ScottSkiles:ChrisDuhon :: DustyBaker:NeifiPerez?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 4, 2006 4:18 PM CST in News

Friday night's game against the Kings reminded me of how much I hate it when Chris Duhon plays so much. 29 minutes last night, which is the stat of the game. Duhon, who's one defined offensive skill is the supposed 'true' point guard ability, committed two turnovers in the final minute and gave away the game. But his high minute count is a bad sign not only because of what he did while he was on the court, but if he's out there that much you know something went wrong with the other guards.

And sure enough, the guards did not play well, and the stats indicate they weren't aggressive (forgive me for going superficial box-score on you, I was watching in a bar and it was tough to get a 'feel'). Hinrich got to the line plenty, but only had 8 FGA, Gordon had 7 and only attempted one foul shot. Thabo went nearly 13 minutes without scoring a point.

So Skiles did what he's been known to do: give more minutes to Duhon. Not really a reach to say it ultimately cost them the game, especially in the final possession where the best shooter and clutch performer on the team was still on the bench, while Duhon tried to dribble past Ron Artest (with predictable results).

One encouraging sign (outside of a great game by Luol Deng) was that the suffocating defense was back, but that last possession pointed out the persistent worry on this squad: who is 'the man'? For those who believe the Bulls can win without an offensive star, games like that prove otherwise. Sure they shouldn't have even needed to make a basket on the final possession, but they needed it, and there was nobody out there I felt confident in. In those situations, I don't care how bad Gordon's night was: it's his time.

All that aside, if you believe that Skiles needs to go based on these player substitutions, that's a pretty embarrassing opinion to have. Especially after 3 games, there will be a lot of fluctuation in playing time. What needs to be done is not for Skiles to give players the most minutes to 'set a rotation', but for the Ben Gordon (among others) to set himself apart and prove that he should get them. Now...if only Thabo can do the same and wrestle minutes from Chris Duhon.

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Well said...

I've long held that "set rotations" should be organic. Minutes should be earned, and players like Gordon need to step up with some consistency and aggression.

"But I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep..."

by Jimslam on Nov 4, 2006 4:57 PM CST reply actions

Sefolosha

or Veektor would have been far better choices to inbound the ball instead of Du-Du (they can actually see above other players' heads). That said, hopefully Skiles doesn't do the same thing in future inbounding situations.

I agree with the Baker/Perez analogy, although Ben Gordon is quite the upgrade over Duhon compared to Cedeno over Perez.

I'll get my Skiles rippage in now, because this should be one of the few times that it's possible, but the guy really needs to loosen the reigns on offense. Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, and Nocioni have been in the NBA long enough (playing together mind you) that perhaps just playing basketball -at certain times- could yield some more points. The Bulls have nice offensive sets, but the league may have caught on. It makes me sick to bring up the past, but Phil Jackson had the sack to scrap the triangle when it wasn't working.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Nov 4, 2006 4:59 PM CST reply actions

yes sir

you are right on about Skiles and him being so up tight. They need freedom. Viktor should get more minutes and Thomas as well. We'll see on monday!

Bulls fan till death

by saalikjazz on Nov 5, 2006 12:09 AM CST up reply actions

Noc needed to play more

he only clocked 20 minutes bc Deng and was in for 43.

Seems like Noc taking some of Brown's minutes would have been a better way to go.

"all the girls loved BJ." -sue369

by Colossus @ Blog a Bull on Nov 4, 2006 5:25 PM CST reply actions

3 games in

and people are already trying to get a new coach because we lost one close game to a decent team? wow.

NU 21 Iowa 7

by bullshooter on Nov 4, 2006 6:34 PM CST reply actions

Gordon

Oooh, ouch Bullshoter. Sue's not going to like that.

For what it's worth, I think every fan within earshot muttered something about "where's Gordon" when they set up for the last possession. Even if he's had a lousy game, he should be on the floor. Even if you don't want to run the play for him, he'd still scare the opponent.

As far as Ben and Kirk's aggressiveness, they were in foul trouble. Every time Kirk came back in, he picked up another foul. I think he was aggressive enough, but Gordon was just off.

I would not call the Kings a decent team. They really just have two players. I don't think there's any way they're making the playoffs starting Kevin Martin and Kenny Thomas.

Deng 4 MVP, 2008!

by corey williams corey benjamin on Nov 4, 2006 6:46 PM CST up reply actions

NU

played the better game today.

Go Hawkeyes.....Beat Wisconsin!!!

by sue369 on Nov 4, 2006 6:50 PM CST up reply actions

What?

Kevin Martin's a good player. His shot looks ugly, but it goes in an awful lot. I wouldn't be surprised if he led them in scoring this year.

by Big D on Nov 4, 2006 8:24 PM CST up reply actions

Kings will be good

Bibby is good, and artest is one of the best players in the league. Kevin Martin always seems to be good, or maybe thats because he's a Bulls Killer. Finally, Brad MIller is a nice solid big man that presents mismatch problems, and shareef is a decent player. If they are lucky enough to get douby heating up, things could be good in sacto. I predict a 6th seed for the Kings as long as nothing implodes

by milesgmsu on Nov 5, 2006 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

agreed

but im also a little pissed with Skiles. He should be playing our main guys in those situations. I had Washington flashbacks over and over again that night. I know ben struggled but so did duhon, no need to play favorites when were trying to win a game

by Option27 on Nov 5, 2006 9:39 AM CST up reply actions

Relax

To all those wanting to launch Skiles for his prickly personality and strange substitution patterns: wake up, there are no perfect coaches. If you haven't noticed, most are egomaniacal control freaks. Those on the other end of the spectrum, the "players' coach," usually leave with shoe prints on their back.

Skiles walks a fine line. He's intense and the atmosphere he creates is white hot, but his teams seem up to the challenge. Now, does his personality limit who Pax can bring in? Sure. But unless you have one of those rare breads - a coach who's loose and flexible yet able to maintain the players' respect - the Bulls are wise to steer clear of the league's uber-talented riffraff. Screw J.R. Smith and Tim Thomas.

As for the Duhon/Rotation issue: the Bulls are a very deep team with a lot of new and young faces, so it's going to take a while to work out the kinks and find all the right combinations. Relax, folks. We're all hoping Sefolosha steps up and commands 20-25 minutes per night, and he probably will, but this was the only the 3rd game of his career, and he didn't play particularly well. Until he earns those minutes, however, Duhon's going see plenty of floor time. It's not like he's dog sh*t or something. He's a good player, just not exceptional.

Duhon trying to make the play of the game...wrong. Duhon getting 15-20 minutes a game...fine with me.

by jamestkirk on Nov 4, 2006 9:01 PM CST reply actions

Even Pax

admits that the Bulls still have holes. I would argue that the biggest deficiency is at 2-where Gordon plays. I think that deficiency causes dislocations to ripple through all the other positions. However, that still doesn't excuse Duhon being selected to inbound the ball at the end of the game. I think we'er going to be right around 500 until Thabo and Thomas get more comfortable, like around February.

by hlac on Nov 4, 2006 9:07 PM CST reply actions

thabo and tyrus?

God I hope we're not relying on rookies to change the course of the team. I think we'll be a solid 5 - 10 games above 500 by february. I don't think we'll have an amazing reg season...I predict 49 or 50 wins, but we're a team built for the postseason. Get homecourt first round, and I think we could go far.

by milesgmsu on Nov 5, 2006 9:22 AM CST up reply actions

That's kind of funny...

Matt, and everyone else, pretty much says the opposite. The Bulls are a team built for the regular season (their intensity and depth (supposedly) keep them from playing down to a team's ability-basically, over the regular season, they don't have off nights) but that they aren't built for the post-season (they don't have a true scorer in a "go to" situation, if they have an off shooting night, they are in trouble).

Anyway, I'm don't necessarily agree with you or disagree with you (I'm not sure, really). I just think it's interesting how everyone says pretty much the opposite of what you did.

by tyger1147 on Nov 5, 2006 11:37 AM CST up reply actions

i think you are forgetting

that Duhon went to Duke, he's a winner

by fireskiles on Nov 4, 2006 9:19 PM CST reply actions

Is that

a backhanded comment? I couldn't tell. Shouldn't you be writing 3000 words on Mike Sweeney's arthritis medication?

You are aware the Bulls roster contains quite a few 'winners'? Whatever Du-Du has that Skiles is in love with (or it could be whatever Ben Gordon doesn't have... but that's another discussion entirely), has nothing to do with a cliche sportswriters like to gush about, and bloggers like to complain about.

Have you registered the dot-com yet? There has to be another place to post your (lack of) thoughts on Scott Skiles.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Nov 4, 2006 9:40 PM CST up reply actions

Pax plays winners

Hinrich: 2 Final fours, 1 nat champ
Gordon; Nat'l champ
Deng; Final Four
Wallace; Champ, 2 finals appearances
Noch; gold medals in wc's
duhon; at least one final four...was he there with
battier?
AG; finals appearance
krappy; he played with portland...haha
t-thomas; natl finals

by milesgmsu on Nov 5, 2006 9:26 AM CST up reply actions

While I get your point,

Hinrich doesn't have a national championship. KU played in the finals the year that Carmelo's Syracuse team won it all. Jayhawks went deep in the tournament every year Kirk was there, but no championships.

(I can't forget the agony of dying a slow death on my living room floor in those final dismal tenths of seconds, watching that desperation 3 blocked away, as all my friends wondered why I was losing it so bad over a "silly basketball game." Needless to say, they didn't and still don't bleed Jayhawk blue.)

by wjb1492 on Nov 6, 2006 10:28 AM CST up reply actions

Gordon was benched

If you watch closely, the last time Gordon was in the game he was guarding Martin on an inbounds play and lazily let him go straight to the basket for an uncontested layup. Ben was immediately taken out and never saw the light of day. I totally agree with Skiles on this. Gordon just h/as to wakeup and play with intensity the every second he is in there. If a loss is the result so be it.

by joemoses on Nov 4, 2006 10:42 PM CST reply actions

Excellant observation

and that mistake ripples through the rest of the Bull's defense.

by hlac on Nov 4, 2006 11:39 PM CST up reply actions

Gordon was M.I.A. all night

I think Skiles was correct in having Duhon in there during the last 7 minutes of the 4th quarter - but not on the last possession. I 100% would have had Gordon on the floor for the final shot - even if it was only for a decoy. Sadly, the Bulls appeared to shift into a "prevent defense" in the 4th. Instead of going for the win, they tried not to lose.

Gordon coasted through the entire game as he looked like his focus was clearly elsewhere. He took all of 7 shots last night - 5 of them in the first quarter. What was he doing the other 3 quarters? 2 FGA the rest of the game? We all know that if Gordon isn't scoring, he's not bringing a ton more to the table. It's not like he was using all his energy on defense and shutting down Kevin Martin.

I agree, Matt, that Gordon is the Bulls' "closer" and most "clutch" player. But, IMO, even the most ardent Gordon supporters would have trouble saying he deserved to play more minutes in the 4th quarter after he floated through in the previous 3.

In Pax we Trust!

by Jobu on Nov 5, 2006 12:34 AM CST reply actions

Half @$$ed Ben

I never watched the orlando game, but i did notice this in both the miami game and the sacramento game...Gordon seemed to be playing half - @$$ed (yes im censoring it). In the miami game if you watch him shoot his threes, he doesnt take a jump shot, but a mini hop, barely off the floor, shot. And i saw some of that in the sacramento game. My friend discussed that putting a player like gordon on the bench the whole game cannot be just because said player is missing shots. There must be some more REAL reason to gordon's benching. I mean skiles let hinrich play in the miami game, and hinrich was missing everything he threw up (a quite alot of shots) in the first quarter, but skiles didnt bench him for any of that, let him get hot. Maybe somethings going on with gordon and skiles hoped it wouldnt affect him during the game but it did leaving skiles no choice. ALSO was that last bulls play drawn out for duhon (a question my friend had asked)? Sure duhon is a better shooter than hinrich (at times) but, would skiles draw out a play for duhon, or did duhon just run with the ball? Someone made a statement about the bulls not having that one player who takes complete control. This is indeed true. Gordon might be the only guy who WANTS that ball in a tight situation, nay, i think noch is another one, except though i believe hes consistent i dont think he is (or as much of) a clutch player like gordon.

THe worst thing about this loss to the kings is that its completely taking away from the bulls destroying miami. I mean when the bulls lost to the magic, there were a bunch of excuses (that really shouldnt matter) that would allow the bulls to ignore the loss (i.e. back to back game, hinrich sick, players bruised tired and injured, jet lag) however, with this sacramento loss, miami fans can proclaim that the bulls arent really as good as they were during the opener, it was just miami was having an attrocious day. As a bulls fan, i cannot allow that to happen, however if the bulls dont win thier next game and start winning more frequently, well then it will be like that miami win never occured, it will be a fluke, and the bulls will lose all that respect that gained from that one single game alone. Cmon bulls, show those horns!

im trying hard to become the next kirk hinrich, therefore im doing nothing more than being the next chris duhon.

by piccolomair on Nov 5, 2006 2:52 AM CST reply actions

duhon

duhon is not the reason that the bulls lost that game. where went the huge lead we had in the majority of the second half. gordon is so inconsistent. i understand that you cant be on every single night with 20 plus points but the defensive end should be on every night. the question is who can gordon actually gaurd. hinrichs points if low are mostly due to him covering the better of the two gaurds. we should not be in a situation that depends so much on a inbound pass or a score in six seconds left when we had a ten plus lead the majority of the game. and is it just me or is nocioni not driving in as much anymore