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Around SBN: More Televised Winter Baseball, Please

Open Game Thread #10: Bulls at Denver Nuggets

I really like the Nuggets roster and think they'd be the top team in the East. In fact they could be a top team in the West, if things go right. They gave the Spurs a heck of a scare in last season's playoffs, and with a returning Kenyon Martin (who's overpaid but at worst is another decent big) and more precious gelling time of Iverson and Anthony, I really liked them as one of the non Mavs-Spurs-Suns who could make a run.

Unfortunately for them the injuries have hit early, as starting PG Chucky Atkins and freaking-man-beat Nene are hurt. And we should all be thankful Nene won't be around to toss around the Bulls bigs. I always liked Nene, damnit, so while it's good that he's out for the game (8pm, CSN) I'd like to see him back soon to gauge this Nuggets team.

What about the Bulls? As far as I know (the 'my bulls' email service), Deng is out and A-Drain still in the starting lineup. It's been wrong before (it said that Tyrus would start in the Lakers game), but if Griffin's out there, is there really a point to watch? not really.

I mean I likely will watch it, but it'll have no consequence. If Griffin, Nocioni, and Joe Smith are racking up heavy minutes it just hurts the team all around in various ways: Noc and Smith are injury concerns (remember Noc's feet trouble? How's consecutive 40-minute games helping?) going forward, we'll know nothing about Tyrus and Thabo (and Noah) and how they're developing, and playing Adrian Griffin over anybody on the team likely hurts them short term, anyway. So we're punting games, and not getting ready for the postseason.

A win is a win, so I'd gladly take one (especially one that's a projected loss). There's a good chance the shooting comes around soon, as the Nuggets aren't known for their defense and like to up the pace. Remember kids: when the shots fall, we'll have energy. Not the other way around.

Blogging with the Enemy:
The Nugg Doctor
Born a Nuggets Fan

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I'm not
watching tonight. I did wear my Bulls shirt today so maybe that will bring them some luck.

I really hope Kirk gets out of his slump tonight and has a good game. Heck I hope they all play well.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 20, 2007 6:53 PM CST reply actions  

If playing Adrian a lot is Skiles way of making
Hinrich a shoot-first point guard, then I think that Skiles should seriously be considered for coach of the year. If not, then WTF?

by philosoball on Nov 20, 2007 7:18 PM CST up reply actions  

the great thing about charter cable
is they don't offer league pass so I have a good excuse not to watch.

by KT on Nov 20, 2007 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The Hawkeyes are
on at the same time that's why I'm not watching it live. I'm recording the Bulls and will watch them later.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 20, 2007 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Noc's Feet
I haven't heard anything about Nocioni's plantar fascitis this season.  I'm aware it can nag a player for the rest of their career, but if it is slowing Nocioni he is rather silent about it.

We must make our shots.  We've had wide open looks the entire trip.  Few of these shots are falling.  But jumpshots are lower percentage shots.  Shots at the rim need to fall.  Having Wallace out there is going to allow Camby to patrol the paint all night.  Tear drops from our guards should be ready for launch.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 6:55 PM CST reply actions  

Miracle Feet
A friend of mine has been diagnosed with plantar fascitis.  She's been in pain for years.   Her doctor has told her there's really no reliable cure.  I've talked to her about Noce, and her opinion is that he must have world-class pain tolerance.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

why is everyone trippin?
we're only 2 games outta a playoff spot...be a lil optimistic (even though this team gives us no good reason to)

evidently, our organization needs to be tweaked a lil bit to be a stronger at all levels (management, coaching, players)...but this season isn't lost by any stretch of the imagination

chill out and enjoy the game...

by chicagosportslove23 @ Blog a Bull on Nov 20, 2007 7:52 PM CST reply actions  

Un - F- in believable
Skiles HAS lost it...officially.

You have Tyrus Thomas who was starting two weeks ago and already has TWO double-doubles....
And Joaquim Noah, one of the more promising rookies in the NBA...

And they're BOTH on the bench in favor of GRIFFIN???

W-T-F???

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:16 PM CST reply actions  

And in the time it took to write that
Denver jumps out to a 10-2 lead over the bulls...

It's gonna be a long night....(sigh)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Add insult to injury
us directTV bums are forced to watch via Denver's feed and listen to THEIR ass wipe commentators...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:21 PM CST reply actions  

Stacey King:
"The Bulls need to realize that Allen Iverson is really quick around that perimeter."

If they need to realize that Allen Iverson is quick, then they've got to be the dumbest team in the league.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 8:22 PM CST reply actions  

Stacy needs to realize
that he needs lessons in common sense...
In pre-game, he said "the bulls cannot turn the ball over or make silly turnovers"
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:26 PM CST up reply actions  

At least he's better than Emmitt Smith
To quote Emmitt, hopefully the Bulls don't get "blowed out" tonight.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

We don't
play any defense...We gonna be beaten badly tonight.....

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 8:23 PM CST reply actions  

You should be thankful
you're listening to the Denver announcers.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 8:24 PM CST reply actions  

Naw, Denver's comms are the usual
slam the bulls, Nuggets are awesome BS...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

BG is too nice
I wanna see BG get NASTY. he needs to get mad. a killers mindset. attack the rim , shoot nonstop kick someone in the nutz

by Dr0ne420 on Nov 20, 2007 8:27 PM CST reply actions  

Noah
bad jumpshot and turnover after

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 8:29 PM CST reply actions  

Okay Skiles...I forgive you...
sit Noah back down...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:29 PM CST reply actions  

Nope
Noah can rebound and tip in to the rim(2;30 left 1-st)

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Well....as long as he doesn't shoot the ball....
just WATCHING him shoot is painful...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Andres Nocioni
I want to see him swing elbow in player face.

Andres Nocioni: "Im good basketball player."

youtube.com/angryasianace

by AngryAsianAce on Nov 20, 2007 8:32 PM CST reply actions  

Norm VanLier made a pre game statement:
he said Skiles needs to quit messing with the starting line-up....it's confusing....

I would tend to agree....especially with the line-up he started tonight...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:32 PM CST reply actions  

Someone
should say Noah not to take jumpshots whatsorever!!!

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 8:42 PM CST reply actions  

I missed the first six minutes
how'd Noc get his fouls, on Melo?  What about Tyrus?
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 8:42 PM CST reply actions  

Good luck...
to the Bulls... Denver's a tough match-up.

by withmalice on Nov 20, 2007 8:43 PM CST reply actions  

trade
noah, tyrus, deng, and skiles   for kobe bryant and phil jackson

by Dr0ne420 on Nov 20, 2007 8:44 PM CST reply actions  

THIS is a great idea....if only they could....
Heck, I even think that with Phil coaching, this team AS IT IS would be really good.

I am convinced this cluster is on Skiles at this point.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Nuh-uh... no thanks.
From a Lakers fan:
noah, tyrus, deng, and skiles   for kobe bryant and phil jackson
No way, nuh-uh, not on your life.

by withmalice on Nov 20, 2007 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Duhon for 3
is my guy!Especcially compare to Hinrich.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 8:45 PM CST reply actions  

The bulls look even MORE outta synch now
and Denver is lightin' 'em up...on both ends
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:47 PM CST reply actions  

if we start to pool money and
bet against bulls and on the pats, we might just be able to buy a new team and hookers.

by lampnasty on Nov 20, 2007 8:50 PM CST reply actions  

KIRK - what a buffoon!
dribbles the ball off his ankle....
UGH!
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:52 PM CST reply actions  

and then gets SCHOOLED by Carmello
and fouls him besides....
ugh...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha...Skiles out on the floor in the refs face
for a T -
Watch your coaching job flash before your eyes...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:04 PM CST reply actions  

In Skiles defense - those WERE pretty bad
non-calls...Gardner got HAMMERED under the hoop...

And F'in Carmello is living on the line tonight, but that's nothing new...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Gardner!
I'm trying to find positive.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 9:05 PM CST reply actions  

Bulls announcers
talking about free throw disparity.  Wh the Fu do you think?  AI and Melo vs...who? on the Bulls do they expect to be getting to the line?

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:10 PM CST reply actions  

Well...
I expect the players the Nuggets foul should go to the line, but that is too much from these refs.  The Nuggets never foul, don't you know.

by cranscape on Nov 20, 2007 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea, it was the same in Chicago last year
vs. these nuggets...
I remember that game - it was a day game...and Anthony had something like 30 FT's, and the entire bulls TEAM had less...

I cannot stand the Nuggets...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Please...
Attack the basket, get fouls.
Chicago's a jumpshooting team.

by withmalice on Nov 20, 2007 9:18 PM CST up reply actions  

There doesn't seem to be a point for them to drive
When they do drive they get fouled.  They get clobbered and get no call or points from the effort. I'd like to see them drive more, but if they won't get a call or points anyway then they would probably have better luck from outside.  

by cranscape on Nov 20, 2007 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't take it anymore.
I keep turning to other channels because it hurts too much to watch.  The refs are being ridiculous.  I guess the Nuggets just don't foul.  That can be the only answer, right?  sigh  

by cranscape on Nov 20, 2007 9:11 PM CST reply actions  

Positive?
When BG dribbles into yet ANOTHER TO?

And the Nuggets ahve taken TWENTY FIVE FT's, and there's still 2 minutes left in the half...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:11 PM CST reply actions  

72 points allowed in a half!
That is unconscionably bad defense.

BTW, the people who seem to believe that merely replacing Skiles will instantaneously make this team a playoff contender aren't paying attention.

You can get Phil Jackson or Red Auerbach or Mike F'in Ditka, this team won't and can't win unless the guys on the floor play a lot better.

The guards are ludicrously bad at this point in the season.

SUCK IT SABAN!

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 20, 2007 9:17 PM CST reply actions  

It wouldn't be so bad....
...if the Nuggets were capable of fouling us.  But they are not.

by cranscape on Nov 20, 2007 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

unless the guys on the floor play a lot better
Well DUH...
You get Phil, and that would generate optimism at the very least...

Skiles is the main reason these guys are playing so bad to begin with...they're sick of the idiot and his stupid antics.

Someone like Jackson at least has rings on multiple fingers and has earned the respect of the basketball community.

Skiles has just gotten stagnant on this team and will never get to the next level...at least not with the Bulls.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:31 PM CST up reply actions  

You have got to be kidding me...
"Skiles is the main reason these guys are playing so bad to begin with...they're sick of the idiot and his stupid antics."

Come on, man. There is absolutely no way you can prove that statement with sound evidence or reason.

SUCK IT SABAN!

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 20, 2007 9:34 PM CST up reply actions  

If I have to explain it to you
then you'd never understand so I won't even try.

Enjoy your game.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

The only positive of the night
were the Knick fans chanting "fire Isiah" all night.

by chgobr on Nov 20, 2007 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

Done
I can't watch this garbage anymore. This team is beyond terrible. The best guy on the team tonight, is the guy that barely made the roster. ugh!

by ScottSkilles Hair on Nov 20, 2007 9:20 PM CST reply actions  

Lakers
won over Indy getting 137 points.
So denver supose to reach 140 mark easily.
So sad to watch this Bulls team...

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

What an ass-kicking
If the Bulls can't manage to beat the pathetic Knicks on Saturday, it might be time to consider some drastic, drastic changes.  I hate the cliched "fire the coach" crap you find on talk radio and in Jay Mariotti columns, but there is no reason this Bulls team should ever lose to a team like the Knicks.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 9:28 PM CST reply actions  

too late
nice thought though.   :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

It's supose
to be at the bottom,sorry.
I called Skiles ofcours.

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

this isnt normal suckage either
this is kornel david, corey benjamin and 50 asian business men in full on bukkake fest

by lampnasty on Nov 20, 2007 9:31 PM CST reply actions  

Wow...these refs really ARE being shitheads
adds even more ugliness to an already ugly game
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:36 PM CST reply actions  

VIKTOR TIME
im done with this shit aaaaaaaaaaaaapeace

by lampnasty on Nov 20, 2007 9:41 PM CST reply actions  

Let's review...
It's not even halfway through the 3rd...
the Bulls are down 80-60...
the entire team is in foul trouble...
Heinbrick and Skiles both have T's...
the Bulls are shooting 38% (AGAIN) for the night...
and my TV is on mute due to the assinine denver commentators...

sounds like a typical '07 Bulls game...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:43 PM CST reply actions  

Noc has the T
not Kirk
"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Nov 20, 2007 9:53 PM CST up reply actions  

oops...I stand corrected
what was I thinking?   :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the thing that bothers me
more than anything else is watching how joyless TT looks out there.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:44 PM CST reply actions  

how joyless TT looks out there.
how about the whole TEAM looking joyless...?
(although I can think of many OTHER ways to describe it...)   :-)
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

wtf is going on with hinrich
it's like he's taking dribbling lessons from BG...
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 9:48 PM CST reply actions  

Never thought I'd say this . . .
But Gardner has been the Bulls best player tonight.  I wouldn't mind seeing some more of him.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 9:50 PM CST reply actions  

good to see
kmart is still a thug, double microfracture knee surgery couldn't have happened to a nicer guy
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 9:51 PM CST reply actions  

kmart is still a thug
no doubt....
did you see him clobber TT coming off the hoop hang?
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

It's all starting to come back to me
why I never liked Kenyon Martin.  Even in college.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:52 PM CST reply actions  

why I never liked Kenyon Martin
Think about it...
Kmart...AI...notmello...gumby....

They all fit well together on one team.
What amazes me is that they haven't brawled yet...
But if the team ever goes into a losing skid funk....whoa...watch out!!    :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 9:55 PM CST up reply actions  

this shit is embarassing to watch
but im not worried cuz they do this every year.  

by Dr0ne420 on Nov 20, 2007 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

Not like this
They weren't getting blown out by 30 points the last few years, even during their bad starts.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions  

wow
how dumb is the nugget sideline reporter...
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

is it me
or did all of the bulls players get shorter and skinnier in the offseason.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 9:54 PM CST reply actions  

are u insinuating they all have aids?
because thats the most fulfilling explanation yet.

by lampnasty on Nov 20, 2007 9:57 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not right
to even say something like that as a joke...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:00 PM CST up reply actions  

meh
just grasping for straws...i find mariotti far more offensive than taboozzz

by lampnasty on Nov 20, 2007 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

except Hinrich,
who spent his in the gym pumping iron and losing his coordination.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 9:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You're absolutly right!
That is the answer on how Hinrich became Hinbrick.
Is it all players responsibility?Do they have traners who can suggest of what to do?

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

strange game
Hinrich has three dribbling TO's and BG is shooting 2-14.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 9:56 PM CST reply actions  

Strange?
Nothing is strange this days...

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

uggg
This is just depressing there is no passion in the game.. Honestly.. do they liked getting there ass whipped every night... Wheres the leader of this team??? Even joakim looks pretty bummed out there...

by hokiefan0705 on Nov 20, 2007 10:00 PM CST reply actions  

Hey - Frank TV is on...MUCH better viewing...
at least I'm laughing for a GOOD reason!    LOL
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

It's bad...
When 'Garbage Time' is the entire 4th quarter.

by withmalice on Nov 20, 2007 10:11 PM CST reply actions  

yikes
-13
-30
-10
-15
-13
-5
-13
-11
-11
-11
-2
-8
All of the bulls players tonight... I know that stat  does not mean much... but Not one person in the positives.... Every player on the nuggets is +...

by hokiefan0705 on Nov 20, 2007 10:11 PM CST reply actions  

A new all time low
at least for this season...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:13 PM CST reply actions  

Just for the record . . .
The Bulls lost one game by 20+ points last season - March 7th in Miami (103-70).  This will be their third such blowout in the past 10 days, so this is much worse than last year's start.

by Big D on Nov 20, 2007 10:15 PM CST reply actions  

wow...
32-85.... r u kidding me....

by hokiefan0705 on Nov 20, 2007 10:16 PM CST reply actions  

Man
I can't even stomach this shit anymore. This year has been so hard on me. See, I'm a White Sox/Bulls/Rams fan.  I had expectations for every team of mine.

I always kept telling people, "At least I have the Bulls."

I am running outta things to say

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:18 PM CST reply actions  

I think it might be safe
to be a Blackhawks and a Bandits fan.  But you're not local, are you?

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Nah
I'm a Los Angeles boy.

That's where the Rams thing is in me.

Actually, I don't watch Hockey much but I really do love the Blackhawks.  But I don't watch them enough to get me happy daily.

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I only mention the Bandits
because you could be watching Jennie Finch.  She is probably the current Chicago athlete most worth the price of admission.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

White Sox
You gotta be happy about sayin' adios to Pods though.

On the other hand - WTF with trading Garland?
I understand wanting a better SS than Uribe, but GARLAND?

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

The guy they got
for Garland is already older than Wallace.  I don't get that one at all.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I do
It's called Kenny F'in Williams....

I'm starting to think he and Pax are somehow related despite the obvious...

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah
only silver lining is that I keep reminding myself that Jeter is 32, I think.

Not comparing him to Jeter but I guess older shortstops don't wear down as fast even though Cabrera did have a career year.

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Pods was one of my favorite players
Obviously during the good times. Bittersweet to see him go.

The Garland trade only made this week worse.  The only thing I can hope for is Hunter signing with the Sox soon.

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

hope for is Hunter signing
That's another thing:
Why would Williams pursue a snobby, "look at me" asshole in Hunter instead of a guy like Aaron Rowand who, is one of THE reasons the chemestry worked (one of the 3 stooges) on the '05 Sox and is loved and adored by ALL Sox fans?
He's just as talented, is younger, doesn't need as much to sign, and has a MUCH better TEAM attitude...
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

IMO
Hunter has at least been more consistent.

Garland just had one really good year batting

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Garland just had one really good year batting
HA!   LOL
Yeah, didn't Garland hit like a Grand Slam in Cincinati or somethin' in '06?

I remember watching that...   :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

the cabrera trade
makes zero sense.  they seriously plan on trotting out contreras and gavin floyd in the rotation next year?  and while i like orlando cabreras game as much as anyone, hes a career 280 hitter, odds are he regresses to that.  and for anyone who liked podsednik, i dont know what to tell you.  he was, is, and will always be awful.  hopefully danks or broadway or gio turns out to be decent or else its gonna be another long year

by Mike C on Nov 21, 2007 12:43 AM CST up reply actions  

well
at least I still got the Hokies with me... only team that has consistently kept me up... I hope to god I did not wast me my money on season tix this year... I thought it was going to be a magical season...

by hokiefan0705 on Nov 20, 2007 10:20 PM CST reply actions  

Paxson
How long he is going to tolerate this?
December is coming,Pax!

by Azabullsfan on Nov 20, 2007 10:20 PM CST reply actions  

Counting down to the day we can trade Noc
He seems like a really valuable chip right now.

Sad thing is, no one else does

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:21 PM CST reply actions  

this looks like
amateur hour, seriously

In my mind I knew the game was over in the 2nd quarter...I kept holding out hope...but the inevitable happened

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 10:23 PM CST reply actions  

something
needs to be done.... starting with the coach...

by hokiefan0705 on Nov 20, 2007 10:23 PM CST reply actions  

can't wait
to hear what Skiles' postgame comments sound like...this should be fun

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 10:24 PM CST reply actions  

lol @ Red Kerr
blaming the mile high air on the Bulls' woes tonight...lol

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 10:25 PM CST reply actions  

Wow!
I'm glad I didn't see all of this mess. I don't think I'll bother watching it later. Disheartening for sure.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 20, 2007 10:26 PM CST reply actions  

Watch the first part of the first quarter
Kirk hit 3 in a row, and it was before the TO spree.

Then turn it off as soon as he hits that third basket.

"I believe. I believe. It's silly, but I believe." (Miracle on 34th Street)

by wjb1492 on Nov 20, 2007 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks.
That shouldn't take long then. I was really hoping for a better game for him.
Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 20, 2007 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Sue, I know you don't
want to hear this, but it's really looking like he's working his way toward a seat on the bench.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 10:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he
should. Try it and see if he does play better coming off the bench. I'm sur ehe's just as frustrated as the fans are.

The guys on the post game tonight were wondering if there aren't some chemistry problems on the team and that might be some of their problem. It's a thought.

Please get this season turned around and play some great basketball.

by sue369 on Nov 20, 2007 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

that's what it looked like to me
guys aren't working together.  I've noticed in other games where BG isn't hitting the open guy.  Now it seems like Kirk is trying to get fancy.  It's almost like he's diving at loose balls so he doesn't look bad for turning it over or something.  These guys just aren't playing together, and nobody seems to want to go to the basket.  Ever.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 11:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Silver lining
22 minutes for Joakim

7 of 10 for 16 points and 8 boards.

Maybe this shows Skiles he can rely on the man

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:29 PM CST reply actions  

come on my dude
practically all of that, MAYBE except for 2 of those points, came in garbage ("embarrassment") time

If Skiles is trying to "rely" on Noah, then this season is more of a joke than I thought

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 20, 2007 10:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Ahh Ok
Didn't watch the whole game...just caught the end.

Saw the box score

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

What's REALLY bad
is that his 16 pts. led ALL scoring on the Bulls tonight...

Holy shit batman.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Scottie's right, unfortunately
Noah looked horrible early.  Then again, he hasn't played in awhile.  I did think to myself that he just might be able to contribute meaningful minutes from, say, March on.

But overall, this team is totally lost.  It really does look like JV hour.  I watched the Knicks-Warriors game and the Knicks looked pathetic.  Then I watched this game and I thought, wow, Saturday should be a really tight game.  That is not a good sign.

I might have to bail on watching the Bulls for a month or two.  Watching them now is turning into a big waste of time.  After watching nearly every game for the last 3+ seasons, its a shame to feel that way.  I want to believe they will "work themselves out of their slump" but I have a hard time seeing it.  Instead, I see one of the bigger disappointments in recent NBA history.

A team that can be good doesn't get repeatedly blown out by 20+.  Such a shame.

My favorite metric of a team's quality is the often underappreciated "win/loss record"

by preverbal on Nov 20, 2007 11:01 PM CST up reply actions  

this season is more of a joke
as in...JOAQ-UIM...?
Get it?  

DOH!

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Noah
Can't ever please you guys. Garbage time? That's when Skiles plays him. He's not responsible for that. When he plays in garbage time and he doesn't score points, you say he can't score. What the heck do you want out of this kid? When Gray does the same you say, hey, this kid can score, he deserves more time. Points apart what about his passing and rebounding? You are just a certified idiot!

by SlamDunk on Nov 20, 2007 11:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Yannik, is that you??
First of all calm down...

Second of all, did you not watch the same game that I did?  Did he or did he not score the majority of his baskets in garbage time??  It's a simple yes or no answer.

I never said anything was WRONG with that, you moron, I simply stated when his points were scored.

Kick back, put your feet up, and go grab a coke and a smile...

by ScottieCartwright on Nov 21, 2007 8:42 AM CST up reply actions  

Scottie, you're still a certified idiot
Sorry to get back to you so late. By the way, I'm from Queens, New York, and I've never met Joakim or his dad. I'm just a fan of a young man whose career I've followed while he was at Florida. Unlike you, I have no axe to grind, no petty reason to dislike Joakim.

Now back to the issue at hand. And to expose you, I am going to quote what you said in response to Option 27 when he observed that in 22 minutes of playing time Noah was 7 of 10 for 16 points and 8 boards. Your sarcastic response was: "Practically all of that, maybe except for 2 of those points, came in garbage ("embarrassment") time."

The truth was that only Thomas Gardner with 9 points had more than Noah's 6 in the first half of play. To follow you logic, Gardner's points were also in garbage time. Maybe garbage time for the Bulls started  few minutes into the game. What do you mean by "practically all"? To make you more unhappy I'll add that he had three assists, a steal and a block in, I guess, "garbage time."
How could a moron call somebody a moron?

by SlamDunk on Nov 21, 2007 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Joke
Hey, Scottie! You're a joke.

by SlamDunk on Nov 20, 2007 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Illinois
is on ESPN

Has Jordan played yet?!

by Option27 on Nov 20, 2007 10:30 PM CST reply actions  

It's one thing to lose.
It's quite another thing to be humiliated and embarassed, to fail to demonstrate even the barest trace of competence or pride.

My goodness, the team allowed KENYON FUCKING MARTIN to use it like a crusty cum rag after a cheap lay with herpes ridden hooker in an hourly hotel room somewhere in Tijuana.

I accept that the Nuggets are better than the Bulls, but can they be THAT much better?

I'm at a loss. I really am. What is going on?

Deng is still out, and its still early, so that gives the narrowest wedge of hope.

SUCK IT SABAN!

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 20, 2007 10:56 PM CST reply actions  

use it like a crusty cum rag
the detail in which you describe such a thing is simply astonishing...

...didn't your mother ever wash your mouth out with soap?

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

preview of tomorrow's post
Fire Skiles first, then we can see what we have.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 20, 2007 11:05 PM CST reply actions  

Fire Skiles first
Word.
Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 20, 2007 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Fire SKILES NOW
I am beyond pissed.  How can he keep starting Griffin?  Why does TT only get 11 minutes?   He is betraying his players with his substitution patterns and EVERYONE has tuned him out.  This has happened before.  This isn't the first time!  Check out his stint in PHX.  The players after making the playoffs 2 straight years, quit on skiles.  He was fired midway into his second full season as coach.  

He needs to go.  What player has his back?  Which of the players respect him?  Who does he get along with?  The coach can't be the most hated person on the team.  The NBA doesn't work like that.  No one is responding to his mind games anymore.  The players are becoming openly defiant.  Does anyone think Wallace is the only player disgruntled?  I'm not sure Gordon, Tyrus, Noah, Hinrich or Deng are too happy right now.  Its times for Plan B.  Who is the Bulls top assistant?  

by danger mouse on Nov 20, 2007 11:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I missed this one
(luckily?) after all, guys. TT only 11 minutes???? There must be a coach somewhere that'll play the kid!

by marionette on Nov 20, 2007 11:46 PM CST reply actions  

Skiles Quotables
Skiles is quoted in the Sun-Times this morning by John Jackson saying that T2 isn't playing because he's not running back and forth on the court like a "train".  T2 isn't sprinting to both ends taking advantage of his athleticism according to Skiles.

I've seen this lack of effort from Thomas.  I think Skiles may actually be right here.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 8:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh my God.
Check out Sam's huge rip on Tyrus.  It just went up at the Tribune.  I knew it was going to be bad when I heard him in the press conference ask Skiles about TT's "gruesome" game.

by alec on Nov 20, 2007 11:56 PM CST reply actions  

If we are looking at the same
article, I actually agree with Smith for once. Generally, Smith is a dunce. However, the thesis of his most recent article is that the Bulls' woes stem from the subpar play of their main contributors. That's entirely true, in my estimation.
SUCK IT SABAN!

by 1958ChiTown on Nov 21, 2007 12:07 AM CST up reply actions  

We need an offesnive minded coach
to bad Rick Adelman was taken by the rockets. what coaches are theft?

by eross226 on Nov 20, 2007 11:59 PM CST reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing
about the Bears.  Wouldn't it be poetic justice if  Ron Turner were replaced by Marty Schottenheimer?

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Ron Turner were replaced by Marty Schottenheimer
Personally, I'd like to see it be Lovie getting replaced by Marty...

THEN Turner, THEN Babs and THEN...?   :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 21, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

On the Denver defense
Saw Matt's comment in the pregame about perhaps getting the offense going tonight against a Denver team that isn't known for it's defense.  It's a thought I shared as well, although I haphazardly stumbled open Knickerblogger's advanced stats page in search of information for a column and found that while they play the quickest game in the league, Denver is actually fifth in basketball in defensive efficiency.  We knew they could score with ease, but  this improvement is as responsible as anything for the Nugs' quick start this year.  Just figured it was worth noting.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Nov 21, 2007 12:04 AM CST reply actions  

We
need someone who will work with the young kids and help them mature and become players.Like TYson Jr smith, TT, and Noah because with time i think Noah and TT can become All stars but skiles hates young kids because hes a bad coach.

by eross226 on Nov 21, 2007 12:10 AM CST reply actions  

Here, I'll share my email to Sam:
Jeez, Sam, that smacked of a column you've had written for a long time, just waiting for the right moment to whip it out.  You know, I think in your heart of hearts you're actually a kind and decent person.  I wonder when it's going to hit you that this private war you're waging against Tyrus Thomas, even though it feels good and swells your ego in that first instant after you hit the 'send' key, ultimately will prove unsatisfying.  In your dotage, you'll look back on these columns...and despise the person you were then, that you are now.  You should be old enough now already to realize that.  It's pitiful to watch a formerly honorable writer and reporter sink to these depths.

--alec

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:22 AM CST reply actions  

next time
don't share.
Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 21, 2007 12:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Last time,
people here asked me to share.  Oh, well.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:30 AM CST up reply actions  

please share his response
I've written to him a few times lately, and he's getting very crotchety.  Would love to see his reply.

by snley on Nov 21, 2007 12:31 AM CST up reply actions  

He is.
Before the season started he told me he'd stop ripping on Thomas if he would just one score 15 and grab 10 boards.  Then he signed off with some quip about "at least I'm being consistant."

Well, not exactly.  Thomas had two games in what, the first five, that were better than that, and Sam still couldn't help himself.  This column tonight, in my opinion, was despicable.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 12:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Despicable?
A great majority of that piece came straight from the lips of Scott Skiles. Smith isn't to blame -- that column basically wrote itself, IMO.

by ChrisRobin on Nov 21, 2007 3:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know that that's true.
You could easily identify Sam's voice in the post game press conference, as he again and again tried to steer skiles toward making a disparaging statement about Tyrus.  Skiles never took the bait.  Now it could be that Skiles made all his nasty reamrks about Thomas before the game, and was hanging both Thomas and Smith out to dry with his obvious plausible deniability tactic in the post game.  Can't say about that.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

In this spirit of 'sharing'...
I wrote an article for a Chicago magazine (Chicago Sports Weekly)...
http://www.csweekly.com/featuredStory/index/id/108

by withmalice on Nov 21, 2007 12:49 AM CST reply actions  

you forgot to mention
how much Fukudome hates playing in domes.

by SRQman on Nov 21, 2007 2:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Fukudome
Talent level notwithstanding -
Can you imagine the fun people would have with this poor guy's name if he has bad games???!!

I busted a nut just looking at it in print!   :-)

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 21, 2007 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

very nice article
and I hope he does choose to play here.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh my god! We are tied with the Knicks...
for the second worst record in the league. Awesome this is by far the worst season I have ever seen.
Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 1:13 AM CST reply actions  

I have never seen
the Bulls play worse defense. Joe Smith looks older then Greg Oden at a carnival. I can't understand why Skiles gives Thabo so many minutes. He 100 percent does not look ready to play. The minute he goes in there the Nuggets went on a 10 - 0 run. It's not all his fault, but he really shouldn't be playing.

And whatever dog house bullshit is going on between Tyrus and Skiles needs to stop immediately. Can't Paxon intervene here like he did when Wallace was mad about the head band fiasco??

by RogersPark Kris on Nov 21, 2007 1:23 AM CST reply actions  

I wana just stop watching but for whatever reason
I keep comming back. How did the Clippers lose to this team>?
Ohhhhhh yeah CM,Brand and Livingston all out.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 1:25 AM CST reply actions  

Bigger question
How did DETROIT lose to this team. Wallace called in a favor????

Also about wallace, is it true during the suns game they talked about how the bulls stayed with Joe Smiths uncle (who lives in pheonix), and while there Joe Smiths uncle was greeting all the players, and when he got to wallace he and wallace had a conversation something along the lines of:

"hey didnt you used to be the back to back defensive player of the year?"
"Yea, thats right"
"oh...What happened to you?"

Ben wallace i guess told the tnt reporters, and they told the media. At the end of that game wallace was also benched.

Then in the clippers game we saw wallace dominating, and even in the lakers game there seemed less of those finger rolls that he does, and more dunking. I initially thought that maybe skiles' benching had a good affect on wallace, but then i wondered if what really happened was this, a phone call to Chauncy:

"Skiles that ##### put me on the bench in the 4th man. We could have won, this is just like that #### that mother###### Saunders pulled. I hate this #####"

"Ben Ben, it was one thing when Saunders put you on the bench man, you were a beast and you deserved to go out there and take care of business, but brotha, you have been playing like #### out there in chicago"

"Man its this team they..."

"Cmon man, you got that soft, no wonder we ##### your ### last year in the playoffs. You gotta help this team out man, bring out the beast"

....yea im bored so i posted what i truly do believe happened.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 21, 2007 3:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I keep comming back
That is possibly worse than the actual losses...This "self-mutilation" syndrome that won't allow me NOT to watch.

It's like one of those really bad sci-fi movies where the nightmare is stuck in a repeating loop...

Argh.

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 21, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Where do we go from here?
They were awesome last year and now they suck. What the hell do we do now?

by tomcat on Nov 21, 2007 1:46 AM CST reply actions  

Honestly
They have to win. One game at a time. There is nowhere else to go.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 2:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Sigh
Well said...they say that the playoffs are a "whole 'nother season". Theres no sense trying tanking games, and theres no sense EVER in calling it quits. They gotta regain control, i think the fans are tired of waiting for a break out game for 12 players...they just gotta get some wins...

This isnt the nfl, where theres only a handful of games to play and then its over. There are a total of 82 games in the season, and just how it tends to be, you are allowed to lose about 40 of them and still find a way into the playoffs. So in other words, the bulls still have a long ways to go, from EVERYTHING.

Like you said joejoe, take a game at a time, and win some games and try to make it into the playoffs. Who knows, once there maybe they will play like our ideal bulls rather than THIS reality.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 21, 2007 3:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I just have this mental image
Of Ben Gordon clicking his heels together repeatedly, saying:
"There's no place like home... There's no place like home...There's no place like home...There's no place like home..."

by withmalice on Nov 21, 2007 4:10 AM CST reply actions  

What if
If MSG doesn't bring out the shooting touch for Ben Gordon, what the heck will?

Good news.  Knicks are among the worst defense teams in the league and have the same kind of stagnant offense as Chicago.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 9:05 AM CST up reply actions  

So what you're REALLY saying
is that the game in NY will be another one of those "who wants to lose MORE?" games...

Oh.....joy.....

Is it spring training yet?

by Bluelou on Nov 21, 2007 9:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Just reread Sam's game article and noticed
he took out a nasty reference to Thomas that was in the article last night when it first appeared after the game.

One thing that bothers me about this is that Skiles gave Smith a lay-up with his comment about the particularly amateurish type of turnovers the Bulls committed in the game, an obvious reference to Hinrich dribbling the ball off his heel while trying to go behind his back, and Sam ignored it.

Instead, he wrote this long piece about Thomas, the clear implication that Thomas is the Bulls big problem.  To my mind, a fifth year player playing like a sixth grade girl (I can say this from personal experience, no disrespect meant toward sixth grade girls) is a much bigger problem than a second-year bench player not yet finding his game.  

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 8:40 AM CST reply actions  

replays
Not trying to excuse Hinrich's dribbling, but the defender(Bobby Jones?) did get a hand on the ball right as Hinrich tried to bring the ball behind his back.  The hand contact was down momentum which led to the ball going straight at Kirk's heel instead of   foot behind him.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 9:07 AM CST up reply actions  

that was on the turnover
in the back court?  It just looked to me like a double team was setting up, not that they were that close...if we're talking about the same play.  Assuming what you're saying is true, and I missed the play, that would have been officially listed as a steal rather than a turnover?

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

clarity
alec: The defender's hand on the ball was so quick it would not surprise me at all if it was scored as a turnover.  I don't even think it could be a steal since the ball was essentially tipped out of Hinrich's hand right into his heel.

None of this excuses a 5th year pro not being able to cross the half court line with the basketball.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, I am a sixth grade girl....
Sorry, haven't cleared the cobwebs yet this morning.

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 8:42 AM CST reply actions  

Did anyone see Thomas get bullied by
K-Mart? I mean I couldn't believe how none of the Bulls or Thomas himself didn't do a damn thing. Yeah K-mart is scary but your 2-7 about to go 2-8 and this dudes up in your face all night. If you watch Thomas he totally looked scared. He was quite and at one point when Martin dunked he even made a point to sit on Thomas's face. I was shocked. If he did that to me, I'm 5'10 and white I would have takin out Martins knees! I don't care how big Martin is I would have stuck up for myself. Tyrus showed no balls. Much like this team.
Thabo Sefolosha got bad. Took a stupid pill.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 21, 2007 10:41 AM CST reply actions  

Should have
When Kmart pulled up on the rim in order to rock back and shove T2, Tyrus should have shoved Martin to the floor.  Martin was gaming T2 all night with his head games, but Martin is not Rodman.  He will lose his own head games because he's an idiot that can jump high.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

just another example...
nobody cares. At all.
And worse we may be yet: the worst is not so long as we can say, "This is the worst."

by alec on Nov 21, 2007 10:44 AM CST reply actions  

First time post....
and i hate that its in these conditions but this is really getting ridiculous. I watched the game last night and it was truly painful and i actually cringed a few times, like when noah took his two jumpshots, or when ben gordon chucked up 2-3 jumpers with two people on him, missed, got discouraged and was invisible for the rest of the game, or when thabo was in the game period. I made some bad passes in my life but i doubt i ever threw a pass into the opposing teams paint to my one teammate there, surrounded by 4 opposing team players with their hands out....thabo is playing really really bad. Im not even going to comment on the whole AG strating and thomas and noah warming the bench, even tho they did play last night but didnt do much (noah had a a few tip ins and some garbage time points). Thomas as skiles said is pretty lazy, he is not playing to his potential, but u cant expect him to when u start him 2 games than bench him 3-4...but last night he pretty much got raped by martin mentally and phisically. Nocioni.....i dont even know what to say, he is beng himself i guess, running like a chicken without a head. But i guess he is one of the bright spots these days. Kirk had a decent game, well at least in the first half. Gardner played ok, Gray has some skill but he just looks too goofy and clumsy to me. The state of the team currently is horrendous, but like some people said they gotta start winning some games and just get out of the gutter. The whole kobe trade talk is done; ben and LD didnt sign extentions OK, its done for now; get ur asses in the game and start playing ball like a pro team not like a special ed squad!

by Gogiman on Nov 21, 2007 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

Can't judge Gray
I can't judge Gray posting up Najera.  He should be able to score at will on Najera on the low block.  Gray has at least 4 inches on him.

by NBA Observer on Nov 21, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions  

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