The official 'Resignabull' thread

Does that mean he's no longer "Matt's Man Sam"

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Do I have to say this again?

Sam Smith is a tool. He's always been a tool.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 4, 2007 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I think I get it

I'm thinking Sam's sick of the psycho salaries that pro players get. I mean, your getting paid more in a month than an average joe does in 10 years just to play a game.

Personally, I hope that we can sign both of them before the season starts. I'm plenty sick of trade scenarios that send BG and Deng out of the Bulls and I don't want to have to go through that again.

Just hoping that we don't gut the team cap to sign them.

How much do you guys think BG and Deng should be getting?

醉生梦死

by blackmage71 on Oct 4, 2007 10:59 AM CDT reply actions

is a relative term.
Should in light of contracts that Rashard Lewis, Sam Dalembert, Noce et al have signed?
Should in light of Kirk's contract?
Should if they want to make a healthy living but still be playing for a competitive team in 2-3 years?

I think that Deng should get a bit more but that going over 12 per for either is getting a bit high.

What's curious to me is that this is the first I've heard anything regarding contract negotiations. Secondly, how far off must they be for a piece like this to come out? Surely, if they want 12, I'm sure there wouldn't be much fuss. But, if they're asking for 15 or something, then that's crazy. And before anybody says anything, I just threw 15 Mill out there because it seemed to me to be equal to "far apart", not because that's what either player wants.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Should

I'm thinking we can forget about off season moves till Big Ben finishes his contract. Frankly, I hoping we don't break the bank with more than 10 or 12 million per man. Damn the Magics to hell with the bullshit they pay for Lewis

醉生梦死

by blackmage71 on Oct 4, 2007 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree

that Sam's sick of the psycho salaries, or at least an athlete turning up their nose at $10 mill a year.

I do hope Deng and Ben realize how many people don't get the big bucks they're hoping for when they get to be an RFA or an UFA. I also hope they realize that making too much money can be a bad thing for their careers (Kobe, if you weren't making max, trades would be much easier to do!).

As for BG and Deng? Not more than 11 1/2 mill for either one. 10 1/2 might be good. If I was Deng's agent, I'd suggest signing for lesser years so that he hits free agency around 26. That's a gamble, but he'd be at his peak then and attract a lot of offers.

by KT on Oct 4, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Hmmmm..

Wow. Consider that the first Chicago media report to gently warn Gordon and Deng (or their agents) not to get too crazy in their salary demands. When contract negotiations get ugly, it's always interesting to see which way the media tilts the fan's opinions: to the athlete or to management. Sam was just posing questions I guess, but I think Reinsdorf & Pax owe him for this one.

by T Maple on Oct 4, 2007 12:04 PM CDT reply actions

Agreed

file this in the Pro-Reinsdorf, Pro-Stern cabinet, again. And, note this is a 10 foot maple, gold leafed cabinet. The player one is a little puny garbage can on the side.

Also in that cabinet: every Mark Cuban column, Scott Skiles negotiations from two summers ago, Ben Wallace headband articles, Tyrus Thomas "free money" (conveniently ignoring that Brian Hanley reported that Tyrus had already pledge the money to his high school alma mater) articles, and now, the Luol and Ben "you'll get nothing and like it" articles.

*sorry for the strained metaphor here. I'll work on it for the next time Smith takes a break from his normal insightful and starts putting on his polemicist hat again. Prediction: there will be a "Noah is a smart ass" article in about 3 months after he says something true, but out of line with the Reinsdorf/Pax/Skiles agenda.

by GWKD on Oct 4, 2007 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Maybe you should take a deep breath and relax

What bugs me is that we need two reporters to get the whole story. Hanley is completely biased the other way. I have to read both of these clowns to figure out what is going on.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 4, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions

please cite examples of Hanley bias

by GWKD on Oct 4, 2007 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions

go back and read all of the playoff coverage

and look at the discussion we had here on blogabull. Hanley mentioned Tyrus's plans to donate the money, did he ever mention the controversial comments?

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 4, 2007 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I thought that he did, but cannot remember

any of the specifics of what Hanley said or the playoff coverage. But I do remember his, Greg Couch, and Roman Modrowski's column gave a whole accounting of the matter. The trib did not really cover the donation comment except as a minor one sentence line at the end of a bulls bits column, days after all the hullaballoo.

But let me clarify and back track a little because I think I came off a little hard on Sam than I was trying too. 9 out of 10 of Sam's colums are great. I am a fan. But I'm with Matt, I do not understand what he is trying to say here. But I cringe when I think if I hear people say that Luol and Ben should settle for less just because of where they came from. There is something that just feels really strange about that.

I think I'd just echo what that Thankyou Isaiah post said about the column. Where is the reporting? I'm not sure that it informs us a whole lot about the bargaining positions of either party, or, really even that much about the Bulls philosophy. Because, I do not believe that Paxson has enough of a history yet of signing Pax drafted players (Hinrich, Nocioni, and Duhon the only ones) to really allow us to really know his philosophy.

anyway, I hope that both of them are around at the right price, both for talent and team chemistry purposes.

by GWKD on Oct 5, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I would argue

that the "take less money because of where you came from" argument is faulty for a few reasons.

how does a birthplace or any other geographic location change the exchange rate? It's not like Deng is gonna build his crib in the Sudan and fly in for games.
Why should they want less? Who does it benefit. It won't lower ticket prices, that's for damn sure. And, if we are talking signing other players, then the player HAS to assume the team/organization really will go after other players with that money. I know this worked in NE w/ Tom Brady (and I do personally choose to believe that this is why I would like to see them take less money) but, can they really be faulted for not believing this themselves? I don't think so.
Will the goodwill from taking less money benefit them or anybody they care about down the road? I don't see how the can reasonably expect it to.

The fact is, the money's there and they can reasonably stake a claim to some portion of it. For my own selfish reasons, I think it would be great if we got them at a 'value', but I'm not gonna call them names if they don't. If, as a fan, I'm not going to see any of that money, I'd rather it go to personnel than Krause's warchest.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 5, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't think anyone would argue

that Sam mailed this one in.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 5, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions

If I may toot my own horn

There's nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

by BenGo07 on Oct 4, 2007 1:02 PM CDT reply actions

Contracts.

I see Gordon asking for 10-12, with a bargain happening for more years. Scorers can be cheaper than solid players who play both ends, like Ben doesn't really. He lacks an ideal position, and wouldn't get much on the FA market, because noone can pay it. Does anyone else notice a trend back to players staying in one place for a long time because all the teams are over the cap?

I see Luol asking for 10-12 also, but wanting less years, to reach free agency sooner.

That said, they should walk through the ghetto sometime, and take 45/5, realizing that they should thank god for being tall(ok, only Luol) and talented(Gordon especially). Luol will undoubtedly do good for thousands of Africans within days. That kind of character is hard to find nowadays.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 2:00 PM CDT reply actions

Correction

I meant 50/5.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Care to explain

what you meant by "they should walk through the ghetto sometime, and take 45/5, realizing that they should thank god for being tall and talented."???

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions

uhm,

maybe we shouldn't get into that. It would be great to have a thread that doesn't get derailed by politics or any other non-basketball issue. Not flaming anybody, but I can smell the blood in the water.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 4, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Or

they could take a walk through my office and thank god they are tall and talented and take 50/5.

Score. Or do not score. There is no clutch.

by preverbal on Oct 4, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions

amen

by KT on Oct 4, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions

I simply meant they should realize how lucky they

are, and should be grateful. 50/5 or 60/5 is a great set of options. Any scenario short of being King could have been substituted. I thought of using a standard job as the comparison, but decided that the ghetto might work just as well.

Truthfully, Luol should visit the Sudan, and Ben could visit your job. Either way, they might appreciate that negotiating tough might not be worth the uncertainty and stress, and might hurt the team.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

i think i see

what you meant by that statement...no harm, no foul. But do us a favor though, next time just leave the "ghetto" out of it. Stick to using the standard "9-5 job" analogy.

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Ghetto

Is a loaded word. I just mean that it's ridiculous to debate the difference between 50 and 60 million when some people make less in a year than you do per field goal.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions

it's ridiculous to be on blogabull

if your concern over poverty is that great. I think your ghetto usage was harmless though. And who still works 9-5?

by hscs on Oct 4, 2007 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Poverty not what I meant.

Ghetto was an unnecessarily extreme example, and I agree that it isn't the right example, as a normal day job is more than enough of a contrast. It's not about poverty. It's about seeing the big picture, Ted Bruschi style. Kirk and Skiles have both had such revelations in the past couple years about wanting more money, then settling for the Bulls' offer.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions

if the great Teddy Bruschi

saw the big picture, he'd stay home from football and not risk another stroke (or whatever the hell happened to him).

I frown (and grimace, really) upon any mention of players keeping perspective. Screw that, get paid. They have no obligation to the Bulls to be nice and save them a few million. Take less money in exchange for security, sure, but not as a gift to chairman Jerry.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 4, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions

who still works 9-5?

I don't know...maybe a few million people?

by ScottieCartwright on Oct 4, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Hurt the team

I think that team flexibility is not put at the top of player's negotiating criteria. I'm not sure why.

They would be likely signing 5 year deals that start at the end of this year, meaning they would commit to 6 years on one team, with salary being increasing and increasingly hard to move as the contract matures. I'm not sure why most players don't cut the contract in 3/4, and just ask for a no trade clause. Then they could be moved, but only if they wanted to. A year or two could be added to give financial security. During a smaller annual contract, they can request trades which might be feasible. Front loading might fit these criteria, as they are more likely to want out towards the end of the contract. Kobe is stuck, Garnett asked for a trade for 3 years, and the team had to bite the bullet on a poor trade to get rid of him. I guess what I'm saying is that with most teams over the cap, the ability to trade players would be facilitated by giving up money for control. Which, in my humble opinion, would be a good trade for most players.

As a fan, I do like Kobe's cell phone videos though, and such a change might eliminate hubris-filled trade pronouncements with little chance of viability, truly one of the pleasures of the NBA.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 3:03 PM CDT reply actions

neither deng nor gordon

nor anyone on thsi team would qualify for a no trade clause

by milesgmsu on Oct 9, 2007 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Let's not forget the role of...

Agents -- they get paid commission on each of these contracts, so they want as big a contract as possible, by default.

I remember reading years ago that when Phil Jackson would enter contract negotiations with Bulls management, he never really cared about how much money he made (which is obviously not the case these days), but his agent pushed him towards the upper spectrum for "respect", etc.

I'm not saying that's what's at work here, but I think its worth considering as something of a factor.

by bigintangibles on Oct 4, 2007 3:35 PM CDT reply actions

Jackson

Of course coaches' salaries aren't limited by the salary cap. There's only going to be a handful of teams that will be able to offer Lu and Ben a max-type deal. Ultimately it will probably be in their best interest to re-sign with the Bulls for a "fair" offer from Pax.

I think Pax's biggest mistake was paying Chandler big bucks as a RFA when no other teams had even made an offer. He probably could have gotten him much cheaper. The choice between Wallace and Chandler earning roughly the same salary is debatable, but if Chandler was making $4-5 million less per year, Pax might have hung on to him and looked to upgrade the roster elsewhere. (Not that I'm complaining.)

by Mike Aparicio on Oct 4, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Did I hear a complaint?

You better watch your mouth. He's out there.

Get that out of Tyrus' House!!!!

by cubbybear on Oct 4, 2007 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

holy shit

at least we kow when big ben retires, and with the increasing poltiical correctness of the world, Friday the 13th will ahve a new jason voorhees

by milesgmsu on Oct 9, 2007 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Before we jump the gun on the contract extensions

Let's note that Sam Smith's column doesn't actually report any inside facts on where negotiations are going. I have nothing against Sam, but if you look at what he wrote.

"I'm not sure where the Bulls are with Gordon and Deng. But I'm guessing they have offered $10 million or $11 million per season."

He's just guessing about the inital offers, and clearly does not have any concrete info for us to chew on. The article seems more focused on the overall opinion about how much NBA players make in the first place.

So all we can do is speculate, but it's not like we really expected the extension to happen particuarly quickly, as we saw last year with Hinrich.

by Bullschicago on Oct 4, 2007 4:13 PM CDT reply actions

Ran across this on BG

It's from the NY Daily News, so judge its credibility for yourself:

Ben Gordon wants a $70 million extension from the Bulls, who are looking to give Gordon no more than Kirk Hinrich money ($47.5 million) and first want to extend Luol Deng, a player they regard more highly than the Mount Vernon product.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 7, 2007 9:07 AM CDT reply actions

It wouldn't

surprise me if it were true. If he thinks he deserves that kind of money let him go.

by sue369 on Oct 7, 2007 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions

And more of the same

From hoopsvibe:

Yesterday, Gordon reiterated that he wants $70 million from Chicago. This is troubling because the Bulls are an ensemble cast, who share the rock. Gordon, through his demands, is saying he's more important to the team's success than Kurt Hinrich, who received $47 million, and Luol Deng, who is also negotiating an extension.

The Bulls are in an impossible situation. They're built around Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich and one young star can't make significantly more money than the others. Paying Gordon his $70 million could frustrate Deng and Hinrich. And taking a hard line with Gordon could frustrate their instant-offense two-guard.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 7, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions

vague vague vague!

where is $70 million coming from? Gordon? His agent? Some doof on a message board?

by hscs on Oct 7, 2007 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

I am suspicious

of any article that mentions Kurt Hinrich.

Score. Or do not score. There is no clutch.

by preverbal on Oct 7, 2007 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah,

Someone corrected him rather succinctly in the comments following the article.

I just came across it this morning and thought I'd pass it along for anyone who was interested in the latest rumors.

"They had me do a psychology test and I asked Coach Skiles if that affected his coaching. He laughed and said, `No way.'" (Joakim Noah)

by wjb1492 on Oct 7, 2007 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions

I really hope that's not true

that would be ridiculous.

Nocioni-Khryapa in '08

by bullshooter on Oct 8, 2007 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions

NY News = Agitation

I am of the opinion that much of the rumors that spring from the NY rags are hopeful ruminations that do more to stir the pot than they do introduce a true story.
Nevertheless, this is a reassuring tidbit, especially considering its the first words on the subject to come from the horses mouth....

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/594394,100907bulls.article

-- Gordon denied a New York Daily News report that claimed he was in the market for a five-year, $70 million contract extension. He is eligible to become a restricted free agent after the season. Asked whether $55 million is closer to the truth, Gordon said, "No comment."

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 9, 2007 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Ahhhhhh

This is what I'm talking about:
Deng's hunger to improve and his serious work ethic continue to impress the Bulls' front office. And general manager John Paxson said he knows his ongoing contract negotiations with Deng's agent -- which could lead to a five-year contract worth more than $50 million before the season opens Oct. 31 -- will not change Deng.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/593111,CST-SPT-bull08.article

I do appreciate that Pax seems to keep a handle on both dollar value and contract length in his negotiations.

"...Keeping 'SlowHand' alive since aught-five"

by CookDing on Oct 8, 2007 7:46 AM CDT reply actions

Gamesmanship

This is all just a part of the game. The Sam Smith article is ludicrous as he provides no factual basis for what he's "reporting". I'm sure this will get taken care of, the same we Tyson, Hinrich, and Noch were taken care of. The good thing is, both sides want to get deals done and I'm sure they will.

by bigballa10 on Oct 8, 2007 9:05 AM CDT reply actions

Here's a little of Paxson's thinking

Found this in the Sporting News(don't look Matt, its about Andre's deal):

Speaking of paychecks, one of the great dramas of the summer has been the way the bloodsport that is restricted free agency has played out. But, at Bulls camp, there's a reminder that things needn't be that way. Back in early July, the opening of the free-agent period, Chicago and restricted free agent Andres Nocioni agreed to a five-year, $38 million contract with very little negotiation. Having gotten the deal done early, Nocioni went to work right away, healing from his plantar fasciitis and losing 10 pounds to help ensure he stays healthy. While many restricted free agents have been left bitter after this offseason, Nocioni said, "It feels great, really nice. The contract showed me that they are happy with the job I am doing here. So now I want to go out and do everything I can to make them happy they gave me the contract."

I also asked Bulls general manager John Paxson about the deal, specifically, whether the fact that so many restricted free agents are feeling the squeeze had made him reconsider how quickly he moved to pay Nocioni. Paxson could have played hardball, forced Nocioni to look for another offer and given him a lowball deal. "I don't look at it that way," Paxson said. "Maybe I am misguided, maybe I should look at it that way. But I think you go into a negotiation, you try to be fair and you hope that the player and his agent are fair, too. If so, you get it done." ...

by KT on Oct 8, 2007 6:56 PM CDT reply actions

the link

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=287485

by KT on Oct 8, 2007 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Its got to be a better way

in terms of the team's rep around the league and with agents, as long as it doesn't really limit your flexibility by overpaying everyone. See McHale, Kevin.

Score. Or do not score. There is no clutch.

by preverbal on Oct 9, 2007 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions