The official 'Resignabull' thread
let Matt's Noce-salary bashing begin anew
looks like there's some rumblings about the early returns for both Deng and Gordon..
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-071003smith,1,1788157.column?coll =cs-home-headlines
Sorry for the long link but I'm lazy this morning.
Since we'll talk about it for the next month (and let's be realistic, Pax 'SlowHand' won't sign either of The Two before then), can we just make an official thread? It's been a long time since our last 120-comment topic.
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I have no idea what Sam's talking about.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 4, 2007 9:19 AM CDT reply actions
Wait!
Do I have to say this again?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 4, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I get it
Personally, I hope that we can sign both of them before the season starts. I'm plenty sick of trade scenarios that send BG and Deng out of the Bulls and I don't want to have to go through that again.
Just hoping that we don't gut the team cap to sign them.
How much do you guys think BG and Deng should be getting?
by blackmage71 on Oct 4, 2007 10:59 AM CDT reply actions
should
Should in light of contracts that Rashard Lewis, Sam Dalembert, Noce et al have signed?
Should in light of Kirk's contract?
Should if they want to make a healthy living but still be playing for a competitive team in 2-3 years?
I think that Deng should get a bit more but that going over 12 per for either is getting a bit high.
What's curious to me is that this is the first I've heard anything regarding contract negotiations. Secondly, how far off must they be for a piece like this to come out? Surely, if they want 12, I'm sure there wouldn't be much fuss. But, if they're asking for 15 or something, then that's crazy. And before anybody says anything, I just threw 15 Mill out there because it seemed to me to be equal to "far apart", not because that's what either player wants.
Should
by blackmage71 on Oct 4, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
I do hope Deng and Ben realize how many people don't get the big bucks they're hoping for when they get to be an RFA or an UFA. I also hope they realize that making too much money can be a bad thing for their careers (Kobe, if you weren't making max, trades would be much easier to do!).
As for BG and Deng? Not more than 11 1/2 mill for either one. 10 1/2 might be good. If I was Deng's agent, I'd suggest signing for lesser years so that he hits free agency around 26. That's a gamble, but he'd be at his peak then and attract a lot of offers.
by KT on Oct 4, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmmm..
Agreed
Also in that cabinet: every Mark Cuban column, Scott Skiles negotiations from two summers ago, Ben Wallace headband articles, Tyrus Thomas "free money" (conveniently ignoring that Brian Hanley reported that Tyrus had already pledge the money to his high school alma mater) articles, and now, the Luol and Ben "you'll get nothing and like it" articles.
*sorry for the strained metaphor here. I'll work on it for the next time Smith takes a break from his normal insightful and starts putting on his polemicist hat again. Prediction: there will be a "Noah is a smart ass" article in about 3 months after he says something true, but out of line with the Reinsdorf/Pax/Skiles agenda.
by GWKD on Oct 4, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe you should take a deep breath and relax
go back and read all of the playoff coverage
I thought that he did, but cannot remember
But let me clarify and back track a little because I think I came off a little hard on Sam than I was trying too. 9 out of 10 of Sam's colums are great. I am a fan. But I'm with Matt, I do not understand what he is trying to say here. But I cringe when I think if I hear people say that Luol and Ben should settle for less just because of where they came from. There is something that just feels really strange about that.
I think I'd just echo what that Thankyou Isaiah post said about the column. Where is the reporting? I'm not sure that it informs us a whole lot about the bargaining positions of either party, or, really even that much about the Bulls philosophy. Because, I do not believe that Paxson has enough of a history yet of signing Pax drafted players (Hinrich, Nocioni, and Duhon the only ones) to really allow us to really know his philosophy.
anyway, I hope that both of them are around at the right price, both for talent and team chemistry purposes.
by GWKD on Oct 5, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I would argue
- how does a birthplace or any other geographic location change the exchange rate? It's not like Deng is gonna build his crib in the Sudan and fly in for games.
- Why should they want less? Who does it benefit. It won't lower ticket prices, that's for damn sure. And, if we are talking signing other players, then the player HAS to assume the team/organization really will go after other players with that money. I know this worked in NE w/ Tom Brady (and I do personally choose to believe that this is why I would like to see them take less money) but, can they really be faulted for not believing this themselves? I don't think so.
- Will the goodwill from taking less money benefit them or anybody they care about down the road? I don't see how the can reasonably expect it to.
If I may toot my own horn
Contracts.
I see Luol asking for 10-12 also, but wanting less years, to reach free agency sooner.
That said, they should walk through the ghetto sometime, and take 45/5, realizing that they should thank god for being tall(ok, only Luol) and talented(Gordon especially). Luol will undoubtedly do good for thousands of Africans within days. That kind of character is hard to find nowadays.
Care to explain
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
uhm,
Or
I simply meant they should realize how lucky they
Truthfully, Luol should visit the Sudan, and Ben could visit your job. Either way, they might appreciate that negotiating tough might not be worth the uncertainty and stress, and might hurt the team.
i think i see
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Ghetto
it's ridiculous to be on blogabull
Poverty not what I meant.
if the great Teddy Bruschi
I frown (and grimace, really) upon any mention of players keeping perspective. Screw that, get paid. They have no obligation to the Bulls to be nice and save them a few million. Take less money in exchange for security, sure, but not as a gift to chairman Jerry.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 4, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
who still works 9-5?
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Hurt the team
They would be likely signing 5 year deals that start at the end of this year, meaning they would commit to 6 years on one team, with salary being increasing and increasingly hard to move as the contract matures. I'm not sure why most players don't cut the contract in 3/4, and just ask for a no trade clause. Then they could be moved, but only if they wanted to. A year or two could be added to give financial security. During a smaller annual contract, they can request trades which might be feasible. Front loading might fit these criteria, as they are more likely to want out towards the end of the contract. Kobe is stuck, Garnett asked for a trade for 3 years, and the team had to bite the bullet on a poor trade to get rid of him. I guess what I'm saying is that with most teams over the cap, the ability to trade players would be facilitated by giving up money for control. Which, in my humble opinion, would be a good trade for most players.
As a fan, I do like Kobe's cell phone videos though, and such a change might eliminate hubris-filled trade pronouncements with little chance of viability, truly one of the pleasures of the NBA.
neither deng nor gordon
Let's not forget the role of...
I remember reading years ago that when Phil Jackson would enter contract negotiations with Bulls management, he never really cared about how much money he made (which is obviously not the case these days), but his agent pushed him towards the upper spectrum for "respect", etc.
I'm not saying that's what's at work here, but I think its worth considering as something of a factor.
Jackson
I think Pax's biggest mistake was paying Chandler big bucks as a RFA when no other teams had even made an offer. He probably could have gotten him much cheaper. The choice between Wallace and Chandler earning roughly the same salary is debatable, but if Chandler was making $4-5 million less per year, Pax might have hung on to him and looked to upgrade the roster elsewhere. (Not that I'm complaining.)
by Mike Aparicio on Oct 4, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Did I hear a complaint?
You better watch your mouth. He's out there.
Before we jump the gun on the contract extensions
"I'm not sure where the Bulls are with Gordon and Deng. But I'm guessing they have offered $10 million or $11 million per season."
He's just guessing about the inital offers, and clearly does not have any concrete info for us to chew on. The article seems more focused on the overall opinion about how much NBA players make in the first place.
So all we can do is speculate, but it's not like we really expected the extension to happen particuarly quickly, as we saw last year with Hinrich.
by Bullschicago on Oct 4, 2007 4:13 PM CDT reply actions
Ran across this on BG
And more of the same
The Bulls are in an impossible situation. They're built around Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich and one young star can't make significantly more money than the others. Paying Gordon his $70 million could frustrate Deng and Hinrich. And taking a hard line with Gordon could frustrate their instant-offense two-guard.
vague vague vague!
I am suspicious
Yeah,
I just came across it this morning and thought I'd pass it along for anyone who was interested in the latest rumors.
NY News = Agitation
Nevertheless, this is a reassuring tidbit, especially considering its the first words on the subject to come from the horses mouth....
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/594394,100907bulls.article
-- Gordon denied a New York Daily News report that claimed he was in the market for a five-year, $70 million contract extension. He is eligible to become a restricted free agent after the season. Asked whether $55 million is closer to the truth, Gordon said, "No comment."
Ahhhhhh
Deng's hunger to improve and his serious work ethic continue to impress the Bulls' front office. And general manager John Paxson said he knows his ongoing contract negotiations with Deng's agent -- which could lead to a five-year contract worth more than $50 million before the season opens Oct. 31 -- will not change Deng.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/593111,CST-SPT-bull08.article
I do appreciate that Pax seems to keep a handle on both dollar value and contract length in his negotiations.
Gamesmanship
Here's a little of Paxson's thinking
Speaking of paychecks, one of the great dramas of the summer has been the way the bloodsport that is restricted free agency has played out. But, at Bulls camp, there's a reminder that things needn't be that way. Back in early July, the opening of the free-agent period, Chicago and restricted free agent Andres Nocioni agreed to a five-year, $38 million contract with very little negotiation. Having gotten the deal done early, Nocioni went to work right away, healing from his plantar fasciitis and losing 10 pounds to help ensure he stays healthy. While many restricted free agents have been left bitter after this offseason, Nocioni said, "It feels great, really nice. The contract showed me that they are happy with the job I am doing here. So now I want to go out and do everything I can to make them happy they gave me the contract."
I also asked Bulls general manager John Paxson about the deal, specifically, whether the fact that so many restricted free agents are feeling the squeeze had made him reconsider how quickly he moved to pay Nocioni. Paxson could have played hardball, forced Nocioni to look for another offer and given him a lowball deal. "I don't look at it that way," Paxson said. "Maybe I am misguided, maybe I should look at it that way. But I think you go into a negotiation, you try to be fair and you hope that the player and his agent are fair, too. If so, you get it done." ...

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