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Skiles' Awful Player Management: Tyrus Edition

As a fan, I want to see the best possible team on the floor.  I want to see combinations of players that give us the best possible chance to win.  I do not want to see Adrian Griffin starting, and I certainly do not want to see Skiles try to teach Tyrus a lesson via DNP-CD.

Look, I have no illusions that Thomas is going to come in and dominate.  But, haven't the Bulls looked a lot better when Thomas or Noah is on the floor?  Those guys share some common traits, namely being active around the basket with rebounds, help defense, tips and this "energy" quality that seems to be the buzzword.  It seems to me that one of those two players should be on the floor at all times (well, at least most of the time).  I'm glad that Noah is getting some burn, but what is going on with Tyrus?  Sitting him does not help the team and it does not help him develop.

Looking at the Celtics game, there was no way to get TT in there, even for 12 minutes?  Are you kidding me?  Deng is a red-hot 6 of 17 and runs for 41 minutes but there's no room for Tyrus?  Not that one would sub for the other, but BG shoots 25% and stays on the floor for 39 minutes?  The starters play heavy minutes and don't get it done.  So, why not go to the complete bench?  Oh yeah, Skiles Doghouse Syndrome.  

Why am I paying $120 a seat for this?!  Honestly, I feel like Skiles' rotations cheat the fans from being able to see the best possible Bulls' team.  You want to punish a player?  Make him run suicides after practice.  Don't take it out on me.

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FIRE SKILES NOW
His moves are infantile.

by fireskiles on Dec 9, 2007 7:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I agree (kind of)
It would be nice to see Tyrus more often more consistently, but I don't see his exclusion from the Celtics game as a mistake.  Joe Smith is no defensive powerhouse, but he's a wily veteran.  I have a feeling that Garnett would have eaten TT alive.  Also, we need to make sure Nocioni is getting burn, since he's about the only one on the team right now making shots, and we need Noah to get burn because he's giving energy and +/- in ways that TT doesn't (TT is not much of a setter of screens nor a passer).  Sure, Gordon was gunning and missing, but benching him doesn't make room for TT, unless you want to slide Deng to the 2 and play TT as a 3.

In the future, when the matchups allow: more Tyrus.  But we didn't need Tyrus vs. the Celts; we just needed to make shots (which we didn't).  That's not the rotation's fault.

(Now, if you want to blame Skiles and his staff for contributing to the poor shooting, either in skills development or the managing of the team psyche, that's another story . . .)

by arjoseph on Dec 9, 2007 9:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent
I agree completely
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 10, 2007 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think
Skiles reads Sam's columns...  Damn you Sam Smith!!

by tyrus4prez on Dec 9, 2007 9:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe a trade is looming
Maybe Ty Thomas isn't playing because Pax is thinking up a trade for him.  
Maybe they picked up Nichols because they are going to trade TT for a SG.  

by kylemcmahon on Dec 9, 2007 10:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Huh? You're making no sense
You play a player before he gets traded.  You bump up his value.  Not the other way around.  
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Dec 9, 2007 10:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it is about winning.
The team is 6-12. They need to win. Fuck player development. Yes, I understand that TT is a fan favorite. yes, it would have been nice to see Tyrus and Big Baby square off. But TT is subpar. He is subpar by my expectations, possibly has regressed since last year.

Do what works: Noah works.

Skiles is a great coach. A big trade will happen for the Bulls before a coach change.

Can the bulls trade Noah and TT to the Knicks for Curry?

by chicago-homesick-blues on Dec 9, 2007 10:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Noah has been great...
...running the floor very well, great screens, in the Pistons game I remember him getting good position near the basket, and hasn't been making stupid fouls and is all around looking smart.  Deng has been ok.  Smith has been making his jumpers. Noc has been great.  If TT isn't getting himself in position quickly, running the floor, or doing whatever it is they want him to do he has a lot of competition for floor time.  

I still think that outright benching him is a mistake for someone that young who I think still needs opportunities to show what he might have improved in.  

by cranscape on Dec 9, 2007 11:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When you say F * * * player development you
remind me of the New York Knicks. Somehow Isiah got it into his mind that he has playoff calibur players, and therefore he wants to win now at all costs. So he takes all the draft picks and young talent and flushes them down the toilet for this "win now" mentality.

In the case of Scott Skiles, winning now would be at the expense not of draft picks being traded away so much as the cost of developing these young players.

It just seems to me that the Bulls are so dysfunctional that they should be building team chemistry, getting PT for Tyrus Thomas and Sefolosha, and un-learning all of the humiliatingly bad habits they picked up in the offseason. That's how you save the season. Not by playing Ben Wallace 48 minutes or Adrian Griffin any minutes and leaving two of your three high draft picks to rot on the bench.

"But Butch, you said we could challenge you anytime we wanted to." "That's because I thought you never would."

by bullhockey on Dec 11, 2007 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
lots of people turning sour on TT.  Give the guy a chance...and by chance i mean more than 15 minutes every three games.  

If he doesnt pan out, 2006 draft for PAxson will be a disgrace...you have a number two pick and the 13th or 16th whatever it was pick and none of them can crack the rotation?  Thabo was picked ahead of brewer...really? Tyrus ahead of Aldridge? At this point even ahead of Rudy Gay sound ridiculous.  I guess he could have messed up more and picked morrison...but that owuld have been just dumb.  The 2006 nba draft is starting to produce some talent, unfortunately the bulls have none of it.  I would be willing trade both tyrus and thabo for brewer if this shit continues.

by Sambossanova on Dec 10, 2007 12:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

remember...
if brewer, aldridge or gay were on this team, they would be just about as productive and as advanced as tyrus thomas or sefalosha.  skiles wants veterans like AD, PJ Brown, Antonio Davis and Joe Smith on the floor absorbing minutes.

by leeac on Dec 10, 2007 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How can i remember
Something thats never happened, or been stated as fact....
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 10, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i stand corrected...
i should qualify my statement with "in my opinion"...

by leeac on Dec 10, 2007 7:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hehe
Sorry, i just finally wanted to be one of "those guys" who shut down people for small errors...i make many of those "small errors" so you can shut me down in the future.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 11, 2007 12:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no
problem, we all miss paxson jackson around here... hehe

by leeac on Dec 11, 2007 7:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree
I've hard lots of folks saying that if Brewer or Aldridge or whomever were here they'd never play but I don't really believe it.

Thomas and Thabo have been the exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself, regarding Skiles willingness to play young guys.  He played younger players a ton, and even down the stretch last year Tyrus played steady and increasing minutes.

We're only 20 games in and Noah seems to have settled into a fairly consistent role over the last few games.  I think that'll stay about where it is and slowly increase (of course there will be outliers here or there).

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2007 7:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus played very little in the playoffs
He didn't start playing against the Pistons until the Bulls were down 0-3.  Then hmmmmm, the Bulls win 2 in a row when Tyrus gets some burn.  Skiles doesn't like playing young players.  I'm not a Curry fan, but Eddie C. spent many 4th quarters on the bench as well as Tyson Chandler.  
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Dec 11, 2007 9:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're remembering incorrectly.
Tyrus played in every game in the playoffs last year.  Most of his stuff was token against the Heat, but he also looked pretty much out of his element in playoff intensity.  So it's a pretty sensible strategy to not put him out there for big minutes when he's looking out of control.  The Bulls did the right thing and got his feet wet.

Against the Pistons, Tyrus played 19, 22, and 9 minutes in the first three games.  That's hardly a "didn't start playing until they were down 0-3" situation.

by Sports2 on Dec 11, 2007 10:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Skiles doesn't play young players."
Hinrich's rookie season (Skiles' first as coach):  35 min/g (same as Jamal Crawford that year)
Ben Gordon's rookie season:  24 min/g
Luol Deng's rookie season:  27 min/g

Skiles will play young guys.  He just wants effort and results, and he's got a short leash.  

by arjoseph on Dec 11, 2007 12:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It was a little different though
when almost the entire team was "young guys."  Now most of them are 4-5 year veterans.

by Jaina on Dec 11, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
I think its more than that. First, you do want to play veterans more than young guys, its just a good idea. Young guys tend to make mistakes that veteran players dont, plus  you know what your veterans give you. In about 4 to 5 years you know what to expect from the veterans, the new guys can either suddenly suck, or be stars, and its so random its quite annoying to figure out. Thats all speaking generally because our vets havent really played like vets.

Aside from that, think about joakim noah, and tyrus thomas. None are quite the same as ben gordon luol deng and kirk hinrich, even duhon. In that i mean, you look at kirk hinrich, hes quite, a typical coaches son, and duhon just has suck up written all over him. Deng and Gordon are always in the gym, always working out that the whole facility knows of thier hard work.

Joakim is still a rookie, and really his only talent is untangibles, energy and height. He has the work ethic, but is just so random its hard to tell what he can do. Tyrus, well for whatever reason he hasnt shown skiles his hard work. So skiles must doubt his ability too. Its not like he just instinctively chooses not to play young guys, the first batch of young guys were your basic goody goody type, noah and thomas arent. I can see noah getting lots of time next year, thomas still has to get skiles to trust him as a player.

When you think about it, i think thats the beef that Chandler had with skiles. Skiles doesnt want to go over what you should be doing when your practicing. He tells you what he wants out of you in game time, and he expects you to be a pro athlete and get to the point where you can do what you are asked....this is all my opinion and observation, but i guess i really hate how some people see it so black and white.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2007 2:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was oversimplifying
but it IS easier to play a bunch of young guys when that's mostly what you have.  Also it is different, I'd say, for Tyson who was a high-schooler, and Tyrus, who had never left his home state (and I believe never his hometown before he went to LSU)... rather than Hinrich and Gordon who had been in college longer (and Noah as well), and though Deng left after one year he obviously has a different level of maturity than Tyrus.

You can't treat all players the same.  Tyrus was a project when they picked him up and they knew that.  Tyson too (but less excuse for him since he had been in the league a few years before Skiles took over).  But I feel that if Tyrus needs a little more direction, they should help him, the kid is 20 years old and if that's what they need to do to help him develop as a player, they should.  Not all people can just be left to their own devices.  I don't believe in like "special treatment" or something like that but when you pick a guy who clearly needs work you need to help him work.

by Jaina on Dec 13, 2007 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ah
but see, i think its easier to help a player grow when you are...um...not sucking as a team. Im sure if the bulls were 6 games above .500 then they would have no problem throwing in thabo and thomas and noah. But the bulls arent winning, like the indiana game showed, even when they are kicking ass and presenting a possible blowout, they end up getting blown out. I know thats more of another topic, however, in such a situation you still want to rely on the veterans to see you through, because you have a certain feel for them. The core might be sucking it up for the last 20 games or so, but they have spent the last three years working hard to get wins, and making a team of nobodies look like a team of potential somebodies.

Skiles has played  noah, tyrus, and thabo, so it is possible to assume that he has an idea of what they are capable of, both good and bad. Take tyrus, on the one hand he gives you energy and hustle, and not to mention blocks and dunks that most humans cannot immitate. And yet, at the same time he is also the kind of player that commits a foul right after commiting the same foul. He still looks lost on defense, misses assignments, rushes his offense...etc.

The bulls need to get wins right now, and skiles is trying to get that done, its his main job. I know alot of people question alot of his moves, as do i, but one i do seem to understand is why thomas isnt played as much. With the bulls still struggling, playing tyrus might make things better, or dig a deeper hole for the bulls. Such is the same with any rookie.Lets also not forget that the power forward spot also contains the likes of Joe Smith (who despite being injury prone, and lacks stamina seems to be skiles go to forward), Nocioni(who should really just play sf, but is more often playing pf), thomas and noah (both who are fairly young players still learning the game).

Noch and Smith have been fairly consistent in what they bring to the table, so its easier to use those two before the newbies, and then it comes down to which newbie would do a better job helping the team win. Noah i think just gets the go ahead due to him being tall and because he has often been talked about working hard during practice.

Thomas i think will get more playtime near the end of the season, you can see him getting better since skiles threw him in teh dog house, so long as he is mentally able to handle skiles, i think skiles' old fashioned hard nose way of teaching is actually effective. Its just a matter of how long until he mentally wears down some of his students, which is a theory on what has happened to the bulls core, especially guys like gordon and deng (who are considering themselves stars) and kirk hinrich (who always seemed to have a low self confidence level).

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2007 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's kinda funny
I didn't really mean for the conversation to spin off so much.  I'm not one of those people who thinks Tyrus needs to start and play like 30 min a game.  I was just stating that it was easier for the young guys to get burn when they WERE the team - now they are still the team, but now it is a team of 4-5 year vets.  That's fine!  In fact, it SHOULD be better.

And then all my next point was that not all players are as NBA ready as the core was.  I just didn't like the way that Thomas was cut so abruptly.  If he only earns 10 min a game, that's all he earns, but I just want to see him play a least a little.

by Jaina on Dec 13, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

soka
Me Maal :}
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 13, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's all good
I always enjoy decent conversation.  I appreciate when someone actually backs up their points, and also doesn't insult the person they're arguing/debating with.

by Jaina on Dec 13, 2007 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?
Aldridge was the 2nd pick, Tyrus was the 4th pick.  Remember?  The Bulls chose Aldridge, then traded him for Thomas, Kryapa, and $$$.  Brewer was the 7th pick this year, while Thabo was the 16th pick (not a lottery pick)last year.
Is it me or does Lebron walk like a duck?!

by GranvilleWaiters on Dec 11, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

screw your memory
look it up.

Brewer was the 14th pick, Bulls traded up to 13 to draft Sefolosha.

point being, both Aldridge and Brewer were available if the Bulls wanted them.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2007 9:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Corey v. Ronnie
I think the young fella got confused.
"A.B.C. Always be closing. ALWAYS BE CLOSING!" -Glengarry Glenross

by preverbal on Dec 11, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

which is fine
if he didn't have the same indignant tone with every one of his posts.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 11, 2007 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting questions raised...
... over at TrooHoop :

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-361/Your-Team-Any-Good-at-Developing-Players-.html?post=tru e

So where do the Bulls rank as regards player development ? Do they really have a system in place that ensures their young players will develop as much as they could/should ?

Sure doesn't feel that way right now, but maybe it's just that TT does not respond at all to the "coaching" put in place around him.

Would be interesting to have an insight into what the Bulls really do.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Dec 10, 2007 7:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Player Devlopment
When I think of teams that successfully develop players, I think of teams like Phoenix.  They develop one player at a time in an environment with experienced players.  It's hard for the rookie to make a mistake because everyone else is running the play correctly.  And if he makes a mistake, there are four vetrans to pick him up.  For example, Ronnie Brewer and now Davis in Boston.

by hlac on Dec 10, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

More about strengths
A rookie will get minutes if his strengths help address a team's weaknesses.

Ronnie Brewer sat a lot last season.  Utah had healthy vets at the SF.  What they didn't have was a healthy backup for Boozer.  They drafted him in Paul Milsapp.  They asked Milsapp to rebound and defend the paint, two things he excels at.  And the got this from a 2nd round pick.

Brewer plays more now because he's more familiar with the offense where Utah needs production from their SF.

Glen Davis does the same thing for Boston.  What can Davis do for you NOW?  He can take up space, use his weight to box out, and grab all the missed shots, and perhaps get a few putbacks.

With Tyrus you have to ask what can he do for you NOW that he excels at.  With Noah playing, and playing better, the only way I see T2 getting burn is if Noah is in foul trouble or injured.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting observation
Strengths and weaknesses.  The Bulls have three post players - Wallace, Tyrus and Noah who have the same strengths (boards, hustle and D) and the same weaknesses (no offense, post or otherwise).  The Bulls are desperate for low post O to free up shooters and to offer alternatives when the jump shots don't fall.  There is no low post player on the Bulls (forget your Deng dreams).  This falls on Pax for drafting/trading for the exact same player.  How's this for strengths and weaknesses - Tyson and Aldridge.  Tyson does the D and boards and LaMarcus does the low post scoring.  Together they average about 30 and 20.  Combined w/ Kirk, Deng and Iggy and you have a young dynamic team that can overcome their respective flaws.  Pax blew it.

by windycityhoops on Dec 10, 2007 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Get over it
The past is the past.  It's over.  I'm willing to admit that selecting Thomas over Aldridge was a mistake.  The question I'd rather focus on is what can we do now with our present pieces?

I think we end up moving Noah or Thomas.  Chicago wasn't the only team that wanted Tyrus.  Other clubs also wanted to select Thabo, but Chicago surprised everyone and took him at 13.

by NBA Observer on Dec 10, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not on board with either
I won't say taking Thomas is a mistake, and if I did I wouldn't be 'over' it, I'd want a new GM.

Really, punting two lottery picks and a full-boat of cap space in one offseason?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 10, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know about "punting"
Hindsight is always 20/20.  Each guy was a sought-after prospect at the time.  If anything, we can blame Pax for doing something that most GMs do (but he hadn't been doing in the past): succumbing to beguiling "upside potential" (especially in Thomas' case), without making sure there was a drive and a work ethic there beneath it (and it might be too soon to tell on that one, too).  

Also: we all say he should have drafted Aldridge to fit our need, but all anyone was saying that draft was that we needed a bigger backcourt, and that we needed to cover for Ben Gordon's lack of defense.  Thabo was that "needs" guy.  Look how that turned out.  I would always rather have talent over needs.

by arjoseph on Dec 10, 2007 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for the string post,
but I meant to add that the keys to "talent" for me are not vertical or wingspan; rather, they are drive, leadership, and skills.

by arjoseph on Dec 10, 2007 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too soon to give up on Tyrus
That logic follows with Noah then, as well. I agree with you, if I was another team I'd be after those three (and Lu).

Are you saying it's time to "move" one of these recent picks for the best return the Bulls can get? Please give a trade proposal that gets CHI past BOS.

If they continue to lose more than win, I'd rather lose BG, Kirk, and BBen (Skiles too?) and start over with a true young core (that hit their prime when Boston's 3 are done). In fact that might be a blessing compared to a future of 1st and 2nd round exits.

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
But...  the Bulls have been duped AGAIN by "unlimited potential".  You think they would have learned their lesson after the Brand Tyson debacle.  Instead, they take Stromile Swift Part 2 over someone who fits their "yes sir, big program mold" (Aldridge).  The NBA is all about the talent.  The Bulls had two seven footers and traded them for an undersized, over the hill center, a Stromile Swift clone and a beanpole tall rookie who can't shoot.  The Bulls took 30/20 of low post production and traded it for barely a double double. And while the Boston planning is correct, everyone is overlooking the Magic.  We are going to have to deal w/ Dwight Howard for the next decade at least.  We need to stockpile tradeable assets to make a run at LeBron.  Modulate your expectations and ditch all this current Eastern finals nonsense. We simply don't have the right players to compete right now.

by windycityhoops on Dec 10, 2007 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well
what I mean about it's too early is that you can't call TT Stromile yet. But there's a parallel, isn't there? Swift, though taller, played for a similar (too-?) demanding defensive coach. I'd bet anything that Tyrus isn't gonna be a bust, but I didn't watch Stro Swift as closely, maybe you did? I am afraid his benching could be detrimental, though. Hopefully, it doesn't contribute to his becoming the clone you say he is. He looked fine (improved) in the early games; then not so after the "disciplining".

I didn't forget the Magic, but because I've seen PHX beat them twice (their only quality wins, save HOU (and CLE?), they don't seem as "real" to me yet. But they should get there. Rashard and Hedo are easier to deal with than Allen and Pierce, but Howard will only become a worse problem for all. Another reason to blow it up? I'd love to add LBJ to Deng, Noah, Tyrus and Gray. To me, this poor start means this team will never win a Conference Finals (barring lucky breaks) with both Wallace and the small guards) I guess we'd disagree on what to keep and what to lose?

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 7:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace and small guards thought
is right on.  A useless low post player (actually two of them)and small guards is obviously not working - too easy to defend.  I don't think we're too far off on the pieces to ditch.  I'd plan to stockpile "talent" for when LBJ comes available.  Wade is also up at the same time.  I think Ben's contract is up close to that so he can be dealt as an expiring contract.  For me, Gordo was a huge mistake - there's only one starting 6 foot sg in the league and he plays for Denver.  Pax's plan to draft players has failed - time to move on.  People need to be thinking 2-3 years from now.  

by windycityhoops on Dec 10, 2007 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You need to stop drinking the bong water.
Planning ahead to sign possible free agents hardly ever works.  

by upther on Dec 11, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus
is young...  He will make mistakes.  He hasn't been given a chance to make up for his mistakes.  He misses one assignment and doesn't see any playing time again.  Did he really miss that many assignments in the 4-6 minutes he last played.  It's unfair to compare him to LaMarcus considering the ammount of playing time.  Tyrus hasn't been given a chance to earn playing time.  Skiles was reckless when he took away his starting job and gave it to Noc, who is better coming off the bench...

by tyrus4prez on Dec 10, 2007 4:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

even more frustrating
is Skiles admitting verbally, or with minutes, that he can't get Thomas to play right. That's more than one person's fault.
Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 10, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree
I feel like he hasn't been given the opportunity to make up for his mistakes.

I also think the whole thing is strange.  Thomas is a PF, Noah the (for now) backup C.  There should be minutes (in theory) for both.  Another mismanagement by Skiles right now is playing his starts for 40 minutes a game (minus Smith).  That will catch up to everyone (especially BB) if he keeps that up.  Noah should be getting the 12 or however many minutes Ben sits, and Thomas should get some time behind Smith and Noc at PF (since Noc splits time at SF).  Not too hard, huh?

by Jaina on Dec 10, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

er
starters not starts.

by Jaina on Dec 10, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes
I thought it was just me, but you're correct - this isn't so hard.  

by windycityhoops on Dec 10, 2007 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, Skiles
7-8 man rotation is him pressing for wins just like in playoffs vs DET. It's not end of season, so legs aren't the issue. But you have to wonder if the tightness of the coach transfers to the players. The poor shooting sure makes it seem so.

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I put this on the other thread
but am computer retard, so:

Kirk 34, BG 34, Du 10, Sefo 18, Lu 35, TT 25, Noc 24, BBen 32, Noah 18, JoeS 10.

Maybe I should make sig?

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
Thomas is, in fact, a 2 or 3, which exacerbates the log jam at those positions and complicates finding a 4,

by hlac on Dec 10, 2007 9:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Could be
I think he's probably not a 2, but he could definitely turn out to be a 3.  But right now as it stands he is playing the 4 and given the current lineup I don't see why he couldn't get minutes there.

by Jaina on Dec 10, 2007 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point, I think priority #1 is winning
We need to make sure we get into the playoffs.  

Depending, of course, on adjustments for matchups and hot hands, here's how I see the minutes breaking down well (on average, based on how people are playing right now):

PG:  Kirk 22 min. + Duhon 26 min.
SG:  Gordon 20 min. (until he earns more, per game basis) + Kirk 8 min. + Deng 8 min. + Thabo 12 min.
SF:  Deng 30 min. + Noc 15 min. + TT 3 min.
PF:  Smith 20 min. + Noc 20 min. + TT 8 min.
C: Big Ben 28 min. + Noah 20 min.

Ideally, I'd like to see something like:
Kirk 35, Duhon 15, Gordon 35, Thabo 11, Deng 35, Noc 25, TT 22, Noah 21, Big Ben 30, Smith 20.  But that's only if we're winning.  Whatever gets us to winning is the true ideal.

by arjoseph on Dec 10, 2007 7:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're tough on the Bens!
especially Gordon. Can't say it's undeserved though. Winning is the thing, but I think of the OP, a poor (?) season ticket-er who is left watching unathletic, mid-level NBAers getting the PT over the entertaining, promising youth. And they're still not winning, are they?

by marionette on Dec 10, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

apparently
Aldrige does a pretty good Nocioni impression too

by ScottieCartwright on Dec 11, 2007 8:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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