Skiles and playing styles

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 12:02 AM CST in News

As I (and others) touched upon in the aftermath of the Houston game, it was curious that Skiles showed both flexibility and stubbornness in the 4th quarter.

With Ben Wallace not providing much throughout the game, Skiles benched him the entire 4th and went with Mike Sweetney, who played very well in his stint on the floor. Even when Sweetney's time was up, Skiles didn't go back to Wallace, instead going with the small lineup of Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon/Nocioni/Deng to finish the game. They were a collective -6 on the court though, and gave up some key offensive boards. But while it didn't work out, at least Skiles initially saw something wasn't working and changed it up.

Unfortunately Skiles couldn't make another bold decision: to switch up defenders on Tracy McGrady. To be fair he did switch once, as Luol Deng covered McGrady for most of the game until he was getting torched to start the 4th, and then Skiles put Kirk Hinrich on him. However as Deng proved to be too slow, Hinrich was too short, and was allowing McGrady to shoot over the top of him.

Like Sweetney, there was another little-used bench player who could've helped, one who is both taller than Hinrich and quicker than Deng, and that's Thabo Sefolosha. He's not a polished defender but just the athleticism and length could've bothered McGrady more than the Bulls starters did. And with a total of 2 points coming from the starting backcourt I think the potential sacrifice on offense would have been a minimal risk for the rest of the game.

I can't say that it would've worked, but I would have least liked to see it tried. Coupled with a DNP-CD for fellow rookie Tyrus Thomas, the inability to get Thabo in the game made it seem like Skiles was caving into Houston's style of VanGundy-ball, instead of using their youth and quickness to create an advantage. I understand not wanting rookies out there in the 4th, but with their offense being completely dismal up to that point and McGrady heating up, I think it was worth a try.

So recently the Bulls have acquired the label of 'not closing games', as they were ahead during the second half in their last 3 losses. I won't be worried yet, and instead call it a series of unfortunate events. And the 'closing' aspect is misguided, as any of the games could've been blown open at points, and especially in the case of the game against Houston it was more of them taking the win after the game remained close. For me it still comes down mostly to minutes distribution, and the best players still aren't getting the most time.

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Comments

Alrighty-then Lemony Snicket...

As someone who lives in Omaha, is busy and only has basic cable... I haven't been able to watch a whole game since the first of the year. I am very excited to finally be able to watch them and get my own critiques when they play New Jersey on TNT tomorrow night. I wish it was a better team, but maybe I'll get lucky and they'll come out with some real intensity and get some revenge.

Just wanted to share.

by tyger1147 on Jan 10, 2007 8:51 AM CST reply actions

NJN are not a bad team

they still have three amazing players in r-jeff, vc, and kidd; williams looks to be decent, havn't seen boone play, their 2nd round pick out of zona looked good, and kristic was an up and coming....they always take a while to get good...give em time

by milesgmsu on Jan 10, 2007 5:42 PM CST up reply actions

agreed

I would have liked to see Thabo on McGrady too. (I think he stubbornly gave his minutes to Griff). But I have a feeling that even the bizarro mixture of Bruce Bowen, Michael Cooper, Bill Russell and Scottie Pippen would not have stopped McGrady in the 4th.

Interesting thought as well about whether Van Gundy may have outcoached Skiles in the 3rd.

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Jan 10, 2007 9:16 AM CST reply actions

I think you're over

the T-Mac is soooo awesome quota. Although I do agree he was absolutely on fire and unstoppable at that point. Maybe a hard foul on Vince Carter's more talented kin would have done some good before the end of the Bulls/Rocks game?

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 9:28 AM CST up reply actions

hard foul

that probably would have been a good idea. the bulls should start using the hard foul technique without going overboard. T hey need to get more intimidating in situations like that. Nocioni is our man for that right?

by Sambossanova on Jan 10, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions

Better than the hard foul.

I have trick that is a little dirty, but effective way of stopping a guy who is as hot as Tracy was the other night. I have only pulled it out twice in my life, but even when I bring this up on the court to a guy who is hot, it will cool him down. It is very simple. Next time he shoots put your hand up in his face like you always do, but poke him in the eye. I know it is very cheap, but I guarentee it will cool off your hottest of shooters.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 3:10 PM CST up reply actions

I'm sure you've tested it on the best. ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 3:37 PM CST up reply actions

Tested

If your saying I never played against anyone in the NBA, you're right. I have played against plenty of pure scorers (mostly small D1 schools, MVC, or a couple went to the Big Ten). Regardless of who I have been "tested by", a shooter is a shooter and if you poke a shooter in the eye; it will stop him in a hurry.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

thats sad

Feel sorry for you if you would resort to that tatic and I hope the Bulls never would.

I've played a lot of basketball and don't believe it would be ever justified to poke someone in the eye. Fouling someone on purpose so they can't make a layup/dunk is one thing, but intentially injuring someone is not right

and for the record I did play against NBAer -Ricky Davis of the TWolves (went to same high school)

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 10, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

Sad but true

I said, "I had to pull it out twice." I admit it. We were getting torched in a regional game back in high school. The other time was in a game to get to the final four at ISU inturals. Both players cooled down, and we won both games.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 4:22 PM CST up reply actions

Disclaimer

First time was an accident, and it worked. Second time the guy was asking for it, and it worked. Now, talk about it and put the idea in their head, and it usually works.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 4:36 PM CST up reply actions

Andre Brown.

Andre Brown from Depaul is on a 10 day contract with the Seatle Supersonics, so I guess I have played against someone in the NBA.

by Jesse07 on Jan 16, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

poke in the eye

thats sort of dirty...hard foul is more acceptable in my book

by Sambossanova on Jan 10, 2007 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

More Accepted: True

But - If you make it look like a mistake and appologize afterwards, it won't get you tossed out of the game, but it will cool the player down.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 4:06 PM CST up reply actions

Problem solved

Poke Gil in the eyes tonight, boys!

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions

wouldn't work against T-Mac

he already looks like he's been poked in the eye a lot.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions

matt

very funny

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 4:37 PM CST up reply actions

Gilbert

We might have too. He is pretty dominant at home. Plus, he probably had this game circled on his calander when the schedule came out because of Kirk taking his spot on Team USA.

by Jesse07 on Jan 10, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions

sorry

I also thought that quota was up after Sue's ladylike "shitty night" comment on the last thread. anyway, point stands, Thabo would not have made a difference.

It could have been worse, I could have posted pictures of T-Mac's half-naked average-looking wife from their wedding this summer.

moving on, it will be interesting to see if Gilbert Arenas will be stopped by Thabo tonight, or will it be the hangover of his P-Diddy birthday party.

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Jan 10, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions

Sorry if

my comment yesterday offended you. It was how I felt at the moment.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 10, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions

your feeling was spot on

it was perfect, just like McGrady scoring 13 points in 35 seconds on Bowen and the Spurs to win the game.

heh.

I'm sick of my name, damn gwkd.

by GWKD on Jan 10, 2007 1:40 PM CST up reply actions

That was

just unconscious. Damn!

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 10, 2007 1:47 PM CST up reply actions

I love T-Mac...

I remember watching five years when he killed the Bucks when playing for Orlando, and thinking he could be the greatest player ever. He isn't great at defense, so "greatest offensive player" might have been better.

Injuries have killed him as he hasn't had the number of games, and he's not as "explosive" as he used to be... But yeah, when a 6'7" guy who can jump and dribble has such a great shot, he can go off anytime.

by tyger1147 on Jan 10, 2007 4:50 PM CST up reply actions

Looks like

Griff asked for more playing time so that's why he played him.

http://www.usatoday.com:80/sports/basketball/nba/bulls/notes.htm?csp=34

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 10, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions

Bulls Defense

"--The Bulls have held their last three opponents to sub-40 percent shooting, a sign that their defense is finally starting to come around."

Or they just switched to the old ball three games ago...

by bullshooter on Jan 10, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions

Duhon vs Thabo

Since Duhon doesn't seem to be adding much to offense (I actually think Griffin creates more shots for others but thats another story) I don't see why Skiles doesn't get more mins and even start Thabo over Duhon. I think its been obvious that tall guards torch the Bulls and I don't see what Bulls are waiting for. Bulls will make the playoffs in East for sure, so why not get Thabo playing time so that he gains confidence and the teams knows if or what they can expect from him come playoff time. If Thabo doesn't work out that well then at least Skiles knows and I don't see how 15-20 mins a game from him is going to cause them to lose. It seems the risk of Thabo over Duhon is worth taking it.

My 12 below, with Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Noc, Wallace getting starter mins

Hinrich/Duhon
Thabo/Gordon
Deng/Thomas/Griffin
Noc/Brown/Thomas/Allen
Wallace/Brown/Sweets

by NY Chicago Fan on Jan 10, 2007 9:34 AM CST reply actions

I didn't

understand not playing Thabo either. It certainly couldn't have hurt to try him on McGrady.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 10, 2007 9:34 AM CST reply actions

Thabo

has done fairly well against a lot of superstars this year including LeBron, Kobe, and Tmac. It made me furious that he woulnd't try it.

by Option27 on Jan 10, 2007 9:54 AM CST reply actions

Yeah

I think we all agree that coach Skiles should've put in Thabo, especially seeing what he's been able to do to Kobe.

But frankly, I've been getting really concerned and even pissed off at Skiles' coaching lately.
I know it's the players' faults for blowing leads- but when that happens Skiles needs to coach them out of that, and that hasn't happened in the 3 games the Bulls could've easily won.
Going for 2 when you need 3, and putting the ball in Kirk Hinrich's hands when you should be putting in Gordon's or Deng's- NOT WORKING.

by shorty Ali on Jan 10, 2007 9:56 AM CST reply actions

I don not understand

Skiles comments at the bottom of this article. The part about taking minutes away from other players. Hinrich and Duhon pretty much stunk up the place Monday night. What the hell would it have hurt to let Thabo take some of their minutes?

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070109bulls,1,870656.story?coll=c s-bulls-headlines

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Jan 10, 2007 10:04 AM CST reply actions

It's a pretty B-S statement.

They would take minutes from Noc and Deng? What a liar.

First, Deng is their best player. NO ONE would be taking minutes from him. If he's not in there, it's because he's legitimately resting. So if he's not in there, who's in there? Similarly, although not as extreme, is the case with Noc.

Sefo and Thomas would be taking minutes from Sweetney, Allen and Griffin. If he wants to say that these guys are doing too well or whatever, or he likes veterans, fine. Say it.

All he did was basically name two of the best players on the team so everyone would go, "Oh... yeah. I get it. You don't want to bench those guys for rookies. You're a smart coach." Instead of saying, "Well, I could have benched either Kirk or Duhon, but I like those guys too much. It's going to take a lot more than bad play for me to bench them."

Or better, "I messed up. I should have tried Thabo on TMac, but I was scared to put a rookie on one of the best scorers in the game in a crunch period... Even though that is why we drafted him. But anyway... I messed up. I should try that."

Either would work for me. Whatever. I love this team and the players and obviously am not ready to quit. But let's win something Skiles, before I'm ready to believe in him again.

by tyger1147 on Jan 10, 2007 10:42 AM CST up reply actions

ducking the question

You're right, Skiles just used Deng to generalize the question and say that you can't play everybody. That's a Dusty trick!

But he didn't answer why Thabo can't take minutes from Duhon and the suddenly over-'coddled' Hinrich. I would've even preferred him saying Thabo isn't disciplined enough defensively for the end of games, or some other reason that he would know better than I.

seems to me the best way not to coddle guys is to take minutes.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions

Thabo in the 4th quarter

He's played down the stretch before. There's a couple of games where we would have liked to see him more (Pho and Hou). He didn't look good in the 1st quarters of his 2 starts (well, he looked bad in one and ok in the other).

We've gone through this complaining about Skiles stuff before, myself included. I'm starting to really come around on the big picture here though. There's a lot of stuff we don't see, and we've improved throughout the year every season he's been here. Along with trusting Paxson, I want to trust Skiles also. We've seen the results before, and I expect to see them this time also.

by Moses Taylor on Jan 10, 2007 10:51 AM CST reply actions

As far as blaming Skiles for losses goes,

a coach's impact is minimal at best. It is annoying when it appears the Bulls have the players to handle matchups and situations on the floor, and Skiles opts to put things in the incapable hands of Chris Duhon or a not entirely healthy Kirk Hinrich. Ben Gordon and the rookies should be getting more time on the floor, and if it comes at the expense of Duhon and the increasingly ineffective Nocioni then so be it. I was also unhappy to meet Scott Skiles' inner Ditka in the paper this morning:

"With all of our guys we do too much talking, way too much talking," he said. "Too much coddling, too much [saying], `You are important to the team.' Too much of that ....

"Talking should be over. Step up and be competent pro players. If not, again, those are questions the guys have to answer."

That's just too much for me.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions

I don't know what he's talking about

Is there anyone outside of the rookies who are being treated as anything but 'competent pro players'? I agree with Skiles in that 'coddling' is unnecessary, but I don't get where it's coming from in the first place. From him? Pax?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jan 10, 2007 11:21 AM CST up reply actions

It could be a response to more

from the partners in whine, Peej and Veektor. I don't get why Skiles would respond to those guys in the media though. Brown missed last night's game because of personal issues or something like that, it could be player/coach feud'n.

I'd rather not have stupid quotes like that to interpret. Skiles should take a tip from the Ozzie Guillen handbook and name names when throwing players under the bus.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions

I am admittedly a huge Skiles fan, so I may be

biased, but I was actually heartened by his comments.

It does seem as if many of the Bulls' players are often caught in a sort of juvenile mode characterized by fear and nervousness. Their confidence and mental edge seems very tenous, almost as if they are the smallest kids on the playground, constantly verging on tears when the bully gets near.

To a certain extent, it is understandable, because the team is still young and has had limited success in the playoffs, which is the true crucible of NBA character. Still, I think Skiles wants his veterans to demonstrate some tenacity and killer instinct. I suppose this is his way of motivating them through the media.

Just my opinion, though.

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 10, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions

How much does Comcast

charge for ITD (inner thought definiton)?

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Jan 10, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions

Actually...

I bought the very last remaining pair of the Special Addition Jerry Krause Brass Scouting Spy Glasses, available on the concourse outside of Section 118. They are engraved with the motto "Organizations Win Championships"

The glasses tell you if a player has heart.

Just to be clear, these are the glasses Krause used before the 1987 draft, not the broken ones he used when scouting Sellers and Fizer.

Ok, really, the comments in my previous post were just my impressions based on watching the games. No science to it.

Ultimately, I just love this team. I really do, from Pax on down. I think Skiles is doing his best to win games and motivate his players.

by 1958ChiTown on Jan 10, 2007 1:53 PM CST up reply actions