Christmas in June... Larry out Isiah in

by micah on Jun 22, 2006 9:00 AM CDT

[From the Diaries. It truly is the gift that keeps on giving. Isiah could be a short-term boost over the dysfunctional chemistry that Brown had with that bunch. He'll at least let them run and gun, which won't get them to the playoffs but maybe enough wins to keep from getting another top10 pick. -Matt]

It's official... Larry is done in NY. I have to imagine this is in our best interest... I mean having a guy who hasn't done anything exceptionally well in a basketball sense since retiring as a player (aside from drafting pretty well) take over another primary aspect of an already fledgling franchise seems like a great move to me. Remember when Isiah took over for Bird in Indiana he produced a team that went way under expectations after getting to the finals the year before. At any rate... at least Ivinston300 and the rest of us have another reason to tune into Knicks games on League Pass...

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This could be really good

I predict a fresh start for them in the fall, maybe a 10-5 start and everyone around the team will rejoice and say how much better Isiah is, etc, etc. THEN, the wheels will fall off in a much stronger Eastern Conference.

Just off the top of my head, how will they possibly be better than the Heat, Pistons, Cavs, Bulls, Pacers, Bucks, Nets, or Wizards? They won't - and that's the 8 playoff teams already. Then add the wildcards to the mix like Orlando, Toronto(both of which could be the most improved), Philly, Boston, even Charlotte and I just can't see how they don't finish with one of the 3 worst records in the East.

2007 Lottery here we come!

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jun 22, 2006 9:42 AM CDT reply actions

So

Since Brown was fired, does that mean he isn't allowed to coach anywhere for four years (the amount remaining on his deal)?

I read that somewhere and always wondered about it.

by Colossus @ Blog a Bull on Jun 22, 2006 10:33 AM CDT reply actions

Brown's contract

That can't be answered here. It depends on the contract language. A contract of this magnitude should have included provisions which spell out what can and can't be done in the event of termination.
It sounds like he's guaranteed his money but it may be that the contract does not stipulate that he can't be given different duties.
ie) The Knicks could remove him as the coach but assign him to other duties. In that case he would not be able to hold any other position with another team without negotiating a buyout.

I read that the Knicks have asked the league to establish what is a reasonable buyout figure.

Ye Olde Bull

by OldeBull on Jun 22, 2006 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions

they Buy him out?

The Bobcats want him.

by joejoeEnglish94bulls4ever on Jun 22, 2006 11:01 AM CDT reply actions

I just read this

on si.com.

by sue369 on Jun 22, 2006 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions

ESPN's article

ESPN is reporting that no finacial settlement has been reached.

Interestingly, the aricle goes on to say that:

...a clause in Brown's contract designates NBA commissioner David Stern as the arbitrator of any financial dispute between the sides, meaning the final chapter of this drama has yet to play out.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jun 22, 2006 11:17 AM CDT reply actions

I

think Cuban should be brought on to work with Stern.

by Colossus @ Blog a Bull on Jun 22, 2006 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions

I have a confession to make about the NY Knicks

[This is a Diary from earlier this morning by lwinston300. Pretty good premonition considering that a couple hours later Brown was fired. Thought I'd merge it (albeit in a hamfisted way) with this Knicks thread for brevity's sake. Lets pile on the Knicks all at once, right? -Matt]

There may be some that realized they didn't like the New York Knicks' because of the post Jordan days, but for me, it started with the Eddy Curry Trade. Knowing we had their 06 and 07 pick (ok we don't HAVE 07, but what Bulls fan do you know will say we don't?) has turned me into a die hard anti-fan. I have the NBA League pass and I know for a fact that I've watched New York this past season the second most of any team (Bulls being #1 ) I have never taken so much excitement in watching someone loose until now. I almost wish I lived in New York, that way I could have front row seats to the Brown-Thomas-Dolan verbal argument (or non-verbal if you think about it)

Just to open up discussion on a new topic (because my head hurts thinking about the Draft) would you want Larry Brown to come back to the Knickerbockers? Perhaps give Isiah Thomas the head coaching position for his brilliant idea to put the leagues most overpaid and selfish athletes together?

Would they loose more with Brown or with Thomas?

Honestly I do want to see them get better... just not better then us (Bulls)

Did Larry push it too far by openly considering his players?

Is Isiah and Dolan being somewhat of a bass whole?

I really feel bad for Larry. There was a time when he was on the Pistons and I could really care less about what he brought to the NBA. When the Pistons got rid of him I felt that he must not have been that good of a coach. Considering he did have a Championship team put together, but regardless of that matter. Here is a man that has come to his boss and simply asked do I still have my job? And his reply was I have a plane to catch talk to my assistant and see if I singed your paycheck.... Ok that wasn't his reply but if I was in Brown shoes, that's sure how I would interpret the silence.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 22, 2006 1:47 PM CDT reply actions

Thomas as Coach

I'm not so sure that we are better off with Thomas as coach. Brown seemed to go out of his way last year to make some of his players look bad. He was looking to overhaul the team and was unconcerned about immediate results. In fact a case could be made that he wanted the team to do badly to force the overhaul.

Thomas will play a more upbeat offense, which his roster is better suited to play. The Knicks have talent it's just that last year Brown was forcing them to play a game they were poorly suited to play.
With Thomas as coach they could very well win 30-35 games, which will keep them in the lottery but make it unlikely we will pick before 8th or 9th.

Ye Olde Bull

by OldeBull on Jun 22, 2006 1:57 PM CDT reply actions

yup

That's what I added at the top of this post, I feel that Isaiah will open the game up and they will win more games but miss the playoffs.

One thing it does prevent though is Larry forcing Isaiah to make some deals to get role players. They will still have a dysfunctional ballhogging no-defense roster. But I think we are ahead of ourselves by thinking this will guarantee another top-5 selection.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jun 22, 2006 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions

yup2

Knicks easily get 25+ wins. Brown's problem was that he could not properly motivate his players and tailor their skills to play according to his plan. He was too rigid and a prima donna. Also the players he has are all ballers, so Isiah-Shady-Shiester probably has better skills to get them to play like a team.

by CRG on Jun 22, 2006 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Easily?

Not so fast. Look at his career coaching record. He's not exactly Phil Jackson.

Those Indiana teams he had were loaded with talent. The 2001 team had a core of Miller, O'Neal, Rose (as a 6th man), Harrington, Travis Best, Foster, and Sam Perkins. The following year is when they subtracted Rose for Artest & Miller, AND even got 78 games out of "Mr Glass" himself: Jonathan Bender. His record after 2 years? 83-81.

This Knicks team he's got is way slower, older, and less athletic then those Indy teams. Does this mean we should start printing Oden jerseys? Of course not. I still think it's a stretch to say the Knicks are NOT one of the 5 worst teams in the NBA.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jun 22, 2006 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Thomas' coaching record

Yeah I agree Thomas sucks, but I'm not sure the team he has now is less athletic nor older. Plus there is even less defense played nowadays which benefits a team full of wings like NYK. On top of that you know all the ballers are going to have motivation to prove LB wrong. Considering they won 23 games last year as a bad team under horrible conditions, I think getting 25-30 wins looks pretty doable.

by CRG on Jun 23, 2006 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions

25 wins would be great....

...Look at where 25 wins ranks over the previous 5 seasons:

05-06: 27 out of 30
04-05: 26 out of 30
03-04: 26 out of 29
02-03: 25 out of 29
01-02: 25 our of 29

If next year is anything like the previous 5 in the NBA, 25 wins = the 3rd or 4th worst record in the league.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Jun 23, 2006 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Easily?

slow down...the roster is still the roster...

Dalibor and Dragan!
Like Pizza? Me too.

by FAQ on Jun 22, 2006 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions

My prediction

I can see Isiah getting shit-canned early in the season and miraculously landing a GM job with another franchise, only to pull off another one-sided trade with the Bulls to further our goal of getting back to the Finals. (Just before getting shit-canned again.) ;)

by Mike Aparicio on Jun 22, 2006 5:23 PM CDT reply actions

isiah

I'm definitely watching the knicks this year, and I don't think I'll feel badly about "rubber-necking" on this one. Isiah coaching the knicks is kinda like finding money on the street.

by dcarioca on Jun 22, 2006 9:51 PM CDT reply actions

isaiah

is like the plague...the longer he's employed in new york, the longer the knicks will be the bottom feeders of the nba, and i couldnt be happier

by MarcGldstn on Jun 22, 2006 11:23 PM CDT reply actions

not convinced

i'm not convinced isaiah will improve much, if at all, over last season's win total. i agree that teams of wings can do damage but only if they have somebody to distribute the ball and the knicks do not. on top of that, unlike thomas's pacer squad, this team does not have transcedent talents. their top talents are a few undersized guards whose best years are behind them. on top of all that, being GM and coach is an untenable situation. i don't believe the impact of it can be understated. first of all, who has the time to do both (even the best of GM's and/or coaches would struggle to find it)? secondly, what about the team dynamic? players, especially the kind the Knicks have stockpiled, have a difficult enough time responding to coaches, but having to respond to the GM too, at the same time! that's a recipe for disaster. especially if that coach is Isaiah.
this will not end well for the Knicks and, IMO, i'd be surprised if they are not bottom five in the league next year.

by CookDing on Jun 23, 2006 7:14 AM CDT reply actions

roster

This is the current Knicks roster below, which will obviously change some come next season. There are a lot of good players on that team. I just ask myself, can the chemistry and Isaiah be that bad to negate it for another season?

Jackie Butler FC 6-10 260
Jamal Crawford SG 6-5 190
Eddy Curry C 6-11 285
Steve Francis PG 6-3 200
Channing Frye FC 6-11
Jerome James C 7-1 272
David Lee F 6-9 235
Stephon Marbury PG 6-2 205
Quentin Richardson GF 6-6 230
Nate Robinson G 5-9 180
Jalen Rose GF 6-8 225
Malik Rose F 6-7 255
Maurice Taylor PF 6-9 265
Ime Udoka SF 6-6 215
Qyntel Woods GF 6-8 221

by GWKD on Jun 23, 2006 3:09 PM CDT reply actions

The Knicks will lead the league in one category...

players who first names begin with the letter Q!

I love Grant Park in June!! Been there six times!!!

by james@lifeinthecell on Jun 23, 2006 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions

I

wonder what it would take to get Channing Frye.

by Colossus @ Blog a Bull on Jun 23, 2006 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Forget Frye

I watch lots of knick games and the player who looks good is David Lee. Is there anyway we can trade for him. He is probably as good as whatever big we can get with that 16th pick. He really didnt get pushed around much and he rebounded well and was a good finisher. He surprised me with some good moves somtimes too. Lets get him not Frye.

by Sambossanova on Jun 24, 2006 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions

talent

The talent on their roster is a mirage. The guards all love pounding the ball -- masters of the meaningless speed dribble. There's about 10 "me" players, and 2 team players. This is NOT a good roster.

by jamestkirk on Jun 23, 2006 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions