Reactions from the Bulls-Pistons game

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 9:17 AM CST Comment 46 comments

The Bulls-Piston game headlined the Daily Dime. Jalen Rose finds ways to highlight the weaknesses in the Bulls' win. He cites no on-the-floor-leader as one. He then has a box blasting management for leaking the financial aspects of the deals BG and Luol turned down. Seems like he is still a little bitter about his Bulls days, and all the trades he was a part of over the years...

Interesting article on how Noc's minutes are getting squeezed. Noc is a classic sub, his minutes were going to be limited as soon as a PF started playing well enough to warrant the minutes. Also mentions Duhon coming in before Thabo, also warranted based on the fact that Thabo might not have hit a shot yet this year. There is a brief mention of Ben Wallace being stuck on the bench for the 4th quarter. BW doesn't seem to upset yet, which is good since Tyrus and Joe Smith, and even Noah are playing well enough to keep him there, at least until he is 100%.

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I really enjoyed

seeing Noah out there. I noticed the little things with him. Maybe because the game was on TNT and you could hear him a lot more. I noticed right before one of his Free Throws he says "lets go white".... The thing I was most impressed with him was when he was taken in the 4th qtr he gathers the team and tries to pump them up since he knew he was done for the game. I bring this up becuase the Bulls are lacking a "leader" and Noah could possibly be that person as the season progresses. Those are just some of the little things I noticed with him...
Kirk looked pretty good, I was very happy with his assists and defensive effort.
Deng looked lost out there, but he ended up with 17 points so I cant really complain. I thought he got hacked a couple of times but no call!!!
Joe Smith looked smooth and not scared to take that big shot.
Now, the game ball goes to my prez TT. He was very active on the boards He showed a lot of energy and is looking very confident. I still have no idea how he made the one shot where he shot it from his arm pit. The look on Rasheed and Prince after he made that shot was priceless. He didnt back down from Rasheed and welcomed the challange. Rasheed on the low-post is a very tough matchup for anyone and I thought this was a good step in the right direction for his devolpment.
Good WIN!!!!

by tyrus4prez on Nov 9, 2007 9:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think it will be interesting as the season goes

on to see what develops as Ty - really the whole PF position with Joe Smith doing so well, too - starts to take on a bigger offensive role. It's been BG, Lu and Kirk as the offense for so long. Once BG and Kirk get the outside shot working again, and if Ty can keep that 10-15 footer working, I expect this to end up being a really fun offense.

And I love a lot of things about Noah, but if he never takes a turn-around jumper again I'll be OK with it!

I think the hardest part is going to be Skiles handling the lineup. With Kirk, BG, Lu, Ty and Big Ben starting, and Joe Smith, Noah, Noc and Du (or Thabo) coming off the bench, the rotation is already 9 deep - 10 deep if both Du and Thabo get time.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 9, 2007 9:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

mins / Thabo

I would hopefully see less Wallace to keep him fresher and more Noah / JSmith at center. JSmith is older so don't want to wear him down over reg season either. Noc should get less mins this year with Thomas really needing time on floor.

I still think Thabo being able to participate is key for Bulls as they could use a big guard to play alongside Kirk/Ben and he is good on D. The problem is he has to be more effective and not a negative on offense. Until he does that then Duhon ends up being the only Guard off the bench.

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 9, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also

wouldn't of mind to see Kirk give an elbow to RIP while diving into their bench. It would of been great to see RIP's nose get broken while not wearing the mask. God I hate him!!!

by tyrus4prez on Nov 9, 2007 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Rip

How about rip reaching out and grabbing TT's ankle after Tyrus blocked his layup? That was a pretty classless move.

by onlythebulls on Nov 9, 2007 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RIP

It looked like Tyrus was about to go over to Rip and let him know just how he felt after he grabbed his leg. Thier is a history betwen the two of them and I wish TT would of put him in his place. I've never seen such a softer 6'7" guard than Rip. He makes Antwan Jamison look like a beast.

by tyrus4prez on Nov 9, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

god that would have been amazing

i hate rip too....he is my little sis' favourite player, and i'm working her every day to convert her, or at least turn into a prince or bilupps fan

jalen rose is a moron. The pistons played mostly post last night, but look at their +15 advantage from behind the arc. Furthermore, last year the bulls shot jump shots at a 67% rate, while detroit was a 65% rate; unbeilveble. A moron, and a michigan player, coincidence? i think now ;-)

by milesgmsu on Nov 9, 2007 10:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

not

bloody mac keyboards...still getting used to them

by milesgmsu on Nov 9, 2007 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rip is a jackass

There's always something that happens with him whenever we play the pistons. I take comfort in the fact that TT seems to get under his skin a lot. There was that one incident last year where Rip followed him down the court screaming at him. The swat and near tea bagging of him last night was classic.

by Hiryu on Nov 9, 2007 10:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

And did you see this from him?

(Sorry about the formatting, but I'm at school and don't have all the codes here.)

"Hamilton, who had four fouls and a technical in Thursday's loss to the Bulls, doesn't think there's any real problem, nor does he think he needs to make any adjustment.

What's started to happen, Hamilton admits, is defenders are taking some of his off-the-ball tricks and using them against him. Hamilton over the years has drawn a lot of fouls by initiating contact then throwing his hands into the air to make it look like he was bumped. Recently, defenders have been grabbing him first and when Hamilton tries to free himself, he's getting called for the foul.

As for his frustration level, Hamilton says it's under control.

"Last year was last year," he said, as if wiping the slate clean. "With my technical fouls, I controlled each and every one. You do things to make a statement sometimes. It's nothing that I think about and it's nothing that's a problem. With my team, it's not like they are saying, 'Rip, you've got to stop getting Ts,' because they know that when I get one, I meant to get it."

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071109/SPORTS0102/711090415/1127/SPORTS0102

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 9, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy

is just an ass. He needs to get over himself.

Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 9, 2007 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or

TYRUS WILL!!!

by tyrus4prez on Nov 9, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Good one!

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 9, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

TT's Tea bagging

"I should tell you that I haven't had a chance to shower while making my way up here, my balls are extra vinegary"

by onlythebulls on Nov 9, 2007 10:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hey Rip

You have soemthing on your mask!!!

by tyrus4prez on Nov 9, 2007 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what really stood out to me more than anything...

...else about this game was how well our big men matched up underneth the basket, physically. i'm used to the piston big men having thier way with us in terms of boards. but our young bucks thomas and noah with some help from thier elder statesmen wallace and smith got us the second chance points we absolutly needed to pull out this win. we out rebounded them 47 - 36 and had a whopping 15 offensive boards (crazy man noah pulled down 5 o boards in 11 minutes converting 3 of them into assists).

by jocrucial on Nov 9, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Few points on Noah

I've got to say that I'm extremely happy with Noah's performance last night. Biggest plus was that he didn't try to do too much. First, if he could convert garbage a little better, he would have had about 8 more points. He's got a great nose for the ball on the O and D glass. Second, he made some great passes, to open shooters and that wild one to Noce when Noah was trapped under the basket. He put J. Kidd spin on it! Third, and best, did anyone else flip out when he grabbed the defensive board and took it coast to coast? Point center! Ill advised, but I love the enthusiasm (he either drew a foul or turned it over on a sloppy layup?). Let Wallace sit until he gets his head right and give Noah his minutes!

by Old Skool Sloan on Nov 9, 2007 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think he drew the foul and missed both FTs.

Noah does seem to know what he is doing as long as he doesn't take another jump shot. This may be our Big Ben replacement.

There seems to be a perception that Big Ben is playing poorly because he is injured. This may be true. What about the possibility that he is playing poorly bcause he isn't that good? Is it time to give Aron Grey 5 minutes to see if he should be considered in the Bulls future?

by chgobr on Nov 9, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Upgrade our Gray matter...

Yeah, the much-heralded Aaron Gray sightings have been non-existent. I don't think he's gonna be a significant contributor this year, but I think Skiles is waiting for garbage time to sub him in. That means we need to build a big lead against a team, which is yet to happen. Once we get back to our winning ways (knock on wood) we can tinker with the edges.
You're right, the Wallace thing scares me.

by Old Skool Sloan on Nov 9, 2007 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're lucky Matt is at the blog convention

Or his wrath would have fallen upon you for suggesting "the big white man who we don't speak of" (TBWMWWDSO) get more minutes...

by torch on Nov 9, 2007 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you wholeheartedly

Let Big Ben sit and rest that ankle until it's at least 90% and let's give Noah some more burn.

I also have to say Joe Smith has been much better than I could have expected (And I was one of the few maybe who was excited about Joe in the Bulls uniform).

Now if Ben can go on a hot streak,

If Luol can play 30-40 minutes strong (instead of playing the first 20-25 minutes well and then just playing idle down the stretch).

And most importantly if Kirk and Big Ben can get their games back. Kirk was much better last night, but he still hasn't had a decent scoring night (tho' his assists were good). I have to hope Big Ben's issues are the result of the injury. If he's healthy, he's our key to being East contenders, if he keeps playing the way he's been playing well then we better hope Tyrus can keep up last night's game all season and that Noah can suddenly mature.

Also, I'm ridiculously disappointed that Thabo hasn't done anything yet, I was banking on him to come in and challenge Ben Gordon for starters time (and force BG into the perfect for him super sub role again)....

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm happy and not

Too many weapons for the Bulls, not enough time.

I really want to see Tyrus out these for a large chunk of the game and Noah to get minutes but then Joe Smith has pretty much been our most consistant player.

And sadly, Noc's role seems reduced along with Thabo.

Also, whatever happened to Griffin? Is he still really injured?!

by Option27 on Nov 9, 2007 12:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni will get his time

Nocioni will get some time, but Noc has to let his game come to him, and so far this year Noc has been trying too hard to force his game....

He's been rather effective when out there, but his defensive lapses are things that can hurt us against decent outside shooting teams like the Clippers and the Pistons.

I think it's a matchup issue. I didn't want to see Noc out there with Rasheed hitting almost everything and the perennial Hamilton and Billups threats.....the Pistons would force a switch with Hinrich and Noc or Big Ben/Joakim and Noc and that's when Nocioni tends to stay inside rather than follow the open man, leaving them up for wide open shots.....

I wonder if Noc will get a lot of time against the Raptors...he might because he can overpower Kapono and at least stick with Bosh, but he might not because of how deadly those shooters are. I predict after Toronto is over, Noc's time will come back....

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Noc's role is to be a gunslinger

he's supposed to come in off of the bench shooting. If he waits around and lets the game come to him, he's basically useless. He's been effective precisely because he doesn't wait around.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That doesn't

mean he has to take a contested 3-pointer every time he catches the ball.

by Scotter on Nov 9, 2007 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do you believe he does that?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noc

I like Noc most of time, the Bulls need his shooting to spread the floor and when we does drive he is capable of drawing fouls ... but I do think he looked a little trigger happy last night vs Det - he seemed to shoot everytime he caught it. One time off a offensive rebound the defender was right in his face, no reason to shoot contested 3s.

My real pet peeve is why does Duhon pass the ball inside to Wallace so much? And overall the Bulls make too many passes to a guy with only few seconds on the clock where they are not in position to score. If a guard has the ball with few secs left they need to do something other then pass to a defended player who has no options other then take bad shot

by NY Chicago Fan on Nov 9, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What I've thought I've seen.

Sometimes it seems like the guys are so set in executing a certain play that they will go through the motions even if it obviously isn't working. The coach or whoever called out a play and they might get in trouble for not executing it even if it means the ball stops with Deng who has two seconds to shoot with two defenders on him. That's just my impression. Their sets look really sweet when it works out, but when it doesn't work out the guy at the end of the play often has to chuck up a brick or a pass is intercepted because it was done just to complete a set rather than being a smart thing to do.

by cranscape on Nov 10, 2007 12:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That isn't true

He was really a engergy guy. A guy who would take a charge, come up with the hustle play and give a toughness to the second unit. Then he got his feet set and learned to shoot. Like many, many players who have come before him, he has fallen in love with the 3. This is not good. He should go hard to the hole, and take the three when it presents itself. Noc has gone from 2.9 to 3.94 and now to 4.2 three pointers per game I also wanted to work on my newly found html formating skills.

by joemoses on Nov 9, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say his game is evolving

and when guys close out on him taking a 3, he is wisely going to the basket. Not sure if the statistics bear that out yet, but that's my impression. He had three games with 5+ 3 attempts and two with 1 3 attempt. I think it has more to do with how the defense plays him than anything.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True to a point

Nocioni is effective when aggressive, but he doesn't need to always shoot immediately when he touches the ball either. He can let the defender know there comes a time when he won't take a "gunslinging approach".

That shot late yesterday (the 3 off of the I believe Tyrus or Joe Smith board in the 4th) was a case in point, we didn't have numbers inside and Nocioni took a pretty open shot, but because nobody was there to grab the miss (or at least we were outnumbered 1 to 3) Noc missed and the Pistons got the ball.

Noc needs to know when to be in "gunslinging" mode and when to be in team mode. He's rarely struggled between the two, but is struggling now.

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 2:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's Noc

He'd probably want that shot back, but it's his job to shoot. He's been effective because he doesn't always settle for the 3, but pump fakes and goes to the basket. You can't pull out one shot and say that he is struggling, or every player in the NBA would be struggling struggling.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As Kirk goes

so goes the Bulls. He really is a key. Good to see him pile up the assists.

by exult463 on Nov 9, 2007 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Excellent

Someone else believes the same concept of me. More than any other player on the bulls, I think its Kirk who anchors the team down. Afterall he does represent what the team has always tried to represent, a gritty hard worker, who plays smart, and goes all out on defense. Though i will acknowledge that deng or thomas may end up being the all stars of the team, and ben gordon is the better scorer, without kirk the team is not the same team.

It is imperetive hinrich leads the team by his example, him having energy will give everyone else energy, he makes the passes, he runs the offense, and defensively he sets the example. I think in the first two games with kirk in foul trouble he was really bringing down the team by being dissapointed in himself...

I think once kirk starts scoring well, then ben gordon will probably score well also, because i doubt gordon would like to be bested at scoring by kirk hinrich, and that should cause deng to score well too.

Really hinrich is the key, so i hope his slump is at an end, LETS TAKE THE EAST!!!

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 9, 2007 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you meant this...

"I think its Kirk who anchors the team down."

by Chad on Nov 9, 2007 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ehh

as long as you understood what i meant, it should be fine right?

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 9, 2007 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

true

but what you said, I think, was directly opposite of what you meant. I think you mean that Kirk is the Bulls rudder.

by Chad on Nov 10, 2007 3:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes yes

Better analogy i suppose....as long as EVERYONE understands that he is a very important part of the team, i dont care how you spin it...

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 10, 2007 3:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

get a nba point gaurd

hinrich's 14 assist vs the pistons were not a good indicator of the game he played. who couldn't have had 14 assists while being in the game 42 minutes & simply standing at the top of the key or free throw extended hitting cutters on their way to the basket. doesn't one dribble & a made basket constitute an assist in the nba? why not try a toss back in the next game. i don't expect it to go baseline when given as piston gaurds gave him all night or get into the lane or stop my deceased grandmother from doing both on the defensive end. imagine the number of assist any other point gaurd or forward or center could reach double digit assist by doing what he did. I won't ask how many fast break assist he had. you can always keep turnovers down when your not active on the offensive end of the floor. remember....he played 42 minutes!!!!!

by the truth on Nov 11, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is this the third place

where you've posted the exact same comment?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 11, 2007 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with this

for the most part. I think a lot of the Bulls' early problems came from Kirk's foul trouble.

by Jaina on Nov 9, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pointing out that shot as an example and

The stats tell the full picture Noc isn't performing:

39% FG (44.4% career much better if you ignore rookie yr)

19% 3PFG (35% career and much better post rookie yr)

and most of his other stats and efficiency ratings are well down....

He'll get out of it, but he's not playing like himself so far.

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

5 Years?

I hope he recovers, or Matt and others(myself included) might just overwhelm the site with Noce-gripes.

On Tyrus Thomas: Get that man a table dance, please!

by cubbybear on Nov 9, 2007 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hinrich's 14 assist vs pistons

the 14 assists were not a good indicator of the game he played. who couldn't have had 14 assists while being in the game 42 minutes & simply standing at the top of the key or free throw extended hitting cutters on their way to the basket. doesn't one dribble & a made basket constitute an assist in the nba? why not try a toss back in the next game. i don't expect it to go baseline when given as piston gaurds gave him all night or get into the lane or stop my deceased grandmother from doing both on the defensive end. imagine the number of assist any other point gaurd or forward or center could reach double digit assist by doing what he did. I won't ask how many fast break assist he had. you can always keep turnovers down when your not active on the offensive end of the floor. remember....he played 42 minutes!!!!!

by the truth on Nov 11, 2007 12:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

twice in the same diary?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 11, 2007 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry bullshooter & practice is good

again wasn't sure comment posted. although,you can't blame the consistency that i'm looking for a response. what about the last comment? i'm not posting it again & don't take out your ill feelings on the # of comments, stick to the issues. what if the bulls shots feel like my comments. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation so i agree......pratice is a start.

by the truth on Nov 11, 2007 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs