Jackie Butler

by CookDing on Jul 13, 2006 9:01 AM CDT Comment 38 comments

I forget which poster it was, but this link is likely to make him/her cream.

It's doubtful it will happen (since the Knicks could match what little we can offer-unless we trade. shhhh, don't say any more, we don't want to jinx what little chance there is of that)....

No, really, we don't want to trade with the Knicks

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haha!

Meanwhile, the Bulls are monitoring the situation since they are looking for a low-post scorer.

That would be great if we could steal him at 1.5 / year.

Judging Isiah's personality, he would probably match anything we offer out of spite.

by CRG on Jul 11, 2006 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

if thats the case

offer him 1.5 just to make Isiah pay more

by NY Chicago Fan on Jul 11, 2006 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell

I'd go more than that and just have it decrease each year.

We'll be known as the thorn in everyone's paw.

by Colossus on Jul 11, 2006 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Butler

It would be great to get Butler. He'd be a perfect addition to the existing front line.

by preverbal on Jul 11, 2006 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: Butler

Hollinger loves Butler, but I take that with a slight grain of salt b/c he liked Sweetney as well. The "per minute" stats can be fools' gold.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 11, 2006 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In fairness to Hollinger, he does point out in his books that per minute stats don't necessarily mean as much for players who are out of shape (like Curry and Sweetney, and maybe Butler). Those guys obviously don't have the staminia to consistently play big minutes effectively.

by Big D on Jul 11, 2006 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

cautiously intrigued by Butler

But both he and Sweetney have high fouls per/48. That's another (big) factor in them not being able to stay on the floor.

by jamestkirk on Jul 11, 2006 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can the Knicks match?

according to hoopshype salary page, including their 2 first round picks, and discluding Shandon Anderson and Jerome Williams, they have 15 guys on the roster for next season. Does anyone know if they are still allowed to match an offer for Butler even though that would give them 16 players?

by micah on Jul 11, 2006 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Roster Limit

They can only have 15 players under contract.
They can,however, buy out an existing contract and release the player, thereby creating a roster spot.

Ye Olde Bull

by OldeBull on Jul 11, 2006 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

buyout

Man there are no great candidates for a buyout. I'm guessing it'll either be Jerome James or Malik Rose, I doubt Isaiah will want to buy out one of his expiring contracts (Tayolor and Jalen Rose), so signing Butler would technically cost a lot more to the Knicks than his own salary.

Actually...does Allan Houston count on the roster anymore? He did technically retire, so maybe they only have 14 spots officially taken.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 11, 2006 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about JYD?

Didn't he retire too?

by preverbal on Jul 11, 2006 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

JYD got trashed

They released him using the "Alan Houston Rule."

The whole thing was kind of ironic in that the Knicks didn't release Houston with the CBA provision that was named for him. Then again, these are the Knicks....

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 11, 2006 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rule

I understand most of the CBA except for the Allan Houston Rule. Can someone explain that to me please?

by milesgmsu on Jul 11, 2006 2:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

here....

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/07/more-on-nba-agreement-allan-houston.html

by Colossus on Jul 11, 2006 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

I would give him 2mil/year for 2 years with a mutual third year option. That is a minimal cost for possibly good backup FC once PJB leaves.

by cubbybear on Jul 11, 2006 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sounds good to me

Might be just rich enough for a normal team to let him go. But again, these are the Knicks.

by preverbal on Jul 11, 2006 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting sub-plot

Jackie and LB (and Skiles by the by) share the same agent... I'm just saying... the Isiah - Glass convo hasn't been the warmest lately...

by micah on Jul 11, 2006 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Worth a shot

If you look at the Hoops Hype link above to the Knicks salaries, I'm almost 100% sure that Jerome Williams, Allan Houston, and Shandon Anderson, while they count against the cap, do not take up roster spots. That leaves the Knicks with 14 spots. I think it would be worth a shot to make Butler an offer. The guy has some legit low post ability, plays hard from what I've seen, and is only 19.

by bigballa10 on Jul 11, 2006 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you want Jackie?

(photoshoped image from YAY Sports)

by CRG on Jul 11, 2006 5:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Butler

A definite upgrade over Schenscher. Luke's been terrible so far in the summer league. My man Drago looked pretty crappy today too. He's definitely a long way from making the NBA.

by Mike Aparicio on Jul 11, 2006 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

without a doubt

butler would represent an upgrade on our team. the only problem is, the Knicks are in the driver's seat. Unless we can offer more than they're allowed to, I don't see how we land him. I mean, they gave Jerome James 5 mill, what would possibly keep them from doing the same with Butler? And, I don't see how it could get to that point as Pax likely wouldn't want Butler for anything more than 2-3 mill a year.

by CookDing on Jul 12, 2006 8:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the Knicks payroll is massive

Doesn't that mean every dollar they spend over the luxury tax threshold is actually doubled - a million dollar contract is actually two? They already are paying a lot of money to 3 centers -- Curry, Jerome James, and Frye. There might be a point (we haven't seen it yet) where they finally say, "Stop the madness!" And if not...oh well, you just force them to pony up some more coin.

by jamestkirk on Jul 12, 2006 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yup

that's the crazy truth about the luxury tax. Even Dolan has to say 'hold on a minute' after a certain point.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2006 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

If it didn't stop at $80, $100, $125, or $130,000,000 why would it stop now?

IMO, this current Knicks regime just won't adhere to things that most people consider "sane." I just don't think we can say with any certainty that Dolan and Co. "WON'T" do something.

Anything is possible.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jul 12, 2006 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the only

crazy truth is that the knicks are still profitable. if he's making money (and lots of it), what does it really matter to him? i do think it's crazy to pay a jackie butler 6-8 mill, or whatever his post tax contract will add up to. however, Dolan will clearly do it. if that's what Isiah wants, that's what he'll get.

by CookDing on Jul 12, 2006 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, but...

Didn't Dolan put the brakes on Zeke? Didn't he say something like, "this is the team, now deal with it"? I thought I remember reading that somewhere. I think that's the reason they weren't active in any the FA talks, even concerning their mid-level. (Does every team get a mid-level?). If any of that is true, they might actually be closer to operating in the "sane" world than we think.

by jamestkirk on Jul 12, 2006 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Butler

has signed an offer sheet with the Spurs:

http://www.projectspurs.com/

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 12, 2006 11:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Too bad it doesn't say

for how much.

by Colossus on Jul 13, 2006 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

found it

Link:

With the NBA ending its free-agent moratorium, the Spurs also tried to address their biggest priority by extending offer sheets to two centers: Denver's Francisco Elson and New York's Jackie Butler. Because Elson and Butler are restricted free agents, their respective teams can keep them by matching the offers within seven days.

The Spurs divided their $5.2million midlevel exception between the two centers. Butler signed a three-year, $7 million offer sheet, while Elson received a two-year deal for close to $6million.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2006 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

dumbass

somebody would have given him 3 mill over three. hell, or 7 mill over two.

by CookDing on Jul 13, 2006 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

but maybe he wants to play for a contender.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2006 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

6 mil over 2

is what we should've offered him.

by preverbal on Jul 13, 2006 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then let's make him an offer

can't we still do that? He's only on their offer sheet, right?

by Colossus on Jul 13, 2006 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

Once you sign an offer sheet, you're off the market. The Knicks have 7 days to choose to match it or not.

by Big D on Jul 13, 2006 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

can't

I'm pretty sure that since he's signed the offer sheet, either the Knicks match or they don't. So Butler will be a Spur or a Knick.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 13, 2006 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I knew the Knicks had seven days

but I wasn't sure if you negotiate with other teams still.

Too bad we missed our chance.

by Colossus on Jul 13, 2006 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Playing Time

He'd get more PT on the Spurs than he would here (or on the Knicks, for that matter). The Spurs just lost Mohammad and Nesterovic, and they really need another big man.

by Big D on Jul 13, 2006 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs