Ty2 Potential?

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 2:04 PM CST

Potential

Unrealized expectations seems to have led to some kind of community wide
delusions by many. Even Ty2 doesn't like to use the dreaded word

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/thomas_feature_060907.html

But is that enough to eclipse him from this NBA labeling
....

To quote Da Coach, as California Al mentioned in another post..

"One word you never hear used about the great ones is potential".

Now a quote from "In Paxs you trust"

"A lot of chatter out there was about picking an `NBA-ready' guy,
Bulls GM John Paxson says. At another time, in another place,
maybe that's a consideration. But when you are drafting No. 2,
with a clear shot at far and away the best talent in the Draft,
you don't pass on him. Not now and not ever.

Is Pax's speaking on Potential?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20060629/ai_n16519820

Stop the excuses about Ty2, don't say the "p" word again.

Play with a broken nose, stop blaming posey, Skiles cut some air
holes in the mask?

anyone remember pistons & rodman beating up on jordon and pippen before
the two got tougher...

Will this pick be on equal to a another horace grant?

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Comments

does anyone care what Ditka says anymore?

So you're arguing the use of 'potential' as a matter of semantics?

Tyrus is young and is not as good as he likely eventually will be. So he has 'potential' to be better. What's wrong with that?

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 2:14 PM CST reply actions

Yes!

And excuses don't win champsionships... How many years are needed to prove this 'potential' issue a success?

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 2:20 PM CST up reply actions

that's something worth research, not cliche

And I can tell you this much: the answer to "how many years before it can be determined whether a 19 year old NBA player is a 'success'" isn't: 'none'.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 2:25 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed!

Let's say Ty2 develops similiar to J. O'Neal and becomes a player with
similiar offensive skills, maybe better defense. If this proves out,
then one might say "wow" that was a good pick.. "if he is not traded..
like J. O'Neal and the Bulls keep him, unlike Curry, Ty1, Crawford, etc. "

So we are looking at maybe 5 years or so, a 24 year old Ty2.. (barring injury)??

NBA teams, mgmt, players change so much in five years.

I remember the young O'Neal just sitting on
the bench, rarely entering a NBA game, but this allowed him to develop without the forced pressure being only 19 years old.

Therefore Ty2 addition doesn't seem to do much for winning this year, next year or
2 years from now? when the Bulls are in dire need of a good 2 guard now.

But, in five years, when Ty2 is "hopefully" useful,
then maybe just in time to a start a "new" rebuilding program
centered around Ty2. Ty2 then leads the Bulls to NBA championships in 2013 & 2014.
Or another case scenario?

In 3 years, Ty2 will be 22 year old, at 6'8" dominating the NBA!
At what position 3 or 4? scorer or defensive specialist? maybe the next "T.McGrady?"
or "Kobe" or "Howard", if he grows taller?
So many unknowns? So much "p"? Curry, and Tyson still have so much "p", but not
on the Bull's any longer.. So much for semantics, but the "p" word has exhausted its welcome
.....

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 3:40 PM CST up reply actions

Although I informed

Matt I wouldn't be posting anymore (the Malachi Ritscher situation has been upsetting to many people) - I have to add that someone should "p" on this diary.

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Nov 14, 2006 3:55 PM CST up reply actions

it's still good to know

you're at least still reading.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 3:59 PM CST up reply actions

Huh?

Anyone want to clue me in?

by tofferr on Nov 14, 2006 6:32 PM CST up reply actions

I see your point (I think)

"Therefore Ty2 addition doesn't seem to do much for winning this year, next year or 2 years from now? when the Bulls are in dire need of a good 2 guard now."

OK, that part I get. But that doesn't mean you don't draft someone with the 'potential' to be great. If they thought Brandon Roy would immediately be a championship-level 2-guard then they would've likely drafted him.

And whether or not Ty2 reaches his full potential in the next couple of years doesn't mean he can't also contribute to winning. But his potential also means he can be traded for a high price, moreso than someone without it.

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 4:23 PM CST up reply actions

Yes

It seems Paxs will probably be the GM for at least 10 years or better and will maintain a winning tradition, based on his draft actions. He knows that it is still possible he will make a good trade to elevate the current team in the areas of most need (2 guard? or low post scorer?).
But Pax, just doesn't let people really know what he is thinking, so everything is a guessing game....
So, he is a public figure, paid to perform and subject to criticism as well as praise.. just like all NBA players, coaches, GM, etc..
"Building "assets" like a businessman. What's more important selling tickets or winning champsionships. That really is up to the owner and his management team?
Rodman, really was not a bad guy for adding spice to the situation, and milesgmu I think Rodman was much better for the Bulls that Grant... My apology for the broken subject jumping and broken engish..

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 4:48 PM CST up reply actions

So, you don't like the fact that

Pax doesn't tell everyone his GM & draft strategies? Brian Colangelo, is that you??

by Rodmaniac on Nov 14, 2006 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

Who the F is this guy

you're typing in broken english....like a bad translation, and trust me I know something about bad english.

Secondly, horace grant helped the bulls to 3 championships; if we could only be guaranteed a horace grant I would have made the pick

by milesgmsu on Nov 14, 2006 3:43 PM CST reply actions

don't worry

we should ALL know something about Bad English ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 3:57 PM CST up reply actions

milesgmsu

Its seems you understand everything I wrote, broken and all, but only can resort to trivial response. I am not intimidated by you or any english critics on a blogging site. milesgmsu.. you have no argument. Furthermore, your horace grant comments show you might know "bad english", but your basketball knowledge is in question? I imagine that you were the only one watching grant play in the 4th qtr during critical games while he was with the Bulls. milesgmsu..why was he let go to orlando without any hesitation?

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 4:12 PM CST up reply actions

What?

Horace Grant was not "let go without any hesitation." The Bulls tried desperately to resign him in 1994. If I remember correctly, Jerry Reinsdorf even called a big press conference to accuse Horace of reneging on a supposed contract agreement. It left a gaping hole at the power forward spot, and the Bulls were struggling along at .500 until Jordan came back in March of 1995. Even with MJ, the hole at PF was too much to overcome, and the Bulls lost to Orlando (with Horace Grant) in the 2nd round of the playoffs. The Rodman trade took care of that the next season, but there's no doubt the Bulls missed him terribly right after he left.

by Big D on Nov 14, 2006 4:53 PM CST up reply actions

What?

Had nothing to do with Jordan at his best? How long was his retirement after the loss of his Father? But, Big D. I couldn't agree with you more about Rodman.

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 5:06 PM CST up reply actions

That's not the point

The Bulls tried to resign Grant, and they struggled after he left. In 1993-94, they went 55-27 with him (and this was WITHOUT MJ). In 1994-95, the year after Grant left, they were 34-31 before Jordan returned in March. Regardless of whether you're still mad at the guy for leaving, you can't deny how valuable he was to that team.

by Big D on Nov 14, 2006 6:09 PM CST up reply actions

Well ....

bill cartwright was also lost to free agency in 1994, and he was more of a significant force that grant. you seem to give grant more credit than I can imagine? why?

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 6:28 PM CST up reply actions

correction ...

significant force than grant

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 6:31 PM CST up reply actions

Cartwright's elbows alone

attributed to 15 wins that previous year

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 6:33 PM CST up reply actions

Grant's

ETWR (Elbow to Win ratio) was 15.6. Whatsup now?

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Nov 14, 2006 6:56 PM CST up reply actions

No he wasn't

Cartwright was pretty much done by that point. He barely played by the 1993-94 season. Go look up his stats if he don't believe me.

As to why I give Grant credit, maybe it's because I watched the games? I would have taken Rodman over Grant too, but that doesn't mean Grant was useless.

by Big D on Nov 14, 2006 6:38 PM CST up reply actions

Bill Cartwright

Year, Age, Team, Games, MPG, PPG, EFF, AV, VI, PPFGA, PPR, RbRate
1990-91 33 CHI NBA 79 28.8 9.6 11.66 8.0 4.6 1.045 -1.28 12.6
1991-92 34 CHI NBA 64 23.0 8.0 9.13 5.6 3.9 0.994 -1.16 12.7
1992-93 35 CHI NBA 63 19.9 5.6 6.51 4.3 3.0 0.917 -0.53 10.7
1993-94 36 CHI NBA 42 18.6 5.6 7.12 3.4 3.0 1.088 -1.54 11.4

He had better rating for 1993-94 than 1992-93. His games and minutes were down, but he provided better
EFF - Efficiency*** & RbRate - Rebound Rate

Ok, Ok, Ok, ... I never said grant was useless..He rebounded well, had decent offense, he was a great shot blocker, came to camp in shape and prepared to play, a good citizen, got alone with pippen. this guy was really ok. I was not really mad he left. the magic offered him "mad" money at the time. who can blame him? Orlando was the new and upcoming team. Grant was in position to win 3 more championships, but the "dream" had other visions.. Ok.. Ok.. grant was actually a prety good NBA player, a hair shade away from an All Star. (did he make All Star team as reserve one year?)... please excuse "comparison" I retracted It.. maybe I'll should have use brad sellers.. instead

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

exault

I didn't mean to critize you, I'm just always worried when it seems like outsiders join the site, post something deragatory, get us all inflamed, and never stay.

Your comments about tyrus are presumed on 6 games expericne. For christsake, I'm a sophmore in college and hes in the NBA...WERE THE SAME AGE

furthermore, your comments based on the future of the bulls are based on something that honestly, none of us can see beyond the trade deadline. Logic says that someone has to be going and someone coming in; We don't know the knicks draft picks; there are variables out there.

So please, lay off tyrus. Kid's got a broken nose, new to the city, new to city life, and new to the nba.

by milesgmsu on Nov 14, 2006 7:44 PM CST up reply actions

milesgmsu

You're right.. Tyrus is really a great kid with an outstanding personality,exceptional basketball skills and ability. I'm sure you are also in areas where God has gifted you. Because of these traits, the only direction Tyrus, and young fellows like you are going is up when you stay the course. I might have harbored some latent resentment towards Grant back in 1994 and also the 2006 draft, but really Grant was an exceptional player and basically a young guy at the time who met the intense demands as the starting power forward on a team that won three NBA championships. This guy was really above average, just like Tyrus.

I agree, there should be no pressure on Tyrus or Thabo. They should be able to ride the bench for a few years and learn if that is best. I really didn't enjoy posey's cheap shot on ty2 or for that matter kirk during the playoffs, but young fella you will be faced with this type of treatment in the nba and life..
So prepare to tough it out...

by exult463 on Nov 14, 2006 11:26 PM CST up reply actions

Hate to pile on even more

but questioning the toughness of someone who has had a major neck injury in the past, and played in the tourney while recovering from a high ankle sprain seems a a tad too much. There isn't call for criticism of character, toughness, or whatever cliche you prefer - no matter how badly you want to rip Tyrus Thomas (really confused on that matter).

by Paxson Jackson @ Blog a Bull on Nov 15, 2006 12:27 AM CST up reply actions

yikes

...

by micah on Nov 14, 2006 4:49 PM CST reply actions

Tyrus

I would have gambled on Tyrus just like Paxson has. Not only does Tyrus have a HUGE upside, but he plays at a much faster level than most players now and once he tones it down, or should I say control it . . . Tyrus will reach his potential. He has skills now and the work ethic to turn out to be an amazing player. Not only does he have these qualities, but he was able to display them to the entire world on the biggest stage in last year's March Madness. So it's safe to say, "He even brings it when it counts."

Let's be patient with this unique athlete. And Matt mentioned it before, "And whether or not Ty2 reaches his full potential in the next couple of years doesn't mean he can't also contribute to winning. But his potential also means he can be traded for a high price, moreso than someone without it."

by Option27 on Nov 14, 2006 4:57 PM CST reply actions

Um, isn't

there a game tonight that we could be discussing?

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Nov 14, 2006 4:59 PM CST reply actions

sheesh

This is why I'm thinking of getting game thread work outsourced ;-)

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 14, 2006 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

Oh Matt

I didn't mean it as a slam at you. I just thought a change in conversation might be nice. Too much arguing in here today. Sorry if you took it as a jab at you.

Thabo....the accent is sweet!!

by sue369 on Nov 14, 2006 5:36 PM CST up reply actions

If you get it outsourced...

...check their English first.

by tofferr on Nov 14, 2006 6:37 PM CST up reply actions

correction

i noticed i wrote Tyrus plays at a much faster level than most players now...I shouldn't have used the "faster". I kinda just meant hyper, and the overused word "freakish" level. I know how Skiles has mentioned before that Tyrus looks like he's just jogging out there.