energy, sure, but he can't bang with stronger bigs in the post.

Horford is almost the complete opposite, a traditional PF/C with a solid post game and the body to match it. He also covers up a lot of Noah's flaws and allows Noah to roam around and use his length to harass and block shots defensively. Horford is exactly what the Bulls need but I doubt he'll still be around by the time they pick.

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Horford

I worry that he's not long enough to play next to little Big Ben and would still leave the Bulls undersized. But I do like him.

BTW, NBADraft.net has Horford above Noah in its mock. http://www.nbadraft.net/

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 2, 2007 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

similarly, I like some things about Noah

I think his flaws are largely covered up by playing on a team with such balanced talent. He doesn't, like Chandler, have hands of stone but he does share with Tyson the complete lack of an offensive game and I don't think he's anywhere near as strong. I just wonder what his role will be on an NBA team and what he would positively contribute to the Bulls, especially considering that the one thing they desperately need is the one thing he can't do. Don't get me wrong, I think he's talented and has potential; I just think he's overrated.

The knock on Horford for the Bulls is, as you say, his size. If they want to get a legit 7 footer I like Spencer Hawes, Robin Lopez and, only if neither of them comes out for the draft this year, Roy Hibbert (although if it came to that I'd favor Noah over the big guy from Gtown). Actually, I just posted a diary about this very topic.

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez

I believe Brook is supposed to be the alpha twin.

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Mar 2, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my bad

you're right. I don't know about alpha twin, but Brook is the Lopez who's been playing like a high 1st rounder this year. Although it should be noted that that's only on the offensive end; Robin Lopez has been the better shot blocker and their rebounding is roughly equal.

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious...

Is there ever a white prospect compared to a NBA black player, or vice versa. Just seems that no matter what, someone's "comparable NBA player" is always of the same skin color.

by tyger1147 on Mar 2, 2007 11:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

do you mean...

the "comparable NBA players" on NBAdraft.net or just in general? The only example I found on NBAdraft.net was Josh McRoberts being compared to a "less athletic" (re: white version of) Chris Webber. Chase Budinger with his fantastic athleticism seems like he might be a guy to really cross over that racial line in how he's viewed.

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In general...

Even to other players that are in the NBA. Or in baseball. Donald Veal is the Cubs #1 pitching prospect in the minors. Most people say, "He's a lot like Dontrelle Willis." He said (paraphrasing), "Well, we both started in the Cubs' organization. We're both, tall, black and left-handed. Other than that... I don't think we're a lot alike."

I just think it's incredibly lazy. (like the Kirk-Stockton comparisons)

by tyger1147 on Mar 2, 2007 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2007 Mock Lottery

Currently, the Bulls would have the 10th pick. Ugh. The Knicks have a lot
of tough games in March and I'm hoping we can get into the 4-7 range. The
Knicks have a lot of touch games in March including @ Wash, @ Toronto, vs
Dallas, @ Dallas, vs Orlando, vs Cleveland, and @ Cleveland. I expect them
to lose all those games. They also finish the season with 5 of their last 7
games on the road, including 4/10 @ the UC.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=nyk

Also working in the Bulls favor are the teams that will likely be drafting
in front of the Bulls. I mean, these teams are here for a reason, their GMs
are idiots and horrible at judging talent. Fortunately, there are average
players that will vault themselves into the Lottery with a good NCAA
Tournament, and lots of big guys who are always taken too high (like that 7
foot twin from Stanford, Brook Lopez). Teams routinely reach for height (no
pun intended) and overlook better players. See: Bowie, Sam. Someone will
slip to the Bulls. To me, what's interesting about the teams in front of
the Bulls is that they all have young frontcourts, or have recently drafted
big men. All these great big men would be redundant on a lot of the teams.
Here's my initial mock draft and thoughts on the lottery

Boston - Oden. He even looks like Russell
Memphis - Durant. A tragedy if he goes to a small, insignificant team

like this.
-------------------------

3. Philly - Brandon Wright. They have a players at center, pg, and sf.
They need a PF and will be able to choose. Billy King might be dumb enough
to take McRoberts, but likely go with Wright.

4. Milwaukee - Julian Wright. Shockingly bad this season. They are already
huge up front with Bogut, Gadzuric, and the hairless chihuahua. They also
have Redd & Mo Williams. They could go a number of ways, but a defensive
wing/Iguodala type is what they need and that player isn't here. Too high
for Budinger, but possible.

5. New Jersey (from Charlotte) - Jo Noah. Wallace is a free agent and
they've got Felton, Morrison, Brezic and Okafor. Again, the glaring need
here is 2 guard/dynamic wing. I could see a draft day trade for Vinsanity
(MJ, TarHeel Country, Marketing perspective). You heard it here first. If
Charlotte keeps the pick, McRoberts could be a possibility or even Corey
Brewer (if he has an amazing NCAA's would work).

6. Phoenix (frickin' Atlanta!) - Chase Budinger. Stacked. Espn guys say
they love Noah, and would take him, but they can afford to reach a touch for
Budinger who would be AMAZING in their system.

7. Seattle - Spencer Hawes. They're losing Rashard Lewis to free agency and
stupidly haven't traded Jesus Shuttlesworth. They need to solidify their
front line and also sell some tickets by taking the local boy.

8. Portland - Mike Conley Jr. Again, with Pryzbilla, Aldridge & Randolph,
where's the need for a big man? They've also got Roy & Martell Webster.
They need a PG in the WORST way and if OSU makes a run, Conley's stock will
rise enough to put him in the top 10.

9. Sacramento Josh McRoberts. With Bibby, Kevin Martin, & Artest, they're
loaded on the perimeter. They need a another sweet passing big man with
size to replace what Webber was to them. They won't take Horford b/c this
team is already loaded with smallish front court players in 6'7 Kenny Thomas
and 6'9 Shareef, both signed for another 3 years after this one.

Chicago - Al Horford. Boo ya! I'm sorry, but this needs to happen.
Golden State - The 7 foot Chinese Guy. It's Don Nelson after all.
Clippers - Acie Law. Again with the already stacked frontcourt.

They've got close to $100 mil locked up in Brand & Kaman and need a young
guard - especially now that Livingston's not ever going to be the same and
out for next year. Did you guys see that "highlight" by the way? Wow.
Law's going to have a great tournament. Also, on a side note, Brand has a
player opt out after next season. Not a minor detail seeing how the Clips
have completely regressed now that all their players have long term deals.
This will be an issue at next year's trading deadline, mark my words. What
if he came back? Do you think??

13. New Orleans/OK - Corey Brewer. With Paul, Peja, West, & Chandler,
they've got their rotation. They even drafted a couple bigs last year
(Hilton Armstrong & Cedric Simmons). They need someone who can play the 2
or 3, play d, and NOT take the ball out of CP3's hands.

14. Miami - Brook Lopez. They need youth in the worst way and Lopez would
be able to take some minutes from Shaq/Zo.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Mar 2, 2007 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

they're not all locks to leave for the draft...

including conley jr., the lopezes, hawes, budinger and maybe even McRoberts after a pretty lackluster year. I'm not saying that they won't go pro, just that it's less than certain. Of course that's why this is all totally inane speculation and that's what makes it fun.

I do love the "it's Don Nelson after all" concerning taking the random Chinese big; were that to happen I'm sure Jianlian would have a good time running up and down, dunking, and shooting insane 3s while not improving his game in the least. Or he'd be banished to the D lig like patrick o'bryant. it's not like the warriors need another big who can run but can't defend or bang in the post.

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely

This is sort of an "every one decalres" situation. And you're right, that is the fun of it. There's going to be plenty of guys who, by waiting until next year, will be able to significantly raise where they're picked. Hansbrough, for example doesn't crack the lottery this year b/c of all the big men. Next year? Probably does.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Mar 2, 2007 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand

I think all this silliness is always way more fun than trade speculation because the draft is the encapsulation of all the potential greatness that hasn't been wrecked yet by failing to live up to impossible expectations; trade speculation is sullied by all the dull pragmatism. Many of these guys will wind up having been more fun to watch in college anyway. On that note...did you see the A&M/Texas game a couple nights ago?

by jr on Mar 2, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I only saw highlights of one impossible shot made after another. Just awesome. Even though the draft is my personal Chirstmas, I rarely get to watch college hoops outside of tournament time.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Mar 2, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs