Bulls-Hawks winning thoughts

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 27, 2007 11:03 PM CST in News Comment 85 comments

Well, in the first half it looked like nothing changed. Hinrich was playing terrible, the team wasn't getting to the line (2 foul shots, and those were from Noah with a minute left in the half), and they shot 33%. I thought the team in general was attacking the basket plenty, they were just getting their shots continually blocked, and likely fouled (but nothing too egregious to cry about the free-throw discrepancy). Luckily the Hawks were shooting even lower than that, so the Bulls had a meager lead going into the half.

But then the Bulls followed that 34(!) point half with a 36 point 3rd quarter. Keeping the lid on the Hawks at the same time, they more-or-less pulled away from there.

First to the goat: Kirk Hinrich. He was in more mope-mode than usual, going 2-7 in the first half and culminating his awful performance on a blown breakaway attempt where instead of just getting a layup he passed the ball backwards fifteen feet to a not-ready Noah. That was the high-water mark for the boos in the game, and after picking up his 4th foul (and doing the patented Iowhine) he was benched for the rest of the game (finishing with a -8). Chris Duhon played the rest of the half (26 minutes overall) and did so admirably, just by doing enough to keep Hinrich on the bench. So credit to Duh, and credit to Skiles for keeping Duh in. Never thought I'd type that.

But back to the rest of that 3rd quarter, yet another slap in the face to those who doubt the Wallace-Thomas frontcourt. With those two supposed non-factors (and Duhon, not exactly an offensive whiz), they still had 36 points. I saw Tyrus make one real bad jumpshot attempt in the first half, but besides that he was attacking either by taking shots in rhythm or just bearing down towards the basket. It doesn't look pretty but this team needs it. Had his usual dose of highlight-plays, but also made a couple jumpers and showed some nice passing skills, both out of a post-up position and a ridiculous (both the good and bad meaning) one on the break to Luol Deng. Both he and Wallace had 12 rebounds (8 offensive) and as a team the Bulls waxed the Hawks on the boards. With so many missed shots, there were certainly plenty of opportunities.

(And one final thought on Tyrus, after his brilliant 3rd quarter (yes, he managed to stay in the whole quarter), he never came back out on the court. Granted the game was in hand, but it wasn't that much in hand. And why not give the kid some free run? )

And as is usually the key with any victory, Luol and Gordon shot the ball well. Hey, turns out it can happen. Maybe one day Kirk will join the fun too.

The win doesn't mean much (especially since the Hawks looked awful), but it's better than a loss festering until playing Charlotte on Saturday. Seeing Wallace and Thomas dominating for a whole quarter warmed my heart enough to forget that awful first half, but it was still out there, so the switch isn't fully turned on yet for this team.

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I really want to see Tyrus...

...on the floor with Noah, who played incredibly well tonight. Yeah, his offense isn't there in any way, shape or form, but he's so active defensively and on the boards, he makes a lot of stuff happen. I seriously think his 2nd quarter play inspired Tyrus in third, because he was just lollygagging throughout most of the 1st quarter. Put em together, it's like mixin' vodka and milk.

by BenGo07 on Nov 27, 2007 11:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ever try an

ice cream brandy alexander?

Yeah, Noah just needs PT and patience, because it could take a while before he adjusts to the NBA game on the offensive end. He looks like more than just an effort guy to me; like he really knows how to play the game, if that simplification makes sense.

by marionette on Nov 28, 2007 1:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Hawks really did look awful

They pretty much quit playing any semblance of defense in the second half, so I'm not sure if the Bulls were playing well or if the Hawks were just bad. Josh Smith in particular pretty much quit trying; I think he got benched early in the 3rd for one terrible sequence.

That first half was absolutely awful basketball, though. Hinrich has got to have the worst body language of any professional athlete I've ever seen. Normally I'd be the first to dismiss those type of theories, but when he's playing this bad you have to wonder. The atmosphere in the UC was just ugly after that terrible pass on the breakaway. I bashed Duhon as much as anyone the past two years, but he's playing better than Hinrich right now. I'm glad the Bulls won, but if they had been playing anyone other than the Hawks they would have been down by 20 or 30 points at halftime, so I don't know if they've "solved" anything yet.

by Big D on Nov 27, 2007 11:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I will dismiss the theory

and simply say that Hinrich's body language is because of his shitty play, his shitty play is not because of his body language.

I agree on Josh Smith, I should've mentioned him. He made a three-pointer early and it was a blessing because you knew he'd keep shooting outside. And even with 6 blocks, there were times where Wallace was doing his wind-up-and-dunk routine and Smith just stood there instead of fouling him.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 27, 2007 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Josh Smith

Josh Smith demonstrated last night that he has a very low basketball IQ. Not fouling Ben Wallace on wide open dunks is one example. Not stepping into the paint to deny the cutting screener is another.

The Bulls gave him wide open shots all night. How many times did he get it from 19 feet and away with no Bull within 8 feet of him? If he makes those wide open shots it may excuse the defensive lapses.

I was begging for Kirk to argue some his calls to get tossed.

by NBA Observer on Nov 28, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich's Body Language

gets a bad rap. How he walks, his posture and his personal style are just not the same as, say, Chauncey Billups, who is of a similar height. (Interesting thought: Billups is listed as 6'3" and is considered a tall guard; Hinrich and Gordon are listed at 6'3" and are considered small guards. But I digress.)

But with Kirk, he just wears his shorts baggy, and walks like a slacker. In fact, his messy hair and unshaven look also support that uber slacker image. I believe that this affects how he's perceived by refs and by potential corporate sponsors (total conjecture of course).

And I think this is unfair to Kirk, in the same way that African Americans with corn rows or too many tattoos are perceived as somehow bad guys.

Kirk has always carried himself this way. If you do a Youtube search for "Kirk Hinrich high school dunk" one of the videos is like 3 minutes long, complete with dunks in traffic, tip dunks, flashy behind-the-back dishes, and even a mini-interview where he talks about how winning the state championship was a dream come true. Notable throughout is the same unusual posture, sagging shorts and self-deprecating manner that are (this season more than ever) perceived as poor body language.

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 29, 2007 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree Kirk shows his frustrations...

But I think the reason he's getting into foul trouble is entirely Kirk's doing and has nothing to do with the refs. He's been a step slow all year so far, and hasn't seemed to have any confidence....

I never really hear anything about Billups being a tall guard, I hear him being a big guard who can post other guards up.....Billups is a pretty big guy and that gives him strength etc that Kirk's body type will never have.

Kirk just needs to start playing like Kirk. He always starts off the year slow (as does our team) but this year he's been crazy-bad. I keep posting this on this site (it's like my 3rd straight post with the same info on how bad Kirk is) so I'll stop now and apologize for the repetition, but I had to say it here since I was responding to your post...

by majoyenrac on Nov 29, 2007 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Majoyenrac, I think that's absolutely right.

On all counts. After I posted that, I thought, you actually do hear Billups called a 'big guard' and not a tall one.

By the way, I heard yet another theory of Kirk's woes this season, which is that there are some guys who are gym rats, who can hone their game for like 4 hours a day over and above mandatory team practices. But when the schedules don't allow for it (such as when one gets married and is expected to spend quality time with the better half), there just isn't enough time to be that reclusive gym rat anymore. That and, it can be really scary to go through the radical life change of getting married.

Anyway, here's that youtube video I alluded to earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0E2j9y8J84

(Anyone know what song this is by the way? And no, that's not what I meant by Hinrich getting a "bad rap").

By the way, Majoyenrac, just my opinion, but I don't think you need to apologize for decent, enjoyable posts. We're all in this together, and if we censored ourselves too much, half of the really interesting ideas probably would never get posted.

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 29, 2007 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

really?

the 'kirk got married' excuse?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 29, 2007 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls win

Now need to get past .500
Nocioni needs to elbow more faces.

youtube.com/angryasianace

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 28, 2007 12:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nocioni getting dogged

Word is out. Players are targeting Nocioni. Josh Smith and Joe Johnson were both talking shit to Noc all night. I'm pretty certain this is why Josh Smith was T'd up in the 3rd quarter. He was talking to Noc down the floor after a Bulls defensive rebound.

by NBA Observer on Nov 28, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That was Johnson.

After he got fouled by Noc he started yapping at him and got a T. Smith's was for following a ref down the floor after he didn't get a call.

by CrashDavis on Nov 28, 2007 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know who Skiles was delivering

the message to about running the floor, but it looked like noah received it. I saw him first up the floor in transition a number of times.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Nov 28, 2007 12:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

they didn't turn the corner

they just beat up on a bad team. it's what teams have been doing to the Bulls lately. If they want to turn the corner, they have to (and I know this is vague) play like they did against the Heat last year, consistantly. It's still possible (albiet unlikely) to have a 50 win season, but it's also possible to have a lottery trip. It's in the player's hands. And Hinrich needs to not suck.

Lottery Bound Horribulls. the bulls are tanking: http://www.blogabull.com/story/2007/11/19/31557/687

by hongydraw on Nov 28, 2007 12:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Stats like 24 offensive

rebs confirm what I witnessed: the team played with ferocity!

I loved that Thabo was first off the bench, and Duhon never paired w/ Hinrich. In fact, he didn't enter until 3:19 left in the 1st half. Noc too entered later (21min) than usual. This was probably just Skiles matching up, but at least he did it this once!

Comcast halftime poll was "Will it be better shooting or better defense the leads Bulls out of tailspin" and it was 70% shooting vs 30% defense, but I thought the fans got it exactly wrong. This team MUST be top 2 in opp FG% to win, what with being a jump shooting team and all. After seeing the effort in the 2nd Q, I thought, "They're not gonna let ATL get 60 tonight"! And the thought occurred that the stifling D would lead to better shooting, which DID happen in the 2nd half.

But the point you make re ATL is a good one. They are a reflection of their "leader", Joe Johnson. A game like this makes him and his blank on court demeanor seem an NBA tragedy. Even without a PG, they're truly capable of beating anybody (DAL/PHX so far), but they look lottery bound. And that takes some of the fun out winning this.

by marionette on Nov 28, 2007 12:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah but I'm not surprised Shooting won

because we are LAST in ppg and FG%. If our shooting had been in the least bit better, NJ, Milwaukee, Philly, and NY are all probably wins. We went the last 4 minutes without a FG against NY which is inexcusable.

Yes our defense needs to improve, but our FG% is just miserable.

by Jaina on Nov 28, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a couple...

... more similar hinrich/duhon performances like tonight will have the fickle chicago fans calling for duhon to (gulp) crack the starting lineup. myself included.

and who woke up ben wallace?

by leeac on Nov 28, 2007 1:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe benching

Kirk last night is be the best thing to happen to him. If he doesn't turn it around soon I don't know what to think.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 28, 2007 6:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Another look

It would be incorrect to merely state that Kirk was benched. He benched himself. He played very poorly in the first half that I thought was the opportune time for Skiles to bench him. Kirk was playing with 3 fouls, yet Skiles still had him out there.

When Kirk picked up his fourth foul early in the third Skiles had to take him out of the game. Skiles could have benched him for poor play, bad turnovers, and lackluster defense, but he snoozed and waited for fouls to take him out.

by NBA Observer on Nov 28, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles gives Kirk way too much leeway...

...even to the point of hurting the team. Somehow he seems to get away with much more than Tyrus, Ben G, Big Ben etc. While he has been a steady contributor over the last few seasons, it certainly doesn't seem like fair treatment.

by bullsfaninbigapple on Nov 28, 2007 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He benched him for the second half last night

is that tough enough for you? Do you watch the games?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 28, 2007 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well done guys...

Well done...

by withmalice on Nov 28, 2007 6:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich is terrible

I couldn't believe his play last night. I'm tired of people blaming BG for Hinrichs play . Several fouls Kirk made where inexcusable for a 5 year veteran "leader" and when he should take a hard foul he lets childress put him on a poster. There were at least three or four times he missed the buls big men inside open. Its no coincidence the bulls played their best ball when he was on the bench. Our best players Deng and BG often force shots because Hinrich doesn't really move the ball around on offense. He either dribbles in place for 8 to 13 seconds or he takes long open jumpers that teams are daring him to shoot. I'd like to see him come off one of those screen rolls and go right to the basket. He usually has an open path right to the rack. I don't think you should trade him because his value is at a low around the league right now. I just find it amazing how a guard who can't set up his teamates, create his own shot, and has little to no handle was deemed untradable. Somebody please explain that one to me. Everyone had to notice how much more effective all the bulls players were with Kirk off the floor.

by Blacknight23 on Nov 28, 2007 7:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

What is going on with Kirk?

I mean the guy had been pretty good every year up until this year. He'd have an off game here or there, but was pretty solid, near borderline all star caliber, a member of the all defensive 2nd team, a nice leader, a guy who can get you 15-16 pts, 6-7 assists, and run the offense well, and mostly defend his butt off.

He seems to be the weakest link on our team right now, and it's just so strange for a guy who prior to this year seemed to just love playing basketball and especially in Chicago?

I wonder what the hell's wrong with him.

I've been down on Skiles a bit, but it was nice to see him finally jab a bit at Kirk when he said when they asked him about Duhon's PG play something along the lines (I'm paraphrasing from what I remember him saying) "yeah for 7 or 8 minutes out there we finally had some decent point guard play"....

It's so true, I'd hate to see Duhon in our starting lineup (Especially with a very talented Kirk Hinrich on the bench) but the way Kirk's been playing, I don't know how much longer we can keep this up. It's very puzzling. Kirk rarely used to go more than 2 games in a rut, and yet he's been in a rut these first 13 games.....and you can't say well he's doing this now because he's getting paid more since he already had locked in this deal last year.

I don't understand why when our guys suddenly get paid a lot of cash in Chicago lately they start to suck (Chandler was awful in 2005-2006) and now Kirk has been a million times worse so far this year.....and while Big Ben hasn't been solid so far this year, he was at least decent last year and has had a few good games this year and maybe now is over that ankle injury and his mopey ways....

We need Kirk to be competitive, he's our glue guy and when he's not playing well, we're hardly the team we thought we'd have this season.

I mean in the 4th Quarter and late 3rd quarter, Duhon's success started to slow and we really couldn't do anything out there. Duhon's not the answer.

by majoyenrac on Nov 28, 2007 7:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Skiles never

used the word "finally" in his remark about the Du's point guard play. Here's what Skiles said.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071127bullsgamer,1,7562254.story? coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 28, 2007 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I think Skiles implied

that we have not had much decent point guard play.

by Tim S. on Nov 28, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To each his own.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 28, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Best thing about this game is we didn't lose and

Option27 won his $100 bet, Bulls -6. Second best was Noah impacting the game. Worst was Hinrich. Dampening my entusiasm is Atlanta was pathetic. Atlanta looked like they decided they would lose the game and didn't show up to play.

If we beat Charlotte on Saturday I'm looking forward to the Dallas game next Monday. That will be a test to see if this team really is on the way back or got a reprieve via playing two terrible teams.

by chgobr on Nov 28, 2007 9:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHA!

Thanks chgobr! It's funny cause I was so wasted last night and got home and watched it on my TIVO. After the 1st half, I didn't think the bet would hold with the way they were playing so I even got more wasted....then I passed out.

I just saw the score this morning. It was hella great!

by Option27 on Nov 28, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Noah impacting game?

I don't know. I just don't know. I see hussle, height, and youth in Noah, but nothing else. In the powerforward position, the bulls need someone strong with an offensive mind. We do not have that. I just don't see Noah helping the bulls achieve the goals the bulls have for this season, and because of that, he cannot be a regular during competition.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Nov 28, 2007 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nuts!

The Promise is rocking the Energy

Curry has gotten off to a productive start after being assigned to the Iowa Energy by the Chicago Bulls. The 51st overall pick in the 2007 Draft out of Oklahoma State, Curry is averaging 24.0 points and 6.5 assists over his first two D-League games. The expansion Energy have burst out of the gate after sweeping the defending champion Dakota Wizards in Bismarck and winning their home opener over the Thunderbirds on Monday night. Iowa will be at home this week to take on the Colorado 14ers and the Fort Wayne Mad Ants.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Nov 28, 2007 9:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

yuh

we know

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 28, 2007 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

damn

I forgot redundancy in comments/diaries was highly frowned upon, even if it is short and meaningless.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Nov 28, 2007 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Finally a constructive suggestion to correct Bulls

woes. Bring up James-on and send down Hinrich.

by chgobr on Nov 28, 2007 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know you're not entirely serious

but as an FYI, only first and second-year players can be sent to the D-League.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 28, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Try to do it anyway.

Maybe nobody will notice.

by Steveo on Nov 28, 2007 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol send hinrich down

That's the most ridiculous thing I have heard this year. I guess losing makes people looney. As much as I would love to get rid of the hiccup we need him. This is where I feel Skiles should be held accountable Kirks progression. He seems worse than even his rookie year. He can get to the rim if he attacked it. The missed threes can't continue at this pace. Even his on man defense has regressed. It is often said a pg is an extention of the head coach so this is on skiles. Skiles could have benched Kirk (his favorite motivational tactic) but never has even last night was more a byproduct of his foul troubles and duhons excellant play. I wish Skiles would fine Kirk everytime he argues with the refs or throws his mouthpice. But realistically If we are to keep or trade Kirk we need him to play better simple as that. He's not going to be replaced by a 2nd rounder currently ripping up the d-league. Seriously.

by Blacknight23 on Nov 28, 2007 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why not look at

Jamario Moon. I'd send Hinrich ass to the D-league.

by Steveo on Nov 28, 2007 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hinrich- no start.

bench him. start duhon. have hinrich prove he belongs on the court. right now he doesn't belong on the court, and is only there because his salary would crack the pine bench in half.

oh, skiles message was clear in the second 1/2.

by chicago-homesick-blues on Nov 28, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree bench him a few games

Look the old Kirk was a star athlete, maybe not quite an all star, but someone you wouldn't be shocked if they made a token all star appearance someday....

But right now the guy's awful and his head seems out of the game....it's weird for someone who's had a great rap as a gym rat guy and someone who was rewarded with a nice contract the season before last and still played well last year...

I mean we bench Gordon for far better showings than Kirk's giving us lately.

I don't want to fire sale Kirk, I do think he has to come around eventually, but why not let him figure things out in a more reduced role....giving Kirk big minutes now isn't helping us. I do think when Kirk's on his game he's a top 5-7 PG in the league (or at least he was coming into this year). He's not a pure point, sure, but he does a lot of little things and defends better than any of them (or did).

I just don't know what his problem is this year.....he seems mental.

by majoyenrac on Nov 28, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

CHECK OUT MY BLOG GUYS!

http://sixttimes.blogspot.com/

by Steveo on Nov 28, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well now we know

what happened to joejoe. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 28, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if...

a blog is written, but nobody reads it, is it still a blog?...

by leeac on Nov 28, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh

I'm just glad to not have to write another freaking haiku. Its not easy to distill your thoughts into 17 syllables, though it does force you to make one succinct point, which wouldn't be a bad exercise for some posters.

That first have was laughably bad. I watched the 2nd half of Warriors-Suns from Monday night immediately before this game. What a difference! Those guys looked like pros, the Bulls-Hawks looked like a rec league.

Still, the 3rd quarter was encouraging, despite the fact that the Hawks stayed laughably bad all game.

As I told my buddy who was advocating making a trade and tanking, we've SEEN this team run a tight, disciplined offense with good sets, ball movement, and spacing. Its not a far-fetched fantasy to expect them to get back to that.

Whatever is happening in the locker roon will hopefully blow over, and these "winners" will remember that if you just play a team game and win, the rest will take care of itself.

Haiku strike is OVER. Crystal ball foresees 44-38 record, with a strong January to right the ship.

by preverbal on Nov 28, 2007 12:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Haikus for you

the season is saved
bulls routed lowly hawks and
hongy is sorry

jaina don't you fret
he can't talk yet because his
name is preverbal

don't think too much though
majoyenrac? strange name
bullhockey is too

matt lets us play til
H S C S puts an end
to our haiku fun

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 29, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

awesome!

I made the haiku!

by Jaina on Nov 29, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade Hinrich for

Anderson Varejao another energy guy. They Bulls could have a team of energy.

by Steveo on Nov 28, 2007 12:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

JoeJoe

I'm glad you started a blog, let us know about it, and I hope that everyone checks it out.

But you can't come back yet. Or at least don't make it so obvious that it's you.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 28, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you ban him or something?

by Option27 on Nov 28, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

Knicks game casualty

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 28, 2007 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

I'm speechless.

How this slipped by me, I don't know but that one was special

by Option27 on Nov 28, 2007 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

I didn't catch that either.

Probably because I did not even want to commiserate much after that Knicks fiasco.

You've always been hard on poor joejoe.

Haiku strike is OVER. Crystal ball foresees strong January to right ship and put Bulls over .500. Is crystal ball smoking crack?

by preverbal on Nov 28, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Johnson the new Stephon Marbury

Joe doesn't have the attitude, yet. He already has the same game. Get the ball, dribble around, maybe try and post up, pull back, pass it out or shoot, pray you get fouled.

I guess I need to watch some more Hawks games because they just look awful against Chicago. In the first half there were countless opportunities for the Hawks to run away with the game. Even with a starting lineup of J Johnson-SG, A Johnson-PG, J Smith-SF, M Williams-PF, and Horford-C they opened the game 13-4. They went downhill from there. Even when Hinrich leaves with 2 fouls they traded buckets. I think it was key here that Thabo was the first sub and not Duhon. Duhon would have made left the same matchup problem on Joe Johnson. Thabo's entry took away Joe Johnson's low post game forcing Atlanta to create passing lanes to get high percentage shots.

by NBA Observer on Nov 28, 2007 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Seemed like the only time Horford touched the ball last night was when he got a rebound. It would be interesting to see what he could do on a less selfish team. He already looks like one of the better rebounders in the league.

by Big D on Nov 28, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way . . .

I don't know if anyone linked this yet or not but Luol updated his blog

by Option27 on Nov 28, 2007 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He does seem upset about their play -

which is a good sign.

by chgobr on Nov 28, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

David Thorpe on Noah

In his rookie report:

Just watch the Bulls play, see how hard Joakim Noah competes every second.

Noah is not just "an energy guy," but the energy he provides is tangible. He's really good as a shot-blocker on his own man, which is rare for a rookie (most tend to get help blocks because they are easier). I also watched him make a two-handed steal on a Hawks ball handler in transition. For every offensive rebound he gets, he keeps three others alive. If he would just learn to slow down in the paint with the ball and maintain his balance, he'd be a scoring threat and an important cog for the offensively challenged Bulls. He's already making a difference defensively and in the paint.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 28, 2007 1:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

His report is dead on....

Noah is doing lots of little things that are actually showing up to some extent on the stat line....

I wish he'd just take it easy more on offense instead of trying to force things...that's his biggest weakness. He's a much much much better defender than I ever gave him credit for and he will be a nice addition to our team (and should really get some good PT now as he's proven his play far outweighs his offensive issues).

Hell I'd take Noah already over Varejao, and I liked Varejao's energy...

by majoyenrac on Nov 29, 2007 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Things I Learned From This Game

Nothing. It was still almost all jump shots that if we miss, we lose. I've never doubted that Thomas and Wallace would be a good team upfront for defensive purposes and we can get away with that if Gordon is hitting threes and Deng is hitting mid range jumpers. But when they're not, it gets ugly, as seen in pretty much every other game this season.

by JSlakov on Nov 28, 2007 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

hinrich vs duhon

hinrich is better than duhon, but duhon is playing better than hinrich. i say go with duhon, kirk is not getting it done right now, he seems lost and frustrated, and it's hurting the rest of the guys when he is out there. there just seems to be a better flow when duhon is on the court. dont get me wrong, there will be that same flow once kirk finds his game, but for right now, duhon seems to be the best option.
it was nice to see the bulls play their game for once. i love when our d is playing with intensity and passion. wallace, noah, and tyrus looked great. i especially love when you can tell the other team is so frustrated by our d, they want to call it a night in the middle of the 3rd quarter, and that's exactly what the hawks did last night.

also, i would love it if the bulls traded for joe johnson. i think he would be a nice fit

by Conor on Nov 28, 2007 1:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Another link

About the kids hating Skiles

by Option27 on Nov 28, 2007 2:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

This was posted

here yesterday.

http://www.blogabull.com/comments/2007/11/26/0230/5133/117#117

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 28, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Query: Why the hell is Hinrich

commiting useless fouls? The Bulls certainly can't afford it as they need more offense and not tougher defense. Surely Skiles tells Kirk that he doesn't want him getting in early foul trouble. Is Kirk going through some unresolved teenage issues? Is he taking the matchups with bigger (better) guards personally? I hope he realizes his role as an All-Second Team defender is completely overshadowed by the need for his offense. Why does he try to block shots everytime another guard tries a jumpshot? Does he actually think he will block them? This guy needs to understand his role and his limitations - like Clint said.

by philosoball on Nov 28, 2007 7:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I also noticed Kirk extending his arm and hand out and towards the jump shooter more this season which is leading to the foul trouble. He knows he's not going to block this shot so I guess he's trying to get a hand in the shooter's face, but this is un-Kirklike.

Last season Kirk was keeping pace with shooting guards by staying in front of them forcing them into fadeaway jumpers. This season shooters are getting space and elevating straight up in the air to get above any extended reach from Hinrich.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't particularly care about Hinrich's

poor shooting.

Hinrich's shooting mattered when the Bulls didn't have any offense coming from the front court...and didn't plan on having any offense come from the front court. Wallace and PJ got zero post plays run for them; Luol's job was simply to pick up the trash around the basket or run around pick after pick until he finally lost his man in the shuffle.

Not so anymore. The team actually has an intention to get the ball in the post to Tyrus, and also to get Luol deep enough position to post his defender.

Kirk is completely unsuited for this task. Neither he nor Duhon is a particularly skilled point guard, but the one thing Duhon does better than Kirk has become the thing the Bulls now require from their point guard. There has been a subtle shift in the type of offense the Bulls are trying to run this year, and it pretty much leaves Kirk out in the cold.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Nov 29, 2007 9:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kirk can't make an entry pass?

And if they're going to a post-driven offense, that makes Kirk worthwhile as he is a good outside shooter (in theory)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 29, 2007 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk's problem

is that he can't pass any better than I can. Yes, he has the potential to give you a little bit of scoring, but any good PG has to be at least a little slick with the ball, and Kirk has no finesse in him. There's a reason the team has played better behind Duhon this year. Part of it is that Duhon has slightly better, though still not great by any means, point guard skills. It also looks to me as though Kirk is fighting himself on the court.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Nov 29, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You might notice this

Duhon is a better passer when he is dribbling and moving. In particular, he is a lot better at passing on the move when he is using dribble penetration to get to the rim. When stationary, Duhon's passing really drops off and his turns it over more.

Hinrich's passing declines when he tries to make passes on the move while dribbling. He's a better passer when he is stationary. The one exception here is the passing on the pick and roll/pop.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting. If what you say

is true, then it's in line with something that's frustrated me about Kirk for years: I don't believe he even sees the openings that other point guards routinely make passes through. Yes, he's tough, aggressive, willing to take a shot...all good things in a pro athlete. He just lacks the essential skills required of an NBA point guard.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Nov 29, 2007 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what are those skills, exactly?

because it seems to me they include: passing better than you, and some vague statement about being "slick."

There are plenty of successful point guards who are/were unconventional, and Hinrich isn't an oddball at the position. Shooters like Cassell, Billups, and Parker don't resemble the Cousy-Kidd-Stockton 'True' Point Monster. Gary Payton doesn't really fit that mold either.

Hinrich has proven to be far more productive as a point guard than a shooting guard, and that's good enough to define a position.

Officially a hater on Ballhype!

by hscs on Nov 29, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Same problems at Kansas

Kirk has the same problem at Kansas. Yes, it was college, but Kansas had an established point guard in Jeff Boeschee that moved to the bench and sometimes to SG to make room for Kirk to start at PG as a freshman.

The Kirk Kansas teams were good, but they never won it all despite having really solid talent around him.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this thread

keeps getting better and better.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 29, 2007 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, Frank Williams whooped his ass!

why didn't we keep him? And Mike Wilks.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 29, 2007 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

somewhere

Frank Williams is having lunch with Mike Sweetney.

by KT on Nov 29, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

speaking of body language

Frank Williams always looked like a guy who didn't give a crap when playing. At Illinois I just figured he wasn't a traditional college floor-slapper (and good for him), cared and just didn't 'show' it, and he'd be fine in the NBA.

But then it turned out that yeah, he really was just a lazy dude.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 29, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ditto

We watched the same Frank Williams. Seemed like a lot of guys I play ball with that only bring the energy when you rip on them, challenge them, or belittle their game.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You had to question a guy

whose patented "go to" move was the off-speed drive. And it actually worked for him--he was so slow on the drive that just by doing his regular dribble penetration, anticipating shot-blockers would fly by, allowing him to casually lay the ball in.

Then when things didn't work out for him in New York, he actually got a second shot at a productive time in the league and totally pissed it away. Talk about your frustrating players.

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 29, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Kirk Kansas team in 2002-2003

was pretty damn good when they demolished my Golden Eagles.....they just matched up against the unstoppable in college Carmello Anthony and couldn't get it done.

I'd hardly knock Kirk on that, he single handily destroyed my alma mater in the final four.....D. Wade looked like a minor and it was actually one of the most depressing moments of my life (I was at Major Goolsby's in Milwaukee with a bunch of Marquette'ers and everyone was going crazy excited and within 2 minutes of the game the whole bar went crazy and Kirk was the main driver).

Kirk's been a solid pick and player for the Bulls thus far. He's in a rough patch right now (very rough) but I'm not about to say that he hasn't been a top tier PG in the past for us. I think he'll get his game back.

Sure he's not the passer than Kidd or Paul are, and he doesn't have the offensive awareness of a Parker or Deron Williams, but he had a solid all around game.

If Kirk was playing like himself and we really had a true inside scorer, Kirks stats would be much better. He's been a very smart player, very very very good defender, nice scorer, good leader (all until this year).....if he had a Gasol, etc or if Curry could have stayed and learned to hold onto the ball/defend/rebound and not been a huge liability for us down the stretch, Kirk would be just fine in his stats....

I'm not about to call him the worst PG in the league, but I will say right now this year he's playing like the worst PG in the league....something just ain't right with him.

by majoyenrac on Nov 29, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

exusing Hinrich

I can excuse Hinrich for poor low post passing. It's not like he's feeding it to Shaq, Howard, or Garnett every night. He's rarely making the pass to the low block at all. I doubt he practices this pass too.

Kirk will get you 12-15 assists per night if the Chicago shooters make their shots. He sets up open shots and when they fall he gets his 12-15. When they miss he gets his 5-7.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously?

Wow, tough crowd when making it to back-to-back Final Fours, and losing to the eventual champ each time, only merits a begrudging "good."

Good thing the Bulls drafted Noah, then, eh?

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Nov 29, 2007 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

reading your posts

makes me want to poke my eyes out, there so inane and so completely off base.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 29, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, the Bulls aren't going to a post-

driven offense. Not full-time. But it's clearly been part of their plan from the first day of camp.

Ita est, ergo ita sit.

by alec on Nov 29, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You have to be able to guard the SG position

NBA Shooting Guards

Eastern Conference
Ray Allen 6'5"
Jamal Crawford 6'5"
Dwayne Wade 6'4"
Vince Carter 6'7"
Jason Richardson 6'6"
Michael Redd 6'5"
Rip Hamilton 6'7"
Anthony Parker 6'7"
Willie Green 6'3"
Rashard Lewis 6'10"
Joe Johnson 6'6"
Gilbert Arenas 6'3"
Mike Dunleavy 6'10"

Western Conference
Tracy McGrady 6'8"
Kobe Bryant 6'7"
Kevin Durant 6'11"
Kevin Martin 6'6"
Monta Ellis 6'3"
Brandon Roy 6'5"
Cuttino Mobley 6'4"
Jerry Stackhouse 6'6"

If Hinrich struggles and Skiles continues to deny Thabo minutes it's going to be a long season. Chicago must be able to guard the SG position.

by NBA Observer on Nov 29, 2007 10:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

sorry

but Thabo is too much of a liability on defense to guard these people. I really do think we should try Deng there and Nocioni at SF and have Deng guard the more capable scorer of the opposing swingmen.

by JSlakov on Nov 29, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs