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The pursuit of Pau Gasol (starring myself in the role of Sam Smith)

As I said over the weekend, Peter Vescey may be wrong some (most) of the time, but he is getting information from somewhere. His 'Pau Gasol wants out and perhaps the Bulls are interested' rumor has mushroomed over the past 24 hours and now the word is out of Memphis that Gasol truly wants out, although he's not such a problem yet that he'll be given away. (hat tip to YAYSports)

Just like in the (assumed) case of the Timberwolves, the Grizzlies will want a pick in this coming draft for their franchise player, and one of the few teams that could offer a pick that's more likely to get better than worse after a Gasol acquisition is the Bulls(since the pick isn't their own). I don't see a way a deal gets done without throwing in the pick, and that should be fine from the Bulls point of view, since that pick will mean they can keep some of their existing talent off of the trading table.

The Memphis Flyer's Chris Herrington speculates on what the Bulls could offer, and comes up with this scenario (+ the pick), calling it "the deal that would most maximize future value for the Grizzlies while leaving the Bulls in the best position to make a Finals run this season."

While not something I'd accept as a Bulls fan, at least his heart is in the right place in terms of each team's motivation. The early reports of the Grizzlies asking for Deng and Gordon lost sight of this: there's no point in trading for Gasol unless you're gunning for the title right now, and losing either of those two (arguably their best two this season) mitigates the gain of Gasol to where the team improvement would only be limited.

So take those guys off the table (and the Bulls source who Vescey talked to said as much), and how should the Bulls approach the tradeability of their roster? Let's group:

"The Young Core"
Hinrich/Gordon/Deng
-These guys should be considered untouchable in any Gasol trade. Luckily for the Bulls, Gordon and Deng would likely not be great fits in Memphis anyway, as Herrington mentions "Gordon seems like a poor fit next to Lowry as a backcourt-of-the-future and Deng duplicates Rudy Gay (and, potentially, Kevin Durant)." Hey, if they'd rather not 'block' Kyle Lowry...good luck with that. I feel the popular sentiment turning against grouping Hinrich with these guys, but it sounds like the Bulls deem him as such, which is what really matters.

Star-divide



"Expensive vets signed to long-term contracts"
Wallace/Griffin
-Man, I hope that 3 year deal to A-Drain has some unreported team options peppered in there. Anyway, these are guys that have no value to Memphis, in both age and salary.

"Expiring contracts"
Brown/Sweetney/Allen/MartyVicious/Barrett
- Like pirate gold to NBA GMs. The last two don't make much but could be included just for roster balance without long-term consequence.

"Young-ish pieces with nice contracts"
Nocioni/Khryapa/Duhon
-Nocioni's deal is expiring, and Khryapa and Duhon are signed through next season to relatively little money.  And while they are no longer considered prospects, they are all young enough to where Memphis should be interested in taking them. These 3 can all be bench contributors on a Bulls title team, but I'd have no issues giving any of them up in a deal for Gasol. That may surprise the Noc fan club (or likely not if they read here often), but getting someone who plays like Gasol (a big who needs the ball) makes Noc especially expendable. If Memphis acquired Nocioni they would have right to match offers to him as a restricted free agent (er...I think), so depending on how much they like him they can keep him or let him walk for even more cap space.

"The Rookies"
Thomas/Sefolosha
-This is where things get tricky, and either player (I doubt they'd deal both like in the suggestion from Memphis) could be the make or break to this deal. Memphis would likely be thrilled with either, although obviously more with Thomas. But would dealing Sefolosha leave the Bulls yet again with a too-undersized backcourt? Tyrus is the better talent, but short-term roster questions are what need to be addressed in this trade.

As for Memphis, they want the pick, young cheap players, and long term salary relief. The pick is assumed, and the other two can be paired with eachother: meaning the Bulls can hopefully avoid giving up their better young talent (the core and the rookies) by taking back more of Memphis' salary obligations.

Here's a list of Grizzlies veterans and their contracts:

Player   2006 2007 2008 2009
Eddie Jones  $15,697,500      
Pau Gasol  $12,364,000 $13,735,000 $15,106,000 $16,452,000
Mike Miller  $7,623,813 $8,376,194 $9,128,575 $9,880,937
Brian Cardinal  $5,400,000 $5,850,000 $6,300,000 $6,750,000
Stromile Swift  $5,400,000 $5,800,000 $6,200,000 (PO)  
Damon Stoudamire  $4,050,000 $4,350,000 $4,650,000  
Chucky Atkins  $3,000,000      
Jake Tsakalidis  $2,900,000      
Dahntay Jones  $1,886,113      
Hakim Warrick  $1,286,280 $1,376,040 $2,119,102  

(I included Jones and Warrick since they've been mentioned in speculated deals)

Keeping in mind that their max-contract obligation to Gasol would now be wiped off the books and Jones' deal will undoubtedly be allowed to expire, the Bulls can further offer salary relief by taking back any of Miller, Cardinal, Swift, or Stoudamire. A way to approach who to take is to consider how each can match up position-wise with rotation guys the Bulls would be willing to give up, especially Cardinal (Nocioni) and Stoudamire (Duhon). It's not like these guys were stiffs on Memphis, if they were in the East the past couple seasons you could be looking at conference finalists.

Sure there may be situations where you're accepting older, more expensive players that are worse than what's on the Bulls bench right now, but I think that's absolutely worth doing if it means keeping someone like Tyrus or Thabo out of the deal. If the Bulls balk at taking on such long term salary (for instance taking Atkins instead of Stoudamire) then they may have to include either rookie. You'd hope that Memphis would then in exchange throw in a lesser-talented young&cheap counterpart such as Warrick (for Thomas) or Jones (for Thabo). 

And maybe that's enough to ease the sting of giving up a rookie, but if I were the Bulls I'd first try and take all the salary I could without giving up on them. The vets would help the Bulls and get Memphis outstanding cap flexiblity and likely 2 lottery picks in the coming draft. Whatever golden situation the Bulls put them in should be of no concern to Bulls fans, even if they draft Oden and Durant and have $20m in cap room this offseason.

It comes down to how complete you'd think Gasol would make the roster, and I'd say his skillset combined with his age (only 26) makes him an ideal addition, and a starting 5 of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Gasol/Wallace would have the Bulls not only competing for the East crown, but head-and-shoulders above the field. With cap flexibility likely at it's pinnacle this trading deadline (before contracts expire and extensions kick in), the time to strike is now, and Gasol is one of the few players I'd aggressively pursue if I was Paxson.

(And of course how could I go through this without a final trade machine-generated scenario? With both trade packages including the pick, my ideal trade would be something like this (or this), although I guess I'd settle for this.)

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How does this affect re-signing Ben and Deng?
Also, didn't Sam Smith mention something today about the pick being untradeable?

by BenGo07 on Jan 23, 2007 1:05 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well....
it won't really affect that one bit if Reinsdorf was telling the truth when he said he'd be willing to pay a luxury tax to keep the Bulls a contender.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 6:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

one thing that helps
is that Wallace's deal is only 3 additional seasons.  Considering that even if they both are signed to extensions this offseason they wouldn't kick in until the '08-'09 season, the Bulls would only be around luxury tax territory for a couple years.

And like Colossus said, Reinsdorf claims he'll pay the tax for a contender. The Bulls are one of the richest franchises in the NBA.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I posted a while ago
about with the current team resinging everyone and paying minimal, if any, luxury tax

im not even going to go into tackling what we would do given various trade scenarios, although if and when a trade goes down i will take up that task

finally about the pick...PLEASE READ!!!

All the bulls have to do is include a future first rounder or future considerations, swap picks on draft day, and ba da boom ba da bing

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Please clarify
"I feel the popular sentiment turning against grouping Hinrich with these guys, but it sounds like the Bulls deem him as such, which is what really matters."

Who are "these guys"?
The Bulls deem him as what?

by Zac23 on Jan 23, 2007 1:06 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

ok
"these guys" - with Deng and Gordon Bulls "deem him" as untouchable.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 8:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so...
so popular sentiment is that out of the "young core"  Hinrich is most on the bubble?  even though deemed untradeable by the Bulls...

by Zac23 on Jan 23, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hinrich wont be traded
because of the amount of money he'll be making...grizz would be looking to have as little salary as possible

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about pick protection?
Let's assume hell freases, pigs learn to fly and the knicks start sucking real badly (okay that last one doesn't fit): Is there any way we can give them the pick with number 1 or top 3 protection and they'd still do it?
After all, there is still a (albeit remote) possibility of it being that high as long as the knicks don't win the trainwreck formerly known as the atlantic division...

by spider from split on Jan 23, 2007 8:46 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

why would Memphis do that?
I think it's a risk worth taking to just give them the pick outright. Like I said, who cares how good Memphis makes out, it's about what the Bulls can do.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 9:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Protecting the Pick
They talked about this last night in the postgame show.

Apparently the Bulls are unable to protect that pick.  All they have is the right to swap it.

by mruntouchable on Jan 23, 2007 9:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am curious how that could be the case
I think they'd have to declare the swap before they traded it.  Once they've declared the swap, they can say whatever they want about it.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 9:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Protecting Pick
All they said is that there is a league rule that prevents protecting swapped draft picks.  

by mruntouchable on Jan 23, 2007 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like your thinking
It's a shame Gasol can't throw a temper tantrum like so many others of his generation and put extra pressure on to get this deal done.  However, I don't see Jerry West doing any deal that doesn't net him at least one long term starter, and I am not sure Noc is that guy.  You don't get to be the logo for nothing.  I'd throw in the 08 pick too, if that helped.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 9:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

you can't deal consecutive picks, right?
but yeah, you could throw in a future protected first...

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 9:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree with that
But then I look back at the Vince Carter trade and the Iverson trade and see how little both those teams got back.  I know there's a lot of things that don't line up perfectly between the two scenarios (Gasol is a lot younger, isn't as much of a "star," and isn't causing any internal problems that we know of).  

Normally, I would agree that I don't want to give up Thomas, but I don't see any trade acceptable to Memphis where we get to keep him.  If I'm Memphis, I absolutely insist on Thomas (at a minimum) being in the trade.  From the Bulls' perspective, it isn't the worst thing.  He's probably going to be really good, but when?  He's going to be behind Deng and Gasol anyways.  

I think that if the Bulls can get Gasol without giving up any starters, it will have to be considered a win in the short term (they'll have Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Gasol, Wallace starting the next couple of years).  There are definitely ways it can be more of a win, but I won't complain too much if we have to give up as much as the Grizzlies writer wants.  

by Moses Taylor on Jan 23, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed on all points
They'll probably demand Thomas, and like you said it's not the worst thing in the world.

If they do deal Thomas though I'd hope the Bulls could get a frontcourt athlete back, either Warrick or Swift.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ty might actually enjoy that,
getting to play with his buddy Rudy all the time.

by wjb1492 on Jan 23, 2007 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That looks
far too complicated to ever happen.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

now that I think about it
Swift....kindof sucks. He used to at least block shots (something the Bulls could use), but his rates have dropped in that regard too, and he was never that good of a man defender (although you'd hope better than Noc against 4s).

Plus he's been out with back problems.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

although, he rebounds as well as Noc
even in his worst rebounding years.

Plus, he'd be a backup to Pau freaking Gasol

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not only is that too complicated
(whihc im not sure if is true)...but we would be assuming the logo has a stroke and has his red headed step child running the team....no way does memphis buy that trade

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nice post
I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Jan 23, 2007 9:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was going to
write a diary about this same issue.  I would do the trade with one exception.  We have to keep tyrus in any deal.  Everyone else Matt mentioned I consider expendable.  But the upside on Tyrus is just too much to give up at this time.  I wonder if Duhon not playing is any indication of things to come?

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 9:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think the DNP has more to do
with Duhon's struggle to play basketball, but I suppose specuation on a Sefolosha tryout can't be described as wild.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon DNP/Thabo
But is that a tryout in the sense of seeing what Thabo can do in meaningful minutes for the Bulls, or showcasing him for another team?  

It's probably just coincidence, but is interesting to think about.

by mruntouchable on Jan 23, 2007 10:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What about Hinrich?
Why not work a deal involving Hinrich?  You know Memphis wants him, and if they can get Mike Miller and gasol, I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 10:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How about
Hinrich,PJ,Sweets,Thabo for Gasol, Miller,1st round pick.  Not sure if the money works out.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 10:12 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How about not
Then you have to have Duhon run the point and I think we can all agree that Duhon is not as good as Hinrich.  Ben is a shooting guard, not a point guard.  And Deng will never be a 2.  Plus Hinrich's contract is not as appealing as others.  And Getting Miller back would be dumb too, unless you are going to move one of our 37 other forwards.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 10:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

STOP IT!!!
Kirk is not going any where.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 23, 2007 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

YES
Please stop it.. the only way kirk is going anywhere is if... oh wait, there is no way...

by Goostafer on Jan 23, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Analysis
I want Gasol.  Plus, I actually like Matt's second scenario a lot.  I know it adds $$$ to the payroll, but D. Stoudamire would be a really nice backup PG on our team
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 10:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Mike's not a forward
At Florida Mike was a 6'8" point guard at times.  He gives us much more versatility than Hinrich at 6"2" and don't forget won 6th man of the year award last year. This is a pretty serious proposed lineup;

Gordon
Miller
Deng
Gasol
Wallace

enough said

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 10:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why is everyone
in love with Hinrich's incosistent play?  He's playing better now, but you know it will only be a matter of time before he hits another one of his slumps.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 10:41 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

hey DannyRange
hit 'reply to this' when responding to a specific comment, so that it doesn't get put at the bottom of the page.

You're killing the flow of the offense here.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For the same reason
everyone is in love with Gordon's, Deng's, Tyrus's, Thabo's, Noc's, and Wallace's inconsistent play.  Everyone on this team has been inconsistent.  That's why they are only 4 games over .500 at that halfway point.  If you are going to make a "your two best players for some guys I don't like" trade, at least get a point guard back when you throw Hinrich in there so the trade makes sense.  Otherwise it is dumb.  And no, Miller can't play the point in the NBA.  At least not for skiles and these Bulls.  But maybe we could trade Skiles for Barone and just let Gordon shoot 50 times a game....

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 10:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're seriously underestimating
what Hinrich contributes to the team.  You aren't going to have a starting 5 where everyone packs the stats box.  Hinrich knows the offense, plays defense, doesn't mind playing for Skiles, and is a very good PG at an incredibly reasonable price.  I'm not saying he's an all-star right now, or that he's the best PG out there, but I am saying that I think he would be very hard to replace.  Count me among the people that think Ben is absolutely not a solution at PG, so who do you plug in there?

by wjb1492 on Jan 23, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't get me worng here
I like Hinrich, but to get the pieces you need to build a championship team, you have to give up something.  If Memphis is willing to do that deal, Pax would be extremely foolish not to bite.  Duhon has started for Skiles, and will work his way out of the doghouse.  AND DONT FORGET Ben has said he would rather play point instead of 2.  He's had productive minutes at point this season and just needs more experience.  And Miller could be like Scottie for us without the same D.  He could feasibly play point as well.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

First of all Ben Gordon
is not a point guard (well in his mind he is but not in Skiles and his opinion is the only one that counts). Duhon couldn't carry kirk's jock. It's foolish for you to keep harping on trading Kirk. It's not gonna happen junior.
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 23, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

scottie without the d?
you mean a 16 and 8 kinda guy.....they are a dime a dozen.....scottie was one of the best defenders inch for inch, if not ever....so don't sound so foolish

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

At Florida,
was also 7 years ago!  He has shown no improvement since then?  

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 10:45 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

well considering he doesn't play the point
then no, I'd expect no improvement at playing the point.

I think it'd kindof go like it did for Mike Dunleavy last night.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 10:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Matt,, if you have league pass
which something tells me you do, just watch Mike play.  You will notice that even with Damon or Chuck in the game, he's the one with the ball trying to create.  I know Mike can play point because he's played point for Fratello.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Czar's crawl up the court offensive
schemes leave quite a bit to be desired. I don't think Mike Miller is bragging about distributing in those.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mike is a nice player
people dont realize how much he can do for our team in particular.  Great passer, BIG 2 guard, good 3 shooter, high baketball IQ.  All things the Bulls value.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

seems too slow to play the two
But I'll watch some Memphis games on LeaguePass and see for myself. I did watch a bit of him against Denver last night, but only after the game was already out of reach.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why are you
continuing to argue that Mike is a better POINT GUARD than Kirk, for the BULLS?... are you serious?... Get with it man, the core of this team is KIRK, Gordon, Deng. Are you following this team at all?

by Goostafer on Jan 23, 2007 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that wont be
his primary position.  You still start either Duhon or Gordon at the point.  Depending on matchups you make changes as necessary.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, I hate to say
that is not a championship core.  I'm a huge bulls fan, but I'm also a realist.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Uh,
They've played together for only 2 1/2 seasons. You're neither a realist or Nostradamus.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But I am
Nastradamus's long distant relative, and predictive powers have been bestowed upon me.

by DannyRange on Jan 23, 2007 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

finally a grammar mistake from the king himself
its neither nor....not neither or...

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

they said the same thing about
Jordan, Pippen and Grant as late as Christmas '90.  Not that I think Hinrich, Gordon and Deng are that good, but that's why we are about to trade one of them.  If Hinrich and salary filler was all the Grizzles wanted for Gasol, then I'd say do it, but that's not the case.  And that wouldn't be nearly as good a trade for the Bulls as Deng and filler because it would open up another hole.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of League Pass
Just in case everyone doesn't already have it, NBA League Pass is free from 1/22 - 1/28 as part of a promo to get you to sign up for the $99 offer for the rest of the season. It's supposed to be on Dish & Direct TV as well as Comcast.
Ye OldeBull

by OldeBull on Jan 23, 2007 12:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Great tip^
Thanks
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 1:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If we need to move Ty...
...to get Gasol...We have to.

Ben Wallace, as great a player as he has been, is regressing.  In the next few years until his contract expires, the Bulls will be paying dearly for his services, and need to win now.

Thomas shows signs of being a great, highlight-reel type player, but not until he gets a few more years in the league.

Being able to start Gasol and Wallace, with PJ and Sweets coming off the bench would be a great experienced rotation come playoff time.  And if the Bulls do make the Eastern Conference or NBA Finals this year, Thomas' rookie mistakes could be fatal to the Bulls.

Ben Gordon = Trade Bait

by raalickeller on Jan 23, 2007 11:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Oops.
Forgot about the whole, "They'd probably trade PJ and Sweets" thing...

Still, Malik and Kryappa would be decent enough.

Ben Gordon = Trade Bait

by raalickeller on Jan 23, 2007 11:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How is a guy
logging 10.5 minutes a game going to make that kind of an impact?

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely
There's no guarantee that Thomas ever becomes as good as Gasol is now.  I'd hate to give him up, but we'll probably have to to get Gasol (unless you'd rather give up Deng).  This is Jerry West we're dealing with, not Isiah Thomas.

by Big D on Jan 23, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure...
Who you're talking about, as I don't have the stat sheets in front of me.

but Kryappa started a bunch of games last year, and in my own opinion, Allen was superb in last years finals whenever he was called upon.

Ben Gordon = Trade Bait

by raalickeller on Jan 23, 2007 11:56 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Allen
didn't play in the finals last year.  do you mean griffin?

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

THANK YOU.
Yes, I did.  And I'm apparently well stocked on stupid-pills today.

...yeesh.

Ben Gordon = Trade Bait

by raalickeller on Jan 23, 2007 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The "Do Nothing" Argument
The Bulls should pass on Gasol.  Most viable options I've seen, while thoughtful and tempting, have required the Bulls to mortgage their future.  I don't think any of the options mentioned would make it more likely that the Bulls could beat any of the top Western teams, so I don't think it is worth it.  The goal should always be a championship, not just getting to the finals.  A trade for Gasol wouldn't get the Bulls beyond what this team already has when it gets hot.  I agree this team could use an upgrade in the low post, but I'd be more willing to wait until this summer to do so.  They have cap space this summer, and it gives them flexibility to sign their own and other free agents.  Also, if the draft were today, they could draft someone  at #11, or trade up.  Patience gives them a better chance at winning the title in the years to come.

At most, I'm fine with a smaller trade, say Duhon for Melvin Ely or Joe Smith (and whatever salary fillers).  But this one doesn't get the Bulls far enough this year.

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Jan 23, 2007 12:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Melvin Ely has been on my mind as well,
but one of the extra forwards on the bench would be a better deal than losing guard depth, and the Bobcats have plenty of little guards.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 12:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Ely too . . .
But it seems like we already have a heftier version of him in Sweetney.  I suppose it makes sense if Skiles absolutely refuses to play Sweetney, but I'd like to see Sweetney get more of a chance before we trade for a similar player.

by Big D on Jan 23, 2007 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite
The bulls won't have enough money this summer to sign both our free agents and somebody who could make as much of an impact as Gasol.  Plus, those guys don't become free agents much anymore, and this will be the last summer that we can be players in free agency if we sign our guys.  So I think you are wrong there.  There's also no guarantee that picks develop, and if they do, it usually takes a long time.  The right trade for Gasol is worth it.  But I would agree with you that if the Grizzles want too much, Pax should stand pat and see what the draft brings.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the final summer
I was actually surprised when I double-checked the Bulls salary obligations for this summer. They could have some money available but it involves renouncing rights to half the team.

All that's signed for next year is

Hinrich/Duhon
Gordon/Thabo
Deng/Griffin
Thomas/Khryapa
Wallace

That's 9 players for almost $47m. And next year's cap will probably be around $57-$60m. You'd have to be very creative to use the rest for both an impact FA, the first-round pick, and other roster filler.

And Bullshooter's right, after this summer then you have to factor in expected extensions for Deng and Gordon.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

2 problems
  1. what good bigs are going to be on the market (none)
  2. I've shown in previous posts that the bulls keeping their current team (except for some of the spare parts) can resign everyone (with noch) and stay near the luxury tax line....if we're talking about adding any FA we're talking about losing one of the three fa's we have and or making uncle jerry pay 2X due to luxury tax

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

years to come
I disagree with this idea. Gasol is 26, and Hinrich/Deng/Gordon area all in their early-mid 20s. That's a squad that can be good for 'years to come', not getting another project in the draft (and nobody's trading down in this draft, according to draft nerds everywhere).

And while they wouldn't be as good as half the teams in the West, they'd be pretty good and maybe get lucky against a beat-up Western team in the finals (hey, it happened just last year).

With Wade, Lebron, and Howard primed to take over the East for  'years to come' I wouldn't say a chance at the Finals is a guarantee by just holding on to the current hand.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

draft
Nobody is going to trade down out of top spots in the 07 draft.  If you think you can get a superstar you aren't trading that away for a Bulls player and midround pick or future bulls pick

I used to be all for wating but the issue is that after season Brown's expiring contract is gone and they will need $s to pay their own free agents eventually

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 23, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Skiles doesn't like dumb ttrade ideas either
"What happens is you can go on a couple different sites and see if salaries add up, and just say, 'Hey, this might work,''' Skiles said.

''So then something gets thrown out there. Most of it has very little merit to it. "

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 12:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

damn him
Skiles totally is calling me out here :)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Look on the bright side . . .
Maybe he read this site, and finally realized that Chris Duhon sucks and decided to sit him out last night.

by Big D on Jan 23, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet
that's it. ;-)
Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 23, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

classic^ and...
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  For the right price (and I have to say all of Matt's trade scenarios fall under that heading) this Bulls team should add Gasol.  He is exactly what we are looking for and is only 26.5.  How can the Bulls hope to get something better than that.  He is a legit seven footer who can score.  
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I completely agree with this statement, but it has been proven that a bunch of talented rookies usually need a veteran force to make a difference.  The only way I can Jerry West giving up Gasol is if he truley believes that they cannot compete in the West for atleast four years.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's just saying that
so Pax can steal your idea.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pax talked trade checkers
During the half time interview on the radio last night.  It'll be up at Bulls.com in a day or two.   But he made the same point Skiles did, only in a nicer voice. :) (Man, I miss Pax on radio!).

The whole thing was about trades, what he considers when trade opportunities occurs, and he talks about Sam Smith Matt!  The main point he made is he's not about to do a trade to fill a whole if it just creates another problem.

by KT on Jan 23, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What I can see happening.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=99~2377~2175~3032~996~817&teams=29~29~ 29~29~4~4

I think Memphis would want a little more than Tyrus, cap relief (Sweets + Brown), + our pick, and maybe a 2nd.  So, we offer to take Damon's salary off there hands and give them a servicable point.  

I like this for the Bulls because we break up the Gordon, Kirk, & Duhon rotation.  This also gives us a little more scoring in the backcourt.  Also, it would let us rely less on Gordon when we cannot buy a bucket.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 1:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Damon Stoudamire
Didn't Damon say he liked the way the Bulls ran there sets last season?  I will try and find a link.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he did
and skiles was shocked that Damon noticed that.

by bullshooter on Jan 23, 2007 1:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Best I've seen.. BUT..
How will we be able to resign everyone (Noc, Deng & Gordon) and stay under the cap?
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 1:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

::groan::
Can people stop asking "how are we going to resign everyone?"

You can resign everyone if you want to.  There's no  hard cap. There's the luxury tax, and even if they get up to that level, if they're winning it won't matter.

And of course there's this answer: let Nocioni walk.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"let Noc Walk"
or trade him so that we can get something in return.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure of two things..
  1. Does Reinsdorf feel the same way?  I wouldn't bet on it. Of course I know, along with most people here, that there is no hard cap.  But, the luxury tax is a big deal, a very big deal.  And given that Reinsdork is no Dolan, I think your quick answer might not be warranted.
  2. Was that groan really necessary?
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Reinsdorf said
he'd pay a luxury tax if meant having a contender.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?...
that's good news I wasn't aware of.  When did he say this?
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 23, 2007 2:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Noce
If this trade was to go down, I would agree if there is a problem with money to let Noce go, but until that he can be a very valuable peice on this year's team.  

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we're not under the cap now
the real line is luxury tax....

as to the trade, we're dreaming if memphis is even courteous enough to slam down the phone as opposed to laughing and forgetting to hang it up...

for that trade to work we would need knicks pick, both 2nd rounders this year, 2009 first rounder, a bunch of 2nd rounders in the future....and hope to god memphis has a draft nerd who cna package that to isiah or someone for some decent 2nd rounders...

the truth:

we're going to either need to go to luxury tax hell or throw in a nice young asset to get away with the trade (duhon doesnt count...i love him but hes not a nice young asset)...im talking thabo tyrus (defentely krappy) maybe noch....

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like that deal too
Although if they ask for Noc I wouldn't hesitate.

Just seems like he'd be lost in the rotation anyway with Deng and Gasol providing the frontcourt offense and getting nearly all the minutes. Not to mention his impending Free Agency.

In this deal you keep Allen, Sweetney, and Khryapa, plus add Swift (subbing Cardinal for Swift works too). They seem more role-player types who wouldn't need the ball as much. But maybe Noc wouldn't mind getting buried for half a season knowing he could always leave in free agency if he wanted a bigger role.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Throwing Noce in
Im not crazy about Swift, but I would agree we that we would have to seriously think about taking that trade.  Plus, I always thought that getting Krap was insurance if Noce had to go.

One thing that I think is lost in all this trade talk is this team would miss Andres' 3 point shooting.  I would like to keep Noce for atleast one more year, hopefully more, until Deng extends his range.

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 2:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

best (meaning most likely)
trade i've seen so far

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

For all the things we're giving up for Gasol
Can we put an L on his name?
Deng, he's good!!!!!!!!!

by cubbybear on Jan 23, 2007 2:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thoughts on Gasol
Gasol would be that last piece the Bulls need to be a top tier team. As constructed right now, they are nice team that can win some games, and possibly a playoff series or too. I believe Gasol would put the Bulls right into the top tier by making this team consistent. His presence would open things up for a number of players on this team. Right now, Paxson has a number of young solid assests to trade coupled with a number of veterans with expiring contracts. He has alot to play with, without fully selling out the bulls future. Gasol is 26, and even with a fewer number of younger players, they still have enough to compete at a high level for years to come. Thats the key, at a high level for years to come, without Gasol I dont see the Bulls ever reaching that high level without Tyrus becoming a stud in a few years with is extremely risky.  

by moosejaw on Jan 23, 2007 2:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

He's Yours
I figured I would chime in on this whole debate since you guys are getting the Chicago view of this trade and I'm in Memphis. Unless Jerry West has lost every basketball skill he ever had (and I'm starting to wonder), the Bulls are going to have to pay a hefty price for Pau (btw, how do you spell Gasol in Spanish? It's five letters and it reminds some of what is on his face. He's going to be your lazy/ chain smoking problem now.) The speculation in Memphis is that the draft pick and Tyrus must be included. The above article was both right and extremely well written. The Grizz don't need to shed salary (we're losing $22 Mil off the books this summer alone) and remember, no matter who the 1st/ 2nd pick is, they don't make much for four years. That said, the Gordon/ Deng trade won't go down for money reasons alone. Both players are about to become free agents in the next two years and Memphis isn't going to want to take on that commitment (already enough overpriced B/C+ players making $8-$9 Mil/year). Remember one more thing, the Grizz after everything that has gone on here (including SERIOUS fan backlash) is going to make West hold the Bulls over the coals (especially after the Iverson move was never even discussed). The Grizz aren't going anywhere this season and it doesn't matter if we lose with a malcontent or just lose. West can wait, the Bulls, it seems, cannot. So, if you truly believe that Pau is the piece (and I don't, but that's up to you), then the trade is a go no matter what the draft pick is. But, the pick will have to be included. Also, I doubt if Nocioni is part of the package, either. It's going to have to be a shooter or a combo guard and probably not Ben Gordon.
Mahalo

by In Memphis on Jan 23, 2007 2:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The positive here
is that 'In Memphis' probably won't be commenting after this Gasol trade business is over. Gasol is a very good player, and if motivation is an issue playing for an organization that doesn't have patience with malcontents, and a fan base that actually shows up for games should correct it. I really don't see where a lame duck owner offers Jerry West more motivation to get all he can for Gasol. Isn't he doing that already? The Bulls aren't desperate, and Paxson isn't a gambler.

by Paxson Jackson on Jan 23, 2007 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Have U watched the Grizz?
Apparently not seeing as they made the playoffs the last three years and they were averaging 85% capacity during that time and he still couldn't help win a playoff game. Not only that, he's been back a month and is already demanding a trade. He didn't play hard before, although his stats are always pretty, and sure isn't doing it right now. Also, I said the fanbase is going to hold him over the coals. Heisley isn't running anyone out of town (until he buys the Cubbies). Just for you, I won't post anymore until you've had him for a 3-13, 7pt, 4 reb, 4 foul night in the Leastern Conference playoffs in a deciding game. Then, you'll love him I'm sure.
Mahalo

by In Memphis on Jan 24, 2007 8:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you In Memphis
I appreciate the Memphis perspective.  I did not know, and do not like that Gasol chain smokes.  I am assuming your information is not a joke but is accurate.  Again, thanks for joining us!
chgobr

by chgobr on Jan 23, 2007 7:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Toni
smoked and probably still does.  More common in European players than American ones.  (Toni also ate candy during the game.)

by KT on Jan 23, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope...
I've played foosball with the dude- freaking Gauloises like they were selloing them for 2 cents a pack. Maybe it was okay with Divac, but not Pau.
Mahalo

by In Memphis on Jan 24, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if pau does smoke
maybe we could get marlboro to give out free packs of ciggies when we score 100 points....it worked with Sweets and mcdonalds

by milesgmsu on Jan 24, 2007 9:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

One More Thing...
A good friend of mine and a hard core Grizz fan had the comment of the season (which is going into our next edition of The Press Magazine- a Sports Mag I publish)- "I am voting for Pau Gasol for the All-Star Weekend Dance Team." Just thought you should know what you're pining for.
Mahalo

by In Memphis on Jan 23, 2007 2:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure I trust the city of Memphis
to know what good basketball looks like anyway :-D

but I'm pining to the max.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 23, 2007 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Booooo.....
An unwarranted cheap shot from an obvious DePaul fan. ;-)
Mahalo

by In Memphis on Jan 24, 2007 8:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade
Where is Kevin with some good inside trade info when we need it?

by Jesse07 on Jan 23, 2007 3:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

in his mom's bastement
with a WoW marathon....but i forget...what was it that he called correctly....the jrsmith move?

by milesgmsu on Jan 23, 2007 5:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's busy
playing Magic the Gathering with Matt.
"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus on Jan 23, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The T-Wolves fired Dwane Casey today
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2740436

What do you guys think?  Have they figured out that they're going nowhere (and therefore might be open to trading Garnett), or are they just desperately doing anything to try to sneak into the playoffs?

by Big D on Jan 23, 2007 4:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

No problem
Hate to start another Garnett diary, but it's probably appropriate in this case.

by Big D on Jan 23, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

update
from espn:

Paxson neither confirmed nor denied interest in Memphis Grizzlies star forward Pau Gasol, who's been mentioned prominently in trade rumors.

According to a league source, the Bulls offered a package that includes guard Ben Gordon, forward P.J. Brown and a first round draft pick in return for Gasol, who has requested a trade. The source also said Brown would be included in any trade made before the deadline. -- Daily Southtown

I would jump at the opportunity for this trade. We lose BG and that leaves our backcourt a little thin, but i think we gain much more than we lose....

Only downside, and only reason i could see trading deng over gordon is a lack of scoring. It essentially just moves around the problem, depending upon Kirk to step up his scoring. If we trade deng, we still have a multitude of 3/4's who can score, but bG seems to be our one true 2 guard who can score...

But still, that's a trade I think we would all appreciate (clearly if it's true pax did)

by milesgmsu on Jan 24, 2007 7:20 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I Would not trade ben
For a scoring big.  He is too electric.  We need a guy who can create for himself off the dribble.  All great teams have this.  If we trade Ben, we lose that.  Unfortunately, Kirk is not that guy and neither is Luol right now.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 24, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

deng is likely
2 nights ago on the nba live show we get in the UK, one of the presenters had been talking to deng's agent and it seemed from what he said that both luol and his agent were preparing to move to memphis.

make of that what you will...

ben/luol are british, who knew?

by scottish on Jan 25, 2007 2:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

In what way?
did it seem they are preparing to move?  Did the agent say that?  or was it implied?  We need more here if this is a legitimate rumor.
The red and white

by Scott 9 on Jan 25, 2007 3:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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