Jim Boylan officially named new coach (UPDATE: Gordon benched)

I'm not mad

No reason to rush into a permanent replacement just yet since the Bulls ain't going no where too fast this year.

I think Pax must have told Jim to play the youngsters as well. He seems pretty hardcore on their playing time.

by Option27 on Dec 27, 2007 2:13 PM CST reply actions

RIP

to the Pete Myers era.

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 27, 2007 2:15 PM CST reply actions

Would it be possible to re-post the

link to the story that come out yesterday about why it would be good for Boylan's career, both now and in the future, to play the young guys? It was a good article, and now that Boylan's actually gotten the job it might be worthwhile to reread it. Thanks to anyone who remembers where it is.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 2:18 PM CST reply actions

this one?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/In-the-interim-the-Bulls-have-a-lot-to-think-ab?ur n=nba,59183

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions

Yes. That's the one. Thanks.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 2:21 PM CST up reply actions

I hope we see some better play tomorrow and win.

We need a win in the worst way. I'm hoping a win makes us less tense and we start to play our game again. I am also hoping Boylan's rotations are better than Meyers. If not, that scream you hear will be me.

by chgobr on Dec 27, 2007 2:20 PM CST reply actions

Time will tell.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 27, 2007 2:39 PM CST reply actions

The next ten game will go a long way towards

determining the course of this season:

Fri 28 vs Milwaukee
Sun 30 @ New York
Mon 31 vs Orlando
Wed 02 @ Charlotte
Thu 03 vs Portland
Sat 05 vs Sacramento
Tue 08 vs New York
Fri 11 @ Philadelphia
Sun 13 @ Atlanta
Tue 15 @ Orlando

The schedule will not get any easier than this stretch. With the exception of Orlando, all of the Bulls' opponents are emminently beatable. There is no excuse for failing to go 8-2 over the next ten games.

If the Bulls don't take advantage of this lull in their schedule, there is little to no chance they will make the playoffs.

So Boylan better figure it out quickly.

"We goin' to the 'ship!" - LSU IS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

by 1958ChiTown on Dec 27, 2007 2:55 PM CST reply actions

somewhere a Blazers blogger is fuming

(they're especially touchy)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:00 PM CST up reply actions

What do you see?

I only see one big man that is anything to worry about defensively. That's Dwight Howard.

This means...play the damn kids already. Get Tyrus and Noah in the f'n game.

by NBA Observer on Dec 27, 2007 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry are loads...

of crap.

GO BULLS(whatever they are now)!!

"Fans never fall asleep at our games, because they're afraid they might get hit by a pass." -George Raveling

by cubbybear on Dec 27, 2007 3:13 PM CST up reply actions

Good post, '58.

I have to agree here. Unlike the '04-'05 season or either of the last two seasons, this is not a team that will sneak up on anyone. And as pointed out by Tim Legler,

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071227

the Bulls' sloppy play coincides with the total clampdown on the formerly effective backcourt of Gordon and Hinrich. It might have taken 3 seasons, but now everyone knows how to play the Bulls.

This means that a late season surge, like any of the past 3 seasons, is that much less likely.

All of which goes back to your original point that if the Bulls don't make a dent in their mounting losses in the next 10 games, we should all start dreaming of a better future with high draft picks. (Leading to your evergreen draft diary, I suppose...)

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 27, 2007 3:12 PM CST up reply actions

Oh, I don't know

I mean, I know everyone (myself included) is frustrated with the season overall, but December has been much better for our charming backcourt - so has everyone really figured them out, or were they just playing so crappy it looked that way?

For the first 13 games of the season (Oct/Nov), Kirk shot .346 and had an A/TO ratio of 1.77, while BG shot .369 and had an A/TO ratio of .91. The last 13 games (Dec), Kirk has a .424 fg% and 2.58 A/TO ratio, and BG is at .412 and 2.06 for December. The December numbers aren't great, but they are decent and a huge improvement over the the first month.

December losses were to Boston (x2), Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Lakers, and Indiana. While losing to playoff teams certainly doesn't make the Bulls championship contenders, it's also a far sight better than the November losses to the the Sixers, Knicks, etc. Had the backcourt not been so hideous that first month, the team likely wins several of those games and is hovering around .500 - although we'd still all be pissed off about it given expectations.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say in way too many words is that I don't think the bottom of the barrel/may not make the playoffs record has as much to do with how teams are playing them as it does with the Bulls playing poorly. In some of the losses I do think it can be attributed to the other team's defense, but not in most of them.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 27, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions

All right, so

if I understand you correctly, the Bulls' guards were slumping in November and then ran into good/elite teams in December. No "good team" or "good backcourt" has draughts like this putrid two-month stretch. So I agree, they may have just been "bad" as opposed to "figured out".

And let's just take a stroll down memory lane to see just what kinds of teams have beat the Bulls this season (most of these are in November): Sixers, Bucks, Clips, Raptors (twice), Lakers (twice), Knicks, Pacers. Other than the Raptors I don't believe any of these were playoff teams last year.

I guess I do buy the point made by Legler, that other teams can go chest to chest with Gordon out to 26 feet and that this effectively shuts down his shooting, with a corresponding effect on Kirk.

Anyway, bottom line: We're #1. On the list of worst offenses in the league.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 27, 2007 4:34 PM CST up reply actions

I just pray Boylan

doesn't look at the same thing you're looking at and think, "Jeez, if I can just get trough these next ten games playing the old guys, I can start working in the young guys in in Feb."

I would so much rather getting the young guys in right away and damn the results, than to stick with the old guys for even one more game. I am solidly in Dwyer's camp from the article Matt linked (above, from yahoo.com).

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Boylan's on the Score now, and his plan is to move Gordon to the bench.

I really hate this organization.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:38 PM CST reply actions

oh, and before you 'tall guard' groupies

get excited, it's Duhon starting.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

Is the rest of the starting

line-up the same?

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions

didn't say.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:46 PM CST up reply actions

What's the thinking?

Are they saying that Hinrich is a two-guard and that with Duhon at the point whoever is playing in the front line will get better passes thrown to them? That only makes sense if they also move Smith to the bench, because he likes to hang around the top of the key, where Hinrich could always just hand the ball to him if he wanted to.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions

just said

that Gordon gives the bench more 'punch'. Or something. And that he's been good there in the past.

I'm sure they'll have the interview online soon enough. I'll transcribe the money quote and then rant and rave about it.

It really does muck up the lineup. I don't want both Gordon AND Noc coming off the bench chucking. I don't want Noc starting because there's no rebounding (remember, you have two midget guards who won't help out). I guess start Tyrus.

Basically it sucks to high heaven because Duhon sucks, and Duhon/Hinrich sucks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

Another thing they could be saying with this

is that they want better perimeter defense at the start of games, which Duhon and Hinrich certainly will provide.

There's also been a fair amount of talk about running a different kind of offense. How might that work with Duhon rather than Gordon?

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions

they are the worst offense in the league

the. worst.

perimeter defense shouldn't be as big of a concern.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions

Under normal circumstances

-- and don't flame me Matt -- I am saying that under NORMAL circumstances (and these are clearly NOT normal), BG would be starting and Du starting would never happen.

But Du has (under THESE circumstances) been playing a lot more solid than Gordon.
And last year when BG was coming off the bench, he did provide a lot of scoring pop, as did Noc.

And since Boylan has been around to witness what worked in the past, perhaps he's "runnin' home to mama" and trying that again.

I'm not saying that it's right - and I'm not saying it will work or that it won't blow up in his face...

But I DO applaud him for at least TRYING something different than the pure shyte that has been going on this season.

And I would think that short of a major personel trade / shake up, something majorly "different" is what it's going to take to give this team a chance to win....

Hey - as long as it works....I'm down...
And if it don't - then take Boylan out back and shoot him too.

I suppose the good thing here is that it can really only get better at this point, yes? :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Dec 27, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions

And let's face it

BG has dug his own hole on this - HE is responsible for his being benched.
If he were playing good ball then we wouldn't be posting about him not starting.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Dec 27, 2007 7:08 PM CST up reply actions

Gordon and Noc both

coming off the bench is a terrible idea. And Noc starting is a terrible idea. Is it wvwn possible for the Captain to get benched? I'd rather the Kirk and Ben baccourt be left alone. But, at this point Duhon/Gordon makes a ton more sense than Duhon/Hinrich. The one thing that has somewhat salavaged the Duhon/Hinrich backcourt this year is that Duhon has been the one playing SG on offense most of the the time. Duhon can stand in the corner as well as any player.

by Scotter on Dec 27, 2007 4:16 PM CST up reply actions

oh, I guess he did address your comment

he was asked if that meant Hinrich was a 2. But Boylan sidestepped it and said they're both guards who are capable of bringing the ball up. So...chew on that for a bit :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

I tuned in too late

Anything else worth mentioning ?

by Option27 on Dec 27, 2007 3:48 PM CST up reply actions

I'm fine with Duhon starting

Strange that they bench Gordon after having a decent game against SA.

I'd be content as long as they don't start Nocioni. He has done nothing the past week to merit getting into the starting lineup.

by RogersPark Kris on Dec 27, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions

I agree with you on Noc

although I don't want him and Gordon coming in together, as they're both chuckers. Basically I want Noc buried :)

Although, with Duhon starting there's a good possibility they'll be down double-digits in the 1st quarter every game, and by then they'll need all the offense they can get. Comebacks!!

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:01 PM CST up reply actions

as much as I don't like

to see Gordon off the bench, I do like the idea of a starting point guard. Nauseating it may be, indicative of futility it surely is, but Duhon has been our best point. As in, better than "Captain" Kirk.

by Freethefro on Dec 27, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions

so why do you like something

that indicates futility?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions

And, let me guess:

he'll stress accountability by pulling any player except Hinrich and Nocioni for a bad play? And he'll liberally use Griffin and Grey?

Sorry to be sarcastic (or repetitive).

But how about putting in TT or Noah to free up your shooters? How is Wallace going to do anything but be a liability on the offensive end?

Thanks for providing a forum for all of us frustrated fans.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 27, 2007 3:46 PM CST up reply actions

he did mention accountability

and 'spacing'.

(I'm serious)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 3:53 PM CST up reply actions

As if all he has to do

is mutter some magic words and he magically rights this ship? And the problems of bad chemistry, no offense, no height, no developing young, high draft picks--Poof!--gone, because hey, he's going to "hold players accountable" and "have better spacing" and "bring more punch to the bench".

It's downright Orwellian.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 27, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions

Wow, that

has to be so demoralizing to BG. If it helps I guess it's ok but if it doesn't what a waste of his time sitting on the bench.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 27, 2007 3:52 PM CST up reply actions

Some math:

with 56 games remaining, a 67% win percentage means 37 more before the season ends, or a total of 46.

Is there anyone out there that believes major minutes for JoeS, Noc, and Griffin(!) means they will start suddenly winning at a 67% clip?

In a sense, it's already too late to start playing TT, Thabo, Noah, and Gray. In hindsight, it should've happened from the start.

by marionette on Dec 27, 2007 3:41 PM CST reply actions

Guess I

should've included Du in the "major minutes" group!

by marionette on Dec 27, 2007 3:42 PM CST up reply actions

Sorry, not getting why you say

it's too late to play the young guys more?

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Dec 27, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions

Should've done so from the start...

With an admittedly (improbable?) ceiling of 46 wins (and shrinking...), there's already been time lost, potential damage done (TT and Thabo) in HINDSIGHT. But it truly is never too late to start.

The point of my math is that it seems to me most all B-O-Bers are realizing this, and frustrated with each passing game that sees TT get 6min, and Noah and Sefo w/4mins ea.

I just wanted to put a number on it (remainder of season). And instead of "In a sense", I could've written "In hindsight", maybe that would have made it clearer.

Think of it this way: If PT had been something like Du 10, Kirk 34, BG 34, Thabo 18, TT 25, Noc 24, Lu 35, BBen 32, Noah 18, JoeS 10, (or whatever each B-O-Ber's personal preference was from the start of the season) we'd know for certain, or at least have a much better idea, if Tyrus has improved his shot and def positioning, Noah is as useful as Hollinger thinks he could be, Thabo has truly regressed or not...And I put it to you that the win total wouldn't be lower (it could hardly be much lower!) and the youth would be already developing, instead of turning into a set of uncertainties.

by marionette on Dec 27, 2007 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

So

Gordon sucking means Gordon goes to the bench AND Hinrich sucking means Gordon goes to the bench.

Horrible.

And when Gordon saves games by scoring off the bench, it'll be "because he's a bench player."

I never understood why they can't just let Gordon have this "score first" mentality in the starting line-up too. It's not like letting all the other guys get going does anything for the team.

I'd love someone to ask Boylan or Paxson why the idea of Hinrich coming off the bench is never broached.

by nas on Dec 27, 2007 4:01 PM CST reply actions

I got keel-hauled here a month ago

for comparing Gordon to Vinnie Johnson, but Greg Anthony just made the same comparison a couple days ago on the TNT broadcast. ...not that he knows anything. Just ask Isiah about that. The point I was trying to make back then was that on a good team BG would be an instant offense, Vinnie Johnson kind of player.

However, as the past few weeks have clearly demonstrated, the Bulls are not a good team, which now has me listing toward the majority here, wanting to keep BG in the starting line-up. Plus, someone had a truly great conspiracy remark here yesterday about how demoting BG and turning Deng into a 2 was the best way to lower their value on the open market.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

problem with that theory

is that even if Gordon is pegged as a bench player and somehow accepts a mid-level salary, they've already committed 5 years (5!) at a similar salary to Nocioni.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

and yet

you want him to be out of the rotation. Whereas I'm sure you think Nocioni looks good because the Bulls are so bad, I think he'd be more valuable on a great team that hopefully the bulls will be in 4 years. He'd presumably be less of a gunner if there were more shooters and we know he's a great shooter when open. Plus he might not feel so compelled to help on defense. Basically I'm saying if you put him on the Spurs, he'd be great.

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions

well what I'd want is to take away the salary

but so it goes in the land of guaranteed contracts.

If Nocioni was on the Spurs he wouldn't be making $7-8m for 5 years. He'd be Matt Bonner, and rule.

If he can play 15 minutes a game for the duration of the contract and the Bulls become a great team and he's a fine role player, then hooray. I think his salary is a hinderance to that end, which may be fault of the undetermined luxury tax edict, but it seems unlikely that they'd pay 2 bench players that much money (and years) each.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:45 PM CST up reply actions

Noc's first year here he was basically used

as a defensive pest whose sole purpose was to get under the opponent's skin. Hey! That sounds a lot like our former interim coach's playing days description. Some of his most effective games came against the Pistons. When did he morph into a supposed offensive threat?

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions

huh?

As much as I crap on Nocioni, he's a far better offensive player than he was his rookie season. And it's a good thing, since 'getting under skin' isn't a very useable sole skill.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

Personally, I think Noc is damaged goods.

The reason his defense is so bad this year is that his foot won't allow him the kind of mobility he had when he first came to the team. Watch him when he runs up the court. He takes two or three steps to come to a stop. He used to, and most player simply slam on the brakes. Noc can't do that anymore. He also used to rebound. He doesn't do that anymore either. And I say the reason he's devolved into a spot-up jump shooter is that it just hurts too much to drive. And this is coming from someone who likes the guy. The Bulls will end up doing some sort of injury settlement on his contract.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 5:21 PM CST up reply actions

what?

he was driving to the hoop three games ago.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 27, 2007 5:27 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know, man. I just say

watch him. He doesn't look like the same player to me.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions

He's had a couple bad games

and he might have gotten hurt in one of those, but before that he was fine.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 27, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions

I'll second Alec's notion

Noc has been really poor on defense, and his lateral mobility is way down - no so many charges drawn this year, lots of dribble penetration by his man. However, much of this is mental, too. I can't tell you the number of times he's "helped" on a player that didn't need helping, leaving a three point shooter open, leaving me screaming at the TV.

by Freethefro on Dec 28, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

Look this stuff up.

This is the difference between "stats guys" and "eyes guys". You just don't remember everything you think you do.

He's taking more free throws than ever before which is typically a good indicator of drives.

He's also taking more 3 pointers, taking him further from the basket. He's getting fewer rebounds, but not much. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a strong correlation between a SF/PF taking more threes and getting less rebounds. It at least counts for part of the reduction. He's also playing a minute less per game. He's also playing about 64% of his minutes at PF compared to 80% last year (taking him further away from the basket). Steals are down by .1, but blocks are the same as are TO's which indicate that he's at least close to his usual agility.

Maybe he is still "hurt", but I never thought he was all that athletic, comparatively, to begin with. Is he getting less rebounds? Yes, but is it because he's "damaged goods?" More than likely, no.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Dec 27, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions

LOL at the thought

of Spurs offering THAT contract to Noc!

by marionette on Dec 27, 2007 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

the contract

he signed it, there's nothing we can do about it now. I think he'd be used a lot more than Bonner, I think pretty much he could take all of Bonner and Barry's minutes and be the second guy off the bench on the Spurs and make them even better than they are now.

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 5:37 PM CST up reply actions

Noc's contract

is the filler that allows the bulls to trade for any player making max money without giving up half the team.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 27, 2007 5:46 PM CST up reply actions

Good point.

I hadn't seen that before.

Speaking of contracts. Is there some sort of moratorium on signing new contracts? If someone wants BG, for example, could the Bulls do any sort of a sign and trade? I think there's an issue about this, but I don't know what it is.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 5:50 PM CST up reply actions

the extension deadline is there for a reason

no new contracts until the end of the year (july 1st, I think)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 6:06 PM CST up reply actions

This Paxson Era

is unbelievable. It's worst than Krause last years with Floyd and Cartwright. Krause had guys that could score but no D and Paxson has guys who at one time played defense, but never could score. Krause (1 out 2) and Paxson (0 out 2).

And now talk of starting Duhon and Hinrich?
I don't mind moving Gordon to the bench, but I'm now starting to grow impatience waiting for Kirk to response. I wouldn't mind if they traded Kirk, Thabo and Duhon and started over. Still Duhon is ok in a certain role.

How bad will the Bulls really be, maybe they'll win 28 games this year? No playoffs for this team, who are we kidding!

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 4:13 PM CST reply actions

Agreed

Krause at least stockpiled tradeable assets. Pax has squandered them. How do you have two 22 yr old seven footers and trade them away for an expiring contract you don't use then replace the position w/ a washed up undersized fraud (Wallace) and then draft the same no offense, hustle player twice (Noah and Tyrus)? When Kirk was picked, he was drafted to be the point guard. If Pax said on draft night that we plan to use Kirk at the 2, everyone would have laughed at him. Yet here we are w/ Kirk as our sg. Some teams have Kobe, or Tmac or Dwade or Redd, we have Kirk as our 2 guard. What a joke.

A good deal of the problem on this team is that no one has a position. Every other team has everyone at a set position except maybe the bigs switch b/t C and PF. Kirk was drafted as a pg, is OBVIOUSLY a pg, yet here he is the 2 guard. Tyrus was drafted as a PF but all I read is that he is better at SF, the only position we are solid at. Gordo is a 6' sg, a position that does not exist except in Denver. Wallace is the cener but he really is a PF, and he is small and talentless for both positions. Everyone has to do things that aren't their strengths to make up for Pax's bad moves.

by windycityhoops on Dec 27, 2007 5:26 PM CST up reply actions

spacing

I don't understand your hatred for the term spacing, it actually is a very important part of basketball. Not as important as having the best players playing but still important.

As far as Duhon, can anyone in the world explain why Hinrich would keep his starting job over Gordon? Insanity.

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 4:26 PM CST reply actions

I think it's the Orwellian use of the word

that grates.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

I don't want to win the alec award

so I wouldn't say 'orwellian'.

It's just been said so much the past few years it's cliche' at this point. And those grate.

Plus it always seems to mean "we need 4 jumpshooters on the court"

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 4:33 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, well you could always pick another dystopian

author, and call it Aldous Huxlian...thereby implying they're all on drugs.

by alec on Dec 27, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions

ideally

well I think its important to not have two people on the court who cant shoot at all in this day and age. Luckily Tyrus seems to be developing a jumper and hopefully Wallace will simply retire.

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions

Spacing is important, but

too often it has been used as an excuse for playing the three-guard and other undersized overmatched lineups. It's used as an excuse for playing unproductive veteran players. "Spacing" is a word with alot of negative baggage when spoken by a Bulls coach.

by Scotter on Dec 27, 2007 4:33 PM CST up reply actions

BG

will be asking for a trade soon. Not good gor a guy in his contract year. Benched Kirk, guy can't get into the lane without a pick. Can't shoot for shit. Trade him for a real point guard, go get A. Miller.

by chris44 on Dec 27, 2007 4:27 PM CST reply actions

I can't imagine

a team wanting to trade for gordon without him signing an extension. And who really wants to pay gordon any money right now? Unless the bulls really turn it around and make it into the 2nd round of the playoffs I see both Gordon and Deng signing their one year qualifying offer with the bulls next year. They aren't going to get what paxson offered them after their play this season and paxson won't offer the same deal again.

by bullsfaninla on Dec 27, 2007 4:52 PM CST up reply actions

Finding the Core

The Bulls are seeking an identity. They need to figure out who the core players are going to be over the next 5 years or so.

Wallace and Smith are not long term solutions. They are there to play roles and help develop the younger players.

Gray, Thomas, Noah, and Sefolosha need lots of playing time so we can see how they develop. No better time than this season to do it.

Deng, Gordon, Noc, and Duhon are the players that give me the most hope. They're not exactly the core of a championship team, but they could all have roles on a great team.

Hinrich, on the other hand - we need to try and improve his reputation over the rest of the season in the desperate hope that some foolish team will trade something good for him.

by BJarmstrong on Dec 27, 2007 4:50 PM CST reply actions

sound reasoning....

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:14 PM CST up reply actions

I'll never understand the infatuation with BG

but whatever. Benching him for Duhon doesn't solve anything in the short or long run, unless Duhon has become one of the young guys they want to groom and develop... how's that for an interesting development... muhahahaha!!!!

I'd also be surprised if BG hasn't already asked for a trade. I wonder how much of that kind of thing is going on that we aren't hearing about.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 27, 2007 5:20 PM CST reply actions

If Gordon had signed his extension . . .

There's no way in hell he'd be getting benched. Just compare his treatment to the kid-glove treatment that Hinrich and Wallace receive from the Bulls. They've been even worse than Gordon, yet no one even considers benching them. Of course, they both make 8-figures this year, and the Bulls have to justify their terrible contracts. If the Bulls had anyone better than Gordon it would be one thing, but the Bulls have to be the only team in the league that would bench him for Chris Duhon. Now he'll demand a trade, and since his value is at an all-time low the Bulls will receive 30 cents on the dollar for him. Great fucking job, Pax.

by Big D on Dec 27, 2007 6:11 PM CST reply actions

An addendum:

I retract that statement if Pax's secret plan is to tank the season and hope to get lucky in the draft lottery. If that's the plan, then benching Godon for Duhon is a brilliant idea.

by Big D on Dec 27, 2007 6:29 PM CST up reply actions

Paxson

would waste the draft pick anyway. His rule as the GM is not good. Brillant and Paxson in the same sentence related to Bulls GM doesn't match. Brillant and Paxson in another context maybe. I don't dislike Paxson, but his plan for this team in inception (good character guys,winning college program role players, no offensive players, no headband rules, scott skiles as coach, modeling the supposely no star pistons) lack any type of strategy.

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:27 PM CST up reply actions

correction..

Brilliant

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions

Du for Gordon is worth a try.

I think we need a change that indicates things may be different. Duhon can guard Redd which minimizes the risk of Hinrich getting into foul trouble. Foul trouble may be a factor in Hinrich's poor play. Gordon also may benefit by playing against the secondary guard. This is better than doing nothing.

by chgobr on Dec 27, 2007 7:00 PM CST reply actions

Ben Gordon

Plays better off the bench!!! It does not matter who starts. IT'S WHO FINISHES THE GAME!

by gobulls1124 on Dec 27, 2007 7:12 PM CST reply actions

veektor, the promise, and griffin

are going to be finishing games at this rate.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Dec 27, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions

I miss

the old garbage days when Pargo, Othella and Piatkowski would dominate the last 3 minutes when the bulls were down by 15+ points. They made it much closer and less embarrassing. I can only dream of the promise being as good as Pargo.

by Sambossanova on Dec 27, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions

I miss those days too

Pike, Pargo, and The Big O could at least score the ball.

Fire Boylan!

by hscs on Dec 27, 2007 9:33 PM CST up reply actions

The worst part about all of this

is that it appears as though this mostly comes down to Skiles screwing up the heads of the talented players that Pax brought here.

But Pax is to blame for letting it go so long.

Skiles was showing his coaching limitations with his absurd line ups during the play-offs last spring.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Dec 27, 2007 7:19 PM CST reply actions

Is starting as important as Pt?

I take Joe smith as an example, he is a starter, but u rarely see him in the second or fourth quarter, yes that has much to do with his age and ailing injuries, but it just brings up a though. Just because duhon is starting, doesnt mean gordon is sharing the same role as noch.

I think having duhon and hinrich start would just help the bulls run offense and wear down the other teams guards for the eventual unleashing of gordon. Gordon has this uncanny knack of coming off the bench HOT. As for du and kirk, one of the two always seems to be playing poorly, so take the crappy one out and put duhon in for him.

This will help also kirk hinrich, who will not have to work so hard on defense, can calm down a bit on fouls and such, and because duhon can play the point, hinrich can play the 2 (for a while) just to find his shooting touch (if there is one). If hinrich has a bad night (like last night, or the boston game a week ago) the right away we can see how duhon is playing, if he is on, then let gordon in for hinrich and you just gain without loss.

Wearing down other guards will ultimately make defense a little easier for gordon, and having gordon in changes the entire pace of the bulls offense. Having noch and gordon in at the same time may be one too many chuckers, but at the same time it should make the other team uneasy (especially when they are both on) pulling the opposing teams defense out towards the perimieter where we can have a tyrus thomas, or noah hammer it down, or let aaron gray create from the inside out.

I think more important is not having the rotation the way us fans want to think the rotations will be. Meaning, gordon being benched more than duhon or hinrich (the best two at the time should always play, not the best two in theory) and getting time for the bigs.

And to get really crazy, maybe boylan might use gordon as pg, deng as sg, noch at the sf, tyrus at pf, and noah at center, for an uber offensive line up. I can see this happening if both duhon and hinrich fall to early foul trouble. Another advantage for gordon is just that, no early foul trouble...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 27, 2007 7:20 PM CST reply actions

Yes!

"I think having duhon and hinrich start would just help the bulls run offense and wear down the other teams guards for the eventual unleashing of gordon. Gordon has this uncanny knack of coming off the bench HOT."

You have the idea!

by gobulls1124 on Dec 27, 2007 7:43 PM CST up reply actions

all Duhon and Hinrich will wear down

is the front and back of the basketball rim.

is the reseeding hair line of Jimmy Boylan.

is the Bulls ownership's patience with John Paxson.

is the fan's ear drums hearing more and more clanks off the rim.

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:44 PM CST up reply actions

all Duhon and Hinrich wear down

is the shot clock. And my sanity.

(provide your answers below!)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 7:49 PM CST up reply actions

gordon

I feel bad for gordon. sure, he's a one dimensional player, but why's he always the one who's getting jerked around. what has hinrich proven that he hasn't? Duhon and Gordon make much more sense as a starting pair than Duhon and Hinrich. Hell I'd even prefer Duhon and Deng.

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 7:53 PM CST up reply actions

or Thabo and Gordon.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 7:55 PM CST up reply actions

or Ronnie Brewer

oh wait....

by JSlakov on Dec 27, 2007 8:00 PM CST up reply actions

Question

Is my idea truly illogical, or is it just the case of fans being critical fans....?

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Dec 27, 2007 11:05 PM CST up reply actions

I think anytime a team

plays worse players it's illogical. But it's also something coaches (especially here) like to do, and I think a lot of it has to do with them needing to show that they're coaching.

There are also a lot of ideas that can be made using evidence from this season. I don't like using that as the sole evidence, but I suppose it's not 'illogical'

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Dec 27, 2007 11:12 PM CST up reply actions

I thought it sounded like the BG as PG idea

is more or less dead - didn't Boylan essentially say that Kirk and Du will share ball handling duties when both in, then whoever stays in will assume sole ball handling duties when BG comes in?

I may be remembering that wrong, but that was the impression I got. Although I suppose if both Kirk and Du get in foul troble, there aren't a lot of other options!

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Dec 27, 2007 7:55 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly

And this is what bothers me the most. I know Gordon's not the best ballhandler, but he's so much better with the ball than without. Give him a chance to dominate the ball (instead of Kirk dribbling in circles) and see how it goes.

I think this move is almost more about getting Kirk going than it is Gordon. Kirk sucking = Gordon benched.

by nas on Dec 27, 2007 8:10 PM CST up reply actions

Sue's gonna kick your ass.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Dec 27, 2007 8:43 PM CST up reply actions

LOL!!!

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Dec 28, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

Can we just blame it all on

Ben Wallace. He has nothing to offer on either ends of the floor and he whines when he doesn't get 30+ minutes.

by gobulls1124 on Dec 27, 2007 7:57 PM CST reply actions

Paxson

should have pleaded to keep Skiles, because now he will be the object of present and immediate future backlash.

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:36 PM CST reply actions

I don't care about the

guard rotation, who starts blah blah, just give me 40 minutes of Tyrus a game and I'll be a happy fan. Maybe that "fireskiles" guy can just ask for 40 for TT every thread.

by philosoball on Dec 27, 2007 8:48 PM CST reply actions

It seems

as naming Boylan as interm coach and him suggesting to start Duhon and Hinrich to bench Gordon is encouraging the fan base, another great job Paxson. ;)

Redeem yourself.... Fire Boylan before the game tomorrow, and make history. "Be the only GM to fire a coach before him coaching one minute of one game". Just say "I made a mistake"

by exult463 on Dec 27, 2007 8:56 PM CST reply actions

Only hope...

is that placing Duhon in the starting lineup is an attempt to increase his (Duhon's) trade value.

Bulls cannot score points so putting their best scorer (BG) on the bench is ridiculous. I am of the opinion that a professional athlete is capable of the same performance regardless of whether or not he comes off the bench, so the idea that he plays better off of the bench is just a bunch of hooey. and incase anybody has not noticed... Duhon sucks.

Out of Hinrich, Du, and Gordon Gordon is the best player.

A trade is imminent. If a trade is not made for a (for lack of a better word) good player by the deadline I'm gonna get pissed.

My starting lineup would be:
BG
Deng
Tyrus
Wallace
Noah

by Zac23 on Dec 27, 2007 9:42 PM CST reply actions