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Open Game Thread #27: Bulls vs. Milwaukee Bucks

[Thanks to bullshooter for today's game preview. -Matt]

The first day of the rest of their lives

The Milwaukee Bucks come to town for the first game of the Jim Boylan era.   Boylan's official announcement as the permanent interim coach, at least for the rest of the season, marks the end of a clash in philosophies between GM John Paxson and previous head coach Scott Skiles.  Over  the last several season Paxson has been remaking the team through the drafting of above-average, but not necessarily great players and a few key free agent signings.  With a roster than now includes at least 11 players with significant talent or potential and Skiles steadfastly refusing to play several of them consistently, a change was inevitable.  This was especially true when the Bulls failed to recover from their usual slow start (2-10 record, currently 9-16).  Paxson has mentioned his goal may be to try and package several of his stockpiled "good" players for one truly great "star" from a failing team looking to rebuild.  Only time will tell, and in order to maximize that chance, Paxson needs his players to play and demonstrate their talents, not languish on the bench behind more proven but under-performing veterans.

However, another overarching Paxson tenet for this Bulls organization has been accountability.  So it would seem to be somewhat hypocritical for Paxson to force the next coach to play the promising youngsters who haven't necessarily shown they can consistently produce at the expense of more consistent veterans if the stated goal of making the playoffs is truly the focus of this team.  And that sentiment was in evidence last game against the spurs when even in a blowout youngsters Noah, Thomas and Sefolosha didn't get any significant minutes.  The next several games under Boylan, of whom Paxson is confident "Jim [Boylan] is his own person." should demonstrate whether the most important goal is changing the rotation, or winning.  Perhaps it can be both.  

Boylan's benching of Ben Gordon for Chris Duhon is the first of perhaps several moves.  While in a contract year, Duhon is playing somewhat better early this season compared to last.  However, the Duhon/Hinrich backcourt has been shown to be inferior to the Hinrich/Gordon version.  Is this an attempt to insprire BG to return to his former levels?  Are the Bulls attempting to showcase Duhon?  Have the Bulls soured on Gordon to the point they are already trying to deal him quickly?  BG provided no hints today and  Hinrich is clearly not the answer at the off guard and this move only stunts and delays his development at the point.  Perhaps this move was made with the later move of putting Sefolosha into the rotation and starting lineup in the near future.  Who knows, but it certainly doesn't look like a stable situation.

Overall, expectations should be for a gradual change in minutes for various players.  Ben Wallace, another candidate for benching based on his inconsistent play early this season, would figure to be a much harder sell for coming off of the bench.  In fact, expect an early hook, ala Shaq as opposed to an actual benching.  Both Joakim Noah and Aaron Gray have shown glimpses this year and should start to eat into Wallace's minutes.  Likewise, the enigmatic Tyrus Thomas should start to see more of Joe Smith's minutes, even with Smith proving to be a solid and capable 4.

Tonights opponent, the Milwaukee Bucks, come into town just ahead of the Bulls in the Central Divison standings.  The Bucks have lost seven straight on the road this season and 10 and of their last 12 at the United Center.  They were blownout in Denver 125-105 Wednesday night and are 4-12 over their last 16.  In their previous matchup this season, the Bulls lost 78-72.  The Bucks come armed with several talented big men in Andrew Bogut, the latest Chinese sensation Yi Jianlian, and Charlie Villaneuva, not to mention all-star sharpshooter Michael Redd.  The Bucks will provide an excellent test for Bulls and the Bucks' big men should provide many excellent opportunities to play all of the Bulls bigs.  The Bucks might also be just what BG needs to get back on track based on his 48 point shootout with Michael Redd last year.

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Yi torched the Bobcats too
Can we play Atlanta and Charlotte every night?

by NBA Observer on Dec 28, 2007 2:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think BG
sounds like he is handling this well. I saw a little clip of him talking about his benching on CSN and he didn't seem any different.

I'm not expecting any great imrovements tonight even if Jim says he's his own person. It will take a few games to try and figure out how to get this team to work together. Hopefully Jim gets that done.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 4:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ben Gordon
Taking it well, maybe...but that doesnt mean he likes it at all. We are lucky, we dont have any big egos or "me first" guys on this team (except for the one that wears a head band), Ben gordon probably hates being on the bench, but at the same time he really wants to win and play. He could make a scene, but that only makes him look like a load to any team wanting to sign him this off season. He is doing the smart thing, shut up and play, show them what u can do, then get ure big contract.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 28, 2007 5:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a critical game emotionally
We must win this game or we risk falling emotionally apart.  A win doesn't guarantee we still won't fall apart but a loss and the Boylan era may be a very painful one.  Even a win where we play lousy is better than a loss where we looked good.  Milwaukee won't be a pushover.  The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports the Bucks had a great practice and are desperate for a win.  After being blown out by NO they will not be a pushover tonight.  We must win!

by chgobr on Dec 28, 2007 5:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Skiles-Bulls saga
Was Milwaukee a first team we played some years ago with newly hired coach ?

by runio on Dec 28, 2007 6:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's working great for me, but might have expired
Here you go. Link
"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Dec 28, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
didn't work for me :-(
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 8:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Try this too.
My P2P forum

I usually goto the last page, and go back from that. The links in the beginning pages are usually expired

"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Dec 28, 2007 8:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nice site, thanks
but can't get the bulls links to work, got the spurs though.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

finally got one
thanks
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 9:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No problem man
"My jumper's so smooth it will seduce your girlfriend." -1958ChiTown

by NittanyBull on Dec 29, 2007 1:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bullsfaninla
good thing we had duhon in there to not shoot that

by bullsfaninla on Dec 28, 2007 7:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Only good thing bout Duhon
in the line up is that Deng looks like he's gonna be more assertive

by Option27 on Dec 28, 2007 7:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

he definitely plays the most
aggressive point for the bulls

by HerAirness on Dec 28, 2007 7:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually love it
I think with Ben out there, it kind of took the mentality outta him a bit. But now he knows he's the man and he's acting like it

by Option27 on Dec 28, 2007 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace looked active
lots of tips, 3 boards, 2 assists, just try not to look at the new orleans box score where chandler has 17 and 17...

by bullsfaninla on Dec 28, 2007 8:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's so quiet in UC
bc we're down by 4
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 8:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You know what?
I like how Gray is playing.Pretty active.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 8:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

TT didn't have a good stretch :-(
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 8:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

at least boylan
let him try to play it out without yanking him back to the bench a nano second after a questionable play

by HerAirness on Dec 28, 2007 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Typical "eastern conference" game
If you're not a fan of playing teams,you won't watch it for a minute.
But we need to win anyway...
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 8:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

They did look
like they were more active in the first half. Lu played very well and BB acted alive. Gray did well while he was in.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 8:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Comcast showed some stats
proving that Gordon had more points coming off the bench.And he looks pretty comfortable with his
sixth men role.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good. I
hope he does well.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 8:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This game become
uglyer while we down by 10.And Bucks are not playing very good basketball.
Hinrich lost,Deng is only playing well.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

how about
switching it up and putting thabo on redd?  oops. I said the T word

by Sambossanova on Dec 28, 2007 9:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gray!
Just swept off the screen of the bucks!
He's playing good(for second round pick).
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The most exciting thing
is that he is actually playing and not watching from the bench.  Not even a sniff of Noah or Sefo.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 9:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And only those few early minutes of Tyrus.
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 28, 2007 9:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So far
I'm happy not seeing Griffin minutes:-).
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well its good we're playing
our 2nd round pick before our 2nd pick (thomas), 9th pick (noah) and 13? (thabo). hey duhon's a 2nd rounder too, maybe paxson needs to start trading down the draft!

by bullsfaninla on Dec 28, 2007 9:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm
Might be bc he is a 7-foot center?
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be like
putting Tyrus in for Hinrich because he is so awesome and ranked so high.  Gray is just a different build than all the others.  And actual center.  If you want someone of Gray's build in there you wouldn't put in someone not of that build just because he was ranked higher at one point.  Thomas was not himself tonight anyway. He looked off.  Besides, if Thomas was "on" tonight I'd probably want Gray making inside passes to him. He needed someone who could catch the ball and finish down there. Noah probably deserved some playing time, but they were not making a ton of rotations (no Griffin, thank God) so it didn't happen.

I think tonight the big time hog was Noc.  Give Thomas some Noc time.  No need to bring Gray in on it if you look at it that way.

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 12:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why can't they atleast try a line up of like
BG
Deng
Tyrus
Noah
Gray

or

BG
Sefo
Deng
Tyrus
Noah

the size would give some teams fits.

by Steven47 on Dec 29, 2007 1:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noc was
horrid last night. He has been like that the last couple of games.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As ussuall Ben Gordon
controlling last possesion 7 sec,.6.5...and...miss.Ugh!
If they don't turn this game over against poor Bucks...I don't know...
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Deng is Trully leader today
I hope he can do this on regular basis.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

how many shots
does nocioni have to miss?

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 9:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

What like mot about this game
is that we go to the free throw line ALOT!
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Krystoviak is GONE!
Technical for complaining!
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I thought he was going
To punch that obnoxious fan on his way out!

by bleargh on Dec 28, 2007 9:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From my vantage point
he kicked a chair on the way out.  Or kicked something else.  I hope it wasn't a person.  

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 12:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude Larry K was about to punch some kid who was
clapping by his ear. He stared down some little dude I was like no way is he going to fight a kid.

by Steven47 on Dec 29, 2007 1:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We were all pretty rude actually...
Probably typical of a live crowd.  Normally I would not cheer someone else's misfortune like that, but I exploded like the rest of the thousands of people and cheered him off the court. Wouldn't be surprised if people near the exit there were not equally rude.

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 1:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's all right
We just used to get calls aginst us all the time.
Nothing wrong when hosting is getting some nice calls.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
but it's real hard to even out the bad calls as opposed to just calling the game the right way.  Redd shuffled his feet on the Ben Wallace foul and Kirk didn't move on the next call.  And the officials should have gotten together a called a jump ball when kirk hit the ball out.  The officiating has been atrocious.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There was 101 old lady
wishing Bulls get 101 points.Noce just made 101-st.Happy birthday!
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 9:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

She was really cute!
She was out there long before the game and Hinrich and Gray (and maybe Deng?) stopped over during their shotting practice to get their picture with her and sign stuff.  They showed her on the score board and we all cheered for her and she was wheeled to the center court for pictures too.  I wish that when I am old someone would have the sense to wheel me to a game (or anywhere else with perks).  Probably the only time I'll get court side seats.  :)

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 12:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Krystowiak
had every reason to fly off the handle on that bad call on the Hinrich loose ball.

by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2007 9:57 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

good win
even though it was against the Bucks.  They looked a lot more like last year's team.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 9:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I thought the Bucks played well.
We looked more like last year than almost any game I can think of.

by chgobr on Dec 28, 2007 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Deng carried his team today.
Gordon played well off the bench.Gray will see his
minutes.Hinrich made 2 three pointers and saved his ass for today doing that.Noc...you never know what to expect from him.
Overall:it's good to win.
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 10:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Still
a little disappointed in the lack of playing time for TT and Noah, but at least there were some positives tonight.  I still think we should bench Hinrich, start Noc at the 3 and move Deng to the 2.

by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2007 10:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Kirk was 1 ast from a double double
you guys are nuts.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 10:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was about to mention that too
I thought Kirk played fine today and thought Noc was killing us

by Option27 on Dec 28, 2007 10:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich played well!
His defense that caused the turnover(that wasn't really a turnover) was critical.

by chgobr on Dec 28, 2007 10:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even aside from that
Hinrich played well extremely well (no early foul trouble), especially that shut down job he did in the first quarter which carried to most of the second. He made some bad passes, and was once again at the butt of a bad break-away play, but it was nice to see him try to be more aggresive on offense.

Jimmy Boy's plan maybe? Have hinrich play the two so he can find his shot or get aggresive on offense...get that scorers mentality a bit. It seemed to work, he got open more, and he took his shots with more confidence it seemed. Nice to watch him shoot and not cringe. Everyone played great, surprised no noah, but i guess its a matter of time only.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 28, 2007 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To barely top the 2:1 assist to turnover ratio
I don't think that is impressive by any stretch of the imagination.

by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2007 10:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

his last TO
was that airball he shot which should have just been a missed field goal.  so his ast:to should have been 3:1.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 28, 2007 10:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's played pretty well for most of the month
It seems like the bad November gave the Kirk haters enough ammo to last all season, no matter what he does now.
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 28, 2007 10:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see Kirk play well
but a quick look around the league will show that the list of guards with worse assist to turnover ratios than Hinrich's paltry 2.1 include AI, Wade, Agent 0, TMac and Kobe, though the vast majority of guards' ratios are way better.  And what do the previously mentioned guys have in common?  They are scorers!

by MarketMaker on Dec 28, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the trouble with such a bad November
It's going to take a while for the season-long stats to come up as bad as Kirk played early.  Hell, his November A/TO ratio 1.78 and he shot .331, which is downright hideous.

However, if you consider his December splits, you can see how much better he's played of late - 2.54 A/TO and .423 fg%.  Still not spectacular, but a huge difference from looking at the overall stats and far more reflective of how he's played lately.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 28, 2007 10:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They are
out in full force too.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 10:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wanted to see Noah...
Since I was there at the game for probably the only time this season.  So that was disappointing.  On the other hand, Thomas seemed pretty lost and not his usual self.  Probably something he could have worked through, but I guess not tonight.  I'll have to watch a tape of it later since I was in the nose bleed section, but he did seem off his normal game of aggressively going at the basket.

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 12:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And....
Jim Boylan is better than Pete Myers :-)!
"RUN,TYRUS,RUN!!!"-Formerly Chicago Bulls coach S.Skiles

by Azabullsfan on Dec 28, 2007 10:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nocioni
was pretty wretched tonight.  2/12 in 15 minutes: at that point you're hurting your team.  Boylan needs to tell the man to rein it in.

But overall very encouraging!  Our big 3 played well, and getting 10 and 6 from gray, in only 14 minutes, is a big boost.  Never thought he would be playing more than Noah - or playing at all for that matter.

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

on the flip side, though,
I thought noc was more active on defense than I've seen him for a long long time

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 10:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

although I do think TT
could have been just as active on defense and maybe not as awful on offense

by alec on Dec 28, 2007 10:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If by "active"
you mean running around like the proverbial headless chicken and sagging off of his defensive assignments for no apparent reason, then yes, I agree.

by ChrisRobin on Dec 29, 2007 6:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the main thing he was doing better
than he has been recently was staying close enough to his perimeter defensive assignments to get back to them and force them to give up the ball rather than hoist up uncontested shot after uncontested shot.

by alec on Dec 29, 2007 6:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kudus to Boylan
for moving Deng onto Redd toward the end.  It had mixed results, but I loved that we were mixing it up.  If we aren't going to use Sefo, then Deng might be an option as the big guard.  And for whatever reason it seemed like Luol played more at that position tonight.  Was that just my imagination?  

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 10:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

They played tonight
like I remember them playing last year. They started their come back with Gray in there. I don't know what to think about TT. He was -9 for the night.

Ben Wallace had a great game. I wish he would play like that every night. Maybe he will now. Maybe BG should have come off the bench earlier in the season. Kirk did well too tonight. Deng needs to play like this every game. Noch had a few shots fall for him tonight but he still drives me crazy.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 10:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

We
We barely beat a shitty Milwaukee team. Yay!

Gordon playing better = handling the ball more. Does not = coming off the bench.

Gordon's going to save the Duhon/Hinrich backcourt in the next several games as it's a decent schedule, but when it gets back to the better teams, it's going to look awful. Just like last year.

by nas on Dec 28, 2007 10:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ugh
Seriuosly how many minutes did duhon play anyway? Jimmy Boy seems to have some sort of plan, which is probably a step up from skiles rotation. Duhon starting i think is just to wear down defense, give hinrich a chance to take some shots, and sort of test the waters before the real treat. Kendall Gill put it best, gordon was playing with a chip on his shoulder, and it was good. He wants to get back to that starting spot, so as long as he is not starting, he will play extra hard, plus coming off the bench he is expected to do the thing he excels at..score. Its not like skiles, who would throw duhon in for the entire first and third quarter, and just go to ben gordon to bail him out. Gordon got the second most amount of play time, and he wont be yanked for "stupid" mistakes. This maybe the same line up as the ol duhon hinrich backcourt, but it seems theres a new reason behind it.
im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 28, 2007 10:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tyrus will be stuck on the bench if he plays
the way he did tonight.

He was abused by Villanueva.

The strategy teams are using against Tyrus is becoming clear. Whenever he enters the game, they try to match him up with a perimeter oriented big with three point shooting skills.  The player typically hovers at the three point line for most of the possession, or dives from one part of the three point line, through screens, to another part of the three point arc.  The tactic keeps Tyrus out of the lane, where he is most effective defensively.  When he does sag off his player to provide help defense on drives or to attempt blocks, the ball gets kicked out to his man for a three.  Also, even when he doesn't sag off, Tyrus often gets lost in traffic and let's his man get free for a three pointer. He's had the exact same problem with Posey, Bonner, and now Villanueva.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Dec 28, 2007 10:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bulls got very lucky tonight
Michael Redd usually doesn't miss 5 free throws in a game, and coaches usually aren't dumb enough to get themselves thrown out of a close game with a minute to go.

by Big D on Dec 28, 2007 11:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bulls got lucky?
How many times can you get bailed out by the ref on 10 hundred pump fakes?

Anyways these kinda wins confuse me. Do I invest hope again only to be crushed or just see it as a win against a bad team. I'll go with a win against a bad team.

This team really needs to make some personel moves to try to aquire an NBA shooting guard with Sefolosha's lack of offensive progression.  

I mean could you imagin them with a legit 2 and the BG off the bench?

by Steven47 on Dec 28, 2007 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just got back from the game.
I had some crap 300 level seating, but it actually wasn't a terrible angle if you can fight off the vertigo.  

I was there for a high school game played before and also got tickets for the real game.  They let us sit in the 100s for a while after the high school game and I was there from about 4pm to 5:30 and got to see some players shoot around.  Tyrus and Curry were first out working on their shots with coaches at around 4pm.  Curry's shot looked good, but no one was guarding him so who can tell.  Soon after they were out Hinrich came out as well and shot around.  His shot looked pretty good.  Some time after that Noc came out and stayed for quite awhile.  Curry and Tyrus left and that left Hinrich and Noc there for when Gray showed up.  He practiced some shots from the top of the key, post up moves, and free throws.  He was really nice and signed one of the high school kid's shirt (after the promised meeting with the players in the locker room did not happen).  Hinrich left and Deng came out to join Noc and Gray.  

I think Noc spent the most time out there total.  I get blurry at that point, but Noah came out sometime before 5:30 but then we all got kicked out since those were not our real seats.  By the time I got to our real seats most of the guys were out there.  Wallace was actually sinking some threes.  I got some pictures but I doubt any turned out well.  Let me know if any one is actually interested in seeing them.

The game itself was really fun actually.  I wanted to see Noah and wanted more of Thomas, but Thomas seemed lost out there.  One point it seemed like he had a clear path for a slam but instead he made a terrible pass back out and picked up a foul.  Never quite had his head in it.  Deng looked amazingly good and Gordon's dribbling looks less crazy in real life than on tv.  At least he appeared to be mostly in control tonight.  Gray also appeared pretty good.  He got some rookie calls and had good ideas that just didn't connect (certain passes that looked good...but ended up blah).  What I really noticed was how when Wallace was out there instead no one would really guard him and would double Deng or Gordon making it really hard on them.  When Gray was out there the spacing seemed better and they actually guarded him and that gave our guards some breathing room.  I would have loved to have seen Noah out there since I think Noah's offense is better than Wallace and would have commanded some attention under there, but I guess seeing him before the game will be all I get.

I am taping the replay tonight so I can catch some stuff I missed.  Like the coach getting kicked out.  It seemed like it took that coach a second to get all the way across the court because one second I was picking some popcorn off my shirt and the next he was jawing with the refs and thrown out.  And he kicked a chair on the way out. The crowed went pretty wild.  As well as when whathisname fouled out.  

Finally, those stupid 3-point fouls at the end of the game were crap.  Wallace was a so-so since he did leave his feet once (or twice), but Hinrich's was not a foul.  The player totally jumped sideways into him and Hinrich did not leave his feet or lean in or anything.  The end of the game took forever with all those fouls.

by cranscape on Dec 29, 2007 12:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Looks oddly familiar to me
I'll admit, I wasn't able to watch the game, but looking at the boxscore it appears not much will change rotation wise.  While a win is nice, even over a bad team, I have a very hard time building any excitement over this.  I hate to be pessimistic, but I see no reason for optimism if Noah can't even get off the bench.

by snley on Dec 29, 2007 1:19 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I agree this team
doesn't mesh together well. Kirk and Wallace don't work for me anymore. I would rather see the Bulls with Sam Cassell at the point than Kirk now.

by Steven47 on Dec 29, 2007 1:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hustle!
What I saw from tonights game was a team begining to hustle again. This is the element that has been missing, diving your million dollar ass on the floor to get a loose ball, beating your opponent to the position for a rebound. These are some of the few things that will buy you some time as a player and as a team until you get your shooting stroke back. If Boylan gets them to do this look for things to turn around.

by A Train Afro 53 on Dec 29, 2007 2:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I saw this too.
Isn't it funny how people see the same game so differently? I saw smiles out there too. Hadn't seen many of those earlier in the season.

Look at it this way - It's a new beginning with Boylan. The win is a start.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This can't be good
From the Tribune today

"We may have to tighten up the rotation," Boylan said. "That doesn't mean anybody is buried or in the doghouse. I just believe some of our guys have had trouble finding a rhythm."

He was referring to Noah, Sefolosha and Thomas' minutes.

I don't think that bodes too well for developing the youngsters.

by Option27 on Dec 29, 2007 10:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't you
think Pax told him he had to win games? I like TT a lot but last night like cranscape said he looked lost out there. He's in his second year and shouldn't he know this system by now? There was no way he was going to help them last night.

Everyone bitched that Skiles didn't have a set rotation and Boylan says he will have one. Do you call it a season and just work on developing the young guys or do you do what it takes to win games?

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

THomas hasn't looked lost every game.
How does he learn the system sitting on the bench? Is it worth three or five more wins this year (if even that) to stunt his development. It's a LOT more often that a player gets better while playing than he does while sitting.

While it's cliche, winning isn't everything.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um, I didn't
say he looked lost in every game did I? I said last night. He needs to make the most of the playing time given him.

The point I was making was that in order to develop the young guys you are going to have to put up with losses. Some in here want the rookies to play but don't want to lose. I wasn't saying to not play them.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thing is
the lineups with duhon, veteran power forwards, gritty veterans, etc. have never been as successful as playing the young guys, and playing hinrich and gordon together. i'd rather see fewer losses from young players making mistakes than more losses from vets who aren't very good.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 29, 2007 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thing is
it's not our call to make.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 1:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
Give Thomas 30 minutes a game, and you'll have many, many more positive games (w/ more positivity, too!!!) than for someone like Joe Smith.

For some reason, people would rather watch someone sucking by getting out-rebounded or missing 10-ft jumpers than they would watching someone get beat because he looks confused.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am a huge Tyrus fan, but he played
very poorly last night. He had one nice assist to a cutting Gray, but that was about all. The rest of his play was negative. He made a poor pass in the lane that resulted in a turnover. He allowed Villanueva to take open threes. He got beat once on a drive by Villanueva. He got beat once on a post move by Villanueva. His defense was generally horrendous.
"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Dec 29, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He played 4 friggin' minutes!!!!
All players have horrendous 4-minute stretches. Some players might start bad and suck the whole game. However, most players will get out of it if given time. Do all players who start out hot always end up hot the whole game?

Of course, if every time Tyrus sucks he gets yanked, he's going to have a "whole" bad game. It seems pretty likely, though, that given 30 minutes every night, he'll have much fewer bad games.

I'd think it'd be obvious to someone as "smart" as you, how is Thomas supposed to learn how to defend someone like Villanueva if he's not playing?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 29, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Skiles had pressure to develop players
who weren't good enough at this point to win games.

by hhi on Dec 29, 2007 11:47 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Skiles?
What does this game tell us about why Skiles was fired?  I assumed it was more than the record since he and Pax seemed so close.  Also assumed that it was probably due to his failure to give consistent minutes to the young guys so they could develop.  Now I'm totally confused.  The only difference in this from a Skiles game was starting Duhon.

by El Toro de Goro on Dec 29, 2007 11:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gail Fisher
who has covered the Bulls for CSN said the other night that she knows Skiles and Pax had some conflicts this season. She didn't go into details but since she has been around the team I'm sure she does see things that the rest of us don't.

I saw guys play with some enthusiasm and smiles last night. I didn't see much of that with Skiles as the coach. They looked different last night. They didn't give up when they got behind by ten points. It's a start in the right direction.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 29, 2007 12:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said!
They were different last night.  I thought they not only had more energy but they went to the rim more than settle for their predictable jump-shots. I think starting Du helped Hinrich.  He played great defense and hit key shots.  I thought the Bucks played with the intensity of a desperate team.  They were not an easy team to beat last night.  Despite the good vibes this is still only one game.  The game tomorrow against the Knicks is critical.  We have not won two in a row in quite awhile.

by chgobr on Dec 29, 2007 12:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One two many crazy moves
In my opinion Skiles lost this team and Paxson in the playoffs last year when he didn't make key substitutions and let the starting five flounder against Detroit. As I remember it his post game excuse was something like "I thought they deserved a chance to win the game". In actually it appeared that he gave up and was punishing the starters for not playing well. I remember hearing that Pax was very upset after that game. In my opinion, Pax went into this season with a "short leash attitude"

by Incognito on Dec 29, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who wants to play hard when guys are getting
minutes because the GM and owner said play 'em?

Notice last night: TT 4 minutes, Noah and Sefo no minutes.  Duhon was apparently playing well and deserved more.  Gordon may have been in a funk because he didn't get the $$ he wanted.  The guard play is what really was below a year ago.

by hhi on Dec 29, 2007 12:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Gordon gets a wake up call
= 6th man and responds.

by hhi on Dec 29, 2007 12:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Korver got traded to Utah for Giricek
There goes Matt's trade proposal

I think the Bulls could have used someone like Korver but what do I know, I'm just a pissed off fan.

by Option27 on Dec 29, 2007 2:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

bulls need
MORE jump shooters. Just a whole squad of em.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 29, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll just say this
would you rather have Griffin and Duhon or someone that actually is a legit three point threat.

Korver doesn't go through major slumps either

by Option27 on Dec 29, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yup
I'm not saying the Bulls should have traded for Korver, but Pax should have replaced Pike and Pargo (not really a 3 point shooter) with another 3 point shooting scrub. The 3 guard lineup would have been more palatable, and we'd have more ammo for the the never ending Ben Gordon should start conflict.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 29, 2007 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
It's not like I was in a hot pursuit of Korver but I'm just saying if he was out there, trade a couple of scrubs we don't play for the man

by Option27 on Dec 29, 2007 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sixers didn't want scrubs
They wanted the draft pick that they got from Utah.  Given the Bulls record right now, they probably shouldn't be trading their pick.

by Big D on Dec 29, 2007 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Expiring contracts too
I guess Giricek's contract is up after this year, so maybe they'd have wanted Duhon, but Utah still would have had the better offer with the first round pick thrown in.

by Big D on Dec 29, 2007 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon and a 2nd round pick
is better than Giricek and a first rounder, if you ask me

by Option27 on Dec 29, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it doesn't work
Duhon's salary isn't enough. The Bulls would have had to throw in another player, and Philly made the trade for cap relief. A-Drain's lock down defense and veteran leadership wouldn't have sweetened the deal. Plus Korver is signed through 2011. Yuck.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 29, 2007 3:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

although
Veektor (rfa this summer) and Duhon would have made it work. Too bad Duhon was moved to the starting lineup, and not the end of the bench.
Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 29, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No game thread
for the game today?
Win, just win.

by sue369 on Dec 30, 2007 10:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

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