Preseason open thread: Bulls at Mavericks
That's right, PRESEASON.
160 comments of Aaron Gray talk and I'm convinced that half of you are at best overthinking things and at worst insane. I'm a little crazy myself for taking Skiles at his word and overreacting in the first place, but I have a lot of lingering psychological issues over Chris Duhon that's difficult to overcome.
But it was a fun day, anyway.
So...it all comes down to this. If Aaron Gray takes the ball and deftly lays it in during the first posession, shriek with delight and call me names. Apparently that's all it takes to get impressed with a new Bull: be tall and make a layup.
I'll still say it's preseason and the games don't count, none of this means anything, and Skiles is just yanking our collective chain to tick off Thomas and Noah and Smith and, heck, even Nocioni. Well played you combovered savant, got us good!
(I still say that if Gray's performance tonight matters in the least we're all in for a long couple months while Skiles 'figures things out'. guh.)
0 recs |
186 comments
Comments
Tyrus or Joakim
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 5:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Put on your
by sue369 on Oct 23, 2007 6:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What does combovered mean?
by NittanyBull on Oct 23, 2007 6:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
combovered
by boyonthedock on Oct 23, 2007 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see
by NittanyBull on Oct 23, 2007 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I will be watching out for Khryapa
by GWKD on Oct 23, 2007 6:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Skiles is just playing mind games
by eddiew23 on Oct 23, 2007 6:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As long as he's not getting tanked like Duhon
by eddiew23 on Oct 23, 2007 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I don't get Skiles at all
by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 7:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it fate that Gray scored our first 4 points?
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AG is the reason the Bulls are even in this
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ohhh aaron gray
by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He rebounds...he passes...he SHOOTS
So what's not to love?
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And ain't afraid to play with one shoe on!
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, no kiddin'! LOL
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...he's been good all pre-season
But he has been solid.
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 7:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get to watch these games
by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no, normally
by alec on Oct 23, 2007 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he gets it stripped
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My feed sucks tonight
by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 8:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Smith not so hot....
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Khryapa
Or is he the Bulls' new black hole?
by james@lifeinthecell on Oct 23, 2007 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing is
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 8:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This team...
Maybe Gardner can sort this out.
by BenGo07 on Oct 23, 2007 8:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
only 9 points so far in this quarter?
by james@lifeinthecell on Oct 23, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dirk always gets away with murder...
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you'll be happy to know
There's always the start of the next half...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 8:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
bwahahaha
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That first Tyrus attempt
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naw...he's played good enough to be
Bwhahahaha! :-)
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why did the Mavs just shoot 4 free throws?
by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Technical on Skiles
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 8:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i love skiles
hey do they pay fines for preseason t's?
by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one who is concerned that our
I am assuming (hoping) it is due to injuries and atypical lineups.
(P.S. Viktor off the bench before TT? Preseason anomoly.)
by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 8:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It's the lineup
by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many missed layups?
by Freethefro on Oct 23, 2007 9:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is gonna sound really mean
Aaron Gray just looks ugly and like a dork. I think that's why I don't want him starting. It's just aesthetically not pleasing to watch him start.
by Option27 on Oct 23, 2007 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeesh
why do we have to? the coaching staff should, in practice, heh.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
oh man
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Matt -
Why do you hate the guy so much?
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's HIS fault?
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point being that I will judge the rotation
In any case, Deng is out and it is preseason, so this whole We'll have to see how things go in the regular season.
by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whole conversation is moot
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate having to care about what he does
Then again it's preseason so you can't spend too much time on Gordon's ankle...
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in all honesty
Not throwing out the "awesome" kudos on the guy, but he IS showing promise.
And commentators get paid to talk about positive team players during games...
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's lame
Someday I'll here King on a broadcast and know.
Scott Williams, btw, has been hired by the Bucks broadcasting network. I wonder how he is.......
by KT on Oct 23, 2007 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The team just looks lathargic tonight
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad this is just a meaningless preseason game
And the rotation is killing me.
by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Skiles is concerned about balancing lineups
so why do I see Duhon/Thabo/Gardner/Thomas/Noah?
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ugh, this isn't even fair to the players involved
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yay, Noah looked good there
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and Tyrus witn a spectacular drive/layup
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I am completely biased (its possible), but
by 1958ChiTown on Oct 23, 2007 9:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What more do you want
LOL :-)
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's had a fine preseason too
The stuff about the summer (which is overblown to the point to now he's portrayed as doing nothing) has nothing to do with Aaron Gray, just about Tyrus being a better player himself.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's had a fine preseason too
And you know Skiles - he HATES when a player doesn't give 100% effort. And Thomas didn't help his case by giving that impression, at least, by pulling what he did over the summer.
Gray's just a rookie who is playing very well and keeps his mistake level down.
That is a recipe for a love fest from Skiles.
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just because I understand WHY Skiles does this
I can't officially be mad until opening night. Fair enough.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously,
by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to KC
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rotations this game have killed me
by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 9:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
don't worry, Skiles is just experimenting
nah, it carries over to mid-January ;-)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I heard Skiles'
by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
Obviously, having Luol in the mix makes things a lot different.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did learn
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 9:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In my mind that makes him good
by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, we have a winner
Thomas: 16min, 3-6fg, 4-8ft, 5rebs, 0ast, 2pf, 1to, 0blk
So, they played even, therefore Gray fails to win starting job. Noah had a better boxscore than both anyway.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
while I may have wasted everyone's time posting
He looked fine, and I'm pleased that he's looked good enough to make the rotation and likely stay away from the D-League all year.
Instead Skiles has to take this too far and make us yell at eachother. :-)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you considered what you'll do
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what do you mean, 'do'?
I'll instead drastically reduce my hopes for the season, and question the whole direction of the organization, and question the idea of more talent actually making Skiles a liability instead of the strength I normally view him as.
lets put it this way:
Starting Duhon, Giving Adrian Griffin a 3 year deal, Giving Ben Wallace max money, giving Nocioni a 5 year deal, drafting Noah, keeping Deng off the trading table for Bryant, starting Aaron Gray, just says that this team cares way too much about brownie points instead of talent. I'm sure you can all come up with more/better examples of what I'm talking about, but I mean all those examples not to be chosen singularly but as a general trend.
So how's that for an answer, smartass? :)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
note: I did not watch the game so I can't say for sure which player did better. But in the last two games it was Gray, no question.
by JSlakov on Oct 23, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was the same tonight.
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, you can do better than that, Matt
Where's the melodrama?
by wjb1492 on Oct 23, 2007 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they make gray jerseys?
Aoooooooooo
by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, they played even
Gray is just a rook and TT is supposed to be a veteran and be MUCH better then Gray...
But he's not.
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
first of all, it's preseason
thirdly, Tyrus was a major contributor to this team's run as a playoff team.
fourthly, it's preseason.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, it can be argued
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They''re not even
by Scotter on Oct 23, 2007 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at no point were they ever even
And that didn't come from box stats - it came from watching the game.
And I don't think I'm fooling myself either.
And no matter HOW good TT is or isn't - he is a slacker in Skiles' eyes.
And that alone makes HIM have to be WAY better than Gray.
But Matt's right - this is only preseason and what happens now doesn't matter.
What happens when the season starts for real - the 5th starter will be whoever it is.
And I would not be surprised or unhappy if it was Gray or Thomas.
I like them both.
Okay?
Geesh...
by Bluelou on Oct 23, 2007 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
enough about how Skiles feels
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the biggest news
He couldn't play any of the 'young player, malcontent, not working' cards that he does with Thomas or Noah, so I don't see how he could give the rookie the nod over the vet.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Smith is coming off an injury
by Big D on Oct 23, 2007 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is what trips me out the most
They signed him pretty much to fill that 5th spot. And it's obvious what he can do when he's healthy.
Put him in there
by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gray is Good.
Noah is ehhhhhh.
Gray for president.
I don't think the Bulls are as good as people think. I know it's just preseason. But I worry.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the fact that Gray is considered
The confidence I had in this team has taken a drastic hit in like a week, that's for sure. And it's mostly due just to Skiles' comments, not actual gameplay.
I don't think people realize that Tyrus doesn't even have to improve to already be good. And just because Skiles is verbally rapping his wrists doesn't mean he hasn't improved.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 23, 2007 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kid.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tyrus though
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But can Gray dunk?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
like Thabo.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 23, 2007 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't wana make judgments
I remember how hyped the Bulls were at the start of last season and then they went out west and sucked ass.
I guess the question is can this team beat the Pistons in a playoff series? I feel like I am in limbo with this team.
Or even a team like Toronto they are better. I woudn't wana play Toronto in the playoffs.
But then the question is will you have enough around Kobe to compete. This is an odd start to a season. I have no clue who the Bulls are. Overatted is my gut feeling. Maybe it's just too soon to tell. This team reminds me of the 80's Cavs. They didn't win a title.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What have we gotten,
by alec on Oct 24, 2007 12:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
I'll be surprised if Grey is the starter. ...and, honestly, a bit concerned that Smith or Tyrus (with more years in the league) haven't secured the starting spot. However, there are positives to Gray, it's not like he's Scott Pollard or something. He passes very well, he can score in the paint and seems to have his head in the game. Even with it being preseason, it is apparent that he has too much talent to have been a 2nd round pick.
Surprisingly, King managed to make a salient point that by virtue of his size alone, his picks are very advantageous in an offense so dependent on movement. I think there is additional value in the fact that his size should be very beneficial for the undersized players that have previously been stuck guarding players that outweight them so egregiously.
That being said, I would like to think that Tyrus could clearly (in Skiles' eyes) establish himself as a starter. But even if they score the same amount of points, the do it in such drastically different ways that comparing stats is pointless.
As for the rest of the game, I caught bits and pieces. Unfortunately, I did not see a lot of Tyrus. Lil Ben looked a little rusty, which is to be expected.
Kirk, however, looked excellent in what bits I saw. Lots of crafty play that put the Mavs on the defensive and set up teammates. I would really like to see him take a leap this year and move into his prime. Very happy with what I saw from him.
Missing Deng was a pretty big story for me. It was clear that the difference b/w him and Noce is a big one. Noce should be coming off the bench so that our second line doesn't look so hopeless.
Noah had some solid plays sprinkled with lost ones. I cringe when he tries to create a shot. He would best focus on putback points, at least from what I've seen.
Khryapa is living up to his name (on several levels). He looked terrible and I hope he doesn't have to play much.
The Mavs absolutely got away with murder. Are the refs allowed to bet on preseason games? Looked like it last night.
Don't be fooled by the final score, this was a game until we went to our bench.
Oh, and Wallace guarding Dirk should NEVER happen. That's absolutely when Smith, Deng or Tyrus need to start.
by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 8:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw 6 new comments in the thread,
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ouch fair enough
And if it weren't for a 5 hour "professioanlism summit" for the MSU Democrats I would have been here live. Unfortuantely, I am unable to figure out how to mate my radio, computer, tv, and TIVO into a behemoth bulls recording device.
by milesgmsu on Oct 24, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't a crticism. I just got a kick out of
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It had to be either that,
Of course, since there were only 6 comments, the odds favored it being milesgmsu.
by wjb1492 on Oct 24, 2007 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ha!
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this
by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and Duhon can buy him a Jaeger-bomb.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had to
by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither of us
BTW, Skiles in the Trib this morning said Gray's earned a spot in the rotation, not necessarily starting.
Exact quote:
Not that he's near as good as Eddy Curry, but not since Eddy have we had somebody who could catch it in [the post] and have a move they could go to and score," Skiles said. "I don't know any better than anybody else if he can do that in regular NBA games. I can only base it on what I see. And so far he has done it.
"That's enough to give him an opportunity to play. That doesn't necessarily mean he'll start. But it should be enough to get him in the rotation."
by KT on Oct 24, 2007 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See if Skiles had just said that,
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Skiles just wants to screw with us
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Skiles just wants to screw with us
If he did, then I WOULD be worried about his credibility and coaching decisions....
Coming back here today and re-reading what was said last night, I will state again for the record:
I don't really care whether it's TT, Gray, Smith or even Paxson coming back to play....
Whoever ends in the 5th spot is who ends up with it and that's that.
And Skiles echoed my thoughts and what I was attempting to point out last night in HIS statment: That Gray is good enough to land him a spot in the rotation - starting or not is up to how things play out.
But worrying about it, getting all worked up and flaming people just because they like the way he plays is pointless and I agree with what Sue said - this thread should be changed to crying thread instead of game thread.
Because guys can't even talk about genuine, POSITIVE things that certain players do without getting jumped on because other guys don't like the player(s) mentioned...
CookDing has a great "perspective" post up above and I would tend to agree with him.
FWIW...
by Bluelou on Oct 24, 2007 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, sunshine and rainbows
So, yeah, Skiles doesn't care what we think (I meant 'screwing with us' in vague terms, it's more like screwing with the media and with his own players) and shouldn't. Doesn't mean we can't say it anyway. Do I really need to get into the fundamental nature of being a 'helpless' fan? really?
I don't have a problem with people saying Gray is performing well. But I don't think he's earned the starting job and the idea of it really bothers me, thus people agreeing with that bothers me too. POSITIVELY bothers me.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
POSITIVELY bothers me
by Bluelou on Oct 24, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All worked up
I'll chalk it up to lingering emotional scars left from Duhon starting over Gordon.
by preverbal on Oct 24, 2007 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget 'any' circumstances
It's this circumstance. It's a dumb and unnecessary idea, and based on evidence from games that don't count.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm real worked up
Considering it's the preseason, there's nothing "genuine" to say about any player performances.
by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey
Keep calling my post great, just realize that I'm also erring towards "Gray starting, me no likey".
by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's a good Aaron Gray question
by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
contract was extended
by KT on Oct 24, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
:rolls eyes:
by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No use in beating a dead horse
Apparently the Lakers are really interested in Nocioni and are holding out till Dec 15th
by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if it's new, interesting information
I just don't like the "here's my Kobe 'thoughts'" in a new diary every day.
And I don't see the difference between burying it here or burying it there, except to divert the discussion, which I also try to avoid.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean...
by torch on Oct 24, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The King chimes in on Kobe....
James was asked after practice Tuesday about the possibility of Kobe Bryant being traded. It has basically been the NBA's hottest topic since June and has been rekindled of late since Los Angeles Lakers owner Jerry Buss told reporters he would be willing to trade his signature star. The Chicago Bulls, a Cavs rival in the Central Division, are a potential landing spot.
''Hopefully he's not traded to the East, but it looks like he's headed this way,'' James said. ''If he does, they say Chicago is the No. 1 place. It would be fun to play against Chicago four times a year. We're two competitors, and we love playing against each other.''
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow from the face of the NBA
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My vote is
by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's the guy
Yep, talking out of his ass.
by KT on Oct 24, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oakley can't come back
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way they're looking
So my guess is that the offer would be Gordon, Nocioni, Tyrus or Joakim, a first round pick and maybe another cap filler?
That's if the report is right
by Option27 on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mastrol-ie
by GWKD on Oct 24, 2007 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was pumped up for Corry Blount!
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
or is it Courie?
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gray vs. Thomas?
I've heard people saying that the fact that Aaron Gray might start is a sign that this team is worse than they thought. How about it might be better than they thought because they've got something we didn't think they'd have, a second rounder who might actually contribute (like everyone's favorite Duhon). Does Gray starting or being a position player make the team bad? Not if he's effective. Just because he wasn't highly touted out of college doesn't mean he can't play and he's replacing the likes of Sweetney and Malik Allen. In my opinion this whole Gray thing is a positive, whether he winds up starting or not, and not a sign of the apocalypse.
by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 1:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yes, Gray being good is a good thing
I consider Thomas and Gray (and Noah, Smith, Noc) to all be a part of the frontcourt rotation. Which is a zero-sum game in terms of minutes, so I think it's relevant to compare them.
(In fact, some arguments are made here in support of Gray over Thomas not because he's better but because Thomas had a less-than-ideal offseason. That's even worse than a performance-based competition.)
The reason I think starting Gray is an indictment on the team as a whole is not because Gray turned out to be competent (again, if confirmed -ITS PRESEASON- is a good thing), but because it's showing that Skiles is up to his same old bullshit tricks of starting lesser players to motivate others (or whatever his reasons) and punting the idea of starting out well to instead 'learn things' in the first few months.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting minutes are entitlement minutes.
This has been far more about hating on Skiles and anyone else that fails to understand Thomas that Thomas is significantly more productivie than Gray than it is about hating on Gray. Thomas and Gray shouldn't be in competition with each other, but this time it was Skiles and not the media that put them in competition with each other. And if Skiles does start Gray, I'll probably end up hating Gray the way I do Duhon. I much rather be able to enjoy his success than be pissed that he's on the floor. But, sometimes children end up suffering for the sins of their parents.
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah, that was almost poetic.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting it here
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/specials/preview/2007/enemy.lines/bulls.html
"The one guy who could eventually solve their problems up front is second-year forward Tyrus Thomas, who isn't as tough as Skiles would like. His attitude has surprised me. They invested a lot in him and he could be a Darko [Milicic] for them. He's not a brain surgeon and he picks and chooses his times to appear that he's playing hard, and he made quite a few mistakes last year that changed games for them in a bad way. Then he also had those games where he was playing good, and I think ultimately he's going to be a really good player. He's been a guard for the majority of his life and he has some good skills, and he has continued to grow all the time. LSU screwed him up by telling him to stand under the basket and block shots and they didn't teach him a whole lot. He has the tools to be a dominant player. If he learns to play hard, he'll be a difference-maker. Usually it's in the third year that a guy like him decides whether he's going to make $10 million a year or $6 million a year on his next contract ...
Thomas is at least a full season away from turning the corner, and even then I don't know if he wants to go in the post and be doubled, rather than be out on the floor where he can show all the things he can do."
Don't shoot the messenger
by CookDing on Oct 24, 2007 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bonus points for Gray
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know it's a scout
by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cnnsi has done this scout thing
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always like reading them
by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like how it starts off
third?? Obviously this is a Cavs, Pistons, or Celtics scout...lol
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 24, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI: thread is up for the SI.com scout article
(See? If you write something coherent and formatted I'm significantly less picky over the content)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's unsurprising...
Have the hi-light reels actually turned some of us against how good he actually was and can be? "Sure, he jumps a lot, but that's not that special, and he looks REALLY stupid out there at times. Everyone in the NBA can jump. Therefore, he's not really THAT good."
by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure but
As far as minutes spread, perhaps this is a fundamental disagreement but I don't think the Bulls are going to win the championship this year. With Gray, Thomas or Kobe starting. We know Ben Wallace is wearing down and eventually his minutes will have to be replaced. Gray is the only center on our roster and since Wallace has been our de facto center for the last two years, Gray is a good candidate to replace those minutes. I'm looking at the big picture. I don't really care about who starts as much as good lineups and while I know a lot of you think that Wallace and Thomas are a good fit, I disagree. If Gray doesn't work out, thats why we got Joe Smith.
by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the problem your eyes lie to you
Tyrus also isn't a nonscorer because whenever he's in the lineup he's going to get to the FT line, an area that's been a bit of problem for the Bulls. He also runs the floor, which is pretty important when Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng are pushing the ball. Actually having a froncourt player that can actually get across half court before the shot goes up might just be a little helpful. People's eyes lie to them all the time, it's imossible to take in everything that happens on the court.
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your last sentence
There's WAY too much exaggeration that goes on here whenever someone is for or against anything.
I think some of your Tyrus assessment is a little over the top...at the same time, I don't think he's bad enough to get passed over by Gray, as far as minutes go.
Right now, Tyrus isn't the end all answer to the Bulls front-court problems. But he IS more of an answer than anyone else they have.
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 24, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it bad form to say you missed the point?
by hscs on Oct 24, 2007 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no it's not bad form
but I wasn't disagreeing with his "lying eyes" comments...I completely agree with that.
The part I was disagreeing with was it SOUNDED (I guess I'm wrong) like he was ripping the other poster for having lying eyes but saying that he, himself did not have lying eyes.
by ScottieCartwright on Oct 25, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how you missed the point
Both personal observation and stats are needed. It's impossible to use basketball stats without also watching the game. They require a level of interpretation that comes only from personal observation. But, personal observation is just as likely to be misleading as stats. The human brain has to fixate and focus on specfic things, it's impossible to take in everything when watching a game.
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"statistical fact"
by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not an oxymoron.
Saying, "I like cheese," is stating a fact. It's not a statistic. You can look it up if you want.
All stats are facts (assuming they aren't fictional). Not all facts are stats. I remember going over this in sixth grade and something to do with squares and rectangles or something.
by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
Lies, damned lies and statistics, ever heard that one?
by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It certainly was redundant, and poor writing in my
It isn't that hard to think of reasons why those five players playing together led to such good results. Playing the two best interior defenders together agains the opposing team's best players might just be a good idea. Pairing Wallace, a player that almost never attacks offensively, with a player that actually attacks and forces the defense to defend the basket might just work. Pairing Wallace a decent interior passer with a guy who can actually finish at the rim might just be a good idea. Gee, I wonder if that's partly why Wallace averaged 3.7 assists/40 min during the 400+ minutes with Tyrus on the floor. And that's just how Tyrus might just play well with Wallace. But then again what's the importance of out scoring the other team anyway. It's just a stupid statistic.
by Scotter on Oct 24, 2007 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to also add to what you said before...
Having a fast man who wants to attack the basket hard in those situations, and who can make it with them down the floor, allows them yet another far above average option on the fast break/2ndary break offense.
Thomas' desire to head towards the rim and his excellent leaping ability also lend towards him being a very good offensive rebounder on the missed jump shots. Gray can't provide either of those at near the level Thomas can.
Hinrich has been a 2ndary break-type of guy for 8 years now. And Gordon and Deng have been aggressive for at least three. While they don't try to do it all the time (maybe they would more if Thomas was out there for 20+ minutes), it'd sure be nice to have Thomas out there instead of Gray for the 3-4 times a half it's probably available (number pulled out of my ass). Since the starters are used to this and can do it well (especially the main ball-handler), I feel I'd much rather start the game off trying to get easy buckets like this, and if that's not working, "slow it down and dump it in." Not the other way around.
by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2007 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't agree more.
(to get a CHIP) you need to think about long-term developement over immediate success. The priority is getting Tyrus, Noah and Gray up to Championship caliber. How Skiles does that will obviously be based individually on each of their characters. Limiting Smith's minutes should be the main goal, so that we can get the young guys minutes. Let's not worry so much over who is starting etc.
by philosoball on Oct 24, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also wouldn't mind limiting Big Ben burn for that
by philosoball on Oct 24, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bwahaha
(I don't usually fully buy into his Bulls opinions, as he's more negative overall than I am, but that was funny)
by your friendly BullsBlogger on Oct 24, 2007 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that was over the top, I heard that also.
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as I know
to not get scored on on the other hand...
by JSlakov on Oct 24, 2007 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those to sentenced where not really
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also said this is the same Bulls team from last
by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Oct 24, 2007 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surprisingly--Stacy has said it
by alec on Oct 24, 2007 3:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Guess who are
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/fullcourtpress/
by sue369 on Oct 24, 2007 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Eyes Burn
Skiles is just messing with us. Gray will not start. Smith or TT.
Has a 2nd rounder ever started the first game of his rookie season? I know, that Q/A means nothing, but come on. come on.
by chicago-homesick-blues on Oct 24, 2007 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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