Official(and only) NBA DRAFT thread.

Way too early friend

I don't really discuss the draft until clubs start clinching playoff berths.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 4:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think the Bulls will come around.

But if things continue I would imagin the Bulls being too far out to draft anything that could help this team now. Right now either OJ Mayo or Derrick Rose would be the only players I think the Bulls would wana draft. 6'4 point guards. Other than that they would have to trade the pick.

Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 5:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OJ Mayo

reminds me of Vince Carter without the pedigree. I don't see him have a long and fruitful career. Maybe even a more-hyped JR Smith. He's at USC so that he can market himself...

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 5:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You mean he's not

there because of Tim Floyd's NBA coaching experience? Shocking.

by Scotter on Nov 20, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On Mayo and Floyd

Mayo did more recruiting than Tim Floyd over the summer.

Mayo seems like a complete head case to me. I don't like the head on his shoulders. His game is awesome, but that mind of his has trouble written all over it.

by NBA Observer on Nov 20, 2007 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

heh, I don't blame him

have you seen the cheerleaders out there?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Nov 20, 2007 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take that over Hinrich right now.

Red Kerr's cough button.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Nov 20, 2007 10:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hinrich sucks

I'd take Skiles over Hinrich right now.

and no it is not too early to talk about the draft. I hope we draft Hibbert. Come December 15 (when noc and Smith can be traded) a trade will be made to improve the backcourt, leaving the frontcourt as the bigest problem.... Is Noah supposed to be our center of the future?? Ben wallace is garbage ,I like what i've seen from Noah, but expect him to get eaten alive by veteran centers. and at 6'11 he is the bull's tallest guy (well that i care about at least) and that is way too short for an already short team.

the trade that i reference above will hopefully bring gilbert arenas to the bulls. for hinrich noc, joe smith, and possibly a draft pick

by Zac23 on Nov 21, 2007 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gilbert is out ...

for 3 months at least. So your trade is quite unlikely I think.

The Game chose him !

by Diabolo on Nov 22, 2007 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea just saw that too...

still wouldnt mind if we wait until he gets back, i personally think he is the best player in the league.

by Zac23 on Nov 22, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

arrrgghh! The Hibbert talk again...

From NY Times:

"He was a big fan of Pokémon," [Dwayne] Bryant said in a telephone interview. "During games we used to tell him, `Power up, big fella. Power up.' Then he'd kind of get this look on his face like he was going to get busy."

Hmm. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't expect a guy like Skiles to stock Pokemon references in his box of motivational tools.

Hibbert: "Coach, I'm not into the game."

Skiles: "Power up, Roy boy! I choose you!"

Hibbert: "Oh, it's on now."

um.. yeah...

by Hiryu on Nov 27, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kosta Koufos

7-1 man with skill. especially if we make a deal to improve back court.

by SRQman on Nov 22, 2007 7:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

LOVE LOVE !!

As I give a wink to Matt

by Option27 on Nov 27, 2007 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Why not draft

Beasley

by the truth on Nov 27, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oh because he'll be a top 3 pick,

and the Bulls simply won't get the opportunity. It's like saying why not trade for Duncan, or why not rid the earth of all evil. Excellent idea, but somewhat unrealistic.

I thought the Bulls were back... turns out they're just a back end...

by bullhockey on Nov 27, 2007 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At the rate the bulls are going

I dont see how unrealistic that is really. 2 out of 10 games won, if the bulls keep this up, they will have about 17 wins by the end of the season.

Okay your right, that seems wrong, how about 34 wins at teh end of the season...still lottery bound though.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 27, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I with you my brotha

I'm actually hoping they lose as many games as possible this year and just start anew new year. If the Bulls are dead last, that would guarantee a top 4 pick that they could use on either Beasely, Mayo, Rose or Blake Griffin (in that order). All four of them have superstar potential which all of the Bulls, except Tyrus Thomas, lack. If we get Beasely or Griffin, we could work out a sign and trade for Arenas by offering Ben Wallace and Luol Deng then sign Jermaine O'Neal (unrestricted FA). The Wizards in this case won't lose Arenas for nothing and we in turn get rid of Big Contract. If we get Mayo or Rose, then we replace Deng with Gordon and Hinrich. That would be so sweet.

And also fire Skiles.

by Kantut on Nov 27, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

just in at the buzzer

Boy ban.

Boy will be remembered for constantly repeating himself with superstar rhetoric and crapping every player on the current team. Which is somewhat fine (well, not the repeating oneself).

What's not fine is openly rooting for Bulls losses, especially way before tanking season.

And that concludes the circus trip commenter execution game.

(I really wouldn't have done it if I knew they'd win once. I feel somewhat sad it blasted away so many, but all executed parties can reincarnate in the BlogABull afterlife, hopefully with more mindful thoughts. mindful of me, anyway.)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 27, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft talk was much more fun the past few years

Think we can get Isiah to give us his draft pick again this year?

by Big D on Nov 27, 2007 11:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

According to the Sun-Times

Pax was scouting Hibbert at the Georgetown DePaul game the night the Bulls lost to the Knicks:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/732203,CST-SPT-demon09.article

by KT on Jan 10, 2008 7:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

what the hell

we already have white Hibbert

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2008 9:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone think of this yet

Kenny George?
He is 7'7 i believe.

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Jan 12, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, and then

the Tyler Hansbroughs of the world will dunk on him. Video mentioned in some other thread, don't remember...

by Jaina on Jan 12, 2008 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, not the Tyler Hansbroughs...

Tyler Hansbrough, that's it. And speaking of Tyler Hansbrough, he's also leading the NCAA in Free Throw Attempts (and hitting 82% to boot).

If the Bulls end up with a lower lottery pick, I would love to see them get this guy. He's double and triple teamed every game UNC plays, and still manages to put up great numbers. In today's overtime win vs FSU he was 12-14 from the free throw line, and had 22 rebounds to go with his 21 points. He is one-man gang in the post.

"Otherwise we'd be like Chicago is today," Heisley said, "and gotten nothing done."

by alec on Feb 3, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wasn't a knock on Hansbrough

it was a knock on a 7'7 guy who lets a guy nearly a foot shorter dunk on him... with total ferocity too. after the dunk the dude runs back with his head down.

i don't watch enough college ball to make any decisions about players but no doubt Tyler is talented. i'm just saying we shouldn't spend a pick on a 7'7 guy who doesn't know what he's doing.

by Jaina on Feb 3, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply you did.

I was just trying to bring the focus directly onto Hansbrough. The truth is, all I'm trying to do is psych myself up to feel good about who the Bulls are likely to have available to them at the bottom end of the lottery.

Most draft sites say Hansbrough will go around number 20. Some have the Bulls taking Hibbert, some Budinger. I don't know if Hansbrough will make it big in the pros. He's strong but undersized to play power forward, and with his inside game he might not be able to the basket. That's why I like to see his dunks on 7 and ½ footers.

"Otherwise we'd be like Chicago is today," Heisley said, "and gotten nothing done."

by alec on Feb 4, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hansbrough

its a bit strange how people always bring this up but then you get players like boozer who are just good offensive although short power players. There are some other examples out there too like Elton Brand. Glen Davis is doing pretty well so far, millsap, craig smith.

I know for that for every success stories there are 10 counter examples, but I am just saying that sometimes people look way too much into athletic traits in evaluating nba players success, cough cough tyrus thomas. that was a cheap shot. the verdict is still out on him.

by Sambossanova on Feb 7, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree

I've been (not so) subtly pushing Hansbrough for weeks. I like to point out his 360 breakaway dunks, things like that. I think there's a perception that he's some knind of plodding musclehead. He's not. He's really quick around the basket, with an incredible knack for converting in close.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 7, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hansbrough

reminds me of Elton Brand. But he seems a bit quicker around the basket.

Some likeness also to Milsap. I say he'll be a solid NBA player at PF and a good draft pick.

I haven't seem if he can get a 10-12 foot shot off against taller defenders (similiar to Carlos Boozer)? If he has this skill he'll be even better..

by exult463 on Feb 7, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've studied shorter PFs

and from what I can see there are some common physical traits that come out in the official measurements that indicate separate the successes (Brand, Boozer, Al Jefferson, etc), from the failures (Baxter, Sweetney, Shelden Williams.

Height. It's not the end of the world if you're under it, but most of the really successful guys end up being a legit 6'7.5" or higher. Start going under that and you can be successful (Milsap is only 6'6.25" in bare shoes, but he's clearly a notch below the other sort of successful guy. He's a successful role player, they're lynchpin sort of pieces).
Standing reach. Guys that are unsuccessful tend to be built like tanks Take Shelden Williams and Carlos Boozer. Williams is 6'7.5 and Boozer is 6'7.75". Williams has a 7'4.25" wingspan and Boozer's is only 7'2.25". However, Shelden's only got an 8'8" standing reach while Boozer's is 9'0.25".

This is an example of what I found in general. Among otherwise similar guys (short, stocky PFs), those with reaches under about 8'11" tend to do significantly worse.

3. Lateral quickness and sprinting aren't completely determinative (I don't think any one stat is completely determinative) but the successful guys tend to be at least respectable, whereas the less successful guys tend to lag quite a bit.

Bringing it back to Hansbrough, I'm very interested to know what sort of body type he ends up at. A lot of times I think measurement is overrated, but in his case I think it'll be important.

by Sports2 on Feb 11, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think PF

is the most physically demanding position in basketball. That's why you see guys like PJ and Joe Smith, Weber, etc, start to drift out, away from the paint as they get older. You gotta be strong, tough, really willing to mix it up with guys just as big or bigger, and somehow stay off the injured list.

I see that kind of player mentality in Hansbrough. He's crazy tough.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 11, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is all very good analysis

You bring more to this site than most.

I'd be curious to see how Marion fits in to the above pattern - without ever having seen a definitive note of his measurements, I'd guess he's only 6'7" and change, but with long arms (good wingspan AND standing reach). He's obviously much different as far as style of play, too, which can't be ignored - throw him on Utah (to try to take Boozer's spot) and he might suck.

The determinative issue vis-a-vis Hansbrough is how the Bulls finish this season and what they're looking for. If they keep sucking and/or get lucky in the lottery and get a top 6 or 8 pick, you have to think they're looking to get a potential All-Star, a guy who could be the first or second offensive option. If they wind up at the end-of-the-lottery or just outside the lottery range, then a guy (like Hans) who looks like he could be a strong, solid contributor, good on defense and rebounding, but without the All-Star ceiling, might be worth looking into.

Unfortunately, they already have a lot of guys like that, and I'm not sure what Hansbrough would add. You can't have compete with 1 raw, high-jumping Tyrus and 6 role-players.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 11, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hollinger

sets his cutoff at 6'9"

Tyler Hansbrough would tumble out of the top 20 entirely [of his draft rater if he turns out to be only 6-8.

Right now he's 13th.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Dra ftRater-080131&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fdraft2008%2 finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dhollinger_john%26page%3dDraftRater-080131

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Feb 11, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have specified no shoes

The heights I were looking at were without shoes. So if you add an inch on the assumption that Hollinger is talking about guys in shoes (the way most folks do), then 6'9" is probably about right.

I've just started looking at heights without shoes because so many people tend to try and game things now by showing up in heels.

* Bayern thanks!

I've actually got a database of draft measurements (I hope to get it up sometime on my site, but let's face it, I'm lazy) and Marion measured 6'5" in bare feet and 215lbs before the draft. So yeah, he's a really huge outlier in terms of size for playing the 4, and even a bit undersized for the 3 (he's seemed to play both). I do think he's probably added about 10-15lbs since then, but he's still a totally different kind of guy than the big burly dudes.

by Sports2 on Feb 11, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

by chgobr on Jan 12, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paxs

scouting Hibbert Jan 9, 2008? For what? There ain't much more too see. If you're working professionally in basketball today and you haven't seem by now what Hibbert brings, then what planet are you living on?

With Noah, and Gray already on the team, how about scouting some player development personnel?
Hibbert aint no franshise player by any stretch of the imagination.

Ooh! I now get it? Watching college basketball is more fun than watching your Chicago Bulls that's why you went to the game!

Paxson's strategy build a team of character guys (i.e. role players) from good college programs isn't working. Try tweaking your strategy .. instead of character guys but take the team's leader by example from these same programs? Doesn't leadership usually imply character and drive by example imply offense and/or motivation? Triple Play! If you build a team on talented leaders, they won't mope and complain like the bunch on the team now.

Look for motivated, driven, talented (offense), leader type players in the draft.

Stop this stuff about "we believe he will develope" "we believe he will be a leader one day", "we believe he will be a scorer one day". If he ain't one now chances are he won't be one later. Stop trying to be these kids dad believing for them.

by exult463 on Feb 3, 2008 4:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yes

And let's try to get a big name Center to be our player coach (like oh say Ewing, Olajuwon, even Mourning, or maybe David Robinson, Robert Parrish, etc).

I hated Karl Malone as aplayer (really I liked him until we started playing them in the finals and then I learned to hate him) but I guess he'd be good too.

We'd never get Horace back after Reinsdorf blasted him out of town....

But let's get one of these guys or a similar awesome former talented all star to coach our bigs every day at least in the offseason. I'd much rather see that then what we're getting.

I know we partially paid Ben Wallace to coach our guys, but Ben can't coach offense even when he was a solid player (last season) and thus his help on D is useless for guys who are naturally solid defenders--instictively anyway.

by majoyenrac on Feb 5, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

You bring up some great potential big man coaches and one great potential player-coach..
(Ewing, Olajuwon, even Mourning, or maybe David Robinson, Robert Parrish)

Mourning seems to loves his hometown, and he still wants to play if his body will hold up. If Paxson could lure him and he plays only a very little, or none at all but could teach. Then this would be the guy to have. I believe once he went down, Miami's interior defense was destroyed. He still has so much fire and passion at nearly 40 years old. He could help Noah and Aaron. Maybe Tyrus, but I'm not sure if the Bulls are positioning Ty2 as a 3 or 4?

by exult463 on Feb 7, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mourning's from Virginia.

by CrashDavis on Feb 7, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

It would be pretty sweet and nice to pay the BIG MAN COACH as our highest paid assistant coach....I mean we have enough young talent and high draft picks (Noah, Thomas, Gray, even 6-9 Deng) that a Big Man coach might help a bit, I mean a real big man coach.

Zo would be awesome, he'd fit the Chicago D-mindset, but he also once upon a time was a solid offensive player too. Still I expect Riley will get first dibs at him, and I'd be shocked if the Bulls could grab him.

I know Cartwright was a decent big man and he was our head coach, but Cartwright was more a jump shooting big man anyway, let's get a banger and show guys like Tyrus (who's future lies in his ability to play near the basket) and Noah (who is the same) how to get the job done.

It's very frustrating. Much as the BEARS have struggled with their big men C's, the Bulls have in recent memory struggled at the C position....(I guess not so much with Rodman and Horace at the 4 spot 10 yrs ago, but of late we really haven't given our bigs enough time to mature in a Bulls uniform, and I also think a lot of that "time to mature" issue is because the Bulls didn't hire a FT great big man coach to assist them....

by majoyenrac on Feb 11, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is Thabeet and Hibbert

falling to 9 and 13 in NBADraft.net?

by chgobr on Feb 7, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

For one, neither of them

is even as polished as Aaron Gray. I don't think Pax should be looking at those guys. We already have our 'situational' big guy.

The Bulls are starting to gather more athletic guys. I'd like to see that trend continue. Get waves of athletes.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 8, 2008 1:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They need a scorer.

I have a feeling they're not going to keep Gordon, and so they'll be drafting for the most likely place to find a scorer, SG. They need someone that w/in three years can score 20-25 a game, like Gordon, but can hopefully bring a more-rounded game such as ball-handling, defense, more consistent driving (whether it's a tall person is irrelevant), etc.

I don't know if that's in the draft or in FA. I'd prefer the draft (I like Lee, Budinger or Rush w/ qualifications), but I know others want more immediate results.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Feb 8, 2008 9:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I find myself holding out

irrationally, I'm sure, for Maggette to somehow fill that role for us.

"No, no. Stop talking to me. Someone might notice," Paxson squeaked.

by alec on Feb 8, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if you mention it a few more times today

it might come true. There haven't been any diaries about Maggette lately, either.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 11, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with this

both the feeling that they're not trying to bring Gordon back, and the need to get a really good scorer at SG to replace him.

Unfortunately, those guys aren't terribly common, and the teams that have them tend to hang on to them. So we draft talent and hope for the best, I guess.

by Bayern Munich on Feb 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thabeet

is nasty he is lost out on the court. I was watching a game a week ago and he was lost out there on defense and that is supposed to be his strong point. He blocks shots because he is so frickin tall, but his defensive awareness would get his team killed in the NBA. Sadly, Aaron Gray is a better option for this Bulls team. The Bulls need to find another scorer.

by Jesse07 on Feb 11, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess you weren't watching Saturday

When he had 24 points, 15 rebounds, and 6 blocks and was the single biggest reason they won that game. He's definitely far from ready to play in the NBA, but he is an extremely athletic 7'3. The guy just started playing basketball a few years ago. Whenever he does catch up he'll be a much taller version of Dalembert.

by cjurmann on Feb 11, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dalembert?

That's a resounding endorsement. Dalembert is a big reason that Chandler is no longer a bull.

Goodbye Viktor, and Godspeed.

by bullshooter on Feb 11, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Chandler is irrelevant at this point.

Dalembert is an average to above average Center in this league. Not too bad considering Thabeet's expected to be drafted mid first round.

by cjurmann on Feb 11, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The One To Watch!

The Bulls won't end up being bad enough for a good pick, or good enough for a bad pick, obvious choice--Chris Douglas-Roberts!! http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Chris-Douglas-Roberts-506/ He will go pro, and he will be good! P.S You heard it here first!

by A Train Afro 53 on Feb 13, 2008 11:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Given the choice

Who would you rather take in the draft Thabeet or Hibbert?

by jpchi on Feb 21, 2008 7:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Isn't one giant slow guy enough?

I've always been attracted to crazy, intense, competitive...and productive guys. When I look around college basketball, I only see one guy like that.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure Mark "Mad Dog" Madsen

had the same bio at Stanford.

by RogersPark Kris on Feb 21, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Try makin' the same case

after this year's Naismith award is announced.

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is that the same award that Redick won?

by Big D on Feb 21, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

I guess it is, yeah. After this trade I'm completely confused about the draft. Do the Bulls move up or down or completely out of the lottery? Do we now have a shot at Derrick Rose?

by eGirl on Feb 21, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a touch call

but when I saw them play head-up, Roy definitely got the better of him. On the other hand, I can't see Hibbert as anything better than an average NBA center, whereas Thabeet has a considerably higher upside.

I take Thabeet. His improvement from his freshman to sophomore year has been pretty high, and there's no reason to think someone 7'3, with that kind of athleticism, can't continue to improve.

But I take Brook Lopez over either, in a heart beat. Come on, ping pong balls....

by Freethefro on Feb 21, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thabeet in a heartbeat

over Hibbert. At worst, Thabeet is a Diop. Chances are he'll be more like Chandler, but better at blocking shots.

7'3" guys who run the floor like he does don't come around often. I'm surprised he's only projected to go mid-lottery in what looks like a pretty mediocre draft.

by YaoPau on Feb 21, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What are

the chance of Blake Griffin coming out this draft? Also, who would you rather take out of Bayless, Mayo and Gordon? They are roughly the same size and put up the same stats and all are good athletes.

by jpchi on Feb 29, 2008 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

IF i had to pick

E. Gordon

Why? The perfect replacement for ben gordon, similar playing styles, similar abilities, only difference, E is a bit bigger then B. They could just reuse Ben Gordons jersey and and give it to him. I think the biggest fault of Gordon is his Height, so thats why.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 1, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo

Because he is a "slasher" & has star power.

by Jesse07 on Mar 3, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo is probably the best fit for the Bulls.

Not a great defender, but better then Gordon and has more size/better athlete than Gordon. Maybe he can mature into a Jason Richardson 'type' player.

Can't think of any stand out point guards in this years draft. Usually the tournament brings out some stellar players tho.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Derrick Rose ( Memphis PG?)

by Jesse07 on Mar 3, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he'd work

I would take Rose or Mayo. A bit worried that the Bulls will end up with just a good enough record to fall out of the race for those top guys. They probably need a top 5 pick at least.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 3, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mention Rose

in my question because I think that he seems to be the least likely of the freshman to drop out of the top 3.

by jpchi on Mar 4, 2008 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo: head case

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just say no

The best route may be for the Bulls to trade away their rights to whatever draft pick they end up with. We have enough development projects to start our own city.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Feb 29, 2008 4:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez

Brook Lopez is who pax wants. I have a pretty good idea and my friends who know pax think this is the guy.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 2, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

...and according to HoopsHype

he's even blessed with a high basketball IQ.

by eGirl on Mar 2, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Brook Lopez... NOOOO!

I watch Pac 10 basketball religiously. Lopez is good in college because there aren't guys his size in college. Just not a lot of 7'1 guys playing 4 years of college ball. I don't think he is better than Noah and I don't think he improves this team next year.

Pax needs to take a chance on a guy who could blossom into an all-star. In this draft Beasley, Rose, Bayless, Augustine, Randolph and Westbrook qualify. I haven't seen Blake Griffin play. Lopez, Lawson, Jordan, and Gordon do not qualify. Nice players, not future all-stars

by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Beasley

I would trade Tyrus & Gorden or Tryus & our pick to get Beasley. Paxson needs to find a way to get a star.

by Jesse07 on Mar 3, 2008 9:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jerryd Bayless

best guard in college. can play point and is a natural scorer from the perimeter and can finish around the basket. just a freshman, but if he is in the draft he should be a priority... and easier to get than Beasley.

I watch a lot of pac 10, brook lopez is not that good just big enough to put up stats in college. possible backup in the NBA.

by Zac23 on Mar 3, 2008 11:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I've tried to make this case before,

well, not only me...a bunch of people here have made the case for the Bulls desperate need of a point guard.

In the spirit of all the stat guys here, I was trying to look up the college assist totals for the point guards who've eventually made it big in the NBA.

I can't really make a hard and fast statistical statement, but I did notice that guys who've gone on to nba point guard glory were primarily assist leaders, rather than scoring leader in college...Deron Williams and Chris Paul, for example, in the class of 2005.

When I looked ahead to the class of 2006, guess who I found atop the assist board for the entire ncaa? You're right, my old favorite, Marcus Williams.

So, rather than try to draft a point guard, why not swap someone we already have for Williams, and try to fill another position in the draft?

by eGirl on Mar 3, 2008 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

with the point guard idea. If you take a look at David West's numbers in his second year, they were worse than TT's this year. Suddenly, Chris Paul arrives and David West becomes more than just an average starter.

by jpchi on Mar 3, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

David West has been given the minutes(shocking how that works) to improve and polish his offensive game. Add that to Paul and you have an All-Star, just like how CP3 has made Chandler a monster. But, you definitely are on the right track. The way the rules are now, a point guard who can beat you off the dribble is absolutely necessary for any team. I say take a look at either Crittendon or Kyle Lowry, because Memphis will be willing to deal them with some kind of Mike Miller deal.

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 3, 2008 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like your idea

I've been looking at the college point guards too and I don't think anyone besides Augustine is even remotely a good fit.

And I'm a huge Bayless fan. He goes to my favorite college and went to my high school. So I won't be upset if the Bulls get him. But what we need is a true pg. The Nets obviously aren't high on Williams. You could sign and trade Gordon for Williams and something else.

by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish Pax could read this

Maybe it's a sily idea, because i don't konw if would be possible, but here it goes...

1 - Get a new coach. We all agree that boylan sucks and with him we are not going to win nothing.We need someone who can guide young gyus and make the team play good basketball

2 - try, by all necessary means, acquire Beasley and Rose. both guys are really good and can be stars in the future. if we can trade one, try to find new guys that can become one

3 - use Kirk, Hughes, Noc, Gooden and all the other crap that we have in our roster - BG can stay, but only if he agrees to sign a low contract - to negociate with the teams that will draft Beasley and Rose, because i think that they won't lead us to any championship

4 - secure thabo, tt, deng and noah, the only members of our team that have potencial

5 - sign Marion. If the Heat let us do that, i think we should try get him...

6 - draft a good center, like roy hibbert or something, to compete with noah.

By said that, our roster would be

PG - Rose and Curry/Shannon
SG - BG and Thabo
SF - Deng and Beasley
PF - TT and Marion
C - Noah and other

p.s. sorry for my english, i'm portuguese :D:D:D

by bull83 on Mar 4, 2008 9:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Mike Ditka do something like this

in New Orleans? Traded all their draft picks for the chance to move up to number one...and got the biggest pot head in the history of the league.

I'm not saying either Rose or Beasley will turn out like Ricky Williams, but, as some here have already mentioned, trading all your assets for one unknown quantity is an awefully big risk.

Where is that cross sporting draft thread, anyway?

by alec on Mar 4, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you've got it right

he ruined the Saints for a long time.

I believe Dan Devine did the same thing in Green Bay in the early 70s. Crippled the team for a long, long time.

sniff

Hey, despite Brett's retirement, we still have the best quarterback in the division!

by KT on Mar 4, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kemp, you mentioned nbadraft.net

on a different thread, so I had a look at it (yep, there was Westbrook to the Bulls)...not that I'm suggesting the Bulls spend a lottery pick on him, but does anyone really believe Tyler Hansbrough will go undrafted? I mean, I know there are questions about his actual height, and draftexpress mentions a possible lack of defensive explosiveness...but undrafted?

Someone here compared him to Mad Dog, but it took Madsen two full seasons to match one season's worth of Hansbrough's point and rebound totals (well, almost).

by alec on Mar 4, 2008 1:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's flawed like that.

Also has Budinger, a probable lottery pick, going undrafted. However, he was getting drafted 7th-9th a month or so go. Brandon Rush from KU isn't on there either. Neither is Courtney Lee: mid-major darling. I think it's a programming thing that anytime they add someone (like Westbrook), the player in that spot previously, gets booted. They're just too stupid to notice.

Don't know if this one's any better, but it has more content. Has your boy going at 18.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 4, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nbadraft

didn't have them going undrafted, they had them entering the draft in 2009 not this year. They did the same thing to Blake Griffin.

by jpchi on Mar 4, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe if Hansbrough

stays in college one more year he can grow up to Hollinger's magic 6'9".

by alec on Mar 4, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they actually have Budinger in the 2009 draft

they don't think he is going pro this year.

by danger mouse on Mar 4, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My fault.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 4, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Update:

Budinger's apparently testing the waters, entering the draft right now, but leaving the door open to a return to UA.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/233328.php

There's a lot of hype about the guys that performed well in the tournament, and deservedly so, but keep in mind that Budinger was rated pretty highly before this college season, when it wasn't known whether he was staying or leaving for this draft.

Also of note, Roy Hibbert, who was projected as a top 10 pick last year, has fallen all the way to the end of the first round after staying for his senior season. nbadraft.net has him going #25 to the Rockets.

Hibbert's only one more in the trend that includes Joakim Noah and other draft notables from the past. So maybe Budinger should just take what he can get now.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 8, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Man...

you are really taking that comment out of context. It was, someone mentioning Westbrook, me never having heard Westbrook, and looking at NBAdraft.net to see where he was projected. Magically it happened to be the Bulls, when they had been projected to pick Thabeet.

by Kemp on Mar 4, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What? Never before have I been accused

of taking anything out of context. I make it a point of personal pride to stay on topic at all times.

by alec on Mar 4, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nicholas Batum

They have the Bulls drafting Batum, not Westbrook with the 10th pick in the draft. 6-8 guard. Seems athletic.

by BarryLird on Mar 24, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon and our number 1

For Beasley?

I'm for it

Fuck it

I give up

by Option27 on Mar 4, 2008 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Can't trade Gordon

since he'll be a (restricted) free agent.

by Sports2 on Mar 10, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If...

the Bulls could turn their pieces into the fourth pick and keep their 10th, they could get Lopez and Mayo and probably keep Deng/Hinrich/Thabo/Thomas or Noah.

PG: Hinrich/Hughes
SG: Mayo/Thabo
SF: Deng/Noc
PF: Thomas/Gooden
C: Lopez/Gray

To me that would be ideal.

by Kemp on Mar 4, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ESPN Lottery Mock Draft

ESPN is featuring their draft lottery toy on the front page, so I gave it a few clicks to see where they have the Bulls going.

Our current (record-following) spot is 9th. With that pick, Chad Ford has us taking Blake Griffin:

Blake Griffin (6-10, 240 Power Forward - Oklahoma) - A tenacious rebounder, Griffin is one of the strongest players in the draft, reminding some scouts of Carlos Boozer. He is quick on his feet and also has a number of moves to get his shot off in the paint. His game is still raw, however: he doesn't have much of a jump shot and makes a lot of mistakes defensively.

Blake is our standard pick for those times we end up with the 10th pick as well, with an occasional dose of Marreese Speights:

Marreese Speights (6-10, 250 Center - Florida) - One of the more efficient big men in college hoops, Speights is built like a brick house. He's improved his face-up game to the point where defenders struggle to guard him, and he's an excellent rebounder and a solid shot-blocker. But while he can dominate, sometimes he just disappears.

With those 1.4% chances we get the #1 pick, he has us (and 99.9% of all the scenarios) taking Beasley.

Michael Beasley (6-9, 235 Poward Forward - Kansas St) - Beasley has the power and athleticism to dominate the paint and has the shooting chops to take his defender past the 3-point line. Scouts worry about his reputation as an unmotivated player who could cause problems on his team, but he has been on his best behavior at Kansas State.

At the #2 or #3 pick, Chad says we take Derrick Rose or DeAndre Jordan:

Derrick Rose (6-4, 195 Point Guard - Memphis) - A great floor leader with exceptional court vision, Rose has the ability to take over a game. He is nearly impossible to stay in front of on the offensive end, and he's a scrappy defender. hsi long-range shooting ability is a concern. But some scouts say he's in the same league as Chris Paul and Deron Williams as an elite point guard prospect.

DeAndre Jordan (7-0, 240 Center - Texas A&M) - A legit 7-footer, Jordan has explosive leaping ability and great speed getting up and down the floor. The comparisons to Dwight Howard are inevitable. But right now, he doesn't have a great low-post moves, he lacks a reliable jump shot, and he can be mistake prone. Scouts also question his motor and dedication to the game.

Thoughts on Blake?

by torch on Mar 5, 2008 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Other than some....

...thinking he'll stay another year?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 6, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We have enough "raw"

TT has been raw for almost 2 full seasons now, the team hasn't done anything to develop him. Adding another PF to the mix is supposed to help, when we all know they're going to give 35 min to Gooden?

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 6, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would like a Guard

ANOTHER GUARD? Well yes, and take two of our guards and trade them in a package to get a proven big man.

Kirk Hinrich. The Best White American Point Guard in the NBA.

by piccolomair on Mar 8, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

stanford vs ucla

is on csn right now. for anyone interested, we get to see lopez and westbrook.

by alec on Mar 6, 2008 10:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Heard a new name tonight

watching sports center. Anyone ever heard of Vanilla Sky--Joe Alexander from W Virginia? Bobby Knight called him the best player in the country over the last part of this season.

Here's from their pregame lay-up drill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeLyIMmtRus&feature=related

or here, dunking from the free throw line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKY3ashUMI&feature=related

If the Bulls do actually get into the play-offs and have to kiss the lottery good-bye, we might be looking at a guy like this in the draft.

by alec on Mar 12, 2008 11:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My list still goes...

...Budinger, Lee, Rush.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 13, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

AAC Tourny

is on right now--West Virginia vs UConn, and Joe Alexander is singlehandedly ruining UConn. First time I've seen him play. Good player.

by alec on Mar 13, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Budinger would be decent as a Bull...

... but it's doubtful he would leave if Bayless (who by all rights should leave) and Jennings are there next year. With Hill coming back (unless he wants to be a low 2nd rounder) AU has national championship aspirations next year... Which means they'll probably lose 14 games again.

Than again, maybe Buddinger would have to leave if for no other reason than his draft position would no doubt suffer being the third option on AU.

Too many variables at this point.

by Khalid El-Amin on Mar 14, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Love

Anybody else impressed with this kid? He doesn't have the athleticism of a DeAndre Jordan, but he has the post game and court sense of a longtime NBA veteran. Even better, he'll likely be around for the Bulls pick.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_EZpTcNMOg <-- the hook shot at the :47 mark is beauteous.

by YaoPau on Mar 13, 2008 2:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that guys a stud.

He's a freshman and looks like a full grown man. Only problem is that if he declares, he'll be long gone by the Bulls pick.

by alec on Mar 13, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sure he's got nba quickness

but he has all the skills. Matched up with the right pg, I can see him developing a great screen and roll game ala Karl Malone. Soft hands, great court awareness, good shot from the arc, clears out the space he needs, doesn't back down from contact. And, oh, those outlets.

by California Al on Mar 14, 2008 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wes Unseld

was the last NBA player to be able to throw those full-court two-handed chest passes. This kid will have an Elton Brand-like career. And, if we keep playing like we did last night, he could be available. I'd like to see a lineup of Noah, TT, Love, Thabo and a real point guard in about three years. Impenetrable D and about 40 fast-break points a game. All we need now is for John Wooden to come in and coach.

by Cannoli on Mar 15, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know your outlet passes, paisan

Unseld was the exact comparison I was thinking of. And for the true point guard, I think Collison might be, like Jordan at NC, even better than he appears because he's so willing to play within the system. Every once in a while, a gameflow dictates he has to take over (like against Stanford yesterday), and wham, 28 points. We know he's got the d and quarterbacking, but the dude seemingly can score at will. One of my all-time college great pg's. Now, how do we get him and Love? And Ben Howland.

by California Al on Mar 17, 2008 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Collison

I've watched about 15 games with Collison and Love, and I'm really impressed with both. As for Howland, I'd take him in a nanosecond. As we continue to lose games and rise in the draft, Love becomes a live possibility. This team is the living embodiment of the Peter Principle, to wit, people rise to their level of incompetency. I'm all for starting over. It'll be much more fun.

by Cannoli on Mar 18, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Howland is exactly

the coach Reinsdorf described a couple of days ago. Why couldn't we find him before UCLA did? Alas, he probably has one of the 2-3 most prestigious jobs in BB and would be showing some serious s/m tendencies to to give it up and come here. Re Collsion, I watched the Maui tourney last year and it was love at first sight. Q U I C K! And like I said, there's a chance that he may be better than he's showing at UCLA.

by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Love: Also,

apart from concerns about his physical ability at the NBA level, the Noah/Love combo is really intiguing. They both seem to get to balls that it appears they have no chance at. When people laugh at the BB IQ cliche, that innate sense of the physics and geometry of the game is a part of it.

by California Al on Mar 19, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha. I like where you're going here

with your musing on BB IQ. At present, I've mothballed my work-in-progress BB IQ diary, but part of the idea was to compare traditional aspects of IQ tests to a BB skills environment.

For example, you mention an "innate sense of the physics and geometry of the game." This might be analogous to the "spatial" part of a S.B. IQ test. For those unfamiliar with it, you have to compare shapes by rotating them and turning them inside out in your imagination to see what matches up with what.

A top notch rebounder might be said to measure high in this area--a Dennis Rodman type, or maybe a Marcus Camby would earn points here--someone who can track the ball on its way to the hoop in his mind's eye, determine rebound distance and angle, and beat other players to the spot.

by alec on Mar 19, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was gonna say the same thing

about rodman. he was incredible at knowing where the ball was going by the way it bounced off the rim/glass.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn-the-man Rodman

I really miss watching Dennis Rodman play. That guy was just an animal going after rebounds and loose balls. Absolutely relentless.

And there was something about how hard he worked during games that made his off-the-court, alternative nuttiness palatable, even endearing.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 19, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol even though he's crazy

he's really interesting. i watched some special about him, can't remember what exactly it was.

heh i share a birthday with him! he's much older than i am, of course.

by Jaina on Mar 19, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You also probably

both have nice nail polish, and look good in a Vera Wang (just a guess).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol!!

i don't typically wear nail polish, and haven't gotten married yet. but those both could theoretically be true. :)

by Jaina on Mar 20, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you might be onto something there

I don't know a thing about how intelligence is measured, but I intuitively know that there are different types, and whether it's in athletics, music, mechanics or academics, some people just get "it" easier than others. That's where the MJ's, Magics, Rodmans, etc separate themselves. We all see the same set of circumstances, and they anticipate the outome, with all of it variances, so much better than anyone else, like a speed chessmaster. If that IQ can be quantified, the scouts would really be onto something.

BTW, you take a lot of crap (psychobabble) sometimes for trying to look into the causes behind the effects, but I usually find your posts food for thought.

by California Al on Mar 21, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for it--

I tend to think that the current Bulls roster along with an NBA-ready big replacing, say, Chris Duhon, would do pretty well.

It could be Love, or it could be Jordan (if available) or even some of the other bigs on the board, depending on how patient the Bulls want to be.

There seems to be a feeling out there that the Bulls need a pass-first PG, and though I'm not disagreeing, the other thing I could see happening is the Bulls drafting a 3 with the thought that Deng is expendible. That way, if Deng is healthy and comes through with a huge season, they can trade the newly drafted 3.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 17, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Alexander from West Virginia is impressive

Great athlete, inch taller then Budinger, great mid range jumper and efficient player and scorer.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 14, 2008 11:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm looking forward to following him through

the tournament. I hope they get in. I saw a graphic that had him move ahead of Ben Gordon into first place in terms of conference tourny scoring average after at least two games. Yeah, it's only two games. Let's see how he does against G'town.

by alec on Mar 14, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This team is a piece of work, get rid of Gordon

These guys will be gone next year; Gordon, DuHon, and Hinrich. Were probably going to have the 9th or 10th pick and I think that Italian kid Gallinari is something special. A legit 6'9" and proven player who has a great jumper and solid fundamentals.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 15, 2008 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

LOL

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 15, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That last sentence was pretty awesome, huh?

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 15, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

gallinari

I would trade of deng if you are gonna draft one of the eurostars in this years draft who are both better fit for Sf position.

I like the idea of drafting either of them a lot more than deandre whatever his name is. They would be less of a project having played in top leagues already and against international competition as opposed to some raw 7 footer with freakish athleticism. That said, they should trade the pick. I see a sign and trade with Deng as a better deal cause he is more highly regarded (we would supposedly get something veyr good in return like a starting caliber center) and we already have depth at sf (Thabo, hughes, Nocioni).

by Sambossanova on Mar 16, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As long as one is willing to get laughed at

(a willingness I've demonstrated time again), Gallinari-talk can be fair game.

So, Gallinari.... It used to be that we had to rely on faith alone when Euro names got dropped into prospect conversations. Now, we can see for ourselves.

Here's something very interesting about Gallinari--he's the second leading Euro player in free throw attempts and makes. I gotta say I like that a lot out of a small forward.

If you look at him on youtube you can see he drives to the basket A LOT...gets fouled...still makes the shot, and then gets to the line.

In a fairly recent game he got to the line 17 times, or about a season's worth for Deng.

by alec on Mar 26, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My pick would be

Kenny Goerge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jD1VyPHecc great athleticism, good low post moves and the savior to all our problems. Of course im joking but we NEED to get Andre Jordan.

by eross226 on Mar 15, 2008 6:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

DeAndre Jordan

by eross226 on Mar 15, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dj Augustin?

Bob Knights keeps raving about how hard he is to guard, and his quickness and leadership.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 15, 2008 7:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sam's draft prospects

You can find them here.

I'm not in draft mode yet (and am not a college bball fan) but it's funny to see how far Hibbert has fallen. Early in the draft season last year, I was hoping the Bulls would grab him.

by paxson43 on Mar 17, 2008 6:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He looks no better than Aaron Gray

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 17, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

AW MAN

I am regretting opening up this diary and finding your comment, and then clicking on that link to your old post.

DAMN

What were we supposed to be, and what have we fallen to? I almost teared up when i read your "words from the future", it was well written, too bad the future it came from doesnt exist on this plane. Props for the story, and causing these droplets of salt water from streaming down my cheeks.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 18, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I still have hope for next season. I can't bring myself to read the game thread from last night because I'd almost rather not know exactly how the Bulls blew it. I'm going to pacify myself by believing that Pax has this all under control and that he is purposely playing Hughes and Gooden to boost their value and has asked Hinrich to play like crap to lower the value of Deng and Gordon so they can both be re-signed for cheap.

Keep believing, man.

by paxson43 on Mar 18, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hibbert, no way he's regressed, and is too skinny

hibbert is even slower than Gray. I think unless pax finds a good point guard the pick will be traded.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 17, 2008 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Whoa, hold on...

Why would the Bulls trade a top-10 pick when they're clearly not even in the conversation when it comes to contenders? Unless there's a player out there who (1) is available and (2) will put the Bulls into 'contender' mode instantly, I really doubt the Bulls will trade this pick.

I mean, the Suns have traded their pick away a few times, but they're considered a contender and want to win right now rather than put effort (and salary) into development of a rookie. The Bobcats and Rockets traded high draft picks away, but got a star (Jason Richardson) and an x-factor/glue-guy/wiley veteran-type to put the team over the top (Shane Battier).

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 17, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you.

In fact, I think it's more likely the Bulls package a guy and make an effort to move up a few spots than trade out of the lottery.

by alec on Mar 17, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea of trading high in the draft

I like the idea of getting elton brand even more so. Dont know if its possible ( i tried using trade machine but it wont let me trade brand for whatever reason) but i would like to keep ben gordon and hinrich, trade hughes and gooden and get elton brand. Is that even possible? I dont want another rookie just because i would like to see THabo and Tyrus develop more, and having another rookie with potential would either hinder there development, or would hinder the development of said rookie.

Thus it is better to get a proven player like elton brand, who at very least can help compliment noah, and giving away gooden would allow thomas to at least get some more minutes. Our guards are flawed, true, but if we establish a good frontline, then maybe the short comings of a lack of a tall shooter, or pure pg will also be erased. A new coach i think is what is the most important piece right now.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 18, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The mid-lottery is the phantom zone

of this draft--just high enough to compel a GM to make a "name" selection, and just low enough to have that name go nowhere at the next level.

Sam mentions Joe Alexander, JaVale McGee, Gallinari and DJ Augunstin--not quite household names that might take a couple years under the radar to develop. That might be the best we can hope for out of the draft.

by alec on Mar 17, 2008 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's more about strength of draft

This year at first glance seems weak, but usually what happens by draft time is the European players and high schoolers get involved to strengthen the lottery. If we had to go strictly on college ball players, not much superstar potential after 5.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 17, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course, no more high schoolers,

but I think you were probably making a historical reference. I wouldn't mind (yet another) combo guard, if he was a guy with some size and a demonstrable desire to get to the free throw line. Maybe that sounds like OJ Mayo. Or Eric Gordon, or Bayless, but I don't know if they'll fall far enough...or if the Bulls would package a move up a few spots.

by alec on Mar 17, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Walker

This kid would be perfect for our team. He's a proven warrior and tough competitor. He also has world class athleticism and is truly better than Mayo, Love and Budinger. Athletes like him don't come around often and I think he could be the next Vince Carter/Paul Pierce without the injuries. At 6'6.5" and 220 pounds of solid muscle he is a must take in the mid lottery for the bulls.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 20, 2008 11:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

jerryd bayless

this guy is incredible. his athleticism and the way he gets up to the rim 6'3" is incredible. unlike eric gordon, deandre jordan, beasley, and derrick rose, he might be available if the bulls get a pick somewhere around the 8, 9, or 10 spot.

by hughes sucks on Mar 21, 2008 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Bayless

Bayless is too small, I don't want another Ben Gordon.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 21, 2008 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Shan Foster

nbadraft.net has him going #50 in this year's draft, but I gotta think he's one of the top 10 guys out there.

A 6'6" shooting guard, he shot 52.6 FG% and 47.3 3PT% on 281 threes for a ridiculous 68.5 TS%. This seems like Michael Redd Jr., and if we're thinking about moving Gordon and Hughes, I'd like to see us go with a Thabo/Foster backcourt for the future.

Anybody know why he isn't projected higher?

by YaoPau on Mar 21, 2008 7:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I really like

Jerel McNeal, he can really play some defense. If we could only get him in the second round.

by Kemp on Mar 23, 2008 3:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

MOVED DIARY

What do you think of JaVale McGee?

By chgobr [Edit User]
Posted on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM CDT

I've been surfing DraftExpress and NBADraft.net and came across JaVale McGee on NBADraft.net.

Strengths: Long athletic bigman who is absolutely bursting with potential ... Runs the floor exceptionally well ... Improving at a rapid pace on both ends of the floor. Has freakishly long arms: around a 7-6 wingspan which makes him a great rebounder and shot blocker ... Can really become a force defensively when he adds strength and discipline on opponent's shot fakes ... His length makes it extremely difficult for opponents to get shots over ... His offensive game is showing a lot of promise with developing back to the basket skills. He even shows some ability to face the basket and make drives or spot up ... Has a competitive spirit that is not apparent in many bigmen who picked up the game because of their size. A late bloomer who went underrecruited out of Chicago. McGee's parents were both professional basketball players so he has been around the game from a young age ... Shows solid form and touch on his shot ... Has a tremendous frame which should allow him to get much stronger and retain his great agility and athleticism ... Gives great effort and shows very good stamina for a bigman his age ... Added strength will give him better balance and make him a lot more effective imposing his will inside ... Has the potential to be a top 5-10 center in the league someday (if he's patient about entering the NBA) ... Has even shown the ability to knock down shots from college 3, no question influenced by the presence of Nick Fazekas last year ...

Weaknesses: Still must gain maturity. He gets frustrated far too easily and loses his composure quickly when calls go against him, or when he's struggling ... Still growing into his body and game, learning what he's capable of and steadily becoming a factor night in and night out ... Needs to develop some go to moves. A reliable jump hook would make him an absolute force ... Must improve from the free throw line (50% wont cut it). He has solid shooting touch and should be able to raise his FT shooting to at least 70-75 percent over time if he develops a consistent routine and works at it ... Should be wary of leaving school early. It's likely he would be a first rounder this year, but a third year in college would really help him in the long run as he would be much better prepared for the NBA and not run the risk of losing confidence and falling short of his full potential ...

Take a look at the YouTube clip. He seems to have significant offensive skills for a big man. Pair him with Noah and we really may have something special.

I'll keep looking.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 23, 2008 8:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeahhh

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qJilDqw8JOY <-- youtube clip

The play where he blocks a jumpshot, grabs the loose ball, and gets the breakaway dunk is impressive. I haven't seen many 7-footers that can move like that.

He's projected to go #15 now, and from what little I know about him I'd still take him over Hibbert, Hansbrough, and DJ White. He seems like a project though, almost Tyrus Thomas-like in his rawness, and doesn't look to have much of a post game. I wouldn't expect an instant impact.

by YaoPau on Mar 23, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

These highlight reels

are always very impressive. Yet, this is the first I've seen of this kid, still I wouldn't select Hibbert (Matt's, Gray in a different body). Hansbrough a great college player, yet seems NBA bound to be similiar or slightly stronger inside than Shane Battier or Matt Harpring, which aint bad! And this Nevada kids's skill level on this youtube clip far exceeds anything I've seen Tyrus do in college or two years with the Bulls. This kid displays a smoothness and controlled motions in his game which Tyrus doesn't. Tyrus still seems a bit out of control, and unsure what to do with the ball at times. This guy seems polished similiar to the polishness which Aaron Gray displayed straight out of college, but quicker and more fluid in his movement. Yes, this would be a project, but Bryum was also a project which now the Lakers will be benefitting from. Thanks Matt for the find and video YaoPau.

by exult463 on Mar 23, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wasn't me

that was chgobr's diary, I just plunked it in the drooling thread.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 24, 2008 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

He seems alot like tyrus thomas. The only differences i see is that he is much taller, and has actually been around basketball for a fairly long time (whoa, that means high b-ball iq huh?).

Just from looks, he seems to be a good player, but like it was said, those highlight reels, show only highlights, and thus are biased.

I do like that he is a tall guy who has a nice shot, but no post moves???? The bulls arent really great at developing bigs, so i dont see alot of use for this guy. He could be great, but with chicago he probably wont be.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 23, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe with a new coaching staff who knows?

by eross226 on Mar 24, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blake Griffin is the only player worth taking at

our projected spot. I don't want a Patrick O'brient like stiff. Griffin is 6'10" 245 and skilled.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 24, 2008 8:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

A couple guys here (YaoPau? and CalAl?)

are big Kevin Love fans. Did you see this, from Jay Bilas:

Best Player: Kevin Love, UCLA. Love did everything, from scoring to rebounding to blocking shots, and he did it with a maturity beyond his years. Plus, he helped the helpless: rescuing a ball behind the backboard by firing another ball at it, after a referee tried it multiple times and failed. On Wednesday, Love fired a ball 95 feet (standing out of bounds on the baseline) to the other basket ... and drained it ... with a chest pass. It is among the most incredible things I have ever seen on a basketball court. There can't be more than a handful of players on the planet who can do that. Incredible.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney08/insider/columns/story?columnist=bilas_jay&id=330922 1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2fncaatourney08%2finsider% 2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dbilas_jay%26id%3d3309221

by alec on Mar 24, 2008 8:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good to hear I'm not crazy

Nice writeup, thanks for posting that. I think he answered some big questions about his athleticism with his defense in the Texas A&M game against their big, athletic front line.

At 6'10", with that post game, that passing ability, that shooting range, that clutch play, that Noah-like will to win, and at just 19 years old, I can't imagine why he's only projected to go 10th behind guys like Westbrook, Mayo, Griffin and Bayless who haven't proved a thing.

by YaoPau on Mar 24, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Answered questions?

He was unreal. I hadn't seen that shotblocking talent all year. If he has another game or two like that, we won't have to debate whether the Bulls should take him; he'll go top 5.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get the lube ready

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAY_kHrMok

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 25, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another thing I like about Love

is that, physically, he's really solid. He looks like he'd be able to hold his ground against anybody.

NBADraft.net has him available to the Bulls at #9. They actually have the Bulls taking Westbrook. I'm a little worried that Westbrook is too much like too many guys we already have. Off that team, Collison looks like the better ball handler, but I've not even seen them play a whole game this year.

by alec on Mar 25, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Love is fat

(for a basketball player). Joey Dorsey is solid.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 25, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought I heard

some commentator on one of the games say that Love was national high school player of the year last year.

I don't know if you're suggesting Dorsey or just making the solid/puffy comparison...but this is part of what NBADraft.com has to say about Dorsey:

NBA Comparison: Ben Wallace

Weaknesses: Lacks much of an offensive game ... His post skills and shooting touch remain very limited ... Doesn't have a consistent shot and scores mostly on garbage baskets ... He's older than the average senior by 2+ years ... An absolutely abysmal free throw shooter at 46% which is actually an improvement from his first two seasons. Needs to further raise this to not be an end of game liability ... Also needs to cut down on turnovers (1.7) ... Probably best suited to play center and lacks ideal center height ...

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/joeydorsey.html

They do say he's strong and works hard, but if the Bulls are going to go front court in the draft, considering we already have Noah and Tyrus, I'd much rather have them go for someone for whom scoring is a strength. Maybe that's Love.

by alec on Mar 25, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only about the "solid" comparison

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 25, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you...

he looks sort of like an offensive tackle, or maybe a tight end.

by alec on Mar 25, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for posting that

I thought he looked and played eerily like BW. The stats bear it out. He's a clone.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

After a few youtube clips

and reading the latest blog on draftexpress about him, I AM SOLD on K. Love. He would be a good fit alongside J. Noah. What does mean for tyrus i dont know. Gooden and Thomas, one of those two has to go. And i suppose we could trade one of them at the deadline for maybe a better guard. Let the rebuilding begin?

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 25, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love is the next Bill Laimbeer

Without the need to be a classless douche. I wouldn't mind drafting him, if Thomas and Gooden were on their way out as part of a deal to get something better in return. If they're just going to stack the frontcourt with no plan, then it's pointless.

Dickey Simpkins>Ben Wallace

by Ozzie Montana on Mar 25, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll never be sold on Love.

Not until he proves it at the NBA level. I just don't see how his shit won't get swatted every time. He might, however, be someone who has never really lifted weights or done much advance working out (doubtful). If that's the case, I could see him easily losing 15-20 pounds of fat and adding 4-5 inches of vertical over the next four or five years. If that happens, then I think he'll be a stud. I don't think that will happen, though. I don't think he'll be a stud.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 25, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best case scenario:

He's the next Charles Barkley.

Worst case:

He's the next Stacey King.

by RogersPark Kris on Mar 26, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The best comparison so far

is to Wes Unseld. A little short, a little heavy, not real vertical...and one of the top centers in an era when the NBA was loaded with great centers. I've had a steady diet of UCLA this year, and I've seen teams try to intimidate him, front him, surround him, etc. He just gets it done.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never saw Unseld play

but Kevin Love reminds me of Carlos Boozer. Remember Boozer was supposedly an undersized (6'9") post player with mediocre athleticism, which is why he fell to the 2nd round.

Both players are the same size, and have similar games - mostly post, but balanced by a reliable jumpshot, and overcome their lack of athleticism with extra determination.

by YaoPau on Mar 27, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You missed a good one then

Built like an icebox but only 6'7", and had to go against the likes of Jabbar, Chamberlain, Cowens, Walton, Reed, Dawkins, etc. He does have the determination, but more importantly, understands how to play his position, and like Duncan, uses fundamental skills to break down opponents by getting the position he can rebound, defend and score from. How will it play in the NBA? We'll see.

Another small thing worries me. Later in the game, he runs up and down the court a little stiff legged; reminds me of myself when my chronic back is tightening. He had to leave a Pac 10 tourney game because of spasms 2 weeks ago. It might be that he doesn't have the core strength, and even Howland has criticized his conditioning. If that points to what's ahead, you have to wonder what the NBA grind would do to him.

Having said all that, I think he'd be an excellent complement to Noah. I think Deng's gone, Thomas should be as well, and Gooden may be the only marketable commodity we have. If Thabo becomes the Pippen-type 3 I see in him, that would be a very competitive frontcourt. If we can get a true point or shooting guard who wants to play here, I think Kirk is serviceable, and at least you'd have a starting five with winning as the primary agenda.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thabo-Love-Noah

may be the worst frontcourt in basketball.

NBA basketball, of course. I forget we're in the draft thread.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 27, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but

any combination that spares me Thomas-Gray-anyone else is aces by me.

by California Al on Mar 28, 2008 3:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ooops

I meant to reply to Matt. California Al and I agree.

by Cannoli on Mar 31, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll remind you

of this post when Love is putting up an ugly 18/10 every night for whoever drafts him. How many games have you watched him play? I have watched every great UCLA center since Lew Alcindor, and Love has fundamental basketball skills as good as any of them. Of course, he does not have Kareem's length or offense, but he will be a solid pro. John Wooden has compared his passing skill to Walton and Unseld, the two best passing big men ever (with apologies to Sabonis). This kid is always in the right position, holds his ground against bigger players, can score with either hand, can shoot from the outside, shoots free throws, is a legit 6-10 and has a great pedigree. Don't be misled by baby fat. He has outplayed all of the workout warriors he's faced, including Jordan and Lopez. Anyone can lift weights, but it takes skill to play basketball. He has a great work ethic, and will develop his body under the guidance of a pro trainer. Charles Barkely didn't jump two inches off the ground to get rebounds, because his positioning was so good. And you don't really have to sprint down the court if you are the one triggering the fast break. That sprinting down the court thing is bullshit. You only need to sprint down the court if you have no post offense. Tim Duncan and Elton Brand don't sprint down the court.

And what East center besides Dwight Howard do you see being better than Noah three years down the road? Chandler? Dalembert? A Noah/Love/Deng frontline would be very competitive in a couple of years, assuming that they had a real backcourt. I think you've seriously missed the boat on this one.

by Cannoli on Mar 31, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

all John Wooden knows about passing nowadays

is stones. ba-zing!

look up who gets 18/10 in the NBA, ugly or not.

And Barkley was a pretty remarkable athlete.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ba-zing?

With all due respect, John Wooden's kidney stones know more about basketball, and life, than you ever will. The section in his book which discusses humility might be of particular use/interest to you.

Its one thing to offer an uninformed opinion about a particular college player's future, we are all entitled to express out views regardless of their validity. (I say uninformed because its obvious to me, based on your comments, that you have not watched Kevin Love play very much.) Its another to express such contemptuous disrespect for one of the greatest basketball minds and teachers of all time. There's a reason why most of his former players, many great men in their own right, still seek his counsel. There is a reason why he is beloved and respected by generations. That you do not consider his observations to be of value is only evidence of your profound ignorance and your skewed perspective of your proper place within the meaning of things. If you or John Wooden were to disappear off the planet tomorrow, who would be missed more?

Don't confuse cleverness for actual knowledge, my friend, the path to irrelevance is strewn with the bruised egos and broken dreams of prideful, clever boys who spoke, one time too many, before thinking.

And while I suppose John Wooden does not need me, nor anyone for that matter, to defend his essential goodness and his lifetime of giving and achievement, I accepted the task gladly. For I owe him far more than I could ever hope to repay. Ba-zing? I think not.

by Cannoli on Apr 1, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you see, the joke is

he's old.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very nicely said

One of the most important men in sports history, Wooden's age ought not to be a joking matter. The few people who have more important agendas than winning and still succeed are the rarest breed, hence my affection for the Bobby Knights, John Woodens and Phil Jacksons of the world, and the Michael Jordans, Tim Duncans and Larry Birds who in spite of their enormous talents are willing to be mentored by their coaches. Seems to me that Pax was trying to build a high-road team here, and thus my continued hope for his success.

by California Al on Apr 2, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you have a point

I indeed hope I never have to joke about Bob Knight getting older.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 2, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark the date

my first point :-). Curious that I haven't heard any rumors about his next gig.

by California Al on Apr 3, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In case I wasn't clear

I meant that I wouldn't be upset at Bobby Knight dying soon instead of getting older.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 3, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cold.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Apr 3, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just wondering,

what do people think of the notion that Tyler Hansbrough is the best low post presence in college basketball?

This is the statement made by Digger Phelps last night. Note that I don't agree or disagree with Phelps, just wondering what others think of his (over?)statement.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 31, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bulls 2008 draft pick....

...will be determined this weekend.

Q: What do Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, and Joakim Noah ALL have in common?

A: They were all the Most Oustanding Player of their Regions in the NCAA Tournament.

Kirk, Ben, Luol, and Tyrus were MOPs their final year in college, and Noah was the MOP of his region during Florida's first title run.

After this weekend we'll have four MOPs named from the Final Four teams and if history is any indication, the Bulls' #1, 2, 3, or 9 draft pick will be one of these four players.

by BullsFanInSeattle on Mar 26, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, look! Stephen Curry

was selected as M.O.P.! Maybe the Bulls can draft this 6'3 shooting guard.

(...And yes, I am kidding.)

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 31, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bulls just won in ESPN lottery game

The second time I hit the Play Lottery button, the Bulls won the draft. If I take a screenshot and send to Pax, can he submit to Stern as evidence that the Bulls get the first pick this year?

by paxson43 on Mar 26, 2008 4:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Love is going to surprise people

Those who say he won't be much in the pros are wrong. If a guy like drew gooden can average 15 and 10 i am sure love can as well. He's about 6'9" but his overall skill set is through the roof. He's a winner who has the heart of a lion and good enough athleticism. LOVE IS NOT A PROJECT, HE CAN CONTRIBUTE RIGHT AWAY IN THE ROTATION NEXT YEAR.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 26, 2008 8:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Love is not a project

you should write for Hallmark, not draftdroolers.com

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 26, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct: Love is a gift.

::pukes::

by Freethefro on Mar 27, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the bulls take love

then that makes Gooden and his attractive expiring contract that much more available since their games overlap a lot.

Tyrus Thomas 2006-2008. R.I.P. We hardly knew ya...

by bullshooter on Mar 28, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love Will Never Surrender

Love can never die

Love will overcome all odds

Love will be in the Bulls locker room

Love is among kids

Love will soon be among adults

Love will bring happiness to Bulls fans

Love will bring us back to glory

Blah blah blah

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 27, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

The Bulls could use a guy like kevin love, but if the opportunity presents itself they should pounce on either Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, or DeAndre Jordan.

by The_Dude on Mar 26, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get the DeAndre Jordan fans...

If he wasn't rated high on draft boards, nobody would be calling him a must-pick. When I watch UCLA play, I think "Kevin Love and Darren Collison would look so good in a Bulls uniform." When I watch Texas A&M play, I think "Wait, DeAndre Jordan is on this team? He must me hurt or something. Wait, he's been playing for the past ten minutes?"

7.9ppg on a crappy team, shooting 43% from the free throw line, and people are referring to him as the post presence we've all been waiting for.

by YaoPau on Mar 27, 2008 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% right

People fall in love with body stereotypes (6'6", fast, can dunk? close enough...next MJ). Love, Collsion, and Howland is the coach Reinsdorf described too. Hell, grab Mbah a Mute and Motta-Real too. In fact, I think UCLA could upgrade the Luvabulls too.

by California Al on Mar 27, 2008 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love can block shots

12 in the last 2 gams including two in a row on deandre jordan vertically under the basket. Love is the real deal.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 27, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Guys who i would want to draft

Note: I dont know watch the ncaa tournament or college basketball, i do listen to espn 1000 alot and do catch highlights on espn, and i do catch a few min of a random game from time to time, but thats about all i have. I do look at alot of mockdrafts and read the articles about players the bulls could draft and usually pull information from there (and youtube of course) and consider the draft picks from there. So if i throw a name in here that makes you throw up, you can just explain to me whats what as i really dont care for any of these players on a personal level...okay here are the players i would choose in order.

D. Rose pg-he is the best pg coming out this year, and no one seems to question it. Im a hinrich fan, but the possibilities of an allstar pg on a team can be endless.

O.J. Mayo pg/sg-He is tall, can play some point, and is a real good slasher. Sure we have alot of guards but we could trade bg and someone else and get this guy. He should be offensively better then thabo, and defensively better then bg (just cuz hes tall)

Danilo Gallinari sf-He is an international player, and when i saw his youtube vids he reminded me of hedo turkoglu, the funny thing is according to draftexpress, hedo is his WORST case scenerio. He is 6'10, and can move like a guard (Sort of like Yi), he is said to be able to play either backcourt positions, has great fundamentals, and excellent basketball iq. Paxson would love him, and more importantly he would make a solid sf just in case luol went bye bye, or if we retained luol, he would be a perfect backup.

Deandre Jordan C-The bulls need another Center, too many times has Aaron Gray not been used due to lack of athleticism that keeps him from keeping up with players on the court, Jordan can do what Gray could not. If he ends up being a 7 foot version of Tyrus Thomas, I would be happy with him

Eric Gordon-If we end up letting ben gordon go, this guy is perfect for his job, the names are too similar, the comparison has him being the RICH mans ben gordon. Not really an upgrade, but may end up being cheaper, plus the mistakes made with ben gordon can be fixed with him, ala, keep at sixth man and thus he will never get upset at losing a starting job or demand more money then he is worth.

Well those are my five picks, by the way, i dont like Beasley, he seems like a zach randolf at the sf position. Lots of skills, with alot more baggage.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 27, 2008 10:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The thing I most like

about Gallinari is that he gets to the line A TON. He's second among all Euros in taking and making free throws.

I think it will be very interesting if he decidesto come to the US and do the typycal couple players at a time tour of the lottery-bound teams. I want to see how he stacks up against some of the "known" US commodities.

The Bulls desperately need someone who goes to and can get to the basket.

Admittedly, I do feel a little silly gushing over a total unknown, but that speaks 1) to the dearth of outstanding mid-court prospects in this year's draft, and 2) to my dissatisfaction with Deng. The Bulls need a mid-court player who can draw a double team.

by alec on Mar 28, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bulls don't need OJ Mayo or E Gordon

I think both of those guys are more style than substance. They are nice players, but I don't see either of them making the other players around them better.

If Kevin Love is available at the Bulls pick, which I think he ironically will be, they have to take him. Not only is he a great player from a great program
(Pax likes that), he might be the most sure thing in the draft. He will produce right away. Just like Elton Brand, he can give you 18 and 10 every night. The fact that he is white and doesn't have a really cut physique is gonna let him drop to us IMO. That would be a huge pickup.

OT but I also love Joe Alexander's game. He needs to take over more and settle for jumpshots less, but his skill set is awesome. Also I heard he has only been playing ball for a few years, which could mean his ceiling is higher than we think, and his athleticism is just awesome.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Mar 27, 2008 11:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

I mean to include k-love, i think his size bothers me a bit, but he is definetly the 6th guy id want to get. He has been moving up in the draft in the last week or so, i think his upside is in question, but yes, he seems like he would be good in the backcourt with noah.

Considering needs, i put in D. Jordan just because i think we need someone who can give Noah a break and i really dont want to see anymore of gooden at the 5. I put alot of guards in my top 5 because it seems we have a mashup at the guard spot, and we will be losing a few guards.

I dont like Hughes and B.G. might be gone due to contract reasons. Thabo is serviceable and i think he can get strong enough to play the 3. I would like to have a starting guard who has some height and has a special ability in either scoring (so he can be a legit 2 guard) or running the point (so we can have a legit "pure" all star caliber pg). I think the bulls still have an impressive roster, however the talents dont mesh or compliment each other the way they should. So i tried to choose players who could help out some of the talents on this team. D jordan to help noah and make up for the loss of tyrus, Oj mayo or E. Gordon to make up the loss of Gordon and compliment kirk hinrichs lack of pureness, D. Rose can basically help out the entire team offensively, and the international lebron james so that if we lose deng there would be someone who is serviceable enough that should have a high trade value for quite some time.

Like i said i like k love, however i really wouldnt want to draft him if it meant something like gooden would have to play center while k love played pf, or if they put k love at the sf and he didnt play right so they bench him and kill his development. The bulls tend to treat thier rookies like soldiers in the army, "THIS IS HARD WORK THE SHIT U DID IN COLLEGE WONT CUT IT HERE!!!" and if they so choose, they wont let a player play comfortably where he wants to, and killing development. I dont want that to happen to k love or anyone we draft.

Thats a lengthy reason why i put k love at number 6, im sold on all he can do, but i had my logic behind it all.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gordon and Mayo

aren't gonna do a thing for Hinrich's "lack of pureness". They both need to have the ball to be effective, yet they both have assist to turnover ratios of less than one. That is not good. They also are low 40s% FG shooters. So in offering mediocre shooting and little peripheral production while being borderline undersized 2 guards, they might be able to replace BG. That being said, BG even had a better assist to turnover ratio and a higher FG% in college.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Mar 28, 2008 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So in other words

If D. Rose isnt available dont go after guards??? By the way, i did look at "Vanilla Sky" after you mentioned his name, i hadnt checked him out previously since he was located in the mid teens on the mock draft. I think he belongs there, yes he is very athletic, but i dont think he has anything but that. Sure he picked up basketball recently so maybe he can improve, but he reminds me of a smaller whiter tyrus thomas, and we saw how well that didnt work out.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe I said

I don't want Mayo or E. Gordon. I didn't suggest avoiding guards all together. I dropped the OT because I am not suggesting we draft Alexander. I just like his game and thought others might like it, too. I think he would benefit from another year in college, but BaB does not have another suitable space for me to talk about him.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Mar 30, 2008 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of the 2 though

OJ Mayo is the better choice. Despite the fact that he is a punk and I never want to see him in a Bulls uniform, he is bigger, shoots better and gets more rebounds and assists than Gordon. But again, selfish, undersized off-guards are a dime a dozen in the NBA. I am praying the Bulls don't waste a pick on one. We need someone who makes the other players around him better.

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Mar 28, 2008 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo no

Mayo peaked in 8th grade

by armstrong2389 on Mar 28, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When he was 18?

heh

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 28, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasnt he like 16 in 8th grade

or something along those lines. he got held back, and then there was this rumor about him having a 29 on the A.C.T....

Like i said i dont watch the NCAA so i havent seen how Oj has been doing, draftexpress did report at some point that the guy wasnt playing at the high level expected of him, but i think he picked up in the tournament, cuz his projection dropped to like 11 at some point, and this week its crawled back to 5. That must mean something you would think...but you guys are more of experts then me so if so many people dont like him, there must also be a reason for that i would think.

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Mar 28, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mayo is 20? I had no idea...

He's 11 months younger than Roy Hibbert, and 13 months older than Eric Gordon. My future-bust detector is starting to smoke.

by YaoPau on Mar 28, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eric Gordon

choked in the tournament, whereas Ben Gordon peaked in the tournament.

Just about his only upgrade over Ben is that he's listed as 6'4, and even that we can't bank on. (Eric is listed at 6'4, 215, while Ben is listed at 6'3, 200).

Oh, and also, he jerked the state of Illinois around with his recruiting shenanigans. I'm not even a U. of I. alum, but I just think the way he acted was a turnoff.

Hope he becomes a career backup, and that he never even gets 6th man of the year.

"Duhon, don't make that garbage-time jumper... Save it for the next game!"

by bullhockey on Mar 28, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The big upgrade

is Eric's ability to get to the free throw line.

by YaoPau on Mar 28, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

David Thorpe

in a recent ChadFordCast, said that Eric Gordon would be very fortunate to be as good as Ben Gordon as a pro.

Then he went on about Ben's strengths (so the 'falling down' crowd may want to avoid it), while acknowledging with even with those strengths it's simply difficult to be an undersized shot-maker in the NBA.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate the Love love. Bleck.

Brandon Rush will end up being the guy all but a few will wish they would have drafted.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 28, 2008 2:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, yeah, yeah...

I'm still steaming about passing over Mikael Pietrus.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know, I know....

You won't mention anyone in the guise of "I hate the draft" then you don't have to worry about being wrong. It's cool. (wussy) ---SNAP!!

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 28, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you never have to worry about being wrong

because it's a crapshoot, which makes me roll eyes at such 'predictions'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 28, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you guys think about Tywon Lawson?

They say he is the fastest point guard in the country and speed kills.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 28, 2008 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Love is going to dominate tormorrow night

Watch all you haters, he'll go for at least 20 pts, 10 rebs, 2 assts, 2 blocks.

by armstrong2389 on Mar 28, 2008 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

45 second scouting report

Kevin Love is slow.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 29, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To his defense

Love is an unbelievable outlet passer. With that in mind, he may not run the floor, but when he pulls down one of his 11 rebounds a game, he can pass the ball up the floor faster than anyone will run or dribble it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykfvQFtCkc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoVpjgj6GAo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dGLwJaayL0&feature=related

Get Yo Self A Handful

by MarketMaker on Mar 30, 2008 4:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skiles would hate him.

"He never sprints the floor like we want. Oh wait, that was his sprinting? My god!"

Oh yeah, getting up court isn't just about fast breaks. It's about setting up the offense, too. When you're waiting for the slowest guy on the court to get down there and set up, it slows the game, especially w/ a 24-second clock.

I saw it a few times last night: when the defense stopped the guards, they pull back, two seconds later, here comes Love lumbering down into position. Sometimes the play was already started!!!

Kevin Love has old-man skills. He's like Arvydas Sibonis or Brad Miller but three inches shorter, and dare I say, LESS athletic? If he were 7-ft, I'd be fine with him, but he's not. Carlos Boozer was short and had average athletic ability. Kevin Love is still short but with below average athletic ability. I'm glad he's developing a 3-pointer because that's what will give him a fighting chance.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 30, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You read my mind

Not sure 24 seconds is enough for him to get up and down. However, I truly hope his recent spasm issues are a blip, cause I like this kid. Not sure you got this because I think it was a local feed, but after the almost meltdown against WKU, he said, "I'm going to have a talk with a couple of the players and watch some tape." Can you imagine a freshman at UCLA stepping up into that kind of role?
Still, such a risky pick. If the Bulls gambled on him and neither he nor Tyrus pan out, our future would be wrapped up in "you gotta get real bad before you get real good" land.

by California Al on Mar 30, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A Big Guard

I doubt we're going to need another Big this draft. We seem pretty stacked in terms of that. Noah's having somewhat of a good season, Gooden's starting to looking like a smart acquisition after Wallace, Gray and Thomas will take some work.

I think we need a big guard who can defend and pass. Mayo seems like a good pick here. If we can trade up for him, we have a rotation that looks like

Guards

Kirk & Mayo
Gordon, Thabo

Forwards

Deng & Gooden
Noc, Tyrus

Centre

Noah
Gray

This allows Kirk to log some time at the 2, where he seems somewhat more comfortable on occasions. It also gives us another defender on the perimeter. It's like a bigger and longer upgrade to Duhon and if the next coach still wants to play the tinyball line up, I'd complain less with a 6-5 point or maybe Thabo at the 3.

This season's already a flop. We deserve some big market activity that would ideally lead to more wins and an extended playoff run, not an ageing 6-7 centre for 15 million a season.

This looks like a good idea. But knowing Pax, he's gonna f*** it up again.

醉生梦死

by blackmage71 on Mar 29, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Need: A guard to make TT and Noah even better

I think Paxon knows talent and this year he will probably be less afraid to sacrifice more to get what he wants. I think if he can he should target someone in the draft like Rose or Mayo. Most preferably Rose obviously. The thing that makes them valuable is that they both are able to completely breakdown their defender and score which in turn will open things up for other players. The Bulls do not have one of these kinds of players and I think it hurts guys like Thomas and Noah...and back in the day Tyson. They are finishers who need someone to create opportunities for them. In order for that to happen you need a guard who other teams fear. I really like Rose in this role but he will probably go in the top 2 picks. Do the Bulls have enough to move up to that, I don't know, but they should try. I think they could get Mayo at about 7 or 8. Again, I'd be willing to give up guys like Deng, Gordon and/or Kirk because I believe getting a guard like Rose or Mayo will eventually make everyone else on the team better. I think Paxon knows this as he player with a guard like that.

by goldengod on Mar 30, 2008 7:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Talent

Pax knows PLAYER talent. Not so much coaching talent IMO. All the above depends on having a real NBA coach

by goldengod on Mar 30, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's happening!!!

http://mvn.com/nba-bulls/2008/03/30/draft-watch-tyler-hansbrough/

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 12:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He'll be better than Kevin Love.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

despite my 'slow' comment earlier

I was impressed with Kevin Love. Just crapping on his rising status. He has good hands and skills, and while he's doughy now he's only 19, that can change.

Hansbrough is a garbage player though. The next Mark Madsen. He's just not big enough to be a post player, despite the heaves that find their way into the basket in the NCAAs. If you're going to be an undersized 4 in the league (and some say Tyurs is undersized, sheesh) you have to be a Milsap, Landry, Smith, Evans...just a superlative rebounder who gets junk points. Hansbrough isn't big or strong enough, and this may surprise Jay Bilas but NBA players are competitors as well.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He'll still be better.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Mar 31, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok I'll put it in the prediction file

better than Mark Madsen?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You watched a college game?

I'm impressed :-) He'll get all the testing he needs against Memphis next week. If he's too slow, too soft, too anything, Rose, Dorsey and the DDM in general will out him. Either way, that is a can't miss game for conjecture. There's at least 5 should-the-Bulls-get-? players and 2 wish-list coaches on the court. Classic boxer-slugger matchup; can't wait to watch it play out.

If you're looking at 2nd rounders, check out Mbah A Mute as a poor man's Deng, if moving Lu out is any part of the offseason plan.

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, that's my problem with the college game

there are no 'tests', every team is awful.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not true

by sue369 on Mar 31, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

anti-collite

BTW, Matt, best bbblog around and thanks for hosting it. You're right, there is no comparison between a pro athlete of any sort and the next level down. However, I'm guessing that you grew up in the 24 second, no zone age of basketainment. Some of us older shits still hold a little grudge against putting a synthetic product out there.
Combine that with the fact that on way too many occasions you end up spending your hard earned free time and cash watching very talented and highly compensated athletes who really don't give a crap about winning the game, or at best, will try their best for about 8 minutes (usually enough to take apart our beloved this year).
The NCAA tourney is Augusta National to me, the mecca of what the game should be about. If the NBA could somehow work it out to go back to leaving the kids in school for 4 years, both games would be so much more better off.

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

perhaps way back when

they were actual amateurs too.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you went a little too far back :-)

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

poor mans deng

ok, maybe i see a few possibilities and this is not generally directed at you BUT I absolutely hate when players are compared to other players because of their similar skin color. It seems to me like it always happens. Same thing with nationality or other geographic confines. I guess in mbah a moute;s case its the fact that he is black and doesnt have an african american name.

by Sambossanova on Mar 31, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

although maybe Al just meant the guy is literally poorer than Luol Deng, even before the contract extension.

Personally, I'll put this one in the box of generally offensive comparisions. Like Gerald Green and Tyrus Thomas, or Kevin Love and Charles Barkley.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll just go for the old 1-2 punch then

and be the first to compare Love to Big Country Reeves. :)

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 31, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shame on you, Matt

I was referring to position, height, skill sets, and the fact while Luc Richard, is not yet playing at Luol's level, he's really developed a lot of skillsets that I think translate into a prottype NBA SF. Poorman's because if you can and want to afford Luol, keep him, end of subject. WhoTF brought race into this anyway?

Hate to lecture, but wasn't it the accusers, thereby indicting themselves for making that connection?

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't accusing you

sambassanova said 'I hate when it happens' and I said I agree.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Mar 31, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

misunderstood it as a ditto of sorts. Within the context of the thread, thought it had been seconding the sentiments of of sam's.

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Damn, you're right! They do have similar skin color!!! Glad we have people out here who still notice that kind of shit. Look in the mirror.

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunno if that was referring to me

... but I thought it was clear from the smiley face I was poking fun at the whole affair. :P

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 31, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, Sports2

I really enjoy your input. That was at Sambossanova for bringing stereotyping in where none was involved. If anyone wants to have an intelligent conversation re differences between black and white ballplayers, I'm all for it. But that comment and Matt's ditto were about as on-topic as it might have been for Matt to jump in and complain about the impact he'd have on TT's minutes :-)

Just came across a very interesting conversation about black vs white bb by Daryl Dawkins. I only knew him as the Chocolate Thunder clown on that great Sixers team (ahh, memory lane, Dawkins squaring off with Mo Lucas), and was very impressed. Coach candidate? Scroll 2/3 down to the Dawkins comments:

http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=1687

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks!

That's interesting stuff and an interesting thread in general. If I have the time, it sparked interest in a new research project for me. Unfortunately that'll have to take its place in line behind the other five or six hundred research ideas I like but haven't gotten around to yet :)

I think there's some truth to what Chocolate Thunder is saying, but I actually draw the opposite conclusion.

(For those who don't want to scroll through the APBR post, the original question asked why there appeared to be obvious racial differences in NBA careers. In particular, if you look at the top 100 NBA careers in terms of various stats, one sees

whites over-represented in most categories
whites wildly ahead in things like 3 point shooting
whites very under-represented in the usage rate statistic.)

Being an economist, my first guess is this these differences can all be accounted for without resorting to explaining them as physical differences due to race or any sort of innate racial differences in "taste" the way Dawkins seems to.

To do that, I'd start at the opposite point from Dawkins. The "white" game is too individualistic and the "black" game is too socialized.

Consider it in terms of trying to develop a set of skills. I would guess that if conditions for an athletic white kid and an athletic black kid are different, they're largely different like this.

Your stereotypical "black kid" lives in a city and is less likely to have his own basketball hoop. To develop his basketball skills, this requires him to play with other guys; whomever is at the court. This is going to teach the better players to use the ball more, and it's going to lead them to focus on things that win them games. If you're playing with other kids and you do nothing but stand around and wait for someone to pass you the ball so you can hoist up a three pointer, you're never gonna touch the ball. So the skills that get reinforced and practiced in that environment are things like controlling the ball and shooting.
Your "stereotypical white kid" might live in the suburbs or country, and might have his own basketball hoop. Even if he doesn't, there are less other kids around, so he's going to spend more time developing his skills alone. Bouncing a ball against his garage door to simulate passes, practicing his jumper, collecting the misses etc. On the other hand, there's not that same level of competition for "ball time" you find in a game setting.

1+2 explain why you see white kids coming to the table with superior 3 point skills and black kids coming to table with superior "usage" skills.

3. The fact that whites are somewhat over-proportionally represented amongst the best is likely due to a broader manifestation of the same principle of practice and specialization. When our stereotypical black kid turns out to be a good athlete, he might focus on basketball or football and develop one of those skills because they're the most obvious payoffs for him. When our stereotypical white kid is a good athlete, my guess is there are still quite a bit more things he might specialize in. Tennis, golf, baseball, hockey and perhaps non-athletic pursuits as well, all compete for time.

This leads to over-representation among the statistical leaders at the NBA level because, in order to advance actually advance to that level, the average white player must have dispayed a higher aptitude for it in the first place to give up his other opportunities and specialize in basketball in the first place. Only the most skilled and dedicated white players go on to the highest levels of basketball, and thus, they tend to be among the best.

This is true of black kids too, of course, but the number of other things that good black athletes end up specializing in and dedicating their time to ends up being smaller, so a higher proportion of the "potential basketball players" become "actual basketball players".

I spose I could be completely wrong, and I'd like to find some good tests of my theory here, but I do think it's a logically sound explanation at least.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 1, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I've said this before

I don't want anything on this site to be even 'racial', since that way we don't have to debate what's 'racist'. Because...it's not fun to me to do so.

(yes I didn't help by 'endorsing' sambassanova's post, but I was merely saying that cases of Hinrich=Stockton syndrome are annoying)

Sorry if that bums out some scholars here, or pseudo-intellectuals like alec.

You can go to SportsTwo's site, for instance.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry!

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 1, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would that bum me out?

The implication in your suggestion is that I endorse racial stereotyping. I believe the only fair conclusion is quite the opposite.

My only race-mentioning comments on this site have been requests not to include race as part of the question--much as you just did above.

I may annoy you on many fronts, but this, in truth, should not be one of them. I won't ask for a retraction because I wouldn't expect one to be forthcoming, but a little intellectual honesty would be appreciated.

by alec on Apr 1, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't take that implication from his post

He simply wants to stay relatively on topic, and the topic is the Bulls. It's not a general purpose coffee shop.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Apr 1, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm..I guess it could've read that way

I meant that you endorse debate on non-pertinent topics, is all.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Apr 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My apologies.

Thanks for your response.

by alec on Apr 1, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sincerest apologies

for either starting it inadvertently or responding to it. I suppose in the blogosphere, it's best to stay off the topic completely. If anyone here garnered the same inference that Sam did, I apologize to you as well. Nuff said.

by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's true.

Some whites go on to yachting or jai alai.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 1, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hate was strong word

but i find it creepy that whenever people make comparisons they tend to veer off into the land of similar ethnic/racial/name sounds the same type of shit. The Moute might be a poor man's deng but I don't think its coincidental that that thought comes so quickly to one's head. Anyays I am not calling anyone a racist and my comment was tangential but I brought it up because I was looking at those draft prognostication websites where they compare players...

by Sambossanova on Mar 31, 2008 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

sheesh

that was an apology? My comparison had nothing to do with "the land of similar ethnic/racial/name sounds the same type of shit". I guess it's ok to find it creepy and "don't think its coincidental that that thought comes so quickly to one's head", just as long as you don't call anyone a racist :-). So far, yours is the only head it popped into :-).

That thought comes very quickly to mind if you're a rabid Bulls and Bruins fan and hear rumors that Luol is royally pissed and is leaving the Bulls one way or the other. There are worse kids that you could look at in the second round if those rumors have any merit. I was just sayin

Let it go, the comparison didn't have a thing to do with race.

by California Al on Mar 31, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's hard to imagine a boy that big

can rise that much.

My Blog (Econ/Politics/Sports/NBA Salary Info)

by Sports2 on Mar 31, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Tyger, Saturday evening

we'll get to see head-to-head your pictured match-up of Dorsey vs. Love. I just heard Pat Forte call it the featured match-up of the weekend. Dorsey's already 24 years old and has a fully NBA body. Love could jump up a few spots on draft boards if he easily handles Dorsey.

Although, in terms of draft-relatedness, I'd say I'm equally looking for ward to Rose/ Collisan and Rose/Westbrook. I think Westbrook, Collisan and Love will all be on the board when the Bulls pick...and, of course, the Bulls will have a mathematical shot at Rose.

by alec on Apr 1, 2008 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

If Love and Dorsey go head-to-head (not just that they're on the court at the same time), I'll be prepared to eat my words if Love continues his success. Dorsey isn't the end-all be-all, of course, but if Love has good games the next two, he'll have certainly "earned" it.

Let us prepare for glory! --Michael Redd

by tyger1147 on Apr 1, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really don't follow college basketball

until the tournament, but I did see the UCLA Stanfod conference championship game. Love was not dominant against the Lopez brothers. But in fairness, most mock drafts have Brook Lopez going a lot higher than Kevin Love.

In fact, I would have liked to have seen a little bit more of Stanford. I think I heard this morning that both Lopez' have declared for the draft. In terms of Bulls' needs, I'd say Brook Lopez fits the bill better than Kevin Love.

by alec on Apr 1, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love was hampered

by Mbah A Moute's injury, pretty much having to handle the post alone against the twins. BTW, did you see my idea to draft Robin if Memphis takes Brook, as per draft-express? Could be the tool we need to pry one of the point guards out of them, and possibly a three way to get us some frontcourt help.
I agree with a common sentiment here that, unless they are really going to start over, there are no instant fixes available in the draft unless we get a lucky ping pong ball. If we can get a 2nd or 3rd year player like Conley or Lowry, it would open up more options this offeseason.

by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love never looks dominant

But at the end of the day, he put up 19 and 10 in that conference championship in a 57-54 win. In the tourney, he's averaging 22pts, 11rebs, 4blks in games up to 70 while staying within the offense. The best tourney numbers ever for a freshman?

by YaoPau on Apr 2, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm really intrigued by Westbrook

I think he is going to lock down on Rose. His speed is incredible and he has long arms, and a reliable skill set.

by armstrong2389 on Apr 1, 2008 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

but I'd be surprised if DC wasn't given the nod. Best on the ball d I've ever seen, and doesn't have the lapses Russell does. Besides, might need RW's height on Douglas-Roberts. DC's also got the long reach and hand-speed to remind you of Pippen. Been lovin this kid for 2 years and he's going to have the spotlight on him. What a classic matchup!

by California Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's you're big board for the bulls at #8 or #9

Here's mine; 1. Kevin Love, 2, Blake Griffin, 3. Russell Westbrook, 4. Deandre Jordan, 5. Darren Collison

Thoughts? I think we should stay away from the tweener guards, Gordon, Bayless. Westbrook is a legit point/2guard. Love is better than people think and stronger than an ox. Griffin is huge, but has had knee troubles. Jordan is huge but possibly too much of a project.

Don't give up on Tyrus yet, he's starting to understand the game.

by armstrong2389 on Apr 2, 2008 12:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

how do you think

Jordan would be at pf. A 7 ft pf, just in case we lose tyrus, cuz thats sort of what i get from reading his scouting reports, as unpolished as tyrus, as athletic as tyrus, just at 7 feet. Noah and Jordan front court, no post moves, but dominating?

Kirk Hinrich. The FORMER Best White American Point Guard in the NBA, Will Soon be Traded :(

by piccolomair on Apr 2, 2008 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I 'd probably say

1) DJ Augustin; 2) Love.

I know a lot of people here feel otherwise, but I think PG is the Bulls' biggest need position...and I think Augustin looks like a really good PG.

I agree with you about combo guards. If that's what we want, there's no reason to try to replace Kirk. He's a solid combo guard...but he doesn't bring anything special to the point.

Post scoring is the team's second greatest need, and again, contrary to the opinions of many of BaB's more astute basketball observers, I think Love will be a good post scorer in the pros.

by alec on Apr 2, 2008 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Feeling otherwise

The last thing I want on the Bulls is another undersized guard - 5'11" PGs and 6'3" SGs (Westbrook, Mayo) can take a hike. Try naming a PG under 6' or a SG under 6'5" that didn't draw fouls that became a star in the NBA.

I like Love and Thabeet (how is he not projected higher?), and I liked what I saw from that McGee video posted earlier on this thread. I'd take Eric Gordon over both if he somehow slipped.

by YaoPau on Apr 2, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The way Gordon played the last quarter

of the season and in the tournament, I'd say it's almost a lock he'll be there for the Bulls...which fits Matt's "high-risk player that falls" profile. I don't usually watch college BB at the beginning of the season, so I never saw him play well.

I'm also a big fan of getting to the line. My impression is Augustin gets to the line pretty well. In a third of his games he shot at least 8 free throws.

What I like most about Agustin is that he seems able to get anywhere he wants with ease, and he makes on-target passes even in traffic. That, and he's quick. Real quick.

by alec on Apr 2, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply

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