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More Gasol chatter

I tried posting this under the Tyrus diary and was told to move it, so...

I'd like to  get back to Pau Gasol rumors/scenarios.  According to McGraw's article in the Daily Herald, Pax is not backing down from publicly stating his desire to make the team better.

From the article...

Paxson pointed out that the Indiana Pacers seemed to jell quickly, winning six of nine games since making an eight-player trade with Golden State last month. Then again, the Pacers have played just two road games with the new lineup.

"Here's what I think it boils down to in a lot of ways: All of our guys, they're high-quality players," Paxson said. "They don't fall into the category of the superstar, though. They're not Kobe (Bryant). They're not (Dwyane) Wade. They're not LeBron (James), Carmelo (Anthony). Those are the guys that are basically untouchables in the league.

"So, you know what you have and you know that they're terrific players. But you're also looking for that guy that maybe is a franchise-type guy."

Paxson gave the impression that while he has high regard for the Bulls players, none of them are off limits right now.
"I'm real comfortable with the group we have in terms of how they play the game and how they approach it, all those things," he said. "And I put a high value on that. It always goes back to if there's a deal to be made that makes you better, you certainly have to take a hard look at it."

Now Talk amongst yourselves...

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Untouchables

The idea of "untouchable" players is sometimes glossed over or over-simplified.  There are several degrees between some guy who's killing the team and has to be traded and someone who's the public face of the franchise and could never be traded.  Even Shaq was traded by the Lakers, so you can't really say anyone is untouchable.

But the thing is, there are some guys who aren't surefire hall-of-famers in their primes, but who it would still make little sense to trade.  This is often due to combinations of contract status, age, popularity, team chemistry, etc.  So Hinrich (not the best guard in the league, but one of the better ones, plus just re-signed, plus brings a lot to the table as far as energy and chemistry) and Wallace (just signed a huge contract that most other teams wouldn't want, plus there's no way Pax would trade his one marquee FA signing) aren't going anywhere.

Statements like the one above from Pax are usually aimed at trying to throw off another GM, trying to create rumors that could cause another team to panic, etc.  I wouldn't read too much into this, but it's an interesting article anyway.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 7, 2007 2:59 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Shaq was traded
because he and Kobe hate each other. One of them had to go according to certain people and it even seemed like he asked to be sent to Miami.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

reading phil jackson's book
it made it seem like the laker management decided that kobe would be more profitable in the long run...

after typing thaat I realize what a duh statement it was...but whatever

by milesgmsu on Feb 7, 2007 9:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

S.I.T.
That stands for Skiles-In-Training and it applies to Matt (and his aversion to rookie bloggers).  Man!  Give a brother a break.  I admit I'm a rookie poster, but the effort is there!  You can see that.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 7, 2007 3:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

IMO, Pau Gasol is not the type of franchise player
that Pax is alluding to in that article.

He isn't a Kobe, a Wade, a LeBron, or a Dirk.

I wish we could get a guy with that sort of talent, I would trade the whole roster for a player like LeBron, but honestly I don't see any who are available. Unfortunately, the Bulls will have to win a championship through solid team play ala the 03 Pistons.  The only way we'll land a superstar in the near future is if we luck into one via the Knicks pick, which seems highly unlikely.

This is actually one of my few criticisms of the league. Unless you have a superstar, it is very hard to win championships. And obtaining superstars is usually a product of luck . A team has to have a bad season, win the lottery, and get a low draft pick IN THE RIGHT YEAR. As the Bulls found out last year, having the number two pick doesn't mean much in a thin draft. Now, if that pick had occurred in 03, we'd have something. It's as much about luck as anything.

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 7, 2007 3:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Also, I assume this will be posed at some point,
but this is from today's Detroit News:

"Grizzlies president Jerry West probably knows exactly what he wants in exchange for Pau Gasol. He also knows that the longer he waits, the better chance he will have of getting what he wants. It looks to me like West is trying to sweat out the Bulls. He would love to get Luol Deng and then maybe one of the Bulls' other starters -- Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni or Kirk Hinrich -- plus P.J. Brown's expiring contract."

Screw trading Luol AND another starter for Pau. I wouldn't even trade Luol for him.

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 7, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

laughable.
I'm hoping the longer this goes, the better the deal gets for the Bulls.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 7, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they
Need the trade more than we do.  They need to shed some cap, vis-a-vis their owner.
Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Feb 7, 2007 8:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pretty sure that is just posturing
just like our man sam(tm) is leaking that the Grizzles owner has said slash payroll, West is leaking that he doesn't actually have to trade anybody and is less likely to as the deadline approaches.  It's a great game of chicken.  What'll be really interesting is if Gasol's agent gets involved and demands a trade and Gasol tanks a few games.  That card hasn't been played yet.

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 3:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know anymore
The more I watch Gasol play, the more I like him.
At the same time my feelings are the same about the current players save for Duhon... It's obviously a hard trigger to pull. Since there is so much to gain and so much to lose. We'd never know until this is all over. I like for Gasol on the Bulls. Sometimes, I feel for One of the key "players" is good. That is only sometimes though. I'm torn.

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 4:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm in favor of any move
That keeps our team relatively young and most importantly... CONSISTENT
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 7, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

quit the hate
Du has played much better as of late, and he was an important piece of the last 2 playoff teams. Its not his fault skiles plays him too much. I like du as much as anyone on the team from a personality type (exception being TT of course), and he plays hard, which is all you can ask for in a guy

that being said, i realize du will probably have to go in order to get gasol (in which case, I value the team above all else)

by milesgmsu on Feb 7, 2007 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hate's such a strng word...
I can't help it tho...
"San Diego Does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 9:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Clown
I mean colossus, Trader isn't me. Get it straight.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Whatever you say, hoss
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Trader how do you know me?

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's impossible to put into words
how painfully stupid the banter is between the two/three of you...

by bullshooter on Feb 7, 2007 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

WOA!!!
He Has two Computers!!! Nice man... Keeps us on our toes like a midget in a stall!

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha
Never heard that metaphor before.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's
because you don't get out much. Their's more to life then a basement. Try going outside for a change.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I live in a highrise
No basement here.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trader
you will realize that Colossus is a 24-7 blogabuller, Action Jackson is like a teachers pet. But everyone else is pretty cool.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure thing, Kevin.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

aww thanks kevin
i'll put that compliment right next to my world's best brother coffee mug

by milesgmsu on Feb 7, 2007 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your
mom's attic don't count.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So
tell me Kevin... What's the Bull's next move?...

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LeBron and Nash
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ask
Clown what the bulls are doing next. He seem to know more about the bulls then I do. Yeah right.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i
should start charging for all the information. Haha just kidding. The only thing I want, is to prove Clown(Colossus) wrong.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I
will tell you what's going on with the bulls. These people think I'm full of shit. But that's ok. I know the deal.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was trying to ignore this stupid colloquy
but this is too ridiculous.  

Trader=Chris44=Kevin

by GWKD on Feb 7, 2007 5:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gee, I had no clue
Thanks for spelling it out for me.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Trader do you ball?

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey
Trader what do you think about the bulls trading Hinrich instead of Deng? We could replace Hinrich with Duhon. Plus we keep Gordon, Deng and we will have Gasol.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Are you
Gail Fischer? She said the same thing last night on CTL and they guys on there told her the Bulls will not trade Hinrich.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 7, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way
I don't got time. I just come on here and see if I made a deal what the reactions will be. Matt does a great job with this site.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So
Who ARE you?... Kevin? Trader? Chris? Chewbaca?
You guys crack me up!

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

YES!
Chewbacca! Thats who we need at the 4!
Maybe Brian Urlacher should be our new PF...

by SouthSideIrish on Feb 7, 2007 11:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right on.
However, Jerry West is not as dumb as whoever gave away Carter or Iverson.
From my (and thus hopefully the Bulls) perspective, Gasol is not a superstar. He is a better than average player, much like Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon. Hinrich is a great all around PG, Gordon is a shooter, Deng is a slasher. Wallace is a defensive menace. With Gasol, the pieces fit. Without any of those five though, we have another hole to fill. I don't think back-ups on our roster can adequately fill any of those roles.
The only way the Bulls improve substantially is if they don't give up any of these cogs and only give up future prospects/draft picks/Nocioni.
If we have to give up one, I wouldn't mind losing Deng, but getting Hakim Warrick back.
Of course, West doesn't work for the Bulls, so he probably won't agree with me.

by Repeat Threepeat on Feb 7, 2007 5:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Now
you know bulls basketball you hit it right on the head. But its going to be tough getting Gasol if we don't give up 1 of the core. West is holding out hope. I really don't want to give up any starters but we do need a post player bad.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol
these comments are funny

by smegmatic on Feb 7, 2007 5:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Goostafer
I'm going by the name Chris because Matt kicked me off this website along time ago. That's back when I told everybody about the J. R smith trade.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:53 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well
why not just come back as yourself? We all know you're Kevin right?... Either way, I don't care, I just wanted to get it straight. Trader's mad at me... I'm so sad.. lol... oh, he likes you by the way.. big supporter. He yelled at us some days ago cause some guys don't believe you...

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i
can't He won't let me reply under the name Kevin anymore

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the real reason
was that 'chris44' was kindof like 'trader' is (was) now. just another user who'd ask 'where's kevin'. Eventually he admitted he was kevin.

feel free to be Kevin44 or something else if you want to have your 'name' back. the actual username though is unrecoverable from what I can tell.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Relax hommie
just having some fun here... And who says I don't like it?
It's just a question?

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 5:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hey
did Clown take my advice? Looks like he went outside for some fresh air. That basement smell has got to get to him.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nope, just a shower
The gym tends to make people sweaty.

And you've obviously never been to Chicago or else you'd know the air isn't the least bit fresh.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 6:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
that's crazy.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 5:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's
just sitting there swinging.  HAHA

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sounds like someone has...
...a man crush on Colossus.

by boerwinkle on Feb 8, 2007 7:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does
anybody know where he lives. Call the fire department. HAHA

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

WARNING BLOGABULL READERS
Beware reading this thread any further.  Doing so my hurt your eyes and make you dumber.  

I only hope that my personal suffering in reading this thread can help by warning others.

by GWKD on Feb 7, 2007 6:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Danger averted
thank Matt for deleting Trader's comments, although most of the collosus and chris44 ones deserve to go too (Not that I make any claim to commenting brilliance).  You may delete my comments on this thread as well since they are now a litte senseless after removing trader's.

by GWKD on Feb 7, 2007 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All
I know is that we need a post player bad. Our guards have to work hard on every play to get a bucket. We need a player down low so we can throw him the ball and watch him go to work. It's called easy buckets. We haven't had easy buckets since Curry left. Those 5 dunks a night are 10 easy points. Makes a big different

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

So
there's no New News?...

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously dude...
it got old and annoying.. let it go and take ur finger off the shift key...

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 6:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sure thing, Kevin
You know, if you're going to try and pretend to be someone else, you could at least not make the same fucking grammar mistakes and exact same writing style.

I guess it's tough to be creative when you're fourteen.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 6:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Our Buddy Trader's gone
Chris44 (and if it's so confusing, change your name to something with 'kevin' in it, sheesh) is likely next...

And probably colossus too if he never learns to just ignore the guy and not pick fights.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 6:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

matt
its all in fun. Colossus just don't know how to shut up. Trader seems like a cool guy.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

yeah well your fun is a pain in my ass
so keep it at a minimum...and who knows maybe you'll outlast colossus yet!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i
doubt it. But understood.

by chris44 on Feb 7, 2007 6:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Can't we all just get along?
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 7:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Does TT's troubles impact a possible trade?
I'm concerned we may have lost some leverage 2nd to TT's troubles.  I guess I'm in Goostader's camp in  that the more I watch Gasol the more I like him.    I don't think we should give away our core except for Nocioni.  For this to work we need Gordon, Deng and Hinrich.  TT could have been an important part of the trade, but now he has lost considerable value.  
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 7, 2007 7:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

yeah,
not really. His lack of playing time has more to do with his theoretical value to other teams than supposedly being less than personable.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 7, 2007 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's my
opinion as well... His remarks might not weigh too much, f any, on the desicion made during the trade (if it happens). However, I wonder if this little incident will trigger Pax to tell Skiles to play him more so West can see his skills.
"San Diego Does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 8:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not just
wait for Vince Carter?  Could he be the franchise guy?  I don't know, but he might get sick of NJ soon, and nix his contract.  I think it's not a bad option, he could play sg, and then trade Gordon or Hinrich for Gasol next year if available.
Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Feb 7, 2007 8:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Please no
Vince is a fake superstar. He's not tough until he's dunking on you. Then, he puts on his mean face, and flaunts around like a peacock. He is good for sportscenter highlights and that's about it. He would be harder for me to root for than Rodman.

by Repeat Threepeat on Feb 7, 2007 8:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
Vince is made for the slam-dunk contest and for doing commercials, not for winning tough games.  He leaves the game at the slightest injury, doesn't play solid defense, and complains when anything goes wrong.

Has Carter ever played on a contender?  The raptors had that one year where they played a pretty good series against the 76ers in the playoffs ... I think that was as far as he's ever gotten.  Keep in mind, the last 2 years he's played with a pretty good PG and a decent SF and still not gotten much done.

I'd rather have Gasol, and I'm not even that big a Gasol fan.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather trade Hinrich than Deng.
But let's be realistic, Gasol's always going to do more than Deng numbers wise and where we need it, down low.  I love Deng, but after next year's extension, they'll have similarly rich contracts, and the deal seems good.  Thabo/Deng/PJ/Our Pick for Pau.  I think that's a good trade.  Anything more, and that's too much.  However, getting Vinsanity for nothing but money would be better cuz we hold on to our pieces.
Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Feb 7, 2007 8:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad...
we're talking basketball again.. but Deng AND Thabo??  IF Deng is included I would not want to see another valuable piece moved at all.  
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 7, 2007 8:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is anybody watching the Memphis game?
"San Diego Does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 8:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No...
Does Gasol look good?
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 7, 2007 8:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just turned it on
At the half 17 pts, 7-10, 3-6 FT, 4 TOs
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 7, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Surprisingly
He's the only one who's doing something on his team tonight, but Dirk is outplaying him obviously.
"San Diego Does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 8:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes he did..
29pts  13-19, 9 Rebs. 3 Assists, 4Blocks...
Too bad he had 9TOs... but he played his ass off.
He's been playing so good the last few games that other than him asking for a trade, I don't know why West would get rid of him. Matt is right.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 10:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Matt; for the love of all things holy
please do something about this. Not only did I read through 100 comments, but I do feel as if i'm about ready to start, gasp, go rooting for the pistons knowing that there are bulls fans like kevin, chris, trader, and whoever else the fuck is one and the same (i'll leave colossus out, because he shows dedication to the team...for better or worse)

Can you limit diary creation on gasol, limit comments by certain people in a given time, or take some unprecedented popular soveirngty approving tyrannical role (i've been reading alot of Hobbes lately, so you can see the influence)? Please....

I promise I will spell and grammar check every post from now on......please?

by milesgmsu on Feb 7, 2007 9:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

My
thoughts on this are higher up on this thread. I just don't want to be redundant.
"San Diego Does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 9:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me?
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh Crap
You again? Trader? Oh boy...
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 7, 2007 9:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, it's him
He's the first person I think I've ever seen misspell the word "homie" (that's twice in this thread, in fact).

by ChrisRobin on Feb 7, 2007 11:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it was
sorry everyone who was subjected to that (again). I do what I can.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 7, 2007 11:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's cool Matt
 Thanks again.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 7:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of LOST...
...you've official lost it.

by ChrisRobin on Feb 7, 2007 11:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i wouldnt have a problemw with that trade
but im pretty sure the league office, and every sonics fan ever would

by milesgmsu on Feb 8, 2007 4:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well....
Lewis has been out for about two months with a wrist injury.  I'm sure he can get back to his old form, but I'd much rather see it happen first.

Actually, we could easily go after Lewis this summer.  He made it sound like he's going to opt out and go somewhere else.  He probably would have been traded if not for his wrist injury.  

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 7, 2007 10:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

the Sonics
Said they're going to keep either Lewis or Ray Allen.  If they're shopping Ray, they probably want to re-sign Lewis (he's also younger).

I think Lewis is still playing under his original contract, which means the Sonics (under the CBA) have the right to offer him more money than anyone else, if I understand correctly.  He would really have to want to leave.

As far as that trade proposed above ... the Sonics suck right now.  Why would we want to trade our whole team for theirs? But I do like Lewis and think he'd make a good addition by himself.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 9:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK
well, that might make him easier to get in a trade (though obviously we wouldn't be able to get him on the free agent market).

If the Bulls don't make any moves this year, and Lewis is available by trade this summer, I'd be in favor of going after him.  But he can't really play the 4, so we'd still have the same hole in the line-up.

The more I think about it, the more I'm troubled by drafting Tyrus last year.  I like the kid, he's exciting and has talent, but we now have too many guys who are basically going to be most effective at the 3.  With Deng solidly ensconsed in the position, we're stuck with playing Tyrus or Noc pretty much out of position (I don't think Tyrus will ever really be a PF at 6'8", especially with the 6'9" Wallace at the 5).

I don't think Aldridge was that great, but at least he'd have filled a need.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 10:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Height has nothing to do with it
Shawn Marion stands at 6-7. And pays the 4. His hops make up for the lack of hieght for his position. The game is smaller now.
-
Lewis is a great all around player, but I believe the need is a Post player to complement the backcourt. So, no, Lewis would not be right. And I doubt he's even in Paxon's sights. If he is, Im sure he'll do good tho, as the Bulls like to run, if the style of play changes, he'd be good. Considering Ben Wallace is still part of the team, I doubt the style will change much.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, Marion is awesome at the 4
and that's a good point.  But my point about the Tyrus pick still stands.  I like the guy, but I don't see why they essentially picked him to bury him at a position where they already have several good options.

This all changes if you think Tyrus can play the 4.  Personally, I really don't.  It might not be (entirely) due to his height, but I think he'd be best (irrespective of team/roster) by losing 15 lbs. and playing the 3.  I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I do watch a lot of basketball and I've seen Tyrus play several times.  I don't think he'll ever be a good PF.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Losing 15lbs???
I would settle for sometype of offense game from the outside before I put Tyrus's skinny ass on weight watchers.

by Jesse07 on Feb 8, 2007 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well, he can do 2 things at once

Losing weight and developing an outside game.  I'm sure Tyrus can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Again, I'm not saying he should do this.  I'm saying that, if you DON'T consider the team he plays for or the roster, but were to just look at Tyrus from an objective, "what kind of player should he be?" standpoint, I personally think he'd be better at the 3 than the 4.  Given that, I'd tell him to lose a little weight.  just my opinion.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand & partially agree
I understand your point of view on him being a tweener and in your eyes a better 3 down the line.  

I just don't understand why we would want him lighter?  There are players who try and bulk up and lose there explosiveness a couple years into the league.  This is not the case with Tyrus.  

If he gains some more stregnth without losing his explosiveness, the extra size & stregnth will only help him when he is matched up with stronger small forwards like Lebron or Artest.

by Jesse07 on Feb 8, 2007 2:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that's one of the dumbest things I've heard
Tyrus is listed at 6'9" 215 lbs.  He's probably 6'8" and might be 220 now.  He'd be concentration camp skinny if he lost 15 lbs.  Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Sweetney?

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

asdf

I'm not confusing him with Sweetney, he probably weighs at least 225 now, and he could stand to get a little quicker IF he's going to play the 3.  

AGAIN - I'm NOT saying Tyrus should lose weight.  I'm saying that, IF I were to look at him irrespective of the fact that he plays for the Bulls and they already have too many SFs, I'd say he's better suited to the 3 than the 4.  Given that scenario, I'd want him to get quicker, which usually involves losing weight.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good points

At any rate, he's not going to listen to us, and I guess at age 20 or whatever it's likely he'll only get bigger as he ages.

Again, I like the kid, and I always root for him.  I just think he's better suited for the 3(in my opinion, which doesn't count for anything).

Given that, he might not have been the best pick last year.  Bulls already had Deng at the 3, and Noc, a natural 3 who's already stuck at the 4.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nocioni like Tyrus
isn't a natural anything. Wouldn't Thomas and the Bulls be better served if he played primarily at power forward? Deng isn't going anywhere position-wise, and that's the weakest position at the moment. Thomas' shot blocking and rebounding abilities are better off closer to the basket. That said, he's still going to play everywhere over the course of his career, it's useless to debate it. And the weight thing is just ridiculous (which has already been noted). Thomas has some growing to do.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 3:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the Bulls definitely would

be better suited with Tyrus at the power forward, because that's where they need him.  

But I think, as a player, he's more naturally suited to the small forward.  It was only in that context that I would want him to get lighter and quicker.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't
see how losing 15pounds would help anything...
He looks like a 3 cause he plays like a maniac! I think he'll develop and be a good fit for the team in the long run, if they decide to keep him. If not, he's good trade bait for a real 4. I think him maybe gaining some weight wwould actually be better. So he can pound it out sith bigger 4s.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

huh?
"He looks like a 3 cause he plays like a maniac!"

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, that actually makes sense

If you watch Tyrus play, he's a little too high energy for PF.  He has the strength and the post skills of a PF but the height and energy of a 3.

As far as his losing weight - that obviously is all premised on my opinion that he's better suited to play the 3.  If he's convinced (or Skiles and Pax are convinced) that he belongs at PF, then that doesn't come into play.

My point wasn't to say that Tyrus is fat - he obviously isn't.  My point was that, if he's a natural 3 (as I think, and I know I'm not in charge of anything) they drafted a guy at a position of little need.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess
I don't have the crazy. Go back to arguing amongst yourselves about this.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How...
...that clip popped into your mind is beyond me.

by EdNealy on Feb 8, 2007 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Do you have the crazy?"
would be why.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is a crazy ass movie...
But anyway, I think he's too young for anybody to judge where he should play now. He doesn't even get enough playing time.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 3:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too High Energy?
Not to pick on you BM, but I would love that my four plays with high energy, especially in this age in the NBA when teams are running more.  Dennis Rodman was a high energy guy; Tryus just needs to learn to use that energy to help the team.

by Jesse07 on Feb 8, 2007 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind being picked on

and I respect your opinion.  The high-energy comment referred to whether he was better suited to the 3 or the 4.  

Do I like the fact that he plays with heart and energy?  Sure.  What I meant was that, if you were to look at Tyrus from college clips, or workout clips, or whatever, and say "where do I see this guy playing in the NBA?" you'd have certain things that indicate he'd be better at the 4, and certain things that indicate he'd be better at the 3 (including his energy).  

On the balance, I say he's a better natural 3.  Obviously, the Bulls can't play him there.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Instead of repeating yourself,
why not outline what you think the difference between a 3 and a 4 is. No one knows why you have this stance, except for heart, energy, and weight. None of that is the least bit convincing by the way. Thomas needs to gain strength to play anywhere, which is pretty evident when he gets bounced around in the paint. Extra strength doesn't have to mean a weight gain either.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK

I didn't mean to repeat myself, I've just been responding to the responses as they come.  

In general, SFs are smaller (hence the name), shorter, and quicker than PFs.  PFs specialize in posting up, getting rebounds, and generally playing in the paint.  SFs can also work out of the post, but also play facing the basket, and are required to run and pass a little more.

In my mind, Tyrus is better suited to the 3 because: he's only 6'8" (shorter than almost all 4s in the league), he has a quick enough step to play either back-to-the-basket OR facing-the-basket, and doesn't do that well at drawing double-teams, in part because he can't or won't hold onto the ball long enough for the double-team to come.

He doesn't need to gain strength to play anywhere, he needs to gain strength ONLY if he's going to play at the 4.  If he were to play at the 3 (where I theoreticallly said he'd be better, although not with the current roster) gaining quickness would be better than gaining strength.

Plenty of SFs under 210 pounds.  
Andre Iguodala (207)
Dorell Wright (205)
Josh Childress (210)
Marquis Daniels (200)
Even the afore-mentioned Rashard Lewis is only 215.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's a correllation between height and weight
and I think most if not all of those guys are shorter than Tyrus.  He's never ever ever going to be lighter than he is now.  And he might keep growing like Deng did.  So the "lose some weight" argument is absolutely ridiculous.  He doesn't have any baby fat (No I am not DannyR, so I don't have intimate knowledge of that fact), and he needs to add strength to play more effectively at either the 3 or the 4.  His development path is so similar to Deng's that I feel like he could eventually replace Deng.  Unfortunately, it sounds like he is a lot less mature than Deng, so I could be way off base there.

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 4:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His development path

IS similar to Deng's - which is exactly why I'm saying he's naturally better suited to play the 3.

Tyrus is a little undersized to play the 4. I think he'd do well at the 3 (on most teams); but if he were to do that, I'd say he would have to get quicker.  Losing weight could help him do that.
 

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 4:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No it wouldn't
because to lose weight he would necessarily have to lose muscle, which would make him weaker than he already is.  Think about it for a second.  At 6'8" or 9" 220 is his ideal weight.

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he

would have to lose a LOT of muscle, then clearly that wouldn't be smart.  I've seen him play a lot, in person and on TV, and I think 225 (or even higher) is his ideal weight at PF.

Which is where he has to play, given the current make-up of this team.  

But in a different situation, I think he'd thrive at the 3, in which case I do think he could lose a few pounds to run with the Childress/Iguodala types.
Trading a little strength for quickness would be a good move in that case. I'm not saying he's fat.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you don't work out much, do you...
quickness is based more on muscle, not weight.

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 5:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually worked as a personal trainer for 3 year
I still work out at least twice a week, although you're right, I prob'ly don't work out as much as I should.

Quickness is based on fast-twitch muscle, which isn't that heavy. Compared to most guys in the street, Tyrus is both very quick and very strong.  But in the world of professional sports, most people who want to get quicker are told to lose weight, especially in the form of slow-twitch muscle. Most who want to get stronger (at the possible expense of quickness) are told to gain weight, especially in the form of slow-twitch muscle.

Muscle controls quickness, but pretty much every athlete who wants to get quicker ends up losing a few lbs. Because they shed heavy slow twitch muscle and keep (possibly even gain) fast-twitch muscle.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that's my point
he needs to add either/both kind of muscle, and he doesn't have any fat to shed.

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he shed
a few pounds of heavy, slow-twitch muscle, he'd be a little weaker (but still strong enough to play the 3) and a little faster.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this might be
the worst conversation ever....thats related to basketball...and the bulls...on blogabull.....

all that ebing said, after about 10 posts with weight and hieght my eyes started to bleed and i went BACK to reading adam smith...thanks guys

by milesgmsu on Feb 9, 2007 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't understand your argument.
The difference in size between SF and PF is not that much.
The quickness that you want to achieve with Tyrus won't be achieved thrugh losing weight, if he loses more weight, he'd be like T.Prince... So, Lets see some numbers since you brought up some players who are the size u'd like Tyrus to be. Oh and of all those AI2 is the only one doing something in this league interms of performance...
-
Tyrus Thomas
235Lbs - 6-9
-
PFs:
S.Marion
228Lbs - 6-7
-
E.Brand
254Lbs - 6-8
-
A.Jamison
235Lbs - 6-9
-
C.Boozer
258Lbs - 6-9
-
I could do this all day... These guys are established above average PFs in the NBA. All around the same "proportions" as T2. And If im correct, Ty has a longer wingspan than all these guys which would make him a force as a PF. He can't shoot well enough to be a 3. He needs to put on 15Pounds if you ask me.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus is only 6'8"
and he's among the shorter PFs in the league. Only Marion is demonstrably shorter.  
Look at the best PFs in the league:

Garnett - 6'11"
Dirk - 7'0"
Jermaine O - 6'11"
Duncan - 6'11"
'Sheed - 6'11"

And, yes, Marion is also awesome at 6'7"  If you think Tyrus can become a Marion type, then, yes, maybe he's better suited at PF in your mind.  I personally don't see that, and think he's going to have trouble at the 4.
That's my opinion. That's also what pretty much every analyst said after the draft last year.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

these days
those guys are all considered centers, but they did use to be PF's.

by bullshooter on Feb 8, 2007 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not a single one of those guys
is considered a center, unless teams are now starting 2 centers.

Garnett - starts next to Mark Blount (7 feet)

Dirk - starts next to Dampier (6'11"), or sometimes Diop (7 feet)

JO - starts next to Troy Murphy (6'11)

Duncan - starts next to Elson (7 feet)

Wallace - starts next to Nazr Muhammed (6'11") or Webber (6'10").

Every single one of these teams has 2 guys starting that are 6'11" or taller.  That's the protoypical height for PF, or at least 6'10"

Can a player be shorter than that and still a good PF?  Of course.  I just said that I think Tyrus would not be at his best there, and would be better at the 3.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a suggestion...
List me five small forwards who are 6'8" 215 lbs and are very good to great.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What I don't get...
is why it's so hard for people to say, "Ya know what? I thought I had something here. But through good argument by others and independent research on my part, I see now that I am wrong. Oops."

I think that'd be cool. I know it's tough to admit it, but NO ONE seems to want to these days.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't have trouble

admitting I'm wrong if I thought I was.  See the above post - the best PFs are mostly over 6'10" tall.  

As far as your question, there are many good SFs in the league who fit the bill.  

Rashard Lewis is 6'9", 215
Stephen Jackson is 6'8", 218
Gerald Wallace is 6'7", 220
Josh Howard is 6'7", 210

I also recall at least 2 commentators saying Tyrus would be better at the 3 after this year's draft.  I'll try to find a link when I get home tonight.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok
Marion aside.. all those guys you mentioned that are 6-11 and up should be centers in any team. What about Brand, or Boozer, Jamison? How about Z.Randolph? He's fat and 6-9.
-
Tyrus is prob 6'8" and a half. He's listed as 6'9"
Unless you've measured him yourself, I'd rather go with his NBA listing:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyrus_thomas/index.html
-
He might be lighter than I said before. On Yahoo he's at 235 - NBA 215...
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

see the above post

Every single one of those guys starts next to a taller (or same height) guy.  

6'8" and a half is short for a PF.  It's not impossible to compete at that position, but that's a better height for SF.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ok fine...
Tyrus is 6'9". The link is above.
He is not 6'8". He is 19yrs old. and prob grow an inch or two. And gain 15 more pounds.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and a more recent one
Just a few days ago - also has Thomas at 6'8"

http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/659/tyrus_thomas/

So, maybe he's 6'8" and a half. Better suited to the 3 than the 4, in my opinion. I see you disagree, and I understand that ... we'll have to see where he ends up playing (both team-wise and position-wise) before anyone is proven right or wrong.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 6:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...
Here...
As listed in Bulls Website. His emplyer. I think they are more accurate.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/roster/

"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 10:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I was wrong. He's 20
Im not going any further with this after this post. Just want to mention a few things before I go.
-
Shouldn't you be looking at the profile given by the League he plays for instead of a News Source? Also, by reading thru the link you posted, it still says he's a Forward from LSU... hmmm.. sounds outdated to me except for his age. Which is probably meant to be changed automatically as the time changes. And, if you read his scouting report, it says there in plain Black and white what we have been saying all along and I quote:

Positives: Big-time athlete who is getting compared to another LSU alum, Stromile Swift. Flies up and down the floor. Excellent rebounder and shot blocker. Unlike Swift, seems to have excellent intensity and has a better feel for the game. Nice touch on his mid-range jumper. Teams may try to transition him into a Shawn Marion-type small forward in the pros.

Negatives: Needs to add more muscle. Still thin to play the four in the pros and doesn't have the perimeter skills to move to the three. Doesn't possess much in the way of post moves at the moment.
-
Obviously, Vertical Leap and Wing-Span make up for his "lack of size" as it so does for Marion and Josh Smith. There is no-one in the league who plays more out of position than those two and still able to do it successfully. Granted, Smith doesn't play the PF position, but guards around the post as a PF does.
-
I understand that you stand by what you believe, and I believe I've given enough information to try and prove you wrong.
But from here-on.. I agree to disagree,

"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 10:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

We'll see what happens with him.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 10:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

david lee
i advocated getting david lee all summer...too late now.

by Sambossanova on Feb 8, 2007 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How's this for a source -

one Tyrus Thomas:

"Thomas said after the workout that he sees himself more as a three than a four in the pros.

'I really wasn't allowed to play the three at LSU so people don't understand that I've been either a guard or a small forward my whole life," Thomas explained. "This is the first year I've ever really played the four. I think I'll always be more comfortable on the perimeter.' "

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=113506

Any thoughts?

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 9:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

please stop
He's going to play everywhere. Probably mostly at the 4 because of his length, rebounding, and shotblocking. It isn't a debate because he doesn't even have a "natural position." A stupid quote made before he ever played a second in the NBA doesn't change anything.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 9:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well

I think, all things being equal, he's better suited for the 3.  If you've decided you don't want to argue otherwise, just stop responding.  No one has a gun to your head.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 10:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeesh
You're arguing based on a guesstimated weight. It's stupid and pointless and I can't stand for that. Thomas spends most of his time on the court on his back, and you think he should lose weight to get faster. You can't run if you can't even stand up. It doesn't matter what position the guy plays (as if position matters that much in basketball).

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 10:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

again ...

I didn't say he should lose weight.  I said IF he was on a different team, with different needs, he'd be better at the 3.  In that case, yes, I think losing a few pounds would make him better.

As far as your last statement, "as if position matters that much in basketball" - I don't even know where to begin with that.  Why don't we put Duhon in at the 4?  Then, when he gets knocked over, you can say "yeah, he needs to spend more time in the weight room with Wallace."

Good stuff.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 10:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

within reasonable boundaries
like power forward isn't that far away from small forward you nit. The individual player determines production by position more often than not. Thomas' versatility is his value.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would think...
Nocioni at the four and Marion at the four are perfect examples of "position doesn't matter".

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 11:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

obviously a better player

is more productive than a crappier player - that's not a scoop.

The point was, given the 5 positions on every NBA team, I think Tyrus is naturally better suited to the 3.  Some people agree with you that he isn't.  Tyrus agrees with me that he is. So, you can believe what you want.  I'll take him at his word.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember Alfonso Soriano...
...saying he'd never play in the outfield and refused to the field up until the day he finally did. Then, when he finally signed with the Cubs, he insisted on playing in the outfield.

Players think they should play a lot of places. Means nothing.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 11:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if playing SS

required a baseball player to be a certain height, and Soriano was smaller than almost every other SS in the league, then the comparison would be appropriate.  But in Tyrus' case, his height AND his natural inclination both lead to SF.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The funny thing is...
you just changed 15 pounds to a "few" pounds. 15 pounds is 6.5% of his body weight. When someone probably has around 7-8% body fat (if that)...

You're a trainer, tell me how someone gets below 3-4% body fat. Pleeeeeeze. Wait, 3-4% is isn't healthy by any standards. In fact, the only people ever really that skinny or body builders in competition.

Most athletes who are absolutely ripped (the leanest there is) are about 5-6% body fat. So, working backwards, that puts TT's body fat currently at 9%. That is soooo not true.

Finally, you're a former personal trainer. I'm really curious to know, how does someone go about losing slow-twitch muscle fibers but not fast-twitch? If you can answer this question, I will call you god forever. If not, you're an idiot that needs to shut up.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 11:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hahahaha!!!!
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 11:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't expect

you to call me a god, because most people who understand biology can understand the process.

But, the way to drop heavy muscle and pounds while increasing quickness is to stop (or reduce) free-weight training, reduce caloric intake, and increase plyometric training, which relies on rapid/explosive muscle movements, especially with gradually increasing resistance.  This is what boxers do to increase their punching power, while not putting on pounds or even increasing their strength (as the term is commonly understood).  Most boxers couldn't lift much weight compared to how hard they can punch,and they don't weigh much compared to how much power they generate.

I don't understand where the anger is coming from, but that's your problem.  I think you might be confusing me with someone else you have a long-standing gurdge against. If you've gotten this angry over a discussion about Tyrus' weight, that'sjust sad.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm....
I think Tyger should try your method, Get tested.. and if it works, then he can call you God... If not you should say Tyrus Needs to go to the Gym and have Wallace train him.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 11:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sounds good

If one has the discipline, you can definitely lose weight and gain quickness, even if you're already in good shape.  It requires a lot of dedication, both as far as diet and as far as training.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but
if he gets traded, then all bets are off...
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 11:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no, that's the whole point

I think he'd do better to move the the 3, and drop a few pounds, on a DIFFERENT team.  Clearly the Bulls aren't going to have him do so when they already have a log-jam at the 3.

The bet should take effect IF tyrus gets traded.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat
nit.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 11:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oooo

Good one, professor!

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 11:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow!
You have vastly oversimplified fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles. And without so much as one source. But I figured that. Basically, you said something that logically makes sense, so therefore it must be right.

So I'll do the same.

First off, you're wrong about slow-twitch being for 'strength'. Fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers BOTH PRODUCE THE SAME AMOUNT OF STRENGTH. However, slow-twitch muscles don't fire as rapidly (hence, the name), but they also don't fatigue as easy. While a fast-twitch muscle may fire rapidly, it quickly tires out.

Second, most people have a 50/50 balance of types of twitch muscles, or something very close. It's genetically determined. As far ash changing them, I don't know how you know, because studies are just being shown that you can change from fast-twitch to slow... but currently theren't enough to show whether you can do the opposite.

Third, you are right in general: if a person loses weight, they will be quicker. But it has nothing to do with muscles. It's about the weight.

Fourth, a person doesn't HAVE to lose weight to get quicker. Football players, through the first five years of their professional careers, will get quicker while adding 5-10 pounds. (this is similar to your point about boxers: they can get "stronger" while staying the same weight. Force = Mass x Speed, right? So, Mass stays the same, you increase Speed, you get a higher Force, right?)

All of this is pretty much moot, because fifth, nothing to do with muscle, but more with position differences: Sweetney is 6'8", 270 (listed). Deng is listed at 6'9", 220. Should they change weights and change positions? No. Why not? Because their games are VASTLY different.

The same is with Thomas. He can't shoot. At all. Hell, now he can't even dunk. All he can do is rebound and block shots. That's not good for a three. What would make Thomas a good 3 is if he can develop a shot and some handles. If you want to say, "Thomas should do that, or could do that with another team." Fine.

Look, there's a reason LeBron James is 6'8", 240 lbs and a small forward. And it has nothing to do with how skinny he is or how quick he is. What it has to do with the fact that he can shoot, he has incredible ability to drive to the basket under control while being aware of the whole court. The ability to create.

Thomas, for whatever team he plays for, will not ever be under 220 lbs. Whether he develops into a SF or PF has nothing to do with losing weight. It will have EVERYTHING to do with whether he can do the things a three does or not.

by tyger1147 on Feb 9, 2007 12:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'VE BEEN WAITNING FOR YOU MAN..
AMEN
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 9, 2007 12:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with the last 2 sentences

And I think he can do the things a 3 has to do.  And so does he. Some people don't think he can, and therefore they don't see him becoming a successful 3.  That's all just speculation until he grows up, or at least becomes a starter.

Studies haven't really shown that you can switch from fast-twitch to slow or vice versa ... some studies claim that, but it's really not conclusive either way.  What I'm talking about is not converting muscle from type to type, but LOSING the muscle that does nothing to make one quicker and gaining (or at least retaining) the muscle that does.  And it can be done, and is done all the time.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 9, 2007 12:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's been real, guys
I'm going to bed.  I promise to thoughtfully and respectfully read any responses when I get to work tomorrow.

I know you don't agree with me on Tyrus but sometimes a rousing discussion is good for the health ... it angries up the blood.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 9, 2007 12:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's another thread about what Tyrus thinks
And it isn't pretty.  As far as that goes, he's got a lot of work to do to be a pure 3, and I don't think any of us think he is going to get there anytime soon if at all.

by bullshooter on Feb 9, 2007 12:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus
isn't a finesse guy, and with his leaping ability would be better off gaining some strength so he doesn't get knocked around every time he drives. His already good rebounding would improve if he could better establish position too.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he doesn't have to be a finesse guy,

I'm not saying he's a guard.  And he wouldn't get knocked around on drives if he was playing against SFs instead of PFs.
The fact that he gets knocked around on drives and fails to get the best rebounding position augments the point that he should be playing at the 3.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 4:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No
It argues the point that he should be in the weight room with Ben Wallace so he doesn't get pushed around.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he's 19
At the risk of cliche he's a boy playing against full grown men. It doesn't matter what position Thomas is playing, and it doesn't matter what your feelings on weight are, he's going to grow more, add muscle and get stronger. And that's a good thing. You still have to drive past a big or two to get to the rim.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 8, 2007 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think TT could play the three...
if he was around 6'8", 235 pounds

and had an outside shot with great handles and passing ability.

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2007 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

6'9" 200?
Puzzling. Tell an already emaciated 1st year player to lose weight.

Thomas is 20 years old and is effectively (as much as we hate to admit), a three year vaunted "project", although I love the prospects. Unlike Chandler, who came back each summer with more tatoos, but no more weight, Thomas should be able to "bulk-up" to 240 or so over the next few years (see Kenyon Martin). With his wing-span and jumping, he'll be fine at the 4.

by EdNealy on Feb 8, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way he's 200

He was listed at 220 at the beginning of the year, and he's gotten heavier, if anything.

See my above comment - given the current situation, Tyrus pretty much has to play PF.  There's no where else to put him.  But I personally think he'd be better suited at the 3 (but for the fact that we're already set there).

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NO!
Dropping your requisite amount of weight gets him close to 200 though.

by EdNealy on Feb 8, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see

I misunderstood that.  Probably nearer 210, which isn't that out of line with a lot of SFs in the league.

As is stands now, the Bulls really have no option but to play him as PF.  But if he were on a different team with more holes, I'd say he's better suited to the 3.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 8, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and
did you know that Chicago was rated the "fattest city" in the US in '06. Keep Thomas here for the summers and we'll have him looking like Sweetney in no time.

http://chicago.about.com/od/aboutchicago/a/010705_fat.htm

by EdNealy on Feb 8, 2007 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eureka
This, plus this year's #2 and next year's #1.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=99~2175~3032~996&teams=29~29~29~4

One young stud.  Two expiring contracts.  Two draft picks.

One unrealistic fantasy?

B-jizzle my nizzle!

by preverbal on Feb 8, 2007 12:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

boy..
would that be nice!  We just need Gasol to up the dramatics here and something like that can happen.  So, Pau,if you're reading... please tell Jerry West that you DEMAND a trade and will no longer give the Grizz any effort at all.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 8, 2007 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course..
I would only want that to happen if it is completely out of character for Gasol and he would only be doing it to come to Chi.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Feb 8, 2007 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would
go for that trade.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 8, 2007 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oh Gasol
I initially wanted that trade, and I hope it will end up being that.  (I posted this about 10 Gasol Diaries ago.)  

I do agree Gasol could help the Bull's trade effort if he acted more disgruntle.  If Gasol really wants to come to Chicago and win, maybe he can get a real bad attitude for a couple of weeks to help grease the trade wheels.

Only 2 more weeks of this maddness.  

by Jesse07 on Feb 8, 2007 1:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Did anyone see that Eddy Curry has stated that he
will demand a trade if Isiah doesn't come back next season?

Maybe we can trade some players back to NY for that post presence we need. :)

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 8, 2007 2:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I saw that
It's funny cause apparently that'll be the only way Isiah Thomas will keep his job.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

O-k
I'm only taking a guess here but you must be "Trader" aka "Matty"...
get on with it man.. you're not wanted here.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You can have him
the only player on that abortion you call a basketball team I'd want is David Lee.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 8, 2007 5:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Come on
Isiah is an absolute moron.

He'd do it.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 8, 2007 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ok
First tome blogger... my bad.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 8, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

My post above was satire.
You, uh, realize that...right?

I don't think anyone seriously wants Curry back.

Ease up on the caps there.

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 8, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um, OK.
I think NY Knick fans have been saying "next will be our year" since Willis Reed hobbled off into the sunset.

by 1958ChiTown on Feb 8, 2007 5:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hah
hahahaha

Thats funny. Your funny! welcome :)

Id prefer a center who rebounds and defends...plus Tyrus, cap space and next years pick

by rquinsee on Feb 8, 2007 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

3-way satisfaction
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=99~2381~2456~2175~3032~996~2794~497&te ams=29~29~12~12~29~4~4~4

We're taking a lot on in salary in this deal, but it'll satisfy all the teams needs.

It hurts with Noc being injured, but the Clips are having problems with Maggette. They need another inside guy (Only hope that they think Sweets is the solution.)
Positives: Maggette's salary is manageable and he can play the 2 to replace BG.
It should get Thabo more minutes also.

The Grizz get their younsters and cap relief. They don't need a draft pick with that package. I through in Warrick for cap purposes.

The Bulls may have to throw in another 2nd rounder to LA, but maybe not since LA is probably close to wanting Maggette out.

New rotation:
Kirk/Du
Maggette/Thabo
Deng/Khryapa
Gasol/Warrick
Wallace/Allen

Go head, grill me now...

by kingj41 on Feb 9, 2007 12:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind it...
While I feel Deng is the better player, I like keeping Gordon a lot more than Deng. But if you have Magette replacing Gordon, then maybe it works.

No one will look at this, but I've been thinking it and just wanted to put it out there.

Deng is the guy to trade over Gordon. If the Bulls trade BG, what's the guard rotation? Hinrich, Duhon, Griffin, Thabo? As much as i love Thabo, he hasn't had enough minutes for me to feel comfortable enough that a) he'll perform or b) Skiles will use him.

OTOH, if you trade away Deng, you have Noc and Khryapa that could possibly play the 3 now (and if you get someone for the three). PLUS, I think one of the best 3's with immediate dividends will fall in the draft-Florida State's Al Thornton He's a 23-year-old senior who is agressive and plays with high energy. While I don't think he would be even close to Deng's point output potential, I think putting him with Wallace, Hinrich, Gordon and Gasol, he'd be perfect. He'd be able to contribue right away. Had he been in last year's draft, I think he might have gone Top 5. But this one's sooooo deep and loaded with big men and other 3/4's, I think he'd be a huge value pick.

Anyway, like I said, I don't expect anyone to care, but I've thought about this and while I consider Deng the best player the Bulls have, I also think he's more easily replacable than Gordon. I could be wrong, though; I often am.

by tyger1147 on Feb 9, 2007 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

unacceptable
I completely reject the idea that Noc/Khryapa are capable 3s. They're just too slow and stationary at that wing position, and nearly as bad as replacing Gordon with Du/Sefo

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 9, 2007 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Off the track
Matt - I am an avid Bulls fan that couldn't find a venue to dialogue about these issues.  This site has been a blessing for me.  It allows me to share frustrations very few people understand.  I could use without the occasional adolescent banter but in general enjoy knowing what people think regarding my favorite subject, the Bulls.  Thank you!
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 9, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

quit trying to suck up
;-)

and on another note (im on dial up and lost the original post) that trade is fantastic, but as hollinger has a habit of saying "the trade has to work for all invovled....not just your team"....bulls rape two of the better gm's in the league...logo and elgin...with broomsticks and squirrels in that deal

by milesgmsu on Feb 9, 2007 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um...
Isn't "nearly as bad" the key?

If the Bulls are going to lose one, you can't just think of who is better. You have to think about the short-term and long-term replacements.

You said "nearly as bad" which to means it's better for the short-term (seriously, who's the outside threat if the Bulls trade Gordon away?). For the short-term, Noc/Krappy/Griffin for Deng is better than Sefo/Du/Griffin for Gordon.

Second, for a long-term, there are four options: develop in-house, trade, draft and free agent. Sefo might be able to do it, but we just don't know-he's the key. A free agent that can replace Gordon will (obviously) cost a lot of money: ie, Vince Carter.

A trade for Ray Allen or Paul Pierce or another impact 2 is going to cost picks and parts that after trading for Gasol, the Bulls wouldn't have.

There aren't many "instant impact" guys for the 2 spot in the draft. There are good ones that might mature, but it's not deep there. Definitely none that would be certain to be better than Sefolosha. There is, IMO, one at the three in Al Thornton. Like I said, the guy will be 24 next December.

In the perfect situation, he could be an immediate impact. I think with two big scorers (Gasol and Gordon) and two or three or above-average assist guys (Gasol and Hinrich), I think he'd be perfect.

Personally, I'd rather not lose either one. I'm just, as everyone, speaking hypotheticals here. I just think it's funny (I'm bored and avoiding working-gimme a break) that you said you would rather have Sefo/Du replace Gordon than Noc/Khryapa replacing Deng.

by tyger1147 on Feb 9, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

uh....no i didn't
I said the opposite, although they're both bad scenarios

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 9, 2007 2:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you didn't.
I just put a scenario where if we had to lose one, I'd rather lose Deng. I guess I don't read enough here to know that you wouldn't make a trade for Gasol if it meant losing either one of those guys.

So... I just assumed, since you were responding to my post (instead of ignoring it like I assumed everyone would in a long, old "Gasol diary"), and you didn't like Noc/Krappy over Deng, that it would have to be the other.

by tyger1147 on Feb 9, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lets make this clearer
I'd prefer to lose neither, but technically they have more to fall back on if they lost Deng. However the options are nothing to write home about, which I think goes against what most people think around here.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 9, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay...
I thought that's what I was saying. Deng is 'technically' easier to replace, even if it's not great; might not be much short-term, but I'd rather it. But I think long-term, with Thornton, it's a no-brainer. Obviously, I agree, duh, if the Bulls could get Gasol without giving up either, I'd take that. Just... even though I 'love' deng as a player, I just think he's more replacable than Gordon.

by tyger1147 on Feb 10, 2007 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Gordon
doesn't hit shots at the ends of games, he's not that hard to replace either.

by bullshooter on Feb 10, 2007 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

coming out of self-appointed disgust ban
to point out it doesn't matter what point in the game Gordon makes shots, it's consistently scoring 20+ every game that matters. End of game stuff is luck, and it shouldn't come to that if the team plays well anyway.

by Paxson Jackson on Feb 10, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gordon potential
I also think Gordon has significant upside potential even though I don't pull the trigger if we lose either Deng or Gordon.  Gordon has the unique ability to win games for you down the stretch.  That is unique.  His shortcomings, i.e. turning the Ball over are correctable.  You can't teach someone to hit clutch shots.  Gordon seems to do that and so far Deng is not as good at it as Gordon.
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 9, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like that deal
Although I don't think the Clippers would deal Magette merely for cap relief. Although Noc would give them more 3-point shooting, which they need.

THAT would be a scenario where I'd be ok with giving up Gordon. Just replacing him with Duhon/Sefo does enough damage where Gasol wouldn't help enough.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 9, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I figured the
criticizing the coach http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3336 and fact that getting a couple of players that could probably better contribute to their style of play as well as giving us some return on the Brand trade would make it worth looking at.

It could actually be split into two seperate deals, I just put it all on one trade to see all the players trading places.
Plus we have a couple of 2nd rounders that I think have value in this draft.

by kingj41 on Feb 9, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Give them a 2008 first round pick
or something.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 9, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It kills me - - -
to give up Gordon or Deng.  I like Warrick for TT.  TT looks like a head case.  I know Paxson was worried he was going to die but Curry would have been a great solution.  If we kept Curry we could have kept Gordon and Deng as well as not taking on these huge salaries.  TT has been a big disappointment.  
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 9, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How has TT Been a disappointment?!
He has not played enough to disappoint... Did you watch last nights 13 minutes of play? He did good. When Wallace was hurt the first time around, he did real good. Aside from his Mouth I have no problems with the "Rookie".
I'd understand if he was a starter as Duhon is/was/will be... again, but he's not.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 9, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks ---
I did not see the game last night(too late for me) but read in the paper, I think Trib, that a key play was Thomas blew an open dunk.  It said we were down by 8, that would have cut it to six and then after he missed the wide-opened dunk Sac hit a three to increase the lead to 11. This was portrayed as him showcasing for the slam-dunk contest.  I did not realize he had some good moments.  I saw in the box score where he had 5 fouls. What did he do that impressed you?
chgobr

by chgobr on Feb 9, 2007 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He rolled his
ankle on that attempted dunk. When he came in he had some good baskets right away. He didn't play any worse than the other players on the Bulls.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 9, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good but...
I do like that trade we get Gasol and can replace BJ with a big gaurd to play with Kirk.  The one thing that I do not like is losing Ben & Noce really kills us with 3 point shooting.  

by Jesse07 on Feb 9, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True...
But think about the more open looks you get. Throw the ball down to Gasol. All defenders peek over that way, Deng slashes and cuts thru the lane, Kirk or Corey spread out at the 3 pt line getting just enough seperation from the D to get a wide open shot. (Although when I looked at Maggette's 3 numbers I did frown.)

You do lose the 3, but you no longer have to rely on it for a score. Free throws are much easier and having a low post threat offers more basket-cuts from your wings.

by kingj41 on Feb 9, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

this is a fantastic trade
it addresses all of the problems for us.  I'd do it in a heartbeat.  Magette's ability to get to the line is crucial for late games, and Gasol's post up game spreads the floor for everybody else.  I have no hope that it will actually get down tho.

by bullshooter on Feb 9, 2007 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm
what makes him a headcase?
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 9, 2007 6:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He wears a headband
and certain people around here seem to hate Dukies.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 9, 2007 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And
why is your name Bulls Sucks? that's not even proper english.. and stop it with the CapLocks man.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 9, 2007 7:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Whats
up with that name?

by chris44 on Feb 10, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?
not called for... you're an idiot and childish.
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 11, 2007 8:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

eye argee
trdae fpr gsaolllllllll

by milesgmsu on Feb 10, 2007 9:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol!!
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 11, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm ready,
Do you guys think it time for a shake up?

by chris44 on Feb 10, 2007 9:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Definitely
I'd dump colossus right now, no questions asked.  I'd also block any new users who come up with stupid names.  All posts written entirely in caps would also be a ban-able offense.

Oh you mean the Bulls?

by bullshooter on Feb 10, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm flattered
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Feb 10, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!!!
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Feb 10, 2007 8:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BOOHOO
WHY DO YOU KEEP KICKING ME OFF AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE TALKING SHIT TOO. IM JUST RESPONDING TO THEM. I JUST WANT TO SAY TO YOU MATTY FUCK YOU AND YOUR FAG SITE CAUSE YOU CANT GET ME OFF BITCH BULLS SUCK KNICKS #1 BITCH..................

by BOOHOO on Feb 11, 2007 11:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

IP Addresses
Isn't there a way to ban his IP address?

by Rick S on Feb 12, 2007 7:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That
would be great!
"San Diego does in fact mean a Whale's Vagina"

by Goostafer on Feb 12, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BAN ME ?
HE SHOULD BAN YOU TO ALL YOU DO TALK SHIT TO EVERYBODY HE KICKS ME OFF BECAUSE IM NEW HERE .

by BOOHOO on Feb 12, 2007 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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