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Skiles vs Noah round one?

Well guys it's getting kinda old. See what losing will do. Now the coach is bashing his rookies comments. Or the fact that he made an honest assesment of the state of the Bulls. Well well welllllll.
Maybe Noah shouldn't have said anything but what do you expect him to say Skiles? It's Joakim Noah he speaks without filters. It was his Rookie debut of course he'll have a crowd around him asking him questions about the team. If you ask me I feel something is going on inside that maybe we don't know about. Whether or not Noah was frustrated by not knowing the plays and they have been butting heads or vice versa. Is it Skiles can not tollerate the slow progression as far as Noah learning the team plays? Who knows....

There seems to be friction and I spotted it in the last few games of the preseason. I remember Skiles calling Noah up to sub in for Gray when Noah came back to ask a question to the coaches Skiles shook his head in discust and sent him back to the bench. At which point Noah slowly walked back to the bench swearing. Seconds later one of the coaches came over to Noah with a white board and drew plays for him.

Ok Noah is having problems learning the plays I picked up on that during the last few preseason games but now it's starting to look childish that a coach would throw his player under the bus without him even knowing.

Skiles

"If I had just played my first pro game, I'd probably keep my mouth shut, to be honest with you," Skiles told reporters at the Berto Center. "It's obvious we're not playing to our ability. There's no doubt about that. I may have a little problem with the phrasing of that, but the point is probably spot-on. But it probably should be somebody else speaking for the group."

Noah

"I don't want to say anything. There's no ... um, there's not ... I don't have a problem with coach Skiles, OK? If he feels that way, I'll shut up," Noah said.

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON???

Ok now people are not on the same page here. Skiles has to take it this far? I realize both guys are blunt but come on. Your 0-4 do you think it's the best time to jab at a player through the media? No. What Skiles should have said was either No comment or I'll have a talk with Joakim.

For Bulls fans there is a dark cloud hanging over this team. I feel lost with this team. Do they even wana be Bulls?

  1. This team has holes that really didn't get addressed in the offseason.
  2. Their two best players want mega millions and haven't shown to really step up to the plate and play with any urgency. Or show mental toughness. They haven't even made it past the second round of the playoffs.
  3. This team seems to have maxed out.
        A. Other teams are playing just as hard.(remember the hardest working team in the NBA?)
        B.  They know if you stop BG the odds are against the Bulls
        C.  Ben Wallace is dead. His fro is thinned with strands of gray.
  1. Kobe( Thats all I'll say of the never ending bs)
  2. Now Noah and Skiles seem to be butting heads.
I have no idea whats going on in the inside but what Noah said was nothing but honesty from a person who was just being honest in answering questions.

Why is Skiles mad?

 Skiles can't handle the truth! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!Skiles can't control this team. The 0-4 falls on Skiles and it's time for him to take some blame and stop spiting his rookie's honesty. It's not Noah's fault the truth kills Skiles.

 It's time for Skiles to look in the miror and do something now!
Some egos need to fucking be squashed or heads will roll. Trust me this team has grown some egos. Just cause your picked to win the East doesn't mean you relax and jerk off to your own picture.

Get a fucking win! Beat the Pistons!

  I hope they rally around their young and maybe take that into consideration and come together. Or they can just lose again and not know why............. until then Kobe! Kobe! Kobe!

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Noah's comments were relatively innocuous
Yeah, I'm sure Skiles would have absolutely no problems coaching Kobe Bryant.  None at all.

by Big D on Nov 8, 2007 1:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Like I said in another thread...
SHUT YOUR FUCKING ROOKIE MOUTH!!!

Rookies don't know shit.  I don't care how many college championships he won, when you are a rookie you toe the company line, smile and say the following things:

"We gotta play 'em one day at a time."

"I'm just happy to be here and hope I can help the ballclub."

"I just wanta give It my best shot and, Good Lord willing, things'll work out."

NOTE TO NOAH  - SHUT THE FUCK UP!

by Chad on Nov 8, 2007 1:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I like Noah
and I like his comments. A proven winner with more championships than Skiles will ever see. Or anyone on that team (Outside of Wallace). I think this team needs a little back bone.

Skiles runs a dictatorship and I do not know how players really like playing for him. I would hate to play for him personally. A coach that benches people after a mistake is not a coach to me.  

You would think Skiles would lead by example and save HIS comments for his new rookie 1 on 1. Maybe we have found the problem.

The Baby Bulls are back....

by Knowledge32 on Nov 8, 2007 8:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chad the moron
What do you expect from a knucklehead who seems to have a man-crush on Noah. He's frustrated so he uses the blog to vent his frustrations. Go get yourself a woman and vent your spleen on her. Dumb ass.

by SlamDunk on Nov 8, 2007 3:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Actually
If there is spleen-venting to be done, better Chad handle that on a chatboard and treat his woman like a princess and a partner.

Vent on dude.

Winning is a stat of mind.

by preverbal on Nov 8, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice
good substance to your post.  really did a good job pointing out how my idea was wrong again.  Nope, you don't like what I say so you call names.  In the blogosphere, the first one to call names loses.  Believe me, I've been doing this a long time.

Anyway, rookies should keep there mouths shut.  But you don't know that cause you have no idea how teams really work.  And I don't want to hear your high school heroics either.  And it's  not that I've been there.  I just pay attention and I have a far greater understanding of how team, especially professional team, run.

In the pros, rookies keep their mouths shut.

by Chad on Nov 8, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noah's no phony
If he has something to say he'll say it. That's the way he was raised. Unlike the other players, he's not intimidated by Skiles. He's lived all his life among larger-than-life figures, so who the heck is Scott Skiles?

by SlamDunk on Nov 8, 2007 3:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Noah's comments...
The quote I read from Noah included some things about how they won two championships at Florida playing as thought every possession was their last and that isn't happening with the Bulls. Even if he's right about the Bulls not being tenacious enough so far, no one wants some kid to show up and run his mouth endlessly about how his two college championships taught him what it takes to win.

I'm a Noah fan but he needs to realize his championships in Florida don't mean anything to Skiles and the guys in the locker room.

by theundergroundman on Nov 8, 2007 4:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

totally agree
you're in no position to call out your teammates at this point.

by rexisourqb on Nov 8, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't sound like
calling out your teammates. And winning 2 National Championships back to back is a huge deal and damn near impossible.

Is he right? Ask yourself, are Noah's comments right? Are the Bulls playing as if each possesion is their last?  

The Baby Bulls are back....

by Knowledge32 on Nov 8, 2007 8:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It is calling them out
He's right though. And from a fan prospective, I like that he said what he did. But if I'm guy like Kirk or BG who have been around and carried the team and have that hardcore work ethic, and this rookie kid who is coming in late to practice and just picked up his playbook now is going to tell me I'm trying to do my own thing out there, I'm gonna have a problem with that.

by Hiryu on Nov 8, 2007 8:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you absolutely
CANNOT compare winning 2 college championships with winning the NBA title.  I'm sorry, but that's nowhere close to the same thing....2 totally different beasts

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 8, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2 very different things
Agreed. However, how many people have won an NBA championship and how many have won 2 Back to back NCAA Championships. Agreed that it is tough to compare the two. However, it is still quite an accomplishment for the young Rook.
The Baby Bulls are back....

by Knowledge32 on Nov 8, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, quite an accomplishment
but a COLLEGE accomplishment nonetheless.  He's in the pros now, so he should know, that he can't and shouldn't be comparing the two.

As I look back on his statements, I guess he was a little more right than what I first estimated...but I still think he needs to be quiet.

Just like KC and everyone else has already said, before speaking out on your team, at least learn the plays first.  You might come across with more validity if he had the playbook down pat.

That's like Eddy Curry trying to tell Ben Wallace how to play defense...sure he may have a good point, but nobody wants to hear you if you can't do it yourself yet

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 8, 2007 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love the Noah comments
This team needs a guy on the inside to tell em like it is, it's hard to keep hearing their coach say things when he's not playing.  

Noah's comments were right on and I respect him even more after he already had a solid first game (his game didn't show up as much in his stats).

I was hoping Big Ben would have done this for us last year and this year because of the fact that he can be scary and is big enough to be an intimitator/leader, but he never took that role (he still isn't a captain).

And currently our 2 captains (the too nice Deng) and the struggling Hinrich are 2 of our biggest problem-childs (not playing as well as they did last year when many thought they'd be better)....

I'm glad Noah spoke out, I'd make him a captain after those statements.  He's a player and a fan of the game, which is different from a lot of the NBA players who play the game but are less fans than money happy these days....I know that's a stereotype, but it is somewhat true in the NBA and all sports--and with the money they get who can blame 'em.

by majoyenrac on Nov 8, 2007 8:06 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

maybe I was the only one
(and I guess Chad) who kinda agreed with Skiles - http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/11/7/0402/94121#commenttop

I don't think he was ripping him for his content, it was just the timing of it all.  It's like come on youngster, this is your first real game, and you're just gonna call everyone out like that?  I like the kid, but there's a time to speak and a time to be quiet.

This wasn't his time to be stepping up and making comments like that yet.  At least get a few games under your belt first.

I can't believe it, but I totally agree with Skiles on this one.

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 8, 2007 8:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

comments
I don't have a problem with what Noah said. His assessment is probably right. But I do agree with Skiles in that while his meaning is "spot on", Noah does not have the credibility in his experience with the team to make those assessments publicly. He doesn't even know the plays. I wouldn't have blasted him in the media like Skiles did, but whatever. I'm having flashbacks of the Skyles vs. Chandler episodes. I'll be pissed if this turns into that again.

by Hiryu on Nov 8, 2007 8:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Noah is no Tyson Chandler. This kid is a born
leader. He's got the right attitude to succeed. But when you talk you have to back it up. I hope Noah proves that he is a legit. center skills wise so that he can give the Bulls a voice.
Also, maybe it's just me, but I'm still thinking the Bulls are just starting to gel as a team. For some reason they take longer to get all the players integrated than other teams. I actually like the fact that Skiles played his young guys significant minutes against the Clips even though he probably is as anxious to get that first win as everyone else. Skiles is showing confidence in the team, and thinking long term by getting ALL the members of this group to have a chance to play. Hell, he might even play Gray and Gardner one of these days. Call me crazy, but I think this Bulls team is gearing up for a long run at the end of this season!

by philosoball on Nov 8, 2007 9:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

They both should shut up.
Noah was circled by reporters and he trys to give an honest assessment but maybe Skiles went about it wrong also. I hate when the coaches use the media like that. Just go an talk to the kid. I hope this fuels the Bulls to stall the Pistons. Ha..ha.
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 9:59 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think
Joe hit the nail on the head with the losing comment.  Everybody, and I mean everybody, from the players to the coaches to the media to the fans is overly sensitive because of this 0-4 start.  

Who really cares who said it if the sentiment is true?  In all honesty it kinda scares me that a rookie came out and said it before any of the vets.  Noah wouldn't have had to speak up if Deng, Kirk, BG, Wallace, etc had stepped up first.  

by upther on Nov 8, 2007 10:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Actually, they have been saying similar things
Quotes from Lu, Kirk and BG haven't been as long as Noah's and haven't gotten the same press because of Skiles' reaction, but they've all been talking about needing to play together, play with more intensity, step up the defense, etc.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 8, 2007 10:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
I don't remember them saying ''their all in their own little worlds.'' Or ''we'll get them next time.'' That was some revealing info. If they don't really care well maybe they should have money taken out of their checks for being selfish and not doing their jobs. If they are just going through the motions it's time to find people who wana be here and that are mentally tougher.

It's just time to win and compete. It would be one thing if they played hard and played smart. They didn't though, they played in spurts and played dumb. Thats whats frustrating is that they aren't smart enough to over come their own problems.

With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 10:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

go back and look
they all said the same thing.  nobody made a big deal about it.  this a non story, kind of like the Tyrus "I am just in it for the money" moment last year.  there is nothing going on here.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 8, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yep
Spot on.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 8, 2007 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we aren't reading Noah's comments
the same way.  I don't read what he said as meaning the guys don't care or aren't trying to win.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 8, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what I get
For living in Florida and not being able to read the Chicago sports page very often.  

by upther on Nov 8, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Their all in the own little worlds?
I don't know but a win will make everyone forget.
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 11:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This has nothing to do with this post
other than it's Bulls related. http://youtube.com/watch?v=i6Qo0IPIZZc
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 11:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

KC posted
... on his blog about this thing, if anyone hasn't seen it yet:

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/

by Hiryu on Nov 8, 2007 11:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

KC
Is pretty dead on with his comments.  It's probably the media and us fans making a bigger deal out of this than it is.  It isn't like Noah went out and pointed fingers at anybody in particular.  

by upther on Nov 8, 2007 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really like KC.
He's a nerd.
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 12:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Says
The guy posting on an internet message board.  

by upther on Nov 8, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he's a nerd
that played college ball.  So what if it was Beloit College?

Plus, I think he worked for the Bulls years, and years ago in sales.  

by KT on Nov 8, 2007 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Says
... a guy who was once attacked by a jock with silly string.

by Hiryu on Nov 8, 2007 12:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but I'm a jock also.....
so it cancles out. Well ex-Jock.
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

whatever it's a basketball blog not a gamer blog
or something like that. He just seems so vanilla to me.
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 8, 2007 12:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He does seem a bit nerdy
but that's cool. Did anyone ever listen to the RedEye podcasts they had last year? He had more personality in those but the interviewers were horrible. The guy that replaced Chris Malcolm or whoever in the end when the bulls were on their way to elimination was clueless.

by Hiryu on Nov 8, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Skiles.. shut up Noah,
 and you too "John". No rookie is the voice of this ship. I answer only to Jerry and I'm a strong influence on all trades!

In 2005 during Skiles extention Skiles said.
"I wanted to have a man-to-man talk with the owner of my team."

"I'm really glad he's back," Paxson said. "This is a big thing for the franchise."
Previous reports had said that Skiles had turned down a four-year, $17 million offer.

"Obviously I wasn't that optimistic yesterday," Skiles said.
"If you consider the four principals  John, Jerry and (agent Keith Glass) and I
you are talking about four pretty strong-willed grown men."

Paxson said the news of Skiles' deal even took him by surprise.

"I'm not going to lie to you, the last couple of days I was thinking
we were not going to have him very long," he said.
"Let's give Scott credit, he obviously wants to be here."

Skiles has said he thinks the Bulls' success this season (47-35 in 2005-06) repaired his image.  

xxx

Skiles appears somewhat Postal, he seems like he would be a good coach for a freshmen high school team for a tough Chicago Public School.  Do you think the Ben Gordon and Deng's decision not to sign yet takes into consideration .. continued to be coach by this controlled freak dictator?

        (49-33 in 2006-07)
predict (44-38 in 2007-08)

A complicated arrangement, but Jerry will call for his resignation before John does.

by exult463 on Nov 8, 2007 1:50 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Bulls Locker Room
Noah "everyone's in the own little world"

There is more to this above statement! Maybe rephrased as ..

trying to escape from Skiles's world?

Probably all of the other player comformist, won't talk or communicate, except on the floor, because they are afraid Skiles will receive wind of conversation, and voice his rage against them to the media or internally to the team.  Control types do this!

Some say their is no character in the locker room, and these guys are boring!  Or afraid!  These guys can't even be friends?

by exult463 on Nov 8, 2007 2:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Point 2 of JoeJoe's post
Point 2:  Their two best players want mega millions...One of those players is not close to being their best.  According to Wages of Wins, Gordon is,at best, an average NBA player.  The mid-level exception would be plenty.  The dislocations he causes on defense are devestating.  The turnovers just crush rallies.  No amount of offense can overcome this.  The Bulls are constantly coming back from 15-20 points down.  And it all starts with Gordon.

by hlac on Nov 8, 2007 2:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Of course Gordon looks
barely average according to Wages of Wins, it's not very good metric.  Gordon has limitations, but he's above average by every other metric I've seen.  And his value to the Bulls' offense is certainly above-average.

The defensive dislocations are also not devastating.  Because Kirk is better fighting through off the ball, where he can be physical on defense.  The reason they're 15-20 points down has very little to do with backcourt defense.

by Scotter on Nov 8, 2007 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BUT, in
his mind he thinks he is the best player and thinks he deserves "best player" money. Evidently Pax doesn't think he is or he would have come back with a higher offer like he did with Lu. That to me says he has other plans for BG in the future.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 8, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well he is
our best player right now and has been.  Luol has the most potential, but there's no question about it that Ben Gordon's been our best player the past couple of years.

I hope by season end Luol fully takes that helm, because Luol has more all around skills than BG and is obviously taller, but until Luol becomes that go-to guy and plays hard all 4 qtrs (is effective in the 4th) I think you have to say Gordon is our best player.

I don't think BG's wrong in that assumption.

by majoyenrac on Nov 8, 2007 3:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't confuse
best scorer or best shooter, with best player.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 8, 2007 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

USUALLY
USUALLY, the guy who leads the team in scoring is considered the best player.

USUALLY

by Chad on Nov 8, 2007 4:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Usually
the best player has a complete game. BG does not but he is the best shooter on the team.
Racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

by sue369 on Nov 8, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fair point
I am just saying usually.

by Chad on Nov 8, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm definately not
I know Luol's got the most skills, but Gordon is our only consistent offensive threat (And now maybe we've got Joe Smith).

Luol rarely competes when the crunch time comes.  He's too gun shy...

Gordon clearly is our right now best player, but the other guys seem to have the ability to leap past him.  Kirk has more all around skills, but has never been consistent.  Luol obviously has more all around skills and solid numbers, but he gets the majority of those numbers in the first half......and until he brings it consistently at the end of games, I am going to say BG's our best player because he's the only guy who does anything down the stretch.

Who knows, it might all be a mute argument at the end of this year if Tyrus keeps it up.

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you're watching the games
BG hasn't done much down the stretch, especially this year.  So to base your best player ranking on that is wrong.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody's done much down the stretch
But Gordon's been the only guy TRYING to do much down the stretch.  It's hard for anyone to do well down the stretch when it's 3-4 on one....

The Bulls have been giving Gordon the ball and then standing there watching and hoping he'll magically do something while they wait for a rebound.

Luol hasn't moved at all in the 4th quarter, and thus Gordon's job has been magnified in its degree of difficulty.

I know in this post I didn't add that (cuz I've said it all over these boards).

Yes I've been watching and was at the end of my seat all of last night's game.  Man when Rip hit that little flipper towards the end of the game putting us up by 1 (impossible shot by the way) I thought that was it we were going to find a way to lose.

Thank God yesterday Joe Smith and Tyrus Thomas starting moving towards the end of hte game.  I know Tyrus took a 10-15 footer late in the 4th on a pass from a triple covered BG.....and while Tyrus missed the shot, it was nice to see that at least someone was moving.

I think Skiles should try to keep Joe Smith out there to close the games, because I'm tired of Kirk, and Luol putting on their "It's BG time" faces and trying to look for the rebounds.  Gordon can't do it all, and hell if Jordan played to close out games with 4 stiffs who did nothing but watch him move with the ball, he likely wouldn't be much more than a Gilbert Arenas kind of player (a guy who can get streaky and score, but one who wouldn't be ridiculously effective all the time).  Jordan always had a few guys who would move without the ball.  Gordon so far this year hasn't had that (I'm not saying BG's got anything on MJ), but Gordon's been forced to be the sole offense guy while everyone else puts their entire focus on trying to grab a rebound....our drive and kick offense has been shut down in the clutch.  Perhaps that'll go away now that we've got the burden of our first win behind us....if it doesn't we're in trouble because I don't want to have Tyrus and Joe Smithe be our second and 3rd scoring options to close out games.  I'd be much happier if it was Gordon then Luol and then Hinrich, or even Luol then Gordon then Hinrich......

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 12:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll rephrase
maybe you should watch the game you are watching.  BG doesn't seem to be able to do anything with the ball other than shoot.  That's the biggest reason he has been so ineffective down the stretch recently.  If other teams had to respect the pass or the drive, he'd get easier shots, but they don't.  Hinrich took shots down the stretch, he missed them, but he also got other guys involved.  The ball being in BG's hands at the end of the game is due to the fact that that's the play Skiles called.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt
Skiles' play is give Ben Gordon the ball at the top of the key and have the other 4 guys stand their motionless looking at the backboard thinking rebound.

That's not a play, and if that is the play Skiles is calling, then it's an awful play.

The other guys haven't done much as far as moving without the ball late in games.  Hinrich tried to get it going a bit, but even when he has it, he's been forced to be the only guy moving and he's been trying to hit layups (which are going up like bricks).

Other teams don't have to respect Gordon's pass when nobody is moving.  It doesn't help that Gordon's not the best ball handler, but it doens't help him either when no one else is doing anything.

Luol needs to step up in the 4th, this is his 4th year already, while he's young in age, he can't be a teams top player if he doesn't want to be that guy in the clutch.  He might be our best skilled player, but he's not yet our best.

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's an awful play
precisely because BG can't create a decent shot (and Noc forgets to role to the basket).  For other guys who can create their own shot, it's not such a bad play call.  Isolation is still a staple in the NBA and if BG thinks he should be getting bigger contract offers, he needs to excel in those types of situations.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 2:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
But I doubt Skiles is relying on BG for isolation every play every game.  On occasion it could work, but even guys like Wade, Allen etc. can't rely on isolation every game.

Gordon's not a good enough ball handler to be effective at iso plays (or at least with exclusive iso plays) and the Bulls appear to be running them the last 4-5 minutes of every game exclusively....

That leads me to believe that it's the players fault around Gordon, not Skiles' coaching.  

I mean Skiles was a solid PG, he can see Ben's strenghts and weaknesses as a ball handler probably better than most of us, I doubt he's telling the other 4 guys to stand around and have Ben run an iso play.  I bet you the iso play develops because the drive and kick game ends (since no one is moving) and Ben's forced to try to go one on one to at least attempt getting a chance for points or a foul.

The end of game freeze-ups for the Bulls have hurt us more than lapses of effort.

I just can't think that the end of game issues are all on Gordon when he's one of the few who have been consistently aggressive in the 4th for us.

by majoyenrac on Nov 9, 2007 3:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

can't have it both ways
if he's the best player, then he should get the ball in those situations.  Are you saying it's the teams fault he isn't playing well?  The plays are designed to get him the shots.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 3:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying he can have it both ways
I'm saying the obvious right now Gordon's our best player.....there are plenty of guys who have more upside and talent (Deng, Tyrus, maybe even Kirk), but Tyrus is too young still to take the throne, and while Deng has improved, his confidence makes him unable to take the thrown, and Hinrich's never seemed to want to be our main guy.

Deng should be our best player, he's our most skilled and ready for the big time player, but he doesn't really have the "it" factor at the end of hte games.

Gordon has no fear at the end of the games, and thus he still is our best player, even while we have another more capable player in Deng.  

I'm also saying that our guys spend their time watching Gordon too much instead of helping him out.  Having 2-3 guys on Gordon at clutch time, while having the other 4 Bulls stand there allowing themselves to have 1 opponent cover 2 guys is ridiculous.

Hopefully that's what the coaching staff is showing the team, it's a bad tendency that we've had and we really need to break.

by majoyenrac on Nov 10, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The best player
is the guy who's playing the best.  That's not BG.  I'd say it is probably Tyrus right now, or maybe even Joe Smith.  But it isn't BG, or Kirk or Loul.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 11, 2007 9:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we'll see what happens as the season progresses
Your argument is also a bit flawed, let's say Duhon pulls together 3-4 nice games, are you going to say he's the best player on this team?

Or let's say suddenly Nocioni has a tear and goes for 3-4 straight 25 pt outtings, are you going to hail him as our best player?

I think past history here still gives BG the call as our best player, he's just in a poor stretch.  

I would love to see Tyrus and Luol take him over....and who knows if Gordon continues at his pace, Joe Smith, Tyrus, and Andres Nocioni will all rank higher, but Gordon's always started off slow no matter his great summer seasons...

by majoyenrac on Nov 12, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Much ado about nothing
"That's the kind of thing that makes someone like me not really like most [reporters] to be honest," Skiles said. "I said it in a very light-hearted manner, just taking a little jab at the rookie. So I had to call Joakim this morning and make it perfectly clear that I want him to say whatever he wants to say. I love his personality. And really for one of the first times since I've been here, I felt I was treated unfairly [by the media]."

There's no story there, other than what our very own Jay Mariotti (that's you, joejoe) wants to see.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 9, 2007 8:13 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yeah
Of course he's going to say that now. The video shows different that he seemed pissed. Like I said at the bottom get a win and it all goes away!
With the first pick in the 2008 NBA draft the Chicago Bulls select Derrick Rose 6'4 guard Memphis bye bye Kirk!

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 9, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care if Skiles is just covering ass
My "favorite" columnists Jay Mariotti and Steve Rosenbloom both made a huge deal out of it, and even if Skiles is just saying this to smooth things over I love that he's calling them out.
"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Nov 9, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The rookie hath spaketh...
...the rookie says no one played urgently. "Everyone" bitches. The teams plays extra-urgently next time out. Whoa!
Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Nov 9, 2007 8:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

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